---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Re: ANYONE (Schneider)
  Alkalinity/Aeration/Electrons/Water Analysis (A. J. deLange)
  Sake (Douglas Kerfoot)
  (Fwd) Re: Homebrew Digest #2004 (April 06, 1996) ("Pat Babcock")
  Thermometers (KennyEddy)
  Mucor (A. J. deLange)
  Auto Sparge (Bob Jones)
  BJCP Study Guide; Temp Control Plans (WALZENBREW)
  re: keeping my cool (C.D. Pritchard)
  Hey! How 'bout this?!? ("Pat Babcock")
  HBU-MCC is dead. Long live the net... ("Pat Babcock")
  dishwasher for sterilization (Dutch)



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Mon, 01 Apr 1996 21:35:09 -0800
From: Schneider <djs at micron.net>
Subject: Re: ANYONE

Dean wrote:
> 
> Does anyone ever read this news group.  If you do, leave a message.

Yea, when while I'm waiting for my wort to chill down.

Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 6 Apr 1996 12:35:04 -0500
From: ajdel at interramp.com (A. J. deLange)
Subject: Alkalinity/Aeration/Electrons/Water Analysis

In # 2004 Greg King gave a method for calculating alkalinity from the other
entries in a water report. There's nothing wrong with his method but the
same answer can usually be gotten much more quickly. If the pH of the water
is below 8.3, then the alkalinity, expressed in milliequivalents per litre,
(DeClerk calls them "millivals" but they are the same thing) IS the
bicarbonate concentration (to within a % or so) in the same units. To
continue with the Louvier water (which is becoming as well known as Perrier
water) as an example the alkalinity was 196 ppm as CaCO3. To convert to
mEq/L divide by 50 giving 3.92 mEq/L. This is the mEq/L for bicarbonate.
Multiply by 61, the equivalent weight of bicarbonate, to get the ppm
bicarbonate: 239 which is the number in the report.

Combining the two steps, compute alkalinity from bicarbonate by multipling
by 61/50 = 1.22. It is probable that the bicarbonate number in Ray's report
was obtained by the reverse of this procedure. It is the usual practice to
measure alkalinity (the method is in my post on Lime in #2004) in
milliequivalents per litre and then convert that number to bicarbonate by
multiplying by 61. This is fine in the case where the water pH is less than
8.3 and where other ions which can effect alkalinity, such as reactive
phosphate, are not present or present only in small quantity. Otherwise,
the procedures are a little more complicated but not terribly so. In these
cases, Greg's method might be preferrable.

Doing an electrical neutrality computation is an important quality control
step for the analyst. If the magnitude of the sum of all the anion and
cation equivalences is more than, say, a tenth of a milliequivalent per
litre (Louvier's report comes in just at this level) there is reason to
suspect either that a measurement was appreciably in error or that there is
an unaccounted for ion.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Mark Elliot asked about how long to aerate with an airstone. I have done
some experiments with a sintered stainless airstone and found that about 9
minutes of bubbling compressed air at a rate which gave reasonably sized
bubbles brought 2.5 gallons of deoxygenated water in a carboy to 99% of
saturation. By contrast, 8 minutes of vigorous shaking acheived 87% of
saturation and 1 and a half minutes with bottled oxygen produced 121%.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Dan Gerth wonders about "mollified electrons". Well, all these science
books tell you that electrons have a spin of plus or minus a half. But they
never tell you half of what! I'll bet that the people who make this scale
device have figured out how to get these electrons to spin at half of
something that is less than half of the ordinary thing and thus, they are
not in such a tizzy as ordinary electrons and are so mollified.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Pat bemoans the difficulty in getting a reasonable water analysis reporting
that his "Sanitary District" wants $10/ion for a determination. If you are
on a well, I can understand this. If the "Sanitary District" supplies you
with water then you are being given the runaround. A supplier MUST do
analyses to insure that his water meets mandated federal, state, and
possibly local, standards in other words, they have the data and should
supply it. If the supply entity is public or quasi public they are probably
required by law to furnish the data.

All that aside, after some thought I have decided that I would be willing
to do brewing-specific analyses for anyone who wants them on a trial basis
(in other words, I don't want to make a career of this). Water would have
to be shipped to me and I'd have to charge something for my time and the
reagents. I don't want to get "commercial" here so send me private e-mail
if anyone is interested and I'll see what might be worked out.

A.J. deLange   Numquam in dubio, saepe in errore!
ajdel at interramp.com



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Date: Sat, 06 Apr 1996 13:04:11 -0500
From: Douglas Kerfoot <dkerfoot at macatawa.org>
Subject: Sake

Does anyone know of any web resources for sake making?  I thought there 
was a Sake Digest, but I can't find any info on it.  I am also looking 
for sources for rice Koji (the moldy rice, not the liquid enzyme).

Private responses will be summarized.  Thanks

Doug


Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 6 Apr 1996 16:23:19 +0500
From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock at oeonline.com>
Subject: (Fwd) Re: Homebrew Digest #2004 (April 06, 1996)

In HOMEBREW Digest #2004, John 'Cisco' Francisco sez:

> I just got back from UPS shipping two entries to the AHA
> nationals and was very surprised by a new policy at UPS.
> ALL PACKAGES WILL BE OPENED AND INSPECTED.

<SNIP> 

> Everyone should call UPS and file a formal complaint about
> this 'police state' tactic. Don't bother complaining to the 
> customer service representative that answers the phone,
> ask to speak to their supervisor to file a formal compliant.

{"Captain: Short sighted scanners show a subject of a political
nature spotted off the starboard bow!"}
{"Scotty: Engage left-brain political rant engines! Rant 6! Prepare
the Blowhard torpedoes! Charge up the phrasers! Blinders up!"} 
{"Aye, Coptin!"}
{"Phrasers charged. Torpedoes ready in all forward and aft tubes.
Blinders at 100%"}
{"Fire phrasers!"}

I'm not corroborating what Cisco has said - I haven't sent a brew
package through the UPS since January - but I would like to think he
has no reason to lead us astray with a fictitious report. That said:

{"Phrasers fired. Direct hit. Damage minimal."}
{"Fire Blowhard torpedoes. All tubes."}
{"Torpedoes away."}

ANAL (Am Not A Lawyer), but this "policy" sounds like an invasion of 
privacy. You know - unconstitutional? They can't even look in your 
GARBAGE CAN without having  a warrant. What gives the UPS the right 
to search through something that you _haven't_ discarded?

{"Torpedoes hit. Enemy blinders at 60%. They are turning to engage 
us.}
{"Scotty! Rant 9!"}

I know, I know: There may be transportation/safety laws, "while in
possession" concerns,  and such that they can fall back on (like
metal detectors at the airport, customs, etc...) but doesn't the fact
that no new law has been enacted requiring this tactic coupled with
the fact that they never did the inspection gig before set any kind
of legal precedent? 

{"Enemy coherent-thought disruptors powering up. We cannot withstand
an attack from these weapons at this time, Captain."}
{"Scotty! I need MORE POWER!!!!"}
{"But, Coptin! I'm givin yer all she's got!}
{"Fire forward phrasers. Lay in a course away from the enemy and fire 
as we go."}

This sounds like something the ACLU or some other legal wolf-pack is
gonna jump on mighty hard and fast. (Probably not, though. They're
too busy with important social engineering tasks - like getting the
Christ out of Christmas and other such important things - to worry
about an action that might even be USEFUL.) 

{"Scotty! I need those rant engines NOW!"}
{"Coptin! I've redirected life support to the rant engines! Make the 
jump in logic quickly!"}

Anyway, maybe those phone calls would be better placed to your local
ACLU rather than to the UPS. After all - just by having the policy, they
have demonstrated how near and dear they hold your (our) rights. What
difference is a phone call going to make? 

Just my $0.02.  Brew on, comrades, brew on! Nostrovnia!

{"Warning! Hull breach on the command deck. Rant plasma core
detonation imminent..."}

Man, I Gotta lay off the coffee...

 - ---

 - Pat Babcock
pbabcock at oeonline.com
http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/

(C) Copyright 1996 Mussell Rats

See ya!

Pat Babcock in Canton, Michigan (Western Suburb of Detroit)
pbabcock at oeonline.com  URL: http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/
    Let a good beer be the exclamation point at the 
    end of your day as every sentence requires proper 
     punctuation.
           -- PGB


Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 6 Apr 1996 18:17:33 -0500
From: KennyEddy at aol.com
Subject: Thermometers

John Mrazek commented on my Cheap-Ass thermometer article.  His point was
basically that other devices do the same trick with less wiring.  This is
true to a point but at the risk of sounding agumentive I'd like to bring it
into perspective.  There are certainly many ways to skin the old kitty-kat,
and the "Really Cheap-Ass Digital Thermometer" wasn't necessarily intended to
be the best and final solution to the problem.  I'll address John's points
one-by-one:

> On the other hand in Brewing Techniques (March - April 1994) Mr. Robert
> McIlvaine has published a article on temperature measuring using sensors
> made for such use. They are: 
>                         1. Very inexpensive

The "D" grade LM34 can be mail-ordered for about $3 (assuming you're also
meeting the typical $25.00 minimum charge or $5.00 surcharge).  Its accuracy
according to the National data sheet is +/-4F.  The "C" and "A" grades are
available (3F and 2F accuracy respectively) at prices ranging up to $30
depending on grade and package style.  These are "guaranteed" accuracies.
 "Typical" accuracies at elevated temperatures are 0.8F for the "A" and "C"
and 1.6F for the "D" grade (but about twice as good at room temp).  Chances
are that any given sensor will be as good or better than this but these are
the published performance specs.  Improving accuracy over these specs is
possible but requires added calibration circuitry.

>                         2. Laser trimmed for accuracy

True, but see (1).

>                         3. Accuracy of .1 Degree Fahrenheit

A *controller* built using this or any other semiconductor sensor (like a
diode) properly calibrated could conceivably *hold* a temperature to this
accuracy, but right out of the box, the *sensor's* accuracy is only as good
as described in (1).  In the above-referenced article, McIlvaine writes:
"[it] indicates temperatures from 0F to 250F within 0.1 degrees of
*accuracy*"...I would venture to say he really means "resolution", which
would then make it a correct statement.

>                         4. Your choice of either Celsius or Fahrenheit
>                            sensor

Great feature.  But no particular advantage over other circuits topologies.

>                         5. It will direct read to your Voltmeter

I built a direct-reading (10 mV/deg F) enhancement of the simple thermometer
I presented, which can be built for about $10 (mo' less).

>                         6. To do that you only need a 9 Volt Battery and a
>                            2K resistor.

The resistor actually isn't necessary with the '34 or '35, and can actually
degrade accuracy if your meter's input impedence is fairly low.  Most DVMs'
input impedences are very high but an analog meter is likely to be a problem
in this respect. 
 
>In other subsequent articles he also gets to computer controlled brewing
>etc. It was the best info i got to be able to make a fully computerized
>mashing process.

I've seen these other articles and I think he's doing a great job with them.
 For those so inclined (and possessing the required programming skills to
create the necessary interfaces), it's the ultimate.  But having to dedicate
even a $200 surplus 286 and monitor to the garage brewery or (gasp) having to
haul my brand-new $2000 P166 downstairs every brewday makes a
much-less-expensive and more-compact RIMS controller box fairly attractive
for that aspect of the job.  Toss in level controls and valve operators, and
yes, a PC starts llooking mighty slick, but I suspect that's beyond most
homebrewers' needs.

> It seems like a lot of work just to have a thermometer.But having a nice
> chart so you can convert measured voltage into a temperature reading must
> be cool.

C'mon now.  I DID say this circuit was for "demonstration purposes" and that
it did not read directly.  The idea was to introduce and demonstrate the
basic idea and allow an interested reader to see for him/herself the accurate
response of a very simple circuit.

Ken Schwartz
KennyEddy at aol.com

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Date: Sun, 7 Apr 1996 09:28:17 -0500
From: ajdel at interramp.com (A. J. deLange)
Subject: Mucor

With everything else in my last post I forgor Mucor ("How could he forget
Mucor?" you are probably asking yourself.") which John Thompson asked about
in #2002. Mucor is a genus of mould in the order Mucorales of the class
Zygomycota (sometimes referred to a Phycomycetes). It reproduces sexually
by the formation of zygospores and assexually by the production of
sporangia (which are sort of like the seeded head of a daisy) which release
sproangiospores (the "seeds"). It is found in soil and water (i.e. the
members of the class typically are) and can therefore be presumed to be a
possible source of infection for beer if good sanitation procedures are not
followed. In man, Mucorales are "opportunistic systemic pathogens" which
means that they do not ordinarily bother us but may use us as lunch if our
immune systems are weakened by disease (such as diabetes) or by other
means. Apparently some current wholesale dispensation of antibiotics,
corticosteroids etc. has increased the incidence of infections by these
fungi appreciably. Mucormycosis is still, however, very rare. I would assum
that a homebrew which is not infected would be as free of Mucor as any
other wild yeast/fungus. Certainly micro-filtered or Pasteurized beer would
be.

A.J. deLange   Numquam in dubio, saepe in errore!
ajdel at interramp.com



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Date: Sun, 07 Apr 1996 08:43:29 -0800
From: Bob Jones <bjones at bdt.com>
Subject: Auto Sparge

>Does anyone have a clever way to automatically control the level of 
>sparge water above the mash/lauter tun grain bed ?

Yep been doing it for years!!! Look in the HBD archives for hits on "Uncle
Bob's auto sparge" or some such nonsense.

Bob Jones in Alamo, Calif.
bjones at bdt.com
http://www.bdt.com:80/home/bjones/


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Date: Sun, 7 Apr 1996 14:33:46 -0400
From: WALZENBREW at aol.com
Subject: BJCP Study Guide; Temp Control Plans

Just another update for those interested:  I have my 100+ page BJCP exam
study guide (with sample questions) as both a text file and a WordPerfect 5.1
document on the TRASH home page:

http://members.gnn.com/rcolaizzi/trash.htm

Additionally, the Study Guide now has its own home page at

http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/bjcp.html

where you can browse through it online.

My plans for a complete refrigerator/freezer temperature control using a
Radio Shack module, including a GIF of the schematic, parts list, and
assembly and use instructions, is also located on the TRASH home page.

Cheers,
Greg Walz
MA Rep, BJCP Board of Directors


Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 7 Apr 96 21:01 EDT
From: cdp at chattanooga.net (C.D. Pritchard)
Subject: re: keeping my cool

ccrenshaw at mail.utexas.edu (Clay Crenshaw) in #1998:
>My apartment hovers aroud 76-80 F, and I want to ferment at 65 F or so.
>Besides investing in a THIRD refrigerator, does anyone have any creative,
>or even obvious, solutions?  Cheap is preferred, but not absolutely
>necessary.

Here's what I want to try:  Use a freezer as as a heat sink:  Put the
fermenter and a cooling coil in an insulated box and another coil in a
freezer.  Put tubing and a pump between them and use an antifreeze solution
as a heat transfer fluid.  Control the pump based on temperature of the
fermenter. A fan blowing across both coils will probably be needed.  Add-on
automotive transmission coolers would make better heat exchangers than the
coils.  I plan on making the fermenting box from rigid foam insulation-
basically a bottomless box that can be slipped off the fermenter and cooling
equipment so I can watch the yeast:

   +-----------+     X : fan- maybe 2 or 3 muffin fans
   |     ||    |     # : cooling coil or heat exchanger
   |    -  -   |
   |   /    \  |<--- 2" or so thick foam box w/o attached bottom
   | X#|    |  |
   | X#|    |<-|----- Fermenter
   | X#+----+  |
   |===========<----- Bottom- foam w/ plywood top

       
I'm hoping it'll maintain lagering as well as fermenting temperatures.  Adding 
a heating element would allow boosting the temp. for dicetyl rests.  If 
anyone's been down this road before, I'd like to hear about it.

What doesn't work:  I tried something similar to the above for a lagering
chamber.  Instead of the "cold" coil, I used a bucket of glycerine/water
antifreeze in a freezer.  The "warm" coil was submerged in a water bath in
an insulated garbage can.  The non-frostfree freezer frosted up pretty badly
and the experiment was terminated.   I think not precooling the water bath
and the pumping running all the time was a major factor in the failure...

>Also, has anyone had much success with a "prechiller" (additional coil
>immersed in ice bath) in an immersion-type chiller?  

I've tried putting a in-line prechiller coil upstream of the immersion
chiller. About 15' of coiled 1/4" copper tubing and a flow rate of 2 GPM or
so didn't work too well.  Maybe a more tubing or agitating the prechiller
coil more would have helped...

In summer, I cool the wort to within 10degF or so of the tap water
temperature then pump ice water through the immersion chiller.  I make a ice
water bath in a cooler and use a bilge pump in the cooler to push it through
the chiller.  I return the water back to the cooler and add more ice if
necessary.  

>Also, when using an immersion chiller, what kind of water pressure would be
>most efficient?  Is fast-running water significantly more effective than
>slow-running water?

As long as you have turbulent flow (not much for 1/4" tubing- about 1 GPM or
less I'd guess), the flow doesn't matter much.  Assumming turbulent flow,
the limiting factor for an immersion chiller is the velocity of the wort
over the coils (e.g. from moving the coil, stirring the wort or rocking the
kettle), not the velocity of water flow through the chiller.
C.D. Pritchard    cdp at chattanooga.net


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Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 09:32:07 +0500
From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock at oeonline.com>
Subject: Hey! How 'bout this?!?

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager! Or, mebbe SEND me some 
in the mail! 

The Drinkur Purdee Department Of Thoughts That Usually Cause Me A 
Hell Of A Lot More Work Than I Thought They Would has thought of 
something to get me in a WHOLE lot more trouble! How about a Homebrew 
Digest Brew-Buddy Program?!? Kind of like an extension of the 
Homebrew Flea Market! 

Here's how I see it working: You send a note to pbabcock at oeonline.com
with "Brewbuddy Wanted" in the subject.  In the note, you include
your name, e-mail address, country of residence, styles you brew and
styles you're interested in. I post your info on a web page (also
planned to be echoed on the Drinkur Purdee Document Echo for you
Web-challenged individuals). People can browse the page, and send
e-mail to those they'd like to "Buddy Up" with. Then, y'all can mail
beer back and forth and REALLY PISS OFF THE UPS, er, um , no - I
mean experience each others brews, and, perhaps, experience styles
you'd otherwise not have dabbled in (or get some really nasty
infected swill from someone needing troubleshooting. Hey! It could
happen...).

Well? Whattaya think? Worth a shot?!? (This glass of Duvel is doing 
STRANGE things to my head, eh?!? I _LIKE_ it!)

If interested, send your "Brew Buddy Wanted" notes along, and I'll 
get on it ASAP. Otherwise, you know where to send the flames. That's 
right: to the automated operators at 1-800-swill-bud....

The Drinkur Purdee How Do I Get Myself Into THese Things Department 
is standing by....

(Now: on to my last remaining bottle of Australian Dogbolter Dark 
Lager. Dave? Wanna send me a case?!? Didn't think so...)

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 09:43:58 +0500
From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock at oeonline.com>
Subject: HBU-MCC is dead. Long live the net...

Hmm. Rejected. TWICE!!! Notes out of sequence now. References to
Duvel backwards. Must adjust time. M-u-s-t ..... A-d-j-u-s-t-..... T-i -m -e

- ----------------------------------

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

As I sit sipping my Easter glass of Duvel (Yummy! But I _still_ like
Orval better!), I must make a somewhat saddening announcement (excuse
me whilst I choke back my tears):

A year to the date of its inception, The Homebrew University - Motor
City Campus bulletin board is officially pronounced... 

                                                       ...DEAD!

Unfortunately, the concept never caught on here. The only posts in
any message bases were my own; the only file uploaded by anyone other
than myself was a virus. (Didn't REALLY think I'd allow it to infect
one of my machines, did you?) 90 member out of which maybe ten are
regulars. I like to blame the popularity and availability of the Net
in this area (See? We in Michigan _ARE_ more evolved than the rest of
you =) Besides: my dad needs a new machine...

Anyway, though it is still up at the moment, I'll be pulling the
plug sometime between now and May 1st. Just thought y'all would like
to know...

See ya!
Pat Babcock
pbabcock at oeonline.com
ex-sysop of the HBU-MCC BBS
(C) Copyright 1996 Lemuss Star

See ya!

Pat Babcock in Canton, Michigan (Western Suburb of Detroit)
pbabcock at oeonline.com  URL: http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/


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Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 00:26:30 -0400
From: leake.5 at osu.edu (Dutch)
Subject: dishwasher for sterilization

        Hi all, I read the recent posting about sterilizing bottles in a
dishwasher with bleach add to (help?) sterilize.  I use my dishwasher but
never add bleach.  I was reluctant to advise anyone to do this becaus I
didn't know what temperature the bottles reached during the heated dry
cycle. (I assume people have a heated dry cycle if they use their
dishwashers for sterilization.)  Well today I bottled two batches, an
Astrailian lager style ale (I had to make this for work to test "new" malt)
and a Kolsh ale, and took temperature readings during sterilization.  
        I took a reading with no bottles in during the middle of the dry
cycle, 200 F was the temp. When the bottles were in, the reading was 170 F
so I ran the dry dycle again and achieved a temp of 183 F.  From now on I
will run the heat dry cycle twice to make shure my bottles are sterilized.
183 F steam should sterilize my bottles well.

        Watch out those bottles will burn your hands!!!!
        Walter
        Leake.5 at osu.edu

Oh, Wyeast comes to my local homebrew store marked


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