HOMEBREW Digest #1993 Mon 25 March 1996
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FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
re: Bad to be a glad plaid clad lad... (Robert Rogers)
In violation of the Reinheitsgebot ("Rick Gontarek, Ph.D.")
Cases of Quart Bottles (Steven A. Smith)
Burton Salts & Water Primer TXT File (KennyEddy)
1st wort and IBUs ("Tracy Aquilla")
Dump that batch! (NOOoooo!) (Russell Mast)
Diacetyl is a Noun! (Russell Mast)
March Hare Honey Porter? ("Robert A. Tisdale")
Yeast starters (John Wilkinson)
what's b-brite?, inter-state transport, yeast and shelf-life ("Tracy Aquilla")
URL Correction for Water Primer (KennyEddy)
oxygen barrier bags ("Todd Orjala")
Deadspace in Keg Boiler ("Christopher M. Goll")
Nebraska Red. (Bucket99)
Iodophor, PPM calculation? (Keith Chamberlin)
Re: Sam Adam's Triple Bock (tgaskell)
Re: Aluminum Kettles (Jeff Renner)
Quick fermenting barleywine (Don Claunch)
EtOH/2,3,Pentane Dione/Iron (A. J. deLange)
Fill levels and carbonation (Tom Lochtefeld (Risk Mgt))
Counterpressure bottle fillers (Carrick Legrismith)
Rob G., HBD God, amen. (Rob Lauriston)
Re: First all-grain batch, aromatic Vienna and Steam (Jim Dipalma)
Plaid! ("Rich Byrnes")
Beer Color / Iron In Water (KennyEddy)
Filtering the Survey. (Guy Mason)
Full boils... (Simonzip)
Style Faux Pas ("Palmer.John")
More on State Laws Regarding Alcohol (neumbg73)
SIGNOFF homebrwew ("Klar, Robert L.")
Las Vegas Brewpubs or Microbreweries? (kcollins)
First all-grain recipie (mikehu)
Recirculating Wort (Tim Martin)
re:Grain. Convince me. (Denis Barsalo)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 01:23:30 -0500
From: bob at carol.net (Robert Rogers)
Subject: re: Bad to be a glad plaid clad lad...
on: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 08:18:40 -0500
pat wrote:
>In HBD 1983, Domenick Venezia aptly warns brewers not to wear plaid due to
>detrimental effects observed in yeast culturing.
>. . . Worts
>fermented by all except for the hardiest Scottish Ale strains demonstrated
>signs of disfunctional yeast when exposed to various plaid patterns. Even
>Scottish strains could only tolerate the best tartans.
[snip]
oh no! what will happen to the dry stout i just brewed in my kilt?
bob rogers, bob at carol.net
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 08:55:45 +0000
From: "Rick Gontarek, Ph.D." <gontarek at fcrfv1.ncifcrf.gov>
Subject: In violation of the Reinheitsgebot
Hi All,
Every March, a bunch of us gather to celebrate the fermented
beverage we call beer by staging a beer tasting dinner. We have done
it for three years now, and it has always been a huge success. What
a wondeful way it has been to educate people about good brew.
Nothing warms my heart more than seeing a previous bud drinker start
to order Sierra Nevada at a bar!
Anyway, this year we want to try to highlight Microbrews that are in
violation of the Reinheitsgebot. You know, beers made with honey,
fruit, pumpkin, spices, chocolate, etc. I am not all that crazy
about fruit beers, but there are a few pleasant ones out there.
I have some other ideas for good commercial examples of beers made
with odd ingredients, but I was hoping to tap the collective wisdom
and ask anyone with reccomendations to email me directly. Keep in
mind that we want these to be good-tasting brews as well (we don't
want to scare away the converts!)TIA! Also, the Frederick Brewing
Company out here in Frederick, MD, makes a wonderful "Steeple Stout"
containing Rye grain. Is Rye condsidered a violation of the
Reinheitsgebot? Are any ingredients besides barley malt, water,
yeast, and hops allowed?
Thanks for the help. I raise my glass to you!!
Rick Gontarek
Owner/Brewmaster of The Major Groove Picobrewery
Frederick, MD
gontarek at fcrfv1.ncifcrf.gov
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 08:27:10 -0500
From: Steven.A.Smith.1 at gsfc.nasa.gov (Steven A. Smith)
Subject: Cases of Quart Bottles
When I started brewing a couple of years ago cases of new quart (32oz.)
bottles could be had for about the same price as the 22oz. Now I can't
find them anywhere. Does anyone know what happened to them? Does anyone
know where I can find some?
TIA,
Steve
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 10:38:30 -0500
From: KennyEddy at aol.com
Subject: Burton Salts & Water Primer TXT File
As far as 've read, it's a mixture of gypsum *sodium* chloride (table salt),
and epsom salt. I don't know the mix, but I've had success "building" an
"idealized" Burton pale ale water using five gallons of distilled water with
1 gram salt, 9 grams gypsum, 3.5 grams Epsom salt, and 1 gram baking soda.
The baking soda adds a little alkalinity to help avoid overacidification of
the mash. I hit 5.2 pH without any further adjustments so I know it's
suitable for brewing. The pail ale came out nice with accentuated and "dry"
hop bitternenss from the high sulphate content (I presume). Sulphates this
high (~340 ppm) is totally unsuitable for practically anything other than a
Burton-style ale, or other minerally ale that you want the hops to really
stand out.
I mentioned I had posted a water chemistry promer in WRI format. For the
WRI-challenged I also posted an ASCII text file at
ftp://users.aol.com/kennyeddy/water/wchemprm.txt
I included a few "water recipes"; the above Burton profile is the only one
I've personally tried but the others should yield the indicated profiles,
which were "modeled" after published information.
Ken Schwartz
KennyEddy at aol.com
"Can't act. Can't sing. Balding. Can dance a little." -- MGM exec about
Fred Astaire's screen test.
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 96 11:38:33 CST
From: "Tracy Aquilla" <aquilla at salus.med.uvm.edu>
Subject: 1st wort and IBUs
In Digest #1989:
"Dave Draper" <david.draper at mq.edu.au> wrote:
[snip nice summary of 1st wort hopping]
"But the alpha-acid quantity should *not* be reduced, even if one
gets more bitterness than one would get in the usual way."
As I mentioned previously, I think that would really depend a lot on the
particular hops being used. What if one uses high-alpha hops (e.g. Columbus,
as per George's recommendation)? In such a case, I think the IBUs might be
significantly higher than desired if the bittering contribution of the FW
hops aren't taken into account and the bittering hops aren't adjusted
accordingly.
Dave goes on to say:
"If the hops are reduced to compensate for the extra IBUs one gets from the
first-wort hops, then the whole benefit of doing it might be lost."
I think I'm getting lost here! How would the amount of bittering hops used
during the boil significantly affect the results of adding (a fraction or
all of) the aroma hops as first wort hops? It seems to me that aroma and
bitterness are two different effects of hopping and in this case, I don't
see how reducing the IBU contribution of the bittering hops would affect the
quality/quantity of the aroma produced by first wort hopping. What am I
missing here?
Finally, Dave adds:
"If I read the Brauwelt article properly,
infusion beers were the only ones being discussed."
I'm a bit surprised by this. Infusion-mashed Pilseners? No decoctions at
all? What's the world coming to!
Tracy in Vermont
aquilla at salus.med.uvm.edu
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 11:31:48 -0600
From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com>
Subject: Dump that batch! (NOOoooo!)
> From: Dan <DJTIM at delphi.com>
> Subject: Second batch gone bad?
Uh oh.
> My first batch died of a clear case of infection.
"Clear Case"??? What did it taste like? If you dumped it without tasting
it, go soak your head! It probably wasn't infected.
How many batches must die before this madness ends!
NEVER DUMP A BATCH until you taste it.
> my significant other decided to fire up
> the vacuum cleaner during the process, aaaargh).
That shouldn't hurt things much. I once dropped a spoon of questionable
cleanliness in a fermenter. The beer was fine. Some dude here shoved his
whole arm into a primary, before the yeast had gotten a start, and his beer
turned out okay.
> I have been (I believe) careful about sanitation during the whole
> process but now things don't look right. Floating on top are small (1/8"
> diameter) clumps that are clearly not CO2 bubbles. Bubbles don't have
> fuzz. In addition, there are large clumps of tannish colored material
> which I at first believed was flocculating yeast but they are not
> settling. They are in suspension and floating on top also.
Uh oh. That sounds really bad. Sounds like you have a fermenter full of
beer there. Better dump it just in case.
Seriously - it sounds fine. Beer looks funny when it ferments. You've got
live yeast in there, they do strange things. They're neither animal nor
vegetable, and yet - THEY LIVE. Swoosh your fermenter a little one night and
see how much settles by morning. Then just bottle it.
> My thoughts so far:
>
> 1. My sanitation isn't is good as I thought.
> 2. I racked too late and there wasn't enough yeast activity creating CO2...
> 3. (What I am leaning toward.) The water added to the boiled wort to ....
Try :
4. You're worrying about nothing at all.
Sorry if my tone is overly cranky. But it pains me to hear about perfectly
good beer going to waste. Also, hearing about you wasting your time worrying
when you should just chill and have fun and marvel in the delight that comes
from being a yeast rancher. (After all, you just make wort, not beer. It's
the yeast that make beer. Who's quote am I stealing, btw?)
-R
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 12:01:18 -0600
From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com>
Subject: Diacetyl is a Noun!
> From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock at oeonline.com>
> Subject: Admonishing and The Evil Advance Title List...
> *School-master rant mode activated. Please duck when necessary*
Pat, I've told you before - I am the official Homebrew Digest Thought Police.
Not you. I'm the one who tells people what they can and cannot post.
Well, not really, but I criticize posts from time to time, and that is
clearly a violation of your imaginary First Amendmendment Rights to Freedom
>From Criticism.
By the way, I've cancelled four or five posts in the past two or three
weeks, on the grounds that someone else already answered the question.
It's pretty easy to do when it takes three days for my posts to get through
after everyone else gets their shots in. (I know some of you think I should
have cancelled ALL of mine - tough.)
Read the goldarned subject list. Sometimes your post is redundant with the
freakin' subject line, for heaven sakes.
-R
Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 23:27:52 -0600
From: "Robert A. Tisdale" <rtisdale at entomology.msstate.edu>
Subject: March Hare Honey Porter?
I made this recipe up myself and I'm calling it a honey porter but I
really don't if it is or not. Maybe it's a stout. I don't know??
Does any know what kind and how much hops are in Premiere Light Malt
Extract (hopped)? It was on special at the local grocery store so I
bought some. I tasted this when I bottled and it was pretty good at
that time; I can hardly wait until it's aged a bit.
March Hare Honey Porter
6.6 lbs Premiere Light Malt Extract (hopped)
1 lb 40L crystal malt
1 lb chocolate malt
3 lbs honey
1 tbl gypsum
1 tbl yeast extract
1 oz cascade hops
WYeast American Ale #1056
3/4 cup corn sugar
I brought 1 gal of water to 170 degrees F with both speciality grains
in a muslin bag, removed from heat, and let it steep for 2 hrs. I
then sparged the grain with 1.5 gals hot water. Added all ingredients
(except the yeast and hops), brought to a boil, and let it cook for 2
hrs. Removed from heat and added hops in a boil bag. Cooled, removed
hop bag, poured to primary, brought to 6 gal volume, and added yeast at
80 degrees F.
2/16/95 O.G. 1.068
racked to secondary
2/25/96 I.G. 1.018 %OH v/v = 6.56
3/9/96 F.G. 1.016 %OH v/v = 6.83
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 10:45:15 -0600
From: John Wilkinson <jwilkins at imtn.tpd.dsccc.com>
Subject: Yeast starters
There has been some more discussion recently about yeast starters and that
has raised some questions in my mind. They may have been answered before
but it is still not clear to me.
As Russell Mast said recently, I can see why a large starter would be good
from the standpoint of staving off infection by bacteria and/or undesirable
wild yeast but why is a large starter deemed necessary for complete
fermentation? It was my understanding that inadequate aeration and
underpitching were likely causes of incomplete or stuck fermentations. If
so, why would that be? It would seem that the yeast would continue to work
as long as fermentables were present and with or without reproduction should
eventually complete the fermentation with no fermentable sugars left. What
is wrong with this scenario?
Puzzled in Grapevine, Texas
John Wilkinson
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 96 14:23:52 CST
From: "Tracy Aquilla" <aquilla at salus.med.uvm.edu>
Subject: what's b-brite?, inter-state transport, yeast and shelf-life
In Digest #1990:
lheavner at tcmail.frco.com wrote:
"What is B-Brite? Did somebody say that it was just baking soda."
The last several times I've purchased it, the ingredients weren't listed,
but I think it's a mixture of sodium carbonate and sodium silicate.
lheavner also wrote:
"I will be leaving Baja Oklahoma and heading north of the Red River for
a family reunion this summer. I plan to take a few cases of homebrew
for the relatives to try. Any laws against that??"
I think so. Technically, I think it's illegal to transport alcohol across
state lines (without the necessary paperwork), but I do it myself
occasionally and I don't think it's really anything to worry about if it's
homebrew that you made yourself.
cdp at chattanooga.net (C.D. Pritchard) wrote:
"More than a few moonshiners have blown and burned up stills..."
A relative of mine once burned down the barn doing this. The 110 proof rye
whiskey was the best I've ever tasted though. He even grew the grains
himself, double-distilled, and aged it for years in charred oak barrels. The
real thing! Too bad it's not legal. Imagine the gadgeteers on homedistillers
digest?!
Bob McCowan <bob.mccowan at cfrp.varian.com> wrote:
"A local microbrewer told me that if you filter to remove nearly all the
yeast (clearly ;) unnecessary for clear beer) you had better filter out the
bacteria as well. I don't know the required pore sizes for yeast/bacteria,
but the implication was that too fine a filter removes various body-building
components."
I think a pore size of 3-5 microns will generally remove most but not all of
the yeast. Most brewing strains average over 5 microns in diameter. If you
want to make sure there is still yeast in there, use a 5 mike filter to
'polish' the beer. To remove most of the bacteria, you really need to use
something much smaller, like about 0.2 microns (some bacteria are even
smaller than this). This will definitely remove some of the 'good stuff'
too. FWIW, I have never used fining agents nor filtered my beer and it's
almost always brilliantly clear, but I know a brewer (twice Vermont
homebrewer of the year) who filters, sometimes two or three times. I guess
maybe I should try it some time!
Bob also wrote:
"He also stated that a small amount of yeast had a stabilizing effect on the
beer. I've seen this mentioned elsewhere, but don't remember the reference."
Yeast is basically an 'oxygen sponge'. Leaving some in the beer can help
prevent oxidation and can thus contribute to stability, to a point, as the
yeast can absorb introduced oxygen from solution, preventing it from
participating in oxidation reactions.
previously, Jim Busch (I think) said:
>Beer that will be around for a extended time is best removed from the
>fermentation yeast to avoid the autolysis problem.
and Bob replied:
"Is this true if there's only a little fermentation yeast left? What's the
difference between cold conditioning and racking off the yeast sediment and
filtering and the reintroducing yeast?"
I think it's basically a trade-off. Removing the yeast can potentially
prevent the eventual formation of certain staling compounds resulting from
autolysis (mostly fatty acids and long-chain aldehydes), but leaving the
yeast can potentially prevent certain oxidation reactions, as mentioned
above. This is one of those debatable issues. Sorry, but I guess I'm
avoiding your last question. It really depends on the particular beer, how
and how long it will be stored, etc.
Tracy in Vermont
aquilla at salus.med.uvm.edu
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 16:28:19 -0500
From: KennyEddy at aol.com
Subject: URL Correction for Water Primer
If you have trouble with direct ftp of the water chemistry primer files, try
ftp://users.aol.com/kennyeddy/water
which will take you just to the directory. You should be able to
point'n'click to download the file at that point.
Sorry about any inconvenience.
Ken Schwartz
KennyEddy at aol.com
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 96 15:55:54 -0600
From: "Todd Orjala" <t-orja at maroon.tc.umn.edu>
Subject: oxygen barrier bags
I recently went to use some of my home grown Willamette
hops to dry hop a pale ale and found that they smelled
much more like (surprise) the inside of my freezer than
hops. I knew when I packed them that this was likely to
happen since I merely double packed them in standard zip
lock bags. I do not keg so I was not even able to purge
the bags with C02.
Does anyone know of a retail source of oxygen barrier
bags suitable for preserving hops? I have a vague
recollection of someone refering to resealable oxygen
barrier bags in HBD. My local retailer of choice does
not pack their own hops and was not aware of a source.
Todd Orjala
t-orja at maroon.tc.umn.edu
Minneapolis
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Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 17:35:39 -0500
From: "Christopher M. Goll" <cgoll at cc-mail.pica.army.mil>
Subject: Deadspace in Keg Boiler
Hello All,
I have a problem for which I hope the collective can provide a
solution, as well as to critique my own proposed solution:
1. My dilemma:
My brew kettle is a converted keg, with a stainless steel nipple
welded in. Connected to this is a slotted copper manifold which
(sort of) conforms to the interior circumference of the keg. It works
very well at straining out floating hop flowers and lets me drain
without disturbing the break material. However, the nipple/manifold
assembly is positioned too high and leaves at least a gallon (if not
two) of wort in the keg when I drain the cooled wort. If I tip the
keg to get more wort, the break material comes with it.
How would you solve this problem?
2. What do you think of this idea:
Obtain a gallon or two volume worth of glass balls (marbles or ?) and
encase them in one or more fine mesh bags. Sanitize by boiling,
iodofor, bleach or some combination thereof. When the wort is cool,
drop the bags in the keg, thus taking up the deadspace and allowing me
to drain off almost all of my wort.
I thought about just boiling the bags in the wort to sanitize, but
think that would risk breaking my ***** or losing my marbles! ;)
Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Chris Goll
Rockaway, NJ
cgoll at pica.army.mil
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 18:15:53 -0500
From: Bucket99 at aol.com
Subject: Nebraska Red.
Hello All,
I would like to thank those fine people that replied with advice about my
Honey-Wheat
recipe.
It will be racked and bottled soon, and I'll post the result.
I have been experimenting recently, trying to make an amber - red ale (Along
the
lines of a red dog clone) and have been moderately successfull with the
following
recipe.
My Friend George Shutelock has pronounced this recipe a Russian Red Bitter,
and since
it practically blew the lid of my fermenter, I dubbed it the "Red Russian
Atomic Ale",
after more consideration, since it does not run true to any given style, I
have renamed
it............ enjoy.
NEBRASKA RED
- ------------------
6.6 Lbs Munton & Fison Amber Malt Extract (Unhopped)
1.0 Lbs Crystal Malt (Steeped 45 minutes at 150-170 F)
2.0 Oz Roasted Barley (Same as above)
1.0 Oz Cascade Hops (for bittering, First wort Hopped, added with specialty
grain,
steeped 45 minutes then boiled for one hour)
0.5 Oz Cascade Hops ( For flavor, Boiled 15 minutes)
0.5 Oz Cascade hops (for aroma, Boiled 2 minutes)
1.0 Tsp Irish moss, (Rehydrated and added for fining added for last 15
minutes of boil.)
2 - 6 Gram packets of Muntons Dry yeast. (Rehydrated and started in a
quart
of boiled / cooled water-extract slurry.
Wort cooled to 85 F, aerated by stirring, and pitched the yeast starter at
85F.
Original Gravity reading was 1.062, Final Gravity was 1.015.
This ale is very lightly hopped, it does have a nice balance between the
sweetness
added by the crystal malt and the hops that were used.
Next time I try this recipe (Which will be soon) I will use more hops to
bring up the
bitterness a little.
But for now, I have a very nice red ale that is highly enjoyed by my friends
that
normally don't light darker beers.
Thanks for the bandwith.
Keep brewing!
Paul McFarland
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 18:25:28 -0500
From: Keith Chamberlin <Keith.A.Chamberlin at gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Iodophor, PPM calculation?
I never really sat down and figured out how much liquid iodophor to use so
when I saw someone say they used 1/2 oz in 5 gallons I did calculate it and
that turned out to be about 781ppm, not the recommended 12.5 ppm. Am I
doing something wrong? I normally go by color, but would like to know what
12.5 and 25 ppm equate to in gallons and ounces. Sorry I'm not a chemist.
Thanks.
Keith
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 96 08:29:51 EST
From: tgaskell at e3sa.elab.syr.ge.com
Subject: Re: Sam Adam's Triple Bock
In #1991, Johan H\dggstr\vm writes:
> Eric Dreher mentions SA Triple (HBD #1985)
>>Sam Adam's Triple Bock is the strongest lager beer in the world at
>>18.3 percent by volume (OG 39.5/1.168 FG 9.5)
>How do they get this high alcohol content?
>What yeast is used? How is it handled? Anyone..
First off, yep, it has a lot of alcohol in it. Just the same, the
last thing that SA 3Bock is is a lager. This brew is clearly a
barley wine; primary fermentation is at ale temps, and
secondary/aging is done in a winery and as such is probably aged
at temperatures well above normal lagering temps.
Notice: The following is from memory, which has failed me before...
I believe that 3Bock is brewed in a Northern state (Wisconsin or
Minnesota), primaried there, then shipped to a winery in central
California (town of Ceres?) for aging and finishing.
Regarding the yeast: it is virtually assured that a wine yeast of
some type is used to get the alcohol up there in the stratosphere.
The sweetness indicates that if the alcohol didn't kill the yeast,
there is still plenty of sugars for them to munch on.
At some point in aging, the young barley wine is racked to barrels
that once held Jack Daniels Bourbon.
My advice: Go ahead, try this at home, but keep your expectations
low. I am pretty well convinced that this beer is clone-proof.
Tom Gaskell Hog Heaven Homebrew Picobrewery Clayville, NY, USA
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 96 08:48:29 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Aluminum Kettles
In HBD 1991, J0HN CHANG <75411.142 at compuserve.com> said:
> I may be opening a can of worms on this one, but:
We'll hope not.
> Do any of you work with aluminum mash tuns/brew kettles?
> Dave Miller in his book suggests this is not a good
> practice because of the off flavors created. Papazian's
> latest release says there is no problem with it. I have
> a five gallon restaurant grade aluminum stockpot, but am
> unsure of its effectiveness or safety for use in
> brewing.
This has indeed been beaten to death both on HBD and r.c.b., and we
probably need an aluminum FAQ.
I will state unequivocally that aluminum adds no flavor to beer. This
is based on my own experience of heating water, mashing, lautering and
boiling wort in my three vessel, 10 gallon aluminum recirculating system
(restaurant stock pots). Recently, I've even been fermenting in the
sparge water kettle. No off flavors or weird ferments or anything,
including in very pale, light flavored beers such as "Your Father's
Mustache" classic American pilsner, which took a first place in regional
competition. I have used my own carbonaceous well water both as is for
dark beers and boiled/decanted with CaSO4 or CaCl2 added.
Further, an article in Brewing Techniques a year ago reported exactly
the same, barely detectable levels of aluminum in identical worts which
were boiled in stainless steel and aluminum - the same level as in the
water itself.
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu
Return to table of contents
Date: 22 Mar 96 08:52:00 EST
From: Don Claunch <74660.2471 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Quick fermenting barleywine
I put together my first barleywine last weekend using the "revenge" recipe from
Cat's Meow 3. I pitched the yeast (Lalvin 1118) at noon on Saturday. By
Saturday night I had a strong fermentation going and Sunday afternoon it was
"boiling." However, by Monday evening fermentation had stopped and no activity
seemed present and there's been none since. Does it seem possible that this
could have fermented that fast considering the amount of fermentables? There
appears to be very little yeast settlement in the fermenter at this point and
I'm concerned that something is going on that shouldn't be. Any suggestions
and/or observations would be more than welcome as this barleywine thing is new
to me.
Thanks,
Don Claunch
74660.2471 at compuserve.com
trying to relax...
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Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 10:07:17 -0500
From: ajdel at interramp.com (A. J. deLange)
Subject: EtOH/2,3,Pentane Dione/Iron
All fron # 1991:
Shelby posted a dialogue concerning the metabolism of ethanol. While
everyone is entitled to his opinion and the exact mechanisms of ethanol
metabolism are not fully understood at this time I strongly recommend that
anyone really interested in this subject consult a biochemistry text (or
texts). In a couple of sentences: alcohol which is not directly eliminated
(breath, urine) is oxidized either relatively quickly (Krebs cycle, MEOS)
or eventually after conversion to fat. In either event it leaves the body
as CO2 and water and the energy in the alcohol carbon bonds is available.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Al Korzonas asked about the amino acids involved in 2,3 Pentane dione
synthesis. It is produced when thge yeast sythesze isoleucine from
threonine. The answer to the original question (how to get 2,3 PD without
diacetyl) is to find a yeast strain which produces one and not the other
and operate it under conditions which optimize the ratio. I fully realize
that this answer is about as valuable as no answer.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Pat Humphrey asked about iron in brewing water. Iron gives a metalic taste
to beer (Greg Noonan says "inky" as if we have all been around long enough
to have tasted ink!). It also interferes with saccharification, causes hazy
worts and weakens the yeast. It should be at 0.1 ppm or less.
It is fairly easy to remove from z small volume of water. Thorough aeration
will convert the invisible, soluble ferrous (Fe++) ion to ferric (Fe+++)
which coalesces with hydroxyl ions to form insoluble Fe(OH)3. This is then
filtered out, usually through a sand bed. In-home iron removal equipment
uses this principal. Normal home water softeners (cation exchangers) should
get iron but their effectiveness at this is sometimes enhanced by the use
of special resins or recharging the resins with specially treated salt. In
stubborn cases, powerful oxidizers are used.
A.J. deLange Numquam in dubio, saepe in errore!
ajdel at interramp.com
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Date: Fri, 22 Mar 96 08:48:52 EST
From: toml at fcmc.com (Tom Lochtefeld (Risk Mgt))
Subject: Fill levels and carbonation
I read with interest Al Korzona's contribution on 3/22/96 regarding
fill levels and carbonation. Can anybody tell me why more airspace
would give better carbonation. I would think _more_ beer (and less
headspace) would produce more CO2. Also for the average tall neck
bottle, can anyone tell me the optimum fill level? How about for
Grolsch or Fischer Alsace bottles?
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Date: Fri, 22 Mar 96 09:14 EST
From: Carrick Legrismith <0007406335 at mcimail.com>
Subject: Counterpressure bottle fillers
- -- [ From: Carrick Legrismith * EMC.Ver #2.3 ] --
I have studied the counter pressure fillers in the Zymurgy, fall 1995 issue in
the pursuit of building my own, but have run into a design question that someone
out there hopefully can answer. According to what I can glean from the drawing
and the pictures the gas vent, (needle valve), seems to be attached directly to
the supply tube, where the gas initally enters the bottle, followed by the beer
. If so, how does it vent the excess gas from the bottle? Or is there a second
tube that enters the bottle and terminates in the neck which is then controlled
by the needle valve? Private E-Mail is fine.
Carrick Legrismith
740-6335 at MCIMAIL.COM1
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Date: Fri, 22 Mar 96 07:07 PST
From: robtrish at mindlink.bc.ca (Rob Lauriston)
Subject: Rob G., HBD God, amen.
Dear collective, fellow members of the Virtual Homebrew Club, Homebrew
hombres...
(mujeres y muchachas tambien, por supuesto)
Every digest, we read:
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
At first it seems like witty self-effacing designation, 'janitor'. Some
consider janitor to be a humble trade, but when you consider that we are
dealing with *brewing*, where cleanliness is next to Godliness... Well
then, you have to realize that Rob Gardner must truly be next to God! Amen
That's my round-about way of saying Hurray HBD and thanks to those who make
it possible; Rob Gardner and all the participants, reading and writing.
The auto-reply to postings which gives the subject line of upcoming posts is
a really valuable feature. Not only to avoid too many repeats, but just for
interest's sake. Apologies for suggesting extra work for my favourite
deity, but it would be great if this were available without posting.
Perhaps an instruction to HBD-request which gave the forecast without
actually having to post, for those interested? Someone might consult it
_before even writing_ a post to see if others have covered the subject.
And remember, old threads never dye, they just fray away.
Rob Lauriston
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Date: Fri, 22 Mar 96 10:23:45 EST
From: dipalma at sky.com (Jim Dipalma)
Subject: Re: First all-grain batch, aromatic Vienna and Steam
Hi All,
In HBD# 1991, Neil Roberts writes:
>I am about to embark on my first all-grain batch, and have converted two
>kegs for the purpose. I plan to make a 10-gallon batch (seems silly to
>do 5 gallons with all that capacity), but don't find many 10-gallon
>recipies. I know, all I have to do is double one, but I have had a
>terrible time deciding on a recipe to use.
>
>To the brewing collective: can y'all suggest a good, simple starting
>recipe for all-grain, 10 gallons bearing in mind that it needs to be
>simple to accomodate my rank amateur status. I would prefer to make an
>English-style ale, maybe something in the 1.045-1.055 starting gravity
>range.
I've been brewing 10 gallon batches for ~1.5 years now, here's my standard
recipe for English pale ale:
16# M+F pale malt
1# 60L crystal
1 cup torrified wheat (helps with head retention in style with low carbonation)
Single infusion mash at 152F
Target ~32 IBUs, East Kent Goldings
Have used 1/4 oz EKG for last 10 minutes, but lately first wort-hop with this
amount for hop flavor.
I tend to play with different yeast strains, so for this recipe I've used
Wyeast 1098, 1028, 1968, Tadcaster yeast from Samuel Smith, and Young's.
So much for "standard" recipes :-). I've been most pleased with 1098 and the
Young's yeast.
Depending on your extraction efficiency, this should yield 11-12 gallons
at ~1.050 OG. BTW, you're eventually going to discover that there is more to
scaling up to 10 gallon recipes than simply doubling the ingredients in a 5
gallon recipe. The darker specialty malts, chocolate, roasted barley, etc.,
simply do not scale up in a linear fashion. I've been multiplying the dark
grains in my 5 gallon recipes by 1.5, and doing some tweaking. Just something
to be aware of when you go to brew a stout or porter on your new system.
*********************************************************************
Also in HBD# 1991, Al K. writes:
>John writes:
>>I put about an ounce plus of Styrian Goldings and
>>Ultra in the Boiler as I collected my wort from my Mash/Lauter tun.
>and
>>Anyway, the beers turned out very good, and true to style.
>Since when are Vienna and Steam beers supposed to have a significant
>hop aroma and a Styrian/Ultra nose, at that?
I agree a Vienna should not have significant hop aroma. However, for all
of the years I've been drinking Anchor steam beer, both the bottled and the
draft version has always had a pronounced hop aroma.
> If there is any hop
>aroma in a Steam beer, it should be the woody/rustic US Northern
>Brewer and not the resiny Styrian Golding or the spicy Ultra (which
>have a lot of Saaz in their lineage). Care to `splain this, John? ;^).
Up until a few years ago, Anchor steam had a Hallertaur nose. I've since
read that they now use Northern Brewer for all hop additions, and indeed,
today's Anchor steam has the distinctive Northern Brewer aroma that Al
described. A steam beer should have hop aroma to be to style. If you want to
clone Anchor steam, use Northern Brewer.
Cheers,
Jim dipalma at sky.com
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Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 10:47:41 EST
From: "Rich Byrnes" <rich.byrnes at e-mail.com>
Subject: Plaid!
Greetings All!
After reading Pat Babcocks warning about Plaid I was extremely
concerned, made sure I was wearing neutral colors for the
entire brew last weekend. BUT THEN my wife came in the room
wearing a houndstooth pattern sweater and now my beer tastes
like Red Dog, what are the chances there is a connection?
Rich Byrnes
Fermental Order of Renaissance Draughtsmen
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Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 10:55:47 -0500
From: KennyEddy at aol.com
Subject: Beer Color / Iron In Water
Scott Bukofsky asks about calculating beer color.
The formula is basically to take *each* ingredient -- grain, extract, sugar,
fruit, old nylons -- and multiply its weight in pounds times its lovibond
color rating. Add these all together, and divide by the batch size in
gallons. The lovibond rating is in degrees lovibond per pound per gallon, so
this is why the formula works. Example: a five gallon batch containing 6
pounds DME at 2L, 1/2 lb crystal at 40L, 1/4 lb chocolate at 350lb. We have
(6*2 + 0.5*40 + 0.25*350) / 5 = 23.9 L.
************************
Patrick E. Humphrey asks about iron in beer. I'd say if you can taste it in
the water, you'll taste it in the beer. A darker, more minerally beer might
tolerate it better but certainly a light delicate beer will suffer.
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Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 10:56:00 -0500
From: Guy Mason <guy at matrixNet.com>
Subject: Filtering the Survey.
Greetings Fellow Beer-Nuts:
I had recently asked a question about how many keggers filtered their
beer before kegging. The overwhelming responses were NO and WHY?
9 - don't filter
1 - does filter
Most of the folks who don't filter say they don't want to remove any
of the proteins that contribute to mouth feel and just let it clear
a little longer.
- --
o o
\ / M A T R I X
o--o
/ \ O Guy Mason voice: 203-944-2020x190
o \ / guy at matrixNet.com fax: 203-944-2022
O--O--O
/ \ MATRIX, 2 Trap Falls Road, Shelton, CT 06484
O O
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Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 11:35:36 -0500
From: Simonzip at aol.com
Subject: Full boils...
For close to 30 batches now, I've been doing extract/specialty grain
concentrated wort boils. I can get about 3.5 gal. in my current pot and
usually lose close to a gal to evaporation. I'm content to use
extract/specialty grain, but am considering getting a big ass brew pot and,
maybe, a propane burner to cook outside or in the garage.
My question is: what positive improvements could I expect doing full boils?
I can think of two off hand;
1. less carmelization = lighter colored beers
2. I could boil a much bigger concentrate to split between two 5-6 gal.
primaries (same brewing time, for double the batch size).
Thanks
Darrin
Brewing Babble:
The very nasty cappers drink the grain, then the kettle stir the hot capper,
after the extracts drink Charlie, then the grains stir the extracts, after
Guiness wait the keg. Charlie mash the nasty extracts, then the carboys drink
the mug.
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Date: 22 Mar 1996 08:27:32 U
From: "Palmer.John" <palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com>
Subject: Style Faux Pas
Al points out a mistatement in a post I made last week:
>Anyway, the beers turned out very good, and true to style.
Since when are Vienna and Steam beers supposed to have a significant
hop aroma and a Styrian/Ultra nose, at that? If there is any hop
aroma in a Steam beer, it should be the woody/rustic US Northern
Brewer and not the resiny Styrian Golding or the spicy Ultra (which
have a lot of Saaz in their lineage). Care to `splain this, John? ;^).
I knew someone would Call Me on this one. Its true, Vienna and Steam are not
known for Hop Aroma in the style. Some in the Vienna, but not the Steam
certainly. What I should have said instead of "True to Style", was "True to
What I Intended". (Although as you will all see in (tomorrow's HBD,1992?), I
had intended for both beers to be More Aromatic than they actually turned out,
as a matter of personal taste. In fact, I am now considering Dry Hopping the
"Steam" Batch.)
Anchor Steam is defined by Northern Brewer of course. If we broaden the style
to California Common, I should still be using American cultivar hops
exclusively. But, the first beer I wanted out of the batch was Vienna
(Graf-Style) and Vienna and Steam are not that far apart with respect to the
malts. So, I nominally made the Vienna recipe (from Fix's book) adding a bit
here and there, and brewed with the hops on hand, and knowing that I wanted to
try FWHing, bought some Ultra, which I had wanted to try anyway. So, I split
the 11 gallons or so into two fermenters, pitched different yeasts, and wahlah
(voila) two different beers. I had boiled a gallon of wort for the Steam with
more hops to up the IBUs for the Steam.
"True to Style" was a mistatement to say the least.
John J. Palmer - Metallurgist for MDA-SSD M&P
johnj at primenet.com Huntington Beach, California
Palmer House Brewery and Smithy - www.primenet.com/~johnj/
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Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 12:50:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: neumbg73 at SNYONEVA.CC.ONEONTA.EDU
Subject: More on State Laws Regarding Alcohol
Just thought I would throw this comment out...
I was in Oklahoma briefly this winter and took a trip to the local beer
store near Oklahoma City. I found that most of the "good beers" were
unavailable cold. The store clerk informed me that it was state law that
beer over a certain alcohol percentage could not be sold cold. (Probably
so it would not be consumed too fast).
Cheers! Bernie neumbg73 at oneonta.edu
(KB2EBE)
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Date: Fri, 22 Mar 96 13:59:18 EST
From: "Klar, Robert L." <RKLAR at MUSIC.FERRIS.EDU>
Subject: SIGNOFF homebrwew
SIGNOFF homebrwew
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Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 16:36:07 -0500 (EST)
From: kcollins at seidata.com
Subject: Las Vegas Brewpubs or Microbreweries?
Does anyone out there know of any brewpubs/microbreweries within the Las Vegas
area? I am planning a trip out there soon. Thanks. Private email ok.
kcollins at seidata.com
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Date: Fri, 22 Mar 96 13:49:58 PST
From: mikehu at lmc.com
Subject: First all-grain recipie
Neil Roberts writes:
>I am about to embark on my first all-grain batch..
>I have had a terrible time deciding on a recipe to use..
>I plan to make a 10-gallon batch...
Here's a real simple one that resembles an English Bitter
This is what I brew most of the time, I call it "Liquid Sunshine"
Ingredients (for 10 Gallons)
16 Lbs. 2-row Barley
2 Lbs Crystal Malt (medium)
3 Oz. Cascade hops
1 Jar Grandma's Molasses (unsulphered)
Yeast 1098 liquid yeast
1) Add crushed grains to 4.5 Gallons of 140 deg. water for protein rest
at 122 deg. for .5 hr. 2) Raise to 152 deg. for mash (1 - 1.5 hrs)
3) Sparge with 170 deg. water to get 11 gallons. 4) Boil for 1 hr.(with
molasses and hops) 5) Cool wort and pitch yeast.
Note: You may want to vary the amount and/or type of hops, depending on
the bitterness you desire. I have recently started making this using the
"Early Hop Addition" method discussed here in this very forum. The results
have been more than spectacular. I have started using Columbus hops (A=15%!!!)
and just throwing them into my boil kettle at the start of the sparge. The
beer has NOT been overly bitter as would be expected, but you can definitely
taste the hops (yum!). Also, I too use a converted keg system, and usually
brew 15 gallon batches. One keg for mash tun, one keg for boil kettle.
I use an 80 quart cooler fitted with a slotted copper manifold for my lauter
tun. You may want to consider doing this, as I have been very happy with my
system.
Mike Hughes
Portland, OR
Co-owner of the Double Barrel Brew-Pub
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Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 16:48:49 -0500
From: Tim Martin <TimM at southwest.cc.nc.us>
Subject: Recirculating Wort
Hey Neighbors,
With only four all grain batches behind me I am curious
about the process of recirculating the wort during the sparge.
I currently drain off a couple quarts of the cloudy wort and
pour it back into the mash tun. However, this tend to kick up
the grains and cause more turbidity and possibly HSA.
My question is...can I not just pour these couple of quarts
into my sparge bucket and just continue along with my
sparge? I have my sparge water calculated so that I use all
of it. What do you think? Is anyone doing this?
P.S.- Now that I am doing all grain there is no going back.
The beer taste great. I was never able to achive this quality
with extract.
Thanks,
Tim Martin
Buzzard's Roost Homebrewery
"with that strong predatory taste"
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Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 08:17:27 -0500
From: denisb at CAM.ORG (Denis Barsalo)
Subject: re:Grain. Convince me.
This is for Howard and other lurkers who are looking for a reason
to go all-grain.
My grain recipes are fresher tasting, cleaner and definitely
yummier than any of my extract beers. I find I have a lot more control on
color, taste, sweetness, etc. Start with a partial-mash to get your feet
wet and you can decide for yourself.
As far as cost is concerned, an all-grain batch costs me approx.
1/2 to 1/3 of an all-extract batch. (5 gallons)
The *only* drawback to all-grain brewing is time! It takes me about
5 to 6 hours for an all-grain batch. (Mostly because I'm boiling 6 gallons
of wort on an electric stove!) If I'm doing a partial-mash, then I'll also
do a partial boil and knock off an hour or so on my time. For comparision
purposes, an extract batch will take me approx. 3 hours. When I borrow my
buddy's propane stove, the all-grain time is closer to 4 hours.
Just brew it! (Sorry Nike)
Denis
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