HOMEBREW Digest #2027 Fri 03 May 1996

[Prev HBD] [Index] [Next HBD] [Back]

		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

  Re: New Digest Owners (rdg)
  Comments on Al's response to Woody / Homebrew Day--AUTUMN! (Robert Paolino)
  Jeff Jones: Fix your E-mail Address... ("Pat Babcock")
  Re. "Rob the janitor" (Matt_K)
  Decoction Mash (Fred Hardy)
  simple LABEL attachment/removal (Jan Luttner)
  Dry Ice (Adam Rich)
  Brewing Season ("Rich Byrnes")
  O-Rings (Jim Nasiatka-Wylde)
  Re: bottle cleaning ("Dave Higdon")
  Yikes! THe HBD is just PACKED! (Patrick Babcock - SLIP)
  HBD ownership change (U18183)
  Re: Decoction Mash (Spencer W Thomas)
  Skunke beer (again) (PAUL RYBAK)
  more summer brewing debate ("Tracy Aquilla")
  Re: dry ice (Spencer W Thomas)
  Re: HBD#2026 National Homebrew Day (Michael Lausin)
  I 'C' U 'C' Re Al "C's ("Olson, Greger J - CI/911-2")
  Re: Sale of Homebrew Digest (hollen)
  Muriatic acid as a cleaner. (Pre-installed User)
  Re: - Homebrew-Digest Moving Pains (Shawn Steele)
  Overkill (James Todd Hoopes)
  Unnecessary responses ("FINLEY, BARRY CURTIS")
  Re: RIMS problems (Jim Dipalma)

NOTE NEW HOMEBREW ADDRESS hpfcmgw! Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com (Articles are published in the order they are received.) Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc., to homebrew-request@ hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L at UA1VM.UA.EDU), then you MUST unsubscribe the same way! If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first. Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored. For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at alpha.rollanet.org ARCHIVES: An archive of previous issues of this digest, as well as other beer related information can be accessed via anonymous ftp at ftp.stanford.edu. Use ftp to log in as anonymous and give your full e-mail address as the password, look under the directory /pub/clubs/homebrew/beer directory. AFS users can find it under /afs/ir.stanford.edu/ftp/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer. If you do not have ftp capability you may access the files via e-mail using the ftpmail service at gatekeeper.dec.com. For information about this service, send an e-mail message to ftpmail at gatekeeper.dec.com with the word "help" (without the quotes) in the body of the message.
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 02 May 1996 16:13:49 -0600 From: rdg at hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com Subject: Re: New Digest Owners To all: I have received a few queries about the new digest owners, and there has been some mention in the digest about the Association of Brewers, so I wanted to clarify a few things. First, in case you don't know who they are, the Association of Brewers (AOB) is the organization that runs the Institute for Brewing Studies, the American Homebrewer's Association (AHA) and puts out Zymurgy. They are a non-profit organization whose goal is to provide services for brewers. Though they might not be properly called "non-commercial" please remember that they are non-profit. I have assurances from them they will maintain a "hands-off" policy with the Homebrew Digest, and you are free to discuss the same things that you usually do. Why did I decide to give it to the AOB? There were several reasons for doing so. My main concern was finding a stable and secure home for the digest, and I think the AOB is about as stable as it gets Individuals can come and go, change jobs or careers, and things like running a digest can fall between the cracks. Another factor is that the AOB is located in Boulder, Colorado, which is extremely close to its present home in Fort Collins, and I thought that this proximity would substantially ease the task of transferring the technology to its new home. AOB also has the resources to spend to improve digest services. For instance, the mailing list software needs to be updated to use one of the popular packages (ie, majordomo) because the administrative load has been getting excessive lately. I have also gotten quite a few messages from people thanking me for starting the Homebrew Digest and keeping it running for such a long time. Just for the record, the very first digest was mailed in October of 1986, nearly 10 years ago! It was sent initially to only a few people, but several dozen people asked for copies, and by the time the second issue was out the following month, there were 53 people on the mailing list. I might repost some of the early issues here in the next few days, just for your amusement at how primitive we were back then ;-) Some people have asked *why* the digest is being put under new management. The short answer is that I can no longer take care of it myself. I had been thinking about doing this for the last year or two, since my interest in brewing has fallen off quite a bit recently, and the digest does take up a bit of time. More immediately though, a new work assignment will take me to Sweden for most of June, and possible the Summer, and this will make management of the digest very difficult. So, there is some urgency right now to achieve the transfer of ownership as soon as possible. Any comments or suggestions are welcome, as always. Rob Gardner rdg at fc.hp.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 19:35:43 -0500 (CDT) From: Robert Paolino <rpaolino at execpc.com> Subject: Comments on Al's response to Woody / Homebrew Day--AUTUMN! I'd written a reply to Woody the Belgian barleywine guy, but the post was rejected for non-ASCII characters (those damn Smart Quotes on my newer word processing software). But the cc: to the brewer made it to its destination and it looks like others noticed a few of the things I addressed, so I didn't reposting in its entirety. I had been concerned that my response might have been a little harsh, but it looks like I toned it down a bit much compared to these other responses: The Unabrewer wrote: >Sorry Woody... you've got big problems. First of all, that 1.5 oz of >Chinook, assuming a 5-gallon batch size and a generous 30% utilization >(*before* accounting for the high-gravity wort) will give you only about >28 IBUs. That's probably about 1/4 of what you should have used. The >high-gravity of the wort means you only got a fraction of that 30%. (See above post for what I wrote) I agree it was WAY underhopped, but how did you get 28 IBUs--and that assuming 50% higher utilisation than I did (30% v. 20)%? Now I was surprised that my calculation came out as high as it did (still too low for a good barleywine), but there it was: My scribblings say roughly: (13.5% A * 1.5 ounces * 20% U ) / (5 gallons * 4/3), or approximately 20 AAU * 20 U * 3 - ------------------------ 20 cancel the 20s, you've got IBU = = 60 I could easily see dropping the U% to 15, which would bring it down to 45 (which I suggested in my post), but 28?? Al also writes: >Secondly, for such a high-gravity beer, a 250ml starter is 1/8th to 1/16th >of what you should have used. Al's right here. I recommended a litre in my post, because if he's starting from a Wyeast pack and making 250ml, he'd probably give up and go to dry yeast if he thought he had to step it up to 2 (or 4!) litres. Me? I use at least a pint of _yeast_ (not yeast and starter "beer"), but that's because I either visit a brewpub or use what I've built up from a recent brew (back when I had time to brew that frequently), so it's not a problem for me. Hell, I'd probably balk if I had to go from a Wyeast pack to four litres. A litre starter would have been a step in the right direction. Better a small (but significant) improvement than to discourage someone from doing it all. The Unabrewer continues with wise advice about cooler fermentation and aeration, although I was a rather more hopeful than Al about the alcohol tolerance of the yeast: >if your yeast get down to *1.065* in four weeks, you'll be blessed and >that's only 50% apparent attenuation. 75% apparent attenuation means >a FG of 1.033 which would require 13% alcohol tolerance (a feat even >for Champagne yeast). You may not get below 1.050 FG. My 1.120 Imperial >Stout stopped at 1.050. I brewed one almost as big as our friends Al and Woody, and got down to 1.028. Granted I had to repitch (more American Ale yeast, not Champagne yeast) at just under 1.040, but it got there. Had I used more yeast and aerated more initially, I might not have needed the repitching. And it sure didn't take six months. Also, I had natural carbonation without any problem. Obviously my experience doesn't guarantee that Woody (or Al) will have the same results, but it's certainly possible, and maybe I was trying to provide a little more encouragement to him than Al does to the beginners he turns away from his store in May ;-) (I'll defend Al on the homebrew day in a bit) But first, Jerry.... Jerry gave us a graphic description of his yeast starter. You may not need to go to such lengths, but it's the right idea. LOTS OF YEAST. The other way to do it is visit your local homebrewer-friendly micro or brewpub for yeast. >You probably shoulda used more hops. OK, a lot more hops. I ran this thru No question about that. >Tinseth's hop claculator and got somthing like 38 IBU's. It'll be malty, to Why are we getting IBU calculations all over the place? Have I made a stupid mistake that should have been obvious to me? At least Jerry's a little closer to where I came out. And I could see cutting down the utilisation to 15%, which would make for about 45 IBU, so 38 is in the same ballpark. * * * * * ANYWAY, now to defend Al on the Homebrew Day. What a bunch of nasty responses! Turning people away from the shop is a bit extreme, but he's well-meaning, even if it is at his financial expense. Yes, those of us who have the capacity to keep things cool (and have been brewing long enough to learn the little tricks) can brew year around. But those simply add complications for a beginner. So Al is right, imho, on the idea of moving the homebrew day to autumn if the intention is to promote the craft to newcomers. I can also see it, though, as a celebration to end a brewing season for those of us who _already_ brew, but Al's argument is more compelling. A few additional points, though, about the idea of a brewing season: 1. Even if I had the capacity (or desire to take the additional measures) to keep fermentation temperatures cooler in an 80F apartment, am I going to want to _brew_ in that same apartment? I enjoy warm weather, sure, but I don't want to be sweating over a stove. Some of you may be able to set up the Cajun Cooker in the backyard, but I don't have a backyard (or a propane burner), and I don't think my neighbours or building management would take too kindly to a mini-inferno out on the balcony. 2. Change and variety are good. I can play hockey all year, too, and many people join summer leagues. But when the university closes down the rink in May, I decide it's time to put the equipment away for a few months also. There are other things to do in the summer; so take a rest and enjoy other aspects of life. And let somebody else make the beer for you :-) Save the brewing for those winter weeks when you're inside (and not playing hockey or cross-country skiing.) 3. Finally, for Al and his (potential) customers. Let 'em brew, sell 'em the equipment. Yes, caution them that it will get better when it's cooler, but don't discourage them from that June-to-August brewing if that's when they want to get started. No, the beer won't be up to _our_ standards, but I bet _they'll_ enjoy it. It'll be better than the Buttwipers/Miller/Coors/Dog Style their friends are drinking, and they'll overlook the flaws anyway because of the magic of having brewed their own beer for the first time. It won't be _great_ (or maybe not even good) beer, but it'll be _their_ beer and they'll have plenty of time to learn how to make it better. Now go have a beer, Bob Paolino Madison rpaolino at earth.execpc.com You may now go back to your regularly-scheduled beer Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 22:11:43 +0500 From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock at oeonline.com> Subject: Jeff Jones: Fix your E-mail Address... Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager.... Sorry for the waste of bandwidth, but the digest has been a bit on the thin side, so I figger it can stand it. Page down if your name ain't Jeff Jones... PgDn +++ PgDn +++ PgDn +++ PgDn +++ PgDn +++ PgDn +++ PgDn JEFF JONES of CMCD-Folsom: Your submission to the Homebrew Flea Market has been rejected for the very same reason I have to let you know here: You have not completed setting up your e-mail account. <your at email.address.here> is a little difficult to send mail to, and just as difficult to reply to. Correct your account information, and resubmit your "ad". I think your items will go fairly quickly once people can reach you... PgUp +++ PgUp +++ PgUp +++ PgUp +++ PgUp +++ PgUp +++ PgUp Again, thanks for your patience, and the use of a wee bit o' bandwidth. I'll tip one in each of your honors (over the course of my lifetime, anyway!)... See ya! Pat Babcock in Canton, Michigan (Western Suburb of Detroit) pbabcock at oeonline.com URL: http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/ Visit the HomeBrew Flea Market via my homepage! URL: http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/ Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 08:07:08 est From: Matt_K at ceo.sts-systems.ca Subject: Re. "Rob the janitor" In digest #2024 Mike Spinelli writes: >I don't have a clue on what goes in to running the HBD, but I'd just >like to thank Rob for making it work. I whole heartedly agree. By looking after this Digest Rob has probably done more for homebrewing than any (most) of us can take credit for. Thank's Rob. Matt in Montreal Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 08:19:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Fred Hardy <fcmbh at access.digex.net> Subject: Decoction Mash Wade asked for some guidance in appropriate recipes for decoction mashing. On one level decoction mashing can be viewed as simply a method of converting starches to fermentable sugars. Viewed this way, decoction mashing is appropriate for any beer. There are many beers that benefit from the Maillard reaction which occurs during the boil of the decocted portion. The melanoidins formed during the reaction impart a toasty, malty flavor and aroma to the brew. Some beers benefit more than others. As a rule of thumb (remember, rule of thumb is abbreviated "ROT") British beers do not derive much benefit from decoction; Continental styles do (Pilsner, alt, kolsch, German lagers and Bavarian weizens). The only indigenous American style where I think decoction works well is California common (steam). Cheers, Fred ============================================================================== We must invent the future, else it will | <Fred Hardy> happen to us and we will not like it. | [Stafford Beer, "Platform for Change"] | email: fcmbh at access.digex.net ============================================================================== Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 02 May 1996 08:15:50 -0400 From: Jan Luttner <jluttner at scoot.netis.com> Subject: simple LABEL attachment/removal Hello fellow brewsters/brewers: Discussions appear here every so often about label attachment and label creation (even old label removal). First of all, while my time is better spent producing a fine brew than a fine label (yes, it's still drinkable without a label), there are times when a great presentation can be important (we might actually want to share some of our brews with friends ;-) or enter a contest). Since we drink with our eyes first, initial appearance should be inviting. However you decide you'll create those labels we all need to adhere them to the bottles. Like many of you I've tried a variety of attachment methods, everything from milk (simple but messy) to self-adhesive labels (expensive and tougher to remove). I don't believe in buying those more expensive static-cling type labels. Save your $$$ for brewing supplies. The absolutely *simplest method* is to use a GLUE STICK. A common and inexpensive one available in most stores, esp. office supply stores, is called a UHU STIC (no, I'm not affiliated in any way with this product...too bad). It is completely water soluable. It's labeled as non-toxic. It even washes out of clothing (needed only if the kids are helping). For the little you'd use, it is very economical. There's no need to buy expensive papers of any type (unless you want to). I rub a tad (smallest amount I can) along the right and left edges. Of course, you could go all out and cover the entire label...I just don't see why you'd need to. I've easily removed labels from bottles stored like this since last fall. To remove, simply tear off the majority of the label. This leaves the small edges where you've run the glue line. Under warm running water (that's all!) I use my thumb to rub off the old glue. It's that simple! None of this "soaking for a few hours" stuff for me! Never again do I want to soak off a homemade label...bad enough I have to soak those commercial labels (glad that's a one time deal). TRY IT....you'll definitely like it. Kiss those bottle soaking blues good-bye. With all this time on your hands, shouldn't you be brewing? Jan Luttner NH Brewster Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 02 May 1996 07:22:17 -0500 From: rich.adam at Mayo.EDU (Adam Rich) Subject: Dry Ice Hi, Isn't using dry ice to cool wort going a little too far? I think that it may be dangerous too. Dry ice bubbles like crazy when put into water, right? Imagine what it might do to boiling-hot sticky wort! The CO2 given off might splatter your kitchen walls, ceiling, garage floor..... and You! It really doesn't seem worth it. Moreover, I recall someone posting some time ago about the heat capacity if dry ice. I recall that it was low so a very large amount would be neccesary to cool 5-10 gallons of wort. I think that it is a lousy idea. All these people using immersion or counter-flow chillers are probably not wrong! just my two cents, Adam Rich ======================================================= Adam Rich, PhD Dept. of Physiology and Biophysics richa at mayo.edu (lab) or arich at millcomm.com (home) The Improved HomePage: http://www.millcomm.com/~arich/index.html ======================================================= Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 02 May 1996 08:32:25 EDT From: "Rich Byrnes" <rbyrnes2.ford at e-mail.com> Subject: Brewing Season ************************************************* Caution, as May 4th approaches, please discontinue reading the HBD, there can be no information worth reading after may 4th. Heck, even our esteemed janitor Rob Gardner is quitting for the summer, possibly forever, he may not come back in the fall! I was going to ask a brilliant witty question, but forget it, I wont be able to brew after this weekend sigghhhhhhhhh................................ ***************************************************** With apologies to Al, did I stir up a can of worms or what? ;-) Regards,_Rich Byrnes Jr Fermental Order of Renaissance Draughtsmen \\\|/// phone #(313)323-2613, fax #390-4520_______o000_(.) (.)_000o rbyrnes2.ford at e-mail.com (_) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 02 May 1996 07:35:05 -0500 From: Jim Nasiatka-Wylde <Jwylde at interaccess.com> Subject: O-Rings >Way back when, Eric Peters <epeters at harris.com> said: > >I have some ten gallon soda syrup kegs (ball-lock) and I am >having trouble finding replacement o-rings for the lids. Can >any of you offer any advice on good hunting grounds for o-rings? W.W.Grainger or McMaster Carr would be good places for bulk, or check out the local Ace Hardware, Sears, or the local auto parts store. You'll pay a bit more for the smaller packages of them though. >The o-rings are a smaller diameter than what is used for the >typical 5 gallon keg, and appear to be fatter and spongier. >McMaster-Carr has a pretty good selection of o-rings, but I'm >not sure what material would be best (buna-n, viton, etc.) If you can match the diameters, then you sholdn't have any problems with the materials. Either Buna-N or Viton are pretty standard, and are what's in standard kegs. Make sure that they are clean before using them. If you really wanna get exotic, try finding PTFE or Gore-Tex o-rings. Of course you'll be paying $3 per ring... The 'squishyness' either means that the O-ring is saturated and falling apart, or it has a softer durometer reading (material hardness - the higher the number, the harder or less compressable it is) Most o-rings you'll get in the stores are about 60-80 durometer. Jim All the money in the world is no match for hard work and ingenuity... ____ \ / Nothing is so strong as Gentleness; JWylde at interaccess.com \/ nothing so gentle as real strength Nasiatka at anl.gov Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 08:47:58 EST From: "Dave Higdon" <DAVEH at qesrv1.bwi.wec.com> Subject: Re: bottle cleaning try soaking them in a bleach/ water solution. About 1 or 2 capfulls per 5 gallons of water Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 08:49:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Patrick Babcock - SLIP <pbabcock at mail.oeonline.com> Subject: Yikes! THe HBD is just PACKED! Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager... Wow! Lot's of varying opinions out there on this "dumb thread". Much of which I, well, er, I can concede the points. Yeah, a brewer can be faced with some additional challenges in the summer, and perhaps *SOME* might not be able to think around the corners, if you know what I mean. I really don't like the thought of anyone turning a potential brewer away, though, since that first batch is typically a kit-brewed-on-the-stove and fermented in the basement/closet/old chevy. I can still remember some of my first batches, made through pretty primitive (by today's standards) means. I still say it ain't that big of a deal - but, apparently, that's just me. Now, categorically: Tracy: Yup - light hearted. Your points are, however, contrary to Al's. He contends brewing shouldn't be done in the summer (for newbies) due to the additional challenges. Your point (apparently) is that brewing shouldn't be done in the summer because of all the other fun one should be having. Or did I misread your post? Scott: "Motor City Madman"? I prefer the more "PC" label of "Motor City Sanity-Deficient Person". Calm for me is an altered state, slander was not intended, um, let's see... ... Oh! And a thread can only be as dumb as those participating in it! That's you 'n me, Kid! Jim: Yup, 'tis true. I think we should have a few of'em, though. And I think they should all be on Mondays so I can have three-day weekends for them... Schmidling: Hi, Jack! Glad to see you on the web! (Yeah, I know - you're not in this...) Kelly: Good point! Hadn't thought in those terms. Hey! Where's the Brewery? You'd think those guys'd jump on it. (Drat! Another topic slipped in!) Curt: Yeah. I think that was addressed. The water bath does work, though, and is a good suggestion to pass on to the newbies. Your pale ale probably wouldn't have turned to Pledge had you used it... Ken: See Al's post. It probably IS Charlie's Birthday! Phillip: Thermodynamics and heat transfer are hardly voodoo and black magic. Well, maybe if you don't understand them. I take the geek thing as a compliment - Remember: geeks are a natural resource! Only YOU can prevent ruined batches! I find most who are not destined for geek-dom tend towards "the bag" or "the machine" for that first batch. Most - not all. Al: Very cogent response. That's why I respect you. Had I the cash, I'd be in the same racket. 'Tis true, sir! I envy you... Well, well, well! Would seem a thread has popped up where none was expected! Cool! (Or not cool, I guess, would be more appropriate) See ya! Pat "The Motor City Sanity-Deficient Person" Babcock "Get off your too-warm butt and make wit da brewing!" (apologies to Scott Abene) Visit the Homebrew Flea Market via http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock (C)Copyright 1996 Cree-ee-py Boy Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 08:24:21 CDT From: <U18183 at UICVM.CC.UIC.EDU> "Paul Sovcik" Subject: HBD ownership change > On a related note, are any of you as scared as I am about the AHA taking > over the HBD? Yes. I really am a bit nervous about this. As a HBD reader for the last six years or so, I have seen quite a bit of Zymurgy and AHA bashing in this forum. I wonder if the AHA will tolerate this freedom of expression - I certainly hope so. Hopefully, they will allow the HBD to remain a self-regulated digest, and minimize AOB self-promotion. -Paul PJS at uic.edu Paul Sovcik, Western Springs, IL Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 02 May 1996 10:14:51 -0400 From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu> Subject: Re: Decoction Mash (Bohemian) Pilsner and Helles would be good choices. Try this one: Pils for 5 gallons 9.5 lbs 2-row (preferably German Pilsner malt) .5 lb Cara-Pils (preferably DWC Belgian) Lotsa hops (Saaz preferred) (OK, you want quantities? Enough bittering hops to make about 40IBUs (about 10 HBUs), an ounce of flavor hops at 20 minutes, and an ounce of aroma hops at the end of the boil.) Mash-in to 40C with 6 quarts of water at about 44C (YMMV). THis makes a stiff but manageable mash, and leaves you with some room to step with boiling water additions. Hold 20 minutes. Step to 60C with 7 quarts of boiling water (again, YMMV, this quantity works for me.) Hold 15 minutes, then take about 1/2 the mash as a decoction (mostly grains, with enough water to make a "porridge".) Heat the decoction to 70C (with stirring) and hold 15 minutes (it should become noticeably clearer ("darker") during this period). Heat decoction to boiling, with frequent stirring, boil 30 minutes, stirring enough to keep it from sticking. Return the decoction gradually to the main mash, stirring and checking the temperature, to bring the main mash to 70C. If there's any decoction left over, let it cool to 70C, then return to the main mash. Hold the mash at 70C until starch conversion has completed (could take another 30 minutes, shouldn't take much longer than that). If you wish, you can mash out by taking a liquid decoction of about 1/3 the mash volume, bringing it to a boil, and adding back to raise the temperature to about 77C. Sparge 6.5-7 gallons. Total boil time should be about 90 minutes, with bittering hops added at 60 minutes from the end, flavor hops at 20, and aroma hops at the end. Chill to 50F and pitch lager yeast from a starter, also at 50F (starter should be at least a quart, bigger is better -- let it ferment out, and pitch just the slurry, not all the "beer"). For a quick-and-dirty dunkel, substitute Munich malt for about 1/2 of the 2-row, drop the hopping level to 25 IBUs, and cut down on the flavor and aroma hops (and probably switch to Hallertauer or Tettnang.) =Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI (spencer at umich.edu) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 02 May 1996 09:23:27 From: PERSAND at gnn.com (PAUL RYBAK) Subject: Skunke beer (again) Well, I'm about to beat a dead horse! When I asked if I dare take a pitcher of lager out to my pool in <shudder> BROAD DAYLIGHT I was advised that unless the beer was in an opaque pitcher and served in a ceramic stein, my beer would be SKUNKED! I really do thank the writer for the reply and I'm not making fun of the response. BUT, what about the liters of Octoberfest beers served in Germany? Are they drinking hopelessly skunked beer; do they really like it; do they know what unskunked beer tastes like, or are taste buds killed after several liters?---SORRY, just a thought. :-) On a lighter (liter) note, and inexpensive pH meter may be purchased from Edmund Scientific. It's catalogue no. 35558, costs about $50 +freight. Appears to be quite accurate and easier than pH papers. Phone: 609-573-6250. No affilliation etc.,etc. Brewing in Morris, IL since 1990 Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 May 96 10:44:48 CDT From: "Tracy Aquilla" <aquilla at salus.med.uvm.edu> Subject: more summer brewing debate In Digest #2026: korz at pubs.ih.att.com (Algis R Korzonas) wrote: >I believe I should have made myself more clear... the issue is airborne >nasties. > >In the fall, winter and early spring, I can simply shake the carboy or >rely on the natural aeration of pouring the cooled wort through a funnel >to aerate the wort. In the late spring and all summer long, I have >problems with wild yeast. I have been able to handle the wild yeast problem >with a filtered aeration system, but how do I convince a new brewer that >he/she needs this $40 aeration system (that isn't even mentioned in the >brewing book that I include in the kit I sell) along with the $50 equipment >kit? If you pitch an adequate starter, wild yeast shouldn't be a problem. While I realize that some wild yeasts are super-attenuative, I've never encountered any of these critters in over 15 years of brewing year round (both coasts, far north and south). I brewed some great ales (and lagers) last summer and boiled/chilled them all outside. BUT, I think October would be a much better time for Nat'l Homebrew Day. Also, one should be able to set up a complete aeration system for about $10-12. Go to a pet store, buy an $8 pump, a few feet of tubing and a couple of disposable diffusers. If you're anal about sanitation, you can get a 0.45 or 0.22 micron filter, but I don't think that would increase the price to $40, even if you don't have 'lab connections' like some of us. Tracy Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 02 May 1996 10:59:23 -0400 From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu> Subject: Re: dry ice Bryan> For those with access, [dry ice] Bryan> could be a cheaper method of cooling than a wort chiller, Bryan> which is pretty cheap itself. Ok, let's do some math. To cool 1 kg of water from 100C to 20C requires 80*4.19 = 335 Kj of heat extracted. Dry Ice has a heat of fusion of 9kj/mol (at its "melting point" of -57C). Thus, it would require 335 / 9 = 37.2 moles of dry ice to cool 1kg of water. Multiplying by 44g/mole gives 1.6kg of dry ice per 1kg of water. To cool a 5 gallon batch would require 19*1.6 = 31kg = 68lb of dry ice. I don't think that 68lb of dry ice is very cheap. *** Enter Technodweeb mode: I made some simplifying assumptions above. These include * perfect heat transfer to the water. * The heat capacity of gaseous CO2 is negligible. * the dry ice is at its "melting" point. If it's colder, it has, as I recall, a heat capacity 1/2 that of water. The effect is minor. 1.6kg of dry ice at, say -67C, will, in effect, drop the temperature of 1kg of water from 100C to 92C before it starts vaporizing. Thus, the total amount of dry ice required is reduced by about 10%. (At least one lab I know keeps its dry ice in a -70C freezer.) =Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI (spencer at umich.edu) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 May 96 09:13:55 MDT From: mel0083 at mcdata.com (Michael Lausin) Subject: Re: HBD#2026 National Homebrew Day All of this talk about brewing in the summer, etc. Excuse me, but National Homebrew Day is on the 4th of May. If I remember correctly from grade school, etc. summer doesn't start until June 21/22. That's a whole month and a half away! Enough time to brew, ferment, bottle, and drink a whole batch of beer. Or 2. Besides, in most areas of the country (US of A) it doesn't get really hot until July or August and by that time most people (if they're anything like me) already have another batch going before the last batch runs out. So if you time it right you can skip the really hot times of the year. As for summer being a time for the outdoors. Doesn't it ever rain in your part of the country? Save brewing for a rainy day [unless of course you brew outside. But what the heck, you can always put an umbrella over the brew pot... :) ] Better than sitting around and watching the tube! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ michael at mcdata.com Michael Lausin McDATA Corp. Broomfield, Co 303-460-4107 http://www.mcdata.com/~mel0083/brewing.html The opinions expressed are mine, 'cause I'm the one pushing the keys! Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 02 May 96 08:24:00 PDT From: "Olson, Greger J - CI/911-2" <gjolson at bpa.gov> Subject: I 'C' U 'C' Re Al "C's >#include <stdio.h> >main() >{ >for(i=0;i<10;i++) > printf("I'm not in this for the money.\n"); >} > >Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL >korz at pubs.att.com I C your point Al, but are you suffering from Java envy? Perhaps you could write a HBD reader with an embedded interpretive language (Stout?) that would do automatic all-grain/extract conversions & IBU calculations whenever it parses a recipe. ;-) _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_- _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_- Cobol. It is the language of the Living Dead, a decrepit tool that inhabits a hoary technological netherworld. At the heels of this demon follow its minions, Lost Information Systems Souls who drone mindlessly to pollute American enterprise with billions and billions of wretched, fetid lines of code. COMPUTERWORLD 4/25/94. Mindlessly droning in Portland, OR _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_- _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_- Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 May 96 08:23:34 PDT From: hollen at vigra.com Subject: Re: Sale of Homebrew Digest >>>>> "Kelly" == Kelly Jones <kejones at ptdcs2.intel.com> writes: Kelly> Rob wrote: >> This is to let you all know that it is likely that the Association of >> Brewers will be taking over Kelly> Does anyone else find this extremely distressing? Although I Kelly> appreciate all of Rob's effort over the years, and can Kelly> certainly understand if he or his provider can no longer Kelly> continue to support the HBD, would it be possible to hold out Kelly> until we can find a noncommercial, unbiased sponsor? Kelly> Although many fine things can no doubt be said about the AoB, Kelly> they are also an entity which is directly or indirectly Kelly> involved in making money from nearly every aspect of brewing Kelly> and homebrewing. I totally agree with Kelly. From all the wrangling that has gone on with the AHA backing out of the BJCP support, I certainly don't trust them to be in charge of a fine independent effort like the HBD. dion - -- Dion Hollenbeck (619)597-7080x164 Email: hollen at vigra.com Sr. Software Engineer - Vigra Div. of Visicom Labs San Diego, California Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 02 May 1996 11:27:21 EDT From: "FINLEY, BARRY CURTIS" <BFINLEY at MUSIC.CC.UGA.EDU> Subject: Dry Ice Since quite a few people have been posting about the use of dry ice, I thought I would jump into the mix. First of all, I have been curious about using dry ice to cool the wort for quite some time. I've read the posts about how dry ice has bacteria and some oil and some other nasty things in it, but when it was proposed that it could be used to cool 15 gal of wort, all of the responding posts were negative dry ice. I understand that putting the dry ice into the wort could possibly cause some problems, but has anyone else thought of other ways that the ice could be used without actually putting it dierctly into the wort. What would be wrong with putting large chunks of the dry ice into sanitized freezer bags. Hey, they make some pretty large bags, and if this wouldn't satisfy your need for surface area you could put into a five gallon trash bag. Yet another idea. Currently, I place my pot into a sink and pack ice (regular) around it. Then I run a little H20 to make an ice bath. It works somewhat decent, but wouldn't it work 100 times better if it were dry ice that was surrounding my pot. I feel that all of the above would be cheap, effective was of cooling even large amounts of wort. If someone has already tried these methods to no avail, please correct me before I brew again. If not, I'll let everyone know how good (or bad) everything works out. Barry C. Finley Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 08:01:56 -0000 From: Pre-installed User <dimke at montana.campus.mci.net> Subject: Muriatic acid as a cleaner. In HBD 2026 Duffy Toler writes.=20 >The bottles are covered with a white, rough, scaly=20 >film. I have tried soaking, scrubbing, TSP, etc. to clean them with = little=20 >luck. I was thinking of soaking them in some acidic solution. I have = some=20 >Muriatic acid for cleaning bricks, would it be a really bad idea to = make a=20 >weak solution with this to soak the bottles? or how about white = vinegar=20 >instead? > >Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated! > >Duffy Toler Muriatic acid is HCl (Hydrochloric acid ) and typically is about 31% by = weight or 10 molar. I have found when working in the lab (yes I am a = chemist as well as a avid homebrewer) that .1M to.5M HCl soak tends to = clean out my hard water deposits on my glassware. So to mix add 1part = muriatic acid and 50 to 100 parts water. I would soak overnight. As = for health use caution when diluting the acid. Remember acid into water = not the other way around. Glasses and gloves are a must as you probably = already know. Also, note that .1M HCl will eat clothing ever so slowly. = Spill ignore wash in a week and have a nice hole. But the rinse and = should leave your bottles quite clean. If you are at all worried give a = rinse in NaHCO3 solution ( sodium bicarbonate ) also found in your = kitchen as baking soda. Vinegar is acetic acid in about 1-3% a weak = acid in low concentration. I have had very little luck using this to = clean things, especially minerals. =20 Brew on. Mark Dimke <Dimke at montana.campus.mci.net> Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 09:46:27 -0600 From: Shawn Steele <shawn at aob.org> Subject: Re: - Homebrew-Digest Moving Pains > Rob wrote: > > > This is to let you all know that it is likely that the Association > > of Brewers will be taking over There were a few comments along the lines of: > I would hate to see this become a forum where members feel hesitant > to discuss their thoughts on Charlie, the AoB, the GABF, Zymurgy, > Brewer's Publications, the AHA, contests, bottle caps, etc. for fear > of censorship and/or loss of sponsorship. We already read the digest :) We WILL NOT censor or moderate the Digest at its new home. I personally thought that it would be nice to offer the digest a home which could be permanent and not subject to the change of anyone's job, access provider or whatever, and asked the AOB/AHA if they would object to using their computers for this purpose. Rob & I both expected there to be some concern on the digest and I hope that I have alleviated your fears. Rob impressed on me the need to keep the digest continuing in the same fashion as it has been and I & the AHA have agreed. As a final note, please give it a few months and if the digest members feel that it isn't working for them, we will willingly give it to some other party who has the appropriate resources. I am working hard with Rob to make sure that nothing changes and that the Digest continues as it has. - shawn Shawn Steele Webmaster Information Systems Administrator Association of Brewers (303) 447-0816 x 118 (voice) 736 Pearl Street (303) 447-2825 (fax) PO Box 1679 shawn at aob.org (e-mail) Boulder, CO 80306-1679 info at aob.org (aob info) U.S.A. http://www.aob.org/aob (web) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 23:28:02 -0500 From: Hoopes at bscr.uga.edu (James Todd Hoopes) Subject: Overkill Enough about the brewing season thing. To each his own ********************************************************************* Do unto others.. for given a reversal of situation they would surely do it unto you. J. Todd Hoopes <Hoopes at bscr.uga.edu> Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 02 May 1996 12:08:27 EDT From: "FINLEY, BARRY CURTIS" <BFINLEY at MUSIC.CC.UGA.EDU> Subject: Unnecessary responses I don't want to be acting like I'm holier tahn thou, but I read a post that really pissed me off. Someone asked for a receipe that would give them a brew similar to Coors. Hey, I have no problem with this, I happen to drink Coors lite when I don't have any homebrew around. What made me mad was the response of some unknow coward. This person didn't even have the balls to sign his or her name to their response. They gave some stupid ass receipe like water, dog, bucket, bowl. They said to collect urine and prime with corn sugar before bottling. Hey, just because you don't like this type of beer gives you no right to compare it to dog urine. My understanding is that we are all adults, we should act like it. This means that if you wouldn't say it to their face, then don't say it at all. I have a feeling that if this wise ass went into some of the bars that I frequent, and told someboby in so many words that they were drinking dog piss, then he would be carried out on a stretch (if he were carried out at all). If you have no helpful hints, or bits of advise to give to someone, then don't respond at all. We all share a common intrest, there is no need to catagorize into individual groups based on the type of beer we enjoy drinking. And there is definately no excuse to cut down someone because you don't drink what they drink. So, I'll shut up until I need some helpful advise, or can give some myself. Damn, this Coors is great! Barry C. Finley Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 May 96 12:24:55 EDT From: dipalma at sky.com (Jim Dipalma) Subject: Re: RIMS problems Hi All, In HBD #2026, Ron Moucka writes: >I've >noticed some talk about RIMS oversparging, and I wondered if I >could get some help with a problem I'm having with my pseudo >RIMS. I've only done about 5 or 6 batches with it, but my >extraction seems to be extremely poor. Averages around 23 to 25 >instead of my usual 27 to 29 with my old system. Never have hit >the 30's. I recirculate the mash for about half the mash time. >Hitting the right temps don't seem to be a problem. Last batch I >noticed the mash seemed unusually acidic, ~4.7. Ron, I don't think the problem is oversparging, or your RIMS equipment. At 4.7, the pH of your mash is way too low. The optimal pH range for amylase enzyme activity is roughly 5.2 - 5.4. In addition to low extraction, you would likely see sluggish conversion as well. My guess would be that it's a water chemistry problem, though it's very difficult to say so definitively without more details of your mash-in procedure. Are you adding gypsum, dark malts, or anything else to your mash?? When are you taking the measurement, before or after starting recirculation?? If you are simply mixing the base malt and water, then measuring the pH before starting the recirculation and getting a pH of 4.7, I'd say a little calcium carbonate may be in order. Please post some additional details. >I'm not getting a very good cold break, despite the fact that I'm >cooling with an imersion chiller as I always have. As the brewing process progresses, the wort becomes more acidic. Let's say your mash was 5.2 - 5.4, and you acidified your sparge water to about 5.8. The resulting wort should be about 5.6 - 5.8 going into the boiler. During the boil, as alpha acids are extracted from the hops, the pH drops further. At the conclusion of the boil, the pH should be roughly 5.0. If your mash was at 4.7, I think it's likely the wort delivered to the boiler was already under 5.0. Poor break formation is one symptom of overacidified wort (source: DeClerck (sp?), Miller). >The >fermentations have been wierd too. Overacidifaction can also result in sluggish yeast performance. A good starting pH for beer yeast is about 5.0, I think (Tracy??). If the wort pH was under 5.0 when you started the boil, it's would have been considerably lower than 5.0 when the yeast was pitched. Since pH drops even further during fermentation, it may be getting to a point during fermentation where yeast performance is adversely affected. Every problem you've cited, low extraction, poor break formation, strange yeast performance can be attributed to poor pH control. I honestly feel that's what you need to look at to solve these problems. Please post some details of your mash-in procedure, include a water analysis if possible, let's see if we can nail this down for you. Cheers, Jim dipalma at sky.com Return to table of contents