HOMEBREW Digest #2001 Wed 03 April 1996

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		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

  Re: Water problems (Jim Dipalma)
  Traverse Brewing Academy/Big Primary ("Kevin A. Kutskill")
  Maple Sap,water filters (Scott Rudolph)
  hop plugs (Robert Rogers)
  re: real gross corny keg (Robert Rogers)
  cooler than room temperature brewing (Robert Rogers)
  how much wheat extract to use to get goog head retention.. (Victor J Farren)
  Re: Request recipe for Murphy's stout (Fredrik Stahl)
  Re: Hand stuck in carboy ("Braam Greyling")
  Really Stuck Ferment / High FGs (Neal Parker)
  Wyeast 1968 - London ESB strain (GSHUTELOCK)
  Trip / 6 row / Stuck hand (Ed Hitchcock)
  Re: Advice on getting that "bitter" flavor (Spencer W Thomas)
  Boiling Question (Steven Biggins)
  Wit beer, White Beer, WitBier Recipes (Steven Biggins)
  Brauwelt? ("James Hojel")
  Mini kegs (ByronOlive)
  Re: Rye in my beer (Bill Press)
  Re: Wyeast sources (Jeff Frane)
  Grain Bed Depth (Darren Gaylor)
  HBRCP - Fonts (RUSt1d?)
  LN2 results and a question (David Raitt)
  Oxygen Regulator for CO2? (Harry Houck )
  H.G. Blow-off (Athol)
  "Scale Watcher" water treatment (Art Steinmetz)
  Armchair analysis (Domenick Venezia)
  Re: Armchair analysis (Russell Mast)
  RE: keeping my cool (RZ28)
  dry taste (Algis R Korzonas)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 1 Apr 96 14:22:25 EST From: dipalma at sky.com (Jim Dipalma) Subject: Re: Water problems Hi All, In HBD#1998, Raymond Louvier writes: >As far as I can tell my water is very >high in bicarbonates but low in calcium. I've been trying to boil the >water to remove the carbonates but while reading Dave Millers book the >other night I read where you must have the right amount of calcium to >precipitate out the carbonates. >Now I seem to have a bite to all my beers and I am wondering if I'm not >getting any of the carbonates out from boiling and let sit over night. I think letting it sit overnight is the problem. The carbonate/bicarbonate (I can never quite recall the details of this reaction, which one precips out) is re-dissolving in the water as it rests overnight. Let the water rest 20-30 minutes after pre-boiling, then rack or decant into another vessel. BTW, at 33 ppm, the calcium level in your water is quite low. Add a teaspoon of either gypsum or calcium chloride to the water just before boiling. Since you're brewing light lagers, it's desirable to keep the sulfate content low, so calcium chloride is probably the better choice. ************************************************************** Also in HBD#1998, Rick Pauly writes: >I have an Ale that leaves a dryish sensation on the >roof of my mouth and it stays there a long time after swallowing >the beer. >This is a 10 gal. batch using 16# Klages 2row, 1# dextran, 1# 80L >crystal, 16 hbu pearl 90min, 6 hbu cascade 30 min, 5 hbu cascade >15 min. The water is very soft so I added 4 tbs of gypsum to the ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I believe you're adding too much gypsum to your water. I'm not sure whether you mean tablespoons or teaspoons by "tbs", but according to the information I have, 1 teapoon of gypsum added to 5 gallons of water contributes 135 ppm of sulfate. Four teaspoons in 10 gallons would be adding about 270 ppm, which is quite a lot. If you meant 4 *tablespoons*, the contribution would be 810 ppm, assuming 1 tablespoon = 3 teaspoons. When I've tasted beers that had this problem, they came across as dry, harsh, somewhat sulfury, and the taste lingered long after swallowing. The flavor you're describing sounds very similar to this. Cheers, Jim dipalma at sky.com Return to table of contents
Date: 01 Apr 96 23:45:03 EST From: "Kevin A. Kutskill" <75233.500 at compuserve.com> Subject: Traverse Brewing Academy/Big Primary (Disengage lurking cloak) Just had to tell all of you midwesterners of a great weekend to look out for next year. I went to the Traverse Brewing Academy on March 22-23 in Traverse City, Michigan. It was fantastic!! The weekend started out with a reception featuring some great microbrewed midwest beers, and an informal homebrew tasting contest on Friday nite, then a full day of homebrewing seminars with notable homebrew names such as Dan McConnell, Fred Eckhardt, Karen Barela, Randy Mosher, and Mike Urseth. Between the homebrews, microbrewed beers, and samples brought in by Phoenix Importers, there was more than 75 beers to sample! The seminars and the bonding with my fellow brewers made the weekend more than worthwhile. I highly recommend it to all next year. (insert standard disclaimer here). On to picking the collective brain: I am currently moving up to a 10-15 gallon setup for a brewery, and I am trying to come up with a good idea for a primary fermenter. The first thing that comes to mind is a Sankey keg, but I would like to seal it off as best as possible to the outside air (not ready to take the _open fermenter_ plunge). Also, I would like to have the thing air tight with a ball lock fitting on it to push the beer into cornelius secondaries with CO2, and with an opening big enough to get my arm into it to clean. Is this asking too much of a primary, or has someone done this before? Private responses ok. TIA Kevin A. Kutskill ("Dr. Rottguts") Clinton Township, MI "A homebrew a day keeps the doctor happy" Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 23:10:05 -0600 (CST) From: Scott Rudolph <rudy at execpc.com> Subject: Maple Sap,water filters First of all an overdue thank you to everyone who responded to my request for chili info; I can now pursue that endeavor with confidence. The Chili beer will have to wait on the back burner as it's time for a seasonal beer that I brewed last year and hope to improve on this year, with y'alls help I hope. I will be tapping Maple trees this weekend and will bring home ten to fifteen gallons of Maple Sap. Last year I used ten gallons of sap to make a five gallon batch of "waterless beer" instead of water I used maple sap and wort extract. I thought the result was fair, others liked it much more than I did. The maple flavor reminded me of a sherry. Since that batch I've been brewing all grain which brings me to my question. If I sparge with maple sap rather than water, will all the good maple flavor flow through or will it be trapped in the grain bed? I've been thinking about this all winter, I realize I could just use water as usual and add maple syrup to the boil; but the romance of an all maple waterless beer would not be there. Then there's the question of conversion with sap. Any suggestions on additives? I could go on, but I think that's enough on that subject. My most recent batch was a dunkel weizen, a Zymurgy recipe, it was my first decotion mash and also the first batch that I used my instapure water filter. Previous batches contained straight tap water from Appleton WI. Now the first sampling of this beer after about 3 weeks in the bottle, was undrinkable, a first for me. It tasted more like I added chlorine rather than removed it. My friends say it just needs more time, but I'm not sure. What I'm wondering is did my filter filter out the good things in the water along with the chlorine? If so, could I have easily replaced them? Or am I missing it completly and something else went wrong? Maybe it just needs more time. The beer had a very promising taste at bottling. Any thoughts, ideas, warnings, etc. are greatly appreciated. Scott Rudolph, Appleton, WI Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 02:09:33 -0500 From: bob at carol.net (Robert Rogers) Subject: hop plugs i used to use hop pellets until the brew supply store recommended hop plugs. they are a lot cooler for sure.. first, they are 1/2 oz each, so measuring is a snap. then when you throw them into the boil, they exapand out to full leaves, which are easy to scoop out with a big strainer if you are so inclined. they also have the alpha acid percentage when packaged printed on the package, which is better than nothing. bob bob rogers, bob at carol.net Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 02:09:50 -0500 From: bob at carol.net (Robert Rogers) Subject: re: real gross corny keg victor asks about lingering smell in a corny keg. i can't immagine that the stainless steel can hold an odor. take the fittings off and replace the o-rings. when you put the fittings back on use teflon tape on the threads. there could be gunk in the "out" tube. it should be easier to clean when it is out of the keg. try running something through it. bob bob rogers, bob at carol.net Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 02:11:06 -0500 From: bob at carol.net (Robert Rogers) Subject: cooler than room temperature brewing if you don't pay for your water, you could set your fermenter in a tub and run a trickle of water continuousy, that is if your tap water is the right temperature (and you don't mind spotted owl for lunch :) (yes, that is a joke) i've been doing some lagers recently, and i put the primary in a larger vat, and i fill the larger vat with water and drop plastic bottles filled with ice. when the ice melts i put them in the freezer. by varying how many "ice bombs" are in the vat at once, you can roughly control the temperature. the more water the vat holds, the more stable the temperature will be. i try to cool the bath to about 40 degrees before i transfer to the secondary, which goes in the fridge. bob bob rogers, bob at carol.net Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 1996 02:48:17 -0500 From: Victor J Farren <wigwam at jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu> Subject: how much wheat extract to use to get goog head retention.. I plan on brewing a brown ale in the next couple of days. I have had a problem with head retention and I was told that wheat extract helps a lot. I bought 1 lb. of 55% wheat and 45% barley dried extract. I am wondering if I should go ahead and use 1 lb. or 1/2lb. Can i get good head retention with just 1/2 lb. or should I go ahead and use the whole package? If I use 1 lb. will I be able to 'eat it with a spoon'? Any comments are welcome. Victor Farren Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 14:53:39 +0100 From: fredriks at abel.math.umu.se (Fredrik Stahl) Subject: Re: Request recipe for Murphy's stout I don't have any data for Murphy's, but I recently brewed a Beamish clone based on a recipe by Graham Wheeler: Berghem Beamish =============== Total volume: 22 liters 2.85 kg pale malt 160 g chocolate malt 400 g roasted barley 400 g wheat malt (!) 200 g white sugar (in kettle) 23 g Northern Brewer, pellets, 6.3% AA at 120 min 25 g Fuggles, leaf, 5% AA at 120 min 11 g Fuggles, leaf, 5% AA at 15 min Salts: 3.6 g CaCO3, 0.5 g CaCl2, 1.3 g CaSO4 and 0.3 g NaCl. Total boil time: 120 min. OG 1.041 FG 1.011 IBU 42 Mash efficiency: 70% Apparent attenuation: 72% Step mash 30 min at 43C, 45 min at 60C, 15 min at 70C and 15 min at 77C. Fermented with WYeast #1084 Irish at 19.5C. Open fermentation in primary for 5 days and closed in secondary for 8 days. The result is somewhat like Beamish but there is still some difference. It has some nice roastiness with some chocolate, which seems to be right on, but is a bit too sweet. It also has some fruity tones that I would like to eliminate. Some ideas for improvement: * change to cleaner and more attenuative yeast. Maybe YeastLab's Irish yeast is better? * ferment at lower temperature (17-18C). The hop aroma is far too strong, and the beer could need more of a "clean bite". I guess I will boil the last hop addition a bit longer, maybe for 30 min. or so. I chose to do a step mash at 40-60-70 to control the fermentability of the wort. The rest at 40C could well be shortened to 15 min., and if you cannot do a step mash, use single infusion at about 63C to get high fermentability. (If I remember correctly Graham Wheeler states that Beamish has OG 39, FG 9.5 and IBU 40.) I also tried to do a Guinness clone about a year ago: Black Hole Stout ================ Total volume: 22 liters 3.06 kg pale malt 560 g flaked barley 380 g roasted barley 56 g Goldings, plugs, 4.5% AA at 60 min 25 g Goldings, plugs, 4.5% AA at 10 min Salts: 3 g CaCO3, 1 g CaSO4 and 0.6 g NaCl. Total boil time: 60 min. OG 1.044 FG 1.013 IBU 29 Mash efficiency: 87% Apparent attenuation: 70% Single infusion 1 h 45 min at 65C. Fermented with WYeast #1028 at 20C. Closed fermentation in primary for 9 days and secondary for 11 days. I had the same problem with this as with Berghem Beamish - to sweet and too much hop aroma (even a bit "grassy"). The same comments as above apply, and maybe some other hop than Goldings should be used. The roasted character was right on, though. I chose #1028 instead of #1084 because of the higher attenuation. It's still to sweet, so I probably need to lower the mash temp to 63C (or use a step mash similar to the one above). Actually, I think Murphy's is a little sweeter and milder than both Beamish and Guinness. I also have a feeling that it has quite a pronounced roastiness, but not such a distinct chocolate tone as Beamish. I would start with a recipe with grains as in Black Hole Stout, maybe with a little chocolate but less than 80g. I would use hops like in Berghem Beamish, rescaled to get about 30-35 IBU, and boil the last addition for 30 min (or skip it altogether). Hope this is of some help, and do post the results if you give it a try. Murphy's is a wonderful ale indeed, one of my favourites! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- Fredrik Stahl Tel: int + 90 166027 Math. Dept., Umea University Fax: int + 90 165222 S-90187 Umea, SWEDEN E-mail: fredriks at abel.math.umu.se *** Nemo saltat sobrius, nisi forte insanit *** - ------------------------------------------------------------------- Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 14:56:05 +200 From: "Braam Greyling" <ACG at knersus.nanoteq.co.za> Subject: Re: Hand stuck in carboy >Oh, by the way to get my brains back out I just put some boiling water in >the carbouy and gave it a good shake and the resulting pressure blew them >back out. Maybe you can do something similar with your hand. How did you get such a brainy good idea when your brain was in the carboy ? ;-D Or did your new super intelligent carboy told you to do it ? Can it tell you now when your beer is ready for the secondary ? Braam Greyling Design Engineer Nanoteq (Pty) Ltd tel. +27 (12) 665-1338 - ---- 24 hours in a day, 24 beers in a case ---- - ---- coincidence ????? ---- Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 96 08:31:55 EST From: NParker at Lockheed.on.ca (Neal Parker) Subject: Really Stuck Ferment / High FGs Argh! I've got an extract-based ale in the carboy. OG= 1.048. Expected FG from ingredients = 1.016. It is stuck at 1.026 (even after adding a packet of dry yeast and yeast nutrient) - no action. It looked great - a lag of only 6 hrs., strong ferment. I started this brew by pitching 2 packets of Cooper's dry yeast (rehydrated) and aerated with an airstone for 45 min. I ferment in a glass carboy. Temp fluctuated from 60 to 72 F. But the real frustration of all this is that this is happening to most of my recent brews. FGs of 1.022, 1.021, 1.020, etc. when expected FG is 1.008 to 1.016. I've been using various yeasts, different brands of extract, different fermenting locations, even changing my method but I'm still left with those high FGs. Plus the beer produced hasn't been up to my standards at all. So what do I try now? I'm all equiped for all-grain but I really don't want a disaster. I've got to solve this FG thing. Are high FG's a common problem? What about going to (going back to) open ferments? Carbon filter my tap water? Pitch even more yeast? Aerate even more? Dance naked around the fermenter praying to the great yeast gods? Neal Parker nparker at lockheed.on.ca Lockheed Martin Canada Kanata, Ontario, Canada Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 08:48:52 -0500 From: GSHUTELOCK at aol.com Subject: Wyeast 1968 - London ESB strain I'm planning on making an partial mash/extract IPA this weekend (probably the "Classic IPA" recipe out of Noonan's Classic Beer Styles) and want to use up a pack of the London ESB I have before it gets to old. There's been some mention in recent HBDs about this yeast being one of the lowest attenuating of the Wyeast family. My questions are: 1) Does this mean it will just take a lot longer to ferment and/or that my FG may not hit the TG? (OG is 1.055 and TG is 1.012-1.014 per the recipe). 2) Is there anything special I should do for this yeast beyond making the usual one pint starter? Would pitching a larger starter help offset the low attenuation properties of this yeast? (I plan to aerate heavily with an Oxynater before I pitch the starter). 3) If anyone has experimented with culturing SNPA yeast from the bottle I'd be interested in how it worked out. Thanks in advance for any advice. George Shutelock (e-mail:gshutelock at aol.com) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 1996 14:04:05 GMT From: ehitchcock at sparc.uccb.ns.ca (Ed Hitchcock) Subject: Trip / 6 row / Stuck hand I'll be taking a trip from Nova Scotia through Maine, NH, Vermont, and upper NY state, crossing at Niagara Falls and on to my eventual destination of Toronto. If anyone has any recommendations for stores along this route where rare beers (Lambics etc) may be purchased or brewpubs which cannot be passed up (the name and location of Noonan's place?) I would greatly apprectiate the info. I believe e-mail is the nettiquette way to respond, but I'll find any answers poetd here too. *** David Rinker asked about 6-row in his wit. First, you probably don't have to worry about using 2-row pilsner malt, I've never had any trouble. Just do a protein rest and make sure you keep that sparge warm. As for the problems with 6-row, you shouldn't worry about clarity when brewing a wit! The other problems (tannins etc) are usually only a problem if you use 100% 6 row. 60% 6 row is not a problem at all (think of the clarity and stability of megaswill!) *** Roland Everitt asks for advice on getting his hand unstuck from the carboy. May I suggest he is actually in an enviable situation. A while ago there was a discussion on how to drill a hole in the carboy to attach a tap or nipple, until someone pointed out that once the hole was drilled it would be impossible to thread the nut on the inside anyway. Well, since Mr. Rinker already has his hand inside, he could drill the hole (using a copper tube and abrasive) and thread the nut on the inside, then simply connect his CO2 to the tap and pressurize the carboy to pop his hand back out. Remember, when using pressure and carboys always wear safety glasses. ed ehitchcock at sparc.uccb.ns.ca Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 1996 09:33:18 -0500 From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu> Subject: Re: Advice on getting that "bitter" flavor >>>>> "Frank" == Frank Ferguson x3584 <fpf at gasco.com> writes: Frank> One problem we've had is getting a truely sharp, bitter Frank> taste in our bitters. By and large, we've wound up with a Frank> tendency for a somewhat sweet and gentle bitter. What's Frank> the secret? You don't give many clues, so I'll give a scattershot answer, in the hopes that at least one of my recommendations will help. Try the following (in no particular order): 1. Add gypsum. Sulfates will help bring out the "sharp" bitterness you want. 2. Grow a big yeast starter, and aerate your wort very well when pitching. This will help the yeast ferment the wort completely, leaving you with a drier, less sweet finish. 3. Add a bit of sugar. Many British pale ales and bitters have some sugar in them. I'd suggest no more than 1/2 lb for a 1.045 beer. This will up your final alcohol without adding sweetness. With a small enough amount of sugar, there should be no bad flavor effects. 4. Try varying the extract you use. Some extracts just end up sweeter than others. The Zymurgy special issue on extract brewing may help here. They had a chart showing fermentability for several brands. You want one that is more fermentable (lower final gravity). 5. Use more bittering hops. A bitter should have 30-45 IBUs. For a full-volume boil, this corresponds to 8-11 HBUs of hops, boiled for 60 minutes. For a partial-volume boil, you might have to double the hops. 6. Boil the full volume. A partial boil will increase caramelization of the wort, producing unfermentable compounds and a flavor profile that is not desirable for a bitter. =Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI (spencer at umich.edu) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 1996 09:53:57 -0500 From: Steven Biggins <sy73308 at vantage.fmr.com> Subject: Boiling Question In my last two batches I have done a full boil on a Cajun Cooker. I start with about 6 gallons of wort and boil for 90 mins. I get a great "Rolling Boil". The problem I'm having is that I end up with 3 1/2 gals. of wort when I'm done. I guess my questions would be what actually is a "Rolling Boil" and why after 90 mins. am I getting only 3 1/2 gals of wort when I'm shooting for 5 - 5 1/2 gals. Steve B. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 1996 10:02:13 -0500 From: Steven Biggins <sy73308 at vantage.fmr.com> Subject: Wit beer, White Beer, WitBier Recipes Hello Brewing Public, I'm looking for any (All Grain) recipes for: White Beer, Wit Beer and/or Witbier. I'm sure there are places that I could look but I'm having problems with my Netscape. Any tips on brewing this style with be helpful too. TIA, Stevie B. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 96 15:46:18 UT From: "James Hojel" <JTroy at msn.com> Subject: Brauwelt? In HBD #1989, Dave referenced an article that appeared in Brauwelt. It sounds like a very interesting source of information. What is Brauwelt (magazine, journal) and how do I get my hands on a copy? JTH Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 10:34:37 -0500 From: ByronOlive at aol.com Subject: Mini kegs Good morning Upon reading all the posts about mini kegs, I thought you ought to know that the kegs you purchase at the store with commercial beer in them are DIFFERENT than the kegs sold by the same mfg. to homebrew suppliers. The commercial kegs are intended for a one time use only and may rust at the opening. The "overpriced" ones sold at the homebrew shops have an additional and thicker vinyl lining that won't react with beer and keeps the rust away so it may be re-used. I believe this is why they cost more. BTW a "carbonator", made for filling 2 liter PET bottles fits where your CO2 encasement screws on and you could apply CO2 pressure this way. WARNING these kegs can withstand a limited amount of pressure, 30psi I'm guessing, so don't go overboard and waste beer. Byron Schmidt Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 09:45:49 -0600 From: Bill Press <press at lip.wustl.edu> Subject: Re: Rye in my beer > Can anyone give me pointers on using rye? I would like a reddish > color contribution with only a limited flavor contribution. Also, > if I can't find malted rye can I use unmalted and boil it for say, > 30 minutes to gelatinize it? When using malted rye, be sure to do a beta-glucan rest. Beta-glucan is extremely viscous, and using a decent amount of rye (>20%, they say) will cause a stuck sparge. To avoid this (I have yet to try this... I'm brewing my first rye ale next week), hold your mash at 35-45 C for 30 minutes to an hour. I'm going to do 45-60-70 C for 30-30-30 min. You can get malted rye from St. Patrick's of Texas (800-448-4224). If you can, ask for Lynn if you have questions. Even better, try calling Brewcrafters (800-HOT-WORT). They said they would start carrying malted rye sometime this month. They also carry whole hops (correctly packaged in O2 barrier bags), which is a plus, and Jim is a very knowledgable and friendly voice. I try to use Brewcrafters whenever I can (check out http://www.brewcrafters.com/hotwort/ for their online catalog). Bill (who has no affiliation with St Pats or Brewcrafters) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 11:54:25 AST4ADT From: "JEFFREY STRAUGHAN" <015056S at axe.acadiau.ca> Subject: signoff beer-l Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 1996 08:19:36 -0800 From: jfrane at teleport.com (Jeff Frane) Subject: Re: Wyeast sources Al Korzonas wrote: > >Remember a while back when Tom Fitzpatrick said that he spoke to Dave >Logsdon at Wyeast and got the origins for many of the yeasts? Remember >when I posted that Dave usually doesn't give out the the sources and >that I was suspicious of Tom's confidence in the yeast sources. > >I'm not saying that they are the sources of the yeasts, nor am I saying >that they are not. Furthermore, I'm not saying that Dave is not telling >the truth nor that Tom is not telling the truth. What I suspect, is that >Tom asked Dave point blank and that Dave gave a half-yes-half-maybe >answer (as he has always done with me) and Tom interpreted that as being >a yes. > >But, don't take any of the matchings of Wyeasts with sources too seriously >because there is an awful lot of speculation infused into those matchings. > I've known Dave for well over a decade and have frequently learned the specific source for Wyeast's strains. I've always respected Dave's desire to be protective of his information -- and of his sources. I was a little surprised to hear Tom's original statement that Dave had given him such definite response about several of the new strains because, as Al notes, he generally doesn't do that. On the other hand, I *know* that the answers Tom reported were accurate; maybe Dave surprised himself by being so clear to Tom, but I'm willing to take Tom's word that Dave *was* clear. Dave has never been adamant about a yeast's source unless he has no reason to doubt the authenticity -- as, for instance, when he's gotten the yeast directly from the brewery. I don't know why he was so clear with Tom in this particular instance, but given the fact that he told Tom and me exactly the same thing, without any quibbling, I suspect that in those cases the answers are unequivocal and can be relied on. - --Jeff Frane Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 1996 08:30:52 -0800 From: Darren Gaylor <dgaylor at ix.netcom.com> Subject: Grain Bed Depth I am preparing to take the all-grain plunge and am gradually amassing the necessary equipment. I have a 10 gallon pot that I want to use as my mash/lauter tun (inside diameter about 16"). Will this provide me with a deep enough grain bed when it is time to sparge, or do I need something with a smaller diameter? As I plan on sticking to 5 gallon batches for the time being. I would like to know the volume of a "normal" mash per pound of grain as well as the recommended grain bed depth for sparging. TIA, Darren Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 11:25:35 -0500 From: RUSt1d? <rust1d at swamp.li.com> Subject: HBRCP - Fonts To those who have download my homebrew recipe calculator, I forgot to include a couple of fonts. They are now included in the .zip file so you may want to get the new one. Also, I am really interested in feedback on how well it preforms and what needs improvement. John Varady Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 1996 11:43:03 -0500 From: David Raitt <draitt at scri.fsu.edu> Subject: LN2 results and a question First the cooling: I posted a little while ago asking if anyone had experience cooling wort using liquid nitrogen (LN2). Since no one had any strong reasons why it might not be a good idea, I went ahead and tried it. The beer is a fairly standard pale ale extract batch, so I had about 3 gallons of wort to cool, using about 5 litres of nitrogen. Roughly, I needed more LN2 than that. Initially, it seemed that the nitrogen was boiling so fast that there was little cooling of the wort going on. It is probably that the LN2 was boiling before reaching the surface of the liquid, so there was little cooling. As the temperature dropped, the LN2 didn't boil as fast, and was more effective at cooling. Overall, it took about 20 minutes to drop the wort from boiling to 110F, when we ran out of LN2 and used a standard ice bath instead. If I were to repeat the experiment, I would probably try and cool the wort to 160F or so by standard means and then use the LN2 in the range where it seemed to be most effective. However, it was really cool, in a vaguely mad scientist kind of way, to see the vapor coming out of my kettle like that. And it could blow vapour rings! Now the question(s): I am slowly making the shift to all-grain from extract brewing. Since the local fire regulations prohibit me from having a propane tank on my apartment balcony, I won't be able to do a full 6-7 gallon boil until I move. As a result I have started partial mashing -- generally 4-6 pounds of grain. The first question is whether this is the amount of grain that most people who partial mash use? A lot of the recipes in the Cat's Meow that claim to be partial mash actually seem to be extract with steeped specialty grains, which I would not have called a partial mash. The second question concerns the beer that I am making this weekend. I am planning on making a stout and got to thinking (dangerous!). If I mash about 6 pounds of pale malt as a base and then steep an additional three pounds of specialty grains (a combination of black patent, chocolate, roasted barley, etc. yet to be determined) it seems that I should get an OG of around 1.050 or so which is a reasonable starting point. There will be a lot of unfermentables in the wort, but that is common to many stouts. Is there any reason why this wouldn't work to create a reasonably drinkable stout? David - -- |David Raitt Postdoc RA | SCRI | Head Brewer | |draitt at scri.fsu.edu | Florida State University | Chief Taster | |http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~draitt/| Tallahassee, FL 32306 | Late Shipment | |Office: (904) 644-2434 | Fax: (904) 644-0098 | Picobrewery | ************************** How 'bout them Wildcats? ************************* Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 08:55:01 -0800 From: hhouck at ix.netcom.com (Harry Houck ) Subject: Oxygen Regulator for CO2? I picked up a nice, cheap ($1) oxygen regulator at the swap meet. Put a Co2 tail piece on it and plumbed it up to my 20# tank. The oxy regulator has a Liters Per Minute guage in addition to the high pressure guage. It also has an orifice fitting on the low pressure side which I had to remove before attaching a standard 0-40 lb. guage for calibration, cause it wouldn't fit otherwise. The oxy regulator measured 40lbs. when _barely_ cranked in. I'm not a physicist (although I portray one in my brewery), but O is 1/3 the density of Co2, right? Does the orifice do anything more than prevent oxygen mask blow-out? My question. Can this nice, chrome and green regulator be modified for brewery use? Do I need to find a fitting to re-install the orifice? -Harry Houck - "Beer is cheaper than dialysis" - me Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 13:00:27 -0500 (EST) From: Athol <ktp52952 at pegasus.cc.ucf.edu> Subject: H.G. Blow-off i'm sure this has been discussed before, however i missed it. consider me a newbie... i brewed 5 gals of russian imperial stout last weekend, ending up with a O.G. of about 1.078 or so, along with a healthy quart starter of london ale Wyeast. During the following days, it erupted, spilling quite a considerable (and impressive) amount of blow-off... (around half a gallon? the water level in the 5 gal glass carboy fell two/three inches from the *mid-shoulder* ) now, for my questions: 1) does the water lost need to be replaced? (this wouldn't be a problem with low OG beers, but...) 2) due to the water lost, i assume the OG will be inflated a bit (correct?). will the new inflated OG be to high for the London Wyeast? (i notice quite a difference in the bubbling rate between this RIS (slow), and others before (much faster), i wonder if the Wyeast are being put under considerable growing-pains, swimming in too much of thier own alcohol, thus should I dillute/replace lost water the beer with water. sorry, i don't know my yeasts...) thank you all for your help, if you reply, please do so via private email. any comments on bottling this HG stout (as in +/- repitching/yeast nutrients) would be appreciated as well. -ktp52952 at Pegasus.cc.ucf.edu -University of Central Florida, Orlando Fl. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 15:14:28 -0500 From: asteinm at pipeline.com (Art Steinmetz) Subject: "Scale Watcher" water treatment I got a brochure the other day for a gizmo called "Scale Watcher." You wrap some kind of induction coil around a cold water pipe and "modern integrated circuitry" sends out "modulated frequencies" to precipate dissolved calcium ions into "insoluble calcium salts which move in a suspended form in water." The idea is that the precipitated particles won't cause scale in pipes and such. It strikes me that (if it works) a little filtration down the line would provide the benefits of pre-boiling and racking off the precipitate. Anybody know about this thing? Thanks. - -- Art Steinmetz http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/asteinmetz Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 12:18:40 -0800 (PST) From: Domenick Venezia <venezia at zgi.com> Subject: Armchair analysis - ------------------------------ Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com> responds to Ian Smith in HBD #2000, 1 Apr Ian asks: >> Also a rule of thumb for end of sparging has been to stop when the sg of >> the runnings reaches 1.010 - is this measurement made at 68 F or at >> sparge temperature (140 - 160 F) ? Russell responds: >I would never waste my time with a hydrometer during a sparge. Taste the >stuff. If it tastes bad, don't use it. I always stop sparging when I have >7 gallons unless I have a lot of time to kill and a few extra containers. Ian asks: (snipped) >> I have been doing the pts/#/gall calcs based on the number of points of >> ... Russell responds: >Who cares? The only thing I'd recommend you change is to include your >adjuncts. I have a ballpark idea of my rather variable extraction rate, and >I use that to figure how much grain I'll need. Beyond that, I don't worry >much about it, and I don't really know why anyone does. (Enlighten me!) These two answers by Russell reflect a personal philosophy of home brewing. A perfectly fine philosophy, but one that I do not share. I take an SG measurement of the runnings every 2 gallons during the sparge. I also note the grain bed temp at the same times. From these measurements I can track the course of the sparge and get a better idea of when to stop. I collect between 6 and 9 gallons of wort. But, also like Russell I taste the runnings near the end. In this way I attempt to use every tool at my disposal. By monitoring the sparge so closely I can get an idea of the effects and efficiency of my process. Did the finer crush increase efficiency? When did the majority of solutes emerge? What effect did the hotter sparger water have on the process? And so on. One thing that I have learned is that as long as the pH of the sparge remains at or below 5.8 the danger of tannin extraction is minimal. This includes boiling water extractions and is of course contrary to accepted practice. If anybody has a reference for a tannin extraction vs sparge pH study I'd appreciate getting it. Ian asks: >> opinions. I have an Ale that leaves a dryish sensation on the >> roof of my mouth and it stays there a long time after swallowing >> the beer. ... through the sparge with 180F. Russell responds: >Tannins. I'll bet you 20 bucks. Your sparge water might be too hot. >Your thermometer might be slower than you think. (Like, it slows down > >Is that the mash in the lauter tun, or is that the sparge water? THat's >pretty darned hot - if that's your grain temp, that's the source of your >tannins. I'll take that bet! Note that Ian also used a fair amount of gypsum (4 tsp in 10 gallons - tbl was a typo by Ian) and had a 65 IBU hopping rate. My guess is that the dryness perceived by Ian is a sulphate dryness, the front of the mouth powdery dryness that is a distinguishing characteristic of Burton style ales. I really do believe that the danger of tannin extraction is overblown (given the pH 5.8 runnings limit). Scottish sparges (as described to me by Ron Price who toured Scottish breweries) are batch sparges with the first batch at 170F, then 180F, then the last at a simmer (>200F). Finally, Russell's comments about thermometers should be taken seriously. Often thermometers are not accurate and they are slow to respond to those last couple of degrees. Domenick Venezia Computer Resources ZymoGenetics, Inc. Seattle, WA venezia at zgi.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 14:42:32 -0600 From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com> Subject: Re: Armchair analysis > From venezia at zgi.com Tue Apr 2 14:19 CST 1996 > From: Domenick "that's not homebrew!" Venezia <venezia at zgi.com> > Russell responds: > >Tannins. I'll bet you 20 bucks. > I'll take that bet! Hey! I was betting Ian, not you! And, I was basing my bet more on his description of the flavor than on his description of his methods. > Note that Ian also used a fair amount of gypsum (4 > tsp in 10 gallons - tbl was a typo by Ian) and had a 65 IBU hopping rate. > My guess is that the dryness perceived by Ian is a sulphate dryness, the > front of the mouth powdery dryness that is a distinguishing characteristic > of Burton style ales. I don't find the sulfate dryness to last that long, though, whereas the tannin dryness seems to really stick with me. However, I experience tannin effects mostly at the back of the throat. Ian said "roof of the mouth", I assumed it was palatte. Sulfate dryness, unless I'm mistakening it for something else, I usually get all over, but more pronounced towards the front of the mouth (as you say), but it seems to pass rather quickly. It's usually very harsh, though, which matches Ian's description, whereas tannins are usually more mild to my tongue, and usually part of an aftertaste. Okay, Ian, the bet's off. > I really do believe that the danger of tannin extraction is overblown > (given the pH 5.8 runnings limit). I have definately has some hefty tannin extraction with water temps around 180. I don't always take pH readings, but I did two very similar batches within a couple weeks using very similar methods. I'd guess it would depend somewhat on your water supply. Maybe not. I, too, would like to see some hard data with both heat and pH varied. > Finally, Russell's comments about thermometers should be taken seriously. The rest of it, though, you should just laugh off. :-) -Russell Mast The "Calder Logo" is an official trademark of the City of Grand Rapids. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 16:16:42 -0500 From: RZ28 at aol.com Subject: RE: keeping my cool I am new to the brew thing, only 8 extract batches so far (and so good!). In HBD 1998 (I am a few issues behind) Clay asks: >My apartment hovers aroud 76-80 F, and I want to ferment at 65 F or so. >Besides investing in a THIRD refrigerator, does anyone have any creative, >or even obvious, solutions? Cheap is preferred, but not absolutely >necessary. * Cheap way to cool your beer and humidify your apartment. <g> You might try putting your fermenter in a plastic keg bucket full of water and slip a thick cotton t-shirt over the fermenter and into the water. I am no expert but the evaporation should help drop your fermenter temp a few degrees, maybe someone who knows about energy conversion due to evaporation can post how well (or not) this might work. I have been having the opposite problem (temps too low) in my cellar. I have been rasing the temp by placing my carboy in a keg bucket full of water and using a 100watt aquarium heater to warm it to the appropriate temp. Works great! Thanks to all for the great information, reading the HBD has helped me alot! ~RZ Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 96 14:34:54 CST From: korz at pubs.ih.att.com (Algis R Korzonas) Subject: dry taste Russell writes: >> From: "Frederick L. Pauly" <flp2m at galen.med.virginia.edu> >> Subject: Needed: Armchair analysis >> >> Well, I think I have a problem and would like your expert >> opinions. I have an Ale that leaves a dryish sensation on the >> roof of my mouth and it stays there a long time after swallowing >> the beer. > >Tannins. I'll bet you 20 bucks. Your sparge water might be too hot. >Your thermometer might be slower than you think. (Like, it slows down >and seems to stop at some temp, but if you leave it long enough, you >realize it's warmer than you thought.) Or, it might just be giving >you bad readings. Before you start counting your money, you had better consider if these brewers have high levels of sulphates in their water (or are adding a lot of gypsum). Sulphates tend to take your bitterness and make it linger in a dry sort-of way in your mouth. >> through the sparge with 180F . > >Is that the mash in the lauter tun, or is that the sparge water? THat's >pretty darned hot - if that's your grain temp, that's the source of your >tannins. It's probably their sparge water, but when will you all get it through your heads that the problem with hot sparge water is *not* that it extracts tannins (wouldn't boiling decoctions extract a lot of tannins then?) but rather too-hot sparge water can extract unconverted starch from the grain! If you keep your pH down, the temperature of the sparge is virtually immaterial when it comes to tannin extraction. Al. Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL korz at pubs.att.com Copywrong 1996 Rusel Masstt Copyright 1996 Al Korzonas Return to table of contents