---

   FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
        Shawn Steele, Digest Janitor
        Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!

Contents:
  Nothing to say / Boiling grains ("David Draper")
  Nut Brown Ale (Alex Banta)
  A few questions ((Greg Krehbiel))
  RE: Subject : [None]  ||  Subject: (no subject) (Don Trotter)
  Re: Free [infected] Malt (Don Trotter)
  Re: Ultra Hops ((Chuck Volle))
  egos & email & the Homebrew Learning curve ((Scott Abene))
  Introduction (Heath `Q' Doane)
  Sources for Durst & Weyermanns malts ((Russ Brodeur))
  Re: [none]  (Spencer W Thomas)
  water or grains first? (Julio Canseco)
  Don't Leave Us Out / Hop Bags / Puffy Malt (KennyEddy at aol.com)
  Fruit beers (Douglas Thomas)
  Simple Recipe ("Mike Bernardoni")
  Re: Sparkolloid ((Jeff Smith))
  [none] (egross at emory.edu)
  Roasting Toasting Kilning / Wyeast 1968 (mislabeled?) ((Charles Burns))
  coriolis whirlpools - urban myth or small effect ? (Steve Alexander)
  CPBF Cleaning/Sanitizing (Bill Ballhorn)
  HOP GROWING ((Christian O Miller))
  HBD#2148  SUBJECTS! / Hop Picks ((John (The Coyote) Wyllie))
  RE: Subject : [None]  ||  Subject: (no subject) ((Shawn Steele))
  Hop gender ((John (The Coyote) Wyllie))
  Defining Koelsch (Robert Bloodworth)
  Copper Fermenter (Jorge Blasig - IQ)
  Gott vs Igloo (Jeff Hewit)

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "David Draper" <ddraper at laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 17:49:12 +0000
Subject: Nothing to say / Boiling grains

Dear Friends, 
 
In #2148, there were twenty-six articles.  In twelve of them, the subject was 
[none] or (no subject).  Some of these posts came from well-known HBDers, so 
newbieness (which, as Andy Walsh believes about "sterilize", is not a dirty 
word) cannot be blamed.  What gives?  Have we all decided that we are not 
really talking about anything after all? 
 
Allen Underdown asked about whether grains should be boiled, in particular 
reference to some stout recipes he has seen.  The conventional wisdom you will 
find here is never to boil specialty grains, the reason being that the pH of 
the water + spec. grain mixture during boiling will be too high and tannins can
be leached from the grain hulls, leading to astringency.  In general this is 
sound advice, of course. You can get all of what you want out of the specialty 
grains for an extract-based beer by steeping the grains in 65 to 70 deg. C 
water and adding the resulting "tea" to the brew kettle. 
 
Having said that, I would like to comment that when I was just starting, the 
only information I had was Dave Line's Brewing Beers Like Those You Buy, which 
in fact instructed brewers to boil their specialty grains, and not knowing any 
better, I did so. Now, I am the first to admit that those early beers were far 
from the quality I am capable of now, and that my palate was similarly not as 
well developed, but they were sufficiently un-horrible to suggest that perhaps,
just maybe, it could possibly be, for some situations, marginally OK to briefly
boil the grains.  I would think that it would be easier to get away with in a 
beer like a stout where there is strong bitterness anyway, and the pH of the 
dark grains in water will be lower than a mixture of, say, crystal/caramel malt
and water. 
 
Hope this helps, Dave in Sydney 
http://audio.apana.org.au/ddraper/home.html 
"Life is short; grain is cheap." ---Rich Lenihan 

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From: Alex Banta <abanta at sctcorp.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 96 08:39:57 EDT
Subject: Nut Brown Ale

Hello Fellow Homebrewers, 
 
Does anybody have a nut brown recipe that I could try out?  Thanks 
in advance. 
 
 
Alex R. Banta 
Lexington, KY 
abanta at sctcorp.com 
 
 
 
 

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From: Krehbiel at ix.netcom.com (Greg Krehbiel)
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 06:02:02 -0700
Subject: A few questions

Greetings. 
 
Just to be polite, and since this is my first post to this group, I'll 
introduce myself. 
 
I'm Greg Krehbiel, 32, happily married with five kids, an editor by 
profession and an aspiring writer. (You can check out a couple of my short 
stories at http://ccwf.cc.utexas.edu/~mooman/spilled_ink/spink.html (Vol. 
X) and http://soho.ios.com/~mcoe/thoth.html.) I've been brewing at a modest 
pace for about eight years, almost exclusively extract and partial-mash 
recipes. Recently I've been dabbling in meads, with middling success. 
 
Malty ales, stouts, bocks, barley wines and other hearty fare transport me 
to paradise, but I've been hankering to make something truly unusual -- 
something I can't buy, which is difficult because there is a fabulous beer 
store in my neighborhood. What a problem to have, eh? 
 
Papazian's Vagabond Gingered Ale is resting in secondary fermentation in my 
basement, and I'm about to make some blackberry mead. But I do have a 
couple questions, please. 
 
1. Are there any dried yeasts that perform well up to 80 degrees? Even the 
deepest recesses of my basement can stay at high temperatures for much of 
the summer -- don't ask my why, I live in Maryland, not Cuba. 
 
2. Where can I find information on bittering herbs (other than hops, of 
course)? 
 
3. What is the most unusual (but good!) flavoring you've had in a beer? 
 
Finally, I'd like to make a plug for the Beer Machine -- that mini-keg 
thing you can find in department stores. Burn the directions and throw away 
the ingredients that come in the box, but the device itself is surprisingly 
well done. It comes apart in the middle, making cleaning very easy. It has 
a CO2 injector system that allows you to squirt in pressure in moderate 
doses, as, e.g., after you tap a mug. And it fits in the fridge (but not in 
mine -- you need several gallons of milk with five kids). 
 
I know, it doesn't feel right to buy such pedestrian beer equipment, but 
this thing really works. (And no, I don't own stock in the company.) 
 
Greg 
 
 

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From: Don Trotter <dtrotter at imtn.tpd.dsccc.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 08:22:23 -0500
Subject: RE: Subject : [None]  ||  Subject: (no subject)

 
Could we try to fill out the subject line.  My Page Down finger is 
getting too much exercise. ;^) 
 
don 

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From: Don Trotter <dtrotter at imtn.tpd.dsccc.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 08:23:29 -0500
Subject: Re: Free [infected] Malt

 
Rich Moore wrote: "Just got a free 6# bag o' malt from my friendly HB 
dealer.  Only problem is that it's kinda puffy." 
 
Dont put any more money into it.  It'll probably make a beer that has 
off flavors.  I've tried it, and dumped the batch.  As with all brewing 
ingredients, they are all best when fresh. 
 
don 

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From: cvolle at alpha.che.uc.edu (Chuck Volle)
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 09:37:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Ultra Hops

 
"Bryan L. Gros"  asks: 
 
>Anyone have experience with Ultra hops?  That's all I've got left from last 
>year's 
>order, and I'm planning to brew a pale ale. 
>What can I expect from the flavor and aroma of Ultra? 
 
>Thanks. 
 
I've got a bunch of Ultra from the Bloatarian hop buy. .  I made a Pale ale 
for summer drinking and love it, now, finally!  I used the Ultra exclusively 
and all was fine till I went to add aroma to the brew by concocting a "hop 
tea" and adding it to secondary. 
 
 The tea, made from and 1 oz. steeped in 2 cups of very hot water, smelled 
heavenly.  I strained the tea after 5min steep and cooled.  Pitched to 
secondary, it clouded the previously clear beer.  I have come to learn that 
the polyphenols were the culprits. 
 
The nose this beer had was phenomenal.  It was actually too strong for three 
months or so and now has mellowed to be a delicious drink, although it is 
still a cloudy beer.  The beer is not for show but drinks great. 
 
Make a small batch of tea with a few cones to sample the flavor and aroma. 
I guarantee you'll enjoy it.  Just use "traditional" dry hopping for best 
results.  That's what I'll do, next time! 
 
We call our receipe Ultra Bliss Brew.  If you can say it three times in a 
row, you need another! 
Chuck Volle      cvolle at alpha.che.uc.edu 
 
Owner/Brewer/Imagineer/Artitect 
Creative Juices Brewery 
Cincinnati, OH 
 
Proud Member of The Bloatarian Brewing League, Cincinnati, Ohio 
 
 
 
 

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From: sabene at fcg.net (Scott Abene)
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 08:54:43 -0500
Subject: egos & email & the Homebrew Learning curve

Howdy All, 
 
Just wanted to comment on this post. Discussions such as the ones with Al 
and Dave are both informative and sometimes funny (I AM A HUMORLESS 
BASTARD!!!). 
 
Let us not forget that if everyone that subscribes to the HBD agreed with 
each other none of us would learn anything. 
 
I have been brewing for a long time, and can say that I have often learned 
things from complete novices and/or Pro's. The point of this forum is to 
learn and advance our knowledge on the subject of brewing and let us not 
forget this. Taking these posts to private Email would kill the learning 
curve for many of the HBD readers. 
 
C'ya! 
 
- -Scott 
 
>>From: Annetmark at aol.com 
>>Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 20:22:16 -0400 
>>Subject: egos & email 
>> 
>>Dave Burley just wrote concerning his ongoing exchange with AlK. He wrote to 
>>the effect that they really weren't holding knives to each others throats and
>>that they had kept a lot of it in private email. 
>> 
>>>We got off here when we realized our quotations......... 
> 
>>well, as a beginner a lot of your discourse went over my head, BUT - i look 
>>at the HBD as a fantastic learning resource, so PLEASE don't take it all to 
>>email. it's kind of like working on a jigsaw puzzle, it's hard to understand 
>>how the pieces fit together at first but as you begin to get a little basis 
>>of understanding all those little pieces begin to make sense and fit 
>>together. So thanks to all of you for your info pieces and don't think that 
>>there aren't interested people out here. besides, as has been said here 
>>before, we all have page down keys if we find something that doesn't interest
>>us. 
> 
>>Mark Tumarkin 
>>The Brewery in the Jungle 
>>annetmark at aol. 
 
################################################################ 
#                     ThE-HoMe-BrEw-RaT                        # 
#        Scott Abene <skotrat at wwa.com, sabene at fcg.net>         # 
# http://miso.wwa.com/~skotrat (the Homebrew "Beer Slut" page) # 
#                           OR                                 # 
#  http://miso.wwa.com/~skotrat/Brew-Rat-Chat/ (Brew-Rat-Chat) # 
#              "Get off your dead ass and brew"                # 
#     "If beer is liquid bread, maybe bread is solid beer"     # 
################################################################ 
 
 

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From: Heath `Q' Doane <hdoane at flemingc.on.ca>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 10:06:41 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Introduction

Hi All, 
 
   Just a quick note to introduce myself.  I'm a new member to the 
homebrew list. 
   While I'm not an actual homebrewer (yet) I do know what I like in 
a beer, and that most comercial beers are, in a word, crap.  Strong 
words, true, but stroung feelings call for no less. 
   I'm an electronics engineering student in Peterborough, Ontario. 
I have the pleasure of having a small brewpub in town, which is 
really quite good. 
 
      Well, that's me...    :) 
 
                     Heath 

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From: r-brodeur at ds.mc.ti.com (Russ Brodeur)
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 10:10:28 -0400
Subject: Sources for Durst & Weyermanns malts

Aloha, 
 
Does anyone out there have any info on sources of Durst and/or Weyermanns 
malts (German)??  TIA!! 
 
TTFN  --<- at  
 
Russ Brodeur  (r-brodeur at ds.mc.ti.com) 
Franklin, MA 
 

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From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 10:13:00 -0400
Subject: Re: [none] 

 
    Rust1d> When I go to a festival or a brewpub I expect the person 
    Rust1d> filling my mug to know something about what they are 
    Rust1d> filling it up with... 
 
At a recent local beer fest, the organizers got local homebrewers to 
pour the beers.  We got in free, and they got knowledgeable pourers. 
Usually there was also a distributor rep at the table, or, for local 
breweries, someone from the brewery.  It worked much better than the 
year before, when they'd had Red Cross volunteers pouring.  Looks like 
we'll get to do it again! 
 
For much of the evening I was pouring Whitbread PA and Mackesons 
Triple Stout.  My fellow pourer decided to offer the Mackesons both 
cold and warm.  It was fun to watch the looks on people's faces when 
we asked "cold or warm?"  The perhaps amazing thing was that most of 
them chose "warm."  You'd never get that with a "bimbo" pouring. 
 
(Disclaimer for the humor-challenged: the term "bimbo" is meant as a 
generic label for a beer-pourer who knows nothing about the beer, and 
is not meat to imply anything about the gender or appearance of the 
individual in question.) 
 
=Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI        (spencer at umich.edu) 

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From: Julio Canseco <JCANSECO at uga.cc.uga.edu>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 96 09:44:19 EDT
Subject: water or grains first?

 
Greetings BrewBorg. 
 
When doing an all grain mash; is there a reason to put the grains in first 
and then add hot water? any problems if I put the water in first? It is 
easier to measure the amount of hot water this way. TIA 
 
              jc 
         jcanseco at uga.cc.uga.edu 

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From: KennyEddy at aol.com
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 10:46:10 -0400
Subject: Don't Leave Us Out / Hop Bags / Puffy Malt

Mark Tumarkin commented on the e-mail versus HBD for discussions of various 
topics: 
 
> PLEASE don't take it all to 
> email. it's kind of like working on a jigsaw puzzle, it's hard to 
> understand how the pieces fit together at first but as you begin to get a 
> little basis of understanding all those little pieces begin to make sense 
> and fit together. 
 
Words of wisdom.  It's a fine balance to strike, between being distracted by 
debate over minor details, versus presenting what is a truly useful discourse 
on a complicated but important topic.  Private e-mail is probably the best 
vehicle for these discussions when hammering out agreement on the issues, but 
as Mark says, don't leave us *completely* out.  When an off-line discussion 
finally produces a genuine factoid or conclusion that we all can benefit 
from, hey, share it with us.  Or even if you're still mired in the 
discussion, post a summary of the information once a week or so.  Perhaps 
someone else has the answer to your point of contention.  It's more likely 
that someone will be reading when the posts are less frequent, less lengthy, 
and less acrimonious. 
 
***** 
 
By the way, Mark:  Rule o' Thumb for hops and hop bags, is to assume about 
10% better utilization from hop pellets versus plugs/whole, and assume about 
a 10% decrease in utilization with a hop bag for whichever form of hop you 
use with the bag.  Hop utilization is one of those touchy-feely things that 
is influenced by too many factors for the average homebrewer to quantify. 
 This may lead to one brewer's 30 IBU being intensely bitter while another's 
30 IBU is moderate.  It's probably reasonable to assume that unless stated 
otherwise, the hop schedule in a recipe is based on use of pellets with no 
bag.  Since pellets are used by a large percentage of brewers, a recipe will 
usually specify plugs or whole hops when that's what was used.  Perhaps a 
broad statement, but it's a place to start anyway. 
 
***** 
 
Richard Moore has a puffy bag o' malt.  The manufacturer admitted a wild 
yeast had been packaged along with the goods.  While boiling will kill the 
wild yeast, the question is, what damage (if any) has been done to the malt 
from yeast byproducts?  Off-flavors from wild yeast may not be removed by 
boiling.  And as has been discussed may times here, the chances that it's 
something more serious (like botulism) makes it hardly worth the effort. 
 
***** 
 
Ken Schwartz 
KennyEddy at aol.com 
http://users.aol.com/kennyeddy 

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From: Douglas Thomas <thomasd at uchastings.edu>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 07:59:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Fruit beers

Although I do not make beer, a good friend of mine only makes fruit 
beers.  His wife can't stand a beer without fruit, and that was that.  I 
would guess he has made 10 batches so far, all perfectly clear.  They 
range from a pineapple wit, to Super Cherry Stout (20 lbs bing 
cherries!).  Both out of this world.  When I read the discussion on 
recent posts, I decided to ask him how his turn out so wonderfully. 
Well, here goes (and here, I am embarrassed, because I make wine, and it 
is so similar) 
He determines the sugar content of the juice to be used (presses enough 
for a hydrometer reading) and adjusts for watering down (a percentage 
adjustment I guess) and then alters the amount of malt needed.  He comes 
very close to 5% alcohol each time.  Some of the bigger beers he shoots 
for 6. 
Then what he does is lightly press fruit in the bottom of the primary 
(reserving 1/3 for later), and prepare wort as usual.  It gets poured over 
and allowed to steep and then brought down to target temp.  When the 
whole thing has cooled to below 100 degrees, he adds pectic enzyme!  This 
is the kicker.  It breaks down the cellular structures, and heavy 
protageonous clusters left by the fruit.  When he racks into the 
secondary, he adds in the last third of the fruit/fruit juice.  This way 
he gets a robust taste of the fruit, combined with a fresh aroma. 
>From here on out, it is handled the same as usual, accept that he fixes 
up his racking cane with course cheese cloth, to avoid sucking up any 
pulp.  Works well, but needs clearing often.  The racking part he is 
still working on, but it does avoid accidental sediment suck! 
Hope this helps. 
Doug Thomas 

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From: "Mike Bernardoni" <mikeb at pso.siu.edu>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 10:06:34 CST
Subject: Simple Recipe

Hello,  I am new to this list and homebrewing.  Please bear with my 
ignorance.. Could someone please post a simple recipe for homebrew 
beer for the virgin beer maker???  Thanks Mike Bernardoni 
             mikeb at pso.siu.edu 

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From: snsi at win.bright.net (Jeff Smith)
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 10:16:53 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: Sparkolloid

darrenjet at ipa.net (Darren) asked about "Sparkolloid": 
 
> Has anyone experimented with this?  Does it work?  Are there any 
>undesirable effects? 
 
I while back I asked some of the same questions on the MLD.  Mark Roberson 
posted the following back to me 
 
>    Sparkloid is a zeolite, a highly structured clay whose large 
>< on a chemical scale > cavities have positive and negative charges 
>clusterd all over the place.  It literally sucks up all the large 
>molecules floating around in the mead, the ones that cause cloudiness. 
>It works magic, producing beverages of sparkling clarity.  Its 
>primary drawback is that it doesn't flocculate well; in a five 
>gallon batch I typically find a half-inch of sludge and two-three 
>inches of loose crap floating around on the bottom.  You have to 
>be pretty carefull not to disturb it when you siphon, for you 
>can easily suck up large amounts of the loose fluffies. 
> 
>    So it's a tradeoff:  you sacrifice some mead to the clarity 
>of the remainder. 
 
I'm pretty sure it would work as well for beer, but there are a lot of other 
finnings that also work well for beer. 
 
Jeff Smith | '71 HD Sprint 350SX, Temp '77 GS 400 X 
snsi at win.bright.net | Barnes, WI 
 

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From: egross at emory.edu
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 12:19:16 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [none]

Hello , 
 This is the second notice for the 4th annual Peach State Brewoff; 
the competition is sponsored by Atlanta's largest homebrew club, the 
Covert Hops Society.The PSBO is open to all homebrewers. 
The competition begins Saturday September 14th at 10am at the Atlanta 
Beer Garten Brewery Restaurant.Entries are due September 6th by 6pm. BJCP 
and AHA sanctioned, AHA guidelines.300 entries expected, ribbons, prizes, 
and the mysterious and alluring Ale Grail will be awarded that day.Those 
wishing to judge or steward please contact the organizers ASAP, we 
guarantee a good time and a great competition. Entry information can be 
requested from the organizers, Chris Terenzi ( 770 384-1448 
10:30am-7:30pmEST, or cterenzi at aol.com) or myself (lee gross, 
egross at emory.edu) or snail mailed to: Peach State Brewoff, c/o Amber 
Waves Brewing Supplies, 1860-F Spring Road, Smyrna,GA 30080. 
                                  Cheers, lee 
 

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From: cburns at egusd.k12.ca.us (Charles Burns)
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 96 13:09 PDT
Subject: Roasting Toasting Kilning / Wyeast 1968 (mislabeled?)

Al writes: 
>Don writes in his mystery recipe: 
>>4 lb Victory or Dark Munich 
> 
>These are two very different malts and I don't want anyone to get the idea 
>they are equivalent.  Dark Munich is made by kilning green malt at a higher 
>temperature than that used for Pils, Pale Ale, Vienna or (presumably) lighter 
>Munich malts.  Victory is made similarly to DeWolf-Cosysns Biscuit.  They 
>are made by taking a normally-kilned malt like Pilsner and then roasting it 
>lightly at high temperatures.  The resulting flavours are quite different, 
>the Victory and Biscuit having a toasty flavour with some similarty to bread 
>crust. 
><snip> 
>Al. 
 
Could we have a little glossary lesson here? What's the difference between 
roasting, toasting and kilning? No slaming my intelligence please, remember 
the only dumb question is the one not asked. 
 
======================================================== 
Kit writes: 
>> 
>>Hi, Ted. Being a natural born science major, I went and bought a new pouch 
>of Wyeast and put it in a 1/2 gal starter after activating.  It has taken a 
>week, but is not clearing. The fermnentation is not nearly as vigorous. 
>> 
>> So..... The culture Wyeast is now selling is not the same as they had 
>originally. I still have a slant of that. I'll be interested to taste any 
>difference. It acts a lot different than BrewTek's wit and saison as well as 
>Yeast Labs and GW Kent. I have a slant of Celis from a micro lab in Texas 
>and it is the same as BrewTek's.(IMHO) Get that yeast. Life will be much 
>better. 
>> 
>- - --- 
> 
>>Kit  Anderson 
 
This is a phenomenom I have recently discovered with #1968 that used to be 
London ESB, now called London Special. Doesn't act like the ESB, does act 
like London Ale III. Don't suppose they ever label the envelopes wrong, or 
are just lying about this strain. Anyone at Wyeast want to comment on this? 
Should I write to them and ask for another London Special and see how it does? 
===================== 
Charley 
- --------------------------------------------------------------- 
Charles Burns, Director, Information Systems 
Elk Grove Unified School District 
cburns at egusd.k12.ca.us, http://www.egusd.k12.ca.us 
916-686-7710 (voice), 916-686-4451 (fax) 
http://www.el-dorado.ca.us/~cburns/ 

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From: Steve Alexander <stevea at clv.mcd.mot.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 13:35:32 -0400
Subject: coriolis whirlpools - urban myth or small effect ?

 
Andy Walsh writes ... 
 
>This coriolis effect on water draining is one of the biggest urban 
>myths perpetuated throughout modern society. 
 
Coreolis effect is very real and impacted the outcome of a naval 
battle between the british and germans in the early part of this 
century.  The path of falling artillary shells, like flowing water are 
effected by the differential centrifugal force, caused by different 
distances from the axis if the earth (determining in the centrifugal 
force) as compared with distance to the center of the earth 
(determining gravitation force). 
 
Anyway the british and germans fought a naval battle in the south 
pacific I believe, and the German's artillary tables corrected for 
coreolis effect vs lattitude.  The British guns had a fixed correction 
factor that assumed that they would be used around 40N lattitude - 
oops! The battle was probably about as comical as war gets. 
 
What has this to do  with brewing ?  Major battle between ale and 
lager cultures - obviously. 
 
> ... The direction of a 
>whirlpool is almost entirely dependent on basin geometry and/or 
>status of the local water currents before you pull the plug (and 
>other such physical effects). 
 
OK - it is a small effect, but real.  Unless you're trying to 
whirlpool your wort in a cyclone or in while in free-fall (oh please 
don't re-ignite the beer in space thread!) you can ignore it. 
(Cross-over sport sky-dive/brewing ? I don't think so). 
 
>Now back to beer... 
 
Maybe Andy and I can get together when I'm in Oz later this year and 
perform the critical experiments re coriolis effect on draining 
inverted beer bottles -   ;^) 
 
Steve Alexander 
 

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From: Bill Ballhorn <optimg!ballhorn at insosf1.netins.net>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 96 12:16:42 CDT
Subject: CPBF Cleaning/Sanitizing

I've had a counter-pressure bottle filler for a couple of years now and 
until recently have had no problem with it. I keg all my beer and 
infrequently use the bottle filler, mostly for competition entry. I used the 
filler a few weeks ago for a recent competition and ended up with 
contamination problems in my entry, I happen to judge at the same 
competition and was able to sample the second bottle after the competition 
and it was indeed infected (a big astringent flavor that knocked the 
hop/malt aroma right out of the beer). My normally procedure for cleaning is 
to partially fill a keg with hot water and washing  soda to run through the 
lines and filler followed by two hot water rinses and then idophor (no rinse 
after idophor soak). I use the same procedure for cleaning up, eliminating 
the idophor soak. 
 
Whatever was in the filler must have flushed out because a week after 
filling a few bottles from one batch for the competition (which was the 
infected one). I used the same method to fill bottles from another batch for 
the competition, and this batch did quite well in the competition without a 
hint of infection. 
 
Any tips, hints, tricks or suggestions? 
 
As a side note: The filler I'm using has brass, air blow gun type valves on 
it with interal rubber o--rings so I'm leary about using extreme heat or 
caustics. 
 
TIA - Bill Ballhorn 
 

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From: comiller at juno.com (Christian O Miller)
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 14:40:38 PST
Subject: HOP GROWING

I'm interested in tryng my hand at growing hops. Where do I get the 
seedlings or seeds to start and can anyone recommend a good resource on 
how to go about doing it? Any info - via HBD or private e-mail -  would 
be appreciated. 
 
Christian Miller 
Brewin' in Durham 
comiller at juno.com 

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From: ccoyote at sunrem.com (John (The Coyote) Wyllie)
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 13:04:56 -0700
Subject: HBD#2148  SUBJECTS! / Hop Picks

Ok, Flame suit on folks-  Johny torch is out to sizzle! 
 
Be forewarned- this is almost totally non-brewing related, so kick me 
behind ifn you wish! 
 
Netiquette Note: 
        I see a growing trend here to send messages without subjects.  IMHO 
this BITES THE BIG ONE! 
How are we readers to know what kind of crap you are spewing and how 
quickly we should bypass your splurgings if you don't have the 
consideration to warn us of the content of you babble! 
 
I have come to appreciate that it is DAMNED NEAR IMPOSSIBLE to read each 
and every digest, volume has grown, people have complainted alot about 
this.  So scanning topics, following threads of interest is the norm. 
So.... 
 
according to my high level FPU calculations:  There were 26 articles in 
fridays digest.  Of those 12 did not have subjects, lets see 2-a million, 
taken to the square root of the inverse hypotenoose after midnight on a 
full moon,  looks to me like we have a whopping 46% submission rate with NO 
SUBJECT line.  As stated:  THIS BITES! 
 
REQUEST-  Use even a simple subject line.  Single multiple per article, I 
don't care.  I need to know how fast I should hit that dear 'ol delete 
buttin while digesting.   OK?  I will personally e-mail any transgressers 
on this with nasty comments and dirty pictures if you do not comply  :) 
The Wizard has spoken.  Now be off with you! 
 
 
Splash,  whoooosh,  fizzle,  puff, puff, puff.   Flames off. 
 
*** 
Ok, a tidbit thats brewing related, well, not really, but kinda. 
 
My overladen hops are fast approach the desirous state of pickiness.  At 
least some varieties.  My TOWERING Williamette is loaded to bare and has 
hit that choice time of Springy Cones, Slightly browning tips, Gone from 
deep rich green to a Yellower tinge.  They changed from feeling cool to the 
touch and sticky, to dry and papery. 
 
Why do I tell you this? 
1) because I have a big ego? 
2) I love my hops and can't stop talking about them? 
3) Other growers have queried when they should be picking their hops, and 
how they can tell when they are ready? 
4) Because I had to put SOMETHING in my post that dealt with some aspect of 
Brewing-related info? 
 
 
YOU PICK! 
 
 

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From: shawn at aob.org (Shawn Steele)
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 13:16:23 -0600
Subject: RE: Subject : [None]  ||  Subject: (no subject)

> Could we try to fill out the subject line.  My Page Down finger is 
> getting too much exercise. ;^) 
 
A small bug on my part (to fix another bug ;) caused some of the 
Subject: lines and at least one entire post to vanish.  It has been 
corrected. 
 
- - shawn 
Digest Janitor 
 

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From: ccoyote at sunrem.com (John (The Coyote) Wyllie)
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 13:30:57 -0700
Subject: Hop gender

***  Abreviated original post: 
>"Huyck, Randall W." <rwh0303 at hub.doh.wa.gov> 
>Subject: Hop Gender          *** <-  NOTE: USEFUL SUBJECT LINE!!!!!!!! 
>HINT HINT HINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
 
>I have some Cascades growing at my in-laws' and am beginning to wonder if 
>I have a male hop plant instead of a female.  The cones (if you can call 
>them that) are about the size of a small grape and are rather spiky, not 
>leafy like the ones I'm used to buying.  Are they  a) ok and I should 
>quit worrying and see what happens with time, b) poorly nourished, c) 
>male hops and I should dig them out, or d) none of the above?  Any 
>response, public or private would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks in 
>advance. 
 
*** 
Sounds to me like you're looking at burs.  I could be wrong here, having 
never seen (and hoping never to see!- at least not near MY garden) male 
hops.  The early stage of hop development is a 'spikey' little growth with 
hairs that are very light cream colored.  In time (with proper nutrition, 
watering, and lack of extreme pest infestation) the  "petals" of the cones 
elongate, and the whole cone structure "emerges", the hairs will dry, turn 
brown, and fall off. 
        In some young, and festered/pestered hops I had some very 
undeveloped cones.  Some never got to be more than mere burs.  But given 
another year (and extra feedings, and murphy's oil soap showers) they grew 
much better and developed BIGGER STRONGER FASTER  cones. 
 
Problem is: this late in the season you should be picking hops, not just 
developing burs.  Different varieties develop at different rates, different 
climates = different times, BUT.... in Northern Utah! we get burs in 
early-mid June, and cones by July, picking by august/sept. 
 
Unless you have other hops nearby you are "worried" about, I would not dig 
them up.  See them out, see what they do.  Feed them, water them,  fondle 
those cones,  nurture them  Love them like you in-laws probably don't. 
Your wife will probably wonder why you keep WANTING to go to the in-laws, 
be discreet and she may not catch on! 
 
 
 
 

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From: Robert Bloodworth <100334.664 at CompuServe.COM>
Date: 16 Aug 96 15:40:20 EDT
Subject: Defining Koelsch

Lou Heavne asked about a style defining Koelsch that might be available 
in Texas. Koelsch doesn't age well when it's stored warm. The most widely 
available brand is Kueppers. Unfortunately, it is the largest brewery in Koeln 
and makes (perhaps because of this) one of the worst beers in town. 
 
I've managed to make some Koelsch with Wyeast Koelsch that my german friends 
find tasty but only when I keep the primary at about 15~C or less and age at 
5~C for several weeks in a secondary. The Koelsch here is fairly light, but not
that fruity (except for maybe Reissdorf, and that's my favorite). 
 
Tip: Some of the brewers here use 5-10% dark wheat malt to get a fresher 
tasting beer. Otherwise keep it light, use an infusion mash and don't boil 
overly long or overhop. 
 
Cheers, 
 
Bob Bloodworth 
 
Koeln 
 
"Why do I even bother to brew.., ?" 
 

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From: Jorge Blasig - IQ <gisalb at elmer.fing.edu.uy>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 17:13:40 -0300 (UY)
Subject: Copper Fermenter

 
I would appreciate any opinion concerning the use of a copper tank from a 
water heater as an appropriate fermenter. 
I have found that it is difficult to find 5 gal carboys in Uruguay and 
think that a copper tank from a home water heater might be an appropriate 
container to use as a primary fermenter. 
Any opinions? 
 
Jorge Blasig 
 

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From: Jeff Hewit <jhewit at erols.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 20:46:35 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Gott vs Igloo

I am planning on buying a round cooler to make into a mash/lauter tun.  I 
have seen both Gott and Igloo brand coolers available.  Both are labeled for 
drinking water.  I recall that in a previous posting, someone indicated that 
the Gott was rated for hot as well as cold liquid, and that the Igloo was 
rated for cold only.  I looked all over the packaging for both items, and 
could find no reference to hot liquid.  Does anyone have any direct 
knowledge about the materials used in each of these coolers and whether or 
not one will stand up to hot liquid better than the other?  My guess is that 
since they are both sold as drinking water containers, the manufactuers may 
not want to infer they have other uses, even if they can stand up to hot 
liquid.
 
Thanks in advance for any input. 
 
 
- ---------------------------------- 
Jeff Hewit - Midlothian, Virginia 
 

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