---

   FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
        Shawn Steele, Digest Janitor
        Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!

Contents:
  Brewing delay (lheavner at tcmail.frco.com)
  Re: PU Yeast (Don Trotter)
  electrical 101 ("Robert L. Schroeder")
  Trouble and tubing ((Bill Giffin))
  Brew in Phoenix (Matt Koch)
  Extraction rate ((Bill Giffin))
  Homebrew Comp. in New Jersey (DJBrew at aol.com)
  Re: Octoberfest Extract Recipie  (Spencer W Thomas)
  Re:  New All-Grain Brewer Extraction  (Mike Demers)
  Re: HSA/Pump ("Keith Royster")
  Cleaning Kegs (David Root)
  Secondary concerns (smurman at best.com)
  Sweetening without sugar ((Greg Krehbiel))
  knifing and channelling/small diameter blowoff hoses/ideal crush (korz at pubs.ih.lucent.com)
  articles (Sysop at brewlink.com)
  Dry hopping dilema ((Billy Cole))
  small cap-able bottles ("Ed J. Basgall")
  Propane/CO2 bottles (John Wilkinson)
  Re: Seattle Competition Announcement ((Northwest Brewers Supply Co.))
  Re: Hops (Miguel de Salas)
  siphoning ((Christian O Miller))
  Lp Tanks ("David Root")
  duffy's extraction problem (Ian Smith)
  Non-religious Dry hopping...  ("Pat Babcock")
  Cyanide Beer (Dave Greenlee)
  Extract og/lb/gal (Dave Greenlee)
  All grain dopplebock lager temperature ("Michel J. Brown")
  killing yeast and Ofest maltiness (Chuck Mryglot)
  Orval Yeast Culture (MaltyDog at aol.com)
  Kegging (Tim.Watkins at analog.com)

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: lheavner at tcmail.frco.com
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 12:54:39 -0500
Subject: Brewing delay

     A friend and newbie was planning to brew tonite, but must now wait 
     till this weekend.  He already has a starter going and timed to be 
     ready to pitch tonite.  What is the best thing he can do?  I think it 
     was a Wyeast 1056 and apparently very fresh as it fully expanded in 
     less than 24 hrs.  I suggested that he refrigerate it, maybe in an 
     insulated box to slow the rate of cooling?  Anybody want to offer any 
     advice? 
 
     TIA 
 
     Lou 
     <lheavner at frmail.frco.com> 

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From: Don Trotter <dtrotter at imtn.tpd.dsccc.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 13:44:10 -0500
Subject: Re: PU Yeast

 
Thanks A.J. deLange for further insight into the origins of PU.  I'm 
still wondering which commercially available yeast available in the 
U.S. of A. would be best for recreating PU.  At first guess, 2124, 
2007, 2278, or 2206.  What'cha think? 
 
don 

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From: "Robert L. Schroeder" <sparky40 at loop.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 11:48:32 -0700
Subject: electrical 101

`       My apologies to the group. I got my variables mixed up. Constant 
resistance, constant power, what's the difference. My thanks to Dick Dunn 
and others for pointing out the error of my ways. Hey, even Einstien made 
mistakes. 
        Peace; Bob 
 

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From: bill-giffin at juno.com (Bill Giffin)
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 15:00:51 cst
Subject: Trouble and tubing

Good afternoon, 
 
>>Al K said: 
 Speculating on what Foster or Noonan thinks will only get you in trouble 
<< 
I didn't think I was speculating on what Foster nor Noonan said.  I was 
relaying what they had published.  I would far rather rely on what Foster 
and Noonan have published then your opinion of Epsom salts or anything 
for  that matter. 
 
>>Again from the beer God, Al K: 
I don't believe that chemistry works by "exceptions to 
the rule." 
>> 
 
The rule maybe the rule but the amount of magnesium in Burton and Vienna 
water is above what is considered a desirable amount.  Perhaps there is 
some other chemical in the above waters that mitigate the effects of 
magnesium. 
 
>>The benevolent God speaks again, Al K: 
 The answer to your question is: throw the tubing out and buy more.  You 
can't clean it well enough to siphon beer with it anymore. 
<< 
Wrong you can clean tubing with a tubing brush.  No PROBLEM! 
 
>>I bow as I acknowledge the presence of the Great Beer God, Al K: 
 Buy yourself some 1 1/4" OD tubing for blowoff and 5/16" ID FOOD-GRADE 
tubing for siphoning and don't use one for the other 
>> 
 
Why bother to use a blowoff tube in the first place.  Use a bigger carboy 
or a crock or a bigger pail.  Al I would hope that we are all smart 
enough to use food grade, but why 5/16" I think that is a bit small.  Why 
not 3/8" or 1/2"?  Far better in my most humble and unknowing opinion. 
 
Folks remember when you ask for advice on this digest you had better be 
prepared for the advice you get being wrong at least half the time.  Some 
of the information is exceptional the rest is crap. 
 
Bill 
 
 
 

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From: Matt Koch <Matt_K at STSSystems.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 15:22:59 -0400
Subject: Brew in Phoenix

I will be in Phoenix and Flaggstaff next week.  If someone could 
recommend some worthy brewpubs I'd be much obliged. 
 
Thanks in advance 
 
Matt 
in Montreal 

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From: bill-giffin at juno.com (Bill Giffin)
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 15:23:02 cst
Subject: Extraction rate

Good afternoon, 
 
>>Again the God speaks, Al K: 
 
First, I suggest doubling your sparge time.  Try to make it last an hour. 
 
Secondly, if you have room in your mash/laeuter tun, you could try adding 
 
one more boiling water infusion to bring the mash to mashout temperatures 
 
(as close to 176F as you can get without going over too much) before 
starting 
to take runnings.  These two changes will probably give you at least 25 
points.  If you don't get that, perhaps the crush was too coarse. 
<< 
Mostly hogwash!   You will also have a poorer beer. Go to the problem, 
the crush.  At least 50% of your crushed grain should pass through a 
normal window screen. 
 
Bill 
 
 

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From: DJBrew at aol.com
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 15:35:25 -0400
Subject: Homebrew Comp. in New Jersey

The first annual Garden State Halloween Homebrew Challenge, an AHA sanctioned 
competition is scheduled for Nov 2.There are some really cool prizes like 
brewing a batch of beer at a brewpub and maybe a micro. For more information 
or an entry packet contact me. We are also looking for judges and stewards. 
 
Dan Soboti 
DJBrew at Aol.Com 
(201) 376-0973 

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From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu>
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 15:39:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Octoberfest Extract Recipie 

Really, you're out of time.  A proper Oktoberfest takes several months 
lagering. 
 
But if you're attempting an "ale clone", then something like this 
should work: 
 
for 5 gallons 
 
6lbs light DME 
0.5lb CaraMunich crystal (or 60L crystal if you can't find CaraMunich) 
0.5lb CaraVienne crystal (or 20L crystal if you can't find CaraVienne) 
2 oz Roasted barley (optional) 
Steep crushed crystal malt in 1 gallon of hot (160F) water for at 
least 30 minutes, and strain into boiling kettle. 
 
For a full-volume boil, use the following hopping schedule: 
 
4 HBUs of Noble hops (Hallertau, Tettnang) for 60 min. 
4 HBUs of Noble hops for 30 min. 
4 HBUs of Noble hops for 15 min. 
 
For a 1/2-volume boil, double the first two hop additions. 
 
Use a neutral ale yeast (e.g. Wyeast 1056), make a starter and ferment 
cool (65-68F) to minimize esters. 
 
After bottling and conditioning, keep it in the fridge near 32F for as 
long as you can before drinking. 
 
=Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI        (spencer at umich.edu) 

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From: Mike Demers <mdemers at ctron.com>
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 15:32:46 -0400
Subject: Re:  New All-Grain Brewer Extraction 

Duffy Toler complains of poor mash efficiency: 
 
I had the same problem when I began all-graining. 
Here's what I've done to boost my efficiency numbers: 
 
I would encourage you to do a mashout step where after 
the saccharification rest you add heat to the mash 
and bring it up to about 170 degrees F.  Then sparge as 
normal with 170ish water.  This seems to help loosen up 
the sugars in the mash. 
 
I also have gone to two-hour saccharification rests and 
this also seems to help.  I know it's a pain to wait that 
long though.  Sometimes if I want to just blast out a batch 
in 4 hours or so I'll just throw in a couple extra pounds of 
grain and only mash for about 45 minutes or so.  In my 
experience, this is the easiest way to boost the 
your original gravities.  Just add more grain. 
 
Another way is to do a loooooong  ssssslooooooowww  sparge. 
Again, this takes lots of time but it definitely will increase 
the amount of sugar that you can rinse out of the grain. 
 
Most of the time though, I have an entire day devoted to 
brewing so I'll take the extra time to do a long mash, and 
a mashout, and a slow sparge.  These steps certainly will 
increase efficiencies.  However, I have also done batches 
where I've done a 45 min mash, no mashout, and a relatively 
quick sparge of about 20 minutes but I added in a couple 
extra pounds of pale malt at the beginning and wound up 
right on target..  It all depends on what's important to 
you. 
 
Hope this helps, 
 
Mike D. 

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From: "Keith Royster" <keith.royster at ponyexpress.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 16:09:20 -0500
Subject: Re: HSA/Pump

Ken Koupal asks: 
 
> Is Hot Side Cavitation the same problem as Hot Side Aeration? 
 
No, they are not the same problem.  Cavitation does not introduce 
oxygen to the wort, as HSA does.  Cavitation simply means that the 
pressure on the suction side of the pump got so low that it went 
below the liquids vapor pressure and caused it to vaporize (low temp 
boiling, in effect) so all you are dealing with is water vapor in 
the bubbles, not oxygen.  Cavitation is a problem in that it can 
damage your pumps, but it will not cause HSA. 
 
However, you still need to be carefull with aeration when pumping hot 
wort. The velocity of the liquid in the tubing causes a drop in 
pressure (please, don't let this restart the Bernoulli VS Venturi 
thread) which *can* draw in air if your tube fittings are not tight. 
I've seen it happen in my RIMS. 
 
Keith Royster - Mooresville, North Carolina 
"An Engineer is someone who measures it with a micrometer, 
marks it with a piece of chalk, and cuts it with an ax!" 
 
mailto:Keith.Royster at ponyexpress.com 
http://dezines.com/ at your.service - at your.service 
http://dezines.com/ at your.service/cbm -Carolina BrewMasters club page 
http://dezines.com/ at your.service/RIMS -My RIMS (rated COOL! by the Brewery) 

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From: David Root <droot at concentric.net>
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 16:32:04 -0400
Subject: Cleaning Kegs

Is it OK to clean my converted brewing kegs with a steel wool pad? 
 
FWIW = For what its worth 
TIA = Thanks in advance 
HSA = Hot side Aireation 
IMHO = ???? 
YMMV = ???? 
BTW = ??? 
Please fill in the blanks 
I have been reading the digest for 6 mos and havn't figured all of 
them out yet  Thanks     Private Email is fine 
 
David Root Lockport NY     droot at concentric.net 
 

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From: smurman at best.com
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 13:25:33 -0700
Subject: Secondary concerns

 
Counter-point to Al's point(TM) about not using a secondary.  When I 
started brewing I chose a primary-secondary set-up because it gave me 
the most flexibility.  Whether I want to experiment with dry hopping, 
add other exotic ingredients, or age a lager, I use the same method in 
each case.  I use a plastic bucket with spigot, and I don't feel 
contamination is much of a concern at all, certainly no more than the 
concern when racking to the primary.  A carboy and tube is all that's 
required, and if your sanitation technique is good enough for the 
primary, there shouldn't be any problems racking to the secondary. 
This also frees the bucket and spigot at bottling time, if you bottle, 
which is very convenient.  The main problem I have is removing the 
bitter head from the kreusen, which would normally get blown off in a 
carboy primary.  I usually replace the fermentation lock with a narrow 
tube at peak activity, which removes a little bitter head, but not a 
lot.  After reading Al's post(TM) about using a 1-1/2" tube for 
blow-off, I may consider trying to add such a thing to my platic lid. 
I'm not sure if there would be much advantage to this though, due to 
the large head space in the bucket.  I don't really want to remove the 
lid completely and skim.  Anyone else combat this problem? 
 
SM 
 

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From: Krehbiel at ix.netcom.com (Greg Krehbiel)
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 13:54:22 -0700
Subject: Sweetening without sugar

I found a reference to an herb called stevia on another mailing list. It is 
supposedly non-fermentable and *very* sweet. Here's a couple references: 
 
http://www.doc-watson.com/new.html 
http://www.stcloud.msus.edu/~putkoe01/stevia.html 
 
Has anyone tried to use this stuff? 
 
Greg 
 
 

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From: korz at pubs.ih.lucent.com
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 96 16:01:42 CDT
Subject: knifing and channelling/small diameter blowoff hoses/ideal crush

Mark writes: 
8)  knife the grain bed a couple of times during the sparge to prevent 
   excessive channelling. 
 
I believe that the HBD came to an concensus that knifing the grain bed a 
few times during the *laeuter* increased channelling.  Channelling is 
where the sparge water establishes a sort of "river" in the grain bed and 
continues to flow down that path of least resistance forgoing the 
extraction of sugars from surrounding grain.  Poking a knife or skewer 
into the grain bed would only *create* a path, not prevent its creation. 
 
If channelling is suspected then stirring the top 1/2 or 2/3 of the bed 
would help.  Also, I would also suggest diverting the runnings and 
recirculating after the stirring because cloudy wort is bound to start 
running during the stirring of the bed. 
 
I've just thought of a test to see if you are experiencing channelling. 
Half way through the laeuter, divert the runnings to a quart jar.  After 
you've got it half full, divert to a second quart jar and immediately 
stir the top half of the mash.  Measure the SG of the runnings.  If the 
OG in jar 2 is significantly higher than that in jar 1, you have channelling 
problems.  I'm going to try this on my next batch. 
 
*** 
Michael writes: 
>fermentation spooge comes out of the "seal"  I mainly use a 5/16" tube 
>and rubber stopper for blow off.  I never get cloggage problems because 
>I use only leaf hops and the hops and trub are strained through a copper 
>chore boy in the bottom of the brew kettle. 
 
Suit yourself, but after two explosions and one near explosion from clogged 
blowoff tubes (one 5/16" ID and the second 1/2" ID) I have switched to 
1.25" OD.  Expensive? At my store they are $4.00 for 3 feet.  One explosion 
(assuming the carboy doesn't burst and not including cost of labour) will 
pay for 12 feet of hose. 
 
*** 
Dave writes (regarding proper malt crushing): 
>Each grain should break into several pieces and very little flour. 
 
Ideally, we would like a split husk and the insides to be ALL flour! 
The quality of the crush should be measured by the integrity of the 
husk pieces (3 to 5 per kernel, perhaps, not much more) and how well 
the endosperm (insides) are broken up, *not* how little flour. 
References: DeClerck, Fix (in the Zymurgy issue that has the malt mill 
on the cover). 
 
Al. 
 
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL 
korzonas at lucent.com 

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From: Sysop at brewlink.com
Date: 4 Sep 1996 09:58:58 CDT
Subject: articles

Hi all, I am fairly new to HBD but have been a brewer for several years. 
I'm in the process of starting a Homebrew internet BBS and am looking 
for articles/faq's and other general content. With all the recent 
discussion about copyright ect I thought i would simply make a public 
request to anyone who has anything i can use. my email address is 
sysop at brewlink.com. Contributors will recieve a 1 year unlimited access 
account to the BBS (if you like realtime chat, ect) it is a pay system, 
but relativly cheep $60/yr unlimited access, just to cover the ISP costs 
ect. sorry if this is becomming boarderline SPAM. 
 
=================================================== 
Rod Miller - Brewlink Online BBS www.brewlink.com 
Email: sysop at brewlink.com    Voice:417.862.5091 
=================================================== 
 

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From: Billy_Cole at dgii.com (Billy Cole)
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 16:36:49 +0100
Subject: Dry hopping dilema

 
I've been struggling with this one for the last couple of batches. 
 
I have dry hopped my last 2 batches. I added the hop flowers to a hop bag, tied
a
piece of non-waxed dental floss to the hop bag and crammed it into the 
secondary.
When it comes time to bottle, I literally fight with the hop bag trying to get 
it out of
the secondary because I want to squeeze it to get all the hop character out of 
the
hops that I can. I've been reading HBD and it seems that some people just throw
the hop flowers right into the secondary. I can't get cascade pellets, so I've 
been
thinking about doing this. I'm wondering how effecient this is and if I can 
count on
getting the most out of the hops using this method? Or I guess the better 
question
is: What is the simplest way of dry hopping keeping in mind that I want tons o'
hop
character? Thanks. 
 
 
 
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
Billy Cole / Senior Engineer / Digi International 
ph: 206-867-3893x628 / pager: 206-663-0229 
billyc at dgii.com 
 

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From: "Ed J. Basgall" <edb at chem.psu.edu>
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 96 19:43:04 EDT
Subject: small cap-able bottles

7-8 oz bottles.... 
 
I didn't believe it but I have a friend from the UK who 
homebrews and re-uses screw capped beer bottles with 
excellent results.  He cranks them back on with 
a towel for a good grip.  So I know you can use 
those small 7-8 oz twist-offs. 
 
Ed Basgall 
SCUM 
(State College Underground Maltsters) 

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From: John Wilkinson <jwilkins at imtn.tpd.dsccc.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 18:56:31 -0500
Subject: Propane/CO2 bottles

AlK spoke of weighing propane and CO2 bottles to determine when they are near 
empty.  I don't recall weighing my propane bottles but I have weighed my 20# 
CO2 bottles before and after filling and never have had 20# of CO2.  They are 
always a little short.  The places I buy propane and CO2 from both charge for 
what they put in so it doesn't matter but would if trying to determine when 
the bottles were nearly empty. 
I would recommend weighing before filling and writing that weight on the tank 
with a permanent marker.  Then you can tell when it approaches empty. 
With propane I always have a full spare tank so it doesn't make much 
difference,
except for the hassle of changing in mid boil.  I am too cheap to not use the 
last bit, though.  An extra 5 gal. propane tank only costs ~$20 in the Dallas 
area so I find that worthwhile.  By the way, I was told that it costs more to 
have a propane tank recertified than it was worth but a friend found a propane 
dealer nearby who did it for ~$5. I had already replaced one of my out of date 
tanks so I now have three.  Plenty of backup. 
 
John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas 

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From: brewdog at wolfenet.com (Northwest Brewers Supply Co.)
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 17:03:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Seattle Competition Announcement

In article <4nj769$c2k at ratty.wolfe.net>, Tom McFarland <brewdog at wolfe.net> 
wrote to rec.crafts.brewing,alt.beer,rec.food.drink.beer: 
 
> We are pleased to announce the return of the AHA sanctioned Second Annual 
> Great Northwest Homebrew Competition.  The competition will be held in 
> conjunction with the GNMI, the NW's largest indoor beer festival,being 
> held at Pier 48 on the downtown Seattle waterfront.  The $14 fee for your 
> initial entry includes a one-day pass into the festival as well as 
> tasting tokens.  Each additional entry is $2.  Best of Show winner will 
> travel to Portland Brewing Co. to brew a 25 bbl. batch of their winning 
> recipe.  Portland will then distribute the beer at their accounts in the 
> Puget Sound region.  Deadline for entry is October 4th.  Competition will be 
taking place October 18-20th at the beer festival. Judges, apprentices, and 
stewards are also needed.  Questions? 
> Contact Andrea at Northwest Brewers Supply Co: (206)763-BREW or 
brewdog at wolfenet.com 
> 
> 
 
 
 
- ------------------------------ 

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From: Miguel de Salas <mm_de at postoffice.utas.edu.au>
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 10:36:43 -1000
Subject: Re: Hops

>>Is there a way to identify the strain of hops I have found? 
> 
>Yes. At least somewhat.  The cone shape, size, and leaf structure are the 
>general way to tell the type. There are several good books about hops, with 
>full color pics, that you can get that describe the cones and leaves. Some 
>of the hops producers (commercial) also put out a great brochure that have 
>pics of leaves and cones. 
 
        I would reccomment anyone in the US trying to identify a commercial 
variety of hops to have a look at the John I Haas homepage, with pictures of 
leaves and cones of some hop varieties grown by them. 
        Of course this only works with commercial varieties. Almost every 
plant of wild hops is a different strain, since it has been propagated by 
seeds, so it is impossible to identify a wild plant, since they don't belong 
to any variety. It is of course a different case if you have a feral plant, 
which is not truly wild, but even this could be a seedling, therefore have a 
different genetic makeup to its parents, and thus not be a the same variety. 
(Actually one could say it's not a variety at all!) 
        Since hops are native to the US, the chance is a wild plant is truly 
wild, and not a commercial variety. 
 
Cheers, 
      Miguel 
 

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From: comiller at juno.com (Christian O Miller)
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 18:37:46 PST
Subject: siphoning

Ed Basgall wrote 
>I had the same trouble, until I decided to drill a hole into my 
>fermenter (plastic bucket) near the bottom and put on 
>a spigot.  Now I can sample some wort and take hydrometer 
>readings without much fuss.  Be sure to loosen the airlock 
>or the vacuum will suck the juice into your beer.  I also 
>clean the spigot well after sampling and sanitize before 
>using it to drain the fermented beer.  No siphoning needed, just 
>attach a sanitized hose and drain into a secondary or bottling bucket. 
 
It sounds like a good idea. The question for Ed is, how do you keep the 
spigot on the bottom of the fermenter airtight and keep out infection? 
Is it just like the spigot on the bottom of your bottling bucket? 
Private e-mail is Ok. 
 
Christian Miller 
comiller at juno.com 
Brewin' in Durham (CT) 

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From: "David Root" <droot at concentric.net>
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 20:52:47 -0400
Subject: Lp Tanks

I hope this helps some people.  I was brewing in my back yard when I ran 
out of 
propane.  Since my neighbor was not home, I "borrowed" his tank.  When I 
was 
returning the tank, he pulled into the driveway.  I was a little 
embaressed. 
The trick to LP (liquid propane) tanks is to weigh the tank and you will 
know 
how much is in it.  An empty tank weighs 18 Lbs. It holds 20 Lbs of 
propane. 
38 Lbs for a full tank, and 18 empty. 
 Another way is to pour hot water down the side.  Where the liquid 
propane levil is, the tank will be colder than where it is not. This works 
well. 
 
David Root  Lockport NY   Droot at concentric.net 

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From: Ian Smith <rela!isrs at netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 18:55:33 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: duffy's extraction problem

The efficiency for 10# grain at 1.035 into 6.5 gall is (35/10)*6.5=23 
approx. this isn't as bad. Did you perhaps take the hydrometer reading of 
the hot wort ? You should take the reading at 59 or 60 F or measure the 
temperature and adjust the hydometer reading. 
 
Cheers 
Ian Smith 

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From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock at oeonline.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 21:34:02 +0500
Subject: Non-religious Dry hopping... 

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your dictionary... 
 
Um. Well. I said: "Put a gentile handfull of marbles in the bag, add 
your hops (use your..." 
 
What I *meant* to say was genteel. Better said as dainty, but I didn't 
want to offend anyone's machismo. Or be non-PC. Damn my hide! How 
'bout "small handfull?" Doh! Just offended the vertically 
challenged... 
 
My apologies to any non-gentiles who rented a gentile to do their 
dry-hopping or was otherwise inconvenienced by my misspelling... 
 
And woe be unto he that believeth mine error to be a resurection of the 
beer and religion thread of yore! Woe and mercury! Forsooth! 
 
Back to digestion - er, the digest... 
 
See ya! 
 
Pat Babcock in Canton, Michigan (Western Suburb of Detroit) 
pbabcock at oeonline.com  URL: http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/ 
President, Brew-Master and Chief Taste-Tester 
Drinkur Purdee pico Brewery 
 

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From: Dave Greenlee <daveg at mail.airmail.net>
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 23:31:15 -0700
Subject: Cyanide Beer

I was looking at the recipe for Peach Smoked Porter in Cat's Meow III at 
http://alpha.rollanet.org/cm3/recs/04_19.html 
originally published in the HBD by (Matthew_Gregory at avid.com), HBD Issue 
#1726, 5/9/95, which seems to be pretty neat, but I seem to recall 
hearing that all parts of a peach tree are poisonous, being laden with 
cyanide, except for the pulp and skin of the fruit.  I also note that the 
poster hasn't posted again since then ... 
 
Is there any danger in using peach smoke? 
 
Nazdrowie, 
Dave 
 

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From: Dave Greenlee <daveg at mail.airmail.net>
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 23:43:59 -0700
Subject: Extract og/lb/gal

I've been diligently searching around the web for a document giving the 
og per pound per gallon of the various liquid extracts and dry malt 
extracts, but with no luck.  Does anyone know where one might exist? 
Perhaps at some homebrewer supply site? 
 
Nazdrowie, 
Dave 

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From: "Michel J. Brown" <mjbrown at teleport.com>
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 10:57:51 -0700
Subject: All grain dopplebock lager temperature

I made a batch of all grain (Belgian) dopplebock on sunday, and it came out 
at 1.086 OG using 14# of grain in a 5.5 gallon batch. What bothers me is that 
after starting the ferment at 70 degrees fahrenheit, I put the pail (per the 
wyeast directions) into my beer fridge. Current temp is 45 degrees F, and 
fermentation has slowed tremendously. I usually ferment lagers at 50-60 
degrees F, but thought better of it this time. Am I shafting myself, or will 
this turn out ok? Anyway, RDWHAHB! 
 
- -- 
         Dr. Michel J. Brown, D.C. 
  mjbrown at teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~mjbrown 
            Brewer, Patriot, Physician, Husband, and Father 
 
 

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From: Chuck Mryglot <CMRYGLOT at datx.com>
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 96 07:15:00 EST
Subject: killing yeast and Ofest maltiness

 
A couple of things.... 
 
 
1.   How do I kill yeast and make sure it is dead.....e.g.   I use a 
plastic 
fermenter. If I change yeasts, how can I be sure that there is none of 
the old yeast 
lurking behind...even though I have cleaned it thoroughly.  Will a 
water/bleach soak 
do the trick? 
 
 
2.  Anyone know any details about the Ofest formulations of the Munich 
breweries? 
e.g.  Grain bill, hop schedule,...etc.  Also, how can I get that rich 
malty/nutty nose? 
None of the American Ofests (thet I have seen) have been able to achieve 
this.... 
 
Zum Wohl 
 
Chuckm 
 
- ------------------------------ 

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From: MaltyDog at aol.com
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 09:36:53 -0400
Subject: Orval Yeast Culture

 I have a question relating to my experiences in yeast culturing. A while 
ago, I decided to culture some yeast from a bottle of Orval, to see if I 
could duplicate the style (a good way of saving some money!). There have been 
several books stating that they use a lager yeast in the bottling, but there 
was also a homebrewing recipe book out a of couple years back (it's not in 
front of me now, so I can't get the name or authors) which included a recipe 
for an Orval-style beer, using yeast cultured from the bottle. 
 
Anyway, I tried culturing the yeast, and let me tell you, what I got from 
that bottle wasn't lager yeast! It had a very strong aroma, reminiscent of 
Orval beers, and so I decided to brew with. I was an extract brewer at the 
time, so I worked at a friends set up, using all-grain (with a pound or so of 
candy sugar. We did a split batch, with the Orval yeast being entered in the 
primary, or entered the  secondary, and a different primary yeast (a Chimay 
culture or Chico ale yeast). In all cases, the beer came out very delicious, 
with a strong Orval-like aroma and flavor. 
 
However, there was something odd about all three batches. The attenuation on 
the beer was insane! The starting gravity was 1.054, pretty much true to 
style, and the finishing gravity, on all three batches was 0.099! I've never 
had a finishing gravity that low. Sounds more like a mead! 
 
I made another batch of beer with the same yeast some time later, and the 
attenuation wasn't quite as extreme. In this case, the starting gravity was 
1.059, and the final gravity was 1.010. That's still fairly attenuative, but 
not over 100% apparent attenuation! In order to keep the final gravity that 
high, I mashed at 157 degrees, and used 1.50 pounds of Caravienne and 2 
pounds of Caravienne malt! That's a lot of dextrins! 
 
Now, according to Michael Jackson's books, the real Orval can go up as much 
as 2% alcohol after bottling, so that suggests that the yeast is supposed to 
be quite vigorous and attenuative. I was curious to hear from any other 
homebrewers that have tried culturing from Orval bottles, to see if they had 
similar results, or different ones. I'm thinking about making another batch 
soon, and I'd like to take advantage of other people's experience. 
 

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From: Tim.Watkins at analog.com
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 96 9:49:53 EDT
Subject: Kegging

Hi all, 
 
 Does anyone have any experience using the readily available 15.5 
gallon kegs (or for that matter, the 7.75 gallon ones).  I have a cousin 
who works a Miller distributor (no Miller jokes, please...), and I can get 
a CO2 system really cheap.  Has anyone ever used these, and/or is it 
do-able?  Specifically, I guess the important question is how to remove the 
valve so they can be filled. 
 
      Thanks, 
       Tim 

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