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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

Contents:
  beer anecdote (Steve Conklin)
  Wort Chillers (Mike Fertsch)
  RE: 1. Slow yeast  2. White scum (Roger Rose)
  RE:194,198,199 (JOHN L. ISENHOUR)
  RE: Sake Recipe ("MR. DAVID HABERMAN")
  My beer tastes like wine! (Paul Close)

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Date: Wed, 12 Jul 89 9:35:16 CDT
From: Steve Conklin <hpfcla!hplabs!amdahl!uunet!tesla!steve>
Subject: beer anecdote

Here is an interesting "beer anecdote".

As part of the twentieth anniversary of man's landing on the moon, the
local TV stations in Huntsville (AL - The Rocket city) have been producing
bits about various aspects of the Apollo program, etc. A number of the
members of the "Von Braun team" still live in Huntsville, and have been
interviewed for these stories. Last night, they interviewed
George Von Tiesenhausen, introducing him as the man who developed the
hold-down/release system for the Saturn rockets. Then the interviewer
stated that Mr. VT had invented the system while drinking beer. Well,
that got my attention, as I had just poured a homebrew. Mr. VT held
up a Grolsch bottle, and popping open the swing top, said (I'm paraphraseing)
"You see how a little force from your thumbs can release the large force
holding down the cap. When you look at a beer bottle like this, you are
seeing almost exactly how the release system for the Saturn rocket worked."

		Steve Conklin		uunet!ingr!tesla!steve
		Intergraph Corp.	tesla!steve at ingr.com
		Huntsville, AL 35807	(205) 772-4013

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Date: Thu, 13 Jul 89 09:02 EDT
From: Mike Fertsch <FERTSCH at adc1.RAY.COM>
Subject: Wort Chillers

man at granjon.att.com asks:

> In reference to stainless kettles and mashing, what is the minimum size
> needed.  I would think 7 gallons is the minimum (for a 5 gallon batch). 
> What is the consensus ?  Another item I plan on buying is a wort chiller. 
> Which of the two main styles is best ?  Is the internal-coil type worth $30
> more than the immersion type ?  Thanks. 

The big problem with counter-flow chillers is that the chiller is hard to
sanitize.  Sanitizing solution must be passed through the tubing, and then
the tubing must be rinsed.  I can't think of an easy way to do this.  Another
problem is removal of hops.  The hops must be removed before running the
wort through the chiller.  After cooling the wort, it is advisable to
strain out the cold break trub.  Personally, I'd rather not strain the wort
twice.

I use an immersion-type wort chiller.  { I made mine by coiling 1/4 inch
copper tubing and added a garden hose attachment on its end. } The best
thing about an immersion coil is that is is easy to sanitize.  I just put
the coil in my boiling wort for the last 5 minutes of the boil. When the 
boil is finished, just run cold water through the tube.  Fifteen minutes is 
enough to cool five gallons of hot wort.  {Your mileage may differ ;-) }  
When the wort is cool, I filter out the hops and trub with a straining bag. 
I believe that the hops act as a mini filter bed and make the trub easier 
to remove.

Immersion-type chillers require larger kettles because they displace wort 
when then are immersed.  I find that my chiller displaces around 1.5 
gallons.  Five gallons of wort requires at least a 7 gallon kettle.  I use 
a 8 gallon kettle and have no problems.

Mike Fertsch

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Date: Thu, 13 Jul 89 10:52:14 MDT
From: stcvax!rlr at hplabs.HP.COM (Roger Rose)
Subject: RE: 1. Slow yeast  2. White scum

Chuck Ferguson writes:

> I had a some slow start on a batch of homebrew but I attributed it to
> the inability of the dry yeast to penetrate the foam barrier on the
> top of the wort.  I could see the powdered yeast just sitting there.
> I was tempted to rouse or stir the wort in the fermenter but decided
> not to.  It eventually took off and turned out OK.
> 
> Nowadays I re-hydrate dried yeast with a cup or so of tap water prior
> to pitching.  ...

Not stirring the wort is a potential cause of slow starts itself.  The
boiling drives out the dissolved oxygen which is used by the yeast in
early fermentation.  Stirring adds some oxygen back in.   Of course the
faster the yeast takes over, the less chance of bacterial contamination,
but the more undesirable fusel's are produced.  (Hopefully, the fusels
get broken down later.)

Anymore, I generally start my yeast in dextrose or malt ahead of time
to give it an opportunity to multiply.  Malt is preferred, but a 1/4 cup
of dextrose in the yeast starter isn't enough to affect the flavor on
heavier beers.

Cheryl Feinstein writes:

> This is my first time including fruit in a wort.  The recipe calls for one to
> boil up one's wort, cooking for 45 min, and then to pour 10lbs of cherries
> into the hot wort. This brings the temp down (hopefully) to 160-170 deg. F.,
> which one maintains for 15min.  This pasteurizes the cherries.  One is
> supposed to try not to let the temp get too high during this 15 min period, as
> there is the potential for bringing out the cherries' natural pectin,
> resulting in chill haze in the finished brew.
> ...
> This is where things started to get interesting.  After racking into the 
> secondary fermenting vessel (a glass jug) and putting the air lock on, I went 
> out of town for the holiday weekend.  When I returned, I discovered a white 
> scum on the surface of the brew.  The brew itself clarified nicely; the 
> whatever-it-is is *only* on the surface.  It seems to cling to the side of the
> jug; when I tipped the jug slightly it did so.

Fruit is always a trick since you can't boil it.  You could of course use
sulfites in the same manner as wine makers.

As far as the "white scum", I'll venture a totally off-the-wall guess.
It is common practice to spray wax or some similar substance on apples to
make them nice and shiny for the store.  Does anyone know for sure if
this is done to cherries??  (Just from looking at them, I'd suspect so.)

Roger Rose
   UUCP:    {ncar nbires}!stcvax!rlr
   USnail:  Storage Technology Corp. - MS1169 / Louisville, Co.  80028-1169
   phone:   (303) 673-6873

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Date:     Wed, 12 Jul 89 16:49 EDT
From: <LLUG_JI%DENISON.BITNET at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> (JOHN L. ISENHOUR)
Subject:  RE:194,198,199

Richard was asking in #198 about freeze sheild.  I have not used this product
but a person at Alternative Beverages told me that it was glycerine, which
is what I use for freezing cultures.  I get pint bottles at the pharmacy,
which is much cheaper than the little bottles, ask for it behind the counter.
 The special issue of Zymurgy (out next) will have a bunch of stuff on yeast
in it.

Cher, in #199 was wondering about 'scum' in the "Cherries in the Snow" brew.
Being perverse, I would call it "cherries in the scum" :-) to see if my friends
would drink it! I have used various fruits but have not had a persistant
foam/scum residue. I would suggest tasting it.  If it clears up as you stated
it was doing, and has a good palate, then its ok.  Contamination is usually
visible or detectable via odor or taste.  No pathogens can live in beer, it may
taste so bad you cannot drink it but it won't be fatal.  I judged barley wines
at the second round AHA conference, and one of the bottles actually had mold
growing on the surface of it! (blech), we decided to judge it anyway. It sounds
like your pasteurization process was ok, I generally smash my fruit (macerate)
before adding it to maximize liberation of the sugars. If you get pectin haze
you can try adding a little pectic enzyme.

Paul, in issue #194 comments on how a brewery in England uses hop pellets, for
ease of manipulation.  I am sure they produce an excellent product.  I adhere
to my view that for homebrewers, hop flowers are the best.  I have no problem
examining the flowers, and will not hesitate to return them if they are not in
peak condition.  I have had pellets that seemed ok, but upon boiling, a LOT of
woody/stalky pulp showed up, it was too late at that point, and bitterness was
not what it should have been. I feel its very evident when flowers are fresh,
but not so much when in pellet form.  Pardon my bitterness :-), but would an
American business person tend to take the most beautiful hop flowers and smash
them into pellets?  Home brewers don't have the clout that a brewery has, in
terms of demanding a consistant fresh product.  I purchase pellets when I have
to, but I get consistantly better results with hop flowers.

John Isenhour  LUG_JI at DENISON.BITNET

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Date: 13 Jul 89 08:12:00 PDT
From: "MR. DAVID HABERMAN" <habermand at afal-edwards.af.mil>
Subject: RE: Sake Recipe

In digest 199, Gregg TeHennepe asks about a recipe for Sake.  I will relate 
the information that I received in November when I asked the same question.  
Fred Eckhardt has a very good description of how to brew Sake in the "Best of 
Beer and Brewing Volumes 1-5" which is available from the AHA for $18.95.  The 
address and phone number is:
	American Homebrewers Association
	PO Box 287
	Boulder, Colorado   80306-0287   USA
	(303) 447-0816
I haven't tried making it yet, but maybe next year.

A friend of mine will be traveling through Northern California and Oregon and 
would like to know where the good brewpubs and breweries are to visit.

Thanks,			David

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Date: Thu, 13 Jul 89 12:49:13 PDT
From: cacilj!paul at uunet.UU.NET (Paul Close)
Subject: My beer tastes like wine!

HELP!  After several years of not brewing (with a few botched attempts at
brewing before that), I decided to try again.

It's now been three weeks since bottling, and I was eager to taste my new
beer.  It has a nice head, good carbonation, and is a nice dark amber color
(I guess from carmelization, since it is a light extract).  The problem is,
apart from a "raw" taste I assume is due to (lack of) age, the beer tastes
like wine!  My wife commented that it smelled like a good, hearty red wine!
:-(  (My sense of smell is not as keen; it smelled kind of like beer to me)

At all stages, I took care to sanitize everything with a weak bleach
solution, which I did *not* rinse off.  I used one teaspoon of bleach per
gallon of water.

Here's some background:

For simplicity, I decided to use a pre-hopped extract kit (an ale).  I
added the water and corn sugar, boiled the whole 5 gallons, chilled it in
the sink until it was cooled (an hour or so), and added the yeast, which I
had started earlier.  The coolest place in my house is around 70 degrees
(this is San Diego in the summer :-( ), so I put the wort there.  After a
few days, I siphoned it into a secondary.  The secondary fermented for
about three weeks, while the temerature varied between around 65 and 75
degrees (I have a max/min thermometer).  So far, so good.  My hydrometer
indicated it was ready, so I bulk-primed with 3/4 cup of corn sugar and
bottled.

Unfortunately, at this time we had a heat wave, and the temperature went up
to, and stayed at, 85-95 degrees (in the coolest area :-( ).  It "cooled" off
to about 75 at night.  It stayed that way for the first week while the beer
sat in bottles, then tapered off to more reasonable levels again (65-75).
The bottles are still there, at room temperature.  I chill them before
tasting.

It is rather difficult to describe a taste, but I will try.  Disclaimer: I
don't have any "beer taste" guidelines, or anything, just years of experience
drinking beer :-).  The first taste is pleasant enough, and reminds me of
beer (coincidence?  :-).  As the beer passes the tounge, I notice a woody or
"corkish" taste that reminds me of wine.  There isn't much of an aftertaste,
but there is the impression of sourness.  There also seems to be a noticeable
alcohol taste, as if there was a high alcohol content, like there is in wine
(my hydrometer indicated it should be 5%).  After a few swallows, my mouth
has an unpleasant "dry" feel to it, and the sour impression strengthens.
After a quarter-glass or so, I throw out the rest.  Yuck!

Please help me!  I'm loosing confidence in brewing beer, and hearing about
everyone else happily (and successfully) brewing out of old garbage pails has
me down.  My first few batches years ago were ruined thanks to Metabisulfate.
Then I had problems with contamination and "gushers".  This time, I was very
careful, and used bleach, and things worked a LOT better.  This is my third
batch, and not one has been drinkable (not counting this one--I still have
some hope).  I would "relax, have a homebrew" if I could make some that was
drinkable!

P.S. My beer is still sitting at room temperature.  Should I refrigerate it
now?  Once the beer is in bottles, what is a good procedure?  Immediately
chill, or sit for a while, or ???

P.P.S. Sorry about the length....  And thanks for any help!
-- 
Paul Close	paul at cacilj.CTS.COM 	...!{uunet, ucsd, crash}!cacilj!paul

    The Obi-wan Kenobi method:  "Use the Source, Luke"	-Jim Fulton

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #201, 07/14/89

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