---

   FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
        Shawn Steele, Digest Janitor
        Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!

Contents:
  pub etiquette (stupid beer-quaffing tricks) (charles epp)
  Question about heat and fermenting (Jeff Tapper)
  Attenuation or Mass Loss? (mhiguchi at ix.netcom.com (Michael Higuchi))
  Re: Hose length/carbonation (Dave Beedle)
  Sparge water temps... (Dave Beedle)
  FWH Weizen (Russell Mast)
  Ireland, etc... (Ulick Stafford)
  Glass carboy Vs. Plastic Tub (Billy_Cole at dgii.com (Billy Cole))
  Long Beer Lines/ CP Fillers/ Coopers (Rob Moline)
  Chicago Beer spots, HBD "lateness" (Russell Mast)
  100% fruit beers (korz at pubs.ih.att.com (Algis R Korzonas))
  This is a t**t (shawn at aob.org (Shawn Steele))

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From: charles epp <cepp at indiana.edu>
Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 15:01:49 -0500 (EST)
Subject: pub etiquette (stupid beer-quaffing tricks)

How about this for stupid beer-quaffing tricks?  (And this is a question
regarding pub etiquette.) Several days ago at my favorite local pub, I got
a pint that wasn't filled to the rim.  It was significantly under.  Maybe
I was tired, maybe I had a bad day (but I don't remember having a bad day
until then).  In any case, I politely asked to have the pint topped off,
which the bartender amicably did, and for which I thanked him.  But my
waitress then proceeded to lecture me on the cost of the brewpub's brewing
equipment and on the fact that they'd done market research and had
determined that $3 for a pint was perfectly acceptable, and that I
shouldn't be so cheap.  Suddenly my enjoyable ale went stale, and I was
left second-guessing my tact.  My question is: at a pub, is it acceptable
to ask that a less than full pint be topped up?  How many of you have been
so principled/daring/rude/selfish/whatever?  

Chuck


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From: Jeff Tapper <jeff.tpr at review.com>
Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 16:52:27 -0400
Subject: Question about heat and fermenting

Hi, I have a batch of what I hope will be a "Belgian Ale" fermenting
in a 6 gal plastic bucket in my kitchen, and I'm wondering what (if
any) impediments to the brewing process will have been caused by the
heat wave of the past two days.  The beer  had been in the fermenter
since Sunday, May 12, and had been at apprx 72 degrees for most of the
fermenting process.  However, from Sunday May 19th through Tuesday May
21st, New York suffered a heat wave, and the fermenter temp was above
76 degrees (I have one of those stick on thermometers that only shows
as high as 76 degrees, so I don't know exactly how high it really
went).

However, the specific gravity continued to fall through the heat wave.
On monday it was 1.14, and on tuesday it was 1.12, and on wednesday it was 1.10.

My question is: Will there be adverse effects on my brew?


Jeff Tapper			Lighting Designer, Web Developer, Home Brewer
jstaps at echonyc.com
"A mob is a mob, whether made up of government officials acting under
instructions from the Department of Justice, or of criminals and loafers and
the vicious classes"
- - Judge George W. Anderson



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From: mhiguchi at ix.netcom.com (Michael Higuchi)
Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 21:16:33 GMT
Subject: Attenuation or Mass Loss?

Here's a technical (and probably useless) question for you yeast
gurus (cross-posted to r.c.b and the h.b.d)

How much of the apparent attenuation in a fermenting wort is
actually due to alcohol production, and how much can be
attributed to production of bio-mass (dead yeast) (and also mass
loss through CO2 evolution)? 

Based upon the amount of yeast I find on the bottom of my
primaries, I would imagine that this represents a significant
proportion. And as we're all aware ;) , CO2 production from a
vigorous ferment is not exactly trivial, although I wouldn't
imagine that a lot of _mass_ gets lost.

Who knows ???

Michael Higuchi
Costa Mesa, California
Michael Higuchi
Costa Mesa, California

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From: Dave Beedle <dbeedle at bacchus.net.ilstu.edu>
Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 16:21:42 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: Hose length/carbonation

In a recent message Bob Waterfall wrote:
> 
> Jay Reeves <jay at ro.com> asks:
> >Can anyone tell me if this is true reguarding psi drop
> >for line length/diameter:
> >
> >size            psi drop per foot
> >
> >3/8" ID         0.25
> >1/4" ID         0.85
> >3/16" ID        2.2 - 3
> >
> >My problem is that I use the 3/16" and am experiencing no
> >where near the 2.2 -3 psi drop per foot.

   I have had the same problem.  I attribute it to the tubing I use.  It's
a soft vinal (sp?) tubing, milk tubing actually.  I figure that the tubing
stretches as pressure is applied and so, I get results that don't correspond
to the table above.  I assume that if I used the rigid beverage tubing like
you see on soda fountains things would change.


TTFN
- --
 Dave Beedle  -  Unix Support Manager - dbeedle at ilstu.edu  -  Network Services
 "Ignorance    |  http://www.ilstu.edu/~dbeedle/  |  Illinois State University
 being bliss is just great until you get run over by a bus    136A Julian Hall
 because you never bothered to learn how to cross the road"  Normal, IL  61761

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From: Dave Beedle <dbeedle at bacchus.net.ilstu.edu>
Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 16:25:20 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Sparge water temps...

   A question that has bugged me for some time...I have noted that while
sparging, using water at about 170 F, that the temperature in the
mash/lauter tun is typically a bit lower, say about 140 or so.  iS this a
conscern?  Should the temperature in the tun be higher?

TTFN
- --
 Dave Beedle  -  Unix Support Manager - dbeedle at ilstu.edu  -  Network Services
 "Ignorance    |  http://www.ilstu.edu/~dbeedle/  |  Illinois State University
 being bliss is just great until you get run over by a bus    136A Julian Hall
 because you never bothered to learn how to cross the road"  Normal, IL  61761

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From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com>
Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 17:11:56 -0500
Subject: FWH Weizen

Jake and Beef and I brewed a Weizen recently.  We used First-Wort Hopping. 
Just a wee bit, I think about .5 oz. per 5 gallons, but Beef has the notes.
The stuff is great.  The hop tones are mostly only in the aftertase and 
subtle.  Maybe more than most folks expect in a Weizen, but it seems to 
harmonize with the rest of the flavors well enough.  

Has anyone gotten a digest since Monday?  I haven't.  I decided to try the
undigested version to see if that works.  Or is this turning into a weekly
forum?  Nyuk nyuk.

- -R

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From: Ulick Stafford <ulick at indigo.ie>
Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 23:12:50 +0100
Subject: Ireland, etc...

I have just ploughed through over a week's hbds including that monster 
inaugural HBD 2042 from aob (PLEASE LIMIT SIZE - 50 K PER DAY IS ALREADY 
A STRUGGLE) and have some comments ...

>On a different note, I am looking for info on pubs and small breweries in 
Ireland.  I'll be there for most of June, up in & around Cavan and down in the
Ring of Kerry area.  But I would certainly travel a couple of hours in any
direction for a good brewery.  BTW, we already plan to see Murphy & Beamish
Breweries in Cork;  I was hoping to find some smaller operations, and maybe 
pick up a used beer engine along the way.  I heard there is a micro in Dublin -
anyone know the name and address?  I've seen pub guides for London, but none
for areas of Eire.  I know most of the towns I'll be near are one-pub towns, 
but it would be nice to know where some good free house pubs are since I sus-
pect many pubs are Guinness-owned. 
Dave Hinkle
Phoenix AZ

Best of luck with Murphy's and Beamish.  Guinness don't have tours at any 
of their breweries anymore (I didn't think those two did either).  The 
only brewpub south of the border is in Inagh, County Clare (on 
Ennis-Enistymon road) and produces its Biddy Early stout.  The micro in 
Dublin in not open yet.  Please do not call our country Eire.  It 
offends.  Eire is the Irish (Gaelic) for Ireland but is often misused by 
the Brits for the unoccupied portion of the country.  Pubs are so 
numerous and good in Ireland you don't need a guide.  I am off to the 
Centenary Stores in a few minutes.  There are very few one pub towns in 
Ireland.  Towns with a population of around 2,500 with in excess of 20 
pubs are common.  All pubs are privately owned.  The range of beers may 
be limited, but this is not due to Guinness.

Al as usual...
>I recommend you first let satisfied customers point out errors in your
critics' assertions.  Unsolicited, unbiased testimonials are worth
a hundred of your posts and are much less taxing on the HBD.  As I
said in my post which apparently did not get to you in time, advertisements
are really bad form in the HBD.

>Even if a brewer is not anal retentive, sanitizing anything that comes in
contact with the wort is highly recommended.

>>1,500 bottles, and have experienced no problems with contamination.  Do
>>try this at home. 

>I agree... don't try this at home.  That you have experienced no problems
with contamination either means that:

>Sorry that this was not beer related, but two ads like this in one
week is two too many.  I hope you all emailed "Steve" and informed him
of his grave mistake like I did.

Al (copyright) Korzanos is always good for a laugh!


 HuskerRed at aol.com says...

I thought a pint was 16 oz. or are the *bloody Brit* different? 

and  Dave Hinkle <Dave.Hinkle at aexp.com>
>Let's set the record straight on British imperial measures.  A British 
imperial 
pint is 4 gills, one gill is 5 oz (imperial), and one imperial oz. is 28.41 
cc.  A US fluid oz is 29.57 cc;  from this you determine that an Imperial pint 
is 568.2 cc, and a US fluid pint is 473.1 cc, or that an Imperial pint is 
equivalent to 19.2 US fluid oz.

>Note that British imperial measures are for both fluid and dry measure;  US 
measures for fluid vs. dry differ (ie. US fluid pint is 473.1 cc, while US dry 
pint is 551 cc).  Note that the US dry pint is very close to the British 
imperial fluid/dry pint.  US dry measures are all quite close to British 
imperial measures.  Guess we Yanks just had to be different and invent a 
separate fluid measurement system.  Think about that next time you buy a pint 
of blueberries.

Actually the American system is the old British Queen Anne system and 
doesn't suffer the creeping metricisation of British measures (e.g. 1 
gallon = 10 lb of water).  But on the other hand  Michael Higuchi of Costa 
Mesa, California uses percentage extraction for yield.  I would love to 
see this norm adapted as the traditional points of sg per US gallon per 
pound of malt is a horribly parochial unit, while percentage extraction 
applies to any unit system.  Can someone post a conversion formula?
_____________________________________________________________________________
         Wexford Brewing Company           | Ulick Stafford, Proprietor  
 Purveyor of Advanced Homebrewing Supplies | ulick at indigo.ie
     Ballyhurst, Taghmon, Co. Wexford      | Phone/Fax: +353-53-47957


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From: Billy_Cole at dgii.com (Billy Cole)
Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 15:39:32 -0700
Subject: Glass carboy Vs. Plastic Tub

Hello fellow brewers,

I have done about 5 or 6 partial grain batches and am thinking about a glass
carboy for my fermentation in my next batch. I enjoy the plastic tub because
after I cool my wort in my boil pot, I can pour the cooled wort into the
plastic tub and get some aeration while the wort is splashing around. I'm
wondering if I decided to use a glass carboy, how to I get my beer from the
boiling pot to the glass carboy (most likely bottle filler), and when do I
aerate in this case? I would like to avoid using the aquarium pump method.
Any help/suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks.

P.S. - any good recipes for a 5 gallon, partial grain batch of a Sierra Nevada
       Pale Ale clone? I would be very grateful. Thanks.

 

================================================================================
- -Billy 
billyc at dgii.com


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From: Rob Moline <brewer at kansas.net>
Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 17:56:50 -0500
Subject: Long Beer Lines/ CP Fillers/ Coopers

Darrin Pertschi in HBD 2043 asks about a long draft line from kegs in the
basement up to a faucet located elsewhere. Possible, but unless the entire
length of the line is cooled, you will get a LOT of foam. This is one area
that plagues bars and the like that must run long lines from a coolroom to a
remote bar. The standard solution for short runs is to run the line thru
ducting or flexible tubing of sufficient inner diameter to allow a blower in
the coolroom to blow cold air thru the ducting and back thru a return duct.
Long lines are usually equipped with a dedicated glycol chiller that runs
glycol thru an insulated hose that has a bundled set of lines within,
including two for chilled glycol, both to and from the remote location. This
is to prevent the dreaded 'hot-spots' that will make your life a foamy hell! 

Bryan Gros and others talking 'bout CP bottle fillers.
I have built a few in my time, but they were always a PITA to use and I
usually wore more beer than I bottled. In retrospect, I was working too hard
on the problem, with two or more valves and all that. Kinney Baughman turned
me on to what has become my favored player when small quantities are needed
for competition or sending a few bottles to friends. Start with one standard
black plastic 'cobra' head faucet(cheap!), shove a length of 3/8 ID copper
tube up the spout, it fits like a glove (not O.J.'s), then place a drilled
stopper along it's length (don't know which #, but the top is approx. 3/4
and the bottom is approx. 5/8) such that the copper tube sits immediately
above the bottle bottom with the stopper wedged into the bottle top. Take a
sanitized bottle, and blow co2 into it from another cobra head on a co2 line
at low pressure to try to get as much atmospheric gas out and co2 in as
possible, then place the filler in the bottle and hold the stopper in
tightly with one hand, and open the faucet up so it STAYS OPEN. Observe as
the beer fills the bottle about 1/4 -1/3 full and watch the foam subside.
Then carefully wiggle the stopper out, just a wee bit to allow gas to
escape, and the beer to fill the bottle to the top. Hold the stopper for a
few seconds to allow pressure equalization. Flip the black valve closed and
swiftly pass the bottle to your capper (works best withat least 2 people, I
like 3, one to drain Iodophor and gas it up, 1 to fill, 1 to cap.)
I find I must run the gas pressure to the keg at about 2psi above standard
pressure to allow for losses before capping. The nice thing is it's cheap,
and you don't need 3 hands to operate the valves and the stopper. Simplicity
rules, just like a boxer pushrod engine!

Andy Walsh defends Coopers. Having made over 125 extract batches with
Coopers kits in my younger days, I give them my praise. Very high quality
and tasty kits! Is any body distributing Aussie brewed Coopers in the US?
Haven't seen them for some years, now.

Rob Moline 
Little Apple Brewing Company
Manhattan, Kansas

"The more I know about beer, the more I realize I need to know more about 
beer!"


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From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com>
Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 18:02:01 -0500
Subject: Chicago Beer spots, HBD "lateness"

> From: "Roger Deschner  " <U52983te: Thu, 23 May 1996 12:15:01 CDT Subject: Re:
> Beer In Chicago (so nobody else has to ask)

> CLARK STREET ALE HOUSE, Clark icago.

I think that's "Clark just south of Chicago".  The 800 N Block.  They do have
a few hors d'ouvres on Fridays, but nothing for a meal.  They also sell cigars,
as does the homeopathic pharmacy around the corner.  Too much bar seating and
not enough tables, but a great place.  Also, a wide selection of single malt
scotch, and a favorite spot of geeks of many stripes.

> ROCK BOTTOM BREWERY, State and. 

Hmmm...  Maybe the guy that forwarded this to me accidentally deleted some 
bits.  That's "State and Grand".  Take the Grand stop from the Red Line L.

> BERGHOFF, Adams ate.

Adams and State.  Great place, great beer, great people.  Also, a great place
for a stand up "pub lunch", they have a deli counter with decent prices (great
for downtown) and great food (rare in downtown).  They close at 9pm.  Big hit
with after-work crowds, including the folks from my office.  See you there.

There are a number of places in Wrigleyville with great beer selection, Rog 
mentioned a couple I think.  There's also the Wrigleyville tap, and I've 
heard good things about "Quenchers" but I've never been there.  

There is also the HopLeaf, further norh on Clark, just south of Foster.  
(5100 block)  Just around the corner on Ashland is the Neo-Futurarium, source 
of the best live theatre stuff anywhere at all ever.  Trust me.  Call their 
hotline for showtimes.  I don't have the number with me right now, it's in 
the phonebook.  The HopLeaf has a good tap selection and a great selection 
of bottled imports, including some Belgian stuff that's not that easy to find.

The Map Room was serving Boon Gueze for $4 a bottle, not sure if they're still
doing that, I don't remember where it was, but they say I had a great time.

There's also the Augenblick, which I've never been to and I'm not
sure where it is, that is supposed to have great selection. 

There's a little German joint at Addison and St. Louis called Mirabell, 
which has some hard to find German brands on tap.  (It's 2-3 blocks east 
of the Dan Ryan, just across from the giant K-Mart.)  

The Duke of Perth on the 2900 Block of North Clark has a fair selection of 
beer and a peerless selection of single malt scotches, and is in a good area 
for book, record, antique, and other shopping, as well as a good spot for 
theatre and restaurants.

Oh, and John Barleycorn's at 658 W. Belden, corner of Lincoln and Belden.  
(That's the 2200 block of north Lincoln.)  They have a very good selection 
of beers on tap, decent food at a decent price, and an interesting interior.  
Plenty of room, too.  It gets sort of a youngish crowd on the weekends.  

> From: shawnob.org (Shawn Steele) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 13:03:43 -0600 Subject:
> Digest Lateness
> 
> The digest is being slow, but you should still receive it eventually.

The last one I got was #2042.  I resubscribed a few times.  Several other 
people have reported this same problem in private e-mail to me, and have 
double-checked to make sure they were subscribed.  Something is not working!

> If the transmission time cannot be brought under control by
> Friday's digest, Rob & I have an alternate plan to improve timelyness.

Good.  Can you try to make sure everyone gets theirs at all?  A good buddy
of mine forwarded me the last couple copies, and I got those.  Oh, now I 
got a good one.  Apparently it's from root at aob.org.  Interesting.  (I just
subscribed to the piecemeal version, which works, uh, sort of.)

Good luck!

- -R

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From: korz at pubs.ih.att.com (Algis R Korzonas)
Date: Thu, 23 May 96 13:24:15 CDT
Subject: 100% fruit beers

Tracy writes:
>I entered two different fruit beers in a recent competition. One was made
>with fresh ripe raspberries, the other with apricot extract. The apricot ale
>took first in the fruit beer category. The judges seemed to think it was
>made with fresh fruit. Brewers Resource apricot 'essence' fooled 'em!

Mind you, there is always the issue of differences in palates.  I may just
be more sensitive to something in these extracts than most tasters.  Also,
judges are not infallible, myself included.  I've heard of a lot of
people who have said that they get great fruit beers with these
extracts, but I haven't tasted one personally.  Finally, I cannot honestly
say that I've tasted every brand of fruit extract (I have tried well over
a dozen).  The Pyramid Apricot is perhaps the closest thing to what I would
call a good fruit beer made with extract.  I'll have to try the Brewer's
Resource apricot essence and see for myself.  Thanks for the pointer.

Al.


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From: shawn at aob.org (Shawn Steele)
Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 19:15:53 -0600
Subject: This is a t**t

I have corrected the local computer error, so this message & digest
is part of a check to see if it is now behaving correctly.  My
apologies for the irregularities of the digest.

- - shawn
Digest Janitor

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