---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Digest is up for sale (Digest Janitor)
  Re: Great Taste of the Midwest Festival (When?) (fwd) (Robert Paolino)
  Homebrewers in Greece? (Peter Stavropoulos)
  I am glad for you (fwd)/funny (Shiva Vakili)
  Boilovers. (Bucket99)
  Labels (Dazed Cummings)
  1996 Buzz-Off Competition ("Houseman, David L           TR")
  RIMS Temp Gradients (hollen)
  Pump Cavitation and Flow Rates (hollen)
  Dry hop scum? (Mike Kidulich)
  Lager fermentation is too SLOW??? (mabry)
  silymarin: another hangover cure ?? (Andy Walsh)
  silymarin (Andy Walsh)
  Is this fruity or WHAT?! ("Sharon A. Ritter")


NOTE NEW HOMEBREW ADDRESS hpfcmgw!

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  then you MUST unsubscribe the same way! 
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For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at alpha.rollanet.org
ARCHIVES:
  An archive of previous issues of this digest, as well as other beer
  related information can be accessed via anonymous ftp at
  ftp.stanford.edu.  Use ftp to log in as anonymous and give your full
  e-mail address as the password, look under the directory
  /pub/clubs/homebrew/beer directory.  AFS users can find it under
  /afs/ir.stanford.edu/ftp/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer.  If you do not have
  ftp capability you may access the files via e-mail using the ftpmail
  service at gatekeeper.dec.com.  For information about this service,
  send an e-mail message to ftpmail at gatekeeper.dec.com with the word
  "help" (without the quotes) in the body of the message.


----------------------------------------------------------------------


From: Rob Gardner (Digest Janitor)
Subject: Digest is up for sale


I am looking for a stable, responsible party to take over ownership of
the Homebrew Digest as soon as possible. I will provide all necessary
assistance with the transition. If interested please email me
immediately: rdg at fc.hp.com.


Rob


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Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 20:58:34 -0500 (CDT)
From: Robert Paolino <rpaolino at execpc.com>
Subject: Re: Great Taste of the Midwest Festival (When?) (fwd)


Oooops!  Someone read my message and made a good point--I didn't mention 
the date or location for the GREAT TASTE OF THE MIDWEST in my 
"by-the-way" post with the Big and Huge reminder.

I guess we're just so overwhelmed with "when-can-we-buy-tickets?" that
sometimes I just assume that everyone knows.  Bad assumption, eh?

So here it is: 10-AUG-96, 1-6pm, Olin-Turville Park, Madison, WI 50-60 (or
more?) brewers / 200+ beers $16 for glass and almost unlimited sampling.

Now it's time for me to go out and...

Now go have a beer,


Bob Paolino                                     
Madison                                    rpaolino at earth.execpc.com
You may now go back to your regularly-scheduled beer


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Date: Sat, 27 Apr 1996 14:44:28 +0300
From: Peter Stavropoulos <sgs at hol.gr>
Subject: Homebrewers in Greece?

I am looking for any fellow homebrewers in Greece. Anybody out there (?)
please drop me a e-mail.
Thanks.


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Date: Sat, 27 Apr 1996 17:17:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: Shiva Vakili <vakili at pobox.upenn.edu>
Subject: I am glad for you (fwd)/funny

Dear Ancil, I hope you will get this yourself . I have sent a note to you 
but it is gone to Homebrew.mail I feel really stupid and mad!!Read it it 
is comical.


Forwarded message:
> From venezia at zgi.com Sat Apr 27 10:53:27 1996
> Date: Sat, 27 Apr 1996 07:52:02 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Domenick Venezia <venezia at zgi.com>
> To: Shiva Vakili <vakili at pobox.upenn.edu>
> Subject: I am glad for you
> 
> 
> In Homebrew Digest #2022 vakili at pobox.upenn.edu says:
> 
> >Thank you so very much for inviting us. It was just fabolous. Yahya says
> >he does not remember having such a great time for such a long time. You
> >know he loves you and he became very much in fond of Sam your cousin.  He
> >is so nice. oF COURSE yASHA AND i HAD A GREAT TIME. bUT i REALLY WAS SO
> >THRILLED THAT yAHYA HAD SUCH A GOOD TIME. SO i FEEl like I had trpple good
> >time! He was also so excited to see Lewis, from his tisses time!! Oh what
> >a great time we had. Thanks . You did it again . 
> 
> I am soooo glad that you and Yahya had a good time.  You will all have to
> do it again some time.  But next time you may not want to post your
> thank-you note to the Homebrew Digest.  If memory serves this is not the
> first time. 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Domenick Venezia
> Computer Resources
> ZymoGenetics, Inc.
> Seattle, WA
> venezia at zgi.com
> 
> 
> 



- -- 
Shiva Vakili				
University of Pennsylvania Libraries			
Tel: (215) 898-4925		        	email vakili at pobox.upenn.edu
****************************************************************************


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Date: Sat, 27 Apr 1996 17:41:57 -0400
From: Bucket99 at aol.com
Subject: Boilovers.

Hello all.

I unintentionally conducted a wholly unscientific test today during my boil.

Previously, in my brewing process I had come to expect the hazard of
boilovers.
And accordingly, watched my brewpot carefully.

With this latest recipe, I used a different brand of malt extract,  Northwest
verses
the previous M & F.

Also I added burton water salts at the beginning of the boil.

And throughout the boil, it didn't even TRY to boil over?

This circumstance leaves me happily puzzled.

All other aspects of the recipe were the same as in previous boils.

Perhaps my water is too soft, and I have "cured" it?

(My water hardness is 15 grains).

Anyway, thanks for adding my rambling observations to the collective.

Paul McFarland    

(Brewing in the Heartland, and beer hunting all over the world) 



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Date: Sat, 27 Apr 1996 16:20:46 -0600 (MDT)
From: Dazed Cummings <woodstok at rupert.oscs.montana.edu>
Subject: Labels

This is a question for all you beer lovers and label makers,

I love to dink around with my current desktop publishing program (Publish 
It) but it is for dos and has a tendency to crash now and again.  It's a 
great program, but I can't just cut and past like I can in Windows, or 
use all my groovy TT Fonts from Windows.  So, does anyone know of a great 
windows based program that is suitable for making labels?  

Thanks in advance,

Dave

Life's a beer,
Brew it up...

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Date: Sun, 28 Apr 96 11:25:00 EDT
From: "Houseman, David L TR" <DLH1 at trpo3.tr.unisys.com>
Subject: 1996 Buzz-Off Competition


First Notice of the third Buzz-Off Competition.

American Homebrewers Association and BJCP Sanctioned Competition
Beer Unlimited Zany Zymurgists Present

The Third Annual
BUZZ-OFF

Sunday, June 30, 1996, 10:00 AM
Victory Brewing Company
420 Acorn Lane
Downingtown, PA

Location/Sponsors
This year s competition will be sponsored by Beer Unlimited, BUZZ, the 
Victory Brewing Company and other local sponsors..  The event will be open 
to the public as Victory Brewing Company is a brewpub and microbrewery.  The 
food and beer are excellent.  The awards ceremony will follow the 
competition.

Eligibility
The 1996 Buzz-Off  Homebrew Competition is open to all non-commercial 
home-produced beers.
Enter as often as you wish.  Enter as many categories as you wish.

Categories
The 1996 BUZZ-Off will judge beer, mead, and cider styles recognized by the 
American Homebrewers
Association and the BJCP.  The ususal 1996 AHA categories and subcategories 
will be used.    All entries must indicate category, subcategory, and style 
description.  Sake will be enjoyed, but not judged.  All entries will be 
judged according to the style entered; however, categories  may be combined 
with related categories for the presentation of awards.

Awards and Prizes
Certificates of achievement, first, second and third place ribbons will be 
awarded in each category or combined category as well as for the BEST of 
SHOW.  BUZZ will secure commercial sponsorship for category winners.   All 
questions and disputes will be settled by the competition organizer.  All 
decisions will be final.

Entries
An entry consists of two (2) bottles, accompanied by a completed 
entry/recipe form  -- one for each entry.  A bottle ID form must be attached 
to each bottle with  rubber bands -- No glue or tape.
Beers must be in clean 10-16 ounce glass bottles, free of labels, raised 
glass, silk screen, or other identifying markings.  Any markings on the cap 
must be completely blacked out.  No swing-top bottles.
All entries become the property of  BUZZ.  No bottles will be returned.

Entry Fees & Deadlines
Entry fees are $5.00 per entry.   Make check payable to  Beer Unlimited. 
 Entries must arrive between June 15 and June 24, 1996. Entries will not be 
accepted before June 15 or after June 24, 1995, except for entries by judges 
and stewards which may be brought the day of the competition if pre-paid 
registratrion is received by Jun 24th.  Send entries to:

               BUZZ- Off
               c/o Beer Unlimited
               Rts 30 & 401
               Malvern,  PA  19355

Local entries may be dropped off between June 15 and June 24, 1995  at any 
of the Philadelphia Area homebrewing stores.
     
Packing  and  Shipping
Pack in a sturdy box.  Pad each bottle and the inside of the box.  Line box 
with heavy trash bag and twist-tie securely.  Pack entry forms, recipe 
forms, and fees outside the bag.  Mark the box Fragile.  UPS is recommended 
for shipping.

Beer Label Contest
Beer labels will be judged for artistic merit and appropriateness to the 
style for the label entry.  Entry fee is $2.00.  Each label must be 
accompanied by an entry form.  In order to show off your labels in their 
natural environment, submit entries attached to an empty, capped beer 
bottle.   First, second and third place ribbons will be awarded.

Delaware Valley Homebrewer of  The Year
The BUZZ-Off is the final jewel in the local homebrewing  crown: The 1996 
Delaware Valley Homebrewer of the Year will be chosen based on points 
awarded from the Hops-Bops, War of the Worts, Dock Street,  Moon Madness and 
BUZZ-Off  Competitions.

Judges
We will secure the most experienced, qualified BJCP judges possible.  We are 
soliciting qualified judges and stewards from all participating homebrew 
clubs.  Judges and stewards will be awarded experience points toward the 
Beer Judge Certification Program.  Prospective judges and stewards are 
requested to fill out the attached form.  You will be contacted individually 
to confirm participation and given directions to the contest.  Since this 
year we are holding this event at a new brewery/brew pub in our area, there 
is even more reason to come and spend the day out of the hot sun.   The 
competition will begin promptly at 10:00am.  Stewards and judgees are 
requested to be present by 9:00am for final assignments.

Bed and Brew
Judges and stewards from out of the area are welcome to participate in the 
Bed and Brew program.   There are three other brew pubs in the area now, 
Valley Forge, The Sly Fox and the Lancaster Malt Brewing Company in addition 
to the fine Victory Brewing Company so come in early the day before and tour 
the breweries in the area.   BUZZ club members are opening their homes for 
those traveling from some distance who would like to have a place to stay 
for Saturday June 29th and Sunday June 30th.  Please indicate your desire to 
have a place to stay on the Judge/Steward Registration Form and you will be 
contacted several weeks prior to the contest.

You may enter using the standard recipe, bottle label and judge 
participation forms or
For further information contact:

Jim McHale at Beer Unlimited   (610) 889-0905
or
 Dave Houseman                   H: (610) 458-0743          
 Competition Organizer      W:(610) 648-4071      
 dlh1 at trpo3.tredydev.unisys.com



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Date: Sat, 27 Apr 96 10:38:26 PDT
From: hollen at vigra.com
Subject: RIMS Temp Gradients


This is a followup on temperature measurement of the grain bed in a
RIMS system.  Earlier, I measured the temp in many places in the grain
bed and reported that it did not differ by more than 1 degree.  While
that is still the case, I did my previous measurements after the
grain bed had stabilized temperature, about 1/2 hour into the mash.
Today, I placed the probe in the mash while the boost was occurring
and found a very interesting data point.

Understand that the probe for the temp controller is on the input side
of the heater chamber and the probe for my digital thermometer is on
the output side.  The controller is set to cause the output side to
read correctly to the desired set point.  I had always assumed that if
I wanted a 150F mash bed, set the output of the heater to 150F and
*some time* later, the mash bed would come to equilibrium with the
heater chamber outflow temp.  I never know how long this would take.

My observations today show that it takes about 15 minutes with the
controller set at the setpoint.  When the controller backed off the
heater, the mash bed was about 4 degrees behind.  Since the
differential between the wort temp and the grain bed was small, and
getting smaller, the grain bed came up slowly to the setpoint.

This leads to the following suggestion which I still will have to
prove in practice, it is still a theory.  If you want the temp to
stabilize sooner, run the setpoint about 4 degrees above what you
want, then when it reaches it, turn it down 4 degrees to your actual
temp.  This should hit the setpoint in the grainbed sooner.  Of
course, without measurements, I do not know what "sooner" is.

The ideal arrangement would be to have the temp controller's sensor
actually in the mash, but this would tend to get dicey if you were
trying to mash at the high end of the enzyme range because the heater
would put out much hotter wort than the end setpoint for about 10 to
15 minutes and you could denature the enzymes while reaching the
setpoint in the grain bed.

Another method would be to leave the sensor in the heater chamber, set
to the exact set point, take measurements on *your* system so that you
know the lag time and just not start timing the mash until setpoint
reached plus lag time.

Any comments on my logic, or other measurement experiences?

dion


Dion Hollenbeck (619)597-7080x164                 Email: hollen at vigra.com
Sr. Software Engineer - Vigra Div. of Visicom Labs  San Diego, California

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Date: Sat, 27 Apr 96 09:44:39 PDT
From: hollen at vigra.com
Subject: Pump Cavitation and Flow Rates


I have been exchanging Email with a couple of people about pump
cavitation and flow rates and said that I would test my system out and
report.  Seemed useful to a lot of people, so I am posting.

First issue is whether my Little Giant 5-MD-SC pump cavitated when
starved on the input side.  Answer is yes.  When I close the valve on
my mash tun outlet to the pump, the "sandy, gritty" sound occurs.

Next question was what my flow rates are like.  I was able to measure
the flow rate with no grain, just recirculating my mash water.  It was
4GPM.  I just switched to the latest issue of the Phil's Phalse Bottom
which has a much more open percentage than the one that I bought 3
years ago.  When a grain bed of 14.5# is in, I have a rate of about
3GPM.  I do have problems with slow flow rate (almost nil) when I get
up to 18#, but that is with the old PPB.  I will report flow rates for
the new PPB with 18# when I brew my Belgian Strong Ale in two weeks.
I strongly suspect that more open area will alleviate the problem.

dion

Dion Hollenbeck (619)597-7080x164                 Email: hollen at vigra.com
Sr. Software Engineer - Vigra Div. of Visicom Labs  San Diego, California

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Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 18:11:55 -0400
From: Mike Kidulich <mjkid at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Dry hop scum?

Greetings to all,

I dry-hopped an ESB one week ago Sunday. After about four days, a white 
"skin" has formed atop my beer. It is fairly heavy, but is not fuzzy and 
has not changed in appearance in several days. As this my first dry-hop, 
should I be concerned? It looks really gross. I have not tasted the beer 
for off flavors. 

BTW, I used 1/2 oz. Fuggles pellets, just dumped into the secondary.

TIA
- -- 
Mike Kidulich
mjkid at ix.netcom.com  mjk at rfc.comm.harris.com
DNRC Minister of Home Brewing, Relaxation, and Really Cool Toys
Holder of Previous Knowledge O-

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Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 18:35:00 -0400
From: mabry at crimson.mv.com
Subject: Lager fermentation is too SLOW???


Hi,

I'm brewing my first lager, a Helles Municher from the Papazian book, modified 
for all extract.  It has been in the primary fermenter for 2 weeks happily 
bubbling away, in my basement at 52 F (I live in NH).  I used Wyeast Bohemian 
yeast.  Being impatient, and since the foam was starting to subside, I took a 
hydrometer reading 3 days ago and it read 1.042!  Original gravity was 1.058.  
I was panicked, but I relaxed and waited.  Today I took another hydrometer 
reading and got 1.041.  Now I'm bummin'.  Is this the dreaded stuck 
fermentation?  What should I do?  What caused this?  

Two other things of note:  1) I pitched the yeast too warm, about 84F.  2) The 
fermentation is releasing CO2 steadily, even as the foam dies down.  In my 
mushroom style airlock, I get a bubble every 10 seconds.  This has been steady 
for a week.

Any help or comments are much appreciated.


- -- 
Mark Mabry
mabry at crimson.mv.com



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Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 11:44:51 +1100
From: Andy Walsh <awalsh at crl.com.au>
Subject: silymarin: another hangover cure ??

I read in the w/e's newspaper about another "great hangover cure that is all
the rage on the internet": milk thistle.
I have never heard of this stuff, but was interested, as some of you may also 
be.
So I did a search on it and came up with the following information, taken from 
the web page:

http://planetmaggie.pcchcs.saic.com/thistle.html

I have removed most of the text, for brevity.
*************
Milk Thistle, Nature's Liver Protector

Milk Thistle is native to the Kashmir region of India and Pakistan, but it now
flourishes throughout the temperate world. The plant grows from five to ten 
feet tall,and has large prickly leaves and reddish purple flowers with sharp 
spines that resemble artichokes. When despined, milk thistle leaves are edible, 
and some vegetable gardeners cultivate the plant as a substitute for spinach. 
When broken or crushed, the stems and leaves exude a milky white juice, hence 
this herb's common name. 

With the rise of the modern pharmaceutical industry, research of herbal 
medicines declined considerably in the United States. Fortunately, this did 
not happen in Germany, where in 1949, scientists noticed that milk thistle 
seemed to protect animal livers from poisoning from highly toxic carbon 
tetrachloride. In 1968, scientists isolated the three specific liver 
protective molecules in milk thistle -- silibinin, silidianin, and silicristin 
- -- now collectively known as silymarin.

More than 100 studies have confirmed silymarin's liver-protective value. 
Here's a brief overview of what researchers have discovered:

Alcoholic Cirrhosis. A 1989 report in the Journal of Hepatology (the study of 
the liver) described a study involving 170 people with advanced alcoholic 
cirrhosis, an often-fatal condition, and the nation's 11th leading cause of 
death, claiming 25,000 lives each year. The study participants were divided 
into two groups. One received 200 mg of milk thistle extract (140 mg of 
silymarin) three times a day, the other received a medically inactive 
look-alike placebo. Both groups were followed for four years. During that 
time, the death rate in the placebo group was about 60 percent, but among 
those taking silymarin, only 40 percent died, a highly statistically 
significant difference. Other studies have shown that silymarin provides
similar benefits for people suffering cirrhosis.

<snip other studies, including amanita muscaria poisoning, hepatitis, 
gallstones...>

Recently, Scandinavian researchers tested silymarin's effect on livers that 
were stressed but not seriously diseased. They selected 106 consecutive 
patients who had abnormal liver function tests from alcohol, but who did not 
have cirrhosis. Half took silymarin; the other half received a placebo. 
After four weeks, the placebo group showed no change in liver function, but 
the silymarin group showed highly significant improvement, in some cases, 
complete normalization of liver function, despite their alcohol consumption.

Silymarin is available at herb shops and natural food stores.
***************
None of the above is my personal view etc.

Might be worthy of a bit of homebrewers' research, heh? (yeah, I know this 
does not mention hangovers - but the newspaper article I read certainly did).
I'll buy some tablets and try some.
Maybe even add some milk thistle to your next brew? (The silymarin is derived
from the seeds, I believe).

- -- 
Andrew Walsh			CHAD Research Laboratories
Phone (61 2) 212 6333		5/57 Foveaux Street
Fax   (61 2) 212 1336		Surry Hills. NSW. 2010
email awalsh at crl.com.au		Australia.


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Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 11:59:43 +1100
From: Andy Walsh <awalsh at crl.com.au>
Subject: silymarin

I found another page with abstracts from a variety of scientific papers 
concerning silymarin. Check out,

http://www.thorne.com/silymarin.html

These give a bit more weight (for you scientific types) to the benefits 
of this drug.

- -- 
Andrew Walsh			CHAD Research Laboratories
Phone (61 2) 212 6333		5/57 Foveaux Street
Fax   (61 2) 212 1336		Surry Hills. NSW. 2010
email awalsh at crl.com.au		Australia.


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Date: 28 Apr 96 22:23:46 EDT
From: "Sharon A. Ritter" <102446.3717 at CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Is this fruity or WHAT?!

I recently brewed and kegged an English Special Bitter style ale using 
Wyeast 1968. The recipe looked like this:
 
6 1/2 lbs. English 2-row
8 oz. Belgian CaraMunich
4 oz. Flaked Wheat
1 1/2 oz. Chocolate
35 IBU's East Kent Goldings + 1 oz Goldings dry-hopped in the keg
OG: 1040  FG: 1.007
Primary fermentation 7 days  at  68F
No process problems other than a difficult sparge (culprit: the flaked 
wheat?)

As I poured my first glass this afternoon (drum roll), I carefully 
examined the color (clear and appropriately deep amber), the aroma 
(Goldings loud and clear - no diacetyl as I was expecting), and the 
taste (um...what's this?...something I've never tasted in my ales..I 
guess it's..ah.. FRUITY...yes VERY FRUITY!).

I've used Wyeast #1056 exclusively until this batch.  I remember a 
warning from one of you to be ready for something really different when 
using #1968!  The spec sheet for #1968 refers to the taste as MILDLY 
fruity and malty.  The sensations as I drink this brew are: hops aroma, 
followed by immediate in-your-face fruitiness on the roof of the mouth, 
followed by hop bitterness at the back of the tongue. Hardly any malt 
flavors at all.  I'd run this beer by a beer tasting expert if I knew 
one that lived within 100 miles of me!

Questions: Is this what I should expect from 1968?  Since I've never 
tasted an authentic english bitter, and I live far away from anyone that
has (only Budweiser spoken here), I'm relying on Digest experts to say 
"relax and enjoy an authentic bitter" or, "Ritter you screwed up 
somewhere, nothing tastes THAT fruity!".  Is there a commercially 
available special bitter reflecting this level of frutiness that I can 
compare to? 

        Dan Ritter in Grangeville, Idaho
        102446.3717 at compuserve.com

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