HOMEBREW Digest #1980 Sat 09 March 1996
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FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Yeast Mutation (Lorne P. Franklin)
phenolic (Jerry Lee)
copyright (Robert Rogers)
MacTarnahan's Ale ("Dave Hinkle")
stuck porter sparge (Peter D Breil)
Diacetyl is a chemical (Steve Adams)
channeling, why not? (Kelly Heflin)
at least it's short... (Andy Walsh)
("n43a")
first wort hopping (Jim Dipalma)
subscription (SSparks204)
Elrician help needed! (The Old Fogy)
Splitting the Process (Chuck)
phosporic & lactic acids (Dave Whitman)
Recipe Scaling (Tim Laatsch)
IR/Pumps/H3PO4/N2/C./Stout/Ion Xchange (A. J. deLange)
Black Mac (Eugene Sonn)
Flaked barley/stuck mash (Jim Busch)
Iodophor (Michael T. Bell)
Recipes, recipes ("Taber, Bruce")
HBD on Solaris (guym)
Re: Cheap Bottles (Michael K. Cinibulk)
Hart Brewing Wheat Beers (Michael K. Cinibulk)
104F Rest (Rob Reed)
Addendum to Solvent stuff (Zucchini Dave)
mini-keg questions (Julio Canseco)
Wyeast 1272 (WattsBrew)
Really Dirty Carboys (Jeff Smith)
Foam control (Paul.Lambie)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 12:31:28 -0400
From: lachina at interramp.com (Lorne P. Franklin)
Subject: Yeast Mutation
Tam Thompson writes, ". . . You can usually re-use that slurry about three
times before it starts to mutate too far into the unusable range. . . ."
I've read this assertion in many places and am wondering if anyone can
profile the flavor, bahvior, or appearance of "mutated" brewers yeast.
I've never used yeast beyond the third generation, but am curious of the
potential problems involved with "inbred" yeast.
Thanks a lot.
L o r n e F r a n k l i n
Lachina Publishing Services
t. 216.292.7959 - f. 216.292.3639
lachina at interramp.com
Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 09:52:03 -0800
From: jlee at esd.ray.com (Jerry Lee)
Subject: phenolic
Well the beer from hell has given it's last act of
defiance...It has developed a definite phenolic
aroma & flavor....could the contamination occured
during the foaming filter I brought up just a
few files back...or is this more of case of
sanitation error during fermentation? Could open
fermentation been the cause? After all the claims
that this wasn't a problem in open fermentation...
So much for following the consensus...On top of the
phenolic (bandaid like) aroma & underlying flavor, I
pick up a hint of rubber too...arrrrgh....
A.J. a little help....this was supposed to be an
ESB and I got the malt profile and color right on...
the hop was just a touch too low but it was definitely
too low on the minerals....
My water is run through a water softner, then a
reverse osmosis, then a charcoal filter....ph around 7.
I add latic acid and calcium carbonate to balance
the sparge water and mash around 5.3. Like I said, the
attenuated hop and the initial front end flavor was
lacking the mineral effects...but how much mineral and type
do I add? You've lost me on several of your threads and
I need a reference that I can take my time studying...
any suggestions? What type of water test kits do you
recommend if I want to take complete control of the
situation without the approximations of just add a little
of this or that.
I intend to try it again, with closed fermentation, on
the 17th. TIA
=====================================================
~~~~~ / \
//\\\\\ / Jerry D. Lee, Jr. | SEPG Methods & Tools Chairman /
{| ~ ~ |} / E-Systems /Raytheon | E-Mail : jlee at eng.esd.ray.com \
| ^ | / One So. Los Carneros | Tel : 805-967-5511 ext2306 \
\ = / \ Goleta, CA 93117-5597 | Fax : 805-964-9185 _/
--/\-/\-- \ \
\/^\/ \+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=|
Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 13:02:56 -0500
From: bob at carol.net (Robert Rogers)
Subject: copyright
there has been some recent discussion of copyright, but here is a summary:
if you write something, you have a copyright on it.
you cannot copyright facts
thus, if someone were to take HBD and put it on a cd and sell it, they would
be violating all of our copyrights (even if we don't care).
OTOH: if they take all the facts presented here and publish them, there
would be no problem.
there are a wealth of copyright resources on the net if you want more details.
bob rogers, bob at carol.net
Return to table of contents
Date: 06 Mar 1996 10:22:16 -0700
From: "Dave Hinkle" <Dave.Hinkle at aexp.com>
Subject: MacTarnahan's Ale
Glenn wrote:
>Here is the info I have been able to collect on Portland Brewing's
>MacTarnahan's Ale (without actually venturing up there.)
>
<snip>
> IBU: 40
<snip>
>
>From the IBU measurement (thank you Portland Brewing), we can compute the
>hop additions based on each person's favorite utilization numbers and
>formula.
>Obviously, a guess will have to be made on the grist ratios and probably
>use Wyeast's Scotch Ale strain for a lack of any other info/source.
>
>Sources: Martin Wilde (thanks), and Portland Brewing's Web Page.
I'm a bit skeptical about the IBU measurement you were given. It seems way
too high to me. Did Portland actually measure it, or just estimate it? I
would have
guessed it to be around 20-25 at most. But then again, there is a lot of
sweetness
that would offset the reported high IBUs, and I am not an "expert" at beer
judging, but I'm in heavy training ;-). Also, for the yeast, MacT's, IMO, is
on the
"clean" side as far as Scottish goes, so I'd venture a guess they use something
similar to Wyeast British (or even Chico Ale?). The Wyeast Scottish Ale yeast
is on the more "complex" side of the scale so I don't think you'd get the same
effect as MacT's. I also would guess American 2-row as the base rather than
English pale, maybe 6-7 lbs, plus about 2 lbs of fairly light crystal malts for
a 5
gallon batch. Like I said, I don't find it to be a very complex taste, so I
would
expect a fairly simple list of ingredients.
Dave H.
Phoenix, AZ
Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 14:22:13 -0500 (EST)
From: Peter D Breil <breil+ at pitt.edu>
Subject: stuck porter sparge
In HBD #1977, James Glenn writes that the fermentation of his modified
porter stuck after 1.5 days, after dropping from about 1.070 to 1.032.
Unfortunately I don't have an answer to why it stuck, but find a couple
of _remarkable_ parallels.
Two weekends ago I brewed an all-grain porter with an S.G. of 1.060
and got it going in the primary with Wyeast 1098, London Ale, pitched
from a 1 quart starter after aerating as usual with an aquarium pump. The
fermentation was very vigorous for about 2 days, then COMPLETELY stopped.
Gravity is 1.024. The grain bill is not such that there should be that
many unfermentable sugars. I've tried rousing the yeast repeatedly - no
effect. I tried adding a rehydated pack of Edme yeast - no effect. I
tried racking to a secondary last night, re-aerating (whimper) and adding
a 1/2 cup of corn sugar dissolved in boiling water - no effect. What is
going on here? In 30 batches, I've never had a really stuck sparge
before.
But wait, it gets more weird. A friend brewed the _same_ recipe from
Terry foster's Porter book 2 days later. He has had sucess with the
recipe before. He pitched a Brewtek Ale yeast directly from a stout that
he was finishing up. His S.G. = 1.070 (his system is more efficient).
He had a VERY vigorous fermentation for 2-3 days, then his slowed to
almost a standstill and a gravity of of 1.035. Coincidence?
Oddly enough, we are in Pittsburgh and James is not too far away. Have
we experienced a tear in the time-yeast continuum? Do we have lemming yeast?
Any suggestions as to the cause of these mass die-outs of porter
yeasties would be appreciated.
TIA,
Pete
Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 96 16:09:09 est
From: paa3765 at dpsc.dla.mil (Steve Adams)
Subject: Diacetyl is a chemical
Guys:
While there is no obvious route for converting (no puns intended) diacetyl
(diacetylic?) from a noun to an adjective, one of the great strengths of
English is its flexibility. Words that start out as one part of speech are
often adapted to function as others. Remember, language is a living, evolving
thing. Many English nouns can be used as adjectives without changing form at
all. Sometimes a new noun becomes a verb. (For instance, you may write a
critique on a particular beer; critique, strictly speaking, is a noun, but only
the stodgiest of grammarians would even know to object to the sentence, "You
critiqued the beer." ) You can't stop this process. So if enough brewers
and beer judges say that a beer has a "diacetyl flavor," who is to say that
the word isn't an adjective? Moreover, I know that I've personally diacetyled
(diacetylled for you Brits) several of my ales by fermenting them at 75 F. For
those of you who object to this thread as being off topic, knowing the jargon
of any trade is important in its practice. Sometimes we hombrewers operate in
a language vacuum, and it's hard to figure out the lingo. I wonder how many
new words have entered the language as a result of homebrewing? Back to the
kettle; I'm about to boil over with all of this excitement.
Later,
Stein
Subject: Diacetyl - it is really a noun!
OOH! OOH! I know this one!
Bob McCowan <bob.mccowan at cfrp.varian.com> wrote:
>We brewers tend to use the term diacetyl as a noun, but from the structure
>of the word it looks like an adjective. Is it really a noun, or are we just
>trashing ( turning a noun into a verb) the language? If it's an adjective,
>then diacetyl what?
Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 1996 17:43:02 -0500
From: Kelly Heflin <kheflin at monmouth.com>
Subject: channeling, why not?
All right, whats wrong with just stopping the flow for a second,
mixing the grain bed ...real well... and then proceeding, knowing
you are getting a consistent and well mixed sample.
Please excuse me for sounding abrupt.
What is a "clear runoff"? clear of what. I hope we're not talking
about clear color, and then what would be wrong with some grains
mixed into your boilpot?
Go easy, I'm only 3 batches into this all grain thing.
Oh. will my bock beer 1.07 og. be any good if it stops at 1.025?
If not what can I do. I wanted a sweet malty beer but its real sweet.
thanks
Kelly C. Heflin
kheflin at monmouth.com
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 1996 10:01:16 +1000
From: Andy Walsh <awalsh at crl.com.au>
Subject: at least it's short...
Al K. writes,
>I've always wanted to be quoted by an Australian, and I think that
>this may be my chance...
There now, aren't I a considerate person?
- --
Andrew Walsh CHAD Research Laboratories
Phone (61 2) 212 6333 5/57 Foveaux Street
Fax (61 2) 212 1336 Surry Hills. NSW. 2010
email awalsh at crl.com.au Australia.
Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 96 15:12:41 PST
From: "n43a" <n43a at cnsp-emh.san.mrms.navy.mil>
Subject:
On:
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 23:26:39 -0500
From: GSHUTELOCK at aol.com
Subject: Boston Beer Bottles
I know were not supposed to use "non-returnable" bottles for our
homebrews <snip>... used to buy my 12 oz bottles from my local brew
store (about $ 9.95 and tax for a case of new empties)...<snip>
My question is does anyone know any reason I couldn't or shouldn't
reuse these "Sam Adams" bottles. Granted they are not the extra tough
reusable bottles the commercial breweries use, but they've got as much
glass (and I figure strength) as the empty bottles I'd been paying
good money for. Stacked up with the new bottles I can't even tell the
two apart (shape or weight). <snip>
Under no circumstances should non-returnable bottles be used by
homebrewers. This prohibition is found in the same volume of laws
which includes the prohibition on the removal of manufacturers tags
from furniture and mattresses. You may avoid prosecution by shipping
full bottles, via UPS, to me.
Actually, where do you think that most of us homebrewers get our
bottles...by commercial beer (quality stuff) drink the beer and use
the bottle for even better stuff. Collecting bottle in this manner
provides the drinker/homebrewer with an opportunity to evaluate if a
craft brewer has sold out to crass commercial interests...i.e., Pete's
Wicked products used to be available in NON-twist off caps. Pacifico
bottles are really nice, too.
John Kneipp
Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 96 10:26:45 EST
From: dipalma at sky.com (Jim Dipalma)
Subject: first wort hopping
Hi All,
A few months back, George Fix posted here regarding a procedure called
first wort hopping. I don't recall the digest# in which his post appeared,
but the gist of it was that superior hop flavor and aroma could be achieved
by adding a small quantity of hops to the kettle during sparging. The
aromatic compounds in the hops bind with wort constituents, survive the boil,
and result in cleaner hop flavor and aroma than that obtained with late hop
additions. As I recall, Dr. Fix's data was preliminary, and he did not offer
much in the way of practical suggestions as to how to do this on a homebrewing
scale.
About 2 months ago, I brewed an altbier with one of my brewing buddies
(hi Scott!). I had just read Dr. Fix's post, and was interested in this
procedure. We added 1/4 ounce of fresh German Hallertaur leaf to the kettle
at the beginning of the sparge, and left it in for the duration of the sparge,
about 90 minutes (this was a 10 gallon batch). As the sparge progressed, we
could smell the hop aroma coming out of the kettle. Once the boil was started,
I figured out the IBU contribution from the 1/4 oz of hops, and subtracted
that from the total IBU target. My reasoning was that the iso-alpha acids
that contribute hop bitterness are extracted by boiling, so the 90 minute
steeping should have no impact on iso-alpha acids contribution - it was
essentially the same as adding the 1/4 oz at the beginning of the boil. I
added enough additional German Hallertaur to get to the target of 40 IBUs,
but did no late additions at all. According to conventional brewing wisdom,
the beer should have ended up with little or no hop flavor.
This past weekend, I tapped the alt after a period of several weeks of
cold conditioning. The beer is not going to win any prizes, it's a little
estery, not a good thing at all for an alt. This was the result of letting
the fermentation temperature creep into the high 60s with a strain of yeast I
was using for the first time, and now realize is somewhat thermophobic. The
hop flavor, however, is absolutely wonderful!! Pronounced, but exceedingly
clean, none of the harsh, resinous notes I generally find with high levels
of hop flavor produced by late additions.
Also this past weekend, I brewed an IPA, this time adding 1/4 oz of Fuggles
to the kettle at the beginning of the sparge. I won't know for a couple of
weeks how this will turn out, but based on my experience with the alt, I have
high expectations for this batch. I'll post the results in a couple weeks time.
I urge other homebrewers to try this procedure the next time you're brewing
a beer that calls for a lot of hop flavor. Use a small amount of hops - I got
a lot of hop flavor in the alt with just 1/4 oz. When calculating hop
bitterness, treat the amount of hops used for first wort hopping as an addition
at 60 minutes - the alt's bitterness level was pretty much on target.
Cheers,
Jim dipalma at sky.com
Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 21:26:26 -0500
From: SSparks204 at aol.com
Subject: subscription
Please Suscribe me to your list.
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 01:11:08 -0800 (PST)
From: The Old Fogy <mimosa19 at idt.liberty.com>
Subject: Elrician help needed!
Here is a problem that if solved will make someone a hero to electric
stove top brewers.
Thanks to installation ideas from Ron LaBorde (rlabor at lsumc.edu) It's
a simple matter to fit a 3000w 220V water heater element ($8.00) into
a 6 gallon plastic brew kettle ($8.50) attach a 220V capacity electric
cord ($4.95) and then plug it in.
One problem ... There are some apartment 220V stoves that are so snug
in their installation that there is no access to the 220V outlet. I
looked at mine and there is a heavy duty panel covering up the access
to the 220V plug.
After realizing how easy it is to slip one of the coiled burners in and
out of the stovetop for cleaning purposes, it dawned on me there must
be a way to make a plug to fit into the same receptacle. This would
give you access to a 220V line. In addition, you would have complete
boiling control from the temperature controls on the front of the
stove!
This would give a brewer forced to do electric stovetop brewing, a less
than $25 6 gallon brew pot or for a little more money a 33 quart
ceramic on steel electric cooker! This is a less than 30 minutes for a
full 5 gallon boil with temperature control!!!
Is my lack of electrical knowledge making me miss something here ...
or is my idea workable?
Please e-mail any ideas and/or suggestions and I will compile all
suggestions.
\\\///
/ _ _ \
(| (.)(.) |)
|------oOOo--()--oOOo------|
| |
| The Old Fogy! |
Bob "The Frantic Fermenter" | mimosa19 at idt.liberty.com |
| |
Keeper of the sacred cultures | still trying to |
| hang in there |
| 5 gallons at |
| a time |
| |
|--------.oooO-------------|
( ) Oooo.
\ ( ( )
\_) ) /
(_/
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Date: Thu, 07 Mar 1996 07:49:52 -0500
From: pittprog at usaor.net (Chuck)
Subject: Splitting the Process
Esteemed collegues,
Due to the length of time it takes me to perform the
entire brewing process (from mashing to pitching),
I am considering breaking the process into 2 steps.
Mashing on one day, and boiling the next. I was
wondering if anyone has had any experience
with such a procedure andwhat (if any) problems
should I watch out for.
TIA.
Bob.
- --
Registered ICC User
check out http://www.usefulware.com/~jfoltz
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 08:06:55 -0500
From: dwhitman at rohmhaas.com (Dave Whitman)
Subject: phosporic & lactic acids
In HBD #1977, Jay Reeves (jay at ro.com) asks:
>Can the HBD resident chemist (or any one else) tell me why
>you should use lactic acid to drop the mash pH as opposed
>to using phosphoric acid? I know about using salts for
>mash adjustments. I currently use phosphoric acid to
>acidify the sparge water, but why only lactic in the mash?
I see no special reason to prefer one of these acids over the other for
simple acidification purposes. Both are safe as food additives, and at low
use levels, neither will impart a significant flavor.
FWIW, I use lactic acid to acidify my SPARGE water. (I end up using 1/8
tsp of 85% lactic acid per 5 gallon batch). If you need to adjust the pH
of your mash, I'd consider adding calcium ions to your water. The buffer
capacity of your grains is high enough that I'd worry about needing to add
so much mineral acid that the flavor would become perceptable.
- ---
Dave Whitman
Rohm and Haas Specialty Materials
dwhitman at rohmhaas.com
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 1996 08:33:00 -0500 (EST)
From: Tim Laatsch <LAATSCH at kbs.msu.edu>
Subject: Recipe Scaling
Hello Everyone,
I would like to hear from those brewers who have made the jump
to the professional ranks. (I know, they're probably all too
busy to read the HBD anymore!---Kinney, are you out there
lurking? Anybody else?) Specifically, I'm interested in the
dynamics of recipe scaling. I've often heard that recipes
do not scale-up linearly. Is this the case, and if so, what
considerations must be made when scaling up a recipe from 5
gallons to 10 gal to 1/2 bbl to bbl to 10 bbl to 25 bbl? Where
along the curve does linearity break down? Are lower
proportions of caramel and roasted malts required for the
same flavor and color effects? Are hop utilization rates
affected at all by batch size? What about hop flavor and aroma
characteristics? This may not be of interest to the list at
large, so private email is welcome and I will post a summary if
interest warrants. Thanks in advance for any insights.
Tim
************************************************************************
| Timothy P. Laatsch | laatsch at kbs.msu.edu |
| Microbial Ecology Grad | Head Brewer, Spruce Grove Nanobrewery |
| Michigan State Univ/KBS | Check out my homebrewing page on the Web! |
| Kalamazoo, MI | http://kbs.msu.edu/~laatsch/beerhome.html |
*************************************************************************
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 09:50:47 -0500
From: ajdel at interramp.com (A. J. deLange)
Subject: IR/Pumps/H3PO4/N2/C./Stout/Ion Xchange
In #1977 Tom Penn asked about applications for IR technology in brewing.
None come to mind. At slightly shorter wavelengths, i.e. the visible, there
are lots of applications in colorimetric analyses of things like beer color
(which includes a turbidity check at 700 some nm) and brewing water ion
content.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Terence Tegner asked about pumps (also in #1977). Heat, resistance to
corrosion sanitation and the ability to exclude air are the big three in
brewing. Which from this set are required depends on the application.
Pumping hot wort requires the first two and pumping fermented beer the
latter two. Widest application is realized with the ceramic impeller
magnetically coupled pumps as these have all the desired properties. They
tend, of course, to be expensive (around $125 US for 1/25 HP units).
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Jay Reeves wants to know (#1977) why no one uses phosphoric acid for mash
pH adjustment. Well some people do and there really isn't any reason not to
except that it is nasty stuff to handle (relative to lactic acid) and a
little more difficult to come by. The hazardous nature of it means you pay
an extra $7 to the shipper. There is the possibility that a small amount of
calcium will be precipitated as the phosphate but at proper mash pH this
shouldn't be noticeable and this is going on anyway due to phosphate in the
malt. Phosphate should be more flavor neutral than lactate.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
David Raitt (#1977) proposes cooling wort with liquid nitrogen. The problem
is that the nitogen will be immediately vaporized and this will not remove
much heat. The enthalpy of vaporization for nitrogen is 47 calories per
killogram. To cool 1 killogram of water from boiling to room temperature
requires 80 calories so that cooling 5 gallons of wort would take 32 kg of
liquid nitrogen. In doing this rough calculation I assume that the gas
phase would be pretty useless at removing heat. A lot of gas would be
produced (25600 litres or 14 litres per second if the cooling took place
over half an hour). How is the liquid to be delivered to the brewery. In a
Dewar flask? Who is paying for this? Seems to me that plain old water is a
much better choice.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
As two people have commented on the nature of radicals I figure I had
better acknowledge that I was sloppy about CH3CO-. It is sometimes written
this way where the - really symolizes the bond (i.e. a pair of electrons)
as in
H O
| ||
H-C-C-OH
|
H
Even so the radical does not have a net negative charge. (Rather to the
contrary in acetyl chloride it looks more like a cation than an anion.) The
"proper" way to write the radical is with a small dot next to the carbon (
CH3OC.) with the dot representing the unpaired electron which will
participate in bond formation.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Mike Dowd asked about the latest Classic Beer Styles offering. "Stout" by
Michae Lewis is in the catalog insert in the latest Zymurgy.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
The total ion exchange approach is not out of the question for home
brewers. Cole Parmer sells ion exchange cartridges intended for laboratory
use for (I'm guessing) around $45. A pair of these is typically put into
tandem with the first depending on the properties of your tap water and the
second being a final cleanup. A mounting bracket is available for $50-60
which includes a valve and some tubing so you are pretty much set up for
about $150. The amount of water you can process through these cartridges
before they are exhausted depends on the mineral content of your water and
the resin turns color as the exchange takes place. When the cartride color
is competely changed, swap it out. The flow rate is modest but much faster
than a Brita so you will need something to collect water in (carboys?) over
a period of time before you brew.I own stock in Cole-Parmer and make money
on every cartrige they sell so I would encourage all readers of this digest
to go out and buy as many cartridges as they can possibly afford to
enrichen me further. As the water from these cartriges will put a spring in
your step and lead in your pencil (plus growing hair on bald heads) I'm
sure that you will want to make all kinds of sacrifices in order to obtain
these cartriges. Write to your senator and tell him that they will remove
lead from ghetto water. This aside, David Muzidal and Ian Smiley are
innocent of the stain of sin which sullies me. I've been corrsesponding
with Dave (and others) on this subject since, I think, November.
(Appologies to Cole Parmer. The product does produce water with
resistivities in the megohms).
A.J. deLange Numquam in dubio, saepe in errore!
ajdel at interramp.com
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Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 08:40:36 -0500 (EST)
From: Eugene Sonn <eugene at future.dreamscape.com>
Subject: Black Mac
Greetings HBDers and especially those in New Zealand,
My father just returned from a vacation in New Zealand and was
talking about a dark ale called Black Mac. He liked it quite a bit and
I'm interested in cloning it. Anyone out there...especially those in New
Zealand.....have a clone of this beer. I've never tasted it, but since
I'm trying to encourage a taste for good beer in my dad, it would be
appreciated.
Eugene Sonn
eugene at future.dreamscape.com
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Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 09:47:45 -0500 (EST)
From: Jim Busch <busch at eosdev2.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Flaked barley/stuck mash
Mike reports about using flaked barley:
<I made another stout recently in which I used flaked barley, as I did with
<the RIS. I also used the George Fix mashing schedule (as I did with the
<RIS), mashing in at 104 F, then skipping the protein rest. Once again, my
<sparge stuck like molasses.
<My theory, then,
<(admittedly, based on a pretty small N) is that the 104 F rest is not good
<for grain bills containing flaked barley. Perhaps resting at this temp
<gelatinizes the flaked barley, turning it into a gooey, gummy mess that
<increases wort viscosity, making sparging difficult.
Well, I have not brewed my 25% flaked barley stout yet but Ive been
looking into this and getting a lot of feedback from others who have
done this. Some report no problems with a single infusion mash while
others have had serious lautering problems. Some report that the
beta glucan rest at 104F plus protein rests are mandatory but I
suspect this is not done at Guinness (the pale ale malt would have
little beta glucanase left). Since one of my goals is maximum attenuation,
and I would like to be able to lauter this stuff, Im going to use
a 40/50/60/70C mash program. Ill let you know how it works.
Jim Busch
A Victory For Your Taste!
Festbier, Lager and IPA
and Pils, and Mild, and Doppelbock
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Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 09:20:14 -0500
From: mikeb at flash.net (Michael T. Bell)
Subject: Iodophor
Howdy,
One quick question. What is the proper dilution rate of Iodophor?
I have read that the optimum is 25ppm. That works out roughly to 1oz per 6
gal. In this concentration, it stains my hoses a nice shade of light
brown, lovely but annoying. Is this to high? If it is, what is the proper
ppm?
-mtb
beer is good food
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Date: Thu, 07 Mar 96 10:17:00 EST
From: "Taber, Bruce" <BRUCE.TABER at NRC.CA>
Subject: Recipes, recipes
Here's my contribution to the "more recipes on the HBD" thread. I've
never posted a recipe before. Hey, maybe I'll make it into Cat's Meow 4.
I'll give two recipes I use. One is all-grain, the other is extract.
#1 Oatmeal Stout (all-grain)
This is one of my favorites. It is very dark and rich with a beautiful
brown head. If you like dark beers but aren't too fussy on the harsh
flavors of some stouts, then this is for you. The oatmeal adds a smooth
richness to the stout making it taste like one more.
5 gal. US (19 liters)
5.5 lbs 2 row malted barely (2.5 kg)
1.0 lbs 1 minute oatmeal (500g)
1.0 lbs roasted barely (500g)
1.0 lbs chocolate malt (500g)
1.0 oz Fuggle hops - 60 min. (30g)
1.0 oz Golding hops - 30 min (30g)
Wyeast # 1098 British Ale OG 1.048 FG 1.018
I used a 50-65-70 (122-150-158) mash schedule and added the chocolate and
roast barely at the 70 degree step and held until conversion (about 20
min.). I won't go into my full procedure because everyone has their own
methods that they prefer.
#2 Honey Bitter (extract)
5 gal US (19 liters)
This is a real easy way to make an outstanding brew. I never thought to
combine honey with a bitter until I tasted one that a buddy made. Where the
idea came from I don't know. If you don't drink bitters, that's OK. The
residual sweetness of the honey blends beautifully with the bitterness
resulting in a rich, amber ale the goes down real easy. I've made ales with
honey before and didn't like the aftertaste, but this one has none of that.
4 lb Brewmaker Victorian Bitter kit (1.8 kg)
2.2 lbs clover honey (1.0 kg)
yeast as supplied in kit.
half of supplied yeast nutrient in primary, other half goes in secondary
15 min. boil OG 1.030 FG 1.005
I have only used this particular bitter kit but if it isn't available to you
then just try another brand and let me know what you think.
Bruce outside Ottawa
taber at irc.lan.nrc.ca
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Date: Thu, 07 Mar 96 11:29:05 MDT
From: guym at Exabyte.COM
Subject: HBD on Solaris
Al sez:
> Regarding what percentage of HBD readers use Mac and which use PC's,
> count me into those that read it on a Sun SPARCstation 4 running Solaris
> (although I do own a Pentium laptop). BRF for Solaris anyone?
Well, there you go Al. You and the Mac users will be united with the
upcoming SPARCintosh product. A bit of Apple in your Java, sir? Maybe
this should be on the Cider digest rather than the HBD.
Oh, beer reference? I just brewed an Irish stout Sunday, Guynness Stout
III, which should be kegged and ready for St. Patrick's Day. Green beer
indeed!! Humbug!
--
Guy McConnell /// Exabyte Corp. /// Huntersville, NC /// guym at exabyte.com
"And the beer I had for breakfast wasn't bad, so I had one for dessert."
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Date: Thu, 7 Mar 96 12:45:13 -0500
From: Michael K. Cinibulk <cinibumk at ml.wpafb.af.mil>
Subject: Re: Cheap Bottles
The cheapest way to aquire any type of beer bottle is to either buy it
containing its original product, or, for returnable bottles, simply stop by a
distributor (or local store) and pay a deposit for the returned empties.
You'll of course be faced with some pretty dirty bottles to clean out if you
take the latter route, but it is the cheapest way to get the heavy-duty
returnables.
Mike Cinibulk
Bellbrook, Ohio
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Date: Thu, 7 Mar 96 13:03:04 -0500
From: Michael K. Cinibulk <cinibumk at ml.wpafb.af.mil>
Subject: Hart Brewing Wheat Beers
R. Smith ....would like to know if anyone has any insight as to the
particulars of those northwest wheat beers or any recipes for clones.
I have the list of beers available from Hart Brewing and they list as
ingredients for Pyramid Wheaten Ale, Hefeweizen, and Apricot Ale:
Malts: Two-Row, Wheat, Caramel
Hops: Nugget and Perle
OG: 1.042(Wheaten), 1.045(Hefe-, Apricot)
Alcohol: 4.0 vol%
They also list Thomas Kemper Hefeweizen and Weizen Berry Lagers as having:
Malt: Two-row, Wheat
Hops: Nugget and Liberty
OG: 1.050
Alcohol: 5.0 vol%
Hope this helps
Mike Cinibulk
Bellbrook, Ohio
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Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:15:52 -0500 (EST)
From: Rob Reed <rhreed at icdc.delcoelect.com>
Subject: 104F Rest
Mike Dowd wrote: (re: flaked barley sticks sparge)
> My theory, then,
> (admittedly, based on a pretty small N) is that the 104 F rest is not
> good for grain bills containing flaked barley. Perhaps resting at this
> temp gelatinizes the flaked barley, turning it into a gooey, gummy mess
> that increases wort viscosity, making sparging difficult.
My understanding of the purpose of the 104F rest is to facilitate the
breakdown of B-glucans and other gummy carbohydrates via B-glucanase
and to liquify enzymes that will be used during later mash rests. It seems
each author suggests a different temperature ranges for optimum B-glucanase
activity.
I don't have any scientific comparison on the effectiveness of the 104F
rest, but I have found that pre-boiling flaked barley and oatmeal for
about 10-15 minutes aids conversion of these grains. Pre-boiling these
grains make them swell up BIG and when added to the mash, they seem to
disappear. I typically do a high (131F) protein rest when using
substantial amounts of these grains.
Cheers,
Rob Reed
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Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:40:34 -0700 (MST)
From: Zucchini Dave <woodstok at rupert.oscs.montana.edu>
Subject: Addendum to Solvent stuff
In HBD #1978 A.J. deLange (hope i got that right) said that a 1 molar
solution in 95% alcohol would be really nasy stuff - it is, thank
goodness, because i've never seen anything nastier on the inside of my
carboy ever before. That's why you for sure need protection (rubber
gloves and good eye protection and some cloths you don't care about).
It's sure not to be taken lightly.
Speaking of which, i may not have made it clear, but i ONLY used this for
glassware. A strongly basic solution (commercial oven cleaner or
otherwise) will do bad things to aluminum and brass (Zymurgy ,Fall
'95). And even though it's "safe" for glass, i store my NaOH in a good,
thick, leakproof plastic bottle (Nalgene (sp?) makes great wide-mouthed
bottles for this). If you let it sit in glass for long
enough it WILL start to pit the glass and slowly dissolve it.
Sorry if all this sounds scary, but my carboy looked even scarier for a
while, and it feels real good to finally get rid of the nasty stuff that
eluded me for so long using other cleaners.
One last thing: If any gets on you by accident, just rinse real well with
warm water - just like if you spill bleach on yourself by accident.
"And that's all I have to say about that..."
Dave
PS - thanks for the tip on 40 g of lye in a liter of alcohol, for some
reason it never came to mind....
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Date: Thu, 07 Mar 96 14:51:06 EST
From: Julio Canseco <JCANSECO at UGA.CC.UGA.EDU>
Subject: mini-keg questions
I have used my set of mini-kegs for the first time and I have some
questions for the cyberbrew community. I used 1/3 cup of priming
sugar and left 1 inch space at the top when filling them up. Served
the first one or two glasses with only the pressure from carbonation.
Beer seemed a little flat (it was a killian red clone). Applied some
CO2 just enough to continue dispensing. Beer had little carbonation.
When I put the mini-keg in the fridge I closed the CO2 valve.
Questions: 1) Should I have opened the valve all the way at serving?
2) Should I have applied more pressure before putting
keg away?
3) Should I have used more priming sugar?
I have read the technical info on the web regarding mini-kegs, but I
feel I may be missing something. Would appreciate any advice before
deciding against the use of mini-kegs. They sure are handy.
Posting would benefit others. TIA
julio canseco
jcanseco at uga.cc.uga.edu
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Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:23:24 -0500
From: WattsBrew at aol.com
Subject: Wyeast 1272
Has anyone used or heard about the new strains from Wyeast? I am
about to try #1272 American Ale II. I was wondering if anybody knows whose
yeast strain this is and any info about it. My homebrew shop has not yet
received any info on the new Wyeast strains called Brewer's Choice.
TIA ,
Wattsbrew (Bill Watt in Clarence Center)
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Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:03:21 -0600 (CST)
From: snsi at win.bright.net (Jeff Smith)
Subject: Really Dirty Carboys
Over last weekend I borrowed one of my father old carboys that he used for
wine making back in the '70's. Since he gave up wine making twenty some
years ago it was just a bit dusty. In fact it was so dusty that I didn't
really take note of what condition it was in.
I started my cleaning by washing the out side off with some water and
Clorox. When the carboy was clean enough to see the bottom I noticed some
smut on the bottom which I though was the lees of the last batch of wine. I
added some Clorox and started to fill up the carboy with water to soak out
what ever the smut was. Of coarse bits of smut started floating to the top.
I skimmed of flies, beetles, some bug type things wouldn't want to guess at
and something that looked like little pieces of black feathers.
Anyway I let the carboy soak for about three hours than dumped half of it
out to get my carboy brush in and scrub. As I was dumping in a spare 5
gallon bucket I missed and splashed some in tub. I stopped to clean up the
bug bodies and whatever and noticed a small off white shell. It turned out
take it wasn't exactly a shell as much as a skull. It seem that at least one
mouse maybe more finished there last days in the carboy (depositing smut
where ever they decomposed).
Any way thanks for the waste of width and remember never look in mouth of a
gift carboy.
PS I plan on soaking that puppy for while.
Jeff Smith
'71 HD Sprint 350SX
snsi at win.bright.net
Barnes, WI
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Date: Thu, 07 Mar 1996 14:01 -0800 (PST)
From: Paul.Lambie at ncal.kaiperm.org
Subject: Foam control
A query for the collective:
I have been doing my primary fermentations in plastic and would like to switch
to glass. I have a five gallon carboy and have recently seen a product called
Foam Control advertised which is said to minimize the amount of krauesen so
that nearly five gallons of beer can be fermented in a five gallon carboy
without a blow-off tube. This would eliminate loss of beer through the
blow-off and also the possibility of a blocked tube. Foam Control is said
to be non-toxic (reassuring) and to actually increase head retention of the
finished beer. Has anyone used this or know anything about it?
I have no financial interest in this product.
TIA
Paul Lambie
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