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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

Contents:
  Under-Pitching: Why You Should Not Have to Do It (Dr. T. Andrews)
  Re:  Homebrew Digest #199 (July 12, 1989) (Paul Perlmutter)
  Cherry beers (ROSS)
  Quarter barrels. (Tom Hotchkiss)
  Nitrosamines (florianb)
  rootbeer (Marty Albini)
  Cambridge (England) (Martin D. Weinberg)
  Brewing Equipment (man)
  Priming Draft Beer (Dave Suurballe)
  Kegging Headspace (KDISEN01)

Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com


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Date: Tue, 11 Jul 89 7:07:22 EDT
From: Dr. T. Andrews <tanner at ki4pv>
Subject: Under-Pitching: Why You Should Not Have to Do It

) Homebrewers are notorious underpitchers because nobody wants to
) hassle making a starter several days ahead.
There's really no reason that it has  to  be  this  way,  though.
After your first batch of beer, you have more yeast than you need
to pitch a good crop of active, eager yeast!

Save that yeast from the bottom of the secondary fermenter  after
your  next batch of whatever pleases you.  I use Dogbolter yeast.
Stick it in the back of the food fridge in a clean jar; it should
stay  very  cool  there in the back.  This is step one.  One pass
through step one will serve for several batches of beer.

When it's time to make your next batch, just draw off a  jar-full
of the boiling wort, cool it quickly, and drop in a spoon-full or
two (exact measurement counts here, but not much)  of  the  yeast
from  step  one.   Cover  with  plate.  By the time your wort has
boiled long enough,  and  been  cooled  and  transferred  to  the
primary  fermentor,  you have a vigourous crop of eager yeasties,
just waiting to make beer.

Forgot to save some yeast (you skipped step one)?  Well,  we  can
still  help you.  Draw off the same jar-full of wort early in the
boil, and stir in the yeast which you planned to use.  Cover with
the same clean plate.  You should still have a good start.
--
...!bikini.cis.ufl.edu!ki4pv!tanner  ...!bpa!cdin-1!ki4pv!tanner
or...  {allegra attctc gatech!uflorida uunet!cdin-1}!ki4pv!tanner

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Date: Wed, 12 Jul 89 10:22:54 mdt
From: Paul Perlmutter <paul at heaven>
Subject: Re:  Homebrew Digest #199 (July 12, 1989)

The Beer News from England:

(From The Times: Tuesday, 11 July)

Britain's biggest  breweries are to retain the ownership of their public
houses despite a Monopolies and Mergers Commission  recommendation  that
they should be forced to sell 22,000 of them.

In a move to bring greater  competition  into the beer market,  however,
they are being  forced to allow  11,000  of their  premises  across  the
country to become free houses.

The big six - Allied Lyons, Bass, Courage, Grand Metropolitan,  Scottish
and  Newcastle,  and  Whitbread - are to be requied to lease out half of
the pubs that they own above a threshold of 2,000.

And in a  government  move to  encourage  cheaper  soft  drinks  and low
alcohol beers, tenants of the national  brewers are to be allowed to buy
those and  other  products  from any  source.  Tenants  of the  national
brewers will also be allowed to offer a "guest" beer to their customers.

(later on in article ...)
The Brewers'  Society  said it regretted  the  decision,  which would be
damaging for consumers,  while the  Consumers'  Association  accused the
Government  of failing to break the big brewers'  stranglehold  over the
supply of beer.

Paul Perlmutter
(Ace reporter from Bristol)

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Date: Wed, 12 Jul 89 08:37 EDT
From: ROSS at mscf.med.upenn.edu
Subject: Cherry beers

Date sent:  12-JUL-1989 08:18:10 

I have made both of the cherry beer recipes from Joys of Homebrewing.  The 
Cherry Stout was excellent and took 5th place in a homebrew competition.  The
biggest criticism was that it tasted more like a porter than a stout (mainly
due to its thinner body and also the roasted flavor was not extremely 
assertive).  But this was certainly one of the best brews that I have made.

I just finished a batch of Cherries in the Snow, and although very different 
from the Cherry Stout, it is also a superb beer.  A very nice pink/red color,
very light and refreshing.  Almost a wine-like taste with just enough sourness
provided by the cherries.

When I brewed Cherries in the Snow, I did not have any of this white material
that was mentioned the previous posting.  It sounds like a case of possible
contamination.  I did a few things a bit differently in case you are 
interested.

Cherry preparation:  Removed the stems, washed throughly, then I crushed them
                     in a bowl using a masher.
Removal of cherries from primary:  I found that the simplest, fastest, cleanist
 method for removing the cherries from your beer when transferring to the
 secondary fermenter is the following.  Simply pour your beer though a stainer
 directly into the secondary.  Don't bother siphoning around those pits 
 (doesn't work very well).  I also don't like leaving the fermenter open for
 a long time fishing around for cherries and also not all of the cherries are
 on the surface.  If you are worried about aerating the beer, you can do the
 following.  Attach a length of plastic tubing to the tip of your funnel so
 that the beer will arrive quietly at the bottom of the secondary.  Then place
 your stainer over the funnel, and pour away.

	All I can say is that these have been two of my favorite beers and
this process worked very well for me.

			--- Andy Ross ---
                    University of Pennsylvania

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Date: Wed, 12 Jul 89 8:28:10 MDT
From: Tom Hotchkiss <trh at hpestrh>
Subject: Quarter barrels.

Gregg TeHennepe writes concerning quarter barrels.  I have brewed two batches
for quarter barrels now, and it works great!  Here are a few of the tricks I
have learned:

1. You don't need a larger secondary, you already have one (the keg)!  I
   simply bought another primary fermenter (not too expensive) and brewed
   a 7.8 gal. batch.  I split the wort equally between the two primaries.
   Then, I siphoned all of it into the keg for secondary fermentation.
   The local homebrew shop had a rubber bung large enough to fit the keg
   opening, so I could attach an airlock directly to the keg.  There are
   some notches in the keg opening that aren't sealed by the rubber bung,
   so I just covered these up with scotch tape or something.
   Once complete, I siphoned all the beer back into the primaries, added
   sugar (about 2/3 the amount I would have used for bottles), rinsed the
   keg, and siphoned the beer back into the keg.  Leave sealed for 1 or 2
   weeks.  Tap and pour using natural carbonation pressure.  Once the natural
   pressure gets too low, turn on the CO2.

2. When I got the keg, I took the valve out and took the thing down to one
   of those self service car washes and rinsed out the inside using the
   high pressure rinse.  Then I filled the keg with a water and baking
   soda solution (I can't remember the strength) and let it sit for a few
   days to "sweeten" the keg (this seems to get rid of all lingering odors).
   Finally, sanitize with the normal chlorine solution.

3. If you don't have a recipie for a 7.8 gallon batch, take a 5 gallon recipie
   and double it to make 10 gallons.  When siphoning into the secondary, just
   put any excess into 1 gallon jars.  I did this once, and had enough excess
   to fill a 1 case of bottled beer.
   
I have a refrigerator with a CO2 system for the keg, and believe me, this is
the best way to store and serve homebrew!  Having some friends over?  Well,
just whip out pitcher and fill it with fresh, cold homebrew.  The only
drawback to this scheme is removing and replacing the valve.  This is a real
pain, and the only suggestion I have is: use 3 hands, one or two kitchen
knives, a screwdriver, and have lots of patience.  You'll get better at
it the more you do it.

===============================================================================

Tom Hotchkiss
VLSI Designer
Hewlett Packard
3404 E. Harmony Rd.
Fort Collins, CO. 80525

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Date: Wed, 12 Jul 89 11:00:09 mdt
From: Richard Stern <rstern at hpcslb>
Full-Name: Richard Stern

Some recent postings have sparked a few questions I'd like to ask:

How many folks use hop and/or grain bags??

Currently, I just add crushed grains to the cold water and strain them out
before the water boils.  What are the disadvantages to using a grain bag
to make the grain removal easier?

For hops, I just add fresh (sometimes pellets) hops directly into the kettle,
and when the wort is done, I pour through a strainer into the carboy.  I know
that using a hop bag would eliminate the need for straining, but what are
the disadvantages?  Will hop bags work for the finishing hops?  
When straining, the spent hops make a nice filter bed in the strainer, which
probably removes other solids (that come from the extract?), so using a hop
bag will eliminate this filter bed. Is this OK?

I'd appreciate any/all comments on this topic!!  

Thanks,
Richard Stern
rstern at col.hp.com

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Date: 12 Jul 89 12:58:02 PDT (Wed)
From: florianb at tekred.cna.tek.com
Subject: Nitrosamines

Bob Swanson inquired:

>One of the questions in my mind is whether
>these same "shortcut" techniques are used
>by the makers of real ale in Britain.  It is assumed
>that such techniques are common in the tank farms of
>mass consumption brews, including lager.

>For this forum, the question would be:
>Do we home brewers have any control over the
>generation of nitrosamines in our brews?  I am

Presumably, if the nitrosamines are generated during the roasting process,
they will not be present in lagers.

I too, recall discussion of these chemicals in dark beers some time back.
In fact, one amusing incident occurred in a bar about 5 years ago.  I 
stepped up to the bar and ordered a Black Hook Porter.  An extremely
inebriated fellow stood holding onto the bar with one hand and his 
glass of light ale in the other.  He looked at my Black Hook and blubbered:
"Ah n-n-n-ever t-t-t-touch t-t-he st-st-uff!"  "What?" I asked.
"N-N-N-N-itrosamines!" he said.  I figured he was some kind of biochem
grad student crackpot and didn't pay any further attention to it until
just now.  I think nitrosamines are worth being concerned over, but they
won't keep me from drinking home brew.

I DO think one should be concerned about the brands and types of
extracts.  I have read that some of the hopped extracts use hop extract
obtained through the use of nasty chemicals like benzene.  It might be
advisable to stay away from hopped extracts.

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Date: Wed, 12 Jul 89 13:51:37 PDT
From: Marty Albini <hplabs!hpsdle!martya>
Subject: rootbeer

	I'd like to make some root beer. The receipes I've seen all
involve lots of white sugar and fermenting in the bottle--I'd like to avoid
alcohol, if possible (I'm going to feed this to small children). How much
alcohol is produced in the bottle priming? Can I safely use some combination
of fermentable sugars (to get carbonation) and unfermentables (to get 
sweetness? Do I have to use champagne yeast or will beer yeasts work?

	Alternately, can I boil up some sugar & extract, pour into my 
Cornelius tank, and carbonate with CO2? 

	If this subject has come up before, please e-mail.
Any help would be appreciated!
 
_________________________________________________Marty Albini_______
phone    : (619) 592-4177
UUCP     : {hplabs|nosc|hpfcla|ucsd}!hp-sdd!martya
Internet : martya%hp-sdd at hp-sde.sde.hp.com (or  at nosc.mil,  at ucsd.edu)
CSNET    : martya%hp-sdd at hplabs.csnet
US mail  : Hewlett-Packard Co., 16399 W. Bernardo Drive, San Diego CA 92127-1899 USA

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Date: Wed, 12 Jul 89 17:02:17 EDT
From: weinberg at duvel.ias.edu (Martin D. Weinberg)
Subject: Cambridge (England)

I will be visiting Cambridge for a few weeks . . . does anybody
here have any suggestions for things to do, see and drink?

-Martin Weinberg
 weinberg at guinness.ias.edu

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Date: 12 Jul 89 19:09:28 EDT (Wed)
From: man at granjon.att.com
Subject: Brewing Equipment

Many thanks to Steve Conklin for his pointer on Stainless brewing kettles
and the RAPIDS company.  My catalog is on the way.  In reference to
stainless kettles and mashing, what is the minimum size needed.  I
would think 7 gallons is the minimum (for a 5 gallon batch).  What is the
consensus ?  Another item I plan on buying is a wort chiller.  Which of the
two main styles is best ?  Is the internal-coil type worth $30 more than
the immersion type ?  Thanks.

Mark Nevar
att!granjon!man
arpa!granjon!man

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Date: Wed, 12 Jul 89 15:32:36 PDT
From: hsfmsh!hsfdjs!suurb at Sun.COM (Dave Suurballe)
Subject: Priming Draft Beer

Gregg TeHennepe writes (in #199):

> I was just planning to follow normal procedure, except to dump
> the priming sugar into the keg instead of the bottles -
> is this okay?  Another potential problem is that there will be
> a significant air space in the keg, since my secondary carboy
> is only 5 gal.  Is this a problem?

No, this is not a problem, but you need to use a different
quantity of priming sugar, because you have a different
liquid-to-air ratio in this container.

I'm sure you've noticed this phenomenon.  When I bottle a batch,
the last bottle is never completely full, and when the beer is
completely conditioned, that last bottle is always undercarbonated.
That's because there was less beer in the bottle, and therefore
less sugar in the bottle, and therefore less gas in the bottle
after conditioning.  And if there's less gas in the bottle,
there's less gas in the beer.

Kegging a batch is just like bottling a batch, except that
you're using only one big bottle instead of fifty smaller ones.
If the head space in the big package is the same as in the
small ones, you could use the same priming as when you bottle,
but it isn't.  It's more like the big head space in the last
bottle of the fifty, and if you use the same priming, the keg
is going to be undercarbonated, just like the last bottle.
Obviously, the bigger the head space, the more sugar you are
going to need.

I don't know how full you normally fill your bottles, but let's
assume it's about 12 ounces of beer and 1.5 ounces of air.  Your
current quantity of priming sugar is correct for this ratio only.
The keg is going to be 5 gallons of beer and 2.75 gallons of air,
and the beer has to have more sugar in it to fill the extra air
space at the correct pressure.

The formula is:

  	      ounces of beer in bottle   7.75
keg priming = ------------------------ * ---- * bottle priming
	       bottle size in ounces      5

For example, assuming you prime with a cup of sugar, and you
siphon 12 ounces of beer into 13.5-ounce bottles:

	       12    7.75
keg priming = ---- * ---- * 1 cup = 1.38 cups
	      13.5    5

If your 5-gallon batches, like mine, are not always exactly
five gallons, substitute the actual size for the '5' in the
formula.  In the example above, a 4.75 gallon batch in the
keg would need 1.45 cups of sugar.  (I'll bet the difference
is insignificant).

The formula can apply to different keg sizes, as well.
Substitute the true keg size (in gallons) for the '7.75'.

Dave Suurballe

Domain: sfsun!hsfmsh!suurb at sun.com
UUCP:   ...!sun!sfsun!hsfmsh!suurb

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Date:          Wed, 12 Jul 89 23:32 EDT
From: <KDISEN01%ULKYVX.BITNET at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject:       Kegging Headspace

In response to the question about extra headspace when kegging beer, I am
totally in favor of kegging, as my friends almost never rinse bottles after a
certain point.  I deal with the O2 problem, by flushing the keg with CO2 from
one of my C02 tanks prior to filling, this largely eliminates oxidation.  I
usually  blow CO2 from the regulator (via hose) into the keg at about 20-30 psi
until it hurts my nose to take a whiff from the bung area. The C02 is heavier
than air and will form a blanket as the keg fills.  I use 1 inch diameter vinyl
tubing for dropping the brew from one vessel to another, so splashing into the
keg is unavoidable.  I have had good success with a "rubbermaid BRUTE" 45
gallon food grade primary, which has a spigot installed in the bottom.  I use
this as a primary, then gravity flow it down a flight of stairs into C02
flushed kegs, I then install fermentation locks with a #11 stopper in the
bunghole.  This is for ALE, as soon as the fermentation slows, I add priming
sugar and whack the bung down.  The stuff is served shortly after, in the real
ale tradition.  If its a lager I let it age in one keg, then rack it to another
to prime/lager.

John Isenhour   The Cambier of Gambier  LLUG_JI at DENISON

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #200, 07/13/89

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