HOMEBREW Digest #1979 Fri 08 March 1996

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		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

  Re: You bet it's beer, Dom (Larry N. Lowe)
  Malty Pale Ale? ("Craig Rode")
  Alts (Jim Busch)
  Yet Another Sanitizer Question (Todd Kirby)
  Books/Alt/Fridge Extension (Bill Rust)
  Oxygen Depletion Sensor (krkoupa)
  Copper (Kelly Jones)
  Uses for 1 gallon carboys (Peter J. Naus)
  Cassia, Cinnamon, Spices and Resonable Prices (Jeff Smith)
  alt recipe (ESMPD)" <gcunning at Census.GOV>
  RE:Chocolate (Chris Kantzes)
  Channeling Momily (Jerry Lee)
  carbonated filtering (Jerry Lee)
  Rice in beer (Chris Storey)
  Alt recipe (korz)
  Diacetyl and 2,3-pentanedione (korz)
  Brewing Terms (Tidmarsh Major)
  Reusing Yeast (Kelly Heflin)
  Vinyl Tubing Film (Mcgregap)
  Cornelius Kegs Systems (Mcgregap)
  Easy, Delicious Old Ale recipe for ya' (Todd W. Roat)
  Canadian beer (ugh!) ("Clark D. Ritchie")
  Lagering Process Temperatures (Steven A. Smith)
  SABCO RIMS (Art Steinmetz)
  Re: Clarifying Agents (Mitch Hogg)
  re:Yes, you can re-use primary trub (BJFABB)
  Calories in Beer (John DeCarlo                       )
  Channeling (John DeCarlo                       )
  Re: Boston Beer Bottles (Bill Rust)
  Re: Boston Beer Bottles (Douglas R. Jones)
  Chili Spiciness / Same As It Ever Was /Glenn's Recipe Post! (KennyEddy)
  NOTE 03-06-96 10:30:11 AM ("Peter Rust")
  Recipes in the Digest; Egyptian Beers (Glenn Raudins)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 5 Mar 96 8:31:43 CST From: Larry N. Lowe <lnl at apwk01g3.abrfc.noaa.gov> Subject: Re: You bet it's beer, Dom well said carey! - -- from: Larry N. Lowe NOAA, National Weather Service Arkansas-Red Basin River Forecast Center 10159 East 11th St, Suite 300 Tulsa, Oklahoma 74128-3050 lnl at apwk01g3.abrfc.noaa.gov Off: (918)832-4109 FAX: (918)832-4101 Return to table of contents
Date: 5 Mar 1996 09:08:06 -0600 From: "Craig Rode" <craig.rode at sdrc.com> Subject: Malty Pale Ale? Subject: Time: 8:51 AM OFFICE MEMO Malty Pale Ale? Date: 3/5/96 Maybe somebody here can shed some light on a question on my last batch: About 3 months ago, I made an American Pale Ale. The grain bill was: 5 lbs DWC Pale 5 lbs Schrier 2 Row .5 lbs Crystal .5 lbs CaraPils Mashed 1 hour at 156F, 1 oz Perle at 60 min .5 oz cluster at 45 min dry hopped 1 oz cascade 2 weeks OG = 1.046 (yeah, my efficiency sucks) Wyeast 1056 Fermentation temp 62F. And it was very good. NOW: I did the same thing a month ago, with three exceptions: (1) I used an extra pound of DWC and one less of Schrier (2) I used the much talked about 40-60-70 mash schedule. (3) During the dry hop, the stopper blew out of the secondary. I didn't worry too much about (3) because there was still some krausen and hop gook on the top of the beer, and so much has been written about open fermentation that I figured I'd be OK. I bottled last Saturday. The problem: last night I popped a bottle for QA, and I was very surprised by the taste. It had a very pronounced malt taste to it, much much more than the first pale ale. So the question is....is there any infection that has a taste that I could be confusing with maltyness? Does the 40-60-70 make a HUGE difference in this area vs. single infusion? Could it be the grain bill? All advice, as usual, would be greatly appreciated. Craig Rode Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 10:09:07 -0500 (EST) From: Jim Busch <busch at eosdev2.gsfc.nasa.gov> Subject: Alts Bruce comments about altbiers and Otter Creek Ale: <Alt continues to be one of the fascinating style to me. Two years ago I <was in Vermont and drank Otter Creek Copper Ale and loved it. The label <said something about inspired by the ales/alts of Dusseldorf (can't <remember the quote). Ive never thought of Copper Ale as a good example of Dusseldorfer Alt, but then Ive never had a good example on this side of the pond. < I typically use about 6 lb pale domestic 2-row, 1-2 lb <Munich malt (sometimes substituting 1 lb Vienna for 1 lb Munich), 1/2-1 lb <various crystals (usually CaraMunich), and sometimes 1 oz. roasted barley <(I detected a roast flavor in Otter Creek). All this in a single temp <infusion mash with essentially d.i. water and lots of low alpha hops. I should preface this with the comment that Ive never brewed an Alt but heres some suggestions (I really should brew this!). German Pils and Munich malts, Ireks, Durst or Weyermann are good choices. Munich malt at 20-30% of the grist. CaraMunich at 3-5% of grist. I would avoid Roasted barley. Dough in at 104F, rest 15-20 mins. Raise to 122F for 20 mins, pull decoction. Hold decoction at 148F for 30 mins, then boil for 20 mins. Combine mashes and rest at 148-150F for 30-45 mins, raise to 158 for 10 mins, then 170F and lauter. Boil 30 mins then add 40 BUs German spalt. Boil this for 60 mins. At 30 min before knock out add 5-10 BUs spalt or H. hallertaur. Some might want 50 BUs for the first hopping. Chill to 60F, pump large amounts of oxygen in and pitch dregs of 2+ litres Alt yeast. Ferment 60F for 10-14 days, then rack to conditioning tank. Hold secondary in 32F frige for 2-4 weeks, keg and force prime or krausen to carbonate. If you cant get spalt, try Tettnanger Tettnang. OG 12-12.5P FG 2P If anyone makes this, let me know how it comes out! Prost! Jim Busch --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ICTORY BREWING CO. ----- Downingtown, Pa. --- - A Victory For Your Taste! Festbier, Lager and IPA Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 10:03:25 -0500 (EST) From: Todd Kirby <mkirby at bgsm.edu> Subject: Yet Another Sanitizer Question While browsing through a local salvage store I recently came across a sanitizer for use in restaurants and bars. It's in the quaternary ammonium class of compounds, and comes in tablet form (1 tablet per gallon water). The directions indicated that equipment was to be dipped for two minutes and then allowed to air dry (similar to iodophor). In all the articles and posts on sanitizers, I've never seen this stuff mentioned. Like iodophor, it is only a sanitizer, not a cleaner. A box of 500 tablets costs about a buck(!) at the salvage store, so I'm curious if it's a good choice for homebrewers. After making some phone calls to local bar and restaurant suppliers, it seems that it is the same sanitizer as 'beerclean'. No supplier in my area carries iodophor, but several sell this stuff. Does anyone have any experience? Thanks, Todd Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 96 10:43 EST From: Bill Rust <wrust at csc.com> Subject: Books/Alt/Fridge Extension Greetings Brewers! I'd like to chime in on the 'best books' thread.... In HBD Douglas writes: >Thanks in advance for your imput! I feel that everyone could benefit >from a "frank" discussion on the usefullness of some of the books I've >mentioned as well as those I, probably as a Canadian, know nothing >about; Mosher is one of many I'm sure. I think brewers use different books at various stages of their experience. For instance I started with Papazian's _The Complete Joy of Home Brewing_ and had it as my only book for a couple of years. Now, however, I most often use Miller's _Brewing the World's Great Beers_ (the recipes are terrific!). I also think your brewing style has a lot to do with it. I prefer the humor and enthusiasm of the Papazian book, but other brewing friends of mine prefer the more methodical, technical references. Bearing this in mind, I would find it extremely difficult to pick only one book to recommend to brewers in general. - ----------------- Regarding Alt recipe formation... >Al and the collective - what are the recommendations on the content of the >grist? > - - continental Munich? > - - pale malt - DWC, German, domestic? > - - other malts, like crystal? The recipes I've seen include chocolate malt which gives it a very distinct flavor and provides the characteristic color (ref. Miller's BTWGB, an excellent Alt recipe!). - ----------------- Regan Pallandi asks... > However, as >most of you have noticed, no doubt, the average fridge doesn't fit more >than one fermenter at a time. I seem to remember somewhere, that you can >"explode" the body of the fridge forward with plywood and insulation. >Fair enough. What I'd like to know is: will the extra volume wreak havoc >on the compressor? Will this configuration add an extra zero to my >electricity bill? Has anyone tried this? Any thoughts or comments would >be appreciated. I have a Westinghouse 'round top' refrigerator. The cooling elements are built in the freezer box in the top center of the fridge. This prevents me from putting anything but one pepsi corny keg and one 5 gal. carboy (or 2 carboys). I was also thinking of extending the volume by adding a box extension to the front and attaching the door to the extension. Dave Miller's _Brewing the World's Great Beers_ has couple of pages and a picture about how to do this. He says that if it is for a lagering fridge, and won't be opened as much, the compressor should be fine. Hope this helps... ------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Rust, Master Brewer | Jack Pine Savage Beer & Ale Jack Pine Savage Brewery | "Sure, Drinking Kills Brain Cells, Shiloh, IL (NACE) | but only the WEAK ONES!" ------------------------------------------------------------- Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 96 08:12:15 PST From: krkoupa at ccmail2.srv.PacBell.COM Subject: Oxygen Depletion Sensor I just received a tool catalog in the mail which sells a 16,000 BTU infrared LP gas heater with an O.D.S. (Oxygen Depletion Sensor) analyzer. This ODS "shuts the heater down when oxygen is lowered to an unsafe level." I don't care about the infrared heater portion (InfraRed & InfraRed Light? Are those new beers on the market?) but the ODS seems like it has promise for indoor LP gas brewers. Does anyone sell these ODS analyzers/shut-off "valves" as a separate unit, to be used as an in-line device? The whole heater setup costs $43, so the ODS can't be all that expensive. Please don't restart the whole "inside gas" thing, just tell me if I can get such a device or not. Thanks! Ken Koupal krkoupa at ccmail2.pacbell.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 1996 09:00:56 -0800 From: Kelly Jones <kejones at ptdcs2.intel.com> Subject: Copper In HBD #1976 AJ wrote: >My run-of-the-mill Pilsner, made with >RO water, mashed and boiled in stainless but chilled in a copper >chiller has 0.2 mg/L Fantastic! This is the type of info I was looking for. >My neutralized and softened well water picks up >1.25 mg/L in running through the copper pipes in the house. I'm curious as to why neutralized water picks up 1.25ppm, while acidic wort running through a chiller only picks up 0.2ppm? Could the yeast be sequestering this metal? Also, if neutral water picks up 1.25ppm, how much might we expect to be picked up in a RIMS system, where acidic wort is constantly recycled through copper plumbing? Any ideas? Kelly Jones Portland, OR Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 12:18:17 -0600 From: naus at mail.utexas.edu (Peter J. Naus) Subject: Uses for 1 gallon carboys I was walking home yesterday when I spotted several 1 gallon glass carboys in a recycling bin. Well, I knew I needed them so I grabbed them. Now that I have them, what did I need them for again?? Anybody have any great uses for these? E-mail Welcome. Double shot of foaming thanks in advance, Peter Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 12:52:54 -0600 (CST) From: snsi at win.bright.net (Jeff Smith) Subject: Cassia, Cinnamon, Spices and Resonable Prices In HBD #1976 Pierre Jelenc writes: >"Cassia" and "quassia" are altogether different beasts. The former is >indeed a cinnamon substitute (_not_ real cinnamon, which is practically >unavailable except at extortionate prices in specialty shops) Pierre is correct on the Cassia/Cinnamon. Cassia is grown China, Vietnam and Sumatra. True Cinnamon is grown in Sri Lanka. Pierre is also correct that most Americans have never tasted "True cinnamon". The spice store that I use, Penzeys, Ltd. has 4oz bulk, ground, Sri Lankan Cinnamon, "Continental Grade" (the highest grade in true cinnamon) for $7.49, uncut sticks of the same grade run $5.99 for a 4oz bag. BTW I use the China Cassia cinnamon ($3.09 per 4oz). The reason I decided to post this is that I always see brewers who don't know where to find some spice. Penzeys has just about any spice you could want. I won't try to list all the spices but it was the only place I could find Sichuan peppercorns for a mead I've been planning. I guess this is where I put standard disclaimers. You can reach Penzeys at: Penzeys, Ltd. PO Box 1448 Waukesha, WI 53187 Phone# 414-574-0277 Jeff Smith '71 HD Sprint 350SX snsi at win.bright.net Barnes, WI Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 14:19:59 -0500 (EST) From: "Jerry Cunningham (ESMPD)" <gcunning at Census.GOV> Subject: alt recipe >Somebody said: > >"Personally, I'd prefer to see *no* recipes posted to the digest." ;*) This recipe was originally from Bruce DeBolt (I changed it a bit), and my attempts to thank him via email have been bouncing all over the place. I have brewed some of my best beers from recipes I've received from you kind folks on the HBD, while I can't believe some of the stuff I see in other places on the net! The digest has an incredibly high signal to noise ratio (please pause and pat yourselves on the back), and it's great for some of us who aren't master brewers to grab a recipe or two from someone we can trust. Anyway, here's my original note to Bruce: - ----------------------------------------- I've been meaning to drop you a note for a month or so. You emailed me an alt recipe a few months back and I wanted to let you know how it turned out. It was great. I drained the last one a few nights ago :( . I pretty much followed your latest recipe, except for the yeast and hops. I used 1007 (instead of 1338), because I've used it before - and a used a hop called Crystal - supposedly an American Hallertau Mittelfreuh clone (my local shop was out of the Tettnanger/Liberty you suggested): 8 lbs. Belgian 2-row Pilsen (1.5L) 2 lbs. Belgian 2-row Munich (~4L) 1/2 lb. Belgian 2-row Aromatic (~21L) 1/2 lb. Belgian 2-row Carapils (?L) 1/2 lb. Belgian 2-row Caramunich (~64L) 1/2 lb. German wheat (?L) 3.25 oz. Crystal (pellets, 3.3%) 60 min. 0.75 oz. Crystal " 30 min. 1007 German Ale yeast OG 1053 FG 1011 I mashed (single infusion) at 152F for 1.5 hours. Primary fermented at around 55-60F for 6 days. I split the batch after the primary - put 1 gallon in my fridge at around 38F for two weeks, while the other 4 gallons sat in a carboy in my basement at around 70F. The beer was very spicy (from the 1007?) at first, but mellowed out nicely after about 4 weeks. The cold-conditioned gallon was smoother, and more drinkable at an earlier age (~2 weeks after bottling) than the warm-conditioned portion. The cold-conditioned beers were also *brilliantly clear*! It was perfectly balanced (to me), with a complex maltiness that I haven't had in any of my past beers. The IBU's were around 36, using Tinseth's calculator. The color was perfect (dark copper?), though the alcohol was probably a bit on the high side for the style. Thanks again for the recipe! - Jerry Cunningham Annapolis, MD Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 1996 13:52:43 -0600 From: chriskan at cs-crt.frco.com (Chris Kantzes) Subject: RE:Chocolate In HOMEBREW Digest #1976, Margaret Kelly <mkelly at piper.hamline.edu> wrote: >Subject: chocolate > >I recently brewed a cherry chocolate stout (Mon Cheri Stout). This was the >first time I used chocolate in a recipe. I used the baking chocolate you >buy at the grocery store and threw it in the brew pot to melt. After I >racked to the secondary a layer of something (cream in color) formed on the >top--I assumed it was leftover fermentation but this layer never subsided. >I bottled anyways. A similar layer formed on the top of the beer in the >bottles after 3 weeks. Never tasted any off flavors. I'm guessing it was >just the fats/oils in the chocolate separating out. >Anyone else have this experience with chocolate? Do you think baking >cocoa would have a similar effect? And does baking cocoa yield similar >taste results? > What you're seeing is cocoa butter. I just finished the Chocolate Porter partial mash recipe from Charlie Papazian's "The Home Brewer's Companion" which discussed the issue of cocoa butter and what a mess it makes. Charlie seemed to think that after two rackings (primary to secondary and secondary to bottling bucket), you would rack the beer out from under the cocoa butter. In order to avoid the mess, I used cocoa powder instead (as Charlie suggested) and the Porter turned out fine. Nice and chocolaty. Can't remember the conversion factor, but I used a LOT of cocoa powder (used the Dutch processed stuff too, which may make a difference from the normal US variety). Anybody know what difference the chocolate vs. dutch-processed cocoa vs. cocoa makes? -- Chris Kantzes -- Fisher-Rosemount Systems Inc. -- Phone 612-895-2859, Fax 612-895-2853 -- Internet: chriskan at rosemount.com, Compuserve: 103427,3020 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 11:45:23 -0800 From: jlee at esd.ray.com (Jerry Lee) Subject: Channeling Momily Jack Schmidling says: > Why not ask a brewer who has had channeling problems? If you can > find one. Better yet, ask those who haven't a clue why this even becomes > a contested thread. Been drinking those bitters again? Haven't been evaluating the process? Never had a stuck sparge or lower than expected gravity? Ever brew to style where too much is as bad as too little or do you just add water? > Once the mash is complete and sparging commences, stirring is a bit like > slapping your wife or girlfriend around before hopping into bed. It is > counter productive to say the least. Says you...to some it might lead to a whole new experience...different strokes for different folks. I would say both your comments are open for debate. (Not that I personally disagree about the slapping). > If an inch or so of water is maintained above the mash during lautering, > channeling is a non issue <snip> Hmmmm, is that so? Just jumped in here with that fact/opinion? > and stirring will only disturb the filter bed Read again about bed dynamics...and stirring -vs- cutting (home version of raking), the two are not the same. One aggitates the entire bed, the other does not. As your analogies go...a waveless waterbed vs a non-baffled waterbed (one disrupts the other does not). > and cause my phone to ring with folks complaining about "stuck sparges" > with their EASYMASHERS (R). More hearsay...I doubt it's ever happened. :-) ===================================================== ~~~~~ / \ //\\\\\ / Jerry D. Lee, Jr. | SEPG Methods & Tools Chairman / {| ~ ~ |} / E-Systems /Raytheon | E-Mail : jlee at eng.esd.ray.com \ | ^ | / One So. Los Carneros | Tel : 805-967-5511 ext2306 \ \ = / \ Goleta, CA 93117-5597 | Fax : 805-964-9185 _/ --/\-/\-- \ \ \/^\/ \+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=| Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 13:08:07 -0800 From: jlee at esd.ray.com (Jerry Lee) Subject: carbonated filtering OK...I would like some suggestions...again. (Gimme a break...that's not what I wanted and you know it) I was trying to reduce some steps in my filtering and had more difficulty than in the past. (On top of which I was trying to show the prez of the local Santa Barbara club how easy it was) I am completing my secondary in a pressurized vessel and so I have the yeast and full carbonation at the end of the secondary. I cooled the secondary with the beer down to 35F to stop fermentation and clear the beer (not racked off yeast/trub). I figured on driving the beer through the filter into a corny for aging and later cp filling. In the past I have racked into a corny first and filtered still beer before carbonating. Always worked fine. This time I could not keep the beer level in the filter. (home water style filter w/1 micron nominal filter, unkown efficiency) The beer would not go above half way into the filter and then it drove foam/beer into the corny. The relief valve on top was no help. There were copious amounts of yeast caught by the filter and the end result was a clear beer w/ no more carbonation.... Why did the filter drive the carbonation out of the beer and how did this beer get driven out of the filter when it always looked like it was half foam? Has anyone played with filtering precarbonated beer? What problems/solutions did you come up with? The prez suggested I post this but I had reservations...for obvious reasons....ok, go ahead and let me have it :-) ===================================================== ~~~~~ / \ //\\\\\ / Jerry D. Lee, Jr. | SEPG Methods & Tools Chairman / {| ~ ~ |} / E-Systems /Raytheon | E-Mail : jlee at eng.esd.ray.com \ | ^ | / One So. Los Carneros | Tel : 805-967-5511 ext2306 \ \ = / \ Goleta, CA 93117-5597 | Fax : 805-964-9185 _/ --/\-/\-- \ \ \/^\/ \+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=| Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 17:55:09 GMT From: Chris Storey <cstorey at mail.peterboro.net> Subject: Rice in beer I just read something about the large domestic breweries using rice in their beer. Why would they use rice? What does it do to the beer? I am an extract brewer so far and I use all-malt and grains in my beer. If I used some rice, how much would I use? Could I use rice in an extract recipe? I'm just curious because if Molson's here in Canada and other big breweries use rice in some or all of their beers, I would like to know why? P.S. They don't list their ingredients at all in their beers! Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 96 15:09:08 CST From: korz at pubs.ih.att.com Subject: Alt recipe Bruce asks about an Alt recipe. Here's (from memory) my closest yet attempt at brewing a clone of Zum Uerige (the best Duesseldorfer Altbier in the opinion of Jackson, Deschner and (not surprisingly) me): 7.5 pounds Munich malt (I used DWC, but you could use Ireks, Durst...) 1/2 pound Biscuit malt (I used DWC, but you could use Briess Victory) 50 IBUs worth of Spalt hops (60 minutes) -- I think I used 3 ounces 2 liter starter of Wyeast #1338 European Ale Mash grains at 140F for 15 min, then 1.5 hours at 153F. Sparge to collect 8 gallons of runnings. Boil this down to 6.5 gallons. Add the hops. Boil 1 hour. Chill, pitch. Ferment at 65F till it's done. Bottle. Lager at 40F for a month. Notes: a little too fruity -- ferment cooler, other than that, it's VERY close to Zum Uerige. Many books, including Jackson, say that Duesseldorfer Alts are dry and not sweet. I disagree. If you look beyond the intense bitterness, you can, in fact, taste a significant amount of residual sweetness. I'm still tweaking this recipe, but it's not off by much. Al. Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL korz at pubs.att.com Copyright 1996 Al Korzonas Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 96 14:47:46 CST From: korz at pubs.ih.att.com Subject: Diacetyl and 2,3-pentanedione Bob writes about diacetyl and 2,3-pentanedione and says they both produce a buttery or butterscotch flavour/aroma. Half right... diacetyl (2,3-butanedione) is the buttery/butterscotch flavour/ aroma. 2,3-pentanedione lends a honey-like flavour/aroma to the beer. George Fix says, in his Principles of Brewing Science, that there is a Belgian beer that has a very prominent 2,3-pentanedione character, but I'm not sure which one he means... George? Anyone else? I've smelled this in some homebrews and a handful of commercial beers, but I am curious which one George is thinking of... he makes it sounds as if it's a defining character of this beer. Al. Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL korz at pubs.att.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 19:00:09 -0500 (EST) From: Tidmarsh Major <tmajor at parallel.park.uga.edu> Subject: Brewing Terms In HBD #1976, Bob Bloodworth writes: > Interesting watching how the german language changes in the hands of english > speaking brewers. > > Malz became malt > > maischen became mashing > > Wuerze became wort > > Cheers, > Bob Bloodworth > Koeln It is also interesting to note that these terms show up at the earliest stages of the English language, being attested as "maesc" (pronounced "mash"), "wyrt" (pronounced like "wort" in New English), and the compound "maescwyrt" by at least 900 AD in Old English. Ah, brewing, the Germanic tradition that predates the development of the modern Germanic languages from common Germanic! Tacitus notes the predilection of the ancient Germans for fermented malt beverages in 300 AD in _Germania_. Waes Hael, Tidmarsh Major tmajor at parallel.park.uga.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 1996 19:53:35 -0500 From: Kelly Heflin <kheflin at monmouth.com> Subject: Reusing Yeast I want to try to save some yeast and reuse it in about a month. I was given some advice today, just want to check it with everyone. I siphoned the beer out of the primary into secondary. I poured about 12 ounces of the "stuff on the bottom" into a sterilized bottle about 25 oz. Put a bubble airlock on it and put it in the fridge. I plan on boiling about a 1.040 gravity wort of DME and pouring it onto the stuff after it cools and hope it comes to life. Will this work? It's a Wyeast Munich Lager. Thanks to everyone for straightening out my yeild question. We're gonna say I got a 27-28 yeild for my last batch, I'm happy with that. thanks kelly Kelly C. Heflin kheflin at monmouth.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 21:33:34 -0500 From: Mcgregap at aol.com Subject: Vinyl Tubing Film Hi All, I have noticed that my new vinyl tubing forms a thin film after soaking in a bleach solution. The film rubs off with little effort, but is on the inside and outside of the tubing. I usually soak my brewing items in a bleach solution of _only_ 1 tablespoon (1/2 fluid ounce) for 5 gallons. That said, I do have an older piece that I have used for the past year that can soak without forming any film, but I figured that after a year or so, I ought to replace it with a new one. Maybe I won't. I used to use B-Brite to sanitize my equipment, but due to economics and convenience of supplies, switched to bleach. The tubing was bought at the same local hardware store. I later bought some tubing at the local homebrew store, and it also formed the film. Is this just some material property of vinyl that wears off after time? BTW, it does not happen with Iodophor. Any advice or info? TIA Hoppy Brewing, Art McGregor Day: mcgregap at acq.osd.mil Evening: mcgregap at aol.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 21:48:52 -0500 From: Mcgregap at aol.com Subject: Cornelius Kegs Systems Hey everyone! I'm going to be buying a cornelius kegging system in the next few weeks and would like to know which is better, the pin-lock or the ball-lock version. Right now I'm leaning toward the ball- lock beacause they might be easier to connect and move the tubes on the kegs once in the fridge, and the kegs are smaller in height and therefore easier to clean dow to the bottom. This true? Where are good sources (low prices, but good quality) e.g. St Patricks, Amber Waves, Besco, Sabco, etc. ? Are two guage regulators better than single guage? Do all regulators come with check valves? Anything else I should have asked, but didn't? TIA Hoppy Brewing, Art McGregor Day: mcgregap at acq.osd.mil Evening: mcgregap at aol.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 21:46:39 -0500 From: troat at one.net (Todd W. Roat) Subject: Easy, Delicious Old Ale recipe for ya' Well, since the recipes have been disseminating insidiously on the HBD I couldnt resist posting me favorite (brewed every other batch). Most of the recipe was crafted by GlynnB from aol.com (forget his real name)....Thanks GlynnB! DESCRIPTION: Clean tasting Brown ale with great body, great head retension which settles like a good old ale after about 20 minutes, bready/yeasty mouth-feel, plenty of malt flavor and not as bitter as the hop schedule would suggest (though hops are noticable). VERY satisfying. 1# British/English 2-row 1# 37-64L crystal 8# Alexanders Pale DMS (or equivalent) 2/3 cup chocolate malt 1/3 cup blackstrap molasses (mmmm) 1/2# clover honey (optional) 2 oz Kent Golding (60 minute boil) 2 oz Fuggles (15 minutes) 1 oz Hallertau - 5 minutes (aroma) 1 oz Hallertau - steep for 3 minutes with heat off (aroma) Gypsum as needed Irish moss at final 15 minutes WYeast London Ale yeast or Williams Brewing Triple Ale liquid yeast pack Gravitiesranges from 8 batches: OG (1.058 -1.064) FG (1.014-1.019) Mash grains at 148-158 degrees for 1 hour. Also works well with simple "steep in water until just before water boils method." I do a "quickie" sparge with about a gallon of 170 degree water ("quickie" meaning slowly pouring gallon of 170 deg. water over grain bag in a strainer - Sshhh, I think I heard an all-grainer gulp..:^). Bring to boil, add the extract and molasses (and honey if desired) and ....you know the rest. For a partial mash, this beer is simple and yielding. All variations have worked wonderfully (ie, with honey and without; with 8# Alexanders pale ale DMS; with 6# Williams Brewing pale DMS + 3# pale DME..etc.) Give it a try and let me know how you liked it!!!!! Email welcome. "Don't lend your hand to raise no flag atop a ship of fools." Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 1996 19:24:49 -0800 From: "Clark D. Ritchie" <ritchie at ups.edu> Subject: Canadian beer (ugh!) Jim, You say that "in Canada we don't have that problem. We already make better beer." My response to you is: where in the $%# at ! do you keep it? I am a frequent visitor to your country and, while I am admittedly enamored by both Canada's landscape and its citizens, find it damn near impossible to find a decent beer anywhere! Perhaps NS is much different than AB or BC, but out west, the beer selection is pathetic. Not only is the beer selection in the markets terrible, but the pubs don't have much to offer, either. With the exception of The Big Rock Brewery in Calgary (which has several tasty offerings), I hate to say it but Canadian beer is repulsive compared to the fine nectar of Washington and Oregon ales. Kill your TV... CDR PS - The flame lives! (or at least changes direction) Clark D. Ritchie, ritchie at ups.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 07:32:43 -0500 From: Steven.A.Smith.1 at gsfc.nasa.gov (Steven A. Smith) Subject: Lagering Process Temperatures I've been doing Ales am finally taking the plunge to do a Lager. Nothing I've read in TNJOHB or seen here on HBD goes into the target temps for the various stages of the process, e.g., pitching, primary, secondary, r&b, conditioning, long term storage. TIA, Steve Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 07:45:05 -0500 From: asteinm at pipeline.com (Art Steinmetz) Subject: SABCO RIMS I spoke to SABCO today. Seems they've modified the design of their "Brew Magic" RIMS slightly. The flexible stainless screen in the mash/lauter tun has been replaced with a perf. stainless sheet. Good move. Price remains the same: $3000. No change to the electronics. I keep asking hoping they'll add some programmability to the thing. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 09:34:56 -0500 (EST) From: Mitch Hogg <bu182 at freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Re: Clarifying Agents On Mon, 4 Mar 1996 Murray Tanner wrote: > My question...concerns clarifying beer. What,if any, agents are used for > this process, or does mash brews not require it?. If agents are > used, are they commercial products or can they be readily made > from commonly available substances. How do commercial brewers > filter and clarify their beer?. Well, Murray, if it's clarity you want, you'll have to choose from the following appetizing options: 1. Fish guts 2. Horse hooves 3. Seaweed 4. Mud 5. Little bits of plastic Honest, I'm telling you the truth. Ask anybody! Seriously, though, a good starting point in your research would be Jeff Mellem's well-researched and informative article in the winter 1995 issue of Zymurgy. I've used the stuff listed above (to be specific, that's isinglass, gelatine, Irish moss, bentonite, and polyclar) for years, but until reading this article did not know how or why they worked. Hope this helps, Mitch. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 08:54:54 -0600 From: BJFABB at ccmail.monsanto.com Subject: re:Yes, you can re-use primary trub Tam Thompson (Tamth at mail.utexas.edu) wrote "...Yes, you can re-use that primary trub. I used to do it all the time. You can usually re-use that slurry about three times before it starts to mutate too far into the unusable range. This will save you much money on Wyeast." Her assumption that rapid mutation of the yeast precludes use beyond three pitchings is misleading. Stability of yeast strains (in the absence of selection pressure) is quite variable. My experience with various Wyeast ale strains (e.g. 1056, 1007, 1098) suggests that these are all quite stable. An important point though is to avoid having an increase of other microorganisms, such as bacteria and wild yeast. Thus, one's sanitation and fermentation practices will have a major impact upon how long (how many fermentations) the yeast culture will be suitable for repitching. Tam also asked about using yeast collected from the secondary, rather than the primary. I've never had a problem using yeast from either; depending upon your brewing practices, the yeast in the secondary may be less contaminated with trub. A final note, in the interest of saving $ on yeast, I suggest that when a Wyeast smack pack is first opened, that 'glycerol stocks' are made of a portion of the culture, and frozen. These stocks can be then used to start new cultures later on. The method for doing this has been well covered in hbd, but briefly, sufficient glycerol (same as glycerin, available at the drug store) is added to the yeast culture to make a final concentration of about 20% (v/v); this need not be exact! Then freeze small quantities of this in vials. Use sterile technique, as best as you can manage! I make about 10 one ml glycerol stocks, and find that they are stable for at least two years in a standard frost-free freezer. To make up a new culture, pitch a small amount of the glycerol stock (I use the entire 1 ml) into about 25 ml of 1020-1030 SG wort; shake well to aerate, and let grow until yeast activity is observed; this might take two or three days. Then, feed the culture with more wort until you have reached your desired starter volume. The whole process typically take about a week for me, so some planning ahead is required. The advantage is that this method is VERY EASY. I use the same general technique in my lab to store both yeast and bacterial strains (though I store the stocks at -70deg.C). Cheers, Brad fabbri Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 96 09:50:53 EST From: John DeCarlo <jdecarlo at burp.org> Subject: Calories in Beer Can someone point me to information on determining the calories in a particular recipe? In particular, one question I haven't seen answered elsewhere is whether the number of calories remains constant--does the wort have more/less calories than the beer? How are the calories created/removed (in the trub?)? Does fermentation create calories as the alcohol is created? Thanks for any pointers. John DeCarlo, My views are my own Fidonet: 1:109/131 Internet: jdecarlo at burp.org Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 96 09:47:12 EST From: John DeCarlo <jdecarlo at mitre.org> Subject: Channeling One other aspect I don't fully understand is how well your lauter process works. For instance, if your setup introduces channeling naturally, stirring with a rake could result in channeling in a different part of the lauter tun, ensuring more even lautering than would otherwise be the case. What do you do if your lauter tun leaves lots of sweet grains at the sides? My first inclination would be to stir/rake the edges to get more liquid flow there. John DeCarlo, MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA--My views are my own Fidonet: 1:109/131 Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 10:05:10 -0500 From: Bill Rust <wrust at csc.com> Subject: Re: Boston Beer Bottles With regards to GSHUTELOCK at aol.com's question... >My question is does anyone know any reason I couldn't or shouldn't reuse >these "Sam Adams" bottles. Granted they are not the extra tough reusable >bottles the commercial breweries use, but they've got as much glass (and I >figure strength) as the empty bottles I'd been paying good money for. Why, Yes you can! You would be surprised what other bottles you can use. Most every one around here just goes to the liquor store and buys empty cases of Rhinelander/Buttwiper/Whatever. They come in those fabulous waxed cardboard flip-top cases that you can store your carbonating beer in. The only thing you have to make sure of is that they are long-necks (returnable). You might also try bars/bowling alleys/VFW hall/etc. Typical price is around $1.50/case with the cardboard case! Of course, your mileage may vary... -------------------------------------------------------- Bill Rust, Master Brewer | Jazz is not dead, Jack Pine Savage Brewery | it just smells funny! Shiloh, IL (NACE) | -FRANK ZAPPA -------------------------------------------------------- Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 1996 09:40:50 -0600 From: djones at iex.com (Douglas R. Jones) Subject: Re: Boston Beer Bottles >My question is does anyone know any reason I couldn't or shouldn't reuse >these "Sam Adams" bottles. Granted they are not the extra tough reusable >bottles the commercial breweries use, but they've got as much glass (and I >figure strength) as the empty bottles I'd been paying good money for. > Stacked up with the new bottles I can't even tell the two apart (shape or >weight). By the way, good old inexpensive "Arm & Hammer" washing soda (aka >extremely overpriced "B-Brite") even soaked off the resistent "Sam Adams" > foil labels in under 30 minutes. 50% of my bottles are Sam Adams bottles. The other 50% are from the Celis Brewery. I have had no real problems. In 2 years I have had a couple of bottles fail when either opening or capping them. Not enough to make me worry about it! Doug - -------------------------------------------------- 'I am a traveler of | Douglas R. Jones both Time and Space' | IEX Corporation Led Zeppelin | (214)301-1307 | djones at iex.com - -------------------------------------------------- Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 09:57:22 -0500 From: KennyEddy at aol.com Subject: Chili Spiciness / Same As It Ever Was /Glenn's Recipe Post! Carl Howes says: > My experience with spicy foods is that microwave heating intensifies the > spiciness, sometimes a LOT. Not necessarily a bad thing, but definitely > one to be aware of. I'll let a biochemist take a shot at why this > happens. I know that *freezing* chili salsa that my wife and I make each year also intensifies the spiciness. I'm not a biochemist, nor do I play one on TV, but the urban myth goes something like, it has to do with cells or some other structure "bursting" under thermal stress and releasing more hot stuff to the surroundings. Maybe, amybe not, but whatever the mechanism, it happens. George Shutelock says: > I know were not supposed to use "non-returnable" bottles...I was looking at the empty >bottle and didn't find the usual "NO RETURN/REFILL" statement. The point is not to use *twist-off* bottles because the caps don't seal well. If they use crimp-on crown caps, they should be reusable as homebrew bottles. I have known several people to twist-offs successfully, so who knows. I have heard, though, that certain "brand" bottles (Molson or Moosehead if I remember right) are very thin and can break under the pressure of capping. Maybe another underhanded ploy by Jim Koch to keep inferior homebrew out of bottles with his labels on them... ******************** Pierre Jelenc answered my question about "new" Clorox, that the "old" stuff "always" did what the "new" stuff does "new" (WHAT???). OK. Maybe the fine folks at Clorox put the NEW AND IMPROVED label and biodegradation info on the old stuff, to placate concerned homebrewers? ******************** Glenn Raudins writes: > Here is the info I have been able to collect on Portland Brewing's > MacTarnahan's Ale (without actually venturing up there.) Glenn: did you just post a RECIPE? :-{)} ******************************* "We expect them [Salvadoran officials] to work toward the elimination of human rights." -- VP Dan Quayle Ken Schwartz KennyEddy at aol.com Return to table of contents
Date: 06 Mar 1996 10:27:10 GMT From: "Peter Rust" <NOTES.PRUST at A50VM1.trg.nynex.COM> Subject: NOTE 03-06-96 10:30:11 AM I am looking for advice on a problem that I am having with slow fermentation. I brew all grain ales of 1.040-1.055 sg without adjuncts. My procedure is a 122, 148-154, 168 step mash for American Ale Malt and 148-154, 168 oF mash for Pale Ale, followed by a 1 hr. boil, whirlpool, chill with a counterflow chiller to 68 oF, let stand for 1-2 hours then rack through a 1 foot long CU tube with 4 holes around the top. This aerates and creates lots of foam. I then pitch the yeast which is a Wyeast variety (usually American, London or Irish Ale) that has been stepped up to 500 ml. Fermentation starts within 12-24 hours and I get a large yeast cake at the top of the wort. My problem is that my primary ferment lasts about 2 weeks before the fermentation settles down. I ferment at 65 oF. Once active fermentation has slowed, I transfer to the secondary for another 1-2 weeks. I use a blow off tube but never get active enough fermentation to cause any blow off. I am planning to obtain an "Oxygenator" O2 cylinder and stone to see if additional O2 might speed up the process. Any thoughts would be appreciated. You can EMail or Post to the Digest. Thanks. Pete Rust Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 09:15:54 -0800 (PST) From: raudins at lightscape.com (Glenn Raudins) Subject: Recipes in the Digest; Egyptian Beers Just to end this thread I started before it gets to wasting too much bandwidth. 1. Dave Ebert, attributed a quote to me that was actually Eric Miller's. Check issue 1972 for the original posting about our lack of recipes. I completely agree with your comments though. 2. In #1976, Dave Draper states with respect to geology and recipe posting "Obviously, both kinds of work are important and useful". Having been reading HBD since around issue 700, I'm typically lean more towards the technology section of the matter. In this case, I was simply raising the issue that we weren't getting much of a representation from one of the many areas that make HBD as valuable as it is. The beauty of democracy, add to the pot what you would like to see, and scroll past that which you don't care to read. (We all have issues that are of no interest to us.) - -- Any recommendations on beers/breweries to look for while vacationing in Egypt?!? Glenn Return to table of contents