HOMEBREW Digest #1959 Wed 14 February 1996

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		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

  Re: Crystal at mashout? (Mark E. Thompson)
  biscuit malt (GREGORY KING)
  Sam Adams Finalists (Kit Anderson)
  racking hose (MJT15)
  Wort Chilling speed (Andrew Lynch)
  Protein Rests (Charlie Scandrett)
  Siphon Hose (doofus)
  Saturated Lipids (Charlie Scandrett)
  Re: Pickles and Fermentation (C.D. Pritchard)
  Newcastle's Tutankhamun Ale! ("Clark D. Ritchie")
  Revolutionary Spruce Porter ("Clark D. Ritchie")
  Mini-keg question/Corny source (Chris Kaufman)
  Re: Well Aged Brew... (Mike Taber)
  SUDS low gravity (BOBKATPOND)
  AIN Plastic / Widget Works (Re:Stout) (KMcEnhill)
  Tubing, Skimming, Computing (Kirk R Fleming)
  Re: Using dishwasher for bottling table (Michael Lausin)
  Old Thumper (Terence Tegner)
  kegging & siphon starters (C.D. Pritchard)
  Bruheat correction (Rob Lauriston)
  Edme HB digest#1958 (Liz Blades)
  Porter; Extract Technique; Silicone Caulk (KennyEddy)
  hot break solubility (Chuck and Grace Burkins)
  Re: Step mash/Lager malts (Fredrik Stahl)
  8 Gal SS Pot (Brad Anesi)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 09 Feb 1996 8:13:46 PST From: Mark E. Thompson <markt at hptal04.cup.hp.com> Subject: Re: Crystal at mashout? Full-Name: Mark E. Thompson > Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 09:00:13 -0500 > From: Bob McCowan <bob.mccowan at cfrp.varian.com> > Subject: Crystal at mashout? > > Some brewers mash all of their grains, others seem to add the specialty > grains at mashout. What difference does it make? > > Bob > > - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Bob McCowan I was wondering about this too and especially because of an old post from Russ Pencin that i found. His post: after a discussion of bulk sparging he said... "My real point here is that adding the Specialty grains during mash-out temp rise has added a whole new dimension to the flavor/aroma profile of my beers. I don't know about you, but one of the constant comments on my score sheets from competion since I went to all grain has been: 'Needs more malt, not much malt aroma". I now get that heavenly crystal aroma and that pleasing residual sweetness that I so loved from the extract brews that added "steeped crystal" liquid to the boil." He also talked about grinding the grains fine. I tried this on a batch this weekend but haven't tasted it yet. I usually steap my normally milled crystal and add it at mash out. I don't get particularly good maltyness this way. Maybe the fine grinding will help. Mark Thompson Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 09 Feb 1996 12:23:27 -0500 (EST) From: GREGORY KING <GKING at ARSERRC.Gov> Subject: biscuit malt Greetings HBDers, I am curious about a type of specialty malt called biscuit. I read a brief description of biscuit malt somewhere (maybe the Brewers Resource catalog), and gather that it is a lightly roasted malt that imparts a mild toasted or biscuity flavor (The British use the word "biscuit" like folks in the U.S. use "cracker" or "cookie"). I have yet to come across a recipe that calls for biscuit malt. Do any of you use biscuit? Is there a particular style of beer it is used in? TIA, Greg King gking at arserrc.gov Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 12:29:48 -0500 From: Kit Anderson <kit at maine.com> Subject: Sam Adams Finalists Thought some folks might be interested in this: On March 7, the GREAT LOST BEAR in Portland, Maine will be pouring seven finalists from the American Homebrewer's Association home brew competition with those recipes brewed by Sam Adams in Jamaica Plain, MA...Black Lager, IPA, Amber Ale, Porter,Smoked Brown Ale, Bock and Pilsner. Also, they will be recruiting judges for future competitions. We do not have all the details, this is what we have been told so far....Contact Mike Dickson at 772-0300 for more details. Kit Anderson Bath, Maine <kit at maine.com> The Maine Brew Page http://www.maine.com/brew Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 96 12:51:53 EST From: MJT15 at infoctr.chrysler.com Subject: racking hose Maxwell (whoever you are) Oh ye of quick wit!! Thanks for bringing a HUGE burst of laughter to my day Lurking does have it's rewards. That was funny!!!!! Mike ***JEEP/TRUCK-RWD TRANSMISSION-CHRYSLER *** * Michael Tomaszewski (313) 956-1660 * * BEER IS LIFE'S BLOOD - M.T. Zymurgist * ******************************************* Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 10:09:03 -0800 From: Andrew Lynch <lynch at Synopsys.COM> Subject: Wort Chilling speed I have read a couple of posts claiming 45 minute times for immersion chillers to work. I have found that if you keep the wort moving around the chiller, the time and water use are cut dramatically. I sit in a chair and read a book while I jiggle the kettle with my foot. It does not need to move much, just a little to make a big difference. I have (if I remember correctly) a 25' immersion chiller that I use to chill 12-14 gallons of boiling wort. In the winter (see note below) it takes 15 minutes. This is a shorter time than it takes to flow all that beer through my 3/8" diameter 15' long CF chiller. In the winter, I use an immersion chiller alone because my tap water is cold enough to chill efficiently. In the summer, I use the immersion chiller to drop the temperature to 150F or less, then use a CF chiller to drop to the target temperature. The tap water temperature is just too high in the summer for the immersion chiller to work well below about 150F. I feel that a quick reduction in temperature of the total volume of wort helps preserve the aroma and flavor from the finishing hops. Thanks to a tip from an unknown HBD'er, I run the waste water into our washing machine. -Drew - -- Andrew T. Lynch Synopsys Inc. (415)528-4960 Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 01:49:01 +1100 From: merino at cynergy.com.au (Charlie Scandrett) Subject: Protein Rests Denis Basarlo writes, DB> Under which conditions would I want to use a 40C-60C-70C mash DB>schedule? Is this for a specific style of beer, or for less-modified grain DB>bills? How would you recommend I step the mash up from 40C to 60C? More DB>water? And Frederick Stahl replies, FS>I think you have gotten something wrong here. The idea is to use two rests FS>at 60C and 70C to control fermentability. For a less modified malt (i.e. FS>pilsener or lager malt) you need to use a protein rest at 50C because of FS>the high protein content. On the other hand, well modified malt has a much FS>lower protein content and you don't want the protein level to be too low, FS>or you would get a poor head. So George Fix idea is to do a low-temp rest FS>at _40C_ instead of 50C for well modified malt, keeping the transition time FS>from 40C to 60C under 15 mins. The gain of a low temperature rest is mainly FS>better gelatinization and dissolvability, resulting in higher extraction. FS>To repeat George Fix mash scedules: FS>Lager malt (low modification): 50-60-70C FS>Pale malt (high modification): 40-60-70C The reason I started working on the upcoming Protein FAQ was that I was this confused, and the reason I'm taking weeks to do it is that protein is that confusing. Now I agree the two rests at 60C & 70C are to control fermentability, *and* to modify protein. The rest at 40C or slightly below *is* for better gelatinization and dissolvability, it also releases more enzymes which are proteins BTW. BUT, There are two main *groups* of proteolytic (breaking down protein) enzymes that survive malt kilning into the mash. The Peptidases break down medium and low molecular weight peptides into amino acids and smaller peptides at an optimum temperature range of 45C to 50C. They also accelerate the hydrolysing of previously insoluble proteins. G. Fix, I believe, proposed his mash schedule to minimise the continued formation of amino acids (FAN levels) because, in well modified malts they are already enough for yeast nutrition. In excess they can tempt bacterial infection and can cause off fermentation flavours. A well modified malt has a *higher* protein concentration in the mash, not lower. He also probably doesn't want to promote further *enzymic* solublising of proteins which occurs at this temperature. The other group, the Proteases (Proteinases) break down the poorly soluble high molecular weight proteins into medium weight peptides. This is very necessary for the prevention of haze. The optimum range for them is 50-60C, but all enzymes work well below their optimum range, but not above it. Because the Proteases are unstable at 60C and easily denatured, I would suggest lowering G. Fix's 60C rest to 58C to ensure adequate breakdown of the small High Molecular Weight Protein fraction. The HWMP's are present in all worts and dissolve largely as a function of time, so they need some breakdown to reduce one of the principal reagents of haze. Malts with low modification, usually lager malts, have less dissolved protein and more importantly, less simple peptides and amino acids. The 50C rest is to ensure adequate yeast nutrition by forming these. However there are much fewer proteolytic enzymes after kilning to break down the protein matrix that holds the starch granules, so decoction (seperate boiling) was/is often used with this malt to denature this protein. There are *lower* levels of disolved nitrogen resulting from less modified malts. BTW, well modified malts, infusion mashed, produce 3 to 5 times the medium molecular weight proteins for a decent head. The causes of poor head in such beers are probably not protein, but pH or lipids. Protein rests don't remove protein, they change the overall profile and levels of different proteinous structures. Non-enzymic solublising of malt-modified protein continues throughout the mash, principally between 30C and 65C. It has a peak rate at about 58C to 60C, but it continues pretty rapidly anyway. Overnight mashes will have much higher protein levels than a mash of a few hours. It should be very noticible in the mouth feel. I won't apologise for the bandwidth, I'm going to use a lot more when I post the FAQ. I'll answer Kit Anderson's interesting question on hot & cold break composition toomorrow. Charlie (Brisbane, Australia) Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 09 Feb 1996 13:55:53 -0700 From: adavis at pomona.edu (doofus) Subject: Siphon Hose In HBD 1955 (and a fine year I might add) Ronald LaBorde wrote: >>For a long time I stored my racking hose after shaking it dry. But >>it was really not dry. No matter what I did, there were always drops of >>water still there. I thought they would evaporate but days would go by >>and the water was still there. So I must admit I was --- er, oh well, -- >>WORRIED. Sorry, but the truth hurts. I thought that if days went by that >>some infection would somehow appear. maxwell at prisminfo.com wrote in response: >Well, I always recommend that you shake your hose before putting it away. >If you want to be extra careful, you can take some tissue and dab the end >to wick away the moisture. Just don't let anyone else see you, it could be >rather embarrasing. Both methods should work nicely. Don't forget to wash >your hands, as sanitation is important. If your hose is wet for several >days, I suppose infection is possible. Frankly, I'd be more worried about >what people would say when they saw the wet spots. I find it helps to run rubbing alcohol (isopropyl) through the siphon hose when you're done with it- this leaves no water spots, and evaporates more quickly. If you do so, just make sure to wash it thoroughly before your next use. -Adam Davis "In the future, women will have breasts all over. In the future, it will be a relief to find a place without culture. In the future, plates of food will have names and titles. In the future, we will all drive standing up. In the future, love will be taught on television and by listening to pop songs." -David Byrne Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 02:17:15 +1100 From: merino at cynergy.com.au (Charlie Scandrett) Subject: Saturated Lipids I wrote, >I have found clear references in "Brewing" by Lewis and Young that aeration >is very necessary for the assimilation of *saturated* fatty acids. From >other references in Malting and Brewing Science I wouldn't want anything but >traces of those left in the beer. And Tracy Aquilla repilied, TA>While this may be true, saturated FAs aren't really a big concern in the TA>nutrient department. Yes. TA> Yeast can easily synthesize the required saturated FAs TA>and they don't need oxygen to do it. UNsaturated FAs and sterols, OTOH, must TA>either be provided in the medium or synthesized using free oxygen. IF the TA>yeast has been handled properly and at least some of the cold break is left TA>in the fermenter, I believe wort aeration is generally unnecessary (for TA>relatively low gravity beers). In fact, as you've pointed out, you really TA>don't want saturated FAs in the finished beer, so it's preferable to TA>minimize their presence in wort. This is one of the main reasons trub TA>removal is considered to be so important. It can decrease beer stability by TA>contributing to staling reactions. CS>yeast, like us, are basically lazy and use unsaturated lipids first. If they CS>can't assimilate enough unsaturated fatty acids and sterols, they sythesise CS>them with O2 from saturated ones. Cold break is another source of lipids (in CS>colloidal suspension), I agree here, but... CS>without it *in a wort with low soluble lipids* (very CS>important) yeast needs to use lots of O2 to assimilate saturated lipids to ^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >synthesise unsaturated ones and sterols for cell building. TA> ...are you sure about this part? As I read "Brewing"? TA>Yeast can synthesize saturated fatty acids TA>in an anaerobic environment, as long as energy (sugar) is available. If the TA>saturated FAs are available in the wort, the yeast will utilize them (just TA>as occurs with O2), but they generally aren't required in the medium. [Or am TA>I missing something here?](one of us probably is?) What I failed to communicate is that I *want* yeast to use the saturated acids to synthesise unsaturated ones and staerols. The reason is that head retention is so bloody sensitive to saturated lipid levels. (0.5 ppm) They *won't* consume them is there are lot of unsaturated FA's and sterols about, and they *can't* consume them without O2. Aeration may not be necessary for fermentation, but it is very useful for beer. What confuses the issue is that yeast produce and don't need *some* saturated and unsaturated FA's and excrete them. However the greatest source of saturated lipids is the mash itself. I reiterate; 1/If soluble lipids are LOW, good O2 *and* there is cold break present, yeast have to use the saturated FA's from solution and cold break, and we can remove the rest of the break. 2/If soluble lipids are HIGH, good O2, *and* there is not cold break present, yeast use up the saturated FA's in solution as well, hopefully to below critical levels. 3/If they are high *and* there is cold break, yeast use the unsaturated FA's in solution and break and leave the saturated ones too high for head and staling. 4/ If there is inadequate O2, yeast have no choice but to ignore the saturated FA's as a source of synthesising unsaturated ones. I would prefer 1/, then 2/, not 3/ or 4/, if I want a good head. Sound reasonable? Charlie (Brisbane, Australia) Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 96 18:41 EST From: cdp at chattanooga.net (C.D. Pritchard) Subject: Re: Pickles and Fermentation saunderm at vt.edu (J. Matthew Saunders) posted re. pickle pails: >2) You want to keep wort (beer) >and must (wine) away from vinegar... Those beasties will happily turn a >lovely batch of Bitter or Stout into vinegar rather than yummy home-brew.... >Can a pail that held vinegar be trusted? I'd have no qualms about using one as a primary fermenter as long as the vingear smell was disipated. I make vinegar as well as wine and beer and I've read repeatly that most vinegar is pasturized. The only exceptions are the unpasturized vinegars sold in a few health food stores and homebrewed vinegar. I tried culturing some of the former stuff without success, so, even the bacteria in it is not too healthy. I would strongly suspect that commercial pickles are made with pasturized vinegar. Anyhow, aren't most (if not all) commercial pickles heat-processed like home canned pickles? I doubt pickle buyers would be too pleased about finding a mother of vinegar or vinegar eels growing amoungst their pickles. Anyway I wouldn't worry about an infection since: 1) If the plastic pail isn't scratched too much (or so it's said...), your sanitization process should take care of any acetobacter bacteria. If your sanitization isn't up to par, there are many other microbes which are more likely to infect your brew than acetobacter. 2) Acetobacter bacteria require alot of O2 to do their thing and O2 is something we try to keep out of our fermented brews. 3) (of lessor importance for the subject at hand) vinegar production falls off dramatically at temps. lower than 60 degF and, based on my smell, taste and acid tests, appreciable vinegar isn't produced for about a month from wine. BTW, there's 3 qts. or so of tomato wine "open fermenting" in the spare bath where I clean and store my brewing gear. None of my beers have turned into malt vinegar or had any vinegar characteristics. C.D. Pritchard cdp at chattanooga.net Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 09 Feb 1996 15:38:49 -0800 From: "Clark D. Ritchie" <ritchie at ups.edu> Subject: Newcastle's Tutankhamun Ale! Has anyone (namely any Europeans out there) else heard about the following? I read this in yesterday morning's newspaper (The Seattle Post-Intelligencer, 2/8/95, page A2). "Britain: Egyptologist Barry Kemp, a team of scientists and Newcastle Breweries plan to brew an ale from a recipe dating back 3,500 years to the time of Tutankhamun. Tutankhamun Ale will be based on sediment from old jars found in a brewery housed inside the Sun Temple of Nefertiti, queen of a pharoah called Akhenaten who Eqyptologists believe was probably Tutankhamun's father." FYI... CDR Clark D. Ritchie, ritchie at ups.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 09 Feb 1996 15:38:52 -0800 From: "Clark D. Ritchie" <ritchie at ups.edu> Subject: Revolutionary Spruce Porter I recently made the Revolutionary Spruce Porter found on page 65 of the November/December issue of "Brewing Techniques". Has anyone else made this recipe? The recipe (see below) calls for 0.25 lb of Spruce needles (pestle broken or spruce gum), however the instructions fail to specify exactly how the needles are to be used. I emailed Brewing Techniques magazine but they ignored my inquiry. Does anyone have advice on how to brew with spruce? I didn't want to use them in the secondary (dry spruce?) because I wasn't sure about sterilization. Also, I wasn't sure if I should use them during the boil (should they be boiled for 60 minutes or only 15?) or during the mash (how long and at what temperature)? I ended up using a spruce extract (that was VERY potent) and deviating from the recipe a bit. Anyhow, my porter came out excellent (very sprucy) and I will surely try this one again, however next time I'd like to use real spruce. TIA... CDR Revolutionary Spruce Porter For 5 gallons: 10.0 lb Two-row or six-row malt 1.00 lb Crystal 60 0.50 lb Crystal 120 0.50 lb CaraMunich 0.25 lb Chocolate Malt 0.25 lb Biscuit Malt 0.25 lb Victory (or homemade toasted malt) 0.25 lb Roasted barley 2.00 oz Black patent 1.00 oz Special B 0.75 lb Molasses 0.50 oz Bullion, Cluster or Chinook hops (boil) 0.25 oz Cascade, Willamette or Northern Brewer hops (flavor) 0.25 lb Spruce needles (pestle broken or spruce gum) 1.00 tsp Chalk Dough malt into 122F (50C) water and maintain for 20 minutes. Raise temperature to 156F (69C) for 40 minutes. Mash out at 168F (76C). Sparge with 170F (77C) water. Add chalk and molasses to kettle. Boil for 60 minutes. Add boiling hops at the onset of the boil and flavoring hops 15 minutes into the boil. Clark D. Ritchie, ritchie at ups.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 18:23:33 -0600 (CST) From: Chris Kaufman <kaufman at biosci.cbs.umn.edu> Subject: Mini-keg question/Corny source Greetings all, I've been lurking for some time now and have learned many, many things that have made my brewday much easier and relaxed. Thanks! So I finally have a question that has brought me out of lurk mode. My friend is quite partial to buying beer in those 5L minikegs, so at his last party I snagged one with the hopes of somehow using it for homebrewing. (I'm sure most of you are afflicted with a similar syndrome, everything I see somehow can be used for homebrewing :> ). Anyway, this keg was dispensed with the gravity tap, which means it had a small hole punched near the bottom rim (if the bung is the top) to allow for air displacement. Now my question is, is there anyway I can plug that hole so that the keg will maintain pressure? I've thought about a short sheet metal screw, but don't know if this would be a good idea. Maybe with a rubber grommet? So what do you all think? Is it repairable or do I have a fancy flower pot? If it is not repairable, what should I do different next time we go to tap one of these? (besides not punching the hole =^> ). So my plan for this is to somehow force carbonate homebrew in it from my CO2 cannister. I'm pretty sure I saw plans for this in a past digest, but the searcher is currently down. Anyone else remember this? - -------------------- Well, since I seem to have asked more than one question, I thought I'd pass along a good, cheap source of used 5 gallon corny kegs. When I was in Phoenix on vacation, I stumbled across this guy's store that sells complete kegging setups from $100 to $120. (insert standard disclaimer... only a satisfied customer who wishes he had financial interest) Beer & WIne Home Brewing Supplies Mark Shea 602-275-0259 1805 N. 24th St Phoenix, AZ 85008 If I remember correctly, the kegs (used ball lock cornelious) were $14, single guage, new in box regulator was $25 (or $35?, don't have the receipt in front of me), used CO2 cannister ~$45, and the rest for hoses and QDs.(some assembly required) I know the keg price is right, but don't quote me on the guage and tank. I can look up the prices if you want. The best thing about this guy is if you want, say, 1000 kegs, he can send you 1000 kegs (no kidding). Thanks again, Chris \=// Chris Kaufman Owner, operator and chief drunkard //=\ University of Minnesota of the Chaosgen Brewing Company(tm) \=// Genetics and Cell Biology "Mutators of fine animals //=\ kaufman at biosci.cbs.umn.edu and brewers of great beers" \=// Phone #: 612-624-4206 //=\ Fax #: 612-625-5754 Currently on tap: 'FatBoy Xtra Stout' Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 16:36:58 -0800 From: Mike_Taber at broder.com (Mike Taber) Subject: Re: Well Aged Brew... Well, we poped open one of the 10 year old bottles.... Had good carbonation. Smelled fine too. Clarity was good. Taste -- A bit sour, but not too bad... Finished a bit like dry paper. By the taste, I'd say this was a lager or a pils. Not my favorite beer, but not as bad as I expected. Thanks for all your comments. Mike Taber Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 20:19:45 -0500 From: BOBKATPOND at aol.com Subject: SUDS low gravity >On Tuesday evening 2/6/96, I started brewing a Belgian strong >ale. I formulated the recipe using SUDS for Windows but ended up >with a starting gravity of 1.072 at 50 degrees F., instead of >something near the SUDS-calculated 1.095. WHY?? >Starting gravity: 1.072 >Ending Gravity: 1.024 >Recipe Makes: 5.0 gallons >Total Grain: 12.56 lb. >Color (srm): 32.4 >Efficiency: 75% >Hop IBUs: 40.7 >Malts/Sugars: >3.75 lb. Light Malt Extract Syrup (Coopers) >3.75 lb. Amber Malt Extract Syrup (Coopers) >3.00 lb. Light Dry Malt Extract (M&F) >1.00 lb. Dark Brown Sugar (Domino) >1.00 lb. Crystal Malt 40L >1.00 oz. Black Patent Malt There are a couple of problems I can see here: the program says 75% efficiency, which doesn't make any sense for an extract recipe, so it thinks you are doing an all grain. Also it is counting the crystal and black malts in the grain bill but they do not contribute any fermentable sugar. In Charlie's book he states you should get .004-.006 increase in gravity per pound of extract or corn sugar in 5 gallons of water. You have 7.5# liquid extract plus 1# "corn" sugar plus 3# DME for a total of 11.5# times .006 gives you 1.069 which is in the ballpark of what you got.You should get a little more from the DME than the liquid extract. So 1.072 is not a surprise. You need to dump in 4# more light extract to get up in the 1.095 range. Call me when it's done, I'd like to try some! Bob Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 20:54:18 -0500 From: KMcEnhill at aol.com Subject: AIN Plastic / Widget Works (Re:Stout) - --PART.BOUNDARY.0.8468.mail02.mail.aol.com.823917125 Content-ID: <0_8468_823917125 at mail02.mail.aol.com.178912> Content-type: text/plain - --PART.BOUNDARY.0.8468.mail02.mail.aol.com.823917125 Content-ID: <0_8468_823917125 at mail02.mail.aol.com.178913> Content-type: text/plain; name="HBD Responce" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >Date: Wed, 07 Feb 1996 09:44:28 -0500 = >From: Spencer W Thomas<spencer at engin.umich.edu> = >Subject: Re: high temp hoses = > = >I faced this problem a couple of years ago, when I used a new vinyl = >hose on the "hotside" of my new CF chiller. The beer tasted like = >plastic & I had to dump it. I then initiated a search for food-grade, = >high-temperature tubing. What I found was silicone tubing. This =0D <snip> =0D >The tubing I bought was made by Norton Plastics (famous for their >Tygon brand tubing), and I bought it through AIN. I've since lost the >data sheet and phone numbers for AIN, but any well-equipped lab should >have their catalog. I had to buy it in 50-ft increments. Fisher & =0D Well, I happen to have the Southfield,MI office info. =0D AIN Plastic 221150 West Eight Mile Southfield, MI 48037 Phone: 810-356-4000 Fax: 810-356-4745 =0D They have a main office somewhere but I don't have that info. =0D ####################################################################### =0D >Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 10:14:25 -0500 = >From: Simonzip at aol.com = >Subject:Stout = > = >So last night I enjoyed my first taste of Murphy's Irish Stout from the = 16 = >oz. 'Drought Style" can. Ummmmmmm creamy.........Just as any other mania= c =0D <snip> =0D >Anyone know the physics of this beautiful phenomena. And, why does it sa= y on = >the can that if it isn't refrigerated for at least 2 hours it could gush= , = >over-foam. And, is there any carbonation in that beer from CO2, or is it= all = >nitrogen. I could not detect any of the carbonation I am used to. I will= = >enjoy many more of these this evening whilst I contemplate the curiositi= es. =0D The Widget has a small hole in it all the time, that is why you don't see any signs of rupture. When the can is closed, the pressure inside the Widget is the same as the pressure outside the Widget, therefore you get no flow. But, when a fine stout enthusest opens the can, there is a pressure differential, and the gas flows out. = =0D As for chilling before you open it, that is a gas law and gas solubility question. If the temperature is high, the pressure in the can (and Widget) is high. The solubility of the gas into the beer decreases at the same time. When you combine the two effects, you get large quantities of gas coming out of the Widget and most of it going out the top. Now cool the can down. The pressure in the can (and Widget) is lower and the solubility of the beer increases. So, when you pop the top, not as much gas leaves the Widget and most of what does, goes into solution. =0D If you don't understand what I'm talking about (I couldn't explain snow to and eskimo), lets take it over AOL (chat, email, smoke signals, beating drums, ...) =0D Kevin McEnhill KMcEnhill at aol.com Dreamer of Dragon's Head Brewery - --PART.BOUNDARY.0.8468.mail02.mail.aol.com.823917125-- Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 09 Feb 1996 22:19:26 +0000 From: Kirk R Fleming <flemingk at usa.net> Subject: Tubing, Skimming, Computing In #1955 Bill Pemberton asked about hose for brewing. I know I post this from time to time, I hope folks don't mind... I'm a big fan of braided silicone hose, although the smallest I've found so far is 5/8" ID (which fits over 1/2" copper tubing perfectly). There are a number of sources--I've used a place call Pure-Fit. I don't have my catalogs apparently, but if you look in the Thomas Register at your library or place of employment, there are hundreds of tubing folks who handle both braided silicone and nitrile-lined food grade high temp hose. About $4-$9 per foot for 1/2" to 5/8" ID stuff. In #1956 Mike (d2dtinfo at inlink.com) asked about frequency of skimming in an open fermenter, and if he's losing bitterness by skimming too often. Here's my opinion: there really isn't any reason to skim. First, it's the krauesen layer on the surface of the beer that's helping to protect it from airborne bacteria and oxygen. The more frequently you skim the greater the chance of disturbing this layer and exposing the wort. Also, the more often you skim the greater the liklihood of accidentally dropping some of the floating resin onto the wort surface, which I think is not good. OTOH, if you can skim in a way that removes JUST the resins that are floating on the top of the foam, then they won't be there to fall back into the beer. What I asked here long ago and got no reply on what the question: how soluble are these resins? I assumed at first they must be insoluble else they wouldn't be washed to the surface. But if you allow the krauesen to drop and the resins to fall into the beer, it seems to disappear--I think it does precipitate. Are you loosing bitterness? I really don't think so. In #1957 Eric Larson mentioned that Suds consistently predicts higher OGs than he gets when brewing. Here is a POSSIBLE explanation for the example he shows: You showed 3.75 lb for each of the Coopers extract syrups--I've not used Coopers before, but most canned syrups come in 3.3 lb cans. IF you made this error, then the Suds-predicted OG would be 89, not 95. In any case, here's how I calculate what you really did: You produced 5 gal of wort at 72, using 4 gal of wort at some unknown gravity G, 1 quart at gravity 40, and 3 quarts at gravity 1.000. First, I remove the 3 quarts of water from the 5 gallons of final product: 5*72 = 4.25*x yielding x = 84.7 This means that after adding your starter to your 4 gal of wort it had a gravity of 85. Now remove the starter: 4.25*85 = 4*G yielding G = 90 Meaning you produced 4 gal of wort with OG = 1.090. If indeed you used 3.3 lb cans, then you hit the Suds predicted gravity of 89 dead-on. If you really did use 3.75 lb cans of syrup, then your OG was a bit short, but *not as bad as you think*...your "error" can be due to a final volume mismeasurement of just .3 gal. IOW, if you topped off to 5.3 gallons, not 5, then your original 4 gallons produced was exactly at the gravity Suds predicted! Remember, you did almost a 20% dilution of your wort with pure water. Again I stress--most of us don't have the gear to measure large volumes very well. Fill your carboy 1/4 full of water--put the carboy on a level surface, let the water settle completely, mark the level with a felt tip pen, then add 1 quart of water and note the level change. That piddly quart is the difference between OG = 1.090 and 1.095 in this example. And besides, what are you doing making a beer that big anyway? :-) KRF Colorado Springs Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 22:48:08 -0700 (MST) From: mel0083 at mcdata.com (Michael Lausin) Subject: Re: Using dishwasher for bottling table > This tip work so well that I would like to repost it. > A long while ago someone suggested on the 'gest using the open door of a > dishwasher as a bottling table. > No worry spills, no sticky floors, easy as pie cleanup, awesome! > > Thanks again, > Ben > Neat idea, I'm definitly gonna give it a try next time I bottle. I'd suggest adding some kind of support under the door though. It doesn't take much pressure to get the door out of alignment, and then ya get leaks when you wash the dishes. Just my 2 cents worth... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Michael Lausin McDATA Corp. Broomfield, Co 303-460-4107 michael at mcdata.com http://www.mcdata.com/~mel0083 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The opinions expressed are mine, 'cause I'm the one pushing the keys! Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 10:56:01 +-200 From: Terence Tegner <brewtec at global.co.za> Subject: Old Thumper Hi from Terence in South Africa, I've been off the air for a few months and have now got a new = address/service provider. I trust I was not missed. A few HBDs ago there was some discussion about the award winning 1988 = Old Thumper from Ringwood brewery in UK. I had the privelege of being = trained by Peter Austin himself when he was out here many years ago. = This is not the main reason for this posting. The brewer of the 1988 = Old Thumper that won the Supreme Champion Beer of Britian was Nigel Gray = who has settled in South Africa and is head brewer at Firkin Brewpubs in = SA. He is also a personal freind and I will approach him for the = original recipe in the near future. This will be the subject of a future posting. Regards to all Terence Tegner Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 96 11:37 EST From: cdp at chattanooga.net (C.D. Pritchard) Subject: kegging & siphon starters bob at carol.net (Robert Rogers) proposed a frugal kegging system based on some sorta drug paraphernalia in 1956. I'd advise caution since the pressure of those CO2 pellet pistol type cartridges could be higher than that of the laughing gas cartridges. Maybe enough to blow up the whippet thing... The J.C. Whitney automotive catalog shows a tire inflator that uses those small CO2 cartridges. It's about $14 and appears to have a thumb wheel for regulating the pressure. I'd trust it more than something cobbled together from some sort of drug paraphernalia *but* (at least for initial tests) I'd still want a pressure relief valve and pressure gauge downstream to avoid blowing up kegs. As has been suggested repeatly here in the HBD, a tire air stem makes a good, cheap gas-in fitting. Blowing up a minikeg made from a PET soda bottle will be messy and could perhaps result in cuts or eye injuries- blowing up a metal keg could be downright deadly. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Someone asked about starting siphons. I've been using one of those black rubber bulb affairs which are intended for priming outboard boat motors. It has check valves on each end so priming racking tubing is usually as simple as sqeezing on the bulb. If the static lift is too much (e.g. a partially filled carboy), you have to squeeze the tubing on the discharge side of the bulb thing shut while you let the squeezed bulb suck on the brew. I wouldn't use the thing for hot wort tho'. You'll want to buy a new one (about $5 or so) and do 2 or 3 hot water soaks to remove the residual rubber odor. I replaced the fixed clamps on the end of the thing with conviential hose clamps so disassembly for sanitiztion is easy. I usually don't bother with disassembly and just sanitize it while it's attached to with the racking tubing (makes filling the racking setup with sanitization fluid a snap too). C.D. Pritchard cdp at chattanooga.net Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 96 10:05 PST From: robtrish at mindlink.bc.ca (Rob Lauriston) Subject: Bruheat correction I recently reported that my electric boiler was not satisfactory. That was _not_ a Bruheat, but rather an Electrim bin. Apologies for detracting from the Bruheat product. I seems that power is what you need -- a Bruheat has it, a 110v Electrim doesn't. Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 96 17:50:55 GMT From: blades at airtime.co.uk (Liz Blades) Subject: Edme HB digest#1958 Hi, In hd#1958 Rocky johnson complained about lack of service in his local store,if I was him I'd find another store. I know of one distributer of Edme in the US. DLB Vinyards Inc 30311 Clemens Drive Westlake OH 44145 phone# 216 899 1325 Owners Don and Nancy Bower. You could also email Edme Send to James Hibbins edme at pipex.com or visit their web site at http://www.lp7.co.uk/edme/ The usual disclaimers apply Cheers Liz Blades Liz Blades Proprietor of Blades Home Brewery http://www.dmatters.co.uk/Blades/blades.html Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 13:13:11 -0500 From: KennyEddy at aol.com Subject: Porter; Extract Technique; Silicone Caulk Gabrielle Palmer asks for a porter recipe, and Peter Naus asks for advice on improving his extract technique. Thought I could answer both questions with one recipe. First, Peter, there isn't much terribly wrong with your basic technique -- I think you're on the right track. Two things I might do differently: (1) chill your wort first (cracked carboys are more common than you might think, and the benefits of chilling are well-documented) and (2) remove your grains well before boiling. Above 175 or so excess starches and other nasties can dissolve intot he wort, leading to off-flavors and starch haze. Better to turn off the heat at about 155F, and let it "rest" 30 minutes, then remove (using a nylon grain bag makes this simple). Others will suggest making a yeast starter; excellent advice but sometimes a little much work for a newbie; dumping the small amount of slurry from the samck-pack is OK. But give it a shot. One other thing that's VERY important -- maintain your (ale) fermentation temperature at no more than about 70F, and at least 60F for decent fermentation activity. Off-flavors increase rapidly above this point. Finally, I think the best advice for the extract brewer is to use only pale extract; obtain your color and flavor from grains. If you think about it, this is what you're doing with all-grain brewing -- the bulk of the grain bill is pale malt! Use the best quality pale extract you can find/afford, steep your grains carefully, and you might be hard-pressed to tellit's an extract beer at all!. OK, onto porter recipes. Following is "Doc Porter", a pale-extract-based recipe. Hopping with the Sam Adams hops was kindof a whim; although the Hallertauer hops are often used in English beers, a real "English" hop like Golings or Fuggles might be a better choice; this beer came out pretty nice however: Doc Porter 6 lb pale DME (7 lb liquid extract) 1/2-lb 40L crystal 1/2-lb Chocolate 1/4-lb Black Patent 3 oz Sam Adams Hallertau Mittelfruh hops or other hops to achieve about 30 IBU Wyeast Irish Ale liquid yeast Add grains (in a grain bag) to cold brewing water; heat to 155; rest 30 min, remove grains. Bring to boil, turn off heat; add extract; regain boil; add hops; boil 45 min; add 1 tsp Irish Moss; boil 15 min; chill; rack; pitch; ferment; drink; smile. There are no finishing hops here but the hop character comes through the grains just about right. Bob Rogers sez: > so, does anyone know if silicon caulk will > cause flavors, or is there something else i can use? I found a silicone ADHESIVE (not caulk) at Builder's Square which said "safe for incidental food contact". Now, silicone is good to 400 or more deg F, and its flexibility and moldability make it a good choice for selaing, but whether "incidental contact" means boiling wort with it isn't clear. Sorry; don't have the particular brand in from of me, but scout through the adhesives rack and you'll find it. Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 13:35:01 +0001 (EST) From: Chuck and Grace Burkins <burkins at world.std.com> Subject: hot break solubility In HBD 1958 Kit Anderson wrote: >No. No. After boiling, I put the wort chiller in the kettle. Hot and cold >break are in the bottom of the kettle. What I want to know is, as the wort >cools, does the hot break dissolve back into the wort? Some people separate >the wort from the hot break before cooling. If I'm correct and the hot break is essentially proteins denaturing, precipitating and dropping out of solution, you'll have to get alot more extreme than just cooling the wort to get them to become soluble. Something like 8M urea would do nicely. In any case I wouldn't worry about the break redissolving to any great extent. This is based on my experience with proteins, not beer, so if someone sees that I'm wrong, please correct me. Chuck Burkins protein chemist, homebrewer Dedham, MA burkins at world.std.com Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 22:43:39 +0100 From: fredriks at abel.math.umu.se (Fredrik Stahl) Subject: Re: Step mash/Lager malts Jim Busch writes: >Can someone refer me to a lager malt that is low in modification and >if possible what is the Kolbach index? A quotation from a post by George Fix in HBD 22 Jul 94: >Terms like "overmodification" and "undermodification" are vague and >potentially misleading. A large number of numerical indices have been >proposed for malt modification, but the two most widely cited are >Friability and the Kolbach Index. > >Friability is an easy one, and can be determined by chewing on the grain. >A highly modified malt will chew like a marshmallow, while at the other >extreme raw barley will have the texture of a ball bearing. The Kolbach >Index strongly correlates with this, and is the % wort nitrogen to malt >nitrogen (as measured in a laboratory mash). The following are normally >used as guidelines: > > undermodified <35% > moderate modification 35-37% > highly modifiied >40% > >With this criteria the malt used at Pilsen (at least as of 1990) is >undermodified, the Pils malts available here (DeWolf-Cosyns, Durst, >and Irek) are moderately modified, while most UK and UK malts are >highly modified. > >I personally feel that a protein rest should be used with the Pils malts, >provided that the total time spent under 40C (140F) does not exceed 30-40 >mins. In particular, I have found that lager beer made from the DeWolf- >Cosyns Pils malt and a single temperature mash will tend to be thin and >insipid compared to one made from a multiple temperature mash. This is taken from a collection of some posts of George Fix on modification which can be found on Spencer's Beer Page: http://www-personal.umich.edu/~spencer/beer/FAQ/Fix-mash.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------- =46redrik St=E5hl Tel: int + 90 166027 Math. Dept., Ume=E5 University Fax: int + 90 165222 S-90187 Ume=E5, SWEDEN E-mail: fredriks at abel.math.umu.se *** Nemo saltat sobrius, nisi forte insanit *** - ------------------------------------------------------------------- Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 13:48:28 -0800 From: BANESI at novell.com (Brad Anesi) Subject: 8 Gal SS Pot Is anyone out there aware of a source for an 8 gal Stainless Brew Pot? ...at something less than $100. It amazes me that I can pick up a 5 gal SS pot w/lid for $20, but I need a mortgage for something 3 gallons larger. Any help is appreciated. Brad (Banesi at Novell.com) Return to table of contents