HOMEBREW Digest #2000 Tue 02 April 1996
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FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Water (A. J. deLange)
Lambic Blend Attenuation (Jim Liddil)
Adjunct Question(s) (Paul Ward)
Re: additives (Tom Messenger)
My First Partial Mash - Description and Questions ("Stephen Palmer")
Advice on getting that "bitter" flavor (Frank Ferguson x3584)
Carbonates and Water Analysis & Synthesis (KennyEddy)
Force carbonating 5l mini-kegs (David C. Harsh)
Wheat/Astringency?? (Michael McGuire)
Removing hand from carboy (John Keane)
Force Priming Mini-kegs ("Houseman, David L TR")
Re: Mash Temp\ gelatin (Brady Campbell)
Ice Beer, Beer for Kids??? (Bill Rust)
Ale Yeast Temps ("Toler, Duffy L.")
Rye Yeast. (Russell Mast)
Subtractives and Behavior. (Russell Mast)
Armchair Extractions. (Russell Mast)
Re: Mini-Kegs (Mike Uchima)
Mini keg party cans (Mike Urseth)
Wyeast Strains (korz)
Hollander Extract Substitute (hollen)
Re: Hand stuck in carboy (Rolland Everitt) (Dave Broughton - PICCO)
Re: Hand stuck in carboy (Rolland Everitt) (Dave Broughton - PICCO)
Sam Smith's Oat Stout Clone recipe? (shelby & gary)
Re: Recipe Request (MR THOMAS WETHERN)
Aging (Dave Corio)
Wort Cooling (Dave Corio)
Iowa brew-pub (Dave Corio)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 09:19:36 -0500
From: ajdel at interramp.com (A. J. deLange)
Subject: Water
Raymond Louvier posted this water analysis
Silica 12 Sulfate 14 Phosphate <.1
Calcium 33 Chloride 28
Magnesium 8.3 Carbonate 0
Sodium 59 Bicarbonate 239
Potassium 2.1 Nitrate <.05
Total dissolved solids 395.2
Suspended solids 1.3
Total Alkalinity(CaCO3) 196
Hardness as CaCO3 116
pH 7.8
Chlorine Residual NR (?)
and commented that his light lagers suffer from "bite". He suspects that
this has something to do with the bicarbonates and this is probably correct
but sulfate, even at this low level, could also be a contributor at the
high hopping levels found in Pilsners. The effects of carbonate are largely
felt through the alkalinity (which is mostly caused by carbonate) which
results in higher mash pH's than might be desired. One approach is to
neutralize the alkalinity with acid (such as lactic) in the mash to the
extent that the mash pH is within the desired range (5.2 - 5.4) at
sachharification temperature. Some authors believe that high levels of
bicarbonate, even if neutralized, will have a negative effect on the beer.
The obvious approach is to try to remove the bicarbonate from the water and
the usual method is boiling. Boiling is unlikely to precipitate any
carbonate from this water. Precipitation is predicted from a couple of
"indices". Neither indicates that precipitation will occur although the
water will be supersaturated with chalk if boiling raises the pH to above
7.6 which it is, of course, likely to do. While the indices are not
infallible, my limited experience also suggests that precipitation is not
likely with this water. Remember that leaving boiled water to cool over
night will allow it to pick up CO2 from the air so that the pH goes back
down and some of the precipitated chalk, if any, redissolves.
The bicarbonate can be precipitated by adding lots of calcium (which will
benefit the beer in other ways as well) but there are catches to this
approach. Gypsum is a source of calcium but also of sulfate so that adding
gypsum will aggravate the bite problem. Calcium chloride adds the calcium
without sulfate but the chloride also goes up and this may be an approach
that could be explored for ales but you already have more chloride than is
desireable for some lagers. Calcium chloride is a little difficult to find
but someone mentioned that there is a homebrew mailorder house that sells
the dihidrate in food grade. Unfortunately, I can't remember who that is.
Another source of calcium is lime either as quick lime (calcium oxide) or
slaked lime (calcium hydroxide). The problem with them is that a source of
food grade lime is difficult to find and that detailed, accurate
calculations are required for the addition and even then the results are
not fully predictable. DeClerk recommends working with test batches of
water followed by analysis before making the adjustments to the production
water. All this is too elaborate for the homebrewer.
What seems to make most sense in this case is dilution of the municipal
water with distilled water. 50:50 dilution will get the alkalinity down to
around 100 ppm and this is adequate for most brews. Bohemian Pilsners are
always the exception. They must be brewed with very soft water and few
brewers are fortunate enough to have water that soft (but I have seen a
couple of analyses posted here that fit the bill). For these beers brewers
must use distilled or deionized or reverse osmosis water in order to
eliminate the bite. You may wish to try a brew with 100% distilled or RO
water. Be careful not to sparge past the point where runoff pH excedes 6
(or maybe a bit less, say 5.8) and don't expect great conversion efficiency
but the difference between the distilles water beer and what you usually
brew will tell you what the effects of your water are.
A.J. deLange Numquam in dubio, saepe in errore!
ajdel at interramp.com
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 7:52:45 -0700 (MST)
From: Jim Liddil <JLIDDIL at AZCC.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Lambic Blend Attenuation
> From: korz at pubs.ih.att.com (Algis R Korzonas)
> Subject: Wyeast attenuation
>
> In a recent post, I said that Wyeast "European Ale" (#1338) is their
> least attenuative yeast. Well, yes and no. In a brochure I got
> just yesterday, Wyeast #1968 "London ESB" is listed with the same
> apparent attenuation: 67-71%. Furthermore, "Belgian Lambic blend"
> is listed with an apparent attenuation of 65-75%.
Given enough time Brettanomyces will attenuate to 90% or greater. So the 65-75%
is not accurate or complete.
> Just wanted to be accurate and compleat...
>
> Al.
Jim
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 10:27:58 -0500 (EST)
From: Paul Ward <paulw at doc.state.vt.us>
Subject: Adjunct Question(s)
Well, I', finally moving up one carefull notch at a time in this
brewing hobby. After several all extract batches, I brewed
'Elbro Nerkte' this past weekend, which was my first experience
using adjunct grains (crystal and black patent).
Following the guidance of St. Charles the Papazian (and this
collective), I placed my grains in one of those heavy plastic
bags with a "zipper" closure, set it on my marble pastry board
abd beset it with my marble rolling pin. My wife wandered out to
see what I was doing in her kitchen. "Crushing my grains," I
replied. She asked why I didn't use our electric coffee grinder
(one of those new fangled devices with blades in it that can
pulverize coffee beans in 12 seconds). I explained that the
grains needed to be 'cracked' into 3 to 5 pieces, leaving the
hulls intact. "Why," she asked? "So I don't get a stuck sparge
or undesirable tannins from the husks in my wort," I answered.
"What's a sparge," she innocently inquired? Only then did it
dawn on me, I DON'T HAVE A SPARGE TO GET STUCK! "How do the
grain husks cause tannins," she next asked? I explained how the
husks would release tannic acid if boiled, and it dawned on me
that the grains (and husks) are removed from the water BEFORE the
boil. My wife smirked and told me to make sure I cleaned her
stove when I was done 'playing.'
So anyway, my questions are:
If I use the rolling pin method, how do I know when I've
sufficientlly crushed the grains? That 3 to 5 piece rule
leaves a little something to be desired if you don't know
what you're looking for.
Since I'm not sparging (other than straining througha seive
with cheesecloth in it), what difference does it make how
small the grain pieces are? Wouldn't finely pulverized
particles dissolve more readily (not the particles, the
sugars in them)?
I heated a gallon and a half of cold water to ~150 F and
held the grains at that temperature for about 15 minutes,
then raised the temp to the start of boiling when I
strained out the grains. Can I cause HSA by aerating this
hot 'adjunct tea' by straning before adding the malt
extract?
Well, that's enough for one morning. I appreciate this forum and
the help I have received in the past.
Thanks all.
Paul
- --
If vegetarians eat vegetables, what of humanitarians?
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 08:05:51 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom Messenger <kmesseng at slonet.org>
Subject: Re: additives
Tom Fitzpatrick wrote:
<snip>
Subject: Additives and Behaviour
I'm sure most of you out there have stories you could tell
about the effects of drinking cheap beer on one's behaviour.
My wife gets particularly squirrely when she drinks beer with
lots of adjuncts/additives/preservatives. Can anyone point me
to any studies or reference material on how and/or why
adjuncts/additives in beer affect us physically or mentally.
My wife is taking a graduate course relating to alcohol use
and thought it might be an interesting topic. Thanks for any
help.
- --
Tom Fitzpatrick
<snip>
Tom, I'm willing to help you out here. Give your wife lots of whatever it is
that makes her "squirrely" and send her to me. I'll test and report back.
- --------------------------------
Tom Messenger,
Los Osos, California, USA
kmesseng at slonet.org
- --------------------------------
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 1996 11:52:27 EST
From: "Stephen Palmer" <uscgsynd at ibmmail.com>
Subject: My First Partial Mash - Description and Questions
Well, I did my first partial-mash Saturday night,
and I must say that all-in-all it was a good experience.
I'm glad I did a partial rather than a full mash, as I did
make some mistakes, and the 50% extract may help save the
batch.
I wanted to do the partial mash with -no- purchase of
extra equipment, so my sparge vessel consisted of a 2
gallon bucket with lots-o-holes drilled in the bottom
suspended over the top of my 6 gallon bottling bucket. As
you might guess, this resulted in the sparge water dripping
about 1 ? feet from the sparge vessel to the bottom of the
bucket.
After collecting my wort, and adding my extract, I had
about 2 7/8 gallons to boil (in a 3 gallon boiler) so I
had to be very careful of boil over. I successfully
avoided boil over, and within 30 minutes had a good
rolling boil going.
Throughout the process, I was chanting the mantra...
Relax... Don't Worry... Have a Homebrew... (And I did)
On to my questions.
1: Is hot side aeration going to seriously affect my brew.
2a: The recipe called for 1 lb. brown sugar. I
mistakenly added this to the mash, and I'm afraid
it all got filtered out during sparge. Will I lose
the flavor the Brown Sugar was supposed to add?
2b: My Starting Gravity was Way low. 1.034 instead of
1.047 predicted. I believe this may be due to 2a,
or poor extraction during sparge. Will this seriously
affect the flavor, or simply lower the Alcohol
content?
The batch is now in the primary fermenter, and
appears to be progessingnicely despite all my
attempts to kill it... :-)
PS: the recipe was the Partial Mash version of the
(Southern) Brown Ale as listed in the back of Dave
Millers CHOHB. Basically as follows..
(working from memory)
3.5 lbs British Pale Malt Extract Syrup
1.5 lbs British Pale Ale Malt
4 oz Med British Crystal
4 oz Black Patent
1 oz Norther Brewer Hops (bittering)
1 oz Fuggles (Aroma)
Start 8:30 PM
Mash in 132F 5 min
Starch Conversion 155F 1 hour
Mash out 168F 5 min
Sparge with 2 gals 168F 1 hour
Boil 1 hour NB hops at begin, Fug Hops at end...
Cooled in Ice Bath to 75F (30 min)
pitched yeast at 75F
End 1:20 AM
Stephen L. Palmer
uscgsynd at ibmmail.com - Columbia Gulf, Houston TX
elrond at helix.xiii.com - Home
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 96 09:25 PST
From: fpf at gasco.com (Frank Ferguson x3584)
Subject: Advice on getting that "bitter" flavor
My brewing partner and I have been fairly
successful so far in the brews we're putting together.
We've not tried grain brewing yet, but will get there
eventually. One problem we've had is getting a truely
sharp, bitter taste in our bitters. By and large, we've
wound up with a tendency for a somewhat sweet and
gentle bitter. What's the secret? We've certainly
let things ferment to the end, and have applied what
seems to have been the right variety and amount of
hops. It there something we're missing here?
Any help appreciated.
francis ferguson
fpf at gasco.com
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 12:26:43 -0500
From: KennyEddy at aol.com
Subject: Carbonates and Water Analysis & Synthesis
I've been in some discussions about water analysis/synthesis with regards to
"carbonate" and "alkalinity" and am presenting the following for review and
comment.
In developing BreWater as a tool for massaging water makeup for brewing
purposes, I've discovered that there are certain aspects of the problem which
are simple and straightforward and certain others which are aggravatingly
flaky. Adding one gram of table salt to a gallon of ion-free water DOES
result in 104 ppm sodium ion and 160 ppm chloride ion. Adding one gram of
chalk DOES result in 106 ppm calcium ion and 158 ppm carbonate. The
difference is that in the case of table salt, what you see is what you get.
It's it and that's that. In the case of chalk (and baking soda), the
"carbonate" has its own plan...
"Carbonates" exist in water as a mixture of carbonate (CO3--), bicarbonate
(HCO3-), and carbonic (dissolved CO2). with the relative concentrations of
these "species" depending on the pH of the water. In the case of water
synthesized with only chalk and/or baking soda, the concentration ratios and
the resulting pH is actually predictible from the amount of chalk and baking
soda added. On the other hand, the pH of a "natural" water may be further
influenced by any number of other water components.
The problem is compounded by the fact that published water profiles may give
the carbonates under either "CO3" or "HCO3" labels. This may be based on an
assumption that at the pH of the "natural" water, there is a predominance of
one or the other. It may also be a default, blind "lumping" of all three
carbon species into one figure for "simplicity". In any case, it's only part
of the story.
The "buffering" capacity ("alkalinity") of a given concentration of
*carbonate* (say from chalk) versus *bicarbonate* (say from baking soda) is
different, and it's the *buffering capacity* that we are really interested
in, since this is what counteracts the mash's ability to acidify to "optimum"
pH levels. If one profile gives "carbonate" and the next "bicarbonate", is
the author blindly "lumping" all the species under one label or is s/he
assuming a predominance of one over the other based on other water
characteristics? Or perhaps s/he is giving the equivalent (bi)carbonate
concentration which gives rise to the water's alkalinity? How should we deal
with the "carbonate", "bicarbonate", and "alkalinity" figures in working with
BreWater (or any other water adjustment plan)?
For additions of chalk and baking soda, BreWater adjusts the alkalinity
contributed by them based on the fact that bicarbonate (from baking soda) is
half as "alkaline" (half the buffering capacity) of the carbonate contributed
by chalk. 100 ppm "CO3" from chalk is twice as alkaline (166 ppm) as the
alkalinity from 100 ppm of what's labelled "CO3" (actually HCO3) from baking
soda (alk = 83 ppm). Whether the alkalinity exists as carbonate or
bicarbonate doesn't matter as much as the solution's alkalinity or buffering
capacity. The label "CO3" in BreWater could perhaps be more accurately
labelled "HCO3" since water synthesized only from BreWater's salts will have
a pH in a range where bicarbonates dominate, but in "natural" water further
treated with salts, it's not an easy task to determine the mix without lots
of additional information. In either case it's not going to be totally right
since it will always be a mix anyway. The use of the "CO3" label arises from
the desire to express "as CaCO3", which is typical of a municipal analysis.
Bottom line is that if the alkalinity is kept under control, the number under
the "CO3" label is not that important. In a few rare cases the target
profile's alkalinity is given, but in most it is not. Fortunately, the
*total alkalinity* of "your" starting water (tap water or whatever) is
usually given in the municipal supplier's analysis. The additional
alkalinity supplied by additions of chalk and/or baking soda will yield a
final alkalinity figure that should accurately represent the resulting
*alkalinity* of the brewing water.
But how does that relate to a target profile giving only "carbonate" or
"bicarbonate", but not "alkalinity"? If a target calls for "75 ppm CO3"
without stating "alkalinity", what's the synthesis plan?
This is where I get dizzy and begin wheezing, so if I'm off-base here, I'd
appreciate some help. The following will result in rough estimates rather
than exact figures, but should at least put you on the right planet.
One very rough approach might be to assume that the resulting water will be
in the range of pH where bicarbonate predominates, and to go with the
equivalent 1 ppm bicarbonate = 0.83 ppm alkalinity. So "75 ppm CO3" means
"75 ppm bicarbonate" which equates to 62 ppm alkalinity. This will most
likely be "wrong" but in the absence of other information it should give you
an order-of-magnitude figure to use. Once you have the alkalinity figure,
use it as a target rather than "CO3" when adding chalk and/or baking soda.
What about dealing with a municipal analysis in terms of deriving "CO3" and
"alkalinity" figures for starting water makeup? In situations where neither
is given outright, you'll have to play some games too. Using the "total
alkalinity" figure for "alkalinity" should be accurate. In the range of pH <
8.4, the "bicarbonate" and the analysis' "total alkalinity" figure would be
roughly the same. Above this pH the picture changes. But realizing that
municipal analyses are averages and often vary greatly over time, this is
probably as good a "guess" as any, and again will give you a starting figure
which will give you an idea of where your water is on the brewability scale.
So using "total alkalinity" for both "alkalinity" and "CO3" would be
reasonable.
Now you have both beginning and target estimates for alkalinity, so add your
chalk and baking soda using target alkalinity rather than target "CO3" as a
guide. In any event, it's a good general "rule" to minimize alkalinity, so
view this estimate as a maximum in any event.
For straight synthesis from ion-free water, BreWater equates the bicarbonate
from baking soda to the equivalent amount of CO3 by accounting for the extra
hydrogen atom in bicarb (it multiplies HCO3 by 60/61). The 2:1 ratio of
alkalinity between CO3 (chalk) and HCO3 (baking soda) as described above is
also accounted for. So the resulting calculation yields an "as CaCO3" figure
for CO3, and an adjusted "alkalinity" figure.
Ken Schwartz
KennyEddy at aol.com
"We've been working on the basics, because, basically, we've been having
trouble with the basics." -- Bob Ojeda, LA Dodgers pitcher
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 13:22:08 -0500
From: dharsh at alpha.che.uc.edu (David C. Harsh)
Subject: Force carbonating 5l mini-kegs
In HBD 1999, Bob Bloodworth asked:
>Question for the HBD: Has anyone out there tried to build an adapter to force
>carbonate beer in one of these 5 ltr cans?
Force carbonation in these cans is simple. All you need is a tap that
accepts CO2 cartridges and a Liquid Bread carbonator cap. The carbonator
cap screws onto the threads that hold in the CO2 cartridge and you can
connect your ball lock fitting from for CO2 cylinder. Fill the keg, chill,
carbonate as usual.
One word of warning - the newer version of the carbonator cap has a ridge
around the inside that helps the seal against the PET bottle. You will
either have to cut/chip the ridge out or use an old version for force
carbonating.
This works great - its an easy way to take some of your beer to a party
with minimal brain damage and bottle transport. And its a lot easier to
shake a 5l keg to force carbonate that it is a soda keg! I've actually
kegged a portion of a batch and dispensed it this way connected to the CO2
line instead of using the cartridges.
Thanks to Ed Westemeier for originally describing this technique in an
article for the Bloatarian Bulletin.
As always, void where prohibited, your results may vary, observe safety
precautions when handling compressed and/or liquified gases, don't blame me
if you hurt yourself trying this.
Dave
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
&&& Dave Harsh &&&
&&& Newsletter Editor for the Bloatarian Brewing League &&&
&&& (For those of you that are easily impressed) &&&
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 12:14:43 -0600
From: mcguire at hvsun40.mdc.com (Michael McGuire)
Subject: Wheat/Astringency??
- ----- Begin Included Message -----
Hi all,
Content-Length: 968
I just made my first all grain wheat bier. I looked in the AHA wheat beer
book, Lager Beers, and Miller's Brewing the World great beers for infomation
on wheat. Is astringency a problem from over sparging/ph like with barley
based beers. I have yet to find any discussion.
I used first wort hopping as suggested recently on HBD for pilsners.
Anyone out there have experience with this?? in wheat beers
I had no problems with runnoff.
For Ten gallons
14# German Wheat
6# Briess 2-row
2# light german crystal
Whenstaphen(sp) yeast
Mash in at 104 hit 122 rest. Pull first decoction (40%) heat to 160 hold
15 minutes bring to boil hold for 15 minutes add to mash. mash hit 149 hold
15minutes. Pull second decoction repeat cycle add back temp stablized at 157.
Let set for 2 Hrs, pulled 3rd decoction(thinest) mash out 165.
Sparge 10 gallons of water. 10.5 gallons at end of boil.
OG 1.065 Is this sound low?? for the amount of ingredents used??
Michael
- ----- End Included Message -----
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 13:59:30 -0500
From: John Keane <keane at cs.rutgers.edu>
Subject: Removing hand from carboy
In HBD# Rolland Everitt asks about a potentially serious condition:
> Date: Sun, 31 Mar 1996 07:41:55 -0500
> From: af509 at osfn.rhilinet.gov (Rolland Everitt)
> Subject: Hand stuck in carboy
> [snip]
> ... When I shook the carboy (with my hand sealing the opening),
> the vacuum suddenly created was strong enough to suck my hand
> into the neck up to my wrist, where it remains firmly (and
> uncomfortably) lodged.
> [snip]
>
> Is my hand ruined?
There's a solution to your problem that involves a bit more time and
expense than you would normally want to expend to recover a stopper
from your carboy. The trick is to find a mathematician who is a
glass-blowing hobbiest. Have him (CAREFULLY!) re-configure the carboy
as a Klein bottle (more-or-less the 3-D equivalent of a Moebius
strip). Once that is done, the carboy will no longer have an "inside"
or an "outside", and you should have no difficulty removing your hand.
Of course, a "Klein carboy" may pose some unique problems for filling
and sanitizing, but I leave the solution to those as an exercise for
the student.
:) _John_
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 96 14:14:00 EST
From: "Houseman, David L TR" <DLH1 at trpo3.tr.unisys.com>
Subject: Force Priming Mini-kegs
Robert asks about force carbonating in mini-kegs. The answer is a very
simple yes. At the auto supply shops, one can buy rubber tire air valve
that will just fit into the press out bung hole in the mini-keg stopper from
the inside. By fitting your CO2 tank with and tire air filler assembly
(again from the auto supply store) you can then force carbonate the
mini-kegs. When you get ready to tap the keg simply push in the air valve
into the keg as you would the normally push in the bung. Works like a
champ. My original concern with this was that the rubber in the air valve
would add an unwanted flavor to the beer, but having tried beer dispensed in
this manner, I can report that it worked and didn't taste any different.
The cost to try this is only a few dollars.
Dave Houseman
Groundhog Brewery
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 14:31:01 -0800
From: Brady Campbell <bcampbel at ed.cecil.cc.md.us>
Subject: Re: Mash Temp\ gelatin
Goodday All,
Our mothers all taught us "A watched pot never boils."
Our mothers were probobly not brewers (unfortunatly).
I am a partial mash brewer and over the weekend I forgot
to keep a close eye on the mash pot while boosting the
temp. from 145 F to 155 F. When I realized my mistake
the temp had risen to 180 F. It took a while to cool down.
I usually "mash out" for 5 minutes at the end of the mash
by raising the temp to 167 F. Mashing out slows down
enzyme activity.
My questions are: Does the enzyme activity resume once the
mash is cooled to its proper range of 148 F to 156 F?
What will the high temp do to my beer?
(TIA)
Laissez-faire,
Brady Campbell
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 14:53:56 -0500
From: Bill Rust <wrust at csc.com>
Subject: Ice Beer, Beer for Kids???
Greetings Brewers,
Just passing along a newsworthy item...
>The colorful can of Anheuser-Busch's beer Bud Ice is deceiving parents
>into thinking it is a soft drink. Several parents mistakenly put Bud Ice
>in the lunch boxes of their kids and the kids took them to school.
>
>Personally, I always thought elementary school would become less boring
>with a cold one at lunch.
>
>However, I believe in a classical education as the Great Books series of
>Adler and Hutchison and all that stuff, and if I had a kid I would want
>him to drink canonical Western European beers made with the best hops,
>malt, barley, and water according to established recipes by the heroic
>brewmasters.
>
>I would want him to taste beer with deep flavors and aesthetics not the
>Spuds MacKenzie dogwater Budweiser makes. I would pack in his lunch box
>with beers like Guinness, Bass Ale, Newcastle Brown Ale, and German beers
>made according to the Rheinheitsgebot.
Now back to your normal broadcast...
Prosit!
------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Rust, Master Brewer |
Jack Pine Savage Brewery | The Brew Cru
Shiloh, IL (NACE) | 'Get Off Your Dead Ass and Brew!'
------------------------------------------------------------
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 96 14:41:00 PST
From: "Toler, Duffy L." <TOLERD at cdnet.cod.edu>
Subject: Ale Yeast Temps
I know what happens to lager yeasts when they are fermented too warm, but
what ill effects would fermenting an ale on the cool side have? I have a
closet that has stayed in the 64-66 F range this winter that I would like to
ferment in.
Thanks All!
Duffy Toler
tolerd at cdnet.cod.edu
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 14:58:27 -0600
From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com>
Subject: Rye Yeast.
> From: Michael K. Cinibulk <cinibumk at ml.wpafb.af.mil>
> Also, I never saw the answer, how _do_ you pronouce Wyeast?
I pronounce it like Elmer Fudd trying to say "Rye Yeast".
> From: "Taber, Bruce" <BRUCE.TABER at NRC.CA>
> Can anyone give me pointers on using rye? I would like a reddish color
> contribution with only a limited flavor contribution. Also, if I can't find
> malted rye can I use unmalted and boil it for say, 30 minutes to gelatinize
> it?
Unmalted Rye will give you -no- color and a -lot- of flavor. I have no
experience, firsthand or otherwise, with malted rye. If you want to use
unmalted rye (which can be great in some recipes), try to find "flaked rye"
from a healthfood store - already gelatinized and much easier than boiling
rye berries or something like that.
-R
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 15:09:33 -0600
From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com>
Subject: Subtractives and Behavior.
> From: fitz at fasicsv.fnal.gov (Tom Fitzpatrick)
> Subject: Additives and Behaviour
>
> I'm sure most of you out there have stories you could tell
> about the effects of drinking cheap beer on one's behaviour.
> My wife gets particularly squirrely when she drinks beer with
> lots of adjuncts/additives/preservatives. Can anyone point me
> to any studies or reference material on how and/or why
> adjuncts/additives in beer affect us physically or mentally.
If I had to take a guess, I'd say it's not what -is- in those beers,
but rather what is -not- in them. First, most of "cheap beer" you
buy is going to be heavily filtered, which will take out the zinc and
B vitamins and other nutrients you might get from yeast in -some-
good beers. Second, most cheap beers have very little in the way of
protein and residual sugars, compared to Guiness or a good bock or a
homebrew. A serious deficit in any of these things can influence
behavior, and people vary in their sensitivity to them. However, all
of them can also be found in a good meal. So, have your wife eat while
drinking. Do some experiments. :-)
The one thing that some really cheap beers will have more than "regular"
beers, but less than many homebrews and exotic beers, are fusel alcohols.
I mostly associate those with a "harsh" taste, a headache (both before
and during a regular hangover), and a 'confused' feeling. I don't know
if they'll make someone resemble a squirrel or other small mammals,
but it's feasible.
-Russell Mast
copyright 1996 Bat Pabcock
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 15:19:18 -0600
From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com>
Subject: Armchair Extractions.
> From: Ian Smith <rela!isrs at netcom.com>
> Subject: Extraction efficiency pts/#/gall etc.
> When calculating the number of pounds used do you include the adjuncts
> such as crystal malt etc. ? (I mash the adjuncts with the base malt)
Definately. Adjust your expectations of extraction based on the different
content of your mash.
btw, crystal malt is a 'specialty grain' which is very different from an
adjunct. If you're going to be picky enough to worry about extraction
rates, you should learn the lingo.
> When calculating the number of points do you use the gravity of the hot
> sweet liquor that was collected after sparging and if so do you have to
> cool it to 68 F to take a reading ?
Technically, yeah. You can back-estimate given a guess of how much you've
boiled off.
> Also a rule of thumb for end of sparging has been to stop when the sg of
> the runnings reaches 1.010 - is this measurement made at 68 F or at
> sparge temperature (140 - 160 F) ?
I would never waste my time with a hydrometer during a sparge. Taste the
stuff. If it tastes bad, don't use it. I always stop sparging when I have
7 gallons unless I have a lot of time to kill and a few extra containers.
> I have been doing the pts/#/gall calcs based on the number of points of
> the wort after immersion cooling and dumping into the carboy. I have
> been using the number of gallons collected in the carboy and the
> number of pounds of base malt (ignoring adjuncts). Is this correct ? When is
> the appropriate time for doing the efficiency calculation and what is
> the 100% efficiency number ?
Who cares? The only thing I'd recommend you change is to include your
adjuncts. I have a ballpark idea of my rather variable extraction rate, and
I use that to figure how much grain I'll need. Beyond that, I don't worry
much about it, and I don't really know why anyone does. (Enlighten me!)
> From: "Frederick L. Pauly" <flp2m at galen.med.virginia.edu>
> Subject: Needed: Armchair analysis
>
> Well, I think I have a problem and would like your expert
> opinions. I have an Ale that leaves a dryish sensation on the
> roof of my mouth and it stays there a long time after swallowing
> the beer.
Tannins. I'll bet you 20 bucks. Your sparge water might be too hot.
Your thermometer might be slower than you think. (Like, it slows down
and seems to stop at some temp, but if you leave it long enough, you
realize it's warmer than you thought.) Or, it might just be giving
you bad readings.
> through the sparge with 180F .
Is that the mash in the lauter tun, or is that the sparge water? THat's
pretty darned hot - if that's your grain temp, that's the source of your
tannins.
-R
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 15:26:44 -0600
From: uchima at fncrd8.fnal.gov (Mike Uchima)
Subject: Re: Mini-Kegs
Robert Bloodworth <100334.664 at compuserve.com> asks:
> Question for the HBD: Has anyone out there tried to build an adapter to force
> carbonate beer in one of these 5 ltr cans?
One of the other members of the brewing club I belong to has indicated that
the "carbonator" adapter (designed for 2L PET bottles) can also be attached to
the 5L mini-keg tap. Not sure what sort of pressure the 5L kegs can withstand,
though -- force carbonating this way might result in some bulging cans.
- -- Mike Uchima
- -- uchima at fncrd8.fnal.gov
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 18:25:05 -0600
From: beernote at realbeer.com (Mike Urseth)
Subject: Mini keg party cans
Date: 30 Mar 96 06:59:54 EST
From: Robert Bloodworth <100334.664 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Mini-Kegs
Question for the HBD: Has anyone out there tried to build an adapter to force
carbonate beer in one of these 5 ltr cans?
I saw a nice idea. Mike O'Brien of Pico Brew showed me that the
"Carbonator" (a little device that uses the snap on connector that goes on
a corney keg to carbonate PET bottles) screws right onto the mini keg
tapper where the CO2 cartridges go. The tapper he showed me was one of the
metal (i.e. higher priced) models. Make sure that they are compatible
before buying.
No interest in either company blah blah.
Mike Urseth
Editor & Publisher
Midwest Beer Notes
339 Sixth Avenue
Clayton, WI 54004
715-948-2990 ph.
715-948-2981 fax
e-mail: beernote at realbeer.com
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 96 13:04:32 CST
From: korz at pubs.ih.att.com
Subject: Wyeast Strains
Remember a while back when Tom Fitzpatrick said that he spoke to Dave
Logsdon at Wyeast and got the origins for many of the yeasts? Remember
when I posted that Dave usually doesn't give out the the sources and
that I was suspicious of Tom's confidence in the yeast sources.
Well, I just got off the phone with Dave and asked him straight up if he
told Tom that Thames Valley Ale (#1275) is from Henley and that Belgian
Strong (#1388) was from Duvel. Dave responded just as I remember him
responding when I asked him about sources three years ago: He said
"...well, Tom may have gotten the impression... we don't usually
give out the sources... these may or may not be the sources..."
I'm not saying that they are the sources of the yeasts, nor am I saying
that they are not. Furthermore, I'm not saying that Dave is not telling
the truth nor that Tom is not telling the truth. What I suspect, is that
Tom asked Dave point blank and that Dave gave a half-yes-half-maybe
answer (as he has always done with me) and Tom interpreted that as being
a yes.
I have talked to Dave about sources many times over the last six years or
so and he has always been rather protective and non-committal. I don't
blame him. I don't blame Tom for thinking he got a definate yes from
Dave. I thought the same thing when I first talked to Dave about sources.
So, if you think that you know where a particular yeast is from and it
makes you happy and you can brew a killer Duvel clone from #1388, great!
But, don't take any of the matchings of Wyeasts with sources too seriously
because there is an awful lot of speculation infused into those matchings.
Al.
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz at pubs.att.com
Copyright 1996 Al Korzonas
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 96 16:56:39 PST
From: hollen at vigra.com
Subject: Hollander Extract Substitute
I have obtained a recipe calling for Hollander light malt syrup and
wonder if anyone is familiar enough with it to recommend a substitute
of a grain. Just pale malt? I have no trouble with hitting OG, I
just don't know how fermentable/unfermentable or how malty this
extract is.
thanks,
dion
- --
Dion Hollenbeck (619)597-7080x119 Email: hollen at vigra.com
Senior Software Engineer Vigra, Inc. San Diego, California
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 96 17:12:40 PST
From: Dave Broughton - PICCO <dave at picco.com>
Subject: Re: Hand stuck in carboy (Rolland Everitt)
A similar thing happened to me just a year ago. Only I put my lips on the
carbouy before I shook it and it sucked my brains into it.
dlb
+--------------------------------------------------------------+
| David Broughton (206)927-6910 x30 |
| Puyallup Integrated Circuit Company (206)927-6673 Fax |
| 33838 Pacific Hwy S., Suite 211 dave at picco.com |
| Federal Way, WA 98003 |
+--------------------------------------------------------------+
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 96 17:21:10 PST
From: Dave Broughton - PICCO <dave at picco.com>
Subject: Re: Hand stuck in carboy (Rolland Everitt)
Oh, by the way to get my brains back out I just put some boiling water in
the carbouy and gave it a good shake and the resulting pressure blew them
back out. Maybe you can do something similar with your hand.
dlb
+--------------------------------------------------------------+
| David Broughton (206)927-6910 x30 |
| Puyallup Integrated Circuit Company (206)927-6673 Fax |
| 33838 Pacific Hwy S., Suite 211 dave at picco.com |
| Federal Way, WA 98003 |
+--------------------------------------------------------------+
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 20:34:42 -0500
From: shelby & gary <gjgibson at ioa.com>
Subject: Sam Smith's Oat Stout Clone recipe?
I was looking through the March issue of All Aboout Beer magazine and =
noticed that one of my favorite beers, Samuel Smith's Oatmeal Stout, =
scored a whopping 99 out of 100 at the 96 world beer championships. I =
have tried many oatmeal stout recipes but have never come close to this =
one. Does anyone have a clone recipe for this beer?
TIA
Shelby
Asheville, NC
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 1996 21:56:04 EST
From: PMMH86A at prodigy.com (MR THOMAS WETHERN)
Subject: Re: Recipe Request
Barry Finley asks in HBD 1999,
>I want to brew my next batch by getting away from the kit and
>adding my own hops, etc.
I suggest that you ask your shop to suggest some unhopped malt
extracts from which to choose. I have had great success with the
Alexanders Sun Country Pale Malt Extract. I have decided to use
this in a base for most of my future brews because I understand
that most brews begin as pale. The eventual color, taste...of
the finished product depends on where you go from there(hops,
grains...). Anyways, I can elaborate on a real easy recipe for
using an unhopped malt extract (Alexanders or otherwise) if you
want to e-mail me. We don't want to plug up the bands with
Extract gibberish now do we??? The finished product comes
"close"(I use quotes because I don't want to degrade my brew
anymore than needed) to the taste of a comercial brew you want to
serve your non adventerous/handcrafting appreciative friends.
My first comminique with the HBD, I might as well respond to a
fellow Bulldog! Sick em! Whole hearted thanks to all for the
input here.
Tom W. <UGA 1986, Atlanta--->110 days and counting,
Welcoming the World. Come and see us, but bring
you homebrew.>
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 1996 20:34:24 -0600
From: Dave Corio <dcorio at inav.net>
Subject: Aging
I'm now a believer! Had samples of my very first homebrew batches set
aside for aging for quite a few months, and I'm really impressed. Even
my very first batch, which I forgot to strain the hops from, had a much
smoother and mellower taste than it did at first. Now all I have to do
is get another 20 cases of empties so I can be patient enough to wait
the proper time, and still have some "good" beer to drink!
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 1996 20:29:41 -0600
From: Dave Corio <dcorio at inav.net>
Subject: Wort Cooling
Hi, Clay. Had the same problem here, as house is kept fairly warm for
tropical birds. This tip from the local Brewmeister did the trick for
me. I keep my 6 gallon carboy in a plastic (metal would work) tub, with
about 3 to 6 inches of water in the bottom. A good sized towel wrapped
around the carboy and touching the water will act like a wick, sucking
up the water, and cooling the wort by evaporation. That kept the wort
temp down to about 68. I picked up a cheap ($7) clip-on fan at Target,
and on low setting aimed at the towel, the wort stays a nice chilly 60
degrees! Just a couple of warnings! I go through about a gallon of water
a day, and that's here in Iowa. You'll probably go through more if your
part of Texas is arid. Also, if you use a water-filled airlock on top of
your fermentor, set this up prior to adding the yeast. If you drop the
wort temp with the yeast added, it can (and has) sucked the water right
out of the airlock into the wort. This cooling will also extend the
fermentation time, and also result in much less violent fermentation.
I've CC'd this to the collective, just in case I really have taken leave
of my (few) senses and someone wants to set me straight! On the other
hand, this may be a valuable hint! Good luck.
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 1996 20:40:53 -0600
From: Dave Corio <dcorio at inav.net>
Subject: Iowa brew-pub
Cedar Rapids has a new brew-pub named "Cedar Brewing Company" on
Blairs Ferry Road. This is not a commercial post - I have not yet even
sampled their brew!
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