---

   FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
        Shawn Steele, Digest Janitor
        Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!

Contents:
  Re: RIMS Heater Element (hollen at vigra.com)
  13" kegs on 13" burners ("Mark C. Bellefeuille")
  Re: Third try of admission.. reject or cancel? ((Shawn Steele))
  last post ("Mark C. Bellefeuille")
  Egyptian brewing / COPS ((David C. Harsh))
  BrewCraft RIMS Unit (RUSt1d?)
  COPS revisited ("Bryan L. Gros")
  mashing Guinness at 158 (Charles Epp)
  infected grain (Craig A Mayr)
  Motorized mills, Finings ("David R. Burley")
  Lactose & Fruit Beer (KennyEddy at aol.com)
  Re: why powdered amylase / Re: jet burner efficiency ("Keith Royster")
  what is dry hopping? ((Tom Lochtefeld (Risk Mgt)))
  AllGrain-to-Extract Conversion (KennyEddy at aol.com)
  Typo Correction / Thermometers / Phenolic Beers (KennyEddy at aol.com)
  Addendum to AllGrain-to-Extract Post (KennyEddy at aol.com)
  Neophyte dry hop question (David Leugs)
  Winners from Made in the Shade-IV ((Jeff Handley & Gene Almquist))
  Airstone Or Not ((LaBorde, Ronald))

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: hollen at vigra.com
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 96 08:03:05 PDT
Subject: Re: RIMS Heater Element

>> From: Jim Elden <elden at accumedic.com> 
>> 
>> ...I was planning to use a standard 
>> 4500W water-heater replacement element such as may be found at Home 
>> Depot.  The only units I saw mount with a ~3"" square flange and >gasket 
 
There have been enough questions about this lately, that I feel that I 
should take up digest bandwidth.   If you are not interested in RIMS, 
sorry.  I have kept the discussion in private Email up to this point, 
but *many* postings make it clear it is worth posting. 
 
The average heater element you can buy in the "home store" for hot 
water heaters are *high density* elements.  These are typically about 
5000 watts in a loop about 12" long, or a total of 24" of element. 
These are too powerful and will scorch the wort.  Also, they are 
galvanized, which in contact with wort is not a good thing. 
 
The proper heater element to use is a low density Nikalloy one which 
is essentially stainless steel.  One of these with a rating of 240v 
5000 watts is about 72" when uncoiled, it is bent back on itself 
twice.  When run at 110v, it puts out a total of 1250 watts, which 
ends up being a watt density of about 10 watts per square inch.  On 
top of that, it has a 1" straight pipe thread which threads into a 
1 1/2" by 1" reducing bushing just perfectly.  This is the heater 
element recommened by Rodney Morris in his article on how to build a 
RIMS in Zymurgy Special Issue 1992 on  Gadgets.   It is obtainable 
from W.W. Grainger for about $28.  The Part # is 2E767.  If you are 
planning on a 10 gal or larger system, it would be wise to get a 
2E768 which is 6000 watts, but because it is longer, maintains the 
same heat density.  You *must* have adequate wattage for your mash 
size and the watt density *must* be low.  Add wattage by getting a 
bigger, longer heater, or putting a second heater in series.  Never 
run these heaters on 240v or you run the risk of severe scorching of 
the wort. 
 
While there are several commercial heater element companies which 
provide heater elements which are suitable, the one from Grainger is 
the easiest to obtain. 
 
Again, the two critical factors are stainless steel (also called 
Nikalloy or Inconel) sheath and low watt density, around 10 wpsi. 
 
dion 
 
- -- 
Dion Hollenbeck (619)597-7080x164                 Email: hollen at vigra.com 
Sr. Software Engineer - Vigra Div. of Visicom Labs  San Diego, California 

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From: "Mark C. Bellefeuille" <mcb at abrams.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 08:34:47 -0700 (MST)
Subject: 13" kegs on 13" burners

Kirk Harralson wrote: 
 
snip 
>that the diameter of the one I was going to order was only 13 inches. 
>Since I am planning to use converted 15.5 gallon kegs, I need a wide, 
>stable base, and I don't think 13" is going to be sufficient.  I know 
>would be a good interim step.  Does anyone know a SIMPLE way to make 
snip snip 
My *simple* solution. 
I solved it by using a steel bed rail (nice to be a packrat) due to be 
recycled. The rail looked like a 2"x2"(approx) piece of angle iron; but, 
not as thick as the angle iron I see at the home stores. 
 
I measured across the burner stand and then added 1/4" (In your case 
13.25"). Then I marked the rail at this interval. I used a hacksaw to 
cut out a 'V' (from only one side of the angle iron) with the base of the 
'V' at the bend of the angle iron. 
 
At this point I used a propane torch to heat the uncut piece at each of 
marks and bent the rail into a square. The extra 2 dashes represent an 
additional 2" that I bent to overlap the other end when the square was 
formed. 
 
Looking down at the rail it looked like this: 
 
|----13.25"---\/----13.25"---\/----13.25"---\/----13.25"---|-- 
 
Of coarse with ascii art I can't show the line representing the down (or 
up) side of the angle iron... 
 
And after all the pounding (includeing slightly burned and singed hair on 
my arm: that rail got *HOT*). 
I've got a large square of iron that I set on top of my round burner stand. 
The down side of the angle doesn't let it shift. The square corners provide 
lots of area for the keg to sit on. 
 
The iron has rusted and gets quite hot while brewing. And I'm sure it will 
not last forever; but, the kegs don't wobble. 
I've used it on three different stands and it worked on all three... 
 
Good brewing... 
Mark 
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
Mark C. Bellefeuille                                    mcb at abrams.com 
BEER! Because Barley makes lousy bread!                 (602) 7599273 

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From: shawn at aob.org (Shawn Steele)
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 09:34:42 -0600
Subject: Re: Third try of admission.. reject or cancel?

> I am using my alternate mail address to see what is going on.  If 
> this does not appear, I will be canceling out due to CENSORSHIP... 
 
YIKE! Please don't spread nasty rumors!  1. It's against the wishes of 
the HBD to be censored  2. I don't have nearly enough time to read all 
of the HBD before it created. 
 
Since the mail from your "alternate address" worked and the other 
address didn't, I would suspect a mailer or connection problem.  Our 
computer will send you a message whether or not your message makes it 
to the list.  If it is rejected it is because "(UN)SUBSCRIBE" appears 
in your message, your message has no subject or says "Re: Homebrew 
Digest #..." or your message looks like some other administrative, 
vacation, or error message.  Our computer WILL tell you exactly what 
language it objected to. 
 
If people have problems submitting to the HBD, please let me know 
(shawn at aob.org).  If it's definitly not appearing, Cc: me and the 
Digest, that way I can find out what's happening. 
 
- - shawn 
Digest Janitor 

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From: "Mark C. Bellefeuille" <mcb at abrams.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 08:43:59 -0700 (MST)
Subject: last post

 
I'm glad the posts are sent back. 
I reread my post and noticed that I did not say that the 'V' was actually 
at 45 degrees. If you use 45 degrees after being bent the will be little or 
no gap between the top piece of the square. (Depends on how close you stay 
to that 45degree angle while you're sawing.) 
Also: A sabre saw would have made it a lot easier: I just don't have one... 
Mark 
 

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From: dharsh at alpha.che.uc.edu (David C. Harsh)
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 12:00:01 -0400
Subject: Egyptian brewing / COPS

Greetings! 
        The journal SCIENCE, Vol. 273, pp. 488-490, dated July 26, 1996 
contains an article analyzing residues of Egyption baking and brewing by 
electron microscopy.  Microstructure of the residue is studied to help 
determine details of the brewing process.  This is the same work that was 
presented in a Learning Channel documentary as funded by Scottish and 
Newcastle Breweries, just a little more scientific presentation of the 
results. 
        Your interest may vary... 
 
About the (two+ year old) COPS episode:  I was most amused by the officer's 
comment that "the copper coil proves he was running a still" in reference 
to the immersion chiller.  But seriously (and cynically), do you *expect* 
journalistic integrity on an infotainment pseudo-news show?  How popular 
would that be? 
 
Dave 
 
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&& 
&                     Dave Harsh                         & 
&          DNRC Minister of Bloatarianism  O-            & 
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&& 
 
 

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From: RUSt1d? <rust1d at li.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 96 12:10:23 -0700
Subject: BrewCraft RIMS Unit

At first I was disappointed in my BrewCraft RIMS unit. However after 
dwelling on its benefits as opposed to it downfalls I am happy with 
my purchase. Rated at 950W, the unit is not suited to bring mash temps 
up quickly for larger batches. However, the unit will have no problem 
maintaining and tweaking temps on larger batch sizes. 
 
Since my mash tun will be a sanke keg, I plan on using propane to 
make large temp jumps and the BC unit to tweak and hold the temp 
exactly where I want it. These benefits will become much more 
apparent when I'm mashing thru the snow (in a one horse open sleigh). 
 
BrewCraft has some heavier duty units comming out soon. 
 
1056 for president, Cascades for VP... 
 
- -- 
John Varady 
Boneyard Brewing Co. 
"Ale today, Gone tomorrow" 
 
 
 

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From: "Bryan L. Gros" <grosbl at ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 12:08:00 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: COPS revisited

Apparently the COPS bust homebrewer episode aired again. 
 
I wanted to comment on a couple things.  Apparently, according 
to the episode, the police don't always know the laws they 
are enforcing (although this guy was doing some illegal things) 
and you don't want them after you.  Distillation is illegal. 
 
I've heard people comment their non-homebrew friends will 
sometimes say "you know bob makes his own beer?  Yea, 
he's got a still in his garage".  Be careful about this kind 
of comment and correct these people.  You don't want a cop 
knocking on your door looking twice at your wort chiller 
because someone reported that you're making moonshine. 
Those of us in the South need to be especially wary since 
there are large, outspoken groups who think that alcohol 
is inherently evil, whether homebrewing is or is not. 
 
Just keep your ears open. 
 
Now back to the regularly scheduled fun stuff.... 
 
   - Bryan Gros 
    grosbl at ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu 
    Nashville, TN 
    Music City Brewers:  http://www.theporch.com/~homebrew1/ 
 

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From: Charles Epp <chuckepp at lark.cc.ukans.edu>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 12:42:16 -0500
Subject: mashing Guinness at 158

Several days ago, Pete Finlay of England posted an interesting note 
about a brewery tour at Guinness.  He said that the knowledgeable former 
Guinness employee leading the tour reported that Guinness mashes at 158. 
This surprised me, given the dryness of Guinness stout.  What gives?  Is 
this an error in communication, or does Guinness actually mash that 
high?  While I'm on the subject, one of Dave Miller's books argues that 
dry stout recipes containing large percentages of flaked barley should 
be given a protein rest before being brought to saccharification 
temperatures.  Is Miller incorrect on this?  For those of you who hate 
to see the thread on mashing at 158 revived again, I apologize in 
advance (for what it's worth). 
 
Chuck 

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From: Craig A Mayr <craigm at U.Arizona.EDU>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 10:43:49 -0700 (MST)
Subject: infected grain

Steve Alexander writes: 
>There is also 
>one grain fungus which seems to produce a carcinogenic by-product, 
>which causes pancreatic cancer - usually quite deadly.(snip) 
 
I think what Steve is talking about is Aflatoxin B.  Actually this is a 
group of toxins produced by Aspergillus flavus fungus.  I wouldn't worry 
too much about them on your grain and getting into your beer and giving 
you pancreatic cancer.  These compounds have been reported to naturally 
occur in peanuts, peanut meal, cottonseed meal, corn, dried chili peppers 
etc. Ergo, if you've eaten peanut butter sandwiches, you've probably gotten 
these in your diet already.  Furthermore, the growth of these molds on 
your grain does not always indicate the presence of toxins since the yield 
of toxins depends on growing conditions (moisture, pH, temp, substrates 
and aeration) as well as genetic components.  I can't comment on whether 
or not these compounds are destroyed by boiling or not.  Their melting 
temp is typically between 286 and 289 C.  I would *guess* that these are 
stable through a boil.  There is no doubt, though, that these compounds 
are carcinogens (cancer causing), but IMHO if you are going to drink beer, 
you're getting exposed to a much more dangerous compound at far higher 
levels than the aflatoxins. Let's face it, to live is to be at risk of 
getting cancer, drink beer. 
 
Craig. 
 
- -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ 
 
Craig A. Mayr 
Department of Pharmacology and Toxicology, 
and the Arizona Cancer Center 
Tucson, AZ  85724 
 
 
 
 
 

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From: "David R. Burley" <103164.3202 at CompuServe.COM>
Date: 21 Aug 96 13:42:00 EDT
Subject: Motorized mills, Finings

Brewsters: 
 
I've been out of town and busy with British guests for a week or so, so I hope 
my late responses aren't too untimely, not having seen later HBDs. 
 
Todd Kirby asks about how to motorize a Maltmill.  I have never seen a 
Maltmill(R), but I have motorized two different roller mills successfully and 
easily.  I took a 1/4 inch carriage bolt with a hexagonal head and cut it down 
with a hacksaw into a "T" shaped head and filed to fit into the keyed port for 
the hand crank. I then put this bolt into a 3/8in drill and supported the drill
at the same level as the crank port with pieces of wood nailed to a large flat 
compressed board to which I had screwed the mill. A hole in this board provided
a place for the milled malt to fall into an aluminum dispan below. The board 
was
fastened to the dishpan with small "c" clamps and the trigger on the electric 
drill was held in the "on" position with a larger "c" clamp, until I remembered
that my drill can be locked in the "on" position with the push of a button. The
dishpan will hold at least 10 pounds of crushed malt.  Plastic sheeting taped 
around the exit port of the mill guides the crushed grain and keeps the dust 
under control almost totally. Easy to build and to disassemble for storage. 
- ------------------------------------------------- 
I have noticed miscellaneous comments on finings recently and would like to get
a short thread going to find out others' experience in clarifying beer ( using 
finings and filters, etc.), esp chill haze,  without seriously affecting 
organoleptic properties. 
 
I have often been puzzled by Miller's suggestion to use both bentonite and 
polyclar at the same time, since I had the impression that while they work 
differently re adsorbing vs complexing,  they have opposite charge properties 
when dispersed and should cancel each other out, I think. - Is this correct? 
Maybe adding Polyclar first, allowing it to react and then the bentonite makes 
sense - comments? The comment below on Polyclar  doesn't clarify this.  Also, 
the comment the other day ( or was that in a private e-mail?) that because 
Irish
Moss doesn't work at  below 5.2 or whatever and does at a higher pH, somehow 
disproves that the  IM electrostatic model for clarification is incorrect. 
Seems to me that at the lower pH, the IM sites could be populated by protons 
and
therefore wouldn't have a net negative charge at low pH, but would have at a 
higher pH. Seems to fit this electrostatic model OK. Comments? 
 
Further on this subject, I just received the 96 catalog from Fall Bright, The 
Winemakers Shoppe, Dundee, NY 
 ( no affil. etc.) and they had a nice short summary on the subject of 
clarifying aids (with an emphasis on use 
in wines) which I hope is interesting to HBDers for its general content as well
as those making fruit beers 
and wines as well as beer: Following is a re-typed (by me) version of their P. 
15: 
 
"GELATIN has a *positive charge* and precipitates negative charged tannin. It 
is
excellent to reduce tannin. Sprinkle (2 grams or approx. 1 tsp per 5 gallons 
onto cold wine. soak 5 minutes, warm until dissolved, but avoid excessive 
heating. If using in combination with tannin, add tannin first ( dissolved in 
wine) by racking 
 the wine onto the tannin solution.  Let rest for 24 hours and add dissolved 
gelatin. Allow 2-3 weeks to settle. There might be a slight color loss. Gelatin
is not usually recommended for white wine. 
 
SPARKOLLOID is a polysaccharide in a diatomaceous (earth)* carrier with a 
*positive charge*. It does not strip color. For 5 gallons, dissolve 2.3 grams  
(1-3/4 tsp) in 1/2 cup of boiling water. Simmer about 15 minuntes until mixture
is smooth and creamy, may agitate in a blender.  Add some wine to thin and add 
to wine.  Agitate well.  Wait 1-2 weeks after use for settling. 
 
BENTONITE has a *negative charge*  Wines with a higher pH will require more 
bentonite (to)* obtain the 
same results of less at a lower pH. Use 2.4 to 4.5 grams per 5 gallons. (2.6   
grams of granular Bentonite = 1/2 plus 1/8 tsp).  Mix Bentonite with 5 oz. of 
water. let stand overnight or for at least 2 hours. Mix some wine back into the
slurry and add to wine.  This is fast acting.  You can probably rack in 24 
hours. 
 
EGG WHITE is used only on red wines. Separate the yolk ( discard), add a pinch 
of salt and whip to a froth. 
1 egg per 5 gallons. Mix beaten egg in 10 times the volume of wine and add to  
the main volume. 
 
PVPP OR POLYVINYL-POLYPYRROLIDONE, alias Polyclar  Reacts with tannins and 
reduces browning due 
 to a strong affinity for catechins.   Use .28 to .95 grams per gallon ( .28 
gms. = 1/2 tsp.) for wine and beer.  Filtration recommended after use. 
 
PECTIC ENZYME added at crushing helps release juice form ( sic) pulp increasing
juice yields and improving rates of settling, clarification, fining and 
filtration.  Normal use at crushing is 4-8 drops per gallon on hybrids and 
viniferas; 10-14 drops per gallon on American grape varieties  and double that 
on fruits like peaches, plums,apples,strawberries.  Let set on enzyme for 4-8 
hours before pressing.  Cover fruit with plastic to prevent oxidation. 
 
References: Winemaking Basics(Ough), Technology of Wine Making (Amerine) and 
instruction labels from 
 Fall Bright." 
 
N.B. ( word)* is my inclusion to clarify the text  - DRB 
- -------------------------------------------------------- 
 
Keep on brewin' 
 
Dave Burley 
 

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From: KennyEddy at aol.com
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 13:45:54 -0400
Subject: Lactose & Fruit Beer

Bill Stoughton asked: 
 
> During the recent discussions on adding fruit it was mentioned that 
> residual sweetness was desirable in a fruit beer to accentuate the 
> fruit flavor, and that the addition of crystal malt would supply this 
> sweetness.  Could lactose also be used to increase sweetness, and thus 
> improve the fruit character?  If so, at what stage should it be added 
> to the brewing process? 
 
I've only used lactose once; two ounces in five gallons made a perceptible 
difference in mouthfeel with just a subtle hint of sweetness (lactose isn't 
all that "sweet").  I suspect it would work fine for the purpose of enhancing 
fruit flavor; maybe up to 1/4 lb depending on how much effect you're after. 
 Since it's not fermentable, it can be added at any stage of production.  If 
not added directly to the boiling wort, it might be best to make a boiled 
syrup (instead of just tossing it in as-is) just to head off any infection 
worries. 
 
While I'm on the topic of fruit beers, I read an article at The Brewery 
listing the sugar contents of many (MANY) fruits.  As I am preparing to brew 
a cherry porter, I found this useful.  According to the list, cherries have a 
sugar content by weight of 14%.  Using 6 lb of cherries results in 0.84 lb of 
additional sugar; in 5 gallons this adds about seven points of gravity. 
 Depending on attenuation, this results in between 0.50% and 0.75% additional 
alcohol and perhaps four points of final gravity. 
 
Based on this perspective, I'd have to say that any effects of "thinning" of 
mouthfeel due to the additional alcohol will be minimal.  However, adding 
sweetness for fruit flavor perception is perhaps still important; again, 
mashing technique, addition of sweet malts, or, as Bill suggests, adding 
lactose, are possible approaches.  Using a less-attenuative yeast is another 
good plan that someone recently added. 
 
***** 
 
Ken Schwartz 
KennyEddy at aol.com 
http://users.aol.com/kennyeddy 

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From: "Keith Royster" <keith.royster at ponyexpress.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 13:53:03 -0500
Subject: Re: why powdered amylase / Re: jet burner efficiency

Steve Alexander <stevea at clv.mcd.mot.com> offers an excellent response 
to my questions about adding powdered amylase to my mash (thanks 
Steve) and then asks.. 
 
> The question is *WHY* do you want to add foreign amylases to your 
> mash? 
 
The answer is that I had some on hand left over from fixing a stuck 
fermentation and I was just wondering what I would get if I tossed it 
in a mash.  I was hoping for increased efficiency, but from the 
responses I've gotten it seems that I will just get a drier, thinner 
beer.  Thanks, but no thanks.  I'll save it for the next stuck 
fermentation. 
 
- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 
 
Kirk R Fleming <flemingk at usa.net> then responds to Gregory 
<GGRE461 at ecy.wa.gov> who had responded to Chuck and Grace Burkins 
<burkins at oa.net> about jet VS ring burners: 
 
CHUCK> Has anyone doing all grain actually scorched some wort, or is 
CHUCK> that a momism? I was sent the jet style in error, 
 
KIRK> Well, if anyone says "Jet burners scorch the wort" that's a 
KIRK> generalization. As with many generalizations, it's definitely 
KIRK> true in specific cases, but not generally so. With 50 or so 
KIRK> batches, I've scorched once, and it was very minor and it was 
KIRK> in the mash tun, not the kettle. 
 
Just as another data point: I use to use a jet burner (170KBtu) 
before I got my ring burner (35KBtu) and I had scorching on the 
bottom of my kettle on almost every batch.  I don't with my ring 
burner.  My jet burner has since been court-marshalled (sp?) and is 
only used for heating my strike water. 
 
CHUCK> My guess is that the radial style is more efficient 
 
KIRK> *This* may be a momism.  I don't know, but I think jet burners are 
KIRK> real gas hogs.  Maybe BTU per cu ft of gas is worse, or maybe they 
KIRK> simply deliver energy to the the pot less efficiently, can't say. 
 
CHUCK> (ring burner) gives better control. 
 
KIRK> Well, that's pretty much true, except you *can* turn jet 
KIRK> burners down pretty low but then it's pretty clear they aren't 
KIRK> burning too efficiently. 
 
Uh.. Kirk, aren't you contradicting yourself here.  In the first 
paragraph you say that "this may be a momism" but then you conclude 
in the second paragraph that when you turn them (jets) down "it's 
pretty clear they aren't burning too efficiently." 
 
I think that is the whole point.  It's not the single jet per se 
that is causing the wort to scorch.  It's that these jet burners 
tend to be 150+KBtu monsters that are designed to run full blast or 
not at all.  If you try to turn them down, which is necessary to 
keep your wort from scorching (in my experiences), then they burn 
very inefficiently which is evident by the amount of soot on the 
bottom of my kettles.  (Perhpas Kirk's homemade jet burner is not 
like this.) You can also get ring burners at 170KBtu that need to be 
turned down too.  The difference is that you have more control of 
the oxygen to fuel ratio and you can therefore turn them down to an 
appropriate level and still burn efficiently thus not wasting fuel. 
 
Cheers! 
 
Keith Royster - Mooresville, North Carolina 
"An Engineer is someone who measures it with a micrometer, 
marks it with a piece of chalk, and cuts it with an ax!" 
 
mailto:Keith.Royster at ponyexpress.com 
http://dezines.com/ at your.service - at your.service 
http://dezines.com/ at your.service/cbm -Carolina BrewMasters club page 
http://dezines.com/ at your.service/RIMS -My RIMS (rated COOL! by the Brewery) 

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From: toml at fcmc.COM (Tom Lochtefeld (Risk Mgt))
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 96 13:58:15 EDT
Subject: what is dry hopping?

I see the term "dry-hopping" but don't know what it means.  Can some-one 
give me a quick synopsis of what it is and how it is done? 
 
 
Thanks, 
 
 
Tom 
 

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From: KennyEddy at aol.com
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 13:59:00 -0400
Subject: AllGrain-to-Extract Conversion

Chris D'Oreo (sorry! just had to!) asked about converting all-grain recipes 
to extract. 
 Chris, part of the "benefit" of all-grain is the ability to brew some truly 
complex (in character) beers by blending a variety of grains.  Lumping all 
the grains into a single "extract" will probably not even approach the 
original recipe, and you will likely be disappointed in the result.  However, 
there are some things you can do to reasonably emulate an all-grain recipe. 
 
How much extract = how much grain is a bit nebulous since there are many 
factors affecting the extraction of sugar from the grain.  However, it might 
be reasonable to make certain assumptions about the ingredients and process; 
then the problem is greatly simplified.  I've outlined a simple conversion 
procedure below. 
 
Second, not all of the grains in an all-grain bill need to be mashed. 
 Steeping is adequate for many grains such as the roasted or caramelized ones 
(chocolate, crystal, etc).  So break these grains out of the recipe and 
simply steep them as "specialty grains".  Add them (use a grain bag for 
maximum relaxation) to the cold brewing water; once the water is around 155F 
turn the heat down or off and let them steep at this temperature for at least 
30 minutes (maximizes extraction and simulates the thermal conditions of a 
mash rest).  Remove, rinse (or at least bob the bag up and down before 
draining), discard, and continue brewing as you normally would brew an 
extract recipe. 
 
Third, scope out the variety of specialty extracts available.  In addition to 
"pale extract", you can get Munich extract, wheat extract, etc.  I've even 
seen extract for chocolate and other roasted grains.  Use these wherever the 
all-grain recipe calls for those grains.  Also, be selective about your "pale 
extract".  Use a British pale ale extract when British 2-row pale ale malt is 
called for; use a German pilsner extract when pilsner malt is specified, etc. 
 This'll put you one step closer to the intended result.  Although some "bulk 
extract" is of high quality, you're better off getting something that you 
*know* is of high quality.  Ask your homebrew supplier for help in selecting 
the "right" extract. 
 
Finally, use only pale extract to substitute for pale grain.  Forget the 
colored amber and dark stuff.  Obtain your color and flavor character from 
the specialty grains.  Remember that when you are brewing all-grain, this is 
precisely what you are doing.  I would also lean towards using liquid extract 
instead of DME, if only because you "know what you're getting" (DME is 
usually bulk-packed). 
 
So how much extract should you use?  Figure it this way: 
 
1)  For each grain you are converting to extract, obtain an "average" 
potential extract figure (points per pound per gallon).  The Zymurgy Great 
Grain issue (last year) has a very comprehensive table of these numbers.  For 
example, for British 2-row, let's assume 1.038 (38 points). 
 
2)  If you're using syrup extract, figure a pt/lb/gal of say 35 points (1.035 
SG).  For dry extract, use 42 points (1.042).  If you have a reliable figure 
fo r your extract, then of course, use it instead. 
 
3)  Assume the all-grain recipe is based on an average efficiency of 75%. 
 Again, if you know the average efficiency is different than 75%, use it 
instead. 
 
4)  OK, the gravity that the 2-row pale malt will contribute to the total 
batch is 38 points x 75% efficiency x #lbs divided by #gallons.  Let's assume 
the recipe is for 5 gallons and there's 7 lb of 2-row. 
 
     Total Batch Points = (grain pt/lb/gal) x (eff%/100) x #lb / #gal 
                                 = 38 x 0.75 x 7 / 5 = 40 points 
 
5)  Using syrup (35 pt/lb/gal), we now need to solve 40 = 35 x #lb / 5; do 
the 
math and find #lb = 5.7 lb.  So 
 
                #lb extract = (total batch grain points) x gallons / (extract 
pt/lb/gal) 
 
Since things like the exact points contribution of syrup, the potential 
extract for the grain, and the all-grain efficiency vary (and are often 
guesses), feel free to round off your results to the nearest convenient 
figure.  For the above example, 6 lb of pale extract instead of 5.7 would be 
fine if it comes in 6 lb cans. 
 
One final suggestion:  extract often ferments out "thinner" than an all-grain 
recipe might, so adding some extra dextrin malt to the steeping grains might 
help emulate a more realistic body / mouthfeel.  I understand Laaglander 
extract is noted for its low attenutation; using it as part of your pale 
extract bill might boost the final product's character as well. 
 
***** 
 
Ken Schwartz 
KennyEddy at aol.com 
http://users.aol.com/kennyeddy 
 

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From: KennyEddy at aol.com
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 13:58:55 -0400
Subject: Typo Correction / Thermometers / Phenolic Beers

In my last post, I erroneously pressed the "mash" key instead of the 
"fermentation" key on my BrewType Keyboard (TM).  Enzymes are used to unstick 
stuck *fermentations*, not stuck *mashes*. 
 
***** 
 
Guy Gregory asked about thermometers: 
 
> The question is, what type of thermometer is favored for mashing, 
> and what sort of calibration procedures do experienced homebrewers follow 
> to ensure their thermometers read consistently batch to batch? 
 
I like electronic thermometers, but then, I have a gadget fetish (see my web 
page, URL below). 
 
The simplest thing to do without having access to a "calibration standard" 
thermometer is to expose the thermometer to a *known-accurate temperature* 
and adjust it accordingly (duh).  Mechanical thermometers are usually 
adjusted by turning a locknut, which spins the dial in either direction to 
line up the pointer with the correct temperature.  The bad thing about this 
is that it's a "one-point" calibration.  It essentially assumes that if the 
thermometer is calibrated at temperature "x", that it will be accurate at all 
temperatures.  For most of these thermometers, it's a pretty decent 
assumption, at least within a couple degrees or so.  This is true only 
because the "guts" of the thermometer is designed to respond as such.  If 
some variation or flaw in its manufacture causes a slope deviation (one 
degree change in temperature does *not* correcpond to one degree change on 
the dial), then the thermometer is inherently inaccurate. 
 
Electronic thermometers often use a "two-point" calibration.  The thermometer 
is adjusted at two temperatures at extreme ends of the useful range. 
 Assuming that the sensing cicuitry responds "linearly" to temperature 
changes, the straight line drawn between the two calibration points defines 
the response. 
 
To calibrate the dial thermometer, it's simplest perhaps to do the two-point 
check with "known" temperature references (since you don't have a reference 
thermometer).  While you can't "calibrate-in" any more accuracy than already 
exists, you can at least see whether the thermometer has an acceptable basic 
accuracy.  FIll a glass with ice and add water.  Allow a few minutres for the 
icewater to come to equilibrium (stirring is required to even out the 
temperature distribution in the water).  Place the thermometer in the glass, 
and while stirring the water with the thermometer, adjust the dial for 32 
degrees. 
 
Now you need to do a "hot" measurement.  Get some water boiling, and 
carefully perform the same measurement, verifying the thermometer against the 
temperature of boiling water *at your elevation* (in El Paso, at 3000 ft, for 
example, it's 205 degrees, so it does make a significant difference). 
 
Notice I said "verifying", not "adjusting".  Since you can only perform a 
one-point adjustment on the dial thermometer, changing the "hot" setting will 
change the "cold" setting as well.  If, after doing a cold-point calibration, 
there is a large discrepancy at the hot point, your thermometer has a basic 
accuracy problem.  If the error is less than 3-4 degrees, that's probably 
about as good as you can do, and perhaps you can just "split the difference" 
between the two extreme readings.  If it's more, or if the basic accuracy 
isn't "good enough', there's one other thing you can do, if you have or can 
borrow an accurate reference thermometer.  Do a one-point calibration at the 
median temperature of the range of interest; that is, if you use it for 
mashing between 120F and 170F, calibrate it at 145F.  This minimizes the 
error in the mashing range, but it's likely to be way off at very cold or 
very hot temperatures. 
 
***** 
 
Ian Smith has phenolic beer (bummer dude).  Sounds like you took care of your 
water, so I'll guess that your fermentation temperature was fairly high? 
 Above 75F?  That will do it. 
 
***** 
 
Ken Schwartz 
KennyEddy at aol.com 
http://users.aol.com/kennyeddy 

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From: KennyEddy at aol.com
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 15:09:55 -0400
Subject: Addendum to AllGrain-to-Extract Post

Another important aspect of all-grain recipes -- unmalted adjuncts requiring 
mashing -- needs to be considered when converting recipes.  Insert the 
following into my previous post on the topic: 
 
***** 
Fourth, some other ingredients used in all-grain brewing do not have "extract 
equivalents" but still must be mashed in order to "work".  Unmalted wheat, 
flaked barley, flaked maize are common examples. In these cases, you'll have 
to do a partial-mash to account for this.  But don't panic -- it doesn't even 
have to "look like" a partial-mash.  Simply add about a pound or so of pale 
malt and/or wheat malt to your steeping grains.  This provides enzymes to 
convert the adjunct's starches to sugars, as long as the quantity of unmalted 
adjuncts is not too high.  You should try to follow any instructions 
concerning mashing temperature rests as closely as is practical.  Note that 
if the recipe calls for wheat malt, try to use it instead of wheat extract, 
since it is very high in enzyme power which will help with conversion of 
these starchy adjuncts.  Of course, if several pounds of wheat malt is 
involved in the recipe, you might want to use extract for the bulk of it.  To 
be accurate, you should decrease the remaining amount of pale / wheat malt 
that you plan to convert to extract, by the amount you used for the 
partial-mash. 
 
***** 
 
Thanks 
 
Ken 

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From: David Leugs <leud at calvin.edu>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 15:21:33 +0000
Subject: Neophyte dry hop question

Sheepishly de-lurking, he shared a story and a question: 
 
I've been home-brewing from hopped extracts for about a year now (not 
sure I'm equal to the all-grain task, yet.)  Last Wed, a week today, I 
brewed a batch of "Edme Super Brew" I.P.A.  I followed the 
instructions, pitched the yeast, etc, no problem.  By Sat. the ferment 
was basically complete (a little quick, but what the heck.) 
 
In the meantime, I had been reading about dry-hopping, and although I 
understand that the procedure doesn't help bitterness/taste as much as 
it does nose, I decided to give it a try with the I.P.A. already in 
the carboy.  I bought a 1 oz. packet of Kent Golding hop pellets and 
added them to the mix on Sunday afternoon.  Almost immediately after 
re-capping, the bubbler began to change levels (again) even though 
fermentation had stopped.  It has continued to bubble consistently 
ever since!  It lets off a stream of bubbles about every 15-20 
seconds. (The bubbler is the kind with the little cannister inverted 
inside a bigger one and a plastic cap.)  I see NO bubbles rising from 
the brew.  There is NO foam on top.  The ale has cleared beautifully 
except for some hop leaf pieces on the top (most have settled to the 
bottom.)  There is NO sign of infection that I can see.  It tastes 
young of course, but very good! 
 
Questions:  Is this normal?  -OR-  Did I start a secondary ferment? 
Were the pellets spoiled, and did they introduce bad yeast into the 
mix? (Who can tell, huh?)  Can I bottle?  Or should I continue to be 
patient? 
 
leud 
 
David Leugs 
Grand Rapids, MI 

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From: homebrew at infomagic.com (Jeff Handley & Gene Almquist)
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 12:19:51 -0700
Subject: Winners from Made in the Shade-IV

The following people won First Place in the following 15 categories: 
 
Steve Soroka-Mead & Cider 
Miffie Seideman-Herb & Specialty/Classic Porter 
Cubby Lash-American Style Ale/American Pale Ale 
Frank Wetherell-Stout/Sweet Stout 
Nat Rowell-Pale Ale/Classic Pale Ale 
John Adkisson-Bock/Helles Bock 
Greg Scharrer-Barley Wine & Old Ale/Barley Wine 
Rick Drake/John Forbes-Vienna, Octoberfest, Marzen/Octoberfest Marzen 
Rick Drake/John Forbes-Porter/Brown Porter 
Rick Drake/John Forbes-Classic Pilsner/German Pilsner 
David Hinkle-Wheat Beer/German Weizen 
Suzanne Scott-Belgian, French Ale, Lambic/Biere de Garde 
Joe Early-Fruit Beer/Apricot Fruit Beer 
 
And Best of Show went to Rick Drake and John Forbes for their German 
Pilsner! We would like to extend our congrats to eveyone who participated in 
this festival! 
******************************************** 
* Jeff Handley***outpost@ homebrewers.com   * 
* Homebrewers Outpost-Flagstaff, Arizona   * 
*      http://www.homebrewers.com          * 
*                                          * 
* Homer: "Thanks for coming to my party.   * 
*  Wow, you brought a whole beer keg!"     * 
* Barney: "Yeah.  Where can I fill it up?" * 
******************************************** 
 

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From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald)
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 15:11:59 -0500
Subject: Airstone Or Not

>From: korz at pubs.ih.lucent.com 
> 
> ...the problem is that it takes a long time to get the wort even close to 
>proper O2 level and I had to turn off the pump every minute or two because 
>the foam was crawling out of the carboy.  1 minute of aeration, 10 minutes 
>rest, 1 minute of aeration... 
 
I had the same problem, then one day I got tired of the airstone floating in 
the wort so I put the airstone on the end of the racking cane.  This cured 
the floating problem but one day I bumped the airstone and it broke!  So 
since I did not have another airstone, I just let the racking cane bubble 
larger bubbles into the wort.  To my surprise and delight the foam was about 
a steady inch or two above the wort and I could leave the pump on 
continuously for four hours. 
 
So my question is:  Does four hours of steady large bubbles and two inch 
foam give good areation verses many tiny bubbles started and stopped.  Are 
we trying too hard and not RDWHAHB? 
 
I have used this twice now and had great even fermentation. 
 
Ron 
 

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