Homebrew Digest Friday, 24 May 1996 Number 2048
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FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Shawn Steele, Digest Janitor
Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!
Contents:
Pub Etiquette ("Phillip J. Birmingham")
Big and Huge results (Robert Paolino)
RE: Propane cookers ("Keith Royster")
Yawn... (Jack Schmidling)
NHC comments ("Bryan L. Gros")
apparent attenuation (TMCASTLE at pwinet.upj.com)
RE:pub etiquette (stupid beer-quaffing tricks) ("ADAIR, BENTON E.")
Re: hydrometer readings (Spencer W Thomas)
"Miller" Beer... ("Patrick G. Babcock")
Homebrew shops in Portland, OR (ritchie at wnstar.com (Clark D. Ritchie))
Fermentation Chiller for Lagering (KennyEddy at aol.com)
pub etiquette (Neil Roberts)
Hmmmmm! Grain Mills? (Scott Abene)
Purine (Kit Anderson)
re: pub etiquette (Brian Cornelius)
Re: pub etiquette (stupid beer-quaffing tricks) ("Ray Frush")
Is my beer ruined? (Spencer W Thomas)
Pub Etiq. (ymsin at pc.jaring.my (Sin))
Re: Crabtree?, underfilling pints ("Tracy Aquilla")
Re: All grain vs. Partial extract (Kirk Johnson)
Pub etiquette ("Gene R. Rankin")
Re: pub etiquette/pint glasses (charles epp)
The _right_ way to use The Carbonator ;-) ("Steven W. Smith")
homebrew programs - BiereMAG (Frederick Tremblay)
Propane burners ("Michael T. Bell")
Grain age ("Michael T. Bell")
rye, propane, and etc. ("Gregory, Guy J.")
Re: Hmmmmm! Grain Mills? (Russell Mast)
not receiving Digest (mglinski at gnn.com (Michael Glinski))
re: pub etiquette (Russell Mast)
CaCl source & Poor Hot Break (Larry Calcaterra)
The Move (shawn at aob.org (Shawn Steele))
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From: "Phillip J. Birmingham" <phillip at mcs.com>
Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 06:26:45 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Pub Etiquette
[Chuck asks to have short pour topped up]
> But my
> waitress then proceeded to lecture me on the cost of the brewpub's brewing
> equipment and on the fact that they'd done market research and had
> determined that $3 for a pint was perfectly acceptable, and that I
> shouldn't be so cheap. Suddenly my enjoyable ale went stale, and I was
> left second-guessing my tact. My question is: at a pub, is it acceptable
> to ask that a less than full pint be topped up? How many of you have been
> so principled/daring/rude/selfish/whatever?
Three bucks is perfectly acceptable for a pint, but that's beside
the point. If you're being sold a glass of beer, you should get a glass
of beer; investing tens of thousands of dollars in brewing equipment gives
nobody the right to rip off customers. Considering the usage of "cheater"
pint glasses (look like ordinary pint glasses, they call 'em pint glasses,
but they hold 14 oz -- ha, ha, very funny) and other chicanery, you're
well within your rights to ask that a glass be filled completely (within
reason.) Take your cue from the bartender's behavior, not the waitress'.
- --
Phillip J. Birmingham
phillip at mcs.com "Tampering in God's Domain since 1965!" TMA#7
http://www.mcs.com/~phillip/home.html
Return to table of contents
From: Robert Paolino <rpaolino at execpc.com>
Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 07:13:57 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Big and Huge results
I've received a number of requests to post Big and Huge results, so here
goes
The Madison Homebrewers and Tasters Guild had their Tenth Annual Big and Huge
Homebrew Competition for high gravity beers on May 11 at Angelic Brewing
Company. Bill Clark and Steve Olson, of Duluth, Minnesota, took Best of Show
with a very huge eisbock. Beers in the competition advanced through three
rounds of competition: a style grouping, "big" and "huge" categories, and a
best-of-show round. Thanks to all the entrants. Here are the other winners:
Huge Lagers
1-Bill Clark and Steve Olson--Duluth, MN (Eisbock)
2-Mark Lovejoy--Madison, WI (Maibock)
3-Mike Ball--Cambridge, WI (Helles Bock)
Big Lagers
1-Bill Clark--Duluth, MN (Traditional Bock)
2-Bob Drousth--Madison, WI (Bohemian Pils)
3-Jim Connors--Lake Geneva, WI (American Cream Ale/Lager)
Huge Ale
1-Spencer Thomas--Ann Arbor, MI (Belgian Strong/Herb Beer)
2-Bill Clark and Steve Olson--Duluth, MN (Barley Wine)
3-Gerald Poss--Fish Creek, WI (Foreign Style Stout)
Big Ale
1-(Disqualified--Ineligible entry)
2-Bob Paolino--Madison, WI (Porter)
3-Dana Edgell--Madison, WI (Porter)
* * * * *
Barley Wine
1-Peter Garofalo--Syracuse, NY
2-Bill Clark and Steve Olson--Duluth, MN
3-Spencer Thomas--Ann Arbor, MI
Belgian Ales
1-Steve McKenna--Wheaton,IL (Tripel)
2-Fred Hardy--Fairfax, VA (Belgian Strong)
3-Jim Connors--Lake Geneva, WI (Dubbel)
American Ales/Pale Ales/Bitters/Scottish Ales
1-Jeff Zadro--Milwaukee, WI (IPA)
2-Mike Riddle & Jonathan Deeds--San Rafael, CA (Scottish Export)
3-Jim Connors--Lake Geneva, WI (ESB)
Porter
1-Dana Edgell--Madison, WI
2-Bob Paolino--Madison, WI
3-Robert Ward--DeKalb, IL
English Strong Ales
1-Bob Paolino--Madison, WI (Old Ale)
2-Bob Wolff--Ellicott City, MD (Strong Scotch Ale)
3-Don McCreath--Maple Bluff, WI (Strong Scotch Ale)
Stout
1-Gerald Poss--Fish Creek, WI (Foreign Style)
2-Bob Paolino--Madison, WI (Imperial)
3-Fred Hardy--Fairfax, VA (Imperial)
Meads and Ciders
1-Robb Harris--Madison, WI (Still traditional mead)
2-Bob Paolino--Madison, WI (Still cider)
3-Fred Hardy--Fairfax, VA (Still cyser)
Many thanks to the sponsors, who provided prizes or other assistance with the
competition: Briess Malting, Northwestern Extracts, L.D. Carlson, Hopunion
USA, Just Hops, Yeast Culture Kit Company, Davison Manufacturing/Homebrew
Color Guide, Tkach Enterprises/The Fermometer, All About Beer, Brew Your Own,
The Wine and Hop Shop, Angelic Brewing Company.
Thanks also to the judges and stewards who travelled from near and far to take
on
the huge task of all those beers. The long-distance award, for travelling the
farthest to judge, goes to "Bat" Bateman of Dayton, Ohio.
Now go have a beer,
Bob Paolino
Madison rpaolino at earth.execpc.com
Have a beer today... for your palate and for good health
Return to table of contents
From: "Keith Royster" <keith.royster at ponyexpress.com>
Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 08:26:54 -0500
Subject: RE: Propane cookers
Dan Aldrich asks about propane cookers that can hold the weight of
his brewing setup
> When I read the instructions, it said the weight limit for the
> cooker was only 50lbs, not much weight at all by brewing standards.
> This isn't a small unit either; 170,000btu.
The Cajun Cooker is quite sturdy, 170,000btu, and about $45 at my
local brew store. The down side is that it is a jet burner, which
IMO is inferior to the ring burners for controlling heat output. I
was always more likely to scortch my wort with the old jet burner.
Another alternative is to take the burner you have and build a
stronger frame for it. I was at Sam's (Div. of WalMart) last night
and they have a little propane cooker for only $35. The frame is
flimsy and would not hold up a brewing kettle, but the ring burner
is rated at 160,000 Btu and it could easily be removed from its
housing and attached to another frame of your choice.
Keith Royster - Keith.Royster at ponyexpress.com
at your.service - http://dezines.com/ at your.service
Mooresville, North Carolina
Return to table of contents
From: Jack Schmidling <arf at maxx.mc.net>
Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 08:17:36 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Yawn...
>From: Charlie Scandrett <merino at cynergy.com.au>
>Scroll down unless you are interested in the finer points of crushing sizes,
perhaps we are crushing bores?
Ditto...
Your detailed critique of my dissertation is cleary from the heart but
misguided on a fundamental premise...
>The object of six roller mills is *evenness* of crush.
Just where is that written? And just what do YOU mean
by "evenness" as I doubt that any scientific description of the
job would choose that word.
The object of milling (it doesn't matter what you use) is to provide
the prescribed statistical distribution of grist. Evenness would imply
that each sieve would pass exactly the same amount of grist and
you would end up with nice even piles. This clearly is not the case
and therefore anyway one can achieve the "proper" quantity of each
specific grist size would be as good as any other if time were not
an issue.
If you crushed the malt with a rolling pin and trained monkies to pick
up the particles, weigh them and drop them into appropriate bins in
the agreed to numbers, you could achieve the "text book crush" if
you just threw away what was not needed.
> If Jack were right, brewers would simply crush half the grist one
setting and the other half at another setting and save themselves a
lot of money in multi-stage mills!
That is not a good analogy but it would be a step in the right
direction. It would be better to run all the malt through at
both settings. A better analogy would be to run it through one
pass with the rollers set to different spacings at each end.
This would provide an infinite number of different spacing
across the rollers and not just two as in your analogy.
To bring you back on course and hopefully end this thing,
the advantages of the multistage mill are two:
Because of the independent roller spacing and sieving, the grist
is accurately controllable. With my way it is serendipitous that
is comes out close to the "textbook" look but little can be done
to fine tune it.
> This even crushing of outer layers is difficult because they are
fused to the husk. To perform this task De Clerck recommends
that "Great care must be taken in fitting the rolls, so that they are
set exactly parallel."
Pardon me for challenging such an august authority but that seems
a bit of a non sequitir and needs to be substantiated. Nothing I
know of would offer credence to that statement. It makes no
sense at all.
>Malting and Brewing Science says "there should be no uncrushed
kernels, the endosperm particles should be reasonably uniform in
size, and the majority of husks should be entire".
Who on earth would argue with that? It's what we all want but if
it were an absolute need, none of us would be making beer, would
we?
Fact is, we buy the mill that comes closest to that goal and is within
our budget.
>One commercial brewer told me that with well modified malt he
would ideally like a complete husk and the rest of the corn in 8
to 10 equal pieces. Fineness wasn't important to him, he was
trying to keep phenol and lipid extraction down.
Good prospect for a pre-adjusted MM. The coarser crush is
designed with that in mind.
>However I know the MM doesn't crush so evenly that it must
be set out of parallel to aproximate the *best* a six roller with
grading sieves can do!
Don't know what that means and doesn't sound like anything I ever
said.
>Jack is claiming a better, more even crush set parallel than high tech mills
can do, so he has to downgrade it?? Setting out of parallel gives a more
uneven crush!
This makes even less sense.
>Yes, yes. Crush coarse and accept *some* unevenness and
hang the extraction! You will make a better and easier beer.
Setting your maltmill out of parallel may have a placebo effect
on your beer quality....
It is my contention that an adjustable mill has a placebo effect.
The pre-adjusted MM will satisfy your guidelines.
>but I am unconvinced of it's technical merit!
At this point and to end this... I would be contented
with a concession that it is not a dis-advantage. Whether
you agree that it is a feature or not was never my point. I
just don't like folks spreading mis-information about my
products.
>"Good humour" suggests a generosity of spirit, it does not
include sarcasm.
Surely you jest? Much of the world's best humour is sarcastic
in tone.
js
***********************
Visit our Web page for product flyers, applications info and other
totally unbiased opinions from the World's Greatest Brewer.
http://dezines.com/ at your.service/jsp/
Return to table of contents
From: "Bryan L. Gros" <grosbl at ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu>
Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 08:15:31 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: NHC comments
FWIW, I entered a beer in the Florida section of the NHC. The score sheets
came back 37 and 39, so not bad. There were some strange inconsistencies
between judges comments (e. g. full bodied on one and thin on the other),
but no more than any other competition.
Fred Hard wrote:
>The Washington, DC, area has a plethora of judges AND experienced
>organizers. The AHA approached several of us in the area about organizing
>a 1st round NHC regional site. There were no takers, and the AHA was
>forced to seek other sites. Why were there no takers?
>
>Members of my club (we're small) cited risk of financial ruin (the AHA and
>the regional organizers operate on a very tight budget) as one of two main
>reasons. The other was that it is a bunch of work, and they saw no payoff
>for their efforts.
These remearks were rather surprising. When you see the official national
competition run by the official national homebrew organization, you expect
that it will be run the best that it can be. Small, local competitions
suffer from lack of capital and lack of volunteers occasionally, but for
this competition, I would expect enough backing that these problems would
not be a factor. After all, the entry fee is higher than most competitions
and there are more entries than any other competition.
Any other comments.
- Bryan
grosbl at ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
Nashville, TN
Return to table of contents
From: TMCASTLE at pwinet.upj.com
Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 09:38:25 -0400
Subject: apparent attenuation
In HBD #2046, Michael Higuchi asks if the attenuation of the gravity
in our alchemy experiments is more than the simple conversion of
sugar to alcohol. I'm no yeast guru, but the answer is yes. There
is a Universal Truth principle in chemistry called Conservation of
Mass. Unless you do an Einstein (convert mass to energy), the mass
has got to be somewhere. Some mass is lost due to CO2 evolution (no
not like monkeys to megabrewery owners), some drops out like you
said (so it doesn't contribute to the density of the solution), and
alcohol is produced wich has a lower density than water. But I
don't think that anticipated alcohol is calculated on a molar basis
from the sugar, it's sort of like the math sociologists use.
--tom castle
Zen of Homebrewing http://www.netcom.com/~tmcastle
Return to table of contents
From: "ADAIR, BENTON E." <ADAIRBE at austy944a.aust.tdprs.state.tx.us>
Date: Fri, 24 May 96 08:58:00 PDT
Subject: RE:pub etiquette (stupid beer-quaffing tricks)
<irate mode on>
Y'know if that waitstaff-person-individual (pc-bs) is so damn high and
mighty concerned about market analysis and price per pint then maybe that
establishment should invest in German produced commercial glassware.
Each and every glass would be marked at a point where the level of
product should rest. Otherwise fill it to the rim, damnit! You did not
say you had a problem with the price but the volume (now the service and
atmosphere).
I never had a pint miss the mark the whole month that I was in southern
Germany and here in the good ole US of A (aka Land of the Bountiful
Amber Waves of Grain(beer)) I get the response that you initially got-
"No problem".
Is it true that in the old days that if a customer was served a draft
with excessive foam/head that the customer would be inclined to blow it
off into the bartender's face? yikes, no wonder there are so many fight
scenes in western movies.
relax and have a homebrew,
zymologicaly,
Ben
<irate mode off>
p.s. sorry for the non-brew comments but stuff like that really gets to
me.
Return to table of contents
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu>
Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 10:14:24 -0400
Subject: Re: hydrometer readings
>>>>> "James" == James and Tamara Williams <texan at mindspring.com> writes:
James> The lack of activity in your starter is likely due
James> to the amount of malt you used. A couple of tablespoons is
James> not enough. You need to use closer to a cup in two cups of
James> water. to start.
I question this. An appropriate amount is 1 lb in 1 gallon. I find
it hard to believe that there are 8 cups of extract in a pound. 1/2
cup is probably closer if you *must* measure by volume (a notoriously
unreliable way to measure fine powders such as DME.) You're aiming
for a starter gravity of about 1.040 for most beers.
=Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI (spencer at umich.edu)
Return to table of contents
From: "Patrick G. Babcock" <pbabcock at ford.com>
Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 10:22:20 -0400
Subject: "Miller" Beer...
Greetings Beerlings! Take me to your lager....
>Miller claims their new beer is made from the "heart of the hops"...
Yeah, right. More like the sphincter...
See ya!
Pat Babcock
pbabcock at oeonline.com
Return to table of contents
From: ritchie at wnstar.com (Clark D. Ritchie)
Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 07:23:45 -0700
Subject: Homebrew shops in Portland, OR
I just relocated to the Rose City and am rather dissapointed by the
selection of homebrew shops that I found in the Yellow Pages. Given that
they are spread across a sizeable metopolitan area, to save myself the time
of driving from here to Timbuktu, what are the best shops? Who has good
bulk prices? Are there any close to NW/SW area? What about homebrew clubs?
Private email, please. Thanks... CDR
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Clark D. Ritchie, ritchie at wnstar.com
World Wide Web: http://www.wnstar.com/ritchie/
Return to table of contents
From: KennyEddy at aol.com
Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 10:29:39 -0400
Subject: Fermentation Chiller for Lagering
Chris Weirup comments on my Fermentation Chiller:
> Even then, I find that the contraption will struggle to get
> down to anything colder than around45-48 degrees F. But that may have more
> to do with my poor building skills than the design of the contraption :).
Nope, your skills are intact. Being mostly an ale guy I haven't messed with
really pushiung this thing, although a friend who just built one is
maintaining regulation at 55F. The *air temperature* will drop to around
45F as Chris says; given enough time the wort will approach this. The new
cut plan which should allow for *4* jugs of ice ?may? improve this
performance.
The Chiller was first posted erroneously described as a "lagering cabinet";
its intent was more for controlling fermentation temperature at reasonable
levels (especially for ales) but true "lagering" is perhaps overstating the
capability. Bottom line is that for some lagers, using the present design,
you should be able to get at least the fermentation stage done at a
reasonable temperature (~45 - 50F) but you'll require "real" refrigeration
for the "cold conditioning" portion of the lager schedule.
Ken Schwartz
KennyEddy at aol.com
http://users.aol.com/kennyeddy
Return to table of contents
From: Neil Roberts <neil at wsnet.com>
Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 09:47:05 -0500
Subject: pub etiquette
I don't know where you are located, but our local brewpub here feels the
need to price their beer at $3.00 per pint, and it's not even very good.
They have no competition, for that matter, the only draft beer you can
get in Montgomery, AL, is in that brewpub. I have discussed the
economics with the owner, and he freely says he could make a good profit
at $2 or even less per pint. I've been to brewpubs in other cities, and
it is common for the prices where there is competition to be about $2 to
$2.50 per pint.
I think you were well within your rights to insist that the glass at
least be full. Besides, the waitress was clueless to the fact that the
extra ounce or so actually cost fractions of a cent. You had already
paid the $3.00 that they were counting on getting from the beer, thus
paying for a _LOT_ of overhead and equipment amortization.
Back to lurking....
Neil Roberts
Outlaw Homebrewer
Return to table of contents
From: Scott Abene <skotrat at wwa.com>
Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 09:45:29 -0500
Subject: Hmmmmm! Grain Mills?
Hey all,
Does anyone here have an opinion on a good grain mill to buy?
I mean what are the differences really?
Is a roller mill better than a plate mill???
How bout my coffee grinder? Is this a good way to mill my grain?
Anybody here make their own mills and sell them?
- -Scott "I just couldn't resist this sick little bit of sarcasm" Abene
################################################################
# ThE-HoMe-BrEw-RaT #
# Scott Abene <skotrat at wwa.com> #
# http://miso.wwa.com/~skotrat (the Homebrew "Beer Slut" page) #
# OR #
# http://miso.wwa.com/~skotrat/Brew-Rat-Chat/ (Brew-Rat-Chat) #
# "Get off your dead ass and brew" #
# "If beer is liquid bread, maybe bread is solid beer" #
################################################################
Return to table of contents
From: Kit Anderson <kit at maine.com>
Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 10:59:55 -0400
Subject: Purine
Does anybody know the level of purine in filtered and unfiltered beer? I MAY
have to go on a low purine diet and if filtering brings the purine level low
enough, I will be extremely happy.
- ---
Kit Anderson
<kit at maine.com>
Bath, Maine
The Maine Beer Page http://www.maine.com/brew
Return to table of contents
From: Brian Cornelius <bcorneli at wsu.edu>
Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 07:57:57 -0700
Subject: re: pub etiquette
>Charles Epp wrote: I got a pint that wasn't filled to the rim. It was
significantly under. I politely asked to have the pint topped off. But my
waitress then proceeded to lecture me on the cost of the brewpub's brewing
equipment and on the fact that they'd done market research and had
determined that $3 for a pint was perfectly acceptable, and that I shouldn't
be so cheap. My question is: at a pub, is it acceptable to ask that a less
than full pint be topped up?
It's called "Getting a full measure". You didn't get ALL of that $3 pint.
Sounds like a perfectly reasonable request to me. BTW, I recall that
Oktoberfest has a form of beer police that check for this. They want to
make sure that you don't get too much foam (not enough beer) or perhaps too
little that would suggest a beer not poured just before serving.
Brian
Return to table of contents
From: "Ray Frush" <frush at lance.colostate.edu>
Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 09:10:21 -600
Subject: Re: pub etiquette (stupid beer-quaffing tricks)
> From: charles epp <cepp at indiana.edu>
> Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 15:01:49 -0500 (EST)
> Subject: pub etiquette (stupid beer-quaffing tricks)
>
> [snip!]
> My question is: at a pub, is it
> acceptable to ask that a less than full pint be topped up? How many of
> you have been so principled/daring/rude/selfish/whatever?
>
I have, on several occations, asked to have my glass topped off when it
was obviously low. Maybe U.S. pubs should take after thier European
counterparts. In England, (imperial) pint glasses are clearly marked to
indicate the fill line for one pint and the glass is large enough to
contain several fluid ounces of foam!
/---------------------------------------------+-----------------------\
| Raymond Frush at Colorado State University |"Time flies like an |
| Engineering Network Services | arrow, but fruit flies|
| frush at LANCE.ColoState.EDU | like a banana." |
|---------------------------------------------+-----------------------|
| http://haystack.lance.colostate.edu/default.htm |
\---------------------------------------------------------------------/
Return to table of contents
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu>
Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 11:15:03 -0400
Subject: Is my beer ruined?
I've seen a lot of posts recently to the effect "thus-and-such
happened, is my beer ruined?" Have you *TASTED* it yet???
How-in-the-he** can you expect US to know? Sheesh!
(Sorry, the most recent crop must have hit a nerve...)
=Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI (spencer at umich.edu)
Return to table of contents
From: ymsin at pc.jaring.my (Sin)
Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 23:25:10 +0800 (MYT)
Subject: Pub Etiq.
Yes, I have requested for a refil only to be stared at. I enjoy every single
drop of my beer and if a pint is not filled, I get disappointed.
Nevertheless, I sometimes coax myself to think it's only a small drop in a
vast ocean of enjoyment.
Kerry
Return to table of contents
From: "Tracy Aquilla" <aquilla at salus.med.uvm.edu>
Date: Fri, 24 May 96 12:22:36 CDT
Subject: Re: Crabtree?, underfilling pints
In Digest #2044:
Andy Walsh <awalsh at crl.com.au> wrote:
>>Jim Cave writes:
>>For fear of Crabtree with the very high levels
>>of dextrose to be added, I prepared a very large starter (2.5 litres) with
>>45 litres of beer. I pitched this in a conventional gravity 1.058 wort, well
>>oxygenated, and got a very happy ferment going. My thoughts were to get a
>>vigorous ferment and then add liquid dextrose...wrong! I added the Dextrose
>>and the ferment virtually came to a halt.
>
>I too have tried adding dextrose mid-ferment to Belgians for fear of
Crabtree.
>I agree it doesn't work, and is a great way to get a stuck ferment. When
using
>high dextrose concentrations, it seems to be best added in the boil, but even
>then some yeasts just won't ferment out.
First, I think you guys may be confusing the Crabtree effect with catabolite
repression. The Crabtree effect is a metabolic regulatory mechanism whereby
respiration is inhibited by the presence of fermentable sugars (all of
them), even when oxygen is available. This is why yeast don't respire in
wort. Catabolite repression is a different metabolic regulatory mechanism,
although it is frequently either confused with or erroneously lumped
together with the Crabtree effect. Whenever glucose (dextrose) is present,
yeast will consume it preferentially over any other sugar, including
maltose. This is called catabolite repression. Glucose is always consumed
first and the other sugars will not be consumed until essentially all of the
glucose is gone.
Secondly, by waiting until mid-fermentation to add the glucose, you're
essentially 'shocking' your yeast. In this case, I'd expect them to quit on
you. It's true that high glucose levels in wort (or particularly in a yeast
starter) can result in a relatively long lag time and/or poor attenuation
with some strains. This is due to catabolite repression. If the yeast is
adapted to glucose, it will take some time to adapt to maltose because the
enzymes involved in the uptake of these two sugars are different, and when
switching substrates the yeast must 'shift gears' to induce the biosynthesis
of these different enzymes. If you add glucose to mid-ferment beer, when the
yeast are munching away on maltose, you'll basically shock the yeast. It
won't continue to consume the maltose because glucose represses maltose
uptake and catabolism, and it won't be able to consume the glucose yet
because the cells have to 'shift gears' first. So they usually end up just
sitting there, settling to the bottom. Add the glucose at the beginning
(i.e. during the boil). Then the yeast will consume all of the glucose
before consuming any of the maltose. This gives the cells the time needed to
switch substrates efficiently. Then also, if the beer "just won't ferment
out", it isn't because of the 'excess' glucose, but instead may be
attributed to other factors, like the level of alcohol, the attenuation of
the yeast strain, or even wort fermentability (i.e. dextrins).
and in Digest #2046:
charles epp <cepp at indiana.edu> wrote:
>Several days ago at my favorite local pub, I got
>a pint that wasn't filled to the rim. It was significantly under...
[snip]
>In any case, I politely asked to have the pint topped off,
>which the bartender amicably did, and for which I thanked him. But my
>waitress then proceeded to lecture me on the cost of the brewpub's brewing
>...and that I shouldn't be so cheap. Suddenly my enjoyable ale went stale...
>My question is: at a pub, is it acceptable to ask that a less than full pint
be
>topped up? How many of you have been so...whatever?
I have and I don't think it's rude (or whatever) to ask for that which
you're paying! If you only paid them 3/4 of your bar bill, would they be
rude to ask you to pay your bill in full? Last night I ordered a local bock
(Otter Creek Spring Mud Bock) while having dinner in a restaurant. The
waitress brought me a very pale yellow beer with a thick white head which
smelled like an ale. I asked if it was the bock and she said it was. I told
her it didn't look or smell like a bock to me, so I SENT IT BACK! It turns
out they had just replaced the bock with the "Summer Wheat" (figures the
help wouldn't know the difference).The point is, if I'm paying for a beer, I
expect to get what I'm paying for, whether it's the particular beer I
ordered or the quantity. You were right to ask to have your beer topped off
and if I ever get such a lecture from a waitress, she gets no tip from me.
Tracy
Return to table of contents
From: Kirk Johnson <johnson at primenet.com>
Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 09:23:14 +0900
Subject: Re: All grain vs. Partial extract
>Are there any easy ways to brew all grain with out having to buy all
>of the equipment?
Somehow my original post got lost in the transition. This reply
is in response to a question of brewing all-grain for minimal dollars.
I made the jump to all grain for about $50 dollars. I have brewed 4
all grain batches to date. My extraction rate is on the low side at
27-28 pts*lbs/gal. My ability to brew specific styles has taken a
quantum leap and my all grain batches are the best I have made.
I have the grain crushed at my local homebrew store so I don't have
to buy a grain mill. I bought a 8 gallon enamal brew pot (slightly
dented) for $29.00. My 6.5 gallon bottling bucket has a 3/4" threaded
spigot; so I created a square manifold (with drilled holes in the
manifold sections) out of PVC for $5.00. I mash the grains in the brew
pot and sparge in my bottling bucket with manifold. I borrow my
neighbors cajun cooker to mash and boil the wort (if purchased it costs
about $39.00). You can do it on the stove, but it takes forever to
heat large volumes of water. When sparging, I heat the sparge water in
my brew pot and trasfer it to anouther bucket ($10 dollars) to free up
my brew pot for collecting the wort. Total cost was about $45 dollars
or $85 with the cajun cooker (I prefer the neighbor approach myself).
The manifold design was based upon an early post to the HBD a few years
ago. The design uses a 3/4" threaded to 3/4" smooth elbow, three 3/4"
smooth elbows, a 3/4" cap, and 4 sections of 3/4" PVC pipe. I took 3
sections of 3/4" PVC pipe (approx 4.5 inches each) and drilled three
rows of 7/32" holes in on the bottom of each piece. The section from
the spigot/threaded elbow to the first smooth elbow (approx 3.5 inches)
does not require holes. The manifold should sit snug in the bottom
of the bottling bucket. The PVC elbows keep the manifold sections about
a 1/8 inch off the bottom. Make sure the holes are facing down. Do
not glue the pieces together, they should fit together snug and are
very easy to clean after each batch by disassembling and reassembling
the manafold. Put together it looks like the diagram below.
|_| <-- 3/4" threaded spigot
|_| <-- 3/4" threaded to 3/4" smooth elbow
|____
| |
| | <-- 3 elbows + 1 cap + 4 sections of 3/4" pipe
| |
|________|
I hope this helps in your quest for all grain brewing on a budget. All grain
brewing takes me about 5 hours compared to 2 hours for extract, but the beer
is much better. Have fun.
Kirk Johnson
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From: "Gene R. Rankin" <grankin at itis.com>
Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 12:19:59 -0600
Subject: Pub etiquette
Chuck digitized, on asking to have his pint topped up, that the
bartender was civil:
>[snip] But my waitress then proceeded to lecture me on the cost of
>the brewpub's brewing equipment and on the fact that they'd done
>market research and had determined that $3 for a pint was perfectly
>acceptable, and that I shouldn't be so cheap. Suddenly my enjoyable
>ale went stale,
>[snip]
Yr. waitress must have been having a seriously bad day - which is no
excuse whatever for so crappy an attitude. Yes, the equipment was
(is) expensive. Yes, they'd done market research. Yes, their
researcher told 'em $3/pint was "perfectly acceptable." How nice.
How would she have responded when told by their raw materials source
that their grain bags were only partly full because their equipment was so
expensive etc. etc.? How would you have responded when your new
Chevrolet lacked its spare tire & they told you how expensive THEIR
equipment was, & etc.?
Ask her next time (assuming there's a next time), in your best "Mr.
Roger's Neighborhood" voice "Can you spell 'value for money?'" or
"Can you spell 'good business sense?'" Short-counting the customer
is decidely BAD pub etiquette, and you were (in my view) neither rude
nor tactless. (If they'd have tried that on in some of the pubs I
went to in Deepest Yorkshire, there'd have been a brawl!)
Best,
- -----
Gene R. Rankin / grankin at itis.com
Laser #12571 / '78 Darmah SD900 / DIOC,DOCC,DOGB,DoD#1881
"Don't ask me nothin' about nothin'; I just might tell you the truth." Bob
Dylan
Return to table of contents
From: charles epp <cepp at indiana.edu>
Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 12:23:39 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: pub etiquette/pint glasses
Many thanks to everybody who replied by private email about the propriety
of asking to have one's beer glass topped off when it's served less than
full. The unanimous view is that this is perfectly acceptable and,
moreover, (several said) the right thing to do. I appreciated all of the
comments.
On a related note, whatever happened to the speculation not long ago that
government regulators were looking into the fairly common practice of
calling 14-oz beer glasses "pints"? Was this something that was
happening only at the local or state level, depending on the policy
commitments of the weights and measures folks?
Chuck
Return to table of contents
From: "Steven W. Smith" <SYSSWS at gc.maricopa.edu>
Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 19:16:20 -0700 (MST)
Subject: The _right_ way to use The Carbonator ;-)
Bienvenidos, zymur-folk! Took me *forever* to catch up on HBDs after that
vacation... I was going to start with "maybe this will work for you",
but (in honor of Jack's return ;-) I've decided instead to announce:
The Best Way to Keep your Friends Feelthy Mitts Offa Yer Carbonator(TM) Yet
Share Beer.*
This is in reply to Art McGregor's post of April 9th or thereabouts.
Paraphrasing: "Carbonators are expensive and I don't wanna give 'em out to
my friends. What to do???".
After pressurizing the bottle, you refrigerate it to help the CO2 go into
solution, and you shake the bottle occasionally (nothing new so far, eh?).
Once it's "fully carbonated" shake the bottle again to get a good head of
foam at the top and transfer the bottle to the *freezer*.
It may take a re-shake or two but in short order, with minimal effort
(a recurring theme with my brewing tips) you'll have a plug of frozen
foam at the top of the bottle.
Pray to your fave deity, then quickly unscrew the Carbonator and replace
it with the original plastic cap. Now you're ready to go on the road with
fully-disposable-beer-gear.
I'll now vanish silently into the ether; hope that helps someone.
* I tried sending a similar message awhile back, but it, er, vanished or
something... Not even a bounce message. If this is an annoying repeat, tweaked
individuals may sue me for recovery of the wasted bandwidth.
_,_/| Steven W. Smith
\o.O; Systems Programmer, but not a Licensed Therapist
=(___)= Glendale Community College. Glendale Az.
U syssws at gc.maricopa.edu or smith at peabody.gc.maricopa.edu
End procrastination tomorrow, ask me how!
Return to table of contents
From: Frederick Tremblay <tremfre at CAM.ORG>
Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 23:08:32 -0500
Subject: homebrew programs - BiereMAG
hi everybody,
i'd like to know if you know some interesting homebrew programs that can
run either on pc's or mac's (and where i can find them),
i'm writing an article on the subject for the next edition of bieremag,
a french (well... quebecois but published in french) magazine about
"biere".
i already have some programs, but i'm still looking for THE ultimate
program. so if you know one, please tell me by e-mail at:
fred at bieremag.ca
By the way, for those of you who may be interested, BiereMAG has it's
own web page at :
http://www.bieremag.ca
ok, thanks in advance,
cheers
fred
- - --
_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/
_/_/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/_/ Frederick Tremblay
_/ _/ Fred at BiereMag.ca
_/ _/
_/_/_/_/ _/ "Toute verite n'est pas bonne a dire,
_/ _/ l'important consiste a ne jamais dire
_/ _/ le contraire de ce que l'on pense."
_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/
Return to table of contents
From: "Michael T. Bell" <mikeb at flash.net>
Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 23:35:17 -0500
Subject: Propane burners
> Does anyone have a favorite burner that they like that can handle a more
> reasonable load?
>
> Thanks,
> - -Dan
I love my Bayou Cooker. Brings 5 gal. of wort to a boil in less than 10 min.
Only problem is that it LOVES propane. I use one cooker to heat water and
mash so I probably only get ~2.5 batches per 5 gal. of propane.
- - --
- - -mtb
beer is good food
Michael T. Bell
E- mail: mikeb at flash.net
Home: 817.468.8849
Fax: 817.468.7121
Return to table of contents
From: "Michael T. Bell" <mikeb at flash.net>
Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 00:14:23 -0500
Subject: Grain age
I need to know how long cruched grain will last in sealed, O2 barrier bags. I
have ~50 lbs that I have not been able to get to in about 2 months. The
bossman has been keeping the shackles on tight.
- - -mtb
beer is good food
Michael T. Bell
E- mail: mikeb at flash.net
Home: 817.468.8849
Fax: 817.468.7121
Return to table of contents
From: "Gregory, Guy J." <GGRE461 at eroerm1.ecy.wa.gov>
Date: Fri, 24 May 96 08:59:00 PDT
Subject: rye, propane, and etc.
Bryan L. Gros asks in HBD 2044:
>About rye, is the stuff generally sold in brewing supply stores malted rye
> or unmalted rye? Or does it depend? I assume rye flakes are unmalted.
I don't know about generally, but my local brewshop has malted rye. It's
quality and consistency is not what I have grown to be accustomed for
barley, but, it still seems to work. Rye flakes are not malted, but the
flaking process does pre-treat the grain, just like rice and wheat.
Dan Aldrich asks in HBD 2045:
>I've been looking around for a propane cooker and finally my wife bought me
>one(lucky guy). When I read the instructions, it said the weight limit for
>the cooker was only 50lbs, not much weight at all by brewing standards.
This
>isn't a small unit either; 170,000btu. Does anyone have a favorite burner
that they like that can handle a >more reasonable load?
I got mine from Cablelas. The offical propane cooker of NASCAR. Hushpuppie
heaven. Had a picture of Cale Yarborough on the box. It said it could only
handle 50 lbs. I haven't had any problems brewing 5 gallon batches. Relax.
On the recent thread re: advertising
I disagreed with Al K. regarding a proposal to exclude postings by
non-subscribers. Many sent cogent emails defending the proposal. I've
consequently reconsidered, and recognize that the day may come when
subscribers only may post to exclude the mannerless freaks of electronic
shotgun advertising. I'll be sorry for us when that happens. Thanks for
the email.
GuyG4 at aol.com
Return to table of contents
From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com>
Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 13:36:11 -0500
Subject: Re: Hmmmmm! Grain Mills?
> Originally-From: Scott Abene <skotrat at wwa.com>
> Subject: Hmmmmm! Grain Mills?
> Does anyone here have an opinion on a good grain mill to buy?
Well, I use a JSP MaltMill. While I do think it's a high quality product,
if I was in the market for one now, I don't think I'd buy one, because
frankly the guy uses too damned much bandwidth here. (I have, in fact,
been in private e-mail with someone in the market for a new grain mill who
has decided not to purchase a JSP because of Jack's posting habits. I
encouraged him to post this valuable information, but I don't think he has.)
Jack, babe, give it a rest. Take it to private e-mail. Your mill works
great. Now leave some bandwidth for the rest of us to talk about brewing.
> How bout my coffee grinder? Is this a good way to mill my grain?
Only if you plan to make coffee with it. (actually, we've mixed a little
chocolate malt in with our regular coffee, and it was great.)
> Anybody here make their own mills and sell them?
I have recently produced the RMP MaltMill, which is just two rolling pins
and some string, but they're at a 16% angle, or something like that, so it
should work okay.
- -Russell Mast
copyright 1996 Holger Czukay
Return to table of contents
From: mglinski at gnn.com (Michael Glinski)
Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 14:39:55
Subject: not receiving Digest
I have not received any issues of the Homebrew Digest this week.
Is there some problem?
Mike Glinski
mglinski at gnn.com
mglinski at gnn.com
Return to table of contents
From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com>
Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 13:45:17 -0500
Subject: re: pub etiquette
> >Charles Epp wrote: I got a pint that wasn't filled to the rim. It was
> significantly under. I politely asked to have the pint topped off. But my
> waitress then proceeded to lecture me on the cost of the brewpub's brewing
> equipment and on the fact that they'd done market research and had
> determined that $3 for a pint was perfectly acceptable, and that I shouldn't
> be so cheap. My question is: at a pub, is it acceptable to ask that a less
> than full pint be topped up?
Regardless of whether it's appropriate to ask to have your pint topped off,
is was -not- at all appropriate for her to lecture you about -anything-. If
you had insisted that she serve you beer in a salt-rimmed glass with a little
pink umbrella in it, that's how she should serve you. Proper ettiquette when
faced with self-righteous waitstaff is to simply leave the establishment
immediately. Get up and leave. Don't finish, don't pay.
The kicker is using "market research" to justify anything. Market research is
supposed to tell THEM what YOU think, not vice versa. You -are- the market.
- -R
Return to table of contents
From: Larry Calcaterra <calcawuj at CompNetServ.com>
Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 02:49:50 -0700
Subject: CaCl source & Poor Hot Break
Searching for a source for Calcium Chloride.
With the assistance of Brewing Water Treatment Calc.[thanks Ken Schwartz
(kennyeddy at aol.com] I have started
tweaking\playing with H20. My water supply (Detroit) analysis: Ca 27, SO4 16,
Mg 7, Na 5, Cl 8, CO3 75,
Hrdns 99. To get fairly close to Mosher's Ideal Pale Ale target water I would
have to add: 5.9g Epson Salt, 1.6
Kosher salt, 2.7g calcium chloride, and 26.68 GRAMS of GYPSUM. That seems like
a lot of gypsom. Doesn't it?
The treatment is for 13.5 gallons of water.
One of my reasons for my interest in adjusting my water is the fact that I am
getting little if ANY Hot break.
I do a single infusion in a 10 Gallon Gott Mash\lauter tun for ~90 minutes and
sparge with 5.7 PH sparge water.
My mash PH is typically from 5.1-5.4. My PH in the Kettle is ~5.5 preboil and
5.2 post boil. Everything seems
to be "on target". Is it the lack of Ca that is the culprit or an I looking
down the wrong road. I use "fully
modified" pale ale malts either DeWolf-Cosyns or Biard in the brewing of all
my ales.
TIA
Larry
Return to table of contents
From: shawn at aob.org (Shawn Steele)
Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 13:07:06 -0600
Subject: The Move
The computer bugs that plagued the HBD earlier this week have been
corrected and the HBD should be more regular soon. If you are missing
issues, they are available from ftp.stanford.edu and by e-mail from
majordomo at aob.org by including the following at the start of your
message to majordomo at aob.org:
get homebrew n2042
get homebrew n2043
get homebrew n2044
get homebrew n2045
end
(You may substitute other numbers as appropriate for the digest
number.) There seems to be a backlog of requests due to this mixup, so
the digest may be sent more often than normal for a few days.
The HBD is also resent by several other mailing lists, some of which
may not yet be configured to accept mail from the new address. Those
list owners are working on updating their aliases as soon as they can.
- - shawn
Shawn Steele
shawn at aob.org
Digest Janitor
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