HOMEBREW Digest #1964 Tue 20 February 1996
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FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Celis ("Dr. John Pratte")
Accidentally Frozen Wyeast (Scott Bukofsky)
CaCl2 ppm levels (Mark)
RTP Czech Pils Yeast (Russ Brodeur)
Understading yield. ("Kelly C. Heflin")
Starters (Pierre Jelenc)
Attenuation Problem ("Mike Bell")
Cheap 8 1/2 gal. Brewpot (Chris Carolan )
RE: Questions about lagers (Larry N. Lowe)
Re: Celis (Douglas R. Jones)
Re: New Wyeast strains ... (Tom Fitzpatrick)
DOH, Stupid Human Tricks ("MacRae Kevin J")
Beer and Color (Derek Lyons)
New Neighbor (Tim Martin)
Please Remove My Name From the Mailing List (SStokes100)
pressurizing (Jerry Lee)
extraction efficency (Jerry Lee)
bottle washing/fast fermentation (Nigel Townsend)
Re: Force carbonate with N2/CO2 mix? (Jack Stafford)
Black Butte Porter Clone? (GuyPurdy)
HSA/chilling and break/Scottish Ale/Papazian improvements/Lactose/Grain bed depth/Ancient brew (Algis R Korzonas)
soft water/Grand Cru/Irish Moss rehydration (Algis R Korzonas)
Brewing Waste and Septic Systems (Tony McCauley)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 08:02:01 EST
From: "Dr. John Pratte" <PRATTE at GG.csc.peachnet.edu>
Subject: Celis
In HBD #1963, Tracy Aquilla asks what is the deal with Celis
distribution. During the Christmas break, my wife, brother, and I
got the chance to tour the Celis brewery in Austin. After the tour,
we were sampling their brew when Pierre himself walked over and began
to talk to us (There were only 6 people on the tour.). He told us
several interesting things.
1) He did not "sell out" to Miller; they have a distribution
agreement that gave Pierre the much needed money for a planned
expansion. In fact, Miller wants nothing to do with the brewing
process. They have never even mentioned his recipe.
2) Distribution is currently limited to the six states where the beer
has sold well. There are plans to expand this in the future, but
this will take some time.
3) Celis will be coming out with a new beer soon. The plan is for a
Trappist Ale to be coming out sometime this spring or summer.
All in all, Pierre is extremely nice. He talked to us for about 1
1/2 hour before leaving.
John
________________________________________________________________
Dr. John M. Pratte pratte at gg.csc.peachnet.edu
Clayton State College Office (770)961-3674
Morrow, GA 30260 Fax (770)961-3700
http://www.csc.peachnet.edu/Schools/AS/NatSci/pratte/jmp1.html
________________________________________________________________
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 08:14:59 -0500 (EST)
From: Scott Bukofsky <scott.bukofsky at yale.edu>
Subject: Accidentally Frozen Wyeast
Returning home from visiting my parents in New Jersey, I stuck a packet
of Wyeast in a bag with some frozen food, thinkning it would stay cold
this way. To my dismay, when I got home 2 hours later, the packet was
frozen into slush. Is there any way the yeast survived, or should I buy
another packet to be on the safe side? Has anyone else had experience
with frozen Wyeast?
Thanks,
Scott
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 08:49:27 -0500 (EST)
From: Mark <multis at fyiowa.infi.net>
Subject: CaCl2 ppm levels
Wolfgang L. Wedel wrote:
How much does one gram (ounce) rise the ppm levels of Ca and Cl in my
water?
One gram of CaCl2 in five gallons of water = 19 ppm Ca and 34 ppm Cl
Calcium is 36% by weight of CaCl2. 1000 mg X 0.36 divided by 18.9 liters (5
gallons) gives 19 ppm Ca. Same calculation for Cl which is 64% of CaCl2.
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 96 08:47:13 -0500
From: r-brodeur at ds.mc.ti.com (Russ Brodeur)
Subject: RTP Czech Pils Yeast
Aloha,
I recently used RTP (ready-to-pitch) Czech pils yeast to brew a
Vienna-style lager (OG=59). Fermentation proceeded very slowly at 45 F,
even with 1/2 gal starter in 5 gal of wort. I subsequently pitched the
yeast sediment from this batch into a Maibock (OG=69). This one went like
gang-busters (hk < 12h)at 45F.
I noticed both when measuring the FG for the Vienna and sampling the extra
maibock after racking to the secondary, that there was a noticeable
"fruity" flavor present. Otherwise, both beers are quite "clean" tasting.
I have never tasted this fruity flavor in any of my lagers before. I have
used Wyeast 2308 primarily, along with their Bavarian lager and Czech pils
strains as well.
Has anyone out there had any experience with this RTP strain???
Will this "fruitiness" fade with lagering??
TIA for any replies/comments/suggestions
TTFN --<- at
Russ Brodeur (r-brodeur at ds.mc.ti.com)
Franklin, MA
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Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 09:32:24 -0500
From: "Kelly C. Heflin" <kheflin at monmouth.com>
Subject: Understading yield.
I thought I would eventually figure this out on my own, but no. What the =
heck is the yield you get from the mashing and sparging process. I've =
seen it expressed in points per ?=20
Please explain.
Does someone edit this digest, my postings don,t end up here.
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 96 10:19:05 EST
From: Pierre Jelenc <pcj1 at columbia.edu>
Subject: Starters
In HOMEBREW Digest #1963 harperj at olympus.net (James M. Harper) asks:
> Regarding Tracy Aquilla's thesis on using only maltose as a yeast starter,
> wouldn't any fermentable polysacharide be equally as effective? It sure is
> easier to boil up some sucrose. ?????
The problem is not fermentation -- only glucose is fermented, ultimately --
but the enzymes needed to transport the sugar into the cell, to hydrolyse
it to monosaccharides, and to isomerize those to glucose if necessary.
Sucrose and maltose require different proteins for the job.
Pierre
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 96 09:53:34 EST
From: "Mike Bell" <Mike_Bell at ccmail.va.grci.com>
Subject: Attenuation Problem
I have been lurking here for a while, and have thoroughly enjoyed the
discussions. I ran into a problem this weekend, and would like to know if
the group can help out.
I have been brewing for about three years, and switched to all grain about
three months ago. This led to a tremendous improvement in quality. I
mostly brew ales as I don't have room in the refrigerator for the
fermenters, but also brew a couple of lagers a year and use my unheated
laundry room for fermentation and lagering. Temperatures typically run in
the 40's and 50's. I wondered whether this would work, but then I
remembered that the Germans used to lager in caves, probably with a similar
kind of temperature range.
On New Year's eve this past year I brewed a Bock, OG 1.067, and on New
Year's day a Czech Pilsner, OG 1.049. The Bock was fermented with Wyeast
Bavarian, and the Pilsner with Wyeast Bohemian. Both fermenters were kept
in a warm environment for a day or so until fermentation was evident, and
then were moved to the laundry room. The fermentation was slow and steady
in both vessels, and I racked both to secondaries after about two weeks.
Fermentation was still going at about the same rate at racking, and
appeared to finally die off at 3 to 3-1/2 weeks. Both fermenters appeared
to bubble at about the same rate, and both stopped within a couple of days
of the other.
I bottled the Bock a week ago, and the Pilsner this past weekend. The Bock
had FG 1.010 and acceptable flavor characteristics. The Pilsner however
had FG 1.022 and a noticeably sweet taste. I also could barely detect the
hops in the Pilsner despite using 3 ounces of Saaz in the boil, and another
ounce dry hopped in the secondary.
Both batches were pitched with good wort aeration, but just the smack packs
were pitched. I haven't yet made up yeast starters. Despite not using a
starter there was clear signs of fermentation within a day.
I remember reading somewhere that Wyeast Bohemian can have attenuation
problems, and I think that is what I have got. Has anyone else run into
this problem with this yeast, and is there anything I can do at this late
date? I did go ahead and bottle, and would dread the idea of having to
open them all and dump them back into the fermenter to repitch. Even
worse, I really don't want a pilsner grenade going off in my storage
closet.
Regards,
Mike Bell
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 08:17:27 -0800
From: spiralc at ix.netcom.com (Chris Carolan )
Subject: Cheap 8 1/2 gal. Brewpot
> I am finally in the market for a new mash
>kettle. The five-gallon enamelled steel canning vessel I inherited
>(okay,stole) from my stepmother was fine for my extract days.... At
>any rate, my pot needs upgradin'--eight gallons at least, if only to
>keep the spill rate down.
>Now, given the great price differential ....
Why not stick with enamelled steel and upgrade in size? I found a 34
qt. enamelled steel tamale steamer for 32 bucks!!. The kettle is extra
wide, covering two burners on my stove, thereby doubling the BTUs that
I can boil with. I found mine at a WalMart superstore located
proximate to an hispanic neighboorhood. Their superstores are larger
than a normal WalMart. (not affiliarted in any way..etc.). This kettle
is a good solution if you're on a budget and/or have a BTU challenged
stove. It works for me.
Chris
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 96 11:06:37 CST
From: Larry N. Lowe <lnl at apwk01g3.abrfc.noaa.gov>
Subject: RE: Questions about lagers
i am a relative newbie myself, but i have an experience to relate to
Rich about rocky racoon honey lager. a brewing buddy made a batch of
the rocky racoon and he experienced at least one of the same problems.
his beer, too, was too bitter after he brewed it. he waited a few
months, still bitter. he's not the type to dump out beer (who among
us are), so he kept them around and gave me a few after 11 months in
the bottle. he hadn't tried it again in some time and warned me of
the bitter taaste. well, it wasn't there and the beer was actually
pretty good. i have now weaseled a few more outta him. in other
words...don't give up on it after only 2 weeks. it will likely lose
it's bitterness with time. i would also imagine that the carbonation
problem will cure itself.
good luck
- --
from: Larry N. Lowe
NOAA, National Weather Service
Arkansas-Red Basin River Forecast Center
10159 East 11th St, Suite 300
Tulsa, Oklahoma 74128-3050
lnl at apwk01g3.abrfc.noaa.gov
Off: (918)832-4109 FAX: (918)832-4101
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 12:43:31 -0600
From: djones at iex.com (Douglas R. Jones)
Subject: Re: Celis
In Digest #1963 Tracy responded with:
>
>In Digest #1961:
>Bart Thielges <bart.thielges at Xilinx.COM>:
>>
>>As many fans of Celis Grand Cru know, its distribution has been greatly
>>curtailed and is only available in a few states now. Pity the fans who
>>became hooked, only to have their favorite product pulled from the shelves.
>
>What's the deal with this anyway? I thought the reason for Celis selling out
>to Miller was to INCREASE distribution, not "curtail" it. Did the plan
>back-fire?
> Tracy
Maybe I can shed some light on this. In Volume 3 Number 6 of the _Southwest
Brewing News_ is the following tidbit: "I asked if perhaps the Miller
majority ownership may have had something to do with possible change in the
brewing process, but Craif assured me that the Miller connection was all
positive. Miller brings a distribution network and a lot of marketing money
and expertise to the Celis Brewery, but they are not allowed to touch the
brewing process."
The Celis folks are also now writing a column for SBN and in Volume 4 number
1 Christine Celis writes: "We are currently working on Phase II of our
brewery expaqnsion, which should be complete by April 1st. We'll be adding
two fermentation vessels and three aging vessels, which will put us up to
45,000 barrels capacity per year."
So I would guess that what the Miller money has done is allow for expansion
of the operation. Which should translate into more product being available
around the country. This will take a bit of time I would suspect. So be patient.
Also the Brewery is hosting a public birthday bash for Pierre on March 22nd
from 5-9pm. Featuring live blues, food and brewery tours. Sounds like fun to
me! I hope to be able to attend.
They are also experimenting with a new beer due out sometime this year. It
is rumored to be an Belgian Abbey-style beer similar to a beer Pierre brewed
in Belgium called Forbidden Fruit. Sounds yummy to me!
Check out their web page at http://www.celis.com
Hope this helps,
Doug
- --------------------------------------------------
'I am a traveler of | Douglas R. Jones
both Time and Space' | IEX Corporation
Led Zeppelin | (214)301-1307
| djones at iex.com
- --------------------------------------------------
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Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 13:14:15 -0600 (CST)
From: fitz at fasicsv.fnal.gov (Tom Fitzpatrick)
Subject: Re: New Wyeast strains ...
>Date: 14 Feb 96 09:32:02 EST
>From: "William D. Knudson" <71764.203 at compuserve.com>
>Subject: New Wyeast Strains
>Welcome back everybody!
>HBD 1957 Chris Cooper reports on Wyeast Tech sheet for new strains.
>Chris asked for comments regarding commercial origins.
Bill and others ask about the new Wyeast strains ...
Talking to Dave Logsdon at Wyeast yielded the following info:
WY #1335 British Ale II - unknown origin.
WY #1318 London Ale II - thought to be Young's, but no definitive proof.
WY #1272 American Ale II - Used by several small American micros and brewpubs.
WY #1275 Thames Valley Ale - From Henley on Thames; commercial example
available as Henley Brakspear Bitter.
WY #1388 Belgian Strong - Duvel.
WY #1762 Belgian Abbey II - Rochefort; is this available in the states??
WY #2272 North American Lager - Christian Schmidt; who are these guys??
WY #3787 Trappist High Gravity - Westmalle.
WY #3942 Belgian Wheat - "A small brewery in Essens, Belgium."
Anyone know the name? :)
I wasn't interested in the other new strains and didn't ask about them ...
sorry.
Corrections? Comments?
-Tom Fitzpatrick
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon Feb 19 14:09 EST 1996
From: "MacRae Kevin J" <kmacrae at UF2269P01.PeachtreeCityGA.ATTGIS.COM>
Subject: DOH, Stupid Human Tricks
My new grainbag, used once, rinsed but not washed was hanging in the
laundry room. The wife, thinking it was for delicates, placed stockings,
bras ...
in it and into the wash. Well, it was alot of work rinsing, rinsing rinsing
and rewashing the grainbag, to get any soap out, but I've invented a
new fabric freshener.
A potential tragedy but, Once in a while you can get shone the light,
in the strangest of places.... if you look at it right.
Talk about having your cake and eating it too. Hey Murphy, looks like you
missed one.
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 19:43:19 GMT
From: elde at hurricane.net (Derek Lyons)
Subject: Beer and Color
alvidrez at injersey.com (Jeff Alvidrez) wrote:
>Besides which, just what is an "amber" or a "red"? These seem to me
>non-styles invented by less than creative brewers to differentiate
>themselves from the mass brews and, from the ones I have tried, connote
>little more about the beer's character than its color. Please, enlighten
>me if the truth is otherwise.
Exactly. 'Amber' and 'Red' are *marketing* names, not beer styles.
IMHO; They are designed to gull to public into believing they are
buying 'something different' without having to brew 'something
different' other than adding some specialty grains.
This movement was started by the budmilloors crowd, sadly the micro's
and brewpubs, (who should know better) are following them...
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 16:47:11 -0500
From: Tim Martin <TimM at southwest.cc.nc.us>
Subject: New Neighbor
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end
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Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 16:52:03 -0500
From: SStokes100 at aol.com
Subject: Please Remove My Name From the Mailing List
Please Remove My Name From The Mailing List
E-Mail Address: sstokes at aol.com
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 13:51:10 -0800
From: jlee at esd.ray.com (Jerry Lee)
Subject: pressurizing
Ok, I gotten a lot of questions about my converted keg/primary fermenter, so
I'll say a little bit here instead of over and over...then you can help me
with the next step...
I took an old 15 gal keg that someone somewhere really banged up. The tap had
been pried and it looked like it was dropped off the top a dorm. Finding it
for $13 was a steal...I finally got the tap out without damaging the neck.
There has to be a tool somewhere but I didn't have it. (Any suggestions for
the future?) I then turned the keg over...upside down and cut the bottom out.
I then got some light weight..18 guage? SS from the local recycler for 40 cents
a pound...I think it ran me $4.00. I then took this to the welder and had them
form a funnel and TIG weld it into the bottom. This then became my SS conical
fermenter. I had a cap welded onto the neck and tapped it for the ball valve
mount. Put this on a two foot high roll around and it made a near perfect
setup for me.
A few problems and ideas to hash through....The bottom is just a pot cover
over the hole. This does allow one to skim the surface, use a wine thief
for measurements and start with an open fermentation.
Problems...I haven't seen, heard off or conceptualized a method to pressurize
the system. I would like to figure out a sealable lid that can be
inexpensively constructed, to which I could then add the fittings and valves
from a corny keg.
This would have the added advantage of sealed transfers to the secondary and
natural carbonating if I did it all in this container. ie go straight to the
counter-pressure filler?
The second problem is that I can not sit this keg into the freezer (with the
ferm-temp controller) for lagering due to the ball valve sticking too far down.
If I could seal it, I could turn it over for lagering?? No...probably not, I
would lose the conical advantages...Hmmmmm Any constructive thoughts?
I'll compile and forward the good ones or at least the ones I'm going to try
and tell you how they worked.
===============
Bottom Cut Out -----> - ___________ -
-/ \-
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| |
|\ /|
SS Funnel Welded ----> | \ / |
| \ / |
Filed, sanded smooth | \ / |
and then acid treated | \ / |
======| |======
- ( ) -
======{ }======
=====================================================
~~~~~ / \
//\\\\\ / Jerry D. Lee, Jr. | SEPG Methods & Tools Chairman /
{| ~ ~ |} / Raytheon ESD | E-Mail : jlee at eng.esd.ray.com \
| ^ | / 6380 Hollister Ave | Tel : 805-967-5511 ext2306 \
\ = / \ Goleta, CA 93117 | Fax : 805-964-9185 _/
- --/\-/\-- \ \
\/^\/ \+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=|
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 14:15:43 -0800
From: jlee at esd.ray.com (Jerry Lee)
Subject: extraction efficency
>mcguire at hvsun40.mdc.com says:
>I've made batches with decoction, 1 , 2 and 3 step infusion mashes and they
>all seem to yield about the same extraction. A friend suggested to stop about
>half way thru the sparge and stir up the grain bed and recirulate before
>resuming sparging. I've also heard many people say it seemed completely
>dependant on false bottom.
>Is there any consensus??
Consensus? Here? Get serious...Actual I haven't heard many people here talking
about "raking" the grain bed, but it was one thing that brought up my
efficiency after getting the temperature problem stabilized.
My process...(good, bad or indifferent- I'm always ready to try something else)
After stepping up to the mash temperature (170F), gently transfer if you use a
seperate tun and don't forget the float water. Covering the bottom of the tun
with a couple inches of 170F water.
Then make a final stir of the grains. Let it settle for about 10 minutes.
Level out the grain bed to be fairly even, should help with a smooth flow
through the bed.
Recycle the inital wort to try and get any small precipitates back into the
filter. Using a SLOW sparge, a considerable number of people I have been
brewing with are using too fast a sparge (it's my opinion but this is what
works for me).
Finally, when the bed is established and the temperature is stable, every ten
to fifteen minutes I use a long thin pastry spatula (a long knife would also
work) to draw through the grain bed. I make my "cuts" app two inches apart
from left to right and then I make another set of "cuts" from top to bottom
(looking down on the grain bed) again app. two inches apart. Basically that
makes a square patchwork on the grain (if it didn't flow back together).
DO NOT GO TOO DEEP. I look at the depth of my bed and only rake to about half
way down.
This one addition has made a major difference in my efficiencies. Of course
if you only have a six or eight inch grain bed, this might be a little
difficult, and the more I think about it the more the concept of a shallow
bed is disagreeable...I must find the definitive answer now...OK you Siebel
and U.C,Davis guys, this MUST be a basic area of coverage...what did you learn
TIA
=====================================================
~~~~~ / \
//\\\\\ / Jerry D. Lee, Jr. | SEPG Methods & Tools Chairman /
{| ~ ~ |} / Raytheon ESD | E-Mail : jlee at eng.esd.ray.com \
| ^ | / 6380 Hollister Ave | Tel : 805-967-5511 ext2306 \
\ = / \ Goleta, CA 93117 | Fax : 805-964-9185 _/
- --/\-/\-- \ \
\/^\/ \+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=|
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 09:24:13 +1000
From: nigelt at delm.tas.gov.au (Nigel Townsend)
Subject: bottle washing/fast fermentation
In HBD 1963, Woody Weaver asked
"when I tried to actually put the bottles into the dishwasher, I became
perplexed. Placing them upsidedown on the spines didn't work (the spines
were too short, meaning the bottles would rattle and possibly break in the
wash) and I couldn't figure any good way to anchor them."
I place thee bottles over the spines and lean them over. I put in enough
so that when the rack is pushed in, they are jammed from side to side, and
cannot move. I manage to get in 3 rows of bottles, out of 4 rows of
spines. Done this 3 times now and no problems so far with broken bottles.
I had my fastest (extract ale) ferment yesterday. I placed the yeast in
the fermenter at about 2pm (day 1). By 6 pm (day 1) I had foaming out of
the airlock (first time in about 20 batches), at 7am (day 2) all movement
in the fermenter had stopped and no bubbles through the airlock and
fermentation apparantly completed. Checked the gravity and it had dropped
from a SG of 1040 to 1015 with no sweetness in the flavour. At 5pm (day 2)
no further bubbling and I couldnt believe that the ferment had finished, it
was warm enough so I thought that maybe the yeast needed a boost and added
2 teaspoons of yeast nutrient, but no variation in SG and no bubbling at 7
am (day 3). Check again tonight and if no change, I will place in the
secondary.
One variable from my usual practise was to add 4 teaspoons of yeast
nutrient to the fermenter at the same time as the starter. The other
variable was to make a larger stater. Normally I make a starter in a glass
bottle of about 1/4 litre (cooled) boiled water, with about 4 teaspoons of
DME, 2 teaspoons of yeast nutrient and one or two packets of dried yeast
and leave for about 24 hours in the kitchen (warm). I usually place cotton
wool in the neck to keep out the bugs and flame the neck before pouring.
This time I used a two litre coke (tm) "plastic" bottle, I litre of
(cooled) boiled water with about one table spoon of brown sugar (soft, not
demera), 2 table spoons of DME, and 2 packs of dried yeast extract, with
plenty of shaking to increase the oxygen levels in the water. I just
screwed the lid on, without an airlock or cotton wool, which meant that I
could shake more vigorously. I had to start releasing the pressure the
following morning (9 hours later) as the bottle was bulging! I released
pressure (still leaving a residual positive pressure) every few hours after
that and it was noticable how the process (bubbling) recommenced
dramatically after a release of pressure. I used the starter after about
16 hours.
Nigel Townsend
Hobart, Tasmania
Australia
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 96 15:53:05 PST
From: stafford at alcor.hac.com (Jack Stafford)
Subject: Re: Force carbonate with N2/CO2 mix?
On Fri, 16 Feb 1996, mberman at bbn.com (Mark Berman) wrote:
> I've seen some traffic here about the advantages of using a
>nitrogen and carbon dioxide mix for dispensing from a corny keg setup, and
>I'm tempted to try it out. However, I have only one gas tank and don't
>want to invest in another to try this experiment.
Last week I had my CO2 (carbon dioxide) bottle refilled and asked the
guy if it could be refilled with anything other than CO2 to drive a keg
of stout. When I suggested N2O he raised an eyebrow and shook his head.
He said that to fill it with anything other than CO2 would require them
to install a different valve in the top of the pressure bottle.
He suggested that he could fill the bottle as is with a "beer mixture"
that they provide. It consists of part CO2 and part Ar (argon). I made
my own skeptical face and had it filled with straight CO2.
Jack stafford at alcor.hac.com
Costa Mesa, CA
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 19:25:09 -0500
From: GuyPurdy at aol.com
Subject: Black Butte Porter Clone?
Dear HBD,
I'm fairly new to HBD, so this may have been posted in earlier
issues, but I am looking to find a clone recipe for Black Butte Porter by
Deschutes Brewing Company. The beer has a slight fruity undertaste, so I'm
wondering if they use something akin to Wyeast European Ale #1338? As far as
hop usage, I just can't tell, being relatively new to homebrewing (may '95).
Any help here would be greatly appreciated. I also have some friends new to
home brewing, or thinking about homebrewing, that would like to find some Low
Alcohol beer recipes. (?!!?) I know, why would anyone want to do that? But
one guy has a weak liver, but loves homebrewed beer, so help in this genre
would also be appreciated. Thanks a lot.
Guy Purdy
Bothell, WA
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 96 15:39:38 CST
From: korz at pubs.ih.att.com (Algis R Korzonas)
Subject: HSA/chilling and break/Scottish Ale/Papazian improvements/Lactose/Grain bed depth/Ancient brew
Sorry about these being very old subjects, but I was sick (again!)
for two weeks and out of touch with my net access.
Rob writes:
>It is natural to think that events near the end of the brewing process have
>more influence on oxidation than things that happen in the mash or kettle,
>since aeration during bottling, for example, is closest to the point at
>which the oxidation is noticed. For this reason, I used to pooh-pooh the
>idea of HSA (hot-side aeration) and think that it made only a minor
>contribution to oxidation. HSA is important to the extent that it alters
>the rH and takes the wort closer to eventual oxidation. If air pickup in
>bottling is more important, it is only because it has a greater effect on
>the rH, not because it is later in the process.
I don't know any more about rH than Rob has written and perhaps there is much
to be learned in this area with regards to brewing, but the importance of
not aerating hot wort is very clear. In my experience, it does not take
any time for hot-side aeration (HSA) to alter the flavour of a beer -- the
flavour change is different from that you get from "staling" oxidation."
To me, HSA gives the beer a "sherrylike" flavour (like Harvey's Bristol
Cream... really) whereas post-fermentation aeration smells like wet cardboard
or, in really bad cases, Playdough(tm).
***
Tracy writes:
>The CF chiller should only produce more cold break if you chill the wort to
>a lower temperature than you did with your immersion chiller (which is often
>the case when using CF chillers; who wants to wait 45 minutes or more for
>their immersion chiller to do the job?). The final temperature reached is
>really what counts; the rate of cooling generally isn't significant.
I would really need to do more experimentation with the settling rates of
the cold break as a function of speed of cooling, but very unscientifically,
I've found that I've gotten *more solid* cold break when chilling quickly.
Furthermore, I use an immersion chiller and with a small amount of agitation,
I get from 212F to 70F in 15 minutes with Chicago tapwater in the wintertime.
To say that immersion chillers take 45 minutes is incorrect and very unfair.
The speed of chilling is dependent on the temperature of the coolant and the
relative rates of flow of the wort and coolant. There is nothing inherently
faster about cooling with either an immersion or counterflow chiller if there
is a reasonable amount of circulation of wort around the immersion chiller.
***
Ken writes:
>Scotch ale should be pretty malty.
and
Gabrielle writes:
>I just transfered my scottish export ale into the secondary last night
>and took the gravity reading. (OG = 1.050, now SG = 1.017) After taking
>the reading, I tasted it. It tasted a bit too bitter for a scottish ale.
I really don't know who it was that started the fallacy that Scottish Ales
are much less bitter than English Bitters. It was probably the same person
who said that Scottish Ales don't have a hop aroma. Take a look at Roger
Protz's Real Ale Almanac (3rd Edition) and compare the BUs and aromas of
British and Scottish Ales. There is little or no correlation between hop
usage and origin. The primary difference between English Bitters and Scottish
Ales is that the former tends to be a little fruitier and the latter less
fruity. Makes sense: it's colder up north and the yeast produce less esters!
You can find very malty Bitters from southern England and very bitter,
*dryhopped* Scottish Ales.
***
Peter writes:
>However, to date I have been following a strict Papazian
>extract brewing process. I would like some suggestions from those out there
>with experience on how to improve my beer while still maintaining the
>simplicity in brewing <snip>
>I start with 2 gallons of water in my 4gal. ss pot and turn
>the stove on high heat. Specialty grains are steeped in a grain bag in
>water until boiling begins. Upon boiling, grains are removed and discarded
>and extracts and boiling hops are added. Boil for 55 min. Add finishing
>hops, boil 5 more min. (Now hold on to something) I pour the hot wort
>(CAREFULLY) through a sanitized strainer into a sanitized 5gal carboy with 3
>gal cold (not boiled) tap water. Then add more water to make a full five
>gal.
The best thing you can do is to cool the wort before aerating it. Pouring
hot wort through a funnel is a classic example of how to create HSA (see
above). One way to avoid HSA would be to put your cooled 3 or 4 gallons of
"topping up" water into a sanitized 7 gal plastic pail. Now you can pour your
hot wort *gently* into the cool water -- hops and all. Then, pour or scoop
your cooled wort through your strainer into the fermenter. I use hop bags
(yes, they are made of nylon, but are thicker and not stretchy like stockings)
so I don't have to even use the strainer.
***
Aidan writes, answering someone's question:
>| Also, what would happen to the finished product if someone added
>| 9 oz. of lactose to the primary of a 5 gal. stout batch with an
>| OG of 1.064?
>
>Too much lactose will give you a "cheesy" taste - I found this
>out the hard way.
>
>I used 100g (from memory) which is approx 4 oz.
>
>I'd try 2 oz to start with if I was you.
I'd blame the "cheesyness" on something else. Lactose does not give any
"cheesy" flavours. Lactose if just barely sweet (taste for yourself --
compare it to glucose). I would recommend 8 oz in 5 gallons for a slight
sweetness and up to a pound for something approaching Mackeson's XXX.
***
David writes:
>Ideal grain bed depth is around six inches.
What's your source on this. I've read that it is 18 inches, but this is
for a commercial operation. Then again, what's the difference between what
we do and a commercial brewery except for volume. I would say that 6 inches
is close to the bare minimum for grain bed depth. My depth varies from 8
to 12 inches and I wouldn't mind it being 18 inches except that that's more
than the height of my current lauter tun!
***
Mike writes:
>Newcastle's Tutankhamun Ale!
>I read that they were brewing only
>about 1000 bottles, and that it would not be available to the public.
>Only some "experts" would be given the chance to taste it.
I saw a program on that on A&E. Seems as if they did their homework on
the grains and the spicing, but then compleatly blew it on the yeast.
They said that they chose a yeast that would ferment within two or three
days *so they were confident that it was similar to the yeast used by
the ancient brewers*. Baloney! This clearly shows me that the "researchers"
have no idea of how much yeast can affect the flavour of the finished beer.
Furthermore, they said the beer tasted "clean" and not too dissimilar from
modern beer except for the lack of hops -- which implies that there was no
lactic fermentation. I would be amazed if there was no lactic component to
the ancient brews in their original form. The yeast is the crucial missing
part of these ancient brews and until these so-called "researchers" figure
that out, they will come nowhere near the beer brewed in ancient Egypt.
They did say that they were contemplating a commercial run of the beer.
Al.
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz at pubs.att.com
Copyright 1996 Al Korzonas
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 96 15:41:53 CST
From: korz at pubs.ih.att.com (Algis R Korzonas)
Subject: soft water/Grand Cru/Irish Moss rehydration
Ron writes:
>I am very fortunate in that the local municipal water supply is very soft
>(less than 10 ppm). However, the pH is 6.33. Not terribly high but I would
>like to adjust it to the optimum mash pH levels.
"Not terribly high...?" You should have said "Quite low!" Typical water used
in brewing varies in pH from 7.5 to maybe 8.5 or 9. Depending on how much
Calcium you have in your water, you may have to add carbonates just to get
the pH UP! I suggest you mix 1/4 pound of crushed pale malt with 8 ounces of
your tapwater, mix well, let it sit for 15 minutes and measure the pH. If
it's below 5.0, you will have to add chalk (calcium carbonate) and if it's
above 5.8 or so (unlikely, given your water), you will have to add either
acid or something like gypsum (for pale ales or dorts) or calcium chloride
(for things like pilsners).
***
Bart writes:
> 1) Collect information on what might constitute a Grand Cru recipe
There is no such style as "Grand Cru," no more than there is a style called
"Deluxe." Brewers will add the designation "Grand Cru" to their "deluxe"
beer -- perhaps it is higher gravity or aged longer or taken from a single
cask. Question: what do Celis Grand Cru and Rodenbach Grand Cru have in
common?
Bart's initial quest was something similar to Celis Grand Cru. What you
seek is a good recipe for Celis White and then raise the OG and replace the
unmalted wheat with malted barley -- Celis Grand Cru is an all-barley-malt
coriander-spiced beer with some curacao orange peel in it. Some say that
there is another secret ingredient, but Pierre has both confirmed and
denied this (depending on his mood, I think).
***
Greg writes:
>Should Irish moss should be rehydrated prior to being added to boiling wort?
Yes. Rehydrate overnight. Refined flakes are best.
Al.
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz at pubs.att.com
Copyright 1996 Al Korzonas
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 21:45:10 -0600 (CST)
From: afmccaul at rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu (Tony McCauley)
Subject: Brewing Waste and Septic Systems
I recently moved into a house with a septic system to handle the household
waste. Knowing that septic systems are balanced system of bacteria and other
microbes, I'm a little concerned as a break out the brewing equipment.
We're careful about the amount of clorox that gets used in the laundry. I will
be doing the same with my sanatizing solutions. I used Iodaphor for my first
batch and dumped the excess solution on the drive way (1/2 oz in 5 gal H2O).
Am I just being paranoid with the affects on the septic?
The second thing I'm concerned with is the disposal of the dregs. While
brewing yeast isn't designed to ferment sewage, I'm sure it would find
something to work on in the septic tank. (Imagine sitting on the stool in the
middle of the night when it turns into a fermentation lock and burps CO2.)
Is it safe to run the dregs down the drain, or should I feed them to the grass
and trees?
Thanks for any help.
Tony McCauley -- afmccaul at ilstu.edu
Liaison Officer - ABNormal Brewers
.
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