---

   FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
        Shawn Steele, Digest Janitor
        Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!

Contents:
  Party Pigs (Schwab_Bryan at CCMAIL.ncsc.navy.mil)
  Yeastlab yeast (DONBREW at aol.com)
  [none] ((SPEAKER.CURTIS))
  Wit beer help (Mark Redman)
  Freezer vs Refridgerator (Michael Caprara)
  Guinness Shakes (talcottk at PENNIE.COM)
  Drilling Freezers / Yucky Water / Slow Bubbles (KennyEddy at aol.com)
  Oops (Pierre Jelenc)
  magical carbonation! ("Brian P. Colgan")
  Longshot American Pale Ale Recipe (Dave Greenlee)
  Freezers and Explosive Fermentation... (Maxwell McDaniel)
  Temp Controller Summary (Mike_Bell at ccmail.va.grci.com)
  Re: Wit beer help (RUSt1d?)
  Lactic Acid Fermentation (Bill Ballhorn)
  Sufur dioxide and metabisulfites (STROUDS at cliffy.polaroid.com)
  Blueberries for John Varady (Douglas Thomas)
  Questions to improve my beer (what else?) (AJN)
  Beer in Space ("Dave Hinkle")
  Beer Desserts ("Rich Byrnes")
  Glucose priming/Candi Sugar/corn sugar/stuck ferments/seeded hops/carbonation (korz at pubs.ih.lucent.com)
  Open Fermentation ((Richard F. Ransom))

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Schwab_Bryan at CCMAIL.ncsc.navy.mil
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 96 07:19:02 CDT
Subject: Party Pigs

     Greetings, Carl Hattenburg wanted to know if anyone had experience
     with either the 2 1/4 gallon Party Pigs, or the Medicine Rock Keg
     Systems.  Well I have 2 Party Pigs currently and have experienced both
     good and bad with them.
     First off, they do not require CO2, they incorporate the use of some
     chemically treated bag and a Air pump.
     You have to be careful to properly secure the locking ring to the
     dispensing nozzle or you will experience numerous leaks.( beer becomes
     flat)
     When you air prime the Pig, you have to pump the damn thing at least
     17-20 times, then push in the dispensing nozzle to release back
     pressure, then repeat the process over and over again until the
     treated bag begins to inflate and beer starts to drip from the nozzle.

     What I have found out over the past two years with these things is
     that for short term storage ( like a party ) they're great, for long
     term storage, I rather use my Coke kegs.
     Would I purchase any more, probably not.  While in the fridge, one
     must keep something under the nozzle to collect the constant dripping
     these things do after one dispenses the beer ( different from my Coke
     keg nozzle) the dispensing nozzle needs to be replaced frequently and
     the bags cost anywhere from 3.95 -4.95 a pop!

     Basically, for me, it was a nice intro into kegging, but as with
     anything, over time you learn from your mistakes, and of better ways
     to do things, and of better equipment thats out there to do the job!

     Good Luck, hope this helped

     Bryan


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From: DONBREW at aol.com
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 08:54:29 -0400
Subject: Yeastlab yeast

Hi All,
   I have a 10 gal. batch of brew going that I used a packet of Yeastlab
Australian Ale yeast in each carboys.  First problem was fermentation would
not get started below 72F, this was troublesome because for the first 2 days
I had the chamber set at 68F it did finally get a good krausen going after I
turned it up.  Next, It is still fermenting after 9 days at 68F and the brew
is turning a ghastly orange color that I have associated with infected
batches in the past, and it sure is throwing out some "yeasty" stink (not
neccesarily bad stink tho).
   Does this yeast behave this way normally?  Does it actually do better
above 70F?

TIA,
Don
Falls Church, Va.
donbrew at aol.com

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From: CSS2 at oas.psu.edu (SPEAKER.CURTIS)
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 08:54 EDT
Subject: [none]

From: CSS2 at oas.psu.edu     (SPEAKER.CURTIS)
Subject: Kwak ?/Miller/lagering

I have become a big fan of Kwak (from Beglium).  In Michael Jacksons book, a
picture is shown of a dark brown beer in what looks like a quarter yard glass;
the only Kwak that I have ever had is orange/copper in color...is there a Kwak
dark that can only be obtained in Belgium?  Al?  Jim Busch?

Miller's statement on the "heart of the hops" sounds suspiciously to me like
they are talking about making hop extract and adding it to their beer...I
wonder if it is possible to extract only the volatiles (for aroma) and leave
out the bitter components.  Is there a flavor chemist in the house?

And for those of you who are just starting to experiment with lagers, the
biggest key is TIME (sorta like making mead).  For my first few lagers, I
thought that 2-3 weeks was sufficient time to lager the beer before bottling.
My last batch lagered for 52 days, and the benefits were much more obvious; a
smoother, less estery beer that showed off the (Saaz) hop character more.  So
avoid the desire to bottle too early - you will be rewarded.  Forget you even
heard the word autolysis! :-)

Happy in Happy Valley
Curt

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From: Mark Redman <brewman at vivid.net>
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 09:36:07 -0400
Subject: Wit beer help

I plan on brewing a Belgian Wit soon using the following recipe,
based on back issues of Zymurgy and Brewing Techniques:

5 lbs Belgian 2-row pale malt
4.75 lbs flaked wheat
1/2 oz. dried Curacao orange peel (20 min. boil)
1 oz. ground coriander (5 min. boil)
1 oz. 4.8% AAU Hallertau tradition hops (75 min boil)
1 pint yeast starter, Wyeast #3944, Belgian white.

30 min. protein rest  at 122 degrees F, 75 min sach rest  at 150 degrees,
10 min. mash-out at 168 degrees. Although my preboil effeciency is
around 85%, it drops to around 70% after racking the wort off the
troob, so I'm shooting for an original gravity of about 1.048 to 1.050.
I calculate my IBU's at about 18.

My questions to the collective masses:

1) What is a good mail order source for dried Curacao peel?
2) Has anybody used both flaked wheat and regular unmalted wheat?
   Is there much difference? I've heard unmalted wheat is a royal
   PITA to work with, but I want to keep this authentic since it
   is going into a competition. Should I stick with the flaked
   wheat or use milled unmalted?
3) Does the amount and boil time for the orange peel look O.K.? I've
   brewed using coriander before, and a 5 min. boil of 1 oz. gave
   me good results, so I'll probably stick to that, but I have never
   used Curacao.
4) Any other comments or suggestions from those who have succesfully
   (or unsuccesfully, hehe) brewed a Belgian Wit would be greatly
   appreciated.

Thanx, Mark Redman (brewman at vivid.net)


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From: Michael Caprara <mcaprara at awwarf.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 08:05:27 -0600
Subject: Freezer vs Refridgerator

Maxwell McDaniel <maxwellm at microsoft.com> wrote:
Subject: Refrigerators vs. Chest Freezers for Kegging

Greetings all

The Decision:
I have decided that my fridge is just too small to keep my 5 gallon
Corny kegs in anymore and intend to purchase a used fridge or freezer
to keep my beer in and to lager.

The Questions:
Which is better, refrigerator or freezer?  And if it's a freezer, do I go for
upright of the other kind (coffin style)?

Can anyone give me guidance on how to hook up taps and CO2 lines
without disturbing any freon coils?

Maxwell,
Pros and cons of fridge vs freezer.

- -A coffin style freezer holds more kegs.
- -You need a temp controller for a freezer (you should use one for a
fridge, but can get by without it)
- -I have heard that a temp control on a freezer will wear the compressor
out faster.  It comes on and works real hard to get to freezing and then is
shut off when it gets to 40 degrees (or whatever the thermostat is set
to).  This cycling will shorten the life of the compressor.
- -Free fridges are much easier to find than free freezers (I have 3 fridges
and 0 freezers!)

Hooking up lines

- -On a fridge, run the liquid out the front door (no freon lines) I think (don't

quote me, cause I be a enginurd and not an HVAC specialist) there are
no freon lines in the side so you can drill for a CO2 line.

- -On a freezer.  A friend of mine runs his liquid out the top (no drilling)  He
cut the seal a little to allow for beer lines.  He does the same with the gas
line.

My Opinion

- -For serving keg beer, a fridge is the best.  Personally, I don't run CO2
into the fridge, I just charge the kegs when the flow gets low.  I have had
too many friends find out that their CO2 tank is empty because of a loose
fitting somewhere.

- -For lagering, I feel a coffin style freezer is best.  No lines in and out.
Just make sure a carboy and keg will fit upright WITH an airlock.  You
can lager more beer at one time if you lager in kegs!

Good Luck

Michael  :{P}   <--8 more hours till I can pull a fresh, cold, draft homebrew




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From: talcottk at PENNIE.COM
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 10:08:48 -0500
Subject: Guinness Shakes

In HBD 2106, Kurt Schilling offers a recipe for a Guinness shake.
FYI, Guinness-flavored ice cream has long been a Caribbean island
treat.  It really is quite good, and should be available in the
U.S. in areas where there are significant populations of
Caribbean immigrants.  I've had mine at Caribbean festivals in
Brooklyn, New York, and I think it's available in some of the
local groceries there.

Kelly D. Talcott
talcottk at pennie.com

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From: KennyEddy at aol.com
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 10:33:58 -0400
Subject: Drilling Freezers / Yucky Water / Slow Bubbles

Maxwell McDaniel asked:

<<
Can anyone give me guidance on how to hook up taps and CO2 lines without
disturbing any freon coils?
>>

Most responses to this question (for chest freezers anyhow) involve removing
the lid, building a wooden "collar" to "raise" the lid, then attaching the
collar to the freezer and the lid to the collar.  You then drill through the
wood rather than through the freezer.

I suppose you could do the same thing with a fridge; you'll need about five
hands to install it though, I suppose.

I haven't tried this myself, but I'll offer another thought as a suggestion.
 If you can cut the side segments of the collar at an angle, so your collar
is actually a "wedge", you could simply cram it under the lid without having
to remove the lid at all.  The front of the collar would be a full-width
piece of wood (2x4?), allowing drilling for tap access or whatever.  The side
pieces would slope to a point at the rear.  The very rear edge could be just
foam insulating tape or a thin slab of wood.  Instead of 2x4's, consider 1/2"
or 3/4" plywood (easier to cut than 2x4; use a sabre saw or hand saw), and
line it with 1" insulating foam.

***********

Jim Murphy asks about his water.

With 63 ppm Mg it's not surprising that his water tastes awful!  I bet his
beer suffers from it too.  The fairly steep sodium is not helping either.
 And the 350 ppm alkalinity will positively harshen the brew.  Bag the tap
water and shell out the lousy 35 cents a gallon for RO.  You can bring your
carboy to the water shop for filling, where it's cheaper and more
environmentally-friendly than buying individual gallon containers.

***********

Ron asks:

<<
Anyway, its been
24 hours and the airlock is just barely bubbling.  Normally, at room temp
(my room temp of 85) it would be bubbling like crazy.
>>

Yeast will work Harder!/Faster! at higher temperatures, and, conversely,
slower at lower temps.   You're not seeing anything unusual, just arguably
"more correct" activity, since you're closer to the "ideal" temperature range
for this yeast.  Hyperactive yeast tend to "sweat" in your beer, leaving
off-tastes and aromas associated with high fermentation temperatures.  Try
your best to work within the recommended temperature range.

**********

Ken Schwartz
KennyEddy at aol.com
http://users.aol.com/kennyeddy


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From: Pierre Jelenc <pcj1 at columbia.edu>
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 96 10:52:18 EDT
Subject: Oops

I said:

> These dipeptides (about 100 aminoacids) are intensely sweet

I meant "these peptide dimers (each about 50 aminoacids) ..."


Pierre

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From: "Brian P. Colgan" <bcolgan at sungard.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 96 11:20:32 EST
Subject: magical carbonation!

bpc 16jul:

Gregory King write:
>>
Greetings HBDers,

There is some interesting stuff in the book "Brew Your Own Real Ale at
Home"
by Wheeler and Protz besides all of the British ale recipes.
..
..
..

The authors also state that although priming the ale prior to bottling will

produce carbonation quickly, it is not necessary(!), as CO2 will be
produced by the slow fermentation of the residual dextrins in the ale over
a several-month period.

I'm wondering if any of you have had the patience to try bottling without
priming, and then waiting for this (magical?) carbonation.
<<

This did happen to me, quite recently. For Father's Day 1995 I received an
immersion chiller.  I then used it to chill a weisen shortly thereafter,
forgetting to check that the hose connections were tight. I proceeded to
leak water from my garden hose into the cooling wort.  I fermented anyway,
and you kind readers may remember my cautionary tale about my 'Schwampen
Schtinken Weisen' that I wound up dumping.  HOWEVER, I did save some in a
Grolsch bottle as an example of an infected batch.  It sat in my fridge for
about 8 months, till I decided to taste is prior to this year's AHA
national competition.  Lo and BEHOLD!  Not only was it a very delicious
weisen, but it had the most exquisite, creamy carbonation that I had ever
seen.

slainthe.

brian


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From: Dave Greenlee <daveg at mail.airmail.net>
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 10:32:27 -0500
Subject: Longshot American Pale Ale Recipe

Anyone interested in cloning Longshot American Pale Ale can find Jim
Simpson's original recipe in the February, 96, newsletter of the Malted
Barley Appreciation Society at

http://www.nycbeer.org/mbas/0296.html

along with his summary of what Boston Beer did to change his original
brew to the commercial product.  In the March, 96, edition of that
newsletter at

http://www.nycbeer.org/mbas/0296.html

Mr. Simpson is the club's guest speaker (he's also their past president
and founder) and brings both brews to the meeting for head-to-head
tasting.  The BBC's version is described as "nice," but Jim's original
homebrew is described as "exciting."

Nazdrowie,
Dave

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From: Maxwell McDaniel <maxwellm at microsoft.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 08:48:53 -0700
Subject: Freezers and Explosive Fermentation...

Thanks for everyone who responded about freezers for storing beer in.
The consensus was that a freezer was the way to go...  The question I
have now is: Are there any pictures or drawings of these collars or
setups that have been completed on web pages or books?  I'm going to go
this route and before I just start using my imagination, I'd like to see
something to go by.

Next question:
I get a call at the office yesterday from the little woman who says " I
think there is something wrong with the beer you brewed yesterday."
Scared, I reply "Wrong? What do you mean, WRONG??"  "It's coming out the
sides of the fermenter" she replies. "The SIDES?!?"  "Yes, the sides..."
 I told her to move it from the garage to the shower in the spare bath
and to please clean up anything spilled.  When I got home and took a
look at the fermenter I couldn't believe what I was seeing.  The 6.5
gallon plastic bucket looked like an egg on top.  There was beer coming
out of the airlock, the seam around the lid of the bucket and the lid
was bulged out like nothing I'd ever seen before.  Wow.

This was a VERY simple extract batch which consisted of a can of Muntons
Bock Kit and 3lbs of DME.  I used the Wyeast German Ale yeast in a quart
starter and that's about it.  Ferm temp was high due to the weird
heatwave we had in the Pac NW over the last couple of days.  I would
estimate it to be around 73 degrees or so.  Any ideas on why this would
have occurred? Maybe I should pour it all down the drain and start
over...  (NOT!)

Thanks again for the wealth of knowledge shared here!

Maxwell

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From: Mike_Bell at ccmail.va.grci.com
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 09:44:41 -0400
Subject: Temp Controller Summary

I got several good ideas from my request for information on freezer
temperature controllers.  This is a summary of those responses.

To start with, no one had anything positive to say about the Hunter
Airstat.  They blow a zener diode regularly, and it can only control temps
down to 40F although it can measure temperatures below that.  My main
concern was reliability, and the Hunter unit struck out there.  Reported
time to failure were in the 6-18 month range.

Several people had some good suggestions for alternate controllers.  I'll
summarize some of them here.
a.  One person suggested disassembling the freezer thermostat and adjusting
for a new control range.  He claimed he had a friend who worked on them at
a heating and air conditioning place.  The friend had told him that they
set the overall range of the thermostat with a customer inaccessible
adjustment, and then apply a dab of paint to hold it.  He did say he had
never tried it himself.  I disassembled two different freezer thermostats,
and couldn't find the other adjustment.
b.  Several people mentioned the Radio Shack temperature controller module
that is described on a couple of different web pages.
c.  One person said he was using a commercial thermostat (Honeywell T6031)
that he bought from Brewer's Warehouse for about $50.  That was a strong
contender for my choice.
d.  Another person suggested using a timer to control the on-off cycle of
the freezer.  I didn't want to do that as I thought I would be forever
adjusting it to get it into the right range.  I also didn't like the idea
because I'm too cheap to maintain my house temperature within a narrow
range (it gets damn cold in Indiana in the winter, and somewhat warm in the
summer).  The freezer is going to be affected by the external room air
temperature, and the timer would have to be adjusted all the time.  Too
much work for me.
e.  One person had good things to say about the Fermentometer from Brewer's
Resource.  I guess it's like a Hunter Airstat, but more reliable.  It can
also control down to 20F.
f.  Lastly, one person suggested using a thermistor with an LM-339
comparator to turn the freezer on and off.  I liked that idea, but wanted
an easier method for setting the control temperature.

I was initially against the Radio Shack idea as my experience with them was
overpriced merchandise and shoddy quality.  I did however decide to go with
that route for my controller.  I'm an electrical engineer, and have a lot
of experience with circuit design, so I feel comfortable with building the
unit and making modifications to the design for a couple of other features
I'd like it to have.  I'm going to add an LED to indicate when the freezer
is (or should be) operating, and an alarm circuit that will activate when
the temp goes below some adjustable level.  Hopefully that will protect
against frozen beer even if the controller fails.  If there's interest I'll
make my design changes available.

Regards,
Mike

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From: RUSt1d? <rust1d at swamp.li.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 12:16:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Wit beer help

>2) Has anybody used both flaked wheat and regular unmalted wheat?
>   Is there much difference? I've heard unmalted wheat is a royal
>   PITA to work with, but I want to keep this authentic since it
>   is going into a competition. Should I stick with the flaked
>   wheat or use milled unmalted?

Flaked wheat is pre-gelatenized so you will not have to boil it.

Unmalted wheat should be boiled for a couple of hours prior to mashing,
and it will take all your strength to mill it!

John Varady
Boneyard Brewing Co.


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From: Bill Ballhorn <optimg!ballhorn at insosf1.netins.net>
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 96 11:06:14 CDT
Subject: Lactic Acid Fermentation

After recently brewing a Belgian Wit, soured with lactic acid (88%) and aged
for two months to blend the acid, I found the sourness was not as intense or
rounded as I would like. The next time I brew this style I wold like to try
a lactic acid fermentation, hence my questions to the wit (not a beer style)
and wisdom of the HBD.

I would like to try wort souring with lactic acid bacteria, followed by a
fifteen minute boil to kill the bacteria, after I've reached the proper
degree of sourness. This procedure was outlined in a article in the latest
issue of Brewing Techniques. But it did leave some unanswered questions, at
least for me.

1. Can I leave the wort to ferment in my boiling kettle with the spent hops
and hot break still on the bottom? I'm assuming this is not the best and
therefore the procedure should be to rack to a carboy for the lactic acid
ferment and then rack back to my boil kettle to boil and kill the bacteria?

2. Am I correct in assuming the lactic acid ferment should be maintained at
a higher than normal temperature throughout the fermentation process to
achieve the correct degree of sourness within a 24-72 hour time frame.

3. If I'm using a glass carboy for the lactic fermentation will normal
sanitation methods (bleach or idophor) keep my carboy and racking tube/hose
from becoming permanent sour beer apparatus? The idea of pouring boiling
water into my carboy makes me nervous, siphoning fermented beer out doesn't ;-)

TIA - Bill Ballhorn


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From: STROUDS at cliffy.polaroid.com
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 11:06:22 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Sufur dioxide and metabisulfites

>From HBD #2103

AlK>  Let me ask this of the chemists, then:  Faintly I recall
AlK>  that sulfur dioxide in water makes sulfuric acid.  Is this
AlK>  right?  Is sulfuric acid very unstable?  My understanding
AlK>  of the action of metabisulfites is that they produce this
AlK>  sulfur-compound gas (HA!) in an acidic solution which
AlK>  inhibits yeast and bacterial growth.  24 hours later, all
AlK>  the gas has fizzled out and the wine must can be pitched
AlK>  with cultured yeast. Pitching yeast immediately after
AlK>  adding the metabisulfites will inhibit the cultured yeast
AlK>  too.  So, have I been wrong about the SO4 creating H2SO4
AlK>  in contact with water or is H2SO4 really that unstable
AlK>  that it is no longer an inhibitor.

You are wrong about the sulfuric acid production.  Sulfur dioxide
(SO2, _not_ SO4) is a gas that partially dissolves in water to form
weakly acidic sulfurous acid (H2SO3), not sulfuric acid.  (Think of it
as being somewhat analogous to the dissolution of carbon dioxide (CO2)
which dissolves in water to yield carbonic acid (H2CO3)).  However,
sulfurous acid is either not present or present only in infitesimal
quantities in solution.

The sulfurous acid hydrate H2SO3.6H2O is actually largely in the form
of the gas hydrate SO2.7H2O.

Sodium metabisulfite (Na2S2O5), also known as sodium pyrosulfite,
decomposes when dissolved in water, yielding sufur dioxide and sodium
sulfite.

Na2S2O5 ----->   SO2 and Na2SO3

Sulfur dioxide is a reducing agent and is the agent responsible for
sanitation, disinfection, inhibition, etc.

Steve

strouds at polaroid.com

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From: Douglas Thomas <thomasd at uchastings.edu>
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 10:34:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Blueberries for John Varady

I am not a homebrewer, but a homewinemaker.  I can tell you that 15 lbs
of blueberries to 5 gallons water made an excellent wine.  Nice berry
taste with very good dark color.  It was actually a bit on the heavy
side, so you may want to cut back.  Don't know how well this translates
to brew, but probably about the same.  I would personally like a beer
with less than this, just to let the other tastes through as well.

Hope this helps
Doug Thomas
thomasd at uchastings.edu


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From: AJN <neitzkea at frc.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 10:13:06 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Questions to improve my beer (what else?)

I have only brewed three batches of beer now, and after reading the HBD
since June 96, it seams that I can improve my beer by:

1. Avoiding HSA

2. Using liquid yeast

Now for my questions:

A. When cooling the wort, what should be the final tempature before adding
it to the carboy?

B. Can I use dry yeast and hydrate it pryor to pitching, or do I have to
buy "smack packs"?

Thanks in advance for any advice to a beginner,

_________________________________________________________________________
Arnold J. Neitzke                         Internet Mail: neitzkea at frc.com




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From: "Dave Hinkle" <Dave.Hinkle at aexp.com>
Date: 16 Jul 1996 11:21:05 -0700
Subject: Beer in Space

Greg Wilsonn ponders the space fermenter... 
 
"<snip> So, what about a three-membrane free-form amoeba like fermenting 
vessel. The membranes would be made of something like Goretex (TM) which would 
allow the aspiration of (1) liquids but not solids (2) gasses but not liquids 
and (3) nothing. 
 
The vessel would be a bubble inside a bubble inside a bubble. The inner most 
bubble would have a larger weave than the outer two. As the beer ferments the 
liquids (water and alcohol) would pass into the middle bubble. The outer bubble

would have a smaller weave which would allow the gasses (CO2, O2, and others?) 
to pass through to yet a third very tight membrane which would be hooked to a 
gas collection system. 
 
The membrane would have to be semi rigid in order to allow pressure buildup. 
<snip>" 
 
My idea is similar, except I'd skip the center bubble and plan on filtering the

beer (using a magnetic drive diaphragm pump to reduce effects of torque of 
course).  I'd also skip the outer gas collection bubble.  So what I have left 
is a single non-elastic highly gas-permeable (water & alcohol tight) membrane. 
Anyone know if Gortex is alcohol-tolerant?  O2 would need to be pumped 
continuously into the fermenter (with airstones) during initial fermentation, 
as it would be "leaking out" probably faster than the yeast consumed it during 
the 1st 20-24 hrs of fermentation.  Assuming the fermenter was in 0g and no 
atmospheric pressure (the cargo hold?), most of the generated CO2 from the 
later phases of fermentation would go out through the membrane as a result of 
the internal pressure created. A pressure relief valve would be a good idea in 

case the CO2 built up faster than it could pass through the membrane (although 
gas AND beer would be lost).  Also, with no atmosphere around the fermenter, 
you'd need some sort of heating/cooling coils around or inside the fermenter to

keep the wort/beer within fermentation temperature. The ferementer shape should

be a balance between large surface area and a shape that allows free movement 
of the liquid throughout.  Sort of a square, puffy pillow shape comes to mind, 
as it would also be easy to fabricate.  Beer-in-a-bag in space!   As someone 
else mentioned, with no O2 outside the fermenter, oxidation would not be much 
of a concern. 
 
Once fermentation was complete, the beer would need to be pumped through a 
filter, unless you made a hefeweizen;-) , then into a keg and artificially 
carbonated via CO2 injection.  It would be kind of weird having to drink from 
the cobra tap though (not like anyone's ever done THAT on earth!).   Actually, 
you'd also need some kind of air bladder (eg. party pig) or piston in the keg 
that could be contracted/retracted upon keg filling, then expanded/exerted to 
dispense the beer.  Gas displacement would not work in 0g (insert belch here), 
would it? I wonder if you shake the keg and create beer foam if the foam would 

ever turn back into liquid? 
 
So the questions I see that would need some experimentation are: 
1) What role does yeast flocculation have on the flavor (& attenuation), since 
it wouldn't floc in 0g? 
2) Can yeast autolyze if it doesn't flocculate? 
3) Do ale yeasts NEED to ferment on the top, and lager yeasts on the bottom, 
considering there would be no top nor bottom of the fermenter and the yeast 
would remain in suspension? 
4) Does beer foam ever turn back into liquid in 0g? 
5) How do measure specific gravity in 0g? 
 
I've mainly thought about the cold side.  Anyone up to the challenge of 
tackling the hot side? 
 
Dave Hinkle 
'keg washer candidate in training for the space station' 

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From: "Rich Byrnes" <rbyrnes2.ford at e-mail.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 14:49:09 EDT
Subject: Beer Desserts

Greetings All; 
 
Was perusing my trusty copy of Ben & Jerrys IceCream cookbook 
and sure enough, beer sorbet!  Basically it's 18oz of flat 
dark beer (they recommend Becks Dark, but they've never tried my 
Nestles Tollhouse Porter!  Right Babcock!!)  and 5 tablespoons 
of sugar, stirred in til dissolved.  this mixture is then put 
in an icecream maker and just follow manufacturers directions. 
 
I remember making sorbets by just sticking the whole mess in the 
freezer and every hour taking out and stirring so it's slushy, 
not one big frozen mass. 
 
Can't say that I've tried it but sounds interesting!  Porter Pops? 
Stout-Sicles? Nut Brown Nutty Buddy bars? 
 
 
Regards,_Rich Byrnes Jr 
Fermental Order of Renaissance Draughtsmen     \\\|/// 
phone #(313)323-2613, fax #390-4520_______o000_(.) (.)_000o 
rbyrnes2.ford at e-mail.com                         (_) 
 

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From: korz at pubs.ih.lucent.com
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 96 14:42:14 CDT
Subject: Glucose priming/Candi Sugar/corn sugar/stuck ferments/seeded hops/carbonation

Dave asks about priming sugar (glucose/sucrose/etc.). 
 
10 floz. of sucrose (table sugar) sure sounds like a lot to me.  Sucrose 
provides more carbonation than glucose (aka dexrose, aka corn sugar). 
Personally, I use 1/2 cup (4 floz.) of corn sugar for English-style 
(low carbonation) ales and 3/4 cup (6 floz.) of corn sugar for American 
Ales and most Lagers.  I have used 7/8 cup of corn sugar for Belgian Ales 
and Bavarian Weizens and that worked quite nicely. 
 
As for speed of carbonation, I believe that sucrose and glucose seem to 
be very close -- malt extract and honey priming are definitely much slower. 
Miller has some misconceptions regarding carbonation (these have been 
discussed thoroughly in previous HBDs) so I wouldn't count on him as a 
good resource in this area. 
 
I've done some experiments with fill level that seem to indicate that a 
high fill level (like 0 to 15ml of headspace) appears to inhibit carbonation. 
It not only goes slower, but the final carbonation level may be significantly 
lower too!  This may explain why some can prime 5 gallons with 10 floz. and 
still get reasonable carbonation (although I would think that the residual 
priming sugar would add to the sweetness of the beer).  Finally, there is 
a wide range of opinion on what is the proper level of carbonation.  One that 
is used to the carbonation level of Duvel will feel that 1/2 cup of dextrose 
makes "flat" beer. 
 
The Crabtree effect is another one of those overworked topics.  The bottom 
line from weeks of HBD back issues is that the yeast will use up most of 
the introduced oxygen no matter what you prime the beer with (i.e. malt 
extract priming is no better than glucose or sucrose regarding O2 use by 
the yeast). 
 
*** 
Steve writes: 
>...Belgian candi sugar was just crystalized white sugar, which is sucrose. 
 
Right, but that's "White Belgian Candi Sugar."  There are various other 
colours from "amber" to "dark."  Brown Sugar is made with molasses and 
would (as Pierre says) give a different flavour than the darker candi sugars. 
I believe that the colour of the candi sugar has to do with caramelization, 
but this has yet to be confirmed by the manufacturers.  Use sucrose for 
white candi sugar.  If you need darker candi sugars, I believe that 
Steinbart's in Portland has it. 
 
*** 
Bill writes: 
>Corn sugar is 70-80% fermentable. 
 
Corn sugar is 100% fermentable.  The reason that cane sugar (sucrose) 
has more carbonation potential is due to the molecular weight of sucrose 
versus that of glucose (there are just slightly more sugar molecules in 
a gram of sucrose than in a gram of glucose -- it's about a 5% difference). 
 
*** 
Domenick writes: 
>Maltose is a disaccharide composed of 2 glucose molecules.  The use of 
>maltose as a food source first entails getting the maltose into the cell, 
>then maltase (an enzyme) breaks the alpha-1,4 bonds between the 2 glucose 
>molecules.  The resulting 2 glucose molecules are then metabolized in the 
>glycolysis pathway.  This means that during maltose fermentation the 
>glucose pathways are fully active and I don't see how adding glucose could 
>cause the yeast to stall in such a situation.  To the contrary I would 
>think that adding glucose (corn sugar) to a maltose fermentation would 
>cause the yeast to ignore the maltose until the newly available glucose 
>was used up.  Which is basically the Crabtree effect. 
 
I don't know the biology or chemistry behind it, but both Malting and Brewing 
Science and The Practial Brewer say that worts that have too much glucose 
in them often lead to "hanging fermentations" or what we would call "stuck 
fermentations."  My *guess* would be that the yeast would "forget" how to 
make maltase in the presence of too much glucose. 
 
I'm afraid that what you describe is not at all the Crabtree effect.  The 
Crabtree effect is the yeast forgoing respiration and instead performing 
fermentation.  It is caused not only by glucose but also by other sugars. 
 
*** 
Tom writes: 
>Main problem with wild hops is that they may contain male plants 
>which polinate the female plants used in brewing. 
>Polinated hops grow to seeds and are quite useless (at least I was told so). 
 
You were told wrong.  Seeded hops have slightly lower lupulin content 
and therefore lower %AA, but are fine for brewing.  Fuggle is a variety 
that I know is grown seeded in the UK (although some farms may grow them 
unseeded). 
 
*** 
David writes: 
>A low quantity of 
>yeast may or may not be more sensitive to the changeover from maltose to 
>glucose 
 
I don't think even the stupidest yeast forgets how to ferment glucose, but 
rather it can forget how to ferment bigger sugars.  The issue with high- 
glucose worts is that they ferment the glucose and then stop, leaving all 
the other sugars behind. 
 
Also David writes: 
>I crept back to this 10 oz/5 gal number with 
>corn sugar through several brews from the 5oz/5 gal  recommended when the 
>bottles weren't carbonating and I had flat beer after a month . 
 
and: 
>Both cans and bottles were stored at about 65-70 degrees side by side. 
 
By any chance are the bottles sitting on a cement cellar floor?  While 
the air temperature may be 65-70F, the concrete could be 60F or even lower 
in the wintertime.  This was the source of slow carbonation for one of 
my customers.  Moving the beer up to a 70F closet upstairs gave him 
carbonated beer in 10 days. 
 
 
Al. 
 
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL 
korzonas at lucent.com 
Copyright 1996 Al Korzonas 

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From: rransom at msu.edu (Richard F. Ransom)
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 96 20:54:45 GMT
Subject: Open Fermentation

Hello y'all! 
 
I'm just back to the list after a long hiatus (about eight years), so 
forgive me if I bring up a subject which has been already thrashed to death. 
 
I'm interested in open fermentation, having pushed the envelope of dirty 
brewing to its limit within the closed fermenter realm.  I'm also 
considering a small microbrewery (and I mean _small_), and since funds are 
rather tight I would like to avoid spending $4,000 - 10,000 each on 
stainless-steel double-walled glycol-chilled state-of-the-art devices for 
fermentation.  Not to mention that buying fabulously expensive fermenters 
with exhaustive precautions against stray microorganisms runs counter to my 
long training in microbiology, which has taught me that you should be as 
dirty as possible up to the point that you get contamination. 
 
Has anyone visited the breweries in England, Belgium, and Eastern Europe 
which perform open fermentations?  Anyone tried it themselves?  Sure would 
like to hear about any personal experiences. 
 
My other question concerns far-from-state-of-the-art fermenters.  I would 
like to cast my own open fermenters out of reinforced concrete and then 
glaze the interior surfaces with some acid-resistant coating.  I strongly 
suspect that raw concrete would be a poor surface for fermentation, carrying 
the high risk of culturing contaminants in crevices and leaching various 
non-food-grade substances into the acidic beer.  Anyone with experience in 
the masonry trade familiar with a suitable low-temp glaze? 
 
Well, glad to be back.  May your beers be as good on the belch as on the 
swallow. 
 
Father Barleywine 
 
[Richard Ransom, rransom at msu.edu] 
 

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