HOMEBREW Digest #1994 Tue 26 March 1996
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FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Don't lose hope... ("Patrick G. Babcock")
Las Vegas Brewpubs? (kcollins)
First Wort Hopping (Jim Johnston)
re: advice for brewing class (C.D. Pritchard)
Slow Carbonation (Bob Wilcox)
Carbonates (A. J. deLange)
Priming with honey... (Victor J Farren)
plaid kills (Mitch Dushay)
Rookie Recipe question (Mike DeRousse)
"Convincing" AGB / Lautering Manifold / Carboante Water Boiling (KennyEddy)
keg tap (Robert Bullard)
1st wort & decocted vs. infused (Dan Sherman)
new Miller (tapp)
DAB mini-kegs (tapp)
Brewing Addiction (Kelly Heflin)
hi (Shiva Vakili)
CO2 as dry ice (Domenick Venezia)
doppelbock style/recipe request (Robert Rogers)
Re: Hop storage (Mike Kidulich)
DMS and yeast strain. (Andy Walsh)
subject list (Wallinger)
Brita Systems/ Bad Suppliers ("Rich Byrnes")
Deadspace in Keg Boiler (DONBREW)
Mash scaling revisited ("David C. Rinker")
(Simon McLaren)
Sum:extract/head responses (William D Gladden )
B-Brite Is... ("Palmer.John")
"Tygon" tubing safe? (john Moore)
Bass Ale recipe (extract please) (Larry N. Lowe)
Filtering, continued (Jim Busch)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 09:04:26 -0500
From: "Patrick G. Babcock" <pbabcock at ford.com>
Subject: Don't lose hope...
Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...
Anyone waiting on info from me, or the document echo at oeonline.com: Keep the
faith. The transfer of my systems from Windows 3.1 (wimpy, mewling 486 DX2/66)
to Windows 95 (BIG, BURLY, MANLY MAN's P133) has met with Mr. Murphy. I haven't
been able to access the mail portion of my internet account since about Tuesday
3/18.
Great strides were made in resolving these issues last night (got the at $%%#$
hard drive in the 486 to talk to the world/pc again, and have acquired some
decent clients for the Win95 IP/TCP (Internet ready: my ass, Mr. Gates! Ready
if I choose to get there through yours or other such services...)). If you've
been waiting for something, I expect the echo to fire back into life this
evening.
As always: See ya!
-Pat Babcock
pbabcock at oeonline.com
Well - sort of, anyway!
Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 09:07:59 -0500 (EST)
From: kcollins at seidata.com
Subject: Las Vegas Brewpubs?
Does anyone out there know of any brewpubs in the Las Vegas area? I'm planning
a trip to Las Vegas soon. Email is ok.
Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 96 09:10 EST
From: Jim Johnston <jimjohns at oeonline.com>
Subject: First Wort Hopping
In HBD digest #1926 George Fix responds to the question about first wort
hopping.
Since their has been so much talk about this subject, why don't we read just
what George really said.
>This is an old German procedure where the "aroma hops" (traditionally
>a third of the total) are added to the brew kettle just before it is
>filled. As far as I can tell this procedure disappeared many decades
>ago, and for the better part of the 20th century it has been universally
>accepted that beer aroma is best influenced by late kettle additions,
>post-boil additions to hot wort (e.g., whirlpool hopping), and/or
>cold side hopping during beer maturation.
>
>Recent research in Germany (c.f., Brauwelt, 1995, Vol.4)) suggests that
>this point of view may be overlooking some important effects. Using
>gas chromatography they studied a series of brews where everything
>was kept the same except for the point where the aroma hops were added.
>The latter consisted of a third of the total and were German Tettnangers.
>The beer was a standard Pilsner (OE ~12 P [1.048] and IBUs ~40 mg/l).
>In addition to the chromatographic study a professional taste panel was
>employed to identify preferences. The following were the major
>conclusions:
>
> (i) While a lot of hop oil constituents are lost during wort boiling
> a nontrivial fraction, at concentrations far higher than
> anticipated, become bound up with other wort constituents. They
> then underwent a series of complex and subtle reactions
> (mechanisms that would make those occurring in fermentation
> look like child's play!). This suggest that the main influence
> of the time of hop additions may be more on the character of
> the flavor induced than on its intensity. The striking differences
> in the chromatographs supports this view, as well as the well defined
> preferences of the taste panel that were reported.
>
> (ii) Whirlpool hopping got the lowest marks of all the procedures. This
> comes as no surprise for during the last few years I have developed
> a "gut feeling" that this procedure may be doing as much harm as good.
> Interestingly, DeClerck anticipated these results. This was undoubtly
> behind his recommendation that late addition hops be pre-processed
> in boiling water to remove "undesirable constituents".
>
> (iii) Top marks were given the the brew using 1st wort hopping, and in
> fact the brewery which participated in this study has now switched
> from whirlpool hopping to 1st wort hopping. All of this comes
> as a complete surprise to me, and I still have more questions
> about the procedure than insights. (Just when think you have got a
> book written something like this comes along!). Nevertheless,
> having heard about these results from friends nearly a year
> ago, I have evolved into something of a convert at least for
> German Pilsners and exports. It can not be overemphasized that only
> the finest aroma hops can be used in this procedure, a fact I
> found out the hard way!
>
>George Fix
Cheers,
Jim,
AABG
Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 96 09:50 EST
From: cdp at chattanooga.net (C.D. Pritchard)
Subject: re: advice for brewing class
Mike Swan <mswan at fdic.gov> is streamlining the brewing process or a course
he's teaching and posted in #1985:
>For example, it should not be necessary to boil the extract wort for a full
>hour---ten minutes should be enough time to get the idea across.
>But should I even use extract--since the beer will never be fermented,
>shouldn't I just use colored water? And should I even boil the wort?---
>if I do, I'll need to use a good amount of time to chill it before I
transfer >it to the fermenter.
I'd boil until I got a hot break so the students can see what it looks like
and then tell 'em that it's appearance and volume may vary. I'd really be
tempted to let it boil over so that they gain an appreciation of how fast
and violently it can occur. I know I would have appreciated such a demo- I
had to replace all of the ranges' insulation when my first boil resulted in
a wort volcano. Since a "real" brew isn't planned, what about a low volume
(but normal gravity) wort and cooling rapidly by adding cold water. This
would allow for a quicker boil (and perhaps a bit of head space for a
boilover 8-) ). I'd still a chiller tho'.
- ------------------
Our esteemed yeast expert Tracy Aquilla posted:
>Performance in the brewery is probably the best way to monitor yeast
>quality. Unfortunately, one can produce a bad batch of beer before noticing
>that something has gone wrong.
Tasting the brew resulting from the starter before you pitch (or, much
better yet, before you start a batch) helps avoid this.
- ------------------
C.D. Pritchard cdp at chattanooga.net
Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 06:45:12 -0800
From: Bob Wilcox <bobw at sirius.com>
Subject: Slow Carbonation
Thanks to all who responded to my post on slow rate of carbonation. Thay ran
from shake up the bottles to wake up yeast,open up and add corn sugar, big
PITA, foamed up all over the kitchen counter and I had to drink it right
away oh well.
The yeast used is a little slower then others. Always use corn sugar. Type
of DME used. If I may quote Russel Mast "BINGO", and thank John McCauly for
his unrelated post in HBD1991 for lighting up the light bulb over my head. I
used Laaglander DME which is said to have a lot of dextrins and other
unfermentables in it. I think thats the problem. So in conclusion I will
never use Laaglander DME to prime again.I may try another brand some time
but for now I will use corn sugar. The beer aint bad just a little flat.
I'll just have to wait and see,
in the mean time I will enjoy my Pale Ale and wait for the Alt thats going
into the secondary today to come about. What would I do with out all you
HBDers out there??? Be drinking flat beer and wondering what the hell went
wrong.
Thanks
Bob
Bob Wilcox
Long Barn Brewing
bobw at sirius.com
Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 12:15:49 -0500
From: ajdel at interramp.com (A. J. deLange)
Subject: Carbonates
In # 1992 Rob Reed had some questions about the differences compensating
for alkalinity in water by boiling as opposed to treatment with acid. In
boiling
Ca++ + 2HCO3- --> CaCO3(s) + CO2(g) + H2O
Boiling drives off the dissolved carbon dioxide and this lowers the pH. At
lower pH bicarbonate is converted to carbonate and, as calcium carbonate is
not very soluble in water, the carbonate pairs with calcium ions to form
the solid, indicated by (s) calcium carbonate which precipitates out. The
extent of precipitation and whether it will happen depends on several
factors and is not that easy to predict. There are a couple of indices
which try to do this job but don't seem to work that well for the brewer's
purposes (or more likely, I don't know how to interpret them correctly). To
give a bit of a feel for this my well water has, typically, 23 mg/L
calcium, alkalinity (bicarbonate) at 72 mg/L as CaCO3 and TDS (by
conductivity) of about 150 mg/L. This gives a saturation pH of about 8.
Upon boiling the pH of this water goes to a pH of a bit over 9 at which
time it is super saturated but no precipitation occurs. The alkalinity and
hardness do not change. By contrast, sythetic Burton water with calcium at
194 mg/L, magnesium at 66 mg/L alkalinity of 130 mg/L and TDS at 800 mg/L
has a saturation pH of 7.04. Upon boiling its pH goes into the nines and
precipitation does occur. After cooling and settling the calcium has
decreased to 66 mg/L (down to about a third of what it was), the magnesium
is unchanged and the alkalinity is 40 mg/L as CaCO3, about a third of what
it was. Note that the hardness of Burton water is mostly permanent due to
the large sulfate ion concentration.
In treatment with acid
Ca++ + 2HCO3- + 2HA --> 2H2CO3 + Ca++ + 2A-
"A" represents the acid anion. Upon standing or when the water is heated,
some of the carbonic acid escapes as CO2
H2CO3 --> H2O + CO2(g)
The net effect is that SOME of the bicarbonate ion has been driven off as
CO2 gas and has been replaced with the A- (typically phosphate, lactate,
chloride, or sulfate) anion. Contrast this with the boiling case where SOME
of the bicarbonate is paired with calcium, removed and not replaced. In the
acid treatment case you must be prepared to deal with the flavor effects of
the anion (in the case of strong mineral acids) and the anion and acid in
the case of the organic acids as they are not fully dissociated at beer
pH's.
Rob specifically mentions problems with coarse bitterness in highly hopped
beers. The problem here is usually sulfate ion which must be at very low
levels (<15 ppm) where beers like Bohemian pilsner are desired. Bicarbonate
is often labeled bitter when it is actually the effects of alkalinity in
raising mash/sparge pH that are really responsible. Bicarbonate paired with
magnesium can be bitter, however. The bottom line is that for highly hopped
pale beers a nearly ion free water is required such as that of the home
town of these beers: Plzen. Very few brewers are fortunate to have water
this soft and must rely on use of distilled water, RO water or their tap
water diluted with deionized water.
A.J. deLange Numquam in dubio, saepe in errore!
ajdel at interramp.com
Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 14:09:52 -0500
From: Victor J Farren <wigwam at jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu>
Subject: Priming with honey...
I have been searching PApazian's book trying to find out how much
honey to use to prime a 5 gallon batch but I can't find it! does anyone
here know how much to use? I have heard that honey does great things for
head retention and that is one area in which I am trying to improve. I
plan on using a light clover honey that I an get from a nearby health
food store.
On another point, I have experienced different levels of
carbonation depending on whta type of bottles I use. I have a collection
of pop-top bottles that I have been using for my last two batches. I
have experienced that they do not have as high a level of carbonation as
those bottles that I cap with bottle caps. I know the seal on the
pop-top bottles is good because they are new seals. Someone once told me
that those seals leak. Is there any truth to that? I have also used
clay pop-top bottles that originally contained belgian ale. While I like
these because they block out all light and maintain a steady temperature,
I find that the carbonation level in those bottles is the lowest of all,
even the glass pop-top bottles. Has anyone experienced similar results?
Can anyone shed some light on this? Much thanks in advance.
Victor J. Farren
Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 20:14:46 +0100
From: mitch at molbio.su.se (Mitch Dushay)
Subject: plaid kills
On 19 March, Daniel Goodale, "Sure its gonna kill ya, but who wants
to live forever?" of "The Biohazard Brewing Company" wrote:
>My old plaid boxer shorts are causing "plaid-tosis" in my yeast...
>can [they be revived] by burning the shorts in front of the carboy?
Here's a question back at you Daniel - could it hurt?
Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 17:23:21 -0600
From: Michael.D.Derousse at att.com (Mike DeRousse)
Subject: Rookie Recipe question
For my second batch, I decided to attempt the "Danger Knows No
Favorites Dunkel" recipe from page 204 of Papazian's NCJHB. I picked
up all of the ingredients today, and realized after I got home, that
the recipe calls for lager yeast. I know that Papazian states that
it's OK to substitute ale yeast for lager yeast and vice-versa, but I
think I'm more of a worrier than he is (though relaxing with some of
the homebrews from my first-batch does help considerably).
Is it OK for me to use ale yeast for this recipe and ferment it at ale
temperatures (68 F)? Will it dramatically change the character of the
recipe?
Thanks for your help,
Mike DeRousse
Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 19:08:15 -0500
From: KennyEddy at aol.com
Subject: "Convincing" AGB / Lautering Manifold / Carboante Water Boiling
Howard in Baltimore needs "convincing" about all-grain brewing. I think it's
been said a million times that, properly and carefully done, an extract beer
can be every bit as good as an all-grain beer. AGB has advantages in
ingredient and "character" control, and the character obtained from mashing
is "different", in general, than simple steeping. It's largely a matter of
preference. If you use the highest-quality pale (as opposed to colored)
extracts for all your beer, and obtain flavor and color from properly-steeped
specialty grains (add a pound of pale malt to the steep to obtain a
"mini-mash" -- even simpler than a true "partial mash"), you can get a
wonderful extract beer, no doubt. Remember, even AGB grain bills use pale
malt for the bulk (generally speaking), and the color and character comes
largely from the specialty grains. This is why I advocate using pale extract
as a base even for say a stout. As for something like Oktoberfest, where a
"specialty" grain (Munich, let's say) is a more significant part of the bill,
you can get Munich extract (I know St Pat's has it). If your extract beers
do everything they need to do for you, why mess with AGB?
*****
Dave Whitman asked about holes versus slots for lautering manifold. I used
3/32" holes about every 1/4", drilled all the way through the tubing. The
larger diameter of the fittings compared to the tubing (pipe) "suspends" the
pipe above the cooler bottom, so the holes aren't blocked (in fact, this gap
forms a long, narrow slot itself, the length of the pipe, and it's too narrow
for most grain chunks to get into). I also toss a cut-to-size sheet of
8-holes per inch nylon needlepoint mesh over the manifold to protect it fom
my spoon as well as to increase the apparent "false bottom" area. Works real
well for me (last mash I got 80%-85%).
*****
Rob Reed asks about water treatment. This is a topic recently near and dear
to my heart, so I will take a stab at it. Carbonate reduction from boiling
is only as effective as the amount of calcium in the water, as this is what
forms the carbonate precipitate (CaCO3). Even then, there will be CO3 left
in the water as it won't all come out (but the ~50 ppm leftover should be
tolerable). Acidiy in the mash will arise primarily from calcium's reactions
with the mash, so if your boiled water had just enough calcium to get rid of
the carbonate, you may not reach your 5.2 pH target (or thereabouts) without
other acidification. "Acidification" with acids will help in this case, but
acidification form calcium is arguably more "natural". As for your hop
character comment, the sulphates (SO4) you pick up from the gypsum are
definitely going to hop enhancement, from the sounds of it. However, if you
were to use the same technique to brew say an Oktoberfest, the hop
accentuation would be totally out of character.
Sparge water should be acidified to prevent the rising pH from helping to
leach tannins and othere junk from the grain. What else is in this water is
probably not that important for the sparge, but can be important in the boil.
In the mash, it's the calcium and carbonates that will have the greatest
role; in the boil, the other ions (magnesium, sulfate, sodium, chloride) will
also have their effects along with the other two. The calcium/carbonate
balance is the main thing in your mash; the *total* ionic makeup of your
boiling wort is important in the boil for overall beer character. Note that
if you have water that's high, say, in sodium, you could try sparging with
acidified (lactic or phosphoric) *distilled* water; this in effect "dilutes"
the original mash water and reduces the ppm's of *all* the ions going into
the boil. As long as your mash & sparge pH's were properly managed, this
will reduce any other "offending" ions' ppm's.
Get a water analysis from your municipal supplier (should be free for the
asking). It may not be totally accurate or reliable (I got one last week
dated "2/94"), but it'll give you an idea of your water makeup. Sulphates,
sodium, or chloride over ~75-100 ppm might indicate trouble with harshness in
more-delicate beers; low (<~30-50 ppm) calcium might cause problems in
acheiving proper mash pH; magnesium over ~30 ppm will begin to taste
unpleasantly bitter. Carbonates will react with calcium to precipitate in a
pre-boil in the ratio of roughly 3 CO3 to 2 Ca; about 30-50 ppm carbonate
will not react at all and will remain (per Dave Miller). So for example if
you have CO3 at 100 ppm, and Ca at 30 ppm, you'll use up all your calcium and
still have 50 ppm CO3 leftover. A mash performed with this water may not
drop much below the "high-five's" in pH. Adding gypsum will give adequate
residual calcium to set the mash pH but will also boost your sulphate, which
may not be what you want.
If after this kind of a review, your water starts to look ugly to you (mine
did -- sodium 145 ppm, sulphates 154 ppm; yuk!), you may have to consider
using another approach (for example, adding salts to distilled water), or
sticking to brewing beers within a certain style which benefits from your
particular water.
Ken Schwartz
KennyEddy at aol.com
Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 20:05:19 -0600
From: rbullard at datasync.com (Robert Bullard)
Subject: keg tap
Hi all,
I'm looking for some advice. Just started kegging and bought an old chest
freezer to hold the kegs. I had in mind drilling holes in the side and
front to run CO2 line and in front, the tap shank. I have since been
advised not to do this because of the possibility of running into some
cooling coils. A friend of mine, Wade W. (hi Wade), suggested putting a
"collar" of wood between the box and lid and tapping through that. To me
that sounds like a lot of trouble. Does anyone have any advice for mounting
a shank meant for a vertical wall on top of a chest freezer, or advice on
how I can safely drill through the vertical walls of a chest freezer? Post
or private mail would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance. This is my first post to the HBD, but have been lurking
for a while. I've learned alot by reading the digest.
Bob Bullard
Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 23:31:10 -0800 (PST)
From: Dan Sherman <dsherman at sdcc3.ucsd.edu>
Subject: 1st wort & decocted vs. infused
First of all, thanks to Dave Draper for an excellent summary of the
article on First Wort Hopping by Freis et al.
I would like to see a little more discussion about how the amounts of
break materials in infusion mashed vs. decoction mashed beers affect the
bitterness contributed by the FWH.
Dave stated:
>One quick comment: Bob McCowan mentioned, quite correctly, that the
>above commentary applies to infused beers--in decocted beers,
>comparatively little break is formed in early part of the boil, so
>one needs to consider this.
Since there is less hot break material in the boil of a decocted beer,
will a decocted beer that is hopped the same as an infused beer end up
with higher IBUs? Is this a general phenomenon, or would this only apply
with the hops added before the hot break (as in FWH)? Can someone give
a good explanation as to *why* this is so?
Thanks!
Dan Sherman
San Diego, CA
dsherman at ucsd.edu
Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 08:09:40 -0500
From: tapp at usit.net
Subject: new Miller
To answer John Palmer and to the list:
I tried the new Miller. It was not a taste knockout, but I don't remember
what the old Miller tasted like, except the skunky taste when it came in
clear bottles. I don't mean to say it is not a solid American light lager
if you are stuck at a bad bar.
I also tried the new twice-hopped Southpaw by Miller (or is it Plank Road?),
even though it is a light beer, to see what kind of hop flavor/aroma they
were shooting for. If you have to drink a light beer, this one is not as
bad as most.
Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 08:09:43 -0500
From: tapp at usit.net
Subject: DAB mini-kegs
>I saw some 5 liter DAB mini-kegs at the store today. Has
>anyone tried to reuse these for their homebrew? If so, how
>is it done?
Those are among what you would get, with the trademarks scrubbed off, if you
bought them at a homebrew store.
Typically the deposit is less than you would pay to buy them. I've seen
much hand-wringing about the morality of acquiring kegs, particularly big
and very expensive draft kegs, this way. I respect that concern for private
property and obeying the rules, but I have to wonder whether mini-kegs are
actually shipped back to Germany for refill. I doubt even more that most
glass bottles are shipped back to bottling plants from those states that
require deposits, especially because I've seen them crunched into shards by
return centers. Thus, I have a special appreciation for Jim Koch and Fritz
Maytag for not using twist-offs, whereas Pete's I suppose figures it's
better for sales to use them.
I'd appreciate being informed of usual practices after return for deposit of
mini-kegs, bar longneck and Grolsch/Fischer-type bottles, and lighter-weight
bottles, in states that have a bottle deposit regime.
In any event, you can get various taps for dispensing from the mini-kegs and
replacement bungs for sealing them, at homebrew stores.
Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 09:41:24 -0500
From: Kelly Heflin <kheflin at monmouth.com>
Subject: Brewing Addiction
I'm not brewing this weekend, Oh the pain, fortunately I still have one
fermenting upstairs. I can sit there and watch it bubble.
I'm starting to think my local supplier is limited to certain malts. All my
recipes seem to basically be the same. 8-10 lbs of Helles 2 row malt. A
little crystal malt. Then the hop varities and yeast change for all the
recipes, but I seem to think I should be changing the malt varities. They do
have a nice selection of speciaty malts, chocalate and other roasted things.
They only sell one type of 2 row because they say it's the best and they can
offer a good price because they buy it in bulk.(They use it in their own
brew). I read all these recipes with all the different types of malt and
wonder if my stuff would be better with them. I hate to say it but I'm
getting bored with my beer flavor. (Don't worry, I'm addicted to this hobby
, I'll never stop.) I think I need to switch to some more flavorful ales.
I'm allways making dark lagers and I allways seem to use Hallertau hops.
Hopefully the Steam beer fermenting is going to be different.
Could some of you send me one of your favorite recipes for a light colored,
hoppy ale. (all grain).
Well, happy brewing.
Gonna go watch it bubble for a while.
kelly
Kelly C. Heflin
kheflin at monmouth.com
Kelly C. Heflin
kheflin at monmouth.com
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Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 10:04:22 -0500 (EST)
From: Shiva Vakili <vakili at pobox.upenn.edu>
Subject: hi
Hello,
I miss seeing your friendly face. Although I have called you couple of
times, not that it means anything!! since you never return calls!! just
Kidding. I took off from last Friday, since Yasha is on vacation and I am
not. I am back to Prineton from Monday, on a burned Highway! We missed
you for our little celebration of Spring. It was unplanned and nice. I
will be off all next week , but I will be in on TUESDAY 1/2 day to be at
the window training of Acq. department.
love, shiva
- --
Shiva Vakili
University of Pennsylvania Libraries
Tel: (215) 898-4925 email vakili at pobox.upenn.edu
****************************************************************************
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Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 09:54:42 -0800 (PST)
From: Domenick Venezia <venezia at zgi.com>
Subject: CO2 as dry ice
The recent discussion of whether a 5 or 20 lb bottle of CO2 is
liquid or gas caused me to consider the following. If I took the
valve off of my 5 lb CO2 bottle and stuffed 5 lbs of dry ice into
it then sealed it back up would I end up with a full bottle or
a bomb? Dry ice benzene contamination aside, it seems to me that
this would work. The problem would be the fact that "dry ice" is
not really dry and much water frost accumulates. Water in a pressure
bottle is bad as it can cause rusting and eventual failure. So
how about 5 lbs of dry ice and a few packs of silica gel?
Domenick Venezia
Computer Resources
ZymoGenetics, Inc.
Seattle, WA
venezia at zgi.com
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Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 13:22:28 -0500
From: bob at carol.net (Robert Rogers)
Subject: doppelbock style/recipe request
my dad wants me to brew a Permeator clone, which i guess is a doppelbock.
there is some latitude in the style guidelines i have, so does anyone have a
recipe for permeator, or does anyone know what flavors set it apart from
other doppelbocks?
tia
bob
bob rogers, bob at carol.net
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Date: Sun, 24 Mar 96 20:35:30 -0500
From: Mike Kidulich <mjkid at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Hop storage
- -- [ From: Mike Kidulich * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --
In HBD 1983, the question of hop storage was raised, and in a later HBD,
oxygen-barrier bags were mentioned. I work in the electronics industry, and
these oxygen-barrier bags seem to be what we use as static-shielding bags,
to store delicate electronic components. I don't know if these bags are food
-grade, but since the hops will be boiled anyway, it may be a moot point.
These bags may be obtained from Contact East, 508-682-2000. The bags have an
aluminum outer layer, and (I think-don't have the catalog in front of me), a
polypropolene inner layer. The bags are amine free. There is a series of zip
-loc bags (4x6" are $13.10/100), and heat sealable, (4x6" are $8.20/100).
Sizes from 3x5" and up are available.
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Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 22:04:08 +1000 (EST)
From: awalsh at crl.com.au (Andy Walsh)
Subject: DMS and yeast strain.
I helped a club member ferment a single batch of beer with several different
yeast strains a few weeks ago. The beer was a pale ale, OG=1.045, 19IBU zero
late hop additions, to emphasize the yeast characteristics. All were
fermented in identical 1 gallon jugs at the same ambient temp (21C or so). A
friendly laboratory at the local megabrewery did an analysis for us on
alcohol, esters, DMS, aldehydes, diacetyl etc.
Our club members tasted the beers at our monthly meeting and had the lab
results as reference notes (those members who bothered to turn up - you know
who I'm talking to!)
The results were all interesting, but the one that really stood out for me
was DMS. It varied over a very wide range depending upon the yeast strain (I
don't have the results handy, so cannot quantify this accurately, but as I
recall it was over about a 3:1 range). This is a very interesting result, as
most books say DMS comes mainly from the malting and cooling processes. It
should be about the same for a given wort, independent of the yeast strain.
Well, so much for that theory!
*************************************************************
Andy Walsh from Sydney
email: awalsh at world.net (or awalsh at crl.com.au if you prefer)
I still don't know what a Wohlgemuth unit is.
*************************************************************
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Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 07:09:08 -0600
From: Wallinger <wawa at datasync.com>
Subject: subject list
> Read the goldarned subject list. Sometimes your post is redundant
> with the freakin' subject line, for heaven sakes.
>
> -R
then again, the problem may very well be that some are wearing plaid
when posting to the hbd. we must realize that plaid is not only bad for
beer, but also for inciting certain unwanted behaviors in brewers. go
easy on them, they don't realize they are under plaid's intoxcating
spell.
and hat's off to russell for the shortest sig on the digest!?!?!?!
wade wallinger
pascagoula, mississippi
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Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 08:25:05 EST
From: "Rich Byrnes" <rich.byrnes at e-mail.com>
Subject: Brita Systems/ Bad Suppliers
*** Resending note of 03/25/96 08:14
Greetings all!
Not to revive the Brita thread, but my wife is quickly embracing
holistic/homeopathic "stuff" with the same passion I embrace
my homebrewing (Kinda scary) This weekend she bought an 8 Oz
bottle of colloidal silver (30-33 ppm) as a substitute to
all the damn antibiotics my kids have been taking
********** DISCLAIMER ************************
* lets not turn this into alt.holistic.brewing*
* NOR should we turn this into a holistic *
* thread discussing benifits/drawbacks, I get *
* enough of that discussion already, thanks! *
***********************************************
BUT, I do notice the active ingredient in the Brita filters is
colloidal silver (.016%?) TO all the chemists/biologists in the
peanut gallery, is there any benifit to adding colloidal silver
in small amounts to the water for brewing? I myself don't
plan on it as I like my water just fine (Great Lakes Water)
but there was a lot of discussion just recently on the subject
so I thought I would throw my $.02 in....... (Actually the silver
was $25 so my .02 doesn't go very far :-(
*****************************************************************
RANT MODE ON
******************************************************************
On March 5 I placed a verbal order with East Coast Brewing
(Precision Brewing Supplies?) for the patented Pin Lock socket,
9 days later I called to see where it was and was told that they
just shipped my part that morning because they had to get postage,
HUH? Well, Monday is here and still no part. Obviously this isn't
the same as the infamous St. Pats gripe about the missing carboy
for the brewing on the weekend story but I'm pretty ticked just the
same and if this is the spot where I can vent some vital organs,
well my spleen says thank you for listening!
Rant Mode Off!
Rich Byrnes
Fermental Order of Renaissance Draughtsmen
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Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 09:01:41 -0500
From: DONBREW at aol.com
Subject: Deadspace in Keg Boiler
Christopher M. Goll asked about solving the deadspace problem in his
converted keg boiler.
I turned the keg upside down and whacked the dome-like area with a 3 lb.
hammer, thus "inverting" the dome. Now I have a dome on the inside of the keg
and my manifold sits in the "valley" between the "dome" and the sides of the
keg.
Don
.
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Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 09:56:20 -0500 (EST)
From: "David C. Rinker" <dcrink at widomaker.com>
Subject: Mash scaling revisited
Today, Jim Dipalma alluded:
"Depending on your extraction efficiency, this should yield 11-12 gallons
at ~1.050 OG. BTW, you're eventually going to discover that there is more to
scaling up to 10 gallon recipes than simply doubling the ingredients in a 5
gallon recipe. The darker specialty malts, chocolate, roasted barley, etc.,
simply do not scale up in a linear fashion. I've been multiplying the dark
grains in my 5 gallon recipes by 1.5, and doing some tweaking. Just something
to be aware of when you go to brew a stout or porter on your new system."
Now, I've never heard this explained: why is the scaling of some grains
linear and some not? This implies that my calculated mash efficiency
should vary both with the ammount of grain mashed as well as with the
proportions of grain used? Why should mashing two 5gal. batches separately
not yield the same results as mashing them together (assuming identical
mash schedules and mash thicknesses)?
Regards,
David Rinker
dcrink at widomaker.com
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Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 08:33:31 -0700
From: Simon McLaren <smclaren at rmi.net>
Subject:
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Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 10:44:24 -0500
From: William D Gladden <W_GLADDEN at Mail.Co.Chester.PA.US>
Subject: Sum:extract/head responses
From: Bill Gladden
RE: Summary of responses on extract beer head retention
Sorry the summary took so long .... don't you hate it when work
gets in the way! Thanks to all who responded with suggestions to
increase head retention in extract based brews. They were:
- use specialty grains. Far and away the most responses.
Many suggested #1/2 - #1 Crystal Malt.
Some suggested mashing with some #1/2 - #1 Dextrin/Carapils
- One respondent reported using 8 oz. of malto dextrin in a 5
gallon batch of ale as an experiment. No final data yet, but
seems to be a success. Used this so that mashing was not
needed.
- Others noted the myriad of non-grain related variables: how to
wash glasses 101; fresh hops are critical, etc....
- Use of Laaglander (or extracts with more unfermentables) was
suggested.
- I noticed a recent post citing that water can even impact
extract brews and plan on looking into that since I suspect
our well water is pretty hard even though it goes through a
filter/softening system.
Thanks all - Bill Gladden
"Here's a cheer for better beer"
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Date: 25 Mar 1996 07:51:42 U
From: "Palmer.John" <palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com>
Subject: B-Brite Is...
B-Brite is Sodium PERcarbonate and sodium silicate. The PER is from an extra
oxygen ie. (I think!) Na2CO3 going to Na2CO4. That may not be right, my college
chemistry book didnt mention percarbonates by name. Anyway, the upshot is that
there is a Hydrogen Peroxide effect in sodium percarbonate that provide a
degree on sanitizing ability as well as increased cleaning capability. The
Sodium silicate is an inhibiter which protects metals against corrosion.
-John
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Date-Warning: Date header was inserted by TITAN.SFASU.EDU
From: JMOORE at sfasu.edu (john Moore)
Subject: "Tygon" tubing safe?
Does the "collective intelligence" out there know if Tygon brand tubing is
safe for use with racking canes?
TIA
John Moore
f_moorejt at titan.sfasu.edu
"If we were all the same some of you would be unnecessary"
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Date: Mon, 25 Mar 96 10:07:39 CST
From: Larry N. Lowe <lnl at apwk01g3.abrfc.noaa.gov>
Subject: Bass Ale recipe (extract please)
i just tried Bass Ale. i would like to make something close. i perfer
extract recipes, but i can closely approximate the appropriate grain
to extract (i hope). TIA
- --
from: Larry N. Lowe
NOAA, National Weather Service
Arkansas-Red Basin River Forecast Center
10159 East 11th St, Suite 300
Tulsa, Oklahoma 74128-3050
lnl at apwk01g3.abrfc.noaa.gov
Off: (918)832-4109 FAX: (918)832-4101
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Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 11:12:36 -0500 (EST)
From: Jim Busch <busch at eosdev2.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Filtering, continued
Tom says:
me:
>As for lackluster beers from filtering, this can be a result of micro-
>filtration which is sterile filtration below 1 micron. I feel this is
>very undesirable.
<Why do you feel it very undesirable? I think there is a definite point
<where micro-filtration strips beer of too much protein, but I have not
<found any definitive guide as to what level is harmful. The level may
<depend on the number and sizes of proteins left in the finished, pre-
<filtered beer, which of course varies widely based on process and
<ingredients. I currently use 1 micron and .5 micron absolute (99.9% eff.)
<filters for lagers and some light ales (pale ale, IPA, Koelsch, etc.) and
<have not noticed a lack of body or head retention.
There are no absolutes and this is certainly up to the brewers preference.
Sterile filtration is generally done at .45 microns. Proteins are a
big part of mouthfeel and duration of foam stand. If you are happy with
the carts you are using and the results then stick to it. I prefer to
chill the kegs for a week at 32F, then filter at 3-5 mikes. I get
better hop aroma with this method over finer filtration. I also prefer
the beer overall, mouthfeel and body/malt character.
<Do you have a reference for the range of yeast sizes? Anybody? The range
I remember but don't have a reference for is .8 - 5 micron.
I think that very few survive below a 3 micron filtration. Mature beer
in the tank should have very few small cells.
<I also would like
<to point out that filtering at the 3-5 micron level produces clear
<but not brilliant beer. There is no comparison in clarity between a
< .5 micron filtered and a 5 micron filtered beer.
This is true in some cases. This is where you have to differentiate
between haze and yeast turbidity. Haze can be reduced through different
methods than filtration, and the success of this will vary with the
brewhouse, raw materials and fermentation methods. This is an area
where trub formation and removal is essential. My preference is to
remove yeast with a filter or by aging/cold conditioning and deal with
haze seperately. (BTW, push those boils as vigorous as your kettle
can handle, many homebrewers boils are not vigorous enough to produce
brilliant wort, you should look at some of the boils achieved in
steam systems where even 30% freeboard is barely adequate to contain
the wort).
<I'd like to have a 3 micron filter for some styles too, but those
cartridges are expensive!
Thats why Im a fan of the ~$5 disposable versions sold by Crystal Clear.
The price per use is higher than the reusable ones but the ease of use
and numerous pore sizes available are attractive. It is also more cost
effective as your brewlength increases. If Im filtering 1 BBL of beer
through a $5 filter and spending no time cleaning, then Im ahead of
the game over a $35 filter that will take me 30 minutes each time I
have to use it to clean (not to mention that you could never push
1 BBl of beer through a .5 or 1 micron resuable cart without backflushing).
Brew on,
Jim Busch
Colesville, Md
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