---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  kilt / grain mill motor ("Keith Royster")
  First Wort Hopping (Jim Busch)
  Yeast Rehydration (Algis R Korzonas)
  Sparge/Not Sparge. (Russell Mast)
  Re: ploidy in yeast, more on filtering ("Tracy Aquilla")
  Dishwasher sanitization (Rosenzweig,Steve)
  California Common (Kelly Heflin)
  Iowa City Homebrew Classic (Wolfe)
  Red ale color request ("Taber, Bruce")
  all-grain ("Jeremy E. Mirsky")
  Sixth Annual March Mashfest Results (Brian J Walter (Brewing Chemist))
  Oklahoma beer laws (Mark Taratoot)
  Sarasota, FL (RUSt1d?)
  Re: Grain. Convince me. (David North)
  mini beer batches (Gregory King)
  Dry Hopping in a Corny Keg (cisco)
  Beer Temperature (Clay Crenshaw)
  Miller and the heart of the hop. (Jeff Smith)
  BreWater 1.05 Brewing Water Synthesis Utility (KennyEddy)
  10 gallon recipes (Paul.Lambie)
  AHA Conf Roommate (Jim Liddil)
  2,3 Pentanedione (TMartyn)
  Adjustments from 5 to 10 gallon batches (Keith Chamberlin)
  Least attenuative/amylase/sugars/filtering/iodophor/fill level/colour (Algis R Korzonas)
  Cleaning chemicals (SandBrew)
  New RIMS Owner (ShoeJ)
  Iodophor concentrations (Louis Gordon)
  Munich Helles Stinks ("Barry Blakeley")
  RIMS Pump (russ tjepkema)



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 11:14:05 -0500
From: "Keith Royster" <keith.royster at ponyexpress.com>
Subject: kilt / grain mill motor

In HBD#1993 Bob Rogers worries about the effects of brewing a dry 
stout while wearing a kilt.  While the plaid may have detrimental 
effects on this style of brew, I would think that wearing a kilt 
might actually be beneficial for other recipies.  For example, 
Papazian's Goat Scrotum Ale.... and now for something completely 
different......
- -----------------------------------------------------------------

I also have a quick question that is slightly brewing related:  I
recently found a discarded trash compactor that I thought might be a
good source for a motor to motorize my grain mill.  But once I
dismantled the thing, I found the motor to have 5 wires attached to
it, instead of the expected 2 (electrons in, electrons out).  Also,
there seems to be some sort of mechanical spring-loaded lever/switch
attached to it running parallel to the axis.  I imagine that the
extra wires may have something to do with reversing the direction of
the motor, and maybe the switch does too.  Any body out there have
any idea how to wire this thing, and what the heck is the switch for?
Any help is appreciated.  

Keith Royster - Keith.Royster at ponyexpress.com
 at your.service - http://www.wp.com/ at your.service/
 Web Services - Starting at just $60 per YEAR!
  Voice & Fax - (704) 663-1098

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Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 11:24:49 -0500 (EST)
From: Jim Busch <busch at eosdev2.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: First Wort Hopping

The talk of first wort hopping is interesting indeed.  I just
wanted to point out that this is generally a Pilsner beer procedure,
and may or may not be directly appicable to general beer styles, in
particular the more agressively hoppy ales with their multiple hop
additions.

A couple of points:

Generally used only with low alpha high quality aroma hops, since 
these are the hops used in Pils.  Thats why the kettle IBUs should
not be altered.

Pils beers are seldom hopped later than 20 minutes before knockout.

Hopping in the whirlpool should give drastically altered hop aroma
qualities than hopping at 20 minutes, or at 90+ minutes, or dry.

Pils beers have an intense depth of hop complexity.  They are not
simple beers to make.  The aroma contributions should not be obtained
from dry hopping and comparing one with the other is futile.

Jim Busch
                     A Victory For Your Taste!
		     Now tapping:
                     Victory Festbier, Brandywine Valley Lager,
		     HopDevil IPA, Prima Pils, Milltown Cask Mild and
		     St. Victorious Doppelbock

http://wanda.pond.com/~clrleaf/victory/Victory.html

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Date: Mon, 25 Mar 96 10:22:52 CST
From: korz at pubs.ih.att.com (Algis R Korzonas)
Subject: Yeast Rehydration

Ross writes:
>I would have to agree with Al on the overkill.
>Over the years at the BOP, we used various dried yeasts,
>including Nottingham, Whitbread, Edme and Mauri. 
>15 grams were rehydrated in +/- 250 ml of cooled wort, 10 to 15
>minutes prior to pitching in approx. 53 liters (14 US gallons) of
>wort, cooled to 72 to 76 degrees F and well aerated. Fermenters
>were then moved to a temperature controlled room held at 68 F.

Depending on what you mean by "cooled wort" I see one problem and
one potential problem with your procedure.  Firstly, it is not
recommended to rehydrate yeast in wort.  Dried yeast first want
water and the sugars in wort mean that the yeast see a different
osmotic pressure than from plain water and it makes it harder for
them to properly rehydrate.  I've found in my own experience, that
rehydrating dried yeast in cooled (75F) wort has tripled lag times.

The potenial problem is what you mean by "cooled wort."  If you
mean cooled to 110F, then it's not as bad as 70F wort, but not as
good as 110F water.

Again, this is all from experience and from a Newsletter published
by Lallemand (makers of Nottingham, Windsor, etc.).

Al.

Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz at pubs.att.com
Copyright 1996 Al Korzonas

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Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 10:30:57 -0600
From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com>
Subject: Sparge/Not Sparge.


Well, dangnabbit.  I recently said "If you're doing all grain, you don't have
a sparge" when I meant "If you're doing EXTRACT, you don't have a sparge."

Not sure how I made that error, but it looks like I've confused the dickens
out of tons of people.  I do all-grain, and, yeah, I do have a sparge.  Sorry
for the cornfusion.  I'll be more careful next time.

 -R

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Date: Mon, 25 Mar 96 11:30:23 CST
From: "Tracy Aquilla" <aquilla at salus.med.uvm.edu>
Subject: Re: ploidy in yeast, more on filtering

In Digest #1992:
Michael Coen <COEN.MICHAEL at igate.pprd.abbott.com> wrote:

"All this talk of mutations and genetic drift.  I would think, naively
maybe, that a brewing yeast would be unusually stable in its genetic
makeup since there are multiple copies of each gene.  Unless a mutation
was dominant I would think the chances of getting a really detrimental
change in brewing character would be extremly remote.  Just a
thought."

Good point. However, while in the vegetative stage of its life-cycle (i.e.
budding, not sporulating), S. cerevisiae is haploid. Interestingly, S.
uvarum is diploid, hence it might actually be more stable. Relatively
speaking, brewers' yeast is pretty stable genetically. As mentioned
previously I believe, the most common problematic mutations in yeast occur
in the mitochondrial genome (respiratory mutants).


and fitz at fasicsv.fnal.gov (Tom Fitzpatrick)
Subject: Re: Filtering

"I was also under the impression (sorry, no reference) that "sterile" 
filtration was accomplished below .3 micron (also called "cold" filter-
ing, like MGD lite ice?). Anyone out there have any firm numbers on 
filtering to remove all yeast and bacteria?"

Jim was probably referring to the fact that with a 1 micron filter, you'll
definitely be removing all of the yeast and most likely all of the bacteria.
However, it's true that 0.22 microns is considered the standard for sterile
filtration, but as mentioned previously, there are bacteria even smaller
than this. Whether a particular filter yields a sterile product is highly
dependent on the bacterial load and the size of the bacterial contaminants
present.

Jim writes on p. 24 of BT Jan/Feb '96:
"Yeast cell sizes tend to fall in the 5 - 10 micron range, which is why
a rough or polish filtration is usually done at 5 microns."

and Michael responds:
"Do you have a reference for the range of yeast sizes? Anybody? The range 
I remember but don't have a reference for is .8 - 5 micron."

In Malting and Brewing Science (2nd. ed. volume II), see the chapters on
yeast taxonomy and yeast biology (can't remember which, but there's a chart).
    Tracy in Vermont
    aquilla at salus.med.uvm.edu


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Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 08:38:56 PST
From: Steve_Rosenzweig at wb.xerox.com (Rosenzweig,Steve)
Subject: Dishwasher sanitization

Jon Vilhauer writes in HBD 1992:

>     I've never been able to see much sense in using a dishwasher
>for beer bottles.  It seems unlikely that much wash water ever gets
>inside.  If it's heat we want, wouldn't the oven be better?

I use about a cup of bleach in the dishwasher in a normal cycle.  I 
 too, was skeptical at first of the sanitization possibilities, but 
 since I start with fairly clean bottles anyway, I figured what the 
 heck - I hated my old bottle sanitizing method so much anything was 
 worth a try.

On the first batch of bottles, I opened the dishwasher in the middle of 
 the cycle and _whoosh_ I got a whiff of a cloud of hot chlorinated 
 steam!  I figure even if the _water_ isn't getting directly into the 
 bottles, the chlorinated steam is, so that should provide adequate 
 sanitization, especially in conjunction with the heated drying cycle!  

I started kegging due to my aversion to bottling, but now I'm swinging 
 the other way.  I'll still keep a few kegs going, but I'll short fill 
 a keg,  fill a few bottles, and top off the keg with CO2 - hey what if 
 I want to enter a particular batch in a contest?  This way I've got a 
 few samplers as well as potential yeast cultures!  (Although this 
 could give me an excuse to buy/build a counter pressure filler!  ;-> )

Using the dishwasher takes all the scut work out of bottling - now its 
 downright enjoyable!  Even clean up is easier when you do the bottling 
 on the opened door - just close the door and rinse when you are done!

Anyway - the proof is in the beer as they say, and I've been working 
 (?) through several batches bottled with this method - and I've yet to 
 find a bad one!   (? if only drinking brew were work! - I'd be Michael 
 Jackson!)

Stephen


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Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 11:56:43 -0500
From: Kelly Heflin <kheflin at monmouth.com>
Subject: California Common

Someone wrote about a week ago, that their california common yeast 
was still going after a long time. I transferred mine to secondary
yesterday after fermenting 8 days in primary. I was a little disapointed
with the gravity, 1.018. Well I'm happy to say within about 8 hours 
there was an inch layer of foam and it was bubbling well.

I guess that stuff just keeps ..going, and going..

I just got my copy of sudssw. Put in all the stuff for this Steam 
Beer I'm talking about. I'm right at the upper limit for this style
on gravity and alchol percent, but I'm way over on the bittering
scale. I used 2 oz. of Northern Brewer. These things said they were
9.5% . All the recipes I looked at said 2 oz of Northern Brew. Maybe
theirs were lesser percents.

I also used 1 oz of cascade for finishing.

1 of the north brew was only boiled for a half hour. 

It was 1.056 gravity to start.

Is it gonna be too hoppy? (I'm not worried, just wondering.)

About that Suds program. I heard there were recipes in it. Anybody
know anything about that. (Yes I plan on registering it as soon as
I know if I can use it.)

see ya
kelly

Kelly C. Heflin	
kheflin at monmouth.com


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Date: Mon, 25 Mar 96 10:56:48 CST
From: Wolfe at act.org
Subject: Iowa City Homebrew Classic

The 1ST IOWA CITY HOMEBREW CLASSIC

WHEN:  May 18th, 1996.  Judging begins at 10 AM.  Awards at 6 PM.

WHERE:  Iowa City, Iowa

CATEGORIES:  We'll accept entries in all AHA beer and mead styles (no cider
          or sake).  Categories may be combined for style categories in
          which fewer than 7 entries are received.

JUDGING:  Every entry will be judged by at least one BJCP judge.  Score
          sheets will be returned for all entries.  Contact Ed Wolfe if you
          are interested in judging.

AWARDS:  First, second, and third place ribbons will be awarded in all
          categories.  Winners will be advanced to Best of Show judging.
          First, second, and third place ribbons and prizes will be awarded
          in the Best of Show Beer and in the Best of Show Mead judging.

MIDWEST BREWER:  Midwest brewers who are awarded ribbons in this
          competition gain points toward the 1996 Midwest Homebrewer of the
          Year Award.  The Iowa City Homebrew Classic is the third of five
          Midwest Homebrewer competitions.  Contact Dennis Davisson for
          more information about the program (414-545-9246).

ENTRIES:  Send TWO bottles (brown or green glass, blackened crown capped,
          with no labels or other identifying marks) with a bottle label
          attached with rubber bands (NO TAPE) and an entry form and entry
          fees.  We're using the standard AHA bottle labels and entry
          forms.  Entry fees are $5/entry for 1-3 entries and $4/entry for
          4 or more entries).  Make checks payable to THIRSTY.

SHIPPING:  Send your entries to:

          1st ICHC
          c/o Ed Wolfe
          5118 Morse Road
          Iowa City, IA  52240

          THE ENTRY DEADLINE IS MAY 10th.

QUESTIONS:  Call Ed Wolfe at 319-643-7354 or email him at wolfe at avalon.net
          or visit the THIRSTY Home Brew Page at
          http://www.avalon.net/~wolfe/THIRSTY.html


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Date: Mon, 25 Mar 96 12:02:00 EST
From: "Taber, Bruce" <BRUCE.TABER at NRC.CA>
Subject: Red ale color request


I just popped the cap on my first attempt at a 'light' ale and I'm happy to 
report that it passed the ultimate test ...... my wife likes it !  I must 
admit, I think it's pretty good too.  The color is typical commercial swill 
blond but the flavor is definitely 'premium'.

I'm the guy who had the nerve to request a Budmilloors recipe from the 
collective a few months back.  I typically brew dark, full body ales but I 
wanted something closer to commercial beer for my guests.  I used the 
recipes that were sent to me to formulate my own attempt that uses  rice as 
the adjunct and only 1 oz. of Saaz to bitter.

Anyway, I think I'll do another batch since the nice weather is approaching 
(is this the longest winter on record or what), but I can't bring myself to 
ever make the exact same beer twice.  I would like to make a similar ale but 
with a distinctive 'red' hue.  My first thoughts are to try 2 oz. (60g) of 
roast barley OR 1/2 lb. (250g) of Munich malt in the same colorless base.  I 
don't want to change the flavor much, just the color.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.   TIA

Bruce Taber  (we've still got snow in Ottawa)
taber at irc.lan.nrc.ca

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Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 11:14:12 -0600 (CST)
From: "Jeremy E. Mirsky" <mirsjer at charlie.acc.iit.edu>
Subject: all-grain


The obvious consensus is that all grain is superior to extract brewing.

But, for the intimidated novice, the information overload is frustrating:
ph - conversion - runoff - etc.....

I've heard of the Gott cooler method, but it wasn't very clear to me.
I understand that the total ingredient cost is less, but what about
equipment?  I currently use a 5 gal. enamelled canning pot for extract
recipes.
What do I really have to know about water ph, starch conversion, etc.?

If I do this, I'd like to do it as cheaply as possible.

BTW, the last post I made received numerous helpful responses.  Again, I
would like to thank everyone.
\
<Wow, this brewing stuff can really drive someone to drink!>

Jeremy
mirsjer at charlie.acc.iit.edu



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Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 10:24:31 -0700 (MST)
From: walter at lamar.ColoState.EDU (Brian J Walter (Brewing Chemist))
Subject: Sixth Annual March Mashfest Results

Sixth Annual March Mashfest Results

This Mashfest has been our most successful to date.  201 entries were 
collected and judged Friday and Saturday March 22-23, 1996.  The Mash 
Tongues would like to thank all who entered and all who made the trip to 
Fort Collins to judge.  

Best of Show Beer (180 Beer Entries)
	Tony DeMarse, Greeley CO	Brewnion Colony
	May Q-P Honey Wheat		Specialty, Classic Style American Wheat

Best of Show Mead (21 Mead Entries)
	Scott Mills, Ft Collins CO	Mash Tongues
	Mighty Fine Wine		Traditional Mead


Lagers (19 Entries)
First Place
	Dave Shaffer, Lafayette CO	
	Lizard Head Lager
Second Place
	Cory Buenning, Conifer CO		Hop Barley & the Ale'ers
	Dark Side Lager
Third Place
	Bill Irwin, Littleton			Foam on the Range
	Kolsch 5				Kolsch

Pale Ales (19 Entries)
First Place
	Gregory Cross, Rocky Ford CO	
	Broken Heel IPA				IPA
Second Place
	Dave Shaffer, Lafayette CO
	Mullethead Ale
Third Place
	Bill Irwin, Littleton CO		Foam on the Range
	EPA #3					English Pale Ale

English Bitters (16 Entries)
First Place
	John Leazer, Ft Collins CO		Mash Tongues
	Firelight ESB				English Special Bitter	
Second Place
	Patrick Moore, Englewood CO	
	Tingling Nosehair ESB			English Special Bitter
Third Place
	Scott Mindrebo, Lake Jackson TX		Brew Bayou

(Hoppy) Cold-Conditioned Ales (13 Entries)
First Place
	Dave Cuthbert, Ft Collins CO		Mash Tongues
	Uncommon				CA Common
Second Place
	Keith Schwols, Ft Collins CO		Mash Tongues
	Alt Enough To Drink			Altbier
Third Place
	John Landreman, Colorado Springs CO
	Wildcard Alt				Altbier

Scottish Ales & Porters (14 Entries)
First Place
	Dave Shaffer, Lafayette CO
	Storm Peak Porter			Porter
Second Place
	Brian Kelly, Denver CO			Deep Wort
	Pests Porter				Porter
Third Place
	Larry Pyeatt, Ft Collins CO		Mash Tongues
	Easy Trails Porter			Porter

Brown Ales (18 Entries)
First Place
	Larry Pyeatt, Ft Collins CO		Mash Tongues
	Easy Trails Mild Brown Ale		
Second Place
	Roger Whyman, Littleton CO		The Unfermentables
	Bear Creek Brown Ale II			
Third Place
	Richard Morris, Jr., Colo Springs CO	
	Twink's Brown Ale

Stout Beers (20 Entries)
First Place
	Bruce DeBolt, Lake Jackson TX		Brew Bayou
	Oyster Creek Stout
Second Place
	John Leazer, Ft Collins CO		Mash Tongues
	Knockout Stout - Round 4
Third Place
	Paul Rasey, Milliken CO			Brewnion Colony
	Shamrock Stout

Wheat Beers (14 Entries)
First Place
	Mark Groshek, Denver CO			The Unfermentables
	Wunschloses Ungluck Weizenbier		German Weizen
Second Place
	John Landreman, Colorado Springs CO	
	Bison Weizen				German Weizen
Third Place
	John Adams, Westminister CO		Keg Ran Out Club (KROC)
	A Chicken In Every Pox

Belgian & Strong Ales (20 Entries)
First Place
	Richard Mincer, Cheyenne WY		High Plains Drafters
	Trifurcated Trippel Strong Ale		Belgian Tripel
Second Place
	Ray Poarch, Arvada CO			The Unfermentables
	(Not Named)
Third Place
	Mark DeMay, Ft Collins CO		Mash Tongues
	Brain Lubrication			

Smoked & Specialty Beers (12 Entries)
First Place
	Tony DeMarse, Greeley CO		Brewnion Colony
	May Q-P Honey Wheat			Specialty, Honey Amer Wheat
Second Place
	Keith Schwols, Ft Collins CO		Mash Tongues
	Dragon's Belch				Rauchbier
Third Place
	Brian Walter, Ft Collins CO		Mash Tongues
	Winter Rye				Specialty Beer, Rye

Fruit & Herb Beers (16 Entries)
First Place
	Jim Suhoza, El Dorado CA		Haze
	Chilly Willy				Chile Beer
Second Place
	Scott Mills, Loveland CO		Mash Tongues
	Flower Power				Rosewater Beer
Third Place
	William Geithman, Erie CO		Keg Ran Out Club (KROC)
	Son of CBS				Raspberry Cocoa Stout

Meads (21 Entries)
First Place
	Scott Mills, Loveland CO		Mash Tongues
	Mighty Fine Wine			Traditional Mead
Second Place
	John Carlson, Denver CO			Hop Barley & the Ale'ers
	Crystal Meth				Mint and Cranberry Honey
Third Place
	Keith Schwols, Ft Collins CO		Mash Tongues
	Hot to Trot				Cinnamon, Chili Flakes
						(Hot Cinnamon)

Score sheets should be in the mail this week; target date is Thursday. 
Direct any comments or questions to 
Brian Walter,  walter at lamar.colostate.edu

Brian J Walter        | Homebrewer, Certified | walter at lamar.colostate.edu
Chem grad - CO St Univ| Beer Judge & President|           RUSH Rocks Best!
Fort Collins, CO      | Mash Tongues Brew Club| GB Packers-11 X NFL Champs


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Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 09:25:08 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Taratoot <taratoot at PEAK.ORG>
Subject: Oklahoma beer laws

Bernie wrote:

> I was in Oklahoma briefly this winter and took a trip to the local beer 
> store near Oklahoma City. I found that most of the "good beers" were 
> unavailable cold. The store clerk informed me that it was state law that 
> beer over a certain alcohol percentage could not be sold cold. (Probably 
> so it would not be consumed too fast). 


No, they are just looking out for our better interests.  Most beer is sold
cold -- too cold to drink.  So you have to take it home and let it sit out
for quite a while before it warms to the correct serving temperature. 
Oklahoma is doing us a great favor by not over-chilling their beer so it
is ready to drink sooner! 

- --
Mark Taratoot            "...though my problems are meaningless,
taratoot at peak.org         that don't make them go away."     
                                                         -Neil Young


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Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 12:26:11 -0500
From: RUSt1d? <rust1d at swamp.li.com>
Subject: Sarasota, FL

Here we go again....

I will be traveling to Sarasota, FL soon and would like to know where to go
to support my beer drinking hobby/habit. Locations within 50 miles would
be nice.

John Varady
Boneyard Brewing


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Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 12:38:36 -0500
From: dnorth at ijco.com (David North)
Subject: Re: Grain. Convince me.

Howard asks about switching from extract to all grain in #1992.  His view
point was so close to my own I felt it was worth delurking for.

I was also an experienced extract brewer and it was getting to the point
that most of my batches were partial mashes with varying amounts of pale
malt.  It was taking most of an afternoon anyway so a few batches ago I took
the plunge. With my environment and equipment I think it is probably easier
now than what I was doing before.  Mostly because my mash/lauter tun is the
same vessel now (a Gott cooler) and I don't have to mess with that nasty
extract.  The length of time is about the same, but I have much more time
during the session to do other things.  The quality is good, but is was
before so I'm not sure that is a big deal.  I expect it will give me more
flexibility in recipes and styles.

When I made the switch I was thinking that I would still do extract batches
and I probably will, but at this point I don't have any great urge to do so.
It would have to be pretty much of a straight extract batch for me to do it.

Finally, grain is cheaper than extract, but that is not as cool as turning
all that starchy grain into sweet wort!  I say go for it.  It is more fun
and in my case, easier.

David North
Knoxville


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Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 13:18:41 -0500 (EST)
From: Gregory King <GKING at ARSERRC.Gov>
Subject: mini beer batches

In HBD #1992 Russell Mast (rmast at fnbc.com) wrote:

>I've made several one-gallon all-grain batches, using improvised equipment.
>(Often as "yeast starters" but, hey, why dump the liquid, especially if it's
>not that much extra trouble to make it tasty?)

I'm also in the practice of drinking the spent wort from my yeast starters
(this stuff is essentially beer, right?).  In fact, I've been pleasantly
surprised at how good it tastes, and I just use light DME and a few hops
pellets (I admit that I'm not expecting to taste great beer at this point).

Preparing miniworts for yeast starters with DME involves boil times of about
15 minutes, which is in the right time range for achieving good hop flavor
utilization.  Now whenever I build a yeast starter I try to increase my hops
knowledge by using a type of hops in the miniwort that I haven't brewed with
yet.

Greg King
gking at arserrc.gov


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Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 11:51:41 -0600 (CST)
From: cisco at tabasco.ccit.arizona.edu
Subject: Dry Hopping in a Corny Keg


>Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 11:58:27 -0500 (EST)
>From: "Michael E. Ladue" <Mike.Ladue at cle.ab.com>
>Subject: Dry Hopping in a Corny Keg
>
>What is the technique for dry hopping in a Corny keg?  I know that it's
>possible, I'm just not sure how to do it.
>
>One method that I've heard of is to just put your hop pellets in the
>keg...no sock, no marble, no nuthin'.  Supposedly, it creates a hop bed
>that floats on the beer, imparting itself in a uniform matter into the
>beer.  You'd be using the keg as a secondary fermenter or serving out of
>it at this point.

This is a good way to get a clogged pick up tube or connector. Any 
hops,whether pellets or leaf, must be contained in a pourous
container. I dry hop with both leaf and pellets and use those
fine mesh nylon bags that are about 6 inches square and close
with a draw string. I then use a racking cane tube plastic clamp, attach
the tied up bag to the clamp and run the string inside the backside
of the clamp that attaches to the pick up tube( you need to do this
because the the cornelius keg's pick up tube is a slightly smaller
diameter than the plastic racking cane tubes that this clamp
was designed for.) I then attach this down low on the cornelius
keg's pick up tube - just low enough so that the bag will not
interfere with the opening of the pick up tube. This keeps the hops
totally submerged rather than floating on the surface and nothing
gets near or interferes with the pick up tube (all my pick up tubes
have at least a half inch cut off the bottom).

I've been using this setup for quite a while with no problems. I 
much prefer it to dry hopping in the secondary, it takes a lot
less hops also. I use 1/4 oz to 1/2 oz. There is no need to use any
more than 1/2 oz because this system is sooooo efficient.
 

John 'Cisco' Francisco
Senior Applications Systems Analyst
University of Arizona 
Office: (520) 621-6727 Pager: (520) 218-0925
http://aruba.ccit.arizona.edu/~cisco/


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Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 14:16:33 -0500
From: ccrenshaw at mail.utexas.edu (Clay Crenshaw)
Subject: Beer Temperature

Howdy Fellow Zymurgists:

I've often been told by 'laymen' that after beer has been refigerated, its
quality will be compromised if it's allowed to warm back up.  Is there any
truth to this?  If so, does it apply to homebrew as well as store-bought?
What actually happens to the beer when the temperature fluctuates like
this?

TIA for the feedback,
Clay

"If we first bulid up the nobler part of our nature [yeast starter], then
the inferior part [nasty beasties] cannot overcome it"  -Mencius, 3rd
century B.C. Chinese philosopher



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Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 14:40:59 -0600 (CST)
From: snsi at win.bright.net (Jeff Smith)
Subject: Miller and the heart of the hop.

I haven't tasted the new Miller yet but I keep thinking aren't they the
geniuses who came up with "Clear Beer"?

Just a Thought.

Jeff Smith | '71 HD Sprint 350SX | snsi at win.bright.net | Barnes, WI
"It's just like tractors, some tractors do some tractors don't."


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Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 16:00:52 -0500
From: KennyEddy at aol.com
Subject: BreWater 1.05 Brewing Water Synthesis Utility

As promised, my brewing water synthesis utility is now posted for download at

ftp://users.aol.com/kennyeddy/water/brewater.zip

You'll need VBRUN300.DLL in your \WINDOWS\SYSTEM directory.  If you don't
have it, you can get it from any software downlaod library; I put a
compressed version at

ftp://users.aol.com/kennyeddy/files/vbrun.zip

This version of BreWater (1.05) appears to be "bug-free" but if you do notice
anything goofy going on please let me know.  It's freeware so you can share
it with others without registration.

Twenty-six "target profiles" are included, gleaned from a variety of
published sources.  Two sample completed worksheets are also included.
 BreWater includes a help document which is basically the same thing as the
water chemistry primer I uploaded a few days ago.

To keep things simple(r), I limited the additives to epsom salt, baking soda,
chalk, non-iodized "table salt", calcium chloride dihydrate, and gypsum.  All
of these are readily available additives, although I have had trouble
locating CaCl2 (but I haven't looked that hard -- any suggestions?).  While
not all targets can be precisely synthesized using only these salts, a great
many can be well-approximated.

Salt measures are automatically scaled when changing water volume, and you
have your choice of measurement units (teaspoons or grams of salts, gallons
or litres of water).  Salt measures can be typed in or scroll-bars dragged
while resulting concentrations of calcium, sulphate, magnesium, sodium,
chloride, carbonate, hardness, and alkalinity are conntinually updated.  A
dilution function allows you to experiment with diluting "your" water in
addition to making salt additions.  Printing, loading, and saving of profiles
and worksheets is implemented.

I hope you find it to be useful.

Ken Schwartz
KennyEddy at aol.com

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Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 13:12 -0800 (PST)
From: Paul.Lambie at ncal.kaiperm.org
Subject: 10 gallon recipes

I've been brewing 5 gallon all-grain recipes and plan to try a 10 gallon
batch this weekend.  Jim Dipalma recently wrote that scaling up from
5 to 10 gallons is not linear particularly with regard to darker specialty
malts and recommended multiplying by a factor of 1.5 for these grains.
Hop utilization also changes with batch size - is there a significant
difference in utilization between 5 and 10 gallons so that adjustments
in hops need to be made?  Any other suggestions for increasing my batch
size to 10 gallons?  Any experiences or references would be appreciated.

Paul Lambie
P3 Brewers

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Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 15:15:20 -0700 (MST)
From: Jim Liddil <JLIDDIL at AZCC.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: AHA Conf Roommate

I am looking for a roommate for the AHA conference in June. If you are
interested or know of someone who is please contact me via private e-mail

Jim Liddil
jliddil at azcc.arizona.edu

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Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 17:39:11 -0500
From: TMartyn at aol.com
Subject: 2,3 Pentanedione

In #1991, Russell Mast properly corrected my post about the presence (or not)
of honey notes in L'Achouffe.  Sorry, I got my threads mixed up.  Right, 2,3
pentanedione is not produced by honey, its a vicinal diketone that <tastes>
like honey.  I'm going home to drink a beer in penance.

In #1993, AJ explained the process by which 2,3 pd if formed, and suggested
to produce it, select a strain that favors 2,3 pd over diacetyl.  The beer I
referenced in #1988 was fermented with Wyeast 2206, which is a fairly good
diacetyl reducer, but I've never heard or read that it produces 2,3 pd above
the taste threshhold.  So what were the mash/ferment conditions that would
have created such an obvious 2,3 pd level?

I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but I'm really curious.

Tom Martyn
TMartyn at aol.com
Brattleboro, VT

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Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 18:43:01 -0500
From: Keith Chamberlin <Keith.A.Chamberlin at gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Adjustments from 5 to 10 gallon batches

Jim Dipalma writes in HBD #1993:
>BTW, you're eventually going to discover that there is more to
>scaling up to 10 gallon recipes than simply doubling the ingredients in a 5
>gallon recipe. The darker specialty malts, chocolate, roasted barley, etc.,
>simply do not scale up in a linear fashion. I've been multiplying the dark
>grains in my 5 gallon recipes by 1.5, and doing some tweaking. Just something
>to be aware of when you go to brew a stout or porter on your new system.

Ok, so if you have to tweak the dark grains, is there any tweaking to be
done with the hopping?  I've heard some people say just doubling the hops is
a good place to start and you can adjust to your tastes once you get used to
the new system, but I was wondering what some others results are.  I know in
talking with Glen Tinseth that one big factor that isn't included in his hop
utilization table is how good a boil you have.  Some that do electric
stovetop boils probably don't get near the extraction of the outdoor 200,000
BTU propane cookers do.  But consider that you would be boiling the same way
what ratio change would you make to the hop addtions?  BTW thanks to all who
answered my question about iodophor calculations.

Keith



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Date: Mon, 25 Mar 96 13:40:29 CST
From: korz at pubs.ih.att.com (Algis R Korzonas)
Subject: Least attenuative/amylase/sugars/filtering/iodophor/fill level/colour

Jack writes:
>I checked the literature and it says 1084 is the
>least attenuative of the Wyeast line.

According to the literature I've gotten from Wyeast, Wyeast #1338, European
Ale, is their least attenuative yeast.

***
Bill writes:
>Amylase enzyme *creates* sweetness by converting starch into sugar.
>However, extract already has the sweetness converted (hence the name).

Well, yes and no.  Amylase converts starch into sugars *and* large sugars
into medium-sized sugars *and* medium-sized sugars into small sugars.
Generally speaking, the smaller the sugar is, the more sweet it is (i.e.
fructose is sweeter than sucrose and sucrose is sweeter than lactose).

Dextrins are not very sweet at all, but if you have a lot of them, your
beer will be sweetish.  Amylase will break down dextrins into fermentables
which will subsequently be fermented by the yeast, so the sweetness Bill
talks about won't get into your glass -- the yeast will eat it.  Amylase
will reduce sweetness if you have a very dextrinous wort.

***
Russel writes, quoting Richard:
>>   - AVOID adding large amounts of corn sugar to the recipe. 

>I'd say avoid adding -any- at all, except to prime the bottles for
>carbonation.

Well, I disagree.  You cannot make a beer like Duvel without adding some
refined sugar.  You just can't make a beer with its alcohol level and
light body by using all-malt.  Tripels and Dubbels also are going to be
too heavy if you make them all-malt.  You must add some refined sugars.
Typically the Belgian brewers use candi sugar, but white candi sugar is
just sucrose, so you can use table sugar, but the difference to the yeast
between sucrose and glucose is primarily that they don't need to create
invertase to break the sucrose down to its component glucose & frucose
molecules.  Use refined sugar when it's necessary.  The problem is when
you use 4 pounds of sugar and 3.3 pounds of malt extract -- that will make
sorry-tasting beer!

***
Tom writes (quoting Jim):
>>As for lackluster beers from filtering, this can be a result of micro-
>>filtration which is sterile filtration below 1 micron.  I feel this is
>>very undesirable.

<snip>
>I currently use 1 micron and .5 micron absolute (99.9% eff.)
>filters for lagers and some light ales (pale ale, IPA, Koelsch, etc.) and 
>have not noticed a lack of body or head retention.

You also have to consider the pressure at which you are forcing the
beer through the filter.  If you use too much pressure, you will push
yeast through a filter with a pore size smaller than a yeast cell.  Ed
Busch, at the AHA Nationals a few years ago, talked about filtering and
used a plastic bag partially filled with water as an example of a yeast
cell.  You can imagine how a bag partially filled plastic bag of water 
could fit through a hole much smaller than the actual bag dimensions, no?

What I'm saying here is that if you force the beer through the filter
at high pressure, you can push through yeast, protein, etc. making your
0.5 micron filter act more like a 3 micron filter.  I'm not saying that
this is what you're doing, Tom, but just bringing this up as a related
point.  It would explain why you don't get significant body loss from
filtering at 0.5 microns.

***
Keith writes:
>I never really sat down and figured out how much liquid iodophor to use so
>when I saw someone say they used 1/2 oz in 5 gallons I did calculate it and
>that turned out to be about 781ppm, not the recommended 12.5 ppm.  Am I
>doing something wrong?  I normally go by color, but would like to know what
>12.5 and 25 ppm equate to in gallons and ounces.  Sorry I'm not a chemist.

You assumed that all the concentrate is iodine.  The 12.5 to 25 ppm is the
level of titratable iodine you want in the finished solution.  Therefore,
1/2 ounce of concentrate per 5 gallons will give you what you want.

***
Tom writes:
>I read with interest Al Korzona's contribution on 3/22/96 regarding
>fill levels and carbonation.  Can anybody tell me why more airspace
>would give better carbonation.  I would think _more_ beer (and less
>headspace) would produce more CO2.  Also for the average tall neck
>bottle, can anyone tell me the optimum fill level?  How about for
>Grolsch or Fischer Alsace bottles?

One hypothesis is that the pressure in the bottles somehow slows the
yeast down and this is why the "very full" bottles carbonate slower
and perhaps incompletely.  As for the "optimum" fill level, I would
say between 3 and 5 cm.  If it's a 16 ounce bottle, then I would
imagine that 4 to 6 cm would be a good level.
(P.S. That should be Al Korzonas' unless you prefer Korzonas's.)

***
KennyEddy writes:
>The formula is basically to take *each* ingredient -- grain, extract, sugar,
>fruit, old nylons -- and multiply its weight in pounds times its lovibond
>color rating.  Add these all together, and divide by the batch size in
>gallons.  The lovibond rating is in degrees lovibond per pound per gallon, so
>this is why the formula works.

It works for a very small portion of the Lovibond scale.  Check out Ray
Daniels' three part series on beer colour in Brewing Techniques or the
appendix in George & Laurie Fix's Vienna/Oktoberfest/Maerzen book.

Personally, I feel that if you don't overdo any ingredient for the style,
you will get the colour right.  If you add a pound of Special B to a Pale Ale,
it will be too dark.  If you add 1/2 pound of chocolate malt to a Vienna it
will be too dark.  If you add anything but Pilsner and Dextrine malts to an
American Pilsner, it will be too dark.  If you don't use anything but DWC
Pale Ale malt in Bitter it will come out too light (all M&F Pale is borderline
too light)  Use common sense and the colour will come out in the right range
for the style.

Al.

Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz at pubs.att.com
Copyright 1996 Al Korzonas

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Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 19:43:43 -0500
From: SandBrew at aol.com
Subject: Cleaning chemicals

 Hi there. In an earlier posting, I recomended some cleaning chemicals
produced by a company out here in Denver called Five Star. In particular, a
compound called PBW is IMHO the best alkaline cleaner on the market. It
appears that I am not alone. I have gotten a copy of a letter from George Fix
to Five Star in which he states: "...I have decided in my own personal
brewing to completely switch from a caustic based cleaner to your product,
and a similar conclusion was reached in the two commercial operations (for
which he consults for). The reasons for this are the following:
(I) While the use of gloves is recommended when applying PBW (as it is for
any cleaner) PBW is nevertheless orders of magnitude safer than caustic
cleaners. In particular, problems associated with direct skin exposure are
trivial in comparison.
(II)PBW exhibited strong surface activity, remarkably so considering it is a
safe product, As far as we could determine, PBW's surfactance is as strong as
caustic cleaners. It can be used in CIP systems or manual systems with no
loss of cleaning time over what is incurred with caustic cleaning solutions.
(III) PBW has an excellent rinseability. There is a growing preference for
rinsing equiptment with cold (rather than hot) water both on the front and
back end of the cleaning cycle. PBW is well suited to such procedures, and
with a standard acid sequestering step in this cycle, residual alkalai will
not be a problem." This will be published in an upcoming article in Brewing
Techniques.  I have no interest in Five Star, I do have an interest in
promoting safe and sanitary brewing and cleaning. If you are interested in
this product you can contact Bob Nold at FiveStarAF at aol.com or at the
upcoming brewers conference in Boston. Again if any one out there has any
questions that I can help on please feel free to E-mail me.
Thanks for the bandwidth.
Wayne Waananen, Brewmaster, SandLot Brewery at Coors Field


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Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 20:05:49 -0500
From: ShoeJ at aol.com
Subject: New RIMS Owner

I have just purchased RIMS equipment from Brewcraft Ltd.  I was wondering how
different people have set up their RIMS systems.  Especially the returns to
the mashtun, and the outlets from the mashtun.  Has anyone setone up with a
GOT cooler?  A rehabbed SS keg?

Any comments will be appreciated.

Thanks

Dave

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Date: 25 Mar 96 20:35:43 EST
From: Louis Gordon <103232.1227 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Iodophor concentrations

Replying to Keith Chamberlin and others who delute iodophor until the color
looks right, 12.5 ppm equates to the following amounts:

10 Gallons = 1 Oz. = 2 Tablespoons
5 Gallons = 1/2 Oz. = 1 Tablespoon = 3 teaspoons
1 Gallon = 3/5 teaspoon = 36 drops
1 Quart = 9 drops

Don't worry, a drop is the same amount regardless of the bottle it comes out of
because of surface tension.

Louis Gordon       Minneapolis


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Date: Mon, 25 Mar 96 14:43:04 mst
From: "Barry Blakeley" <BlakeleB at den.disa.mil>
Subject: Munich Helles Stinks

     
          Hi, all!
     
          I recently brewed a Munich Helles (or as close as I can get using 
     extracts), and I noticed a rotten odor coming through the airlock.  I 
     used 6.3lb extract, some steeping grains and Wyeast 2308 Munich Lager. 
     The yeast was 5 months old (I'll never buy yeast again without 
     checking the date).
     
          It fermented at 60-75'F.  I hoped the beer would not absorb the 
     odor, but the first bottle I opened was really disgusting.  The usual 
     signs of bacterial infection are not present.
     
          What caused this odor and what should I do to prevent similar 
     occurrences in the future?
     

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
"Those aliens from the 8th dimension?  I'm looking at
  them right now!"

      Barry Blakeley        blakeleb at den.disa.mil
     Denver, Colorado

   If I had 3 stars, my opinion would be that of the
       Defense Information Systems Agency.
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%



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Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 22:15:05 -0500
From: russ tjepkema <russtj at edgenet.net>
Subject: RIMS Pump

Now that I've got my converted keg,  I want to add a RIMS pump.  I'm 
looking for sources for the small pump. My one source, for reconditioned 
pumps, was sold out and didn't expect to get anymore.  The other pumps 
he had could handle liquid temps up to 150 degrees (a little low).

   Any help appreciated

  Russ

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