---

   FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
        Shawn Steele, Digest Janitor
        Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!

Contents:
  Oops, #2047 doesn't exist. (shawn at aob.org (Shawn Steele))
  Sweet Gale seeds and more Chicago beer info. (tfwmsi at mcs.com (Tim Wauters))
  The Fat Finger Dost Striketh! ("Pat Babcock")
  any ideas? ("FINLEY, BARRY CURTIS")
  Attenuation or Loss of Mass? (Steve Alexander)
  Silly yeast (Bourdouxhe Jacques)
  Yer Water (KennyEddy at aol.com)
  CaCl Source (KennyEddy at aol.com)
  Missing something? (STRESSED-man)
  Re: pub etiquette ("Robert Marshall")

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: shawn at aob.org (Shawn Steele)
Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 13:13:32 -0600
Subject: Oops, #2047 doesn't exist.

Oops, I made the computer count incorrectly for a moment.  There is no
digest #2047 and there will not be one.

- - shawn
Digest Janitor

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From: tfwmsi at mcs.com (Tim Wauters)
Date: Fri, 24 May 96 14:59 CDT
Subject: Sweet Gale seeds and more Chicago beer info.

In HBD #2042 Erik Roennqvist asks
> Only problem is, what is 'sweet gale seeds'???????????
According to A Modern Herbal, by Mrs. M. Grieve, (c.1931, 1971, Dover
Publications, New York, ISBN 0-486-22798-7), Sweet gale is know as Myrica
Gale (Linn.) and other synonyms are Bayberry, English Bog Myrtle and Herba
Myrti Rabanitini.
Habitat: Higher latitudes of N. Hemisphere; Great Britain, especially in
the north; abundant on the Scottish moors and bogs.
Description: A deciduous, bushy shrub, growing to 4ft. high. Leaves are
oblanceolate tapering entirely at the base, toothed and broadest at the
apex, kind of like a willow.  The fruit catkins are closley set, resinous
nutlets. The branches have been used as a substitute for hops in Yorkshire
and put into a beer called Gale Beer. The bark is used in Sweden and Wales
to tan calfskins and for dying wool yellow.

I have been interested in the Rajotte recipe myself but have yet to give it
a try.  I've seen bog myrtle at health food stores and at drug stores that
carry homeopathic ingredients.  I think that purchasing just the seeds may
prove difficult so be prepared to buy a combination of leaves, seeds and
twigs and sort them by hand. If any other HBD'ers have come across the
seeds only, please post so we know of a source.  Sorry for the following
Chicago info. Erik, I'm just too lazy to do two posts today but maybe
you'll make it to Chicago someday.

Thanks to Russell Mast for providing additional Chicago beer locations. He
mentioned two of my favorites:

Augenblick on N. Damen, 1 block S. of Irving Park road in North Center. 
They heve a nice selection on tap that included Dry-hopped Rouge red and
Goose Island Demolition Ale to name a couple.

Hop Leaf: N. Clark 1/4 block S. of Foster in Andersonville.  This is a
small (sometimes too smoky!) place that has an incredible selection of tap
and bottled beers. Super fresh Celis White, Big Shoulders Porter,
Demolition Ale and Pilsner Urquell to mention a few, were on tap during my
last visit.

Also worth checking out:

Quenchers: corner of Western and Fullerton, Logan Square.  They usually
have a good tap selection and they have hundreds of bottles to choose from.

Resi's Bierstube:  W. Irving Park Road, 1-2 blocks W. of Damen:  This place
is mostly for German beer lovers since this is what they feature on tap. 
They also have a decent selection of bottles and good food to boot. This is
a small place, but who can resist a 70 or 80 year old barmaid who's more
than happy to tip a few with you! 

Happy Drinking,

                                                Tim Wauters 



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From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock at oeonline.com>
Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 15:27:30 +0500
Subject: The Fat Finger Dost Striketh!

Pardon this brief waste of bandwidth:

Anyone who sent me mail Friday, 5/24/96, please resend. Due to a
(my) screw up, I lost all new mail Friday afternoon. Amongst these
was an 'ad' for the HomeBrew Flea Market and a post/correction to the
Supplier Registry.

(Not you, Russell. I managed to read yours before obiterating my in
box. 'Course, you know that...)

Beware the fat finger...

Copyright 1996 Smuckers, all rights smothered in preserves

See ya!

Pat Babcock in Canton, Michigan (Western Suburb of Detroit)
pbabcock at oeonline.com  URL: http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/
Visit the HomeBrew Flea Market via my homepage!
URL: http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/


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From: "FINLEY, BARRY CURTIS" <BFINLEY at MUSIC.CC.UGA.EDU>
Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 17:10:02 EDT
Subject: any ideas?

Hello fellow brewers,
I have an idea for an Australian Lager, but I am quite hesitant to try
it out. I relly want to try this as my first partial mash, but I wanted
to get some input before I venture into this. Since this is my own
receipe and since I've never never brewed anything other than extract,
maybe you can see why I'd like some help with this. these are the
extract ingredients that I have come up with.
6 lbs. Light (or extra light) DME.
No idea what type of hops or amount (maybe 1 oz. of sticklebract?)
1/2 oz. Cascade (finishing)
1.5 lbs. clover honey
Lager yeast (which strain?)

Can someone help me  convert this to partial mash? Or maybe give
me some ideas for doing this as a full extract brew. Should I use some
crystal malt for body? Any help with this is greatly appreciated. I
would also like any receipes for Australian Lager similar to Fosters.
I do not have the necessary equipment to do all grain, so please keep
this in mind.
Thanks for your help.
Barry Finley

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From: Steve Alexander <stevea at clv.mcd.mot.com>
Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 15:56:13 -0400
Subject: Attenuation or Loss of Mass?

Michael Higuchi asks ...

>How much of the apparent attenuation in a fermenting wort is
>actually due to alcohol production, and how much can be
>attributed to production of bio-mass (dead yeast) (and also mass
>loss through CO2 evolution)? 
...
> ... CO2 production from a
>vigorous ferment is not exactly trivial, although I wouldn't
>imagine that a lot of _mass_ gets lost.

Actually very nearly half the fermentable sugar mass is
released as CO2, the other half becomes ethanol.

For the simple Glucose case

	Glucose        Hydrogen  Ethanol      CarbonDioxide
	1(C6.H11.O6) + H     ==> 2(C2.H6.O) +  2(C.O2)

since the atomic weights are roughly C=12, O=16, H=1 the masses of the
various components of the fermentation are:

	1(179 gm) + 1gm      ==> 2(46gm) + 2(44gm)
or
	179 gm +    1gm      ==> 92 gm   + 88 gm

so about 51.4% of the glucose mass becomes ethanol and
         49.2% of the glucose mass is released as CO2.

The apparent attenuation issue is complicated by non-linearity in the
density of ethanol+water solutions and I'm not prepared to explain
that.   The CO2 release above, I believe, accounts for virtually all
of the reduction in mass of the fermenting wort, however be aware that
only 2/3rd or so of wort solids are fermentable carbs, and the
definition of fermentable is dependent on the yeast strain.

As you surmise the heavier-than-beer yeast cake must of necessity
reduce the overall specific gravity, but I suspect that the effect is
a very minor one compared with the 1.7 pounds of CO2 released from a
5 gallon batch of normal strength beer.  It could be estimated from a
measurement of the yeast cake density in excess of the beer density
(FG).

Steve Alexander

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From: Bourdouxhe Jacques <bourdouj at ERE.UMontreal.CA>
Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 15:53:49 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Silly yeast

Hi everyone,
I would like to know if the following Belgian beers use the
same yeast for the primary fermentation AND for the fermentation 
in the bottle ?
1) SAISON REGAL
2) SAISON SILLY

Thank in advance for the info.
Any e-mail is welcome
I will post the answers I receive

Jacques Bourdouxhe
Universite de Montreal
bourdouj at ERE.UMontreal.CA


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From: KennyEddy at aol.com
Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 17:55:56 -0400
Subject: Yer Water

Laryy Calcaterra asks:

>To get fairly close to Mosher's Ideal Pale Ale target water I would have to
add: 5.9g >Epson Salt, 1.6 Kosher salt, 2.7g calcium chloride, and 26.68
GRAMS of GYPSUM. >That seems like a lot of gypsom. Doesn't it? The treatment
is for 13.5 gallons of water. 

Sounds like a lot, doesn't it?  In 5 gal of RO water I have to add 9 grams,
so you're in the same ballpark (considering you're starting with a little
SO4).  This pale ale water is VERY suplhate-ic.

BTW my experience with this treatment is that the beer needs a bit of time to
smooth; the loudness of the SO4 dims & mellows considerably within a couple
weeks.  The bitterness is pronounced but clean and crisp.  I think you'll
enjoy it, but do let it mature.

At 27 ppm calcium you're probably scraping bottom for optimum acidification,
but you should be OK.  How much calcium is left over to help with the break
is perhaps something to ponder (briefly), but it's only part of the picture.

Ken Schwartz
KennyEddy at aol.com
http://users.aol.com/kennyeddy


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From: KennyEddy at aol.com
Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 18:00:59 -0400
Subject: CaCl Source

Larry Calcaterra also asked (in his "Subject:" line) about sources for
calcium chloride (CaCl2).

I found some at HopTech (1-800-DRYHOPS), $2 for 2 oz (56 grams).  After
messing with creating different water profiles I fond it to be *essential*
for emulating many waters.

Ken Schwartz
KennyEddy at aol.com
http://users.aol.com/kennyeddy

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From: STRESSED-man <woodstok at rupert.oscs.montana.edu>
Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 17:33:58 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Missing something?

Mike,

In my humble opinion you actually did miss something.  In your 3 point
plan for the imersion chiller you examined one part without including the
other two.  So in effect you set yourself up for an incorrect conclusion.

If you have the cold water input starting at the top and working down then
you MAY eventually have a circumstance where the heated water INSIDE the
chiller may be able to warm the cool wort at the bottom of the boiling
pot.  But this is ONLY a feasable possibility if the wort is NOT stirred,
which is point two.  You can't just read step one and then ignore the
rest - stirring will effectively eliminate this problem.  I know, it works
for me! :)

Besides, if you take a look at your physical chemistry you'll see that a
system's entropy will ALWAYS increase.  So even if the wort didn't move a
bit and you ran cold water from top to bottom you would eventually cool
the wort... it just might take a little longer than usual. 

Dave

Life's a beer,
Brew it up...


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From: "Robert Marshall" <robertjm at hooked.net>
Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 18:00:37 +0000
Subject: Re: pub etiquette

Someone wrote:

>...Several days ago at my favorite local pub, I got a pint that wasn't filled 
to the rim. It was
>significantly under...I politely asked to have the pint topped off, which the 
bartender amicably did,
>and for which I thanked him.  But my waitress then proceeded to
>lecture me on the cost of the brewpub's brewing equipment and on the
>fact that they'd done market research and had determined that $3 for a
>pint was perfectly acceptable, and that I shouldn't be so cheap...

You were certainly within you rights to ask that it be topped off. 
Frankly speaking, $3 isn't too much to ask for a pint...A FULL  PINT.

A related incident comes to mind...

I stopped by a local pub on the way home from a hockey game. I wan't 
sure that they would be open but figured what the heck. The lights 
were on, the door was unlocked and people were eating. I walked in 
and the waitress immediately yelled, "We're closed!!" I apologized and 
asked her what time they closed. Her response really bothered me.

"Well, we normally close at 11 p.m., but everyone was done drinking 
so we closed." (It was only 10:15 p.m.) I haven't bothered to go back 
to this place because of that. I can understand a kitchen that 
normally closes an hour before the doors shut, but the taps???


Later,

Robert Marshall
robertjm at hooked.net

homepage: http://www.hooked.net/users/robertjm
- ----------------------------------------------
"In Belgium, the magistrate has the dignity
of a prince, but by Bacchus, it is true
that the brewer is king."

          Emile Verhaeren (1855-1916)
          Flemish writer
- ------------------------------------------------

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