---

   FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
        Shawn Steele, Digest Janitor
        Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!

Contents:
  Octoberfest Extract Recipie ("Michael J. LeLaurin, CS/BRC, 245-7880")
  Polyclar? (Keith Busby)
  "Safe" Silicone for Frane's Friend / Lil' Bottles (KennyEddy at aol.com)
  Cures for infection, anyone! ((Greg Douhan))
  Late harvest hops (emccormi)
  Mash-in Techniques /Cookers /GABF bites! ((John (The Coyote) Wyllie))
  HG dry hopping ((John (The Coyote) Wyllie))
  PU Yeast ((A. J. deLange))
  RE: Sheepish grin (AJN)
  Hop bag o' marbles ("Pat Babcock")
  s/s brew pots ((Ken ))
  RE: Poor extraction/ Forced Sparging/ Hot Side Aeration ((George De Piro))
  Bottles and Malt (John Penn)
  duffy's extraction problem (M257876 at sl1001.mdc.com (bayerospace at mac))
  HSA/Pump (krkoupa at ccmail2.PacBell.COM)
  Re: Bottles and Malt (RUSt1d?)
  Blowoff Tubes and Cleaning Them (Michael Caprara)
  Beta amylase and fermentability -- so far (korz at pubs.ih.lucent.com)
  Duffy's inefficiency ("David R. Burley")
  Stainless Soldering (Scott Abene)
  Extraction Problems (korz at pubs.ih.lucent.com)

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Michael J. LeLaurin, CS/BRC, 245-7880" <lelaurin at shellus.com>
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 96 17:16:04 -0500
Subject: Octoberfest Extract Recipie

 
 
HBD, 
    I would like to brew (running out of time...!) an Octoberfest 
from extract/specialty grains. I need a recipie. Private email fine. 
 
Thanx................ 
 
d:-) 
 
******************************* 
* Michael J. LeLaurin         * 
* Computing  Services         * 
* Shell EP Technology Co.     * 
* Phone (713)245-7880         * 
* FAX   (713)245-7581         * 
* e-mail:lelaurin             * 
* internet:lelaurin at shell.com * 
******************************* 

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From: Keith Busby <kbusby at uoknor.edu>
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 19:44:14 -0500
Subject: Polyclar?

Does anyone have experience with Polyclar? I just made an all-grain  Belgian 
Trippel, which tastes just fine, but has serious chill haze problems. I know 
this is just an aesthetic issue, but on balance I'd probbaly rather have my 
beer clear than cloudy (yes, I know, don't chill it then). Does Polyclar 
actually work? I gather it is added to the secondary a day or so before 
bottling. Since it is insoluble, is it simply added as is? Should it be 
stirred? Won't this stir up the sedimented yeast again? 
 
Thanks for any responses. 
 
Keith Busby 
Keith Busby 
George Lynn Cross Research Professor 
Center for Medieval and Renaissance Studies 
University of Oklahoma 
780 Van Vleet Oval, Room 202 
Norman, OK 73019 
Tel.: (405) 325-5088 
Fax: (405) 325-0103 
 

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From: KennyEddy at aol.com
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 22:10:44 -0400
Subject: "Safe" Silicone for Frane's Friend / Lil' Bottles

Jeff Frane asks about epoxies for healing an old friend's war wounds.  I've 
used a silicone adhesive I found at Builders Square a while back, on the 
Electric Brewery and on thermometer probes.  I've even used it as Jeff needs 
to, to plug a hole I didn't really mean to drill (no, really) in my mash tun 
about 10 batches ago.  I posted the following in HBD1963: 
 
<< 
Thanks to Bruce Taber for his food-grade silicone posting.  I found another 
which might be a bit more widely available.  It's made by Dow-Corning and is 
sold as "DAP 100% Silicone Sealant" in the caulk-gun tube (about $4).  You 
might also find it in a smaller squeeze tube too.  It doesn't have any more 
identification that that, other than a note on the UPC symbol that says 
"Reorder Cat No 8641.  It claims 25% joint mobility and -40F to +400F 
operation. 
 
There is a note on the tube which reads: 
 
     "Safe for food contact: When cured and washed, 
     ingredients which remain or which could migrate to 
     food are listed in FDA Regulation No. 21CFR177 2600" 
 
I'd suggest you contact Dow Corning (ask for an MSDS for this product) and/or 
the FDA (ask for info on the above regulation) concerning this before you 
just plug away with it, but it appears from this note that you should be OK 
especially using it in small amounts. 
>> 
 
***** 
 
Charles Epp asks about little bottles: 
 
> Anybody know of a source (preferably inexpensive)for small, cappable 
> bottles in the 7-8 oz. size? 
 
I've used Perrier bottles successfully.  They're 6 ounces, I believe. 
 
***** 
 
Ken Schwartz 
KennyEddy at aol.com 
http://members.aol.com/kennyeddy 
 

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From: gdouhan at mail.wsu.edu (Greg Douhan)
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 21:20:05 -0700
Subject: Cures for infection, anyone!

        I recently brewed an German styled wheat(11.5 gallons). One of my 
two fermentors became infected, most likely from the air lock blowing off 
one of them. Anyways, the beer is infected and has a very pronounced 
band-aidy typical phenolic character. I refuse to toss out any brew if it 
is at all possible. Does anybody know a way to mask this flavor, deactivate 
the chemical by some safe means, anything? I am willing to be creative and 
am wondering what the collective could come up with. Private e-mail would 
be great and I will post a result if all goes well 
 
Greg Douhan 
 
 

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From: emccormi <emccormi at knox.net>
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 01:02:26 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Late harvest hops

Miguel, 
 I would expect snipping the flowers before they develop would 
encourage the hops to grow a stronger rootstock. Works that way for mums 
and many other perrenials. In Holland, the tulip flowers are mowed off to 
encourage them to produce top size bulbs. 
 Most plants don't respond well to being decapitated before they 
die off naturally for the year. A possible exception might be members of 
the mint family currently attempting to overrun our yard. 
 I know the hop (vines?) grow quite long, but I would say it would 
be better to train them to a fence or a rope at a level where you could 
harvest the hops without lopping the entire plant down. Let the vines 
themselves die off on their own, then remove them. Leaving dead 
vegetation around live plants just encourages disease and insect 
problems. 

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From: ccoyote at sunrem.com (John (The Coyote) Wyllie)
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 02:54:17 -0600
Subject: Mash-in Techniques /Cookers /GABF bites!

Ok, Ok, some I'm way behind.  Far too much to keep up with these daze! 
Just put up tomatoes, and am ready to turn back to hop picking. My cascade 
is calling me!    (afraid they are suffering a bit of spider mite damage, 
but too late in the game for spraying. Mighty Spider Stout anyone?) 
 
 
RE: The running debate:  Which came first the water or the grain....aka 
mash-in techniques.   Here's my 2c worth of experiences. 
 
I have a stone-wheel electric grinder.  I grind directly into my 15 gal pot 
(w/ an easymasher installed).  I once tried adding water into the pot first 
(hott tap water) with the idea that the grain would fall onto the water and 
mix well, w/o clumping.   Would have worked ok, except for the fact that 
the hot water created steam (depleted of 02 of course, right Al?)  which 
caused clumping of the grain IN the grinder.  Basically I could tell by the 
humm of my motor that this was not a happy grinder!  (yeah I know, if I got 
a Maltmill all my worries would be solved, problem is my bank account would 
be emptied too!  Xmas?  hint hint?  -wonder if the Mrs is listening....) 
 
SO- I went back to my former, and current routine.  Grind my grain into my 
pot.  Then with my PurpleHeart (wood) paddle in hand, and sink hose held 
also, mix grain as water pours fairly slowly into the mash.  I run the 
water almost down the paddle as I cut into the mash.  Yeah, there may be 
some clumping, there may be some starch balls, but hey...whats a couple 
points!  Plus by the time I get to full mash volume (step infusions 
generally) I figure most if not all clumps have been renedered "fluidous". 
 
 
Anyone have a homemade version of those brewpub gizmos (I'm sure there is a 
technical term) where they grind the grain upstairs and drop it through a 
shoot where a ring of jets blasts water into the falling grain, so it is 
thoroughly mixed by the time it lands in the mash tun? 
 
 
>Paul sed: 
>I usually add flour to liquid in my 
>Kitchenaid mixer w/o a balling problem.  If mixing by hand (when making 
>biscuits or something) I do it the other way 'round.  In a mechanized 
>mixer like the Kitchenaid, if you put the flour in first, then add 
>liquid & turn on mixer (even on slowest setting), it'll toss flour _all_ 
>over the place. 
> 
>So the answers is:  It depends...   *Now if you need depends, there is a 
>real 
>                                     liquid problem here! 
 
***   Funny thing here:  I guess with a Kitchen aid perhaps you suffer a 
flour shower (do you have one of those ring things, clear plastic spray 
catcher...) and need to add solid to liquid, but with my Cuisinart food 
processor, I add solids first, flour, salt and mix, then slowly pour in 
liquids, eggs, oil, water,  and there we have it Pasta,  or bread dough, or 
pastry, or whatever is the end product of desire.  Though I agree with ya 
on doing it with your hands, I like to start with flour, and mix a puddle 
of liquids in the middle, gradually stirring in more flour to ....duogh! 
 
What does this have to do with brewing!  Nothing!  Should I head for 
rec.crafts.cooking now?  But who's to say Barley makes lousy bread!  Spent 
grain bread recipes abound!  Check em out!  How about using your yeast 
dregs from a fruit beer, or mead, to start a bread culture!    Works great! 
 
Anyone ever try grinding spend dried grains to a powder, then using for bread? 
 
*** 
RE: the thread on Gas Burners and stability: 
        This is one of the major issues that led me to choose the Camp Chef 
Cache Cooker (just a damned happy customer!) over one of them thar fish 
fryers.  Those legs just look too darned twiggy to handle the kind of abuse 
I dish out!  What with 20+ gallons of boiling liquid, and vigourous 
stirring, I wouldnt wanna trust spindly legs!  My double burner holds the 
pots well (10, and 15 gal) and is sturdy enough for rough handling my mash, 
or whirlpooling my wort. 
 
        If you choose to use a tire iron as suggested I'd lend a note of 
caustion RE: gas fumes from any paint which might burn off of the iron. 
THe cook stoves are supposed to be exposed to lots of heat and flame.  A 
tire iron is not.  Even so, my cook stove emmitted some pretty noxious 
fumes for the first couple runs until it had burned off some of the 
paint/powder coat.  No problems now, just the occasional caramel aroma as 
that splilled wort candy-izes come the next brew session! 
 
If you get Williams catalog, they have a nice picture of a single burner. 
I believe these have shorter legs than my model.  Funny thing is, I spent 
less than the $89 they quote for their single burner, for my double burner! 
THey are made locally here (hence the name- Cache cooker, Cache 
county...yeah there's a coincidence) so I s'pose shipping costs are saved! 
I got my two burner for $67 at a crazy daze sale in town.  They generally 
have the single burners for around $50 not on sale.  Go figure! 
 
*** 
A few of the members, and non-members of our brewclub N.U!M.B are planning 
to attend the GABF fest.   Funny thing we noticed- the brochure claims that 
they have "special" rates with several hotels in the area.  The odd thing 
is- if you call and request room prices out of the blue- you get one quote, 
call back and tell them you are with the GABF and get another quote. 
Here's where the "special" part comes in....the GABF rates are about $5-$10 
HIGHER than the 'out of the blue' rates.    Hmmmmmm.  Smells a little fishy 
to me!  One reservation lady during the same call after quoting a price, 
then being told we were with GABF said- "oh, I wish you hadn't told me 
that, not here is your price", a whopping $5 higher!  Right to our "face" 
(over the phone).   Anyone else run into this phenomenon?    This reeks if 
you ask me! 
        Dammit- I'm bringing a backpack whether they f$*&ing like it or not! 
 
Does anyone wanna try to meet up at the members only tasting?  Ya know- we 
could get together "face to face" and....have a beer or something! 
(hahaha) 
        3pm at the "store" might be a place/time to try.  Any takers? 
 
PS: On the brewing scene:  Just tapped a Burnt Porter- made with 
home-smoked apple-wood/mesquite grain.   Also am making a Cask ale- IPA. 
Loads of HOPS! 
Gotta make room in the freezers for THIS years hops!  Anyone want some of 
last years?  Still mighty nummy!   Lots of cascade/williamette.   Also 
started up a sweet RoseHip Mead.  Can't wait!  (but I'll have to...) 
 
- ------------------------------------------------------------ 
///John-    The Cosmic Coyote  -Wyllie\\\ ccoyote at sunrem.com 
- ------------------------------------------------------------ 
 
 

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From: ccoyote at sunrem.com (John (The Coyote) Wyllie)
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 04:12:42 -0600
Subject: HG dry hopping

> 
>From: WattsBrew at aol.com 
>Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 19:34:08 -0400 
>Subject: Dry hopping 
> 
>Good day brewers, 
> I am about to try dry hopping for the first time.  I am using homegrown 
>hops.  The hops have already been dried and are packaged in the freezer.  The 
>question I have is "do the hops need any special attention or should I just 
>chuck them in the secondary?, also is there any risk of contamination from 
>homegrown hops?." 
>Your collective wisdom is greatly appreciated. 
> 
>Brewing in Lancaster, NY - Bill Watt 
 
 
 
*  One thing i have done for my own peace of mind, and to avoid hop bits in 
my finished brew- is to make a hop tea, or infusion.  Just bring some water 
to a boil, turn off the flame and add the hops. Let is sit for a couple of 
minutes, then strain the liquid into your finished beer (or secondar-ying). 
You get a nice fresh face-ful of hop aroma without /worry/. 
 
Homegrown hops properly dried and stored should not pose any greater threat 
to your brew than commercial hops.  I would think there is some benefit 
from having frozen the hops first rather than using freshly dried HG hops. 
Granted freezing won't sterilize, OR sanitize, but it might in some way 
reduce the numbers of microbes, at least MACRO-bugs will be terminated! 
(mites? aphids?). 
 
 
You have a couple things working for you RE: contaminants in a secondary: 
1) alcohol content has increased in the brew, inhibiting contaminating microbes
2) pH has decreased, an acidic environ is not very hospitable to foreigners 
3) O2 has been depleted. Less contaminants are able to tolerate anaerobic 
conditions. 
 
A couple things I have experienced w/ dry hopping a secondary. 
 
a. Fermentation will seem to "re-acticate".  This is not due to 
fermentables being carried in with the hops.  But more likely due to 
nucleation sites for dissolved CO2 to become....undissolved. 
 
b. Cloudiness may increase.  I've found a bit more haze in dry hopped 
beers, so you might consider using fining agents after the hops have 
floated around a while.  You could go to a tertiary for a couple days 
before bottling/kegging. 
 
I have dry hopped in kegs fairly often.  It works great!  The wide mouth of 
the keg is much more conducive to stuffing a sack of hop in than the narrow 
neck of a carboy.  Just a couple marble in a cheese cloth "sack" of hops 
tied to the down tube (liquid) in the carboy, and off I go.  Truly 
delightful! 
Thing is I've found a quick infusion of hops into priming sugar solution 
added to the keg gives almost as much kick, w/o any concern or problem with 
the "sack" finding its way to the inlet of the outlet, and causing a 
blocklet!  Arghhhh! 
 
                Just my 2c. You can toss them in the well if you wish! 
 
- ------------------------------------------------------------ 
///John-    The Cosmic Coyote  -Wyllie\\\ ccoyote at sunrem.com 
- ------------------------------------------------------------ 
 
 

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From: ajdel at interramp.com (A. J. deLange)
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 11:10:25 -0500
Subject: PU Yeast

Don Trotter asked whether PU yeast has a Bavarian origin. In 1842 a 
Bavarian monk smuggled lager yeast Bohemia and late in that same year the 
Burgerliches Brauhaus (funding for which had been granted based on the 
claim that Bohemian brewing was being throttled by competition from 
Bavarian lagers) produced its first beer. Draw your own conclusion. 
 
Rumor currently has it that PU is brewed using 5 strains of yeast (and 
Michael Jackson mentions this). I don't know the exact process but have 
seen posted at least once that five separate worts are pitched and blended 
after fermentation is complete. If true one of those five is a big diacetyl 
producer! 
 
A.J. deLange   Numquam in dubio, saepe in errore! 
ajdel at interramp.com 
 
 

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From: AJN <neitzkea at frc.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 07:15:35 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: RE: Sheepish grin

RANDY ERICKSON <RANDYE at mid.org> Wrote: 
 
>BTW, did anyone else have to go out and try to find propane at 6:00 a.m. 
>on Monday morning (an U.S. holiday)?  I must get a gauge for that tank! 
 
>Randy in Modesto (California) 
 
That's a easy one:  Tip toe over to your neighbor with a wrench and the 
empty tank and switch tanks from his/her BBQ!  Then when your neighbor 
gets up, stroll over and say "howdy neighbor, how about I fill up your 
tank for you, on me!"  Fill both tanks, and give them back theirs. 
 
Make sure your good neighbors, so they don't shoot first ask questions 
last :) 
 
_________________________________________________________________________ 
Arnold J. Neitzke                         Internet Mail: neitzkea at frc.com 
Home : Brighton, Mi. 
Work : Auburn Hills, Mi. 

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From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock at ford.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 08:03:19 -0400
Subject: Hop bag o' marbles

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager... 
 
In HBD , Al K comments on the difficulty of shtuffing the sinkered hop bag in 
and out of the neck... 
 
I'm a world class bottle neck stuffer from way back. The key is in how you 
load and tie the bag. 
 
First, use the SMALL marbles. Those big ol' aggies won't fit in most bottles. 
Optionally, there are these deformed marbles they sell as glass beads for 
aquarium decorators. These are about the size of raisins or Junior Mints (tm) 
and should fit well. Boil the bag and the marbles for a while in a covered 
pot. Put a gentile handfull of marbles in the bag, add your hops (use your 
head, though - if you *stuff* the bag, you'll never get it in the neck. Two 
bags would be a better option...). Not, the coup de grace: the knot! grab the 
bag at opposite points of the opening, and draw them away. Now loop the two 
ends to form the first part of a square knot. Snug it just to the point it 
closes the opening of the bag. Now, tie the other loop. Grip the bag AND the 
knot-ends, and pull the knot as small as possible. If you've overstuffed your 
bag, you know have a too-plump sausage looking thing and will have to try 
again. 
 
Now, use your hands to "tubularize" the bag as you pass it through the neck 
of the bottle. When it's time to remove, I usually just siphon the beer out 
to its final resting place, then snag the bag(s) with a coathanger hook. I 
pull the bag up and out, or simply tear it open in the fermenter. The hop 
leaves will come free and flow out with the rest of the splooge, and the you 
can fish the bag out with that coathanger. Pour the splooge into a collander 
to avoid the painful loss of your marbles. (It is apparent of late that too 
many homebrewers have lost their marbles anyway...) 
 
Hope this helps! 
 
See ya! 
Pat Babcock in scenic Canton, MI 
pbabcock at oeonline.com 
http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/brew.html 

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From: kbjohns at escape.com (Ken )
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 09:02:10 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: s/s brew pots

>K Sprague wrote 
 
>The acutual price for a 40 QT. vollrath s/s stock pot (minus the lid which 
is >$20-30) is something like $89.00 net cost (I have a current price list 
in my >office). If you allow the dealer 10% on cost (which is a respectable 
profit) >plus shipping (which BTW, they usually get shipping for free)  it 
should cost >you about $100. 
 
Like to be in your business where a dealer/retailer can survive on 10% 
profit. Guess they must make it up on volume. Which Vollrath 40 qt are we 
talking about. they offer 3 models 
Ken 
Precision Brewing Systems URL http://www.wp.com/HOSI/pbscat.html 
East Coast Brewing supply URL 
http://virtumall.com/EastCoastBrewing/ECBMain.html
 

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From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com (George De Piro)
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 08:11:08 -0700
Subject: RE: Poor extraction/ Forced Sparging/ Hot Side Aeration

     Hi all! 
 
     Duffy writes about his poor extraction.  18 pts/lb./gal. is 
     distressingly low.  I used to have similar woes, though not quite as 
     severe, when using "store crushed" malt.  My shop, like Duffy's, has a 
     nice roller mill, but the gap was always set too course.  The day I 
     bought my own mill and learned to use it was the day that I started 
     getting 80% extract efficiencies (compared to my previous 70-75%). 
 
     There may be some other problems (for example, sparging for 35 min. is 
     a tad too quick, stretch it to at least 45 min.), but in my experience 
     poor milling is the major culprit. 
     --------------------------- 
     A few days back (I was on vacation, just catching up) John asked about 
     "forced sparging," using pressure to push the liquid through the grain 
     bed.  Guinness utilizes mash filters, which is basically what John 
     describes.  The grain is reduced to flour in a hammer mill and then 
     lautered by forcing liquid through the floury mash.  They can achieve 
     remarkably high extract efficiencies this way, but the technology is a 
     bit much for us to duplicate in the kitchen (although somebody 
     somewhere is probably proving me wrong!). 
 
     I don't know how well this would work with "normally crushed" grains 
     in your typical homebrewery lauter tun, or if you'd even want to try, 
     because I don't see a readily apparent advantage to it. 
 
     See "Stout" by Michael Lewis for more on mash filters at Guinness 
     breweries. 
     ---------------------------- 
     In issue 2166 bayerospace at mac (sorry, I forgot your name) wrote that 
     many micros have hot side aeration (HSA) and don't care.  Well, I have 
     seen micros with HSA, but at least one does care! 
 
     Deschutes brewery (Bend, OR) has a flaw in their whirlpool tank that 
     aerates the hot wort a bit (was told this on a tour; Bill (a brewer 
     there) was my guide).  They believe this to be a more serious threat 
     to the shelf-life of their product than the lack of pasteurization.  I 
     didn't ask why they don't just fix it! 
 
     By the way, I didn't detect any oxidation in any of the Deschutes 
     beers I had (and I did have a few...they're quite good). 
 
     Have fun! 
 
     George De Piro  (Nyack, NY) 

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From: John Penn <john_penn at jhuapl.edu>
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 09:19:24 +0000
Subject: Bottles and Malt

7-8 oz bottles:  I bought a six pack of Heineken 7oz bottles, 
they are the only ones I've seen that are not twist off 7oz. 
It's an expensive way to go but I wanted a few smaller bottles, 
mostly for my wife. If anyone knows of a better/cheaper source 
please post on the HBD.  I also found some 16oz grolsch style 
capping bottles--including beer--on sale for 50 cents so I 
bought 10. 
MaltMeister Question:  1)  The local beer store in MD is now 
carrying peat smoked malt which I'd like to try in a scottish ale 
recipe.  They mentioned using it for Rauchbier.  Having never 
tried peat smoked malt, would this be an acceptable substitute? 
What would the taste be like? 
2)  I want to try Papazian's India Pale Ale which calls for toasting 
malt at 350F for 10 minutes.  Would it be best to use a British Malt and 
which one?  Is there an equivalent toasted malt I could buy as a 
substitute such as Biscout or Victory? TIA. 
   John Penn 

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From: M257876 at sl1001.mdc.com (bayerospace at mac)
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 08:44 -0600
Subject: duffy's extraction problem

collective homebrew conscience: 
 
duffy toler wrote: 
 
>I used a 122 F protein rest for 30 minutes followed by a 152 F conversion 
>rest for 50 minutes.  The iodine test showed no starch left.  I recirculated 
>for 15 minutes and then sparged 5 gallons of 170 F/pH 5.2 water 
>through(which took about 35 minutes) and collected about 6.5 gallons of 
>sweet liquor.  This was boiled down to about 5.25 gallons over 90 minutes. 
> I ran it through my counterflow chiller and took a gravity reading.  A 
>lousy 1.035, or about 18 pts./lbs/gal.   The hydrometer has been calibrated. 
 
 
here are some things you can do to increase your extraction.  you may be 
doing some of these already: 
 
1)  make sure you have a decent crush. 
2)  check the pH of the mash at mash in; check it again at saccharification. 
    adjust if necessary. 
2b) make sure your pH measuring technique is accurate.  some of the pH papers 
    aren't too accurate. 
3)  stir the mash a few times during protein rest/saccharification 
4)  make sure your mash is not too thick.  1 quart water per pound of grist 
   is about the minimum you should use.  use 1.33 or 1.5 quarts per pound of 
   grist, especially if you're using direct heat to boost from protein rest 
   to sacch. rest. 
5)  make sure your thermometer is accurate. 
6)  extend the sacch. rest to 1.5 or 2 hours, regardless of the iodine test 
7)  sparging should take a minimum of 1 hour, not including recirculation. 
    keep the sparge water level above the grain bed at all times during the 
    sparge. 
8)  knife the grain bed a couple of times during the sparge to prevent 
   excessive channelling. 
 
 
if you implement each one of these you could see a decent gain. 
 
you may have some bad (undermodified) malt, but that's very rare these days. 
 
make sure the pale malt you're using for the base of the recipe is enzymatic, 
and not carapils or some other specialty type that has little or no enzymes. 
this seems kind of obvious to a lot of us, but i remember trying to mash 
crystal malt in my "extract to partial mash" transition period. 
 
hope this helps. 
 
brew hard, 
 
 
mark bayer 

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From: krkoupa at ccmail2.PacBell.COM
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 96 13:48:10 PST
Subject: HSA/Pump

My inquisitive neighbor's questions are getting tougher and 
tougher to answer.  I use a Little Giant mag-drive pump to 
move the wort between the mash tun and the boil kettle.  He 
asked me if I had to worry about Hot Side Aeration through 
the pump.  Duh, I'm stumped.  Let's see, air (aeriation) 
shouldn't be introduced at the pump, so it's cavitation at 
best.  Now my question for HBD: 
 
Is Hot Side Cavitation the same problem as Hot Side 
Aeration? 
 
Not that I'm going to do anything different, I just want to 
know what goes on. 
Thanks!    Ken Koupal    krkoupa at ccmail2.pacbell.com 
 

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From: RUSt1d? <rust1d at li.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 09:51:03 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Bottles and Malt

John Penn writes 
>2)  I want to try Papazian's India Pale Ale which calls for toasting 
>malt at 350F for 10 minutes.  Would it be best to use a British Malt and 
>which one?  Is there an equivalent toasted malt I could buy as a 
>substitute such as Biscout or Victory? TIA. 
 
You could substitute something for the home toasted malt, but I wouldn't. 
I toasted some malt last weekend for a porter and could not get over how 
great the stuff smelled while baking. If you substitute you will be 
missing out on a treat. 
 
John Varady 
Boneyard Brewing Co. 
"Ale today, Gone tomorrow" 
 

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From: Michael Caprara <mcaprara at awwarf.com>
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 08:35:01 -0600
Subject: Blowoff Tubes and Cleaning Them

Jeff writes:  >gunge was deposited on the inside of my plastic tubing. 
It's about quarter  >inch clear tube.  Any ideas how to clean this stuff 
out? 
 
AL writes:  >Buy  yourself some 1 1/4" OD tubing for blowoff and 5/16" 
ID FOOD-GRADE tubing  for siphoning and don't use one for the other. 
The 1.25" tubing will fit  right into the neck of a carboy without a stopper. 
 
Here is my $0.02 on blowoff tubes.  The 1.25" OD tube is great for 
blowoff, but the tube wears out and won't hold a good seal after a few 
months of heavy use.  Plus the stuff is expensive!  Sometimes the 
fermentation spooge comes out of the "seal"  I mainly use a 5/16" tube 
and rubber stopper for blow off.  I never get cloggage problems because 
I use only leaf hops and the hops and trub are strained through a copper 
chore boy in the bottom of the brew kettle. 
 
To clean tubes.  For the 1.25" OD tube, first I soak in B Brite, then I have 
a piece of nylon cord with an old wash cloth tied to the end.  I pull the 
cord and cloth through the tube and walla!  it is clean.  For the 5/16" tube, 
I use a piece of cord (this is Army 550 cord for parachutes) with a 
bunch of knots tied in it at one end (they are space about 3 or 4 inches 
apart).  I work the cord through the tube and pull the knots through (I 
soak in B Brite first)  Wallah!!  It is clean. 
 
You won't get the 5/16" tube clean enough to use for siphoning, but it will 
work again and again for a blow off.  Use your siphon tube for siphoning 
only. 
 
Brewfully Deadicated 
MC :{P} I mix the blow off spooge with a can of                                
Bud and serve it to all the klingons I know!                                   
mcaprara at awwarf.com 
http:/www.dimensional.com/~godbey/louthan.html 
 

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From: korz at pubs.ih.lucent.com
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 96 10:04:06 CDT
Subject: Beta amylase and fermentability -- so far

If you will recall, a number of us had a long and drawn-out disagreement 
regarding fermentability, mash temperatures & mash times.  We took the 
discussion offline (thank goodness) and are still hashing it out.  Including 
today's discussions, so far we have generated 12776 lines of email -- that's 
592837 bytes.  To make the problem more manageable, the single large problem 
has been cut up into three phase: 
 
1. basic concepts, 
2. collecting more experimental data, and 
3. enzyme kinetics based upon the experimental data. 
 
Several weeks ago, we started with a bullet list of basic concepts.  This 
was edited by a number of us till we got to something we could all agree 
upon.  I am here to present to you the results of phase 1: 
 
  We have hashed the issue of fermentability, beta-amylase lifetime and 
  mash times/temperatures off-line and have resolved our differences.  The 
  problems here were caused partially by misunderstanding each other's posts 
  and partially by some misinformation in various homebrewing texts.  The 
  points we all agree on are: 
 
  * When Dave initially suggested that longer mash times would reduce FG, 
    it was specifically meant regarding very short mash times (on the order 
    of 15 minutes in the saccharification range). 
 
  * None of us advocate such short mash times.  They will indeed lead to 
    high FG's, poor extraction and inconsistent results.  A 1 hour mash is 
    just about the minimum reasonable time and various other factors such 
    as poor grind, lower (below 155F or so) saccharification temperature, 
    very high or low pH and insufficient calcium will require even longer 
    mashes. 
 
  * If a sufficiently long time (assuming proper grind, pH and calcium) is 
    used for a single-step infusion mash, the fermentability (and therefore 
    apparent attenuation and FG) is strictly a function of mash temperature 
    (a low FG will be the result of 2 hours at 150F and a high FG will be 
    the result of 1.5 hours at 158F). 
 
  * If a brewer is mashing strictly at 158F for more than an hour and 
    experiencing a high FG (where the FG points are more than 40% of the 
    OG points) and the high FG is not a result of alcohol tolerance, poor 
    wort aeration or yeast health, then the solution to a lower FG is to 
    lower the mash temperature. 
 
Steve Alexander 
Ed Basgall 
Dave Burley 
Charley Burns 
Al Korzonas 
 
P.S. Anyone wishing to join our discussion, please contact Al.  He will 
get you up-to-date and will notify everyone to add you to the discussion 
group.   The next phase is underway.  We are setting up the guidelines 
for the experiment.  More experimenters would certainly be welcome. 

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From: "David R. Burley" <103164.3202 at CompuServe.COM>
Date: 04 Sep 96 11:16:02 EDT
Subject: Duffy's inefficiency

Brewsters: 
 
Duffy Toler describes a nearly perfect brewing session and still came up with a
lousy 0.18pts/lb/gal instead 
of in the thirties where he belongs. Given his grain bill of 10#/5gals I would 
have expected a number in the 
 high 50's or low sixties not 1.035 for the OG.  I suppose it is possible the 
malt was of poor quality, but 
 unlikely and probably not THAT bad. 
 
Since you did so much correctly, is it possible that you had significant 
channeling during sparging?  Try changing your configuration for offtake from 
the sparger and extending your sparge time to 1 hour.  I gather 
you are using a false bottom. If you have a serious gap around the edges, put  
either nylon insect screening 
( boiled for 15 min in detergent containing water to remove processing oils and
tastes) about 4" wide and a length slightly greater than the circumference of 
the sparger. Place it around the edge ( 2" up the side of the sparger wall and 
the remainder lying on the false bottom) or use a cloth to force the sparge 
through the grain bed and not down the sides.  Be sure to put a layer of 170F- 
180F sparge liquor ( water adjusted to pH = 5.2 with lactic acid) about 1" 
above
the top of the false bottom to prevent serious clogging of the drain holes 
before you move the grain to the sparger. Spread the mash around evenly with it
piled up around the edges 
 for the first four or so inches to prevent channels forming along the edges. 
Add the rest of the mash slowly in the middle and get a smooth bed.  Let it 
setle for a minute or so.  Start the sparge slowly until the bed is 
 firmed. Recycle (heated back to 170F) wort until you get it to run clear. 
Depending on your mash thickness, you may have to add some 170-180F sparge 
water
to give you enough to recycle.  Make sure the sparged 
 wort exit temperature is in the upper one hundred sixties throughout the 
sparge. Check your SG of the 
 sparge and look at the color to judge when a sparge is finished. When you use 
crystal malt that is easy to spot,since it will go colorless, although some 
sugars and other solubles will still be coming through. 
  SG ( approx 1.010) or Clinitest ( < 2%) will tell you when to stop sparging. 
Try raking the upper part ( to 
 within 6" of the bottom) of the grain bed periodically if this problem 
persists. The grain bed should be at 
 least 6" and preferably more than a foot deep to get good clarification and 
efficient sparging.  Maybe increasing your batch size will help. 
 
Although it doesn't sound like it is a problem, check the milling of the malt. 
Each grain should break into several pieces and very little flour. Your short  
sparge time indicates the milling could be a problem if channellig isn't. 
 
Beef up your problem brew with  some malt extract.  Even if you have pitched 
already, take out say a gallon 
 of brew, heat it up to boiling and add the malt extract, boil if the 
manufacturer suggests it,  cool and put it 
 back into the brew. 
 
Let us know how it works out. 
- ---------------------------------------------------------- 
 
Keep on brewin' 
 
Dave Burley 
 
 
 

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From: Scott Abene <sabene at fcg.net>
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 11:01:21 -0600
Subject: Stainless Soldering

Has anyone been brave enough to do their own stainless soldering when 
converting 1/2 barrels? 
 
Private email welcome. 
 
C'Ya! 
 
- -Scott <sabene at fcg.net, skotrat at wwa.com, Copyright1996 at poohgee.com> 
 
***ALL OPINIONS EXPRESSED ARE MINE SO BUGGER OFF!!!*** 
 
 

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From: korz at pubs.ih.lucent.com
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 96 12:32:23 CDT
Subject: Extraction Problems

Duffy writes: 
>I used a 122 F protein rest for 30 minutes followed by a 152 F conversion 
>rest for 50 minutes.  The iodine test showed no starch left.  I recirculated 
>for 15 minutes and then sparged 5 gallons of 170 F/pH 5.2 water 
>through(which took about 35 minutes) and collected about 6.5 gallons of 
>sweet liquor.  This was boiled down to about 5.25 gallons over 90 minutes. 
> I ran it through my counterflow chiller and took a gravity reading.  A 
>lousy 1.035, or about 18 pts./lbs/gal. 
 
First, I suggest doubling your sparge time.  Try to make it last an hour. 
Secondly, if you have room in your mash/laeuter tun, you could try adding 
one more boiling water infusion to bring the mash to mashout temperatures 
(as close to 176F as you can get without going over too much) before starting 
to take runnings.  These two changes will probably give you at least 25 
points.  If you don't get that, perhaps the crush was too coarse. 
 
Incidentally, the 6-row will give you slightly fewer and 6-row American 
Crystal will give you considerably fewer pts/lb/gal than 2-row base malts. 
It's the husk-to-starch ratio.  Something to consider. 
 
Al. 
 
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL 
korzonas at lucent.com 

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