---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Glass houses/technical errors ("Manning Martin MP")
  Bucket label removal (Michael_Evans)
  Nat'l Homebrewing day revisited ("Bryan L. Gros")
  re: How to attach labels? / Fruit Concentrates / Plaid-tosis? (Greg Potts)
  Refrigerator Control (KennyEddy)
  ATTACHING HOMEBREW LABELS (Eric & Carolyn Metzler)
  RE: Woody and Al (second failed post, grrr) (fwd) (Robert Paolino)
   ("MK3052")
  cleaning corny kegs (Moncsko)
  Re: Sale of Homebrew Digest (Jeff Schroeder)
  Re: Nat'l Homebrewing day revisited (Scott Abene)
  Stale Grains?? (Larry Davids)
  Muriatic Acid (Jim Nasiatka-Wylde)
  Decoction mashing// Coors (Adam Rich)
  JSP Web page (Jack Schmidling)
  Thanks (Bill Rust)
  CO2, CP Fillers (Todd Kirby)
  digest ownership change ("Tracy Aquilla")
  Re: O-Rings (hollen)
  Dry Ice, Coors, etc. ("Huyck, Randy")
  Beer Labels ("Huyck, Randy")
  Homebrew Day (Jeff Frane)
  Yeast Gene Map Completed (Bill Ridgely FTS 827-1391)
  Re: AoB taking over (Kelly Jones)
  Sankey Fermenter? ("Kenneth D. Joseph")
  SS Tubing, Couplings, Etc. ("Kenneth D. Joseph")
  Water Analysis ("Patrick E. Humphrey")
  Ranco Temperature Controller/HBD Sale (Hugh Graham)
  IBUs in hopped extract (Gregory King)
  Kudos for Rob/AoB OK with Me/Oxygen-Barrier containers (Jeff Hewit)


NOTE NEW HOMEBREW ADDRESS hpfcmgw!

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  "help" (without the quotes) in the body of the message.


----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: 2 May 1996 12:54:20 U
From: "Manning Martin MP" <manning_martin_mp at mcst.ae.ge.com>
Subject: Glass houses/technical errors

>Pat writes:

>Al, Al, Al! I'm truly surprised at you. The AHA probably thinks 
>you're a putz!

>>And Al replied:

>>If they ever admit they think of me this way, I'll quit as Technical
>>Editor and let Zymurgy slide back to the level of Brew Your Own.

Remember that thing about glass houses and throwing stones?  I would just
like to point out that whoever reviewed the recent Zymurgy article on
counterflow wort chillers left it so riddled with typo's, and computational
errors that it was nearly worthless.  The persons responsible for reviewing
that piece clearly did a great disservice to the authors, the magazine, and
to its readers. 

Al, if you are *single-handedly* holding up the technical quality control end
at Zymurgy, then it must be your fault, eh?  Quit sucking on your CO2 tank!
Your head is going to pop!  (but, where EVER did you find that
ball-lock-to-Putz adapter?? ;^)

MPM

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Date: 02 May 96 13:21:12 EDT
From: Michael_Evans at FRB-MAIN-2.CCMAIL.CompuServe.COM
Subject: Bucket label removal

A great way to get labels off bottles is by using ammonia.  I feel 
confident that it will eat the glue off the buckets just as well.

Mike
Dallas


Return to table of contents


Date-Warning: Date header was inserted by ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu
From: "Bryan L. Gros" <grosbl at ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu>
Subject: Nat'l Homebrewing day revisited

"the humble" Scott Abene writes (after pulling Pat and Al apart and 
making them shake hands and apologize):
>
>Okay everyone...
>
>When should National Homebrew Day be???
>
>Spring?  Summer? Fall? Winter?
>
>Let me know.

How about a compromise.  We'll have National HomeBREWing Day in May
and all make a fest beer which we'll lager in our spare refridgerators (or
in our cellars covered with a wet tshirt) and then break them out in September
for National Homebrew Drinking Day.  

How about it?  We've doubled the number of holidays and we've
honored the traditions of the past.  Should we send this to Karen Barela
or go straight to congress?!?

               - Bryan
                 grosbl at ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
                 Nashville, TN


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Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 15:12:06 +0100
From: gpotts at tube.com (Greg Potts)
Subject: re: How to attach labels? / Fruit Concentrates / Plaid-tosis?

>I've looked all over for info on how best to attach homemade labels to a
>bottle.
> I've been taping them on, but this is not attractive to say the least.
>Any ideas?
>
>Thanks
>
>Viktor

Hello All,
Thought this was a good opportunity to contribute my $.02

I was using spray-glue up until Christmas, which works well if used in a
ventilated space, and if you are careful about the overspray. I wouldn't
have gone out to buy the stuff, (it's pricey!), but since we had it at hand
, what the hey....

At Christmas-time I created a set of gift-boxes, labelled nicely by myself
and my five-year old son Matthew. We glues them on with mucillage glue, the
kind of stuff kindergarten kids use for cut-and-paste. It sets up quick,
doesn't smell up the house, and washes off with water when prepping bottles
for the next batch.

In other news....

Mixed up a batch of Cranbeery Ale according to the Cats meow archive. I did
a pleasant raspberry ale a while back, and the wife suggested I try some
more fruit beers...   Anyhow, I couldn't stomach the cost of 6 lbs of
frozen or (Gasp) fresh raspberrys here during an Ontario Winter, so I used
four cans of Welch's concentrate. It's a nice enough juice on its own,
mixed 3:1 with water. Beer tasted good with about a month of conditioning,
and will be popular come summer. I've gone with four small cans of Ocean
Spray cranberry juice concentrate this time, which adds up to about 1.5
lbs. (I had to use the scale in the produce section at the grocery. I've
never seen people weigh frozen juice before!) I mean, hey... it beats seeds
in the beer, clogged filters & wasted wort; and if you're using malt
extract, what's wrong with concentrated fruit?

Has anyone had any problems with concentrates? I have been careful to check
the ingredients, so that I'm just adding pure fruit, and not additional
preservatives...  It certainly seems like a cheaper way to get the fruit
(from October-June, anyway), with less cleanup!

Final Concern...

While brewing the aforementioned, my wife put on an Ashley McIsaac CD,
which could be clearly heard from the kitchen. He is clearly pictured as a
plaid-clad-lad on the CD cover, and at least one song has a bagpipe
accompanying his fiddle with gaelic lyrics. Is my beer ruined?


gpotts at tube.com
100 Mhz Power Computing 1Gb/16MB/4xCD   ***  1985 Honda 550 Nighthawk
Remember the two most important things in life:
      1. Don't tell everyone everything you know
      2. 



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Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 15:55:34 -0400
From: KennyEddy at aol.com
Subject: Refrigerator Control

To update my series on Electronic Thermometry, I have updated

ftp://users.aol.com/kennyeddy/thermometer/thermo.zip

to include plans for a refrigerator controller.  This was developed
independently of Greg Walz's (walzenbrew at aol.com) excellent design and is
quite different than his.  Both our designs have pro's and con's and either
should solve the problem equally as well; choose your approach based on
persoanl preference.  Greg's version might be a bit more expensive than mine
but then it adds the temperature display and more-flexible programming.  Mine
is perhaps simpler in that once it's set up and calibrated a simple twist of
the knob gives you 30F to 70F control -- temperature readout is available but
not necessary.  Component wiring difficulty is about the same in either case.

This should keep Marty Tippin busy for a while!! (Thanks for html'ing our
stuff, Marty!!)

Ken Schwartz
KennyEddy at aol.com

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Date: Wed, 01 May 1996 18:23:24 -0700
From: Eric & Carolyn Metzler <ewmetzler at telplus.net>
Subject: ATTACHING HOMEBREW LABELS

"VICTOR" nehrinv1 at smtpgate.mugu.navy.mil
Asked: How to attach labels?

I've been satisfied with a stripe of rubber cement or Elmer's Glue down 
the side of each label.  I remember reading that MILK works, and is easy 
to peel off for bottle re-use.

Eric W. Metzler in Enfield, ME



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Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 18:46:41 -0500 (CDT)
From: Robert Paolino <rpaolino at execpc.com>
Subject: RE: Woody and Al (second failed post, grrr) (fwd)

Subject: RE: Woody and Al (second failed post, grrr)
X-Sender: rpaolino at earth
To: Homebrew Digest <homebrew at hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com>
Subject: Try again on rejected post (RE: Woody's Belgian Barleywine)
Message-Id: <Pine.SOL.3.91.960501193400.15557A at earth>

Let's try this one again.  Damn "Smart Quotes"....
I've deleted some of the "non-essential" text to save space
(and I got rid of those damn Smart Quotes :-( )

Your article sent to homebrew is being rejected. The reason:
 -- Contains non-ascii characters --

You wrote:

Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 22:22:20 -0500 (CDT)
From: Robert Paolino <rpaolino at execpc.com>
X-Sender: rpaolino at earth
To: Homebrew Digest <homebrew at hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com>
Cc: woody at altair.stmarys-ca.edu
Subject: RE: A really big beer: anything special to think about?

Woody Weaver <woody at altair.stmarys-ca.edu> wrote:
[snip WW text and my response]

[snip]
but keep in mind that this batch may end up being one of those "learning
experiences."

1. It will probably be a rather malty/sweet beer (some might say pancake
syrup). Although I would be among the last people to recommend hopped
[snip]
such a high gravity.), I almost hope you used a hopped extract here,
because 1.5 ounces of Chinook isn't going to do it.  Not knowing the
gravity of your wort as it was boiling (partial boil or full volume?) or at
what time(s) you added hops, or whether you used loose flowers or pellets,
I can't be too specific about the IBUs, but it doesn't sound like a lot for
a beer that huge.  Hell, I've used more Columbus (comparable alpha) than
that in a sub-1.050 American Pale Ale (not all added at the beginning, of
course).  (Did I happen to mention that I'm a hophead? :-))  But let's just
say you were using pellets and had a utilisation of 20% (I wouldn't expect
any more with that kind of gravity.)  And let's say you boiled the whole
1.5 ounces for 60-90 minutes in a single addition at the beginning rather
than divided into multiple additions at different times.  At best, then,
you got 60 IBUs (based on a five gallon batch--you didn't specify).   It's
within range for a barley wine, but at the low end.  You might come out
okay, but surely you were not the least bit heavy-handed with the hops. 
AHA guideline is 1.090-1.120 OG and 50-100 IBUs.  You're just over the top
in gravity and near the bottom for IBUs.  (If utilisation was less than
20%, you're around 50 or even lower.)

2.  Belgian Abbey for a barleywine?  Hey, why not?  I like experimentation,
too.  I'll assume that you decided on other than a barleywine.  I won't get
into the timing of when to pitch, but there is some well-reasoned thought
that you should wait until _after_ "high krausen" (you may wish to refer to
the archives if you want to know more), but I don't think you're going to
get into much trouble on that count.  I'd think that 250ml is a little shy,
especially in such a big beer, but if you aerated well and things got 
[snip]

3.  [snip]
won't _need_ that long if fermentation is fairly vigourous.  I wouldn't
_plan_ to use the Champagne yeast, though.  I think of repitching (and some
will differ with me) as a last resort for a beer that hasn't attenuated
sufficiently rather than something you should plan to do.  Better to start
out with lots of good healthy yeast and lots of aeration than to repitch. 
Others, however, swear by repitching--but not necessarily with Champagne
[snip]
Repitch with the same strain, or even with something fairly neutral like an
American Ale yeast, if you're concerned about going overboard with the
phenolics from the Belgian yeast.  Use a healthy enough culture and it can
handle the alcohol.  For further reference, browse through some back issues
(1995?) of Brewing Techniques--I posed the question of repitching to Dave
Miller for his Q/A column.

4.  There may be some cause for concern about the Cascades put right in the
primary because of sanitation.  Those hops haven't been boiled and may
carry some nasties you don't want in there--especially before the yeast has
had a chance to out-compete them  If you're looking to dry hop, all the CO2
[snip]
Wait until secondary, where the hop character will remain, and the alcohol
will take care of any possible concern about sanitation.

5.  Don't worry about autolysis or oxidation.  Four weeks, especially in a
beer that huge, is not such a long time (provided that temperatures are
moderate).  Plastic gets a bad rap.  Take good care of it and it will take
care of your beer.  As for its permeability, I wouldn't use plastic for
something I wanted to age (in bulk) a long time, but a month just isn't
long enough to worry about  The only possible concern about oxidation (not
oxygenation) I would have here is in your repitching-- I'd  hesitate to
aerate the beer at that time, although (if I recall correctly) Dave Miller
didn't think it would be such a problem.  To me (and partly the reason I
asked the question) aerating or not aerating for repitching seemed to be a
Catch-22.  As for autolysis, there's been some discussion that autolysis
isn't quite the problem it's made out to be.  In fact the only time I ever
had that nasty "rubbery" flavour/odour display itself in one of my beers
was in a very low gravity beer in which I used an older starter that I
should have known better than to use.  I was a little suspect of the yeast
when I pitched it, but that's what I had ready. It was a learning
experience.  Even then, I doubt it would have been noticeable in a bigger
beer.  (This one was a 1.024 low alcohol beer--very, very delicate and
unforgiving of errors, to say the least.)

[snip]
you rack to secondary.  If you find that it is indeed too sweet, you may
want to boil some hops in a bit of wort and add it in an attempt to balance
the beer.  As a matter of principle, I'd prefer that to using bottled hop
oils.  Keep in mind, though, that I haven't had occasion to try either
method, and perhaps others can comment about adding bitterness after the
fact and how best to do it.

Now go have some hops,
Now go have a beer,


Bob Paolino                                     
Madison                                    rpaolino at earth.execpc.com
You may now go back to your regularly-scheduled beer




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Date:          Thu, 2 May 1996 19:07:10 EST
From: "MK3052" <MK3052CR at stem.indstate.edu>
Subject:       

    I am looking for a homemade recipe for wine.  If anyone has a 
good one you can email it to me at mk3052cr at stem.indstate.edu
               Thanks
                  Cindy
:>
:)
                  

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 20:53:15 -0400
From: Moncsko at aol.com
Subject: cleaning corny kegs 

In an HBD one or two ago, somebody asks:


"Anyone had particular success cleaning the stubborn adhesive the soft drink
companies seem to use on the OUTSIDE of used corny kegs? Does TSP do a
good job? I have several to do, TIA.

Regards,
Russ Hendry, R.O. Planning In Sunny Invermere BC"


Carefully scrape off the stickers with a razor blade, then use paint thinner,
mineral spirits, turpentine, or laquer thinner on a paper towel & rub the
glue on the outside. ( You could probably just as well use an old Mead that
came out bad or an eaqually bad Barlywine) Naturally be carefull not to
splash anything inside the keg. Then, wash the outside of the keg with a
small drop of dishwashing liquid on a sponge. Use alot of water. Again, make
sure nothing gets inside the keg. (except beer!)

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 18:16:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Schroeder <jms at rahul.net>
Subject: Re: Sale of Homebrew Digest

Kelly Jones <kejones at ptdcs2.intel.com> writes:
>Rob wrote:
>
>> This is to let you all know that it is likely that the Association of
>> Brewers will be taking over
>
>Does anyone else find this extremely distressing?  Although I
>appreciate all of Rob's effort over the years, and can certainly
>understand if he or his provider can no longer continue to support the
>HBD, would it be possible to hold out until we can find a
>noncommercial, unbiased sponsor?
>
>Although many fine things can no doubt be said about the AoB, they are
>also an entity which is directly or indirectly involved in making money
>from nearly every aspect of brewing and homebrewing.  I would hate to
>see this become a forum where members feel hesitant to discuss their
>thoughts on Charlie, the AoB, the GABF, Zymurgy, Brewer's Publications,
>the AHA, contests, bottle caps, etc. for fear of censorship and/or loss
>of sponsorship.
>
>I know Rob's needs play a large role in making this decision, but
>unless we are under critical time pressure, my vote is a resounding NO
>on AoB ownership of the digest, at least until other options are
>explored.

And korz at pubs.ih.att.com (Algis R Korzonas) writes:
>On a related note, are any of you as scared as I am about the AHA taking
>over the HBD?
>[...]

And I thought I was the only one who had reservations about this.  I hate
for this to sound like a "me too", but I have the same concerns that Kelly
expresses.  Maybe the AoB is agreeing to take a "hands-off" approach with
the Digest and just provide the service, but we're in trouble if they change
their minds about that in the future.

And to tie in another favorite thread:  Do all of our copyrighted posts
become the property of the AoB?  Will we see the AoB profiting from the ideas
discussed here?  (I realize that some poeple don't care about the copyright
issue, but some do.)

I doubt we could create a "new" HBD in the future if we become unhappy with
this one.  Maybe I'm being a bit too paranoid, but obviously I'm not the
only one.
- -- 
Jeff Schroeder      |   jms at rahul.net
San Jose, CA        |   PGP'ed mail preferred.  Finger for key.

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Date: Thu, 02 May 1996 21:40:15 -0500
From: Scott Abene <skotrat at wwa.com>
Subject: Re: Nat'l Homebrewing day revisited

Bryan, 

Being that Congress are probably much heavier drinkers than the AHA I vote
we hit them first...

Scott


At 12:32 PM 5/2/96 -0500, Bryan L. Gros wrote:
>"the humble" Scott Abene writes (after pulling Pat and Al apart and 
>making them shake hands and apologize):
>>
>>Okay everyone...
>>
>>When should National Homebrew Day be???
>>
>>Spring?  Summer? Fall? Winter?
>>
>>Let me know.
>
>How about a compromise.  We'll have National HomeBREWing Day in May
>and all make a fest beer which we'll lager in our spare refridgerators (or
>in our cellars covered with a wet tshirt) and then break them out in September
>for National Homebrew Drinking Day.  
>
>How about it?  We've doubled the number of holidays and we've
>honored the traditions of the past.  Should we send this to Karen Barela
>or go straight to congress?!?
>
>               - Bryan
>                 grosbl at ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
>                 Nashville, TN
>
>
>


####################################################
#                ThE-HoMe-BrEw-RaT		   #
#           Scott Abene <skotrat at wwa.com>	   #	
#           http://miso.wwa.com/~skotrat           #
# (Skotrats Official Homebrew "Beer Slut" Webpage) #
#                        OR                        #
#    http://miso.wwa.com/~skotrat/Brew-Rat-Chat/   #
#  (Skotrats Brew-Rat-Chat Homebrew Chat System)   #
#         "Get off your dead ass and brew"         #
####################################################


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Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 20:04:33 -0700
From: l.d. at ix.netcom.com (Larry Davids)
Subject: Stale Grains??

stale??? I have grain here for partial mash pilsner that has been 
cracked for about three weeks. Is it still usable, or do I have to  
deep six it??? All help gratefully accepted. Thanks in advance.
                                         Larry Davids, Glen Head, NY 

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Date: Thu, 02 May 1996 22:37:33 -0500
From: Jim Nasiatka-Wylde <Jwylde at interaccess.com>
Subject: Muriatic Acid

>
>Date: Wed, 01 May 96 17:56:00 PDT
>From: "Toler, Duffy L." <TOLERD at cdnet.cod.edu>
>Subject: bottle cleaning
>
>
>I have used the old sanitize your bottles in the dishwasher thing with great 
>success in the past.   Our new house with the really hard water gave me less 
>than acceptable results.  The bottles are covered with a white, rough, scaly 
>film. I have tried soaking, scrubbing, TSP, etc. to clean them with little 
>luck.  I was thinking of soaking them in some acidic solution.  I have some 
>Muriatic acid for cleaning bricks, would it be a really bad idea to make a 
>weak solution with this to soak the bottles?  or how about white vinegar 
>instead?

Hey Duffy!

I wouldn't use Muriatic acid if I were you.  It's a form of HCL and is rather
strong.  Try citric acid instead - you can get it at the grocery store as
coffee pot cleaner or as dishwasher cleaner.  Put it in your dishwasher with
the cleaned bottles (no soap or detergents!) and run it as per the directions 
on the box.  Your bottles will come out sparkly clean!  (This also works well
on glasses that are gunked up too)

Ciao!
Jamie

All the money in the world is no match for hard work and ingenuity...
 ____
 \  /   Nothing is so strong as Gentleness;       JWylde at interaccess.com
  \/       nothing so gentle as real strength           Nasiatka at anl.gov


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Date: Fri, 03 May 1996 07:53:39 -0500
From: rich.adam at Mayo.EDU (Adam Rich)
Subject: Decoction mashing// Coors

Hi Everyone,
        Just for, the record I think Coors sucks.  The great thing about the
HBD is that I don't need to worry about someone beating me up for expressing
my opinion.
        Now for a real live question: I though that boiling grains was bad.
When I started brewing the game plan was extract + specialty grains with the
strong advice: steep grains in water until a boil is reached and then Remove
The Grain.  Otherwise, I was told, I would get destruction of protein, from
boiling, tannin removal from the husk, and therefore cloudy and astringent beer.
        Well, this must be false if decoction mashing is such a godsend to
improved malt flavor and aroma for some beer styles!  Could someone explain
this to me?  
thanks, 
Adam

=======================================================
Adam Rich, PhD     Dept. of Physiology and Biophysics
richa at mayo.edu (lab)   or    arich at millcomm.com (home)
The Improved HomePage: http://www.millcomm.com/~arich/index.html 
=======================================================


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Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 09:03:59 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jack Schmidling <arf at maxx.mc.net>
Subject: JSP Web page


>From: korz at pubs.ih.att.com (Algis R Korzonas)

>If they ever admit they think of me this way, I'll quit as Technical
Editor and let Zymurgy slide back to the level of Brew Your Own.
(In the May 1996 issue, they claim you should not use light-brown bottles,
high fermentation temperatures cause increased diacetyl and acetaldehyde,
corn sugar causes vinegar-like flavours, an EasyMasher-type lauter tun
results in slow running lauters...

Sounds like you ought to send your resume to BYO.  If  I read you
correctly, the EM had a bad review in this mag.  As it would be the
first such bad review and the only homebrew magazine I neither
subscribe to nor advertise in, I wonder if there is any connection.

***
>On a related note, are any of you as scared as I am about the AHA taking
over the HBD?

You bet, ME!

>If I had the facilities, I would take over the HBD, but alas, I
don't, so I can't.

I don't either but I can pay for them if you want to run it.

 ...........................

Thanks to all for the feedback and suggestions on our Web page.
I would also like to praise Keith Royster for the great job he did 
designing and implementing it.


                           ***********************
Visit our Web page for product flyers and applications information.
                    http:/dezines.com/ at your.service/jsp/


js




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Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 10:22:30 -0400
From: Bill Rust <wrust at csc.com>
Subject: Thanks

Rob,

I have been reading and enjoying the digest for years now.  I must confess
that I take it somewhat for granted that I can show up for work or download
my mail at home and expect to see my *daily* HBD.  I run a small humor list
and edit/write a quarterly newletter.  I am always amazed that as these
become more popular, what a challenge it becomes to keep up with them
regularly.  It positively boggles the mind when you realize the Herculean
task it must be to maintain the HBD.  The Digest has been through a lot of
changes in the past 10 years and has held up surprizingly well.  It is a
classy listserver that provides a dizzying variety of creativity, humor, and
facinating technical information.

My hat is off to you.  You have contributed to the creation of a homebrewing
phenomenon, and hope you continue to be an active participant.  I'm sure I
can speak for everyone that enjoys the digest in saying...

Thank you!

 ------------------------------------------------------
 Bill Rust, Master Brewer | 
 Jack Pine Savage Brewery | Das bier trinken ist gutes
 Shiloh, IL        (NACE) | essen.      -IMMANUEL KANT
 ------------------------------------------------------


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Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 10:25:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: Todd Kirby <mkirby at bgsm.edu>
Subject: CO2, CP Fillers

It now seems well established that dry ice doesn't work well for chilling 
wort (thanks Spencer), so how about carbonating a PET bottle full of 
freshly racked homebrew? Would it be possible to add a weighed amount of 
dry ice without making a bomb? It would seem that if you know the 
temperature and the volume of liquid (beer) you're working with, there 
must be a way to determine how much dry ice to add to give a specific 
dissolved CO2 level, without risking blowing off one's limbs of course.

Also, could someone please review (in a little more detail) the use of 
the $3 counter pressure bottle filler? 

Todd K.


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Date: Fri, 3 May 96 11:18:04 CDT
From: "Tracy Aquilla" <aquilla at salus.med.uvm.edu>
Subject: digest ownership change

In Digest #2027:
<U18183 at UICVM.CC.UIC.EDU>  "Paul Sovcik" wrote:
>> On a related note, are any of you as scared as I am about the AHA taking
>> over the HBD?
>Yes.  I really am a bit nervous about this.  As a HBD reader for the
>last six years or so, I have seen quite a bit of Zymurgy and AHA bashing
>in this forum.  I wonder if the AHA will tolerate this freedom of
>expression -  I certainly hope so.   Hopefully, they will allow the HBD
>to remain a self-regulated digest, and minimize AOB self-promotion.

I too express misgivings about this, but I have a different worry. I'm
afraid new subscribers to the digest will not receive their first issue
until six months after they subscribe, and submissions will sit back-logged
for up to a year. ;-)
Tracy


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Date: Fri, 3 May 96 08:33:42 PDT
From: hollen at vigra.com
Subject: Re: O-Rings

>>>>> "Jim" == Jim Nasiatka-Wylde <Jwylde at interaccess.com> writes:
In article 
>> Way back when, Eric Peters <epeters at harris.com> said:
>> 
>> I have some ten gallon soda syrup kegs (ball-lock) and I am
>> having trouble finding replacement o-rings for the lids.  Can
>> any of you offer any advice on good hunting grounds for o-rings?

Jim> W.W.Grainger or McMaster Carr would be good places for bulk,
Jim> or check out the local Ace Hardware, Sears, or the local auto parts
Jim> store.  You'll pay a bit more for the smaller packages of them
Jim> though.

Be very careful in O-ring selection.  The typical O-rings available
through hardware stores, Grainger or McMaster Carr may be slightly a
different thickness.  In some cases, if they are too thin, they will
not seal right, or if they are too thick and not springy enough, they
will prevent closure.

dion

- -- 
Dion Hollenbeck (619)597-7080x164                 Email: hollen at vigra.com
Sr. Software Engineer - Vigra Div. of Visicom Labs  San Diego, California

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Date: Fri, 3 May 96 9:01:09 -0700
From: "Huyck, Randy" <rwh0303 at hub.doh.wa.gov>
Subject: Dry Ice, Coors, etc.

If you want to put dry ice in plastic bags (or any other closed 
container) and immerse it in your hot wort, all I can say is "Please 
don't."  If you feel like putting a tablespoon or so of solid CO2 in a 
heap of 5-gallon bags over and over again, and then deal with the bags 
expanding and shoving themselves out of the pot, splattering sticky wort 
all over your brewing area, knock yourself out.  This stuff expands far 
too much to contain it in anything sealed and use it for cooling.  As for 
it being cheap, if an earlier respondent's calculations were correct and 
you need 68lbs, then it would cost $25-$30 per batch (and that's figuring 
it at the rate we pay as a public agency, I don't know if private retail 
is higher or not).  Surrounding your pot in the sink with dry ice may 
work, but be careful--if you have a porcelain sink, the thermal shock may 
crack it.  I don't know if you'd want to add water--I really doubt 
it--you'd have water sputtering an spurting all over the place.  If you 
have a drain in the middle of your kitchen floor and clean by just hosing 
the place down, cool, but not practical for most of us.  (See earlier 
comment about CO2, plastic bags, and wort.)



As for Coors and satirical recipies, I have to stand by Mr. Finley.  
Cheap American beer can be (and has long been) a beautiful thing.  While 
I clearly prefer almost any homebrew or micro to Schmidt, I'm not going 
to down an IPA after mowing the lawn.  Many of us appreciate things that 
would be repugnant to many others, but remember--didn't an inherent 
attraction to megaswill brands prompt you to homebrew?  If it was 
completely unappealing, would you have wanted to do better?  Dog*&#t 
doesn't inspire ME to go create a better turd that would be better to 
step in...



Thanks for the bandwidth.  I needed to rant to someone...

_________________________________________________________________________

Just having a hat and a pair of boots doesn't make you a cowboy

_________________________________________________________________________

Randy Huyck

Immunization Program Warehouse

Phone:  (360) 664-8688

Fax:  (360) 664-2929

MS: 7845

Email:  RWH0303 at hub.doh.wa.gov



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Date: Fri, 3 May 96 9:23:01 -0700
From: "Huyck, Randy" <rwh0303 at hub.doh.wa.gov>
Subject: Beer Labels

Oh, yeah, need to waste more space.



I just dip my beer labels in milk (whole, 2%, skim, doesn't matter) and 
slap them on the bottle.  I gently pat-down any wrinkles or air bubbles 
with a damp towel.  The labels stay on very well and slide right off when 
wet.  Not good if you're going to ice down a bucket full of bottles for a 
wedding or other event, but for everyday, fridge-cooled or room-temp 
cerveza, it's the simplest method I've seen.



________________________________________________________________________

Just having a hat and a pair of boots doesn't make you a cowboy

_________________________________________________________________________

Randy Huyck

Immunization Program Warehouse

Phone:  (360) 664-8688

Fax:  (360) 664-2929

MS: 7845

Email:  RWH0303 at hub.doh.wa.gov



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Date: Fri, 03 May 1996 09:30:21 -0700
From: jfrane at teleport.com (Jeff Frane)
Subject: Homebrew Day

People can sure get stirred up about the weirdest stuff...

Yes, it is true that homebrewers can brew year-round, and
that commercial brewers do it all the time.  But Al Korzonas
is correct, I think, that it is not the best time to reach
new brewers.  Here in the Pacific NW we don't get a lot of really
hot days until well into the summer, and here in Portland a lot
of us have basements -- so we brew through the summer.

But it is a *fact* that business falls off sharply at homebrew
stores from about May through September; this is especially true
for new brewers -- their attention is engaged elsewhere.  This is
why I don't teach beginning brewing classes until the Fall: no
interest.

On the other hand, has anyone bothered to query the AHA as to
why May was chosen?  Could it be that someone in the gummint
offered that date and the AHA grabbed what they could?  Or could
it be that the date is largely irrelevant, and strictly
ornamental?  I mean, up until Al or whomever raised this issue,
how many of you could quote the date?  And how many of you
ever introduced someone to brewing because it what National
Homebrew Day?

Anyone really give a rip?

- --Jeff Frane


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Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 12:20:16 EST
From: Bill Ridgely FTS 827-1391 <RIDGELY at A1.CBER.FDA.GOV>
Subject: Yeast Gene Map Completed

For those of you with an interest in molecular biology, the 
following appeared in the 3 May morning press release from DHHS. 
Maybe some enterprising publisher will print a poster-size gene 
map of S. cerevisiae, suitable for hanging on your brewhouse 
wall:

	INTERNATIONAL TEAM COMPLETES DNA SEQUENCE OF YEAST
 
	An international consortium of scientists announced it 
        has finished spelling out the entire genetic code of a 
        species of yeast valuable to biologists and commonly used 
        by bakers and brewers.  The achievement required 
        determining the order of all 12,057,500 chemical subunits 
        contained in the yeast's nuclear DNA.  Containing some 
        6,000 genes arranged on 16 chromosomes, the single-celled 
        yeast is the most advanced organism yet to be sequenced.
 
	Having the entire yeast DNA sequence now paves the way 
        for scientists to study all the information encoded in 
        the organism's genetic blueprint. Yeast has already 
        provided biologists with a valuable resource for 
        determining the function of individual human genes 
        involved in medical problems, such as cancer, 
        neurological disorders, and skeletal disorders. Over the 
        next few years, scientists in the United States and 
        Europe will piece together a comprehensive look at how 
        all the genes in a cell function as an integrated system.

Bill Ridgely	US FDA/CBER    ridgely at a1.cber.fda.gov



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Date: Fri, 03 May 1996 10:49:55 -0700
From: Kelly Jones <kejones at ptdcs2.intel.com>
Subject: Re: AoB taking over

I wrote:

> > I would hate to see this become a forum where members feel hesitant
> > to discuss their thoughts on Charlie, the AoB, the GABF, Zymurgy,
> > Brewer's Publications, the AHA, contests, bottle caps, etc. for fear
> > of censorship and/or loss of sponsorship.

To which Shawn Steele, AoB replied:
> We already read the digest :) 

True, but there's a difference between participating in a forum that the
AoB _READS_, and a forum that the AoB owns, controls, and manages.

Let me step back for a second and say that if the Digest needs a new
home, and the AoB has volunteered to help, then I am genuinely grateful
for that. I am not slamming the AoB.  The HBD needed help, and they
graciously offered it.  And I'm reasonably sure their intentions are
honest.

However, I still don't think the AoB is the best group to sponsor us.
Despite its status as a 'non-profit' organization (and all that really
means is that you don't pay dividends to stockholders, it has nothing to
do with whether you make gobs of money or not), the AoB is deeply
entrenched in making money from almost every aspect of brewing and
homebrewing.  In case not everyone is aware, the AoB is the umbrella
organization than runs the Great American Beer Fest, craftbrewer
conventions, the AHA (which includes Zymurgy magazine, the AHA annual
convention, the National Homebrew competition, the mythical AHA judging
program, beer competition sanctioning, etc.), Brewer's Publications
(which publishes all of the Beer Style series, as well as dozens of
other books on brewing and homebrewing), and also wholesales and retails
miscellaneous beer/brewing supplies such as glassware and
oxygen-scavenging bottle caps.  The potential conflict of interest here
is too great.  I think the AoB already controls enough of our brewing
world, let's not give them one more piece of it.

Also, if the AoB sponsors the HBD, will that give them the right to use
it as a forum for announcements/advertisements?  It seems the AoB has a
convention/junket/book/whatever to announce just about every week (I
know, I'm on their mailing list).  If the answer is no, that's great.
But if they want to do this, who are we to argue?

And although Shawn has assured us that he/they will not attempt to
moderate the digest, it still may produce a situation where people feel
awkward discussing certain issues.  After all, if the AoB sponsors the
HBD, they can certainly decide to un-sponsor us if it ever gets to be
more trouble than it's worth.  And where will that leave us?  Looking
for a new sponsor again!! It's better to get a neutral aponsor in the
first place, IMO.  

Does anyone remember what happened to the BJCP a year ago?  This was a
judging program that was sponsored in part by the AHA.  Well,
apparently, the AHA decided that it had "philosophical" differences with
the BJCP, and decided to unceremoniously dump them on very short notice.
This left the BJCP, at least for a while, floundering.  Do we want this
to happen to us?

I am in an admittedly awkward position here in that, although I do not
approve of this transfer, I don't have the facilities myself to sponsor
the digest, so I can't offer a better solution.  However, I would
propose that we consider tranfer to the AoB an option of last resort,
and only a temporary one at that.  In the meantime, lets continue to
search for a neutral sponsor for this forum.

Sorry for the bandwidth here, folks, but this is important.  The Digest
is about to make an enormous change.  It's up to us to make sure this
change is in the right direction.
- -- 
Kelly
Portland, OR

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Date: 03 May 96 13:50:15 EDT
From: "Kenneth D. Joseph" <74651.305 at CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Sankey Fermenter?

I am interested in any information regarding the conversion of a 1/2 barrel to a
fermenter.  Please e-mail responses privately.  If there's interest I'll post a
summary.

thx

kj


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Date: 03 May 96 13:50:13 EDT
From: "Kenneth D. Joseph" <74651.305 at CompuServe.COM>
Subject: SS Tubing, Couplings, Etc.

DISCLAIMER:	Un-abashed Commercial "Plug".  I have no affiliation with the
following organization, but I 		have tilted many an elbow with the sales
person I have named as the contact below.

Whew!  In the process of designing and purchasing materials for my 3-tier
brewery, I researched the internet and other sources far and wide for the best
prices for SS 304 materials.  My buddy Shane Wiechmann (pronounced "Week-man")
at PVF Midwest, Inc. hooked me up with first rate stuff at excellent prices.
Shane can be reached at 612-781-4342.  They UPS'd to me immediately.  Shane said
he may put together some kind of price list for brewers so give him a call!
Please tell him where you heard of PVF -- no, I'm not getting anything out of
it.

kj


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Date: Fri, 03 May 1996 11:20:00 -0600 (CST)
From: "Patrick E. Humphrey" <HUMPHREY.PATRICK at igate.pprd.abbott.com>
Subject: Water Analysis

I was finally able to dig up a water analysis for our city well water.  
Would anyone like to comment on it?

			mg/L			mg/L
Hardness, EDTA total	2.4	Alkalinity	251
Chloride		1.6	Fluoride	0.93
Nitrate & NO2		0.01	Sulfate		62
Calcium			40.7	Sodium		35.4
Ammonia-N		0.4	Magnesium	39.1
Potassium		1.9 	(ROE) TDS at 180C	3.1?

			ug/L			ug/L
Copper			10	Manganese	15
Strontium		1400	Iron		407

Hardness Calc.		262C mg/L	
pH = ~6.3

There are some other minor ions listed but I did not include them.  
Carbonate/Bicarbonate levels were not tested and the report was created in 
1992.

I think the iron level is a concern.  Should I use this water for brewing?  
If it is a an ordeal to remove the iron (if needed) I'd rather not go 
through the trouble.  I have sent in a sample for analysis and hopefully 
they will have a more detailed analysis.

Thanks,

Pat


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Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 12:05:34 -0600 (MDT)
From: Hugh Graham <hugh at lamar.ColoState.EDU>
Subject: Ranco Temperature Controller/HBD Sale


I just commisioned a Ranco temperature controller
on a chest freezer.  It seems to be working well
enough for me to continue brewing well into 
the summer, so I thought I'd pass on the details.

Model:            Ranco 010-1410
Control Range:    25 to 75 F
Differential:     6 to 25 F at low end, adjustable
Description:      Refrigerant charged sensor, bellows activated snap action 
                    close-on-rise switch, no electronics, mechanical dial 
                    settings. 
Switching Power:  120V, 24 Amps
Size:             About 3" x 3.5" x 2", Sensor capillary length 72".
List Price:       $47.60
Source:           Grainger (if they'll let you buy there, they are 
                            business-to-business sales oriented)
                           (See page 2429 in their catalog no. 384)
Or:               Ranco Wholesale
                  Uni-Line Div. Robertshaw
                  8115 U.S. Route 42 North
                  Plain City, Ohio 43064
                  (614) 876 8022 

Just wire it into the hot wire of a power cord and you're all set. It has
a mounting plate and screws.  It's designed as a commercial
refrigeration/AC controller, so it's pretty rugged.  It contains a small 
amount of a CFC refrigerant in its sealed sensor. 
No connection etc.

- ------------------------------------------

re: HBD Sale

Thanks to Rob for servicing the digest, it's been a great help.

Shawn Steele wrote:
> As a final note, please give it a few months and if the digest members
> feel that it isn't working for them, we will willingly give it to some
> other party who has the appropriate resources.  I am working hard with
> Rob to make sure that nothing changes and that the Digest continues as
> it has.

OK, but oh boy, change is hard to take....

If the AOB promises to remove nothing from the HBD, can we assume that it
will also add nothing?  I'd hate to read 'RDWHAHB' at the start of every
digest :) I would also be concerned about elements of the digest
reappearing in Zymurgy and the like, maybe in the tips column.  A lot of
the articles posted here are very informal and are clearly not intended
for the rigors of more widespread publication.  Maybe recent concerns
about the copyright of this material could be valid. Or maybe not. 

Should we also be concerned that representatives of other branches of the
homebrewing hierarchy would in future spurn the digest if it's owned by
the AOB?

Hugh


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Date: Thu, 02 May 1996 14:23:54 -0500 (EST)
From: Gregory King <GKING at ARSERRC.Gov>
Subject: IBUs in hopped extract

Greetings fellow homebrewers,

I received a 1.8 kg can of Munton and Fison Nut Brown Ale extract as a gift.
With the information on the label and a little algebra, I figure this will
produce a gravity in the low 30's in a 5-gallon batch (that's US gallons).
2 or 3 lbs of DME will complete the "grain" bill.

Unfortunately, this is a hopped extract, so I don't know how many IBUs to
expect.  Do any of you have this information?

Any suggestions on how to enhance this simple recipe (e.g. finishing hops,
type of yeast to use) will be appreciated as well.

TIA,

Greg
gking at arserrc.gov


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Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 14:22:34 -0400
From: jhewit at freenet.vcu.edu (Jeff Hewit)
Subject: Kudos for Rob/AoB OK with Me/Oxygen-Barrier containers



I'll get in line with the rest of you and extend my thanks to
Rob for running the HBD so well for so long.  I wish him all
the best as he moves on.

******

I have no problems with the Association of Brewers taking over
the HBD.  As an organization whose mission is to support
brewing at all levels, I believe that they are well suited to
do this.  In addition, as an established organization, they
have greater resources to devote to maintaining the digest than
do most individuals.  They also provide greater stability.  (I
think it's amazing that Rob was able to do it for as long as he
did.)  I believe that they will not attempt to censor the
digest.  I am sure if any of us wish to complain about the AoB,
Charlie P, or Zymurgy, they will run it.  I hope that they
will respond to such complaints.  Don't be paranoid about
associating with AoB.  After all, we're all after the same
thing:  great beer!

***********

Now, I have a question.  I know that your basic grocery store
plastic bags and plastic containers will not keep nasty oxygen
away from hops.  I know that glass will work, but I am
reluctant to use glass containers in my freezer.  The way my
family throws stuff around, it's just a matter of time before
it breaks.  I have seen acrylic containers, with clamp-down lids
and rubber sealing rings, similar to the glass containers.  Is
acrylic oxygen proof?  Any ideas if it will serve to store hops
in a friendly environment?  TIA for any input on this.

Jeff Hewit
Midlothian, VA

- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------

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