---

   FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
        Shawn Steele, Digest Janitor
        Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!

Contents:
  RE: Babys Steps HBD 2102 ((Michael A. Genito))
  Blueberry (RUSt1d?)
  Re: Priming sugar (Bill Giffin)
  Refrigerators vs. Chest Freezers for Kegging (Maxwell McDaniel)
  Harvest Fair (Norman Dickenson)
  Water Analysis - Davis, CA (James Murphy)
  Burley/Enzymes pt 1. (Steve Alexander)
  Lambic Carbonation Fix (Erik Larson                     (Tel 202-622-1322                    ))
  Burley/enzymes pt 2. (Steve Alexander)
  Minikegs (RHENDRY at MFOR01.FOR.GOV.BC.CA)
  Thermal denaturation of enzymes (Steve Alexander)
  Brew pubs in Indianapolis? ("J. Pat Martinez" )
  [none] ("Dave Hinkle")
  Cultureing Yest / I think the HBD is great! ()
  Removing the Freezer! (Mark Polnasek)
  Two Dogs Lemonade / Duff Beer (Andy Walsh)
  Fermentation Problem? (Ron)
  Corn Sugar ("David R. Burley")
  Beer in Space a Solution?ion? (Greg Wilsonn)
  Re: Where to get beer in New Brunswick or PEI (Philip DiFalco)
  Beer in PEI and NS (Robert Paolino)
  Re: Beer in Spaaace (tgaskell at syr.lmco.com)

For SUBMISSIONS to be published, send mail to:
  homebrew at aob.org
For (UN)SUBSCRIBE requests, send mail to:
  homebrew-digest-request@ aob.org
  and include only subscribe or unsubscribe in the body of the message.

Please note that if subscribed via BEER-L, you must unsubscribe by sending
  a one line e-mail to listserv at ua1vm.ua.edu that says: UNSUB BEER-L
If your address is changing, please unsubscribe from the old address and
  then subscribe from the new address.
If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first.
For technical problems send e-mail to the Digest Janitor, shawn at aob.org.

OTHER HOMEBREW INFORMATION
  http://www.aob.org/aob - The AHA's web site.
  http://alpha.rollanet.org - "The Brewery" and the Cat's Meow Archives.
  info at aob.org - automated e-mail homebrewing information.

ARCHIVES:
  At ftp.stanford.edu in /pub/clubs/homebrew/beer via anonymous ftp.  Also
  http://alpha.rollanet.org on the web and at majordomo at aob.org by e-mail.


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: genitom at nyslgti.gen.ny.us (Michael A. Genito)
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 15:09:37 -0400
Subject: RE: Babys Steps HBD 2102

In HBD 2102 Dean wrote regarding full boils: "Any advice on economical
advances to conquer full boil and wort chilling would be appreciated."
- ---------------------------
Three alternatives: 1) Brew 2.5 gal instead of 5 gal batches; 2) Split the
batch using two 16 or 20 qt pots; 3) Buy an enamel 33 qt pot for ~$40 or
less. All of the above may be inexpensively cooled by placing the pot(s) in
a sink, tub or washtub with cold water or ice water and stirring the wort to
expedite the cooling.
Michael A. Genito, City Comptroller
City of Rye, 1051 Boston Post Road, Rye, NY 10580 USA
TEL:(914)967-7302/FAX:(914)967-4604

Return to table of contents


From: RUSt1d? <rust1d at swamp.li.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 15:51:53 -0400
Subject: Blueberry

Posts: Perhaps limiting a single persons daily contribution to the HBD would
be the best
solution. If each person was limited to one 2k post a day, I think that
redunancy,
meaningless chatter, extensive signatures lines and non-brewing related
material would
all but disappear. Frankly, I barely have time to read the HBD, let alone
write several
winded posts a day about everything and anything. Where do you find the time?

I am planning on making a blueberry beer. Can someone offer suggestions as
to how much
to use? Should I use a pale ale as a base? or a wheat? How many pints per
gallon?

I had the pleasure of helping Jim Cancro brew his second batch at Rell Bell
Brewing Co. in Philadelphia last week. Fun time, Nice guy.

John Varady
Boneyard Brewing Co.



Return to table of contents


From: Bill Giffin <billg at maine.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 16:10:22 -0500
Subject: Re: Priming sugar

Good afternoon,

<<George De Piro said:
   Bill responds to Dave that corn sugar is only 70-80% fermentable.
   That is not correct.  Corn sugar is glucose and is 100% fermentable.
>>
George is correct.  The word I meant to use was not fermentable but extract.
You get more extract from a pound of cane sugar then from a pound of corn
sugar therefore you have to use about 20% more corn then cane.

Bill



Return to table of contents


From: Maxwell McDaniel <maxwellm at microsoft.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 13:38:30 -0700
Subject: Refrigerators vs. Chest Freezers for Kegging

Greetings all

The Decision:
I have decided that my fridge is just too small to keep my 5 gallon
Corny kegs in anymore and intend to purchase a used fridge or freezer to
keep my beer in and to lager.

The Questions:
Which is better, refrigerator or freezer?  And if it's a freezer, do I
go for upright of the other kind (coffin style)?

Can anyone give me guidance on how to hook up taps and CO2 lines without
disturbing any freon coils?

TIA,


Maxwell McDaniel

Return to table of contents


From: Norman Dickenson <norman.dickenson at sonoma.edu>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 10:51:13 -0700
Subject: Harvest Fair

                      Subject:                              Time:  8:14 AM
  OFFICE MEMO         Harvest Fair                          Date:  7/15/96

The 15th Annual Sonoma County Harvest Fair Homebrew
Competition will be held on September 7, 1996 at the
Fairgrounds in Santa Rosa, California.  All major styles
are represented in 11 judging classes.  The entry deadline
is August 26, 1996 and it costs $5.00 per entry.

The Best of Show winner gets a really cool trophy and
other wonderful considerations.  The 1995 winner was
George Fix of Arlington, Texas with a Vienna.

For entry materials, call or write the Sonoma County
Harvest Fair:  (707) 545-4203;

   Sonoma County Harvest Fair
   Entry Office
   Administration Building
   Sonoma County Fairgrounds
   1350 Bennett Valley Road
   Santa Rosa,  CA  95404

or...........if that's too long of an address for you to
write, send me an e-mail request with your name
and mailing address and I'll see that you get one.

norman.dickenson at sonoma.edu





- ------------------------------

Return to table of contents


From: James Murphy <murphy at gordy.ucdavis.edu>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 14:02:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Water Analysis - Davis, CA

Hi,

I just got a copy of a water analysis for our local well water (in West
Davis, CA) and was hoping that some of you water experts might be able to
help me interpet it.  The water tastes pretty bad, so I've avoided using
it for beer in the past, but buying bottled spring water gets expensive
after a while.  Most of my beers now are partial mashes, but I'm hoping to
move on to all-grain soon.  I brew mostly ales, but also brew some lagers
(primarily those which can take higher fermentation temps, like Calif
Common, Altbier, Kolsch).  Is this water even worth trying to brew with?
If so, what adjustments should I make?  Is it worth investing in something
like a Brita filter?  Private email is fine, unless this is of general
interest.

Date of Water Analysis: 3/13/96
All units are in mg/l, unless otherwise noted

Constituent        Common Name         Level
===========        ===========         =====
Hardness           CaCO3               340
Calcium            Ca                  30
Magnesium          Mg                  63
Sodium             Na                  63
Potassium          K                   1.5
Alkalinity         CaCO3               350
Hydroxide          OH                  <0.20
Carbonate          CO3                 <1.2
Bicarbonate        HCO3                430
Sulfate            SO4                 36
Chloride           Cl                  29
Nitrate            NO3                 19
Fluoride           F                   0.25
Aluminum           Al                  <50
Arsenic            As                  <5.0
Barium             Ba                  140
Cadium             Cd                  0.29
Chromium           Total Cr            32
Copper             Cu                  <10
Cyanide            CN                  <3.0
Iron               Fe                  <30
Lead               Pb                  1.0
Manganese          Mn                  <5.0
Mercury            Hg                  <0.20
Selenium           Se                  1.9
Silver             Ag                  <10
Zinc               Zn                  80
Boron              B                   580
Nitrite            NO2                 <150
pH                                     7.9
Total Filterable Residue (TDS)         470
Specific Conductance (EC)              783 umhos/cm
Turbidity                              <0.10 NTU
MBAS (foaming agent)                   0.02

The water is also chlorinated, but no data are provided about levels.

Thanks...
Jim Murphy
jjmurphy at ucdavis.edu


Return to table of contents


From: Steve Alexander <stevea at clv.mcd.mot.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 17:03:11 -0400
Subject: Burley/Enzymes pt 1.

My scathing rebuttal to David Burley bounced due to the 8K limit.
Just as well, this is no forum for flame wars.  The more light, less
heat condensed version follows.

David Burley's 70C mash actually consisted of a 64 minute, 57.2C
rest, followed by a 25' 70C rest.  The 64'  at  57.2C, using the normal
kinetic model, is equivanlt to a 37' rest at 65C(149).  No wonder he
still gets 75% AA.  He did a beta-amylase rest and didn't realise it.
Mystery resolved IMO.

To prove the point I performed a 70C single step infusion mash for 180
minutes last night, forced fermentation w/ chanpagne yeast is
underway. I'll post detail & apparent attenuation after the
fermentation subsides.


=== Enzyme Kinetic issues ===
David writes several thing that I find no support for in the lit.  I
wish he'd retract 'em or cite references.

> Normal rule of thumb kinetics would suggest that at 158, the rate of
> disappaerance of beta-amylase would be on the order of twice of what
> it is at 150.

So David's rule of thumb is 2X per 8F(4.44C).

The fact is that a 2X per 10C(18F) rule drops out of the
maxwell-boltzmann energy distribution when modelling simple binary
reactions.  Basically the rate is proportional to how many little
billiard balls collide w/ sufficient kinetic energy to cause a
reaction.  The only factors accounted for are collisions and energy.

Enzyme activity rates often folow this rule, since the rate *IS*
proportional to how often enzyme & substrate collide w/ sufficient
energy. Industrial enyzymologists call the FACTOR of change over 10C
"Q10" (Q-sub-10).  Typically Q10 ~= 2 for activity rates.

Some reactions follow different kinetic rates because the billiard
balls no longer act like billiard balls.  The molecules (billiard
balls) take on energetic states that either more or less easily react.
"If the collisions occur in such a way that forces the geometry of the
activated complex to depart seriously from the most favorable
arrangement ... fewer collisions can meet the [reaction] requirement."
(refe below) This is true for a lot of simple inorganic reactions. In
enzymes the   protein backbone forms a complex geometry that folds
back on itself like a pile of ribbon.  The ribbon may have weak bonds
where they touch, usually hydrogen or sulpher involved as I recall.
The protein backbone itself is capable of substantial mechanical flex
and force on the weak bonds, the the 'ribbon loops' look like they
should be able to store vibrational energy.  Enzyme degradation acts
like this - it is not a simple binary collision affair, it involves
this big weakly bonded ribbon getting shaken apart.  Q10 for
degradation is usually in range of 5 to 100, and most often 6-36.

I'll cite my first university level chem text, 'University Chemistry',
B.H.Mahan, Addison-Wesley Publ, 1969, pp 377- on both kinetic models.
Any good college text should suffice.

> I have never heard that denaturization of beta amylase had an
> abnormal temperature dependence as suggested by one respondent.
> Let's see the documented data.

It isn't abnormal at all. The Q10 = 2 case described above only
applies to simple binary collision reactions.  Citations of various
aspect follow.

'Enzyme Technology', M.F.Chaplin & C.Bucke Cambridge Press, 1990
  activation Q10 = 1.2 to 2.5 for most enzymes
  denaturing Q10 = 6 to 36
  "denaturing may be due to covalent changes [loss of amino acids] or
   non-covalent changes such as re-arrangement of protein chain."
The CRC publishes an enzymes reference text with a title like
   'Physical Constants of Enzymes'.  This book contains a description
   of the kinetics of denaturation, and has tabular data sometimes
   including denaturation rate constants for specific enzymes.
'The Enzymes', Myrback, describes denaturation rates toward the end
   of volume one.
'The Chemistry & Technology of Enzymes', Henry Tauber, 1949
   is an old text that contains some Q10 data, some of it from brewing
   examples, but even more enzyme activity/denaturation plots, from
   which Q10 for denaturation can be drawn.

I have a library note about denaturation Q10 = 10-100 typical, but it
isn't clear which one of several references this came from.  I think
from:
'The Enzymes', Sumner & Myrdaux, vol 1, pp 677


>I gave an example
>from Eric Warner's wheat beer book in which a saccharification temperature of
>158-162F was used and this was a decoction mash in which the beta Amylase

I've posted this before - recently:
  WHEAT AMYLASE  NOT EQUAL BARLEY AMYLASE
Is that clear now ?  The specific activity of wheat BA is about 20%
higher than that of barley.  The weight of wheat BA is around 160000
daltons, while barley is around 220000.  I don't have specifics info
on wheat BA stability, but I do have an article in which alfalfa AA is
stable to 100C with adaquate Ca ions (from J.Biol Chem, ~1986, sorry -
reference not immediately available)!!! This demonstrates that even
among cereals there is wide variation in enzymes thermal stability.
David, can you cite a source which indicates the wheat and barley BA
have similar thermal stability ?

Steve Alexander



Return to table of contents


From: Erik Larson <Erik.C.E.L.Larson at MS01.DO.treas.sprint.com> (Tel 202-622-1322 )
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 15:21:12 -0400
Subject: Lambic Carbonation Fix

One month ago, I bottled a Raspberry Framboise Lambic-style ale
that I have carefully been aging in secondary for approximately
nine months.  At bottling, I added fresh starters of Wyeast 1056,
Pediococcus Cerev. and Brett. Lambicus.  I primed my 6 gallon
batch with with 4 cups of pure raspberry juice (sugar content
unknown) and 1/2 cup of dextrose powder.

Fearing that I may have initally over-primed and created a bunch
of glass grenades, I "burped" (gently opened and resealed) each
bottle about two days after capping.

Now after one month in the bottle, the stuff is definately nice,
but has far to little effervescience.

How do I go about adding additional sugar?  How much per bottle?
Should I use dry sugar or make up a syrup?  Should I add more
yeast too?  Or should I just wait and see what happens after an
additional month?

Thanks.
Erik Larson (erik.larson at treas.sprint.com)

Return to table of contents


From: Steve Alexander <stevea at clv.mcd.mot.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 17:12:41 -0400
Subject: Burley/enzymes pt 2.

David Burley wrote ...
>In an earlier post I quoted a reference from M&BS that said that in
>the*wort* beta amylase had a lifetime of 45 min to an hour, at 150F if
>I recall correctly. Not the 15 minutes
I said 15-20 minutes was the HALF-LIFE, which would mean that BA was
down to 12-21% of the original after 45 minutes.  The M&B graph on pp
291 show a comparable AA decline at 120 minutes  at  68C and the text
states ... "The AA activity declines at 67C(153F), the last activity
dissappears in about 2 hr."  For brewing purposes losing 80-90% of
the enzymes apparently defines the effective end of enzyme activity
for the authors of M&B Sci.  My half-life figure is supportable.
Also see other citations in prev post.

- --

I had originally intended to include the calculation for the integral
over time of the enzyme population, times an temperature dependent
activity factor.  This integral is propertional to the total enzymes
activity, the number of amylase linkages broken say for an amylase on
excess substrate conditions.  In a real world mash the enzymes should
denature even faster as substrate becomes unavailable. Basically this
shows that is you mash for 2 half-lifes of a particular enzyme then
the enzyme content (trivially) declines to 25%, and the total
available activity remaining over *infinite* mash time is also 25%.
That is you've gotten 75% of all the activity you would if you mash
forever.  Another half-life will earn 12.5%, another 6.25% ...  I'll
post the math & acscii graphs if there is sufficient demand.

Assuming a 5 minute half-life for BA at 70C, (which may be a bit high
and corresponds to a 25min half-life  at  65C roughly),
then:

time minutes	% of BA activity executed
   15		87%
   30		98.4%
   60		99.97%
   90		99.9996%

Get it now  - or am I talking to myself again ?  Past 30 or 35 min and
you're pretty much playing with your food as far as BA activity goes.
Is that clear enough ?   BTW all the real-world enzyme vs time graphs
I've seen like the M&B Sci ones mentioned before follow an exponential
decline after the first few minutes, (when perhaps E-S complex stability
conditions arise for AA).  The BA graphs look closer to theory.

I'm pretty uninterested in hearing any more David Burley opinions on
enzymes until he can cite reference for the ones he's already posted.
Or alternatively post experimental methods & results that (a) clearly
test the hypothesis and (b) are posted for all to examine and
reproduce.

Steve Alexander

Return to table of contents


From: RHENDRY at MFOR01.FOR.GOV.BC.CA
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 96 14:23:22 PDT
Subject: Minikegs

To: HOMEBREW--INTERNET homebrew at aob.org
cc: IGBORENH--MFOR01   Ian Borenheim

Can anyone point me in the direction of a FAQ or other summation of info on
this already frequently discussed topic? Private email in fine. TIA.

Regards,
Russ Hendry, R.O. Planning In Sunny Invermere BC.(604)342-4225
Fax:342-4247                  Inet: RHENDRY at MFOR01.FOR.GOV.BC.CA

Return to table of contents


From: Steve Alexander <stevea at clv.mcd.mot.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 17:24:01 -0400
Subject: Thermal denaturation of enzymes

Pierre Jelenc writes in response to Charlie Scandrett ...

>Denaturation does not depend on breaking the disulfide bonds, which are
>quite strong anyway: a protein can be totally heat-inactivated with all
>its S-S intact. On the other hand, reduction of the S-S to SH does
>facilitate denaturation but for that you need to add a reducing agent such
>as mercaptoethanol or DTT. On the gripping hand, most intracellular
>enzymes do not contain S-S bonds anyway, since most cells' insides are
>reducing (with some exceptions in some organelles, etc).

Tho' I'm certain I've read the disulphide bond linkage story, I don't
have a ready reference.  Apologies if I'm responsible for re-recyling
another enzyme momily.

As I previously noted tho' ...
>'Enzyme Technology', M.F.Chaplin & C.Bucke Cambridge Press, 1990
>  "denaturing may be due to covalent changes [loss of amino acids] or
>   non-covalent changes such as re-arrangement of protein chain."

Steve Alexander


Return to table of contents


From: "J. Pat Martinez" <martinez at puccini.crl.umn.edu>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 16:52:24 -0500
Subject: Brew pubs in Indianapolis?

Hi,

I'm headin to Indianapolis soon.  Anyone know of any brewpubs there?

Thanks,

Pat M.

~  J. Pat Martinez                    ~  martinez at puccini.CRL.umn.edu
~  Univ. of Minnesota                 ~  Phone:  (612) 625-2221
~  Dept. of Plant Pathology           ~  Fax:  (612) 625-9728


Return to table of contents


From: "Dave Hinkle" <Dave.Hinkle at aexp.com>
Date: 15 Jul 1996 14:56:03 -0700
Subject: [none]

Craig_Hartsock asks:

   "  3.  In a long quest to find a keg like container that would fit in my
fridge a friend came upon the idea of taking a 3 gallon glass carboy, <snip>
- ---My concern is the amount of pressure a regular glass carboy can take.  I
force carbonated a stout and about 30psi before it even registered that the
carboy could explode <snip> Does anyone know if there are any pressure ratings
for glass carboys?"

One of my glass carboys came with a warning tag that said 'Do not heat, bump,
drop, place under pressure, or carry by neck.  Discard if scratched or
chipped'.  Sure, it's a big legal seat cushion, but I don't think carboys were
designed for any significant internal pressure.

Why not just use 3 gallon corny kegs?  I got a bunch of them from Amber Waves
in GA.  No affiliation, just a satisfied customer.  Apparently, there are 2.5
gallon cornies out there, but they are no longer made so pretty hard to find.
The 3 gallon size can fit in a refrigerator, but it still requires a somewhat
awkward shelf arrangement that isn't always appreciated by family members who
want to keep other things in the same fridge (like milk, etc.).  I think the 3
gal kegs are about 19" tall ( I can't give you an exact measurement 'cause my
kegs are at home).  The 2.5 gallon cornies are about 15.5" tall.  A 2 gallon
corny would be the perfect fridge size, but I don't know if they exist.

Dave Hinkle, Phoenix, AZ



Return to table of contents


From: 
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 18:38:27 -0700
Subject: Cultureing Yest / I think the HBD is great!

This is my first attempt at a post.  I will keep it short.
I am trying to make my own starter. I bought a pkg of wyeast German Ale
and split it between 2 12 oz bottles of wort ( 1 cup dried malt extract
and 20 oz water) and boiled for 10 minutes. I used one to make beer and put the
other
one in the fridge with a lock on it.  I am now splitting
it again with 1 cup dried malt extract and 20 oz water boiled for 10
minutes. Is this the proper way? the "beer" I poured off the second bottle 
tasted like
beer without any infections. I try to be as sanitary as possible. Any comments 
would be
great.  Private Email or in the
digest.

I have extract been brewing for 2 years or so. I have been reading the
Digest since the Grain Mill thread. I cannot believe how much I can learn for 
free. I
will go to all grain someday. I am going to make a wand wort chiller next. 
Thank you
all for the linfo..

droot at concentric.net         David Root     Lockport NY


Return to table of contents


From: Mark Polnasek <dolt at mnsinc.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 21:43:15 -0400
Subject: Removing the Freezer!

Jerry,
        Quite awhile ago, my fellow brewer and I purchased a small used
"dormatory" type of frige for our kegs. While we were being showed the
fridge, I asked the guy how many kegs it would hold. At that he yanked out
the freezer and folded it to the back of the fridge. Amazing. Now the
freezer was tucked against the back of the unit. Plenty of room now. I was
fearful of the connecting freon lines but he did it again to another to show
us how easy it was. I really can't remember exatly what he did but it worked.
        I had to remove the door shelf and gasket and cut out the middle of
the shelfs with a sabre saw to get two kegs into it. Just remove the door
liner and gasket and saw around the edge. Be sure to leave about 1 1/2 inch.
Reattach whats left and the gasket and reinstall.
        Two kegs fit rather snugly. We drilled two holes in the side to pass
the gas as it were. Two taps on the front with a hunk of wood for stability
and there you have it.
                Mark P.

Return to table of contents


From: Andy Walsh <awalsh at crl.com.au>
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 11:47:28 +1100
Subject: Two Dogs Lemonade / Duff Beer

Hi.
Beer historian, Jethro (Hophead) Gump reports:

>and the fellas who import Bass to
>the US, Ten Star, are bring out "Hooper's Hooch,' and "Two Dogs
>Alcoholic Lemonade."  Sounds like 4 dogs to me...what's next?

AHA! Something I can provide some background info on!
Two Dogs lemonade is the brainchild of the owner of "The Bull and
Bear Ale House", King William St, Adelaide, Australia, which
also happens to be one of the best places to buy Coopers on tap.
It is based on a well known joke. They have a T-shirt with
two dogs (side by side), with the Two Dogs logo. On the back
are the words, "Why do you ask?"
I'm not about to repeat the joke on email, so if you don't know
it, ask your friends.
It was originally brewed in a backyard in Adelaide, and is now
brewed under licence worldwide. It is basically just fermented
lemon juice and sugar. Australia's answer to Zima! I have never
actually tasted it. I guess the joke's inventor wishes he had
a copyright on it.

On another (related) vein: did you hear about how South
Australian Breweries (part of the Lion Nathan group), started
making and selling "Duff Beer". Well, Homer S. didn't take too
kindly to that and sued their asses off. Despite claims by SAB
that Duff Beer had nothing to do with the Simpsons, the court
was unimpressed and SAB was ordered to stop selling the stuff.
Good try, SAB (makers of Southwark Bitter, affectionately
known as "Green Death" in the rest of Australia).

- --
Andrew Walsh			
"The more I know about beer, the more I'd like to drink it"


Return to table of contents


From: Ron <dittohead at worldnet.att.net>
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 02:41:19 GMT
Subject: Fermentation Problem?

After priming my first five gallon batch, I was anxious to start another.
It is an all malt Irish Stout.  I have made the wort as usual and put it in
the five gallon container, added the yeast, waited a few minutes and then
stirred it into the wort, finally placing the airlock assembly on top.
(Although I have made only one prior five gallon batch that is now priming,
I have made several smaller batches and would like to think that I am
familiar with the process, but my no means good at it yet)
Anyway, based upon a recommendation that I received, I put the five gallon
container in my bathtub and filled it with water.  (Normal air temps here go
from eighty to ninety-five, so this would keep the wort cooler, and even the
instructions say sixty five to seventy for fermentation)  Anyway, its been
24 hours and the airlock is just barely bubbling.  Normally, at room temp
(my room temp of 85) it would be bubbling like crazy.

Do I have a problem here or do I just let it bubble slowly and not worry
about it?
If I do have  a problem, how do I fix it without losing the five gallon batch?

Thanks for your help,
Ron


I LOVE MY COUNTRY BUT
DISTRUST MY GOVERNMENT
		Ron


Return to table of contents


From: "David R. Burley" <103164.3202 at CompuServe.COM>
Date: 15 Jul 96 23:10:15 EDT
Subject: Corn Sugar

Brewsters:

Thanks to all of you who responded to my inquiry on priming and whether my
problem is because or in spite of the corn sugar.

After looking over your comments in the HBD and privately, there is one likely
candidate - I have been using a variety of Wyeast yeasts and it may be that I
don't have a good crop from the secondary into the bottles.  A low quantity of
yeast may or may not be more sensitive to the changeover from maltose to 
glucose
ala Tracy Aquilla's comments on another subject about glucose being injected in

the middle of the ferment can shock a yeast colony  into quietude.

All I know is that lately I seem to  have been having trouble in getting quick
(within a month) carbonation and it seems to correspond timewise with my
beginning to use glucose.  No comparable data with sucrose though to prove or
disprove it.  Others have written me that thay have used both corn sugar and
sucrose and had no problems or saw any difference with either.

Based on data from various places on the volumes of carbon dioxide generated by
various weights of sugars, I agree with those of you who said ten oz of corn
sugar per 5 gallons is too much ( although I was happy with 10 oz/gal of 
sucrose
for some reason for many years), I crept back to this 10 oz/5 gal number with
corn sugar through several brews from the 5oz/5 gal  recommended when the
bottles weren't carbonating and I had flat beer after a month .

I have an interesting situation because of this.  For the first time, ever, I
decided to use the 5l tapper  tin cans and carbonate them for an upcoming party
at the end of this month.  It so happens I carbonated them at this 10 oz /5 gal
level, because I hadn't had the advantage of your various experiences and was
operating under the idea that if 10 oz was good enough for sucrose than it
should be ok for corn sugar, given my recent experience.
Can you say rockin' & rollin tapper? or firehose? or schrapnel? The bottoms are
bulged out and I now have them in the fridge.  When the tap comes in at my HB
store I'll let you know.  The bottles from the same batch I prepared are still
flat with a minor amount of carbonation and this was with a new capper and good
quality caps. One of the cans bulged about two weeks before the other one. They
had been capped about a month when this happened to the first one.  The
difference makes me think it is a yeast content problem. Although I use a u
shaped racking cane and the beer was a little cloudy from yeast it is likely
that yeast content was higher at the bottom than the top and I filled the cans
first. To get uniformity in carbonation, I put a measured amount of syrup in
each container and then add the beer before capping  Both cans and bottles were
stored at about 65-70 degrees side by side. Very puzzling. Any suggestions on
the tappers besides "stand back"?

I hope to resolve this issue experimentally as suggested by Domenick Venezia..
I need a good series of suggestions on how to quantify the degree of
carbonation. Any ideas HBDers?  I can think of tests used in the industry for
volume of  head formation by pouring into a volumetric device from a set angle
and distance at the same temperature.  I can analyze for sugar content using
Clinitest, but as noted previously, this will not work for sucrose.  I plan to
use cane sugar and sucrose at 5 oz per gallon, add none or yeast or krausen 
that
has been developed on corn sugar or krausen from malt extract.  Maybe we will
find a method for faster and more reliable carbonation, who knows?  I at least
hope I gain a new understanding of this area.
- -----------------------------------------------------------
Barrowman asks about using an aspirator to direct his brew from one vessel to
another instead of using a siphon. Unless you are using the aspirator just to
start the siphon and then disconnect the aspirator, it won't work because the
aspirator will mix the beer and the stream of water doing the aspirating and
give you really light beer!  I don't know why a siphon is a pain for you, maybe
some more explanation, please.
- -----------------------------------------------------------
Rob "Jethro Gump" Moline did a nice  summary of US beer ads through the ages or
at least the last 50 years. Thanks, I enjoyed it.  You're right  nothin' new in
advertising.  People is people.
- -----------------------------------------------------------
Dennis Cabell, in this continuing spaaace thread, suggests we send up a whole
shuttleload of brewers at a time,comments on multiple spinning fermentors and
closes his comments by saying "This way we could get black and tan from space"
What colors were the brewers you sent up?
- -----------------------------------------------------------

Keep on brewin'

Dave Burley


Return to table of contents


From: Greg Wilsonn <IPS at chollian.dacom.co.kr>
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 13:24:02 +0900
Subject: Beer in Space a Solution?ion?

About the beer in space thing... Maybe the idea of a spinning carboy is the
wrong direction. The carboy works great with gravity; the bubbles float to the
top and the sediments go to the bottom. But in space where there is no gravity
the bubbles, sediment and beer would not separate.

So, what about a three-membrane free-form amoeba like fermenting vessel. The
membranes would be made of something like Goretex (TM) which would allow the
aspiration of (1) liquids but not solids (2) gasses but not liquids and (3)
nothing.

The vessel would be a bubble inside a bubble inside a bubble. The inner most
bubble would have a larger weave than the outer two. As the beer ferments the
liquids (water and alcohol) would pass into the middle bubble. The outer bubble
would have a smaller weave which would allow the gasses (CO2, O2, and others?)
to pass through to yet a third very tight membrane which would be hooked to a
gas collection system.

The membrane would have to be semi rigid in order to allow pressure buildup. 
And
this system could be tested on Earth first saving NASA the cost of a shuttle
flight; I wouldn't mind being on that flight though! IF it could be made to 
work
it would be it's own filtering system as well. Leaving the solid yeast along
with the trub and hop material in the inner most membrane.

Greg Wilson
An American Homebrewer in Korea.
ips at chollian.dacom.co.kr
greg at well.com

Return to table of contents


From: Philip DiFalco <sxupjd at fnma.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 96 17:56:41 -0400
Subject: Re: Where to get beer in New Brunswick or PEI

Eastern Canada, that brings back good memories.
On a canoe/fishing adventure through the North Maine Woods,
and up to Cape Bretton Island, I found Canada a sobering experience 
(literally).
But, finding Canadians extremely amicable, mostly due to the friendly and 
curious
nature of my mut, conversations were easily sparked in the campgrounds, as 
these
strangers, unprovoked, shared cans of Molson over stories deep into the night.

Molson, in a can, who'd a thunk - it were good, but then again, I was comparing
it to nothing.

- ---

- - Philip DiFalco, sxupjd at fnma.com, (202)752-2812


Return to table of contents


From: Robert Paolino <rpaolino at execpc.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 06:32:59 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Beer in PEI and NS

I have the same question as was asked recently, but about  PEI and _Nova
Scotia_ rather than New Brunswick.  I know of the Granite, and if the
original in Halifax is anywhere near as good as the one in Toronto, I'm
loking forward to it.  It seems that PEI is a beer wasteland, and I'll
resign myself to that.  Anything other than the Granite in NS?

As for the other issue of _where_ to get whatever is available, different
provinces have different laws and practises.  Ontario is ridiculous, with
beer mostly at Molson/Labatt Brewers Retail and some at LCBO and
breweries, but getting better in selection at least.  Quebec, in contrast,
is relatively good. I've gone across the river from Ottawa into Hull and
gotten Unibroue products in the supermarkets and depanneur (sp?) (gas
station convenience stores), and Belgian imports at Societe des alcools
(provincial package stores).  British Columbia is about as restrictive as
Ontario (but provincial rather than Molson/Labatt stores) but has better
selection.  Manitoba doesn't/didn't have much to offer in selection, but
had private drive-throughs as well as the provincial stores.

I'm not so concerned with _how_ it's sold or at what hours as I am with
what's available when you get in the store.  I'm not going to buy
industrial swill just for the sake of getting beer, so my question about
NS and PEI is what's available rather than where or when I buy it.  (I
will be going just into New Brunswick to be able to sail to PEI--is
anything in NB notable that I should make an effort to pick some up, if
not right at the provincial border, perhaps in Moncton?)

As for prices, yes, beer is heavily taxed, but at least Canadians get
something for their taxes, even if their health plans may be eroding in
the current political environment, at least in some provinces.  But I
would argue that the price differential between Canada and the U.S. is
greatest for the industrial swill that we don't buy anyway.  The price of
craft beers is not all that different.  In Canada you can get real beer
for not much more than the price of swill.  A six pack of craft beer may
cost $9.  So what?  Round up the exchange rate to .75, and you've got
US$6.75 for a six, which isn't a lot different from the usual US$6 range.

Anyway, back to the question, regardless of the kind of store in which I
might be buying it, what beers should I seek out in Nova Scotia (and PEI
if they have any, or in NB to the extent that I can find it close to the
NS-NB border)

Now go have a beer,


Bob Paolino (rpaolino at earth.execpc.com)
Madison

For information about the Madison Homebrewers and Tasters Guild
write to us at mhtg at stdorg.wisc.edu



Return to table of contents


From: tgaskell at syr.lmco.com
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 96 07:58:33 EDT
Subject: Re: Beer in Spaaace

Greetings Space Cadets,

A couple of issues ago, Shawn mentioned that he spoke to a NASA guy,
and he said that the astronauts were not allowed to take alcohol.
No problem!  As the thread about underage purchases of ingredients
went, we are not taking beer, just malt, hops....

In regards to spinning the fermentors:  we are in space, ie. no O2,
therefore, we can use plastic as a fermentor and just place it in
the big airlock leading to the cargo bay.  The most efficient shape
for angular acceleration is the sphere (thanks Physics 101).  Thus,
I think we have stumbled upon a use for those old Beer Balls (tm)!

Cheers,

Tom Gaskell  tgaskell at syr.lmco.com  Hog Heaven Homebrewing  Clayville, NY, USA

Return to table of contents