---

   FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
        Shawn Steele, Digest Janitor
        Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!

Contents:
  Jovial atmospheric effects (Larry Johnson)
  Kegs in the mountains k ("Mark C. Bellefeuille")
  grain alcohol sanitizer/vienna & munich malts/NO2 gas use (Tim Martin)
  Source for Plastic Hose Fittings (KennyEddy at aol.com)
  Beer yeast for bread baking? ("Toler, Duffy L.")
  barleywine priming ("Bryan L. Gros")
  Kegging ("Kirk R Fleming")
  restricting posts (bob rogers)
  mash tun screens (Marty Purselley)
  The use of epsom salts  ((Mark Preston))
  Rebecca Lynne Heavner (lheavner at tcmail.frco.com)
  Champagne yeast ((John (The Coyote) Wyllie))
  Sam Adams Homebrew Contest (Kit Anderson)
  RE: Columbus Hops ("Don Van Valkenburg")
  Home Grown Hops ((Aesoph, Michael))
  Payment for services rendered (smurman at best.com)
  Zapped again? ("David R. Burley")
  Rigging a cooler ((Dennis Geist))
  new guy stuff (Jzdial at aol.com)
  Waiting mail  (msg.aa25388) (aob.org AOB Mail Delivery System try --)
  Re: carbonating kegs/copper ((Nigel Townsend))
  RE:  Lagering in cornies / yeast in fridge / allergies ((George De Piro))
  Corny Keg Fittings/All Grain Thanks ("Toler, Duffy L.")
  Wheat flakes ("Braam Greyling")
  Malt crushing (korz at pubs.ih.lucent.com)

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  As with all forums such as this one, copyrights are retained by the
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----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Larry Johnson <Maltster at ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 13:03:54 -0700
Subject: Jovial atmospheric effects

I just got around to reading a pile of HBD's (I was away for a while - I'm 
back now) and ran across Dave Draper's comments in #2183 about atmosphere 
and environment affecting your intoxication level on a given amount of beer. 
(His comments were in response to Peter ensminger's in #2181, BTW) 
 
I don't know if I notice much difference in intoxication due to 
surroundings, although I definitely have times when I can drink more and 
stay lucid than other times.  However, I have definitely noticed a 
difference in taste between beers consumed out-and-about and beers consumed 
at home.  I know what this sounds like, but it's the honest truth.  A given 
beer tastes better to me if I'm drinking it in the company of others than if 
I am alone. 
 
My wife doesn't drink very often, so if I have one at home, it's usually 
just me and the dog (he gets the spillage).  It tastes OK and all, but it 
just seems to taste better when I'm at the brewpub or the Globe (Athens' 
greatest alehouse) or wherever and there's people about.  I don't mean I 
just enjoy it more; the beer actually tastes better for some reason. 
 
Now, I was never taught to be alarmed about drinking alone or that it was a 
sign of personal problems.  Hell, I was raised in a Southern Baptist 
household; if you didn't drink alone, you *never* got any.  I don't feel 
uncomfortable drinking alone - it just doesn't taste as good.   And yes, I'm 
talking about having the same brand/style of beer in each place. 
 
Psychological?  Hell, yes.  But what's the underlying cause of this effect? 
Dunno. 
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 
Way down south they had a jubilee, 
Them Georgia folks, they had a jamboree. 
They were drinking homebrew from a wooden cup, 
The folks that were dancin' there got all shook up. 
 
                    Chuck Berry - "Rock 'n Roll Music" 
 
Larry Johnson  /  Athens, GA  /  Maltster at ix.netcom.com 
Come and see the Web page at http://www.netcom.com/~maltster 
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 
 

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From: "Mark C. Bellefeuille" <mcb at abrams.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 13:40:03 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Kegs in the mountains k

 
After my last post Troy from ucla sent me the following: 
 
> >>>>>>>>>>> 
> driving them across the state and then checking to see it the beer is still 
> clear. (I'm camping next weekend. I'll need beer in the mountains. I'll try 
> it and see. Report to follow.) 
> <<<<<<<<<<< 
> 
> You may have already thought of this, but in case not:  this May I brought 
> a keg up to the mountains for a camping trip.  I live near the beach at 
> about 0 feet elevation, and the keg was perfectly carbonated.  When I got 
> up the mountains (4000 ft.) the keg spewed nothing but foam.  My friend 
> (who also lives at about 0 ft) brought a keg also, but it poured well.  He 
> said he expected this effect of altitude and had purposely underconditioned 
> it. 
> 
> You may want to consider underconditioning it if the altitude is 
> significantly different. 
> 
> -Troy 
 
I wondered if longer serving lines might solve the problem. 
Troy said he wouldn't mind getting the hbd mavins to offer insights 
on the problem. 
So: 
I live at about 1200ft and the camp will be at about 7800ft. 
I serve at keep my ales at 12psi. 
How long would 3/16" lines need to be to prevent foaming? 
I believe I'd really enjoy my; porter, ipa, and pale, at 7800ft without 
excessive foam. 
... 
Yes I'm sure the BATF or the Arizona arm of the BATF could take offense at 
my enjoying this in a National Forest. But; hey you only live once. 
... 
And: Is it only Democrats that can take politically correct pot shots on 
the hbd? Or can anyone chip in with politically incorrect diatribes on 
non-brewing subjects? 
 
- --------------------------------------------------------------- 
Mark C. Bellefeuille    BEER! Because Barley makes lousy bread! 
mcb at abrams.com          Brewing in Phoenix AZ    (602) 759-9273 
- --------------------------------------------------------------- 
 

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From: Tim Martin <TimM at southwest.cc.nc.us>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 17:34:32 -0300
Subject: grain alcohol sanitizer/vienna & munich malts/NO2 gas use

Hey Neighbors, 
 
I have been following the discussion recently about sanitizing 
carboy opening and other glass and plastic items.  I thought I 
would passing along a little techniques I use.  I bought a 
bottle of grain alcohol and found a plastic sprayer in the 
house that fit the threads on the bottle.  When ever I need to 
sanitize the mouth of my boy I just squirt a little grain alcohol 
on it and flick it with my bick.  This gives me a little flame 
that burns for several seconds.  I figure between the grain 
and the flame it is doing double duty in sanitizing.  I use the 
grain alcohol for many other things also, like sanitizing that 
little orange thing that goes onto the end of the racking cane 
that I always forget to throw into my bucket of chlorine 
sanitizer (of course I don't flame the orange thing).  In fact, 
any place I think there is a germ that my contact my beer I 
give it a quick squirt.  Plus I think it's cool to use beer's big 
brother (grain alcohol) to help me. 
********************************************* 
In post #2177 George Fix suggest using Durst Munich or 
Vienna malts as partial replacement of base malt.  I guess I 
am a bit confused.  A recent brewer mentioned he tried to do 
a whole batch with Vienna (I believe) malt that his supplier 
recommended but it would not mash because it did not have 
the enzymes needed.  My question is does Vienna and 
Munich malts have enzymes or not?  Of course George only 
mentions doing a partial replacement of base malts.  Does 
this then mean that the other base malt's enzymes will carry 
the Vienna or Munich malt.  I have been using both of these 
malts recently but only in small quantities.  I was under the 
understanding that these did have enzymes.  It seems like 
I've read on the HBD where other brewers have mentioned 
using Munich as the sole malt. Well, you can see my 
confusion.  Can someone please straighten me out on this. 
****************************************** 
With the recent thread on tanks I thought it might be a good 
time to ask a question I've had for awhile.  At the college 
where I work I got two tanks with double gauge regulators 
from surplus.  The tanks and gas are used to calibrate blood 
gas & respiratory instruments.  They appear to be 10 pound 
tanks.  They are filled with 90% N2 and 10% CO2.  Since 
they were last inspected in 1984 which means I would need 
to pay to get them hydro tested before getting them refilled. 
But they do have gas in them now.  At first I thought I could 
use them for kegging but the hoses appear to small.  Then I 
thought I could use the gas to purge hops before freezing and 
to purge carboys.  What do you all think?  Can I use this 
mixture?  If so, what are some other things can I do with it? 
 
Sorry for all the bandwidth but I haven't been able to post in a 
long time. 
 
Thanks, 
Tim Martin 
Buzzard's Roost Homebrewery 
"with that strong predatory taste" 
Cullowhee, NC. 
 
 

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From: KennyEddy at aol.com
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 17:52:36 -0400
Subject: Source for Plastic Hose Fittings

If you're looking for specialty plastic hose fittings for your brewery, I 
have a suggestion.  I just received a catalog/price list from Eldon James 
Corp today along with some sample plastic fittings.  They have a good variety 
of threaded and barbed doohickeys in several plastics, and their prices seem 
pretty reasonable.  Best thing for us low-volume users is that they accept 
orders under $50 with a $4 handling fee.  Kinda adds a bit to the bill but if 
you're looking for some really hard-to-find combination of thread and barb 
sizes, it might be worth it. 
 
Eldon James, Corp. 
510 East 5th Street 
Loveland, CO  80537 
(970) 667-2728 
 
Screw the disclaimer. 
 
***** 
 
Ken Schwartz 
El Paso, TX 
KennyEddy at aol.com 
http://members.aol.com/kennyeddy 

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From: "Toler, Duffy L." <TOLERD at cdnet.cod.edu>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 96 17:07:00 PDT
Subject: Beer yeast for bread baking?

 
O.K.  I already use spent grains in bread, the Russians use bread to make 
beer but.... 
has anyone ever tried to use beer yeast dregs for bread baking?  I would 
appreciate any experiences on yeast varieties used and/or bread styles. 
 Private posts are O.K.  I'll synopsize if there is interest.   I can see it 
now..... use 1007 for alt & pumpernickel. 
 
Thanks much! 
 
Duffy 

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From: "Bryan L. Gros" <grosbl at ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 15:33:52 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: barleywine priming

My first barleywine came out really nice.  And it took a first and second 
in two competitions in california last winter (when it was nine months old). 
 I added champagne yeast to the secondary of this beer.  It went from 1.115 
to 1.033 or so.  I primed with about 1/3 cup corn sugar in 5 gallons (didn't 
weigh the priming sugar).  The carbonation was light but right at what I was 
aiming for. 
 
My second bw has been in the bottles for about eight weeks now.  The 
ones I've tried are dead flat.  I primed about the same as for the first beer. 
This beer was a bit different recipe, but it went from 1.095 to 1.025 or 
so (Wyeast 1056).  I didn't add champagne yeast; I'm not planning to 
use the champagne yeast again.  I had it in the secondary for about six 
weeks and bottled it. 
 
A local brewer suggested I open my bottles and add a bit of yeast 
slurry and recap.  He gave me a jar of 1056 slurry and I proceeded to 
add a drop or two to each bottle. 
Turns out that three or four bottles on one end of my case fizzed up 
when I opened them.  They were probably filled about the same time 
and possible were the first ones filled (since they were in one corner 
of the box).  This suggests to me that I didn't mix the priming sugar 
well when I bottled the first time.  If this is the case, then adding 
new yeast won't help me carbonate the bw (probably); I need 
to add some sugar to each bottle. 
 
I'll wait a couple weeks and see if adding the yeast helped, but I 
will probably just keep these for myself and deal with the uneven 
carbonation. 
 
Is the higher alcohol level hindering mixing of the priming sugar? 
Never had uneven carbonation before. 
 
          - Bryan 
            grosbl at ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu 
            Nashville, TN 
 

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From: "Kirk R Fleming" <flemingk at usa.net>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 17:48:07 -0600
Subject: Kegging

The Coyote said: 
 
<Sanitize, AND sterilize your keg.  Assemble, and prefill (purge) with CO2. 
 
<Rack beer into keg. Leave some head space (about 5 or 6 inches).  As any 
<young teenie bopper will tell you- six inches is /THAT/ much (thumb & 
<forefinger held up) 
 
...and Jim B replies: 
 
Im not sure how literally to take this!  I like to fill the kegs just about 
 
as full to the top as I can get it.  Less air risk, even with purging. 
Just 
dont want new keggers to leave 5-6" of head space, thats a lot of space! 
(BTW, kegs dont need to be sterilized, sanitized is just fine ;-) 
 
How practice does differ.  Assembling the keg and purging prior to filling 
is one 
way to do it, of course.  Uses a lot of gas and you never know if you've 
really 
purged the oxygen--I tend to doubt you do unless you're very patient and 
use a 
lot of CO2.  I prefer to rack into the keg like I would into any vessel, 
and let the 
beer itself purge the tank.  Even if you don't splash, I think enough CO2 
comes 
out of the beer to provide a satisfactory blanket over the surface.  Since 
you're 
not splashing anyway, even if the surface were covered with air I wouldn't 
expect aeration to be an issue. 
 
As for Jim's concern about 6" being a lot of headspace, I don't understand 
that, either.  If you think you can purge an empty tank, you can certainly 
purge 6" of tank.  I brew 4 gal batches quite often, and have kept ale for 
well over 6 months with no sign of oxidation (to my dull palate)--filling 
to only 
about 10" from the top, I'd say. 
 

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From: bob rogers <bob at carol.net>
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 23:27:37 -0400
Subject: restricting posts

it seems a reasonable restriction would be to put a "password" in the HBD 
header. any posts without the password would bounce. thus anyone who _reads_ 
the HBD could easily post. 
 
bob- brewing in the heart of the bible belt 
bob rogers   bob at carol.net 
 

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From: Marty Purselley <brewer at flash.net>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 23:49:34 -0500
Subject: mash tun screens

I would like to hear any suggestions for a mash tun screen.  I am in the 
process of building a half barrel 
system based on a beer keg.  I want a screen that will stand up to a 
heavy grain bill.  Has anyone tried the PICO screen? 
Thanks,  Marty 

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From: prestonm at labyrinth.net.au (Mark Preston)
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 17:11:12 +1000 (EST)
Subject: The use of epsom salts 

Hello Fellow Brew Buddies..... 
 
This is my first post to HBD, and hopefully not my last.... 
Whilst reading threw back issues of the HBD I come across a writing from 
Bill Griffin, in issue # 2162, explaining how a friend of his was stricken 
with diarrhoea after drinking to much amber fluid during the war... 
He attributed his friends condition to the use of Epsom Salts in beer, a 
practice he explained was used during the war to increase bitterness cheeply.. 
 
This has alarm bells ringing in my ears, does anyone know if this practice 
continues today??? 
 
The asking of this is simply I think I maybe the victim of such a 
happening.. I have been making beer for just over twelve months and enjoy 
the fruits of my labour.. However I have recently changed KIT brands and 
have had problems with matters of running to the toilet, not long after 
consumming the product, 2-3 hours.. I put this phenomenon down to winter 
bugs and virus going around here this winter untill I read Bill Griffans 
writtings... One might assume that I have over consumed, however I doubt 
this to be the case. This experience has happened on 2 occasions after only 
consuming 5-6 375ml bottles... On one occassion I was physically ill, 
vomiting and running to the toilet... If I drink less I don't seem to be 
affected... Although friends that have helped me consume this product don't 
seem to be affected (Well at least they are not letting me know), it also 
has led me to believe prehaps the problem is nothing to do with epsom salts, 
more reaction, to some ingrediant... I guess I should tell you that the beer 
I brew is a mild bitter about 25-28 IBU... 
 
Other peoples input would be greatfully excepted... 
 
PS. I don't have any problems when consuming commercial beers, no matter the 
quantity. 
 
 

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From: lheavner at tcmail.frco.com
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 22:49:07 -0500
Subject: Rebecca Lynne Heavner

     News Flash!!!! 
     Who says Friday the 13th is unlucky??  Another Brewster-in-Training 
     arrived in this world today at 1:29pm.  She is 9 lbs 2 oz and 20.5 
     inches.  Mom and baby are doing great.  Dad and 1st BIT are ecstatic. 
     I'm currently celebrating with a red ale.  I will dedicate my first 
     all-grain and lager to her. 
     9 # Pils malt 
     2 # Noble hops 
     lager for 20.5 days. 
 
     What yeast should I use?? 
 
     Thanks for the bandwidth!! 
 
     Another proud Papa (APP) 
 
     Lou Heavner 
     Heavy's Habenero Homebrewery 

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From: ccoyote at sunrem.com (John (The Coyote) Wyllie)
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 05:07:47 -0600
Subject: Champagne yeast

> 
>From: MaltyDog at aol.com 
>Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 14:47:13 -0400 
>Subject: Re: Barley Wine Conditioning 
 
>The last item is of importance, because different yeasts can drastically 
>change the flavor of a beer, even at bottle conditioning; for that reason, I 
>would never add champagne yeast. True, it can handle the gravity, but it was 
>not cultivated for beer, it doesn't ferment the same way as beer yeasts, and 
>it will not result in the same flavors. There are many beer  yeasts that can 
>handle high gravity, and there is no reason not to stick with them. I'm not 
>saying that it is impossible to get very good results using wine yeast for 
>bottling-conditioning, but it does not seem worth the risk. 
> 
*** 
I think a bigger issue to consider is that if you used a beer with 
attenuation X that has fermented itself to completion, best of its ability 
(for a barleywine this will take some time) and then add a yeast with a 
higher attenuation Y,and bottle right away you run the risk of making a 
batch of "Barleybombs" !  The champagne yeast has a much higher alcohol 
tolerance than many beer yeasts (hence why its used for wine, which is 
generally stronger in alcohol than most beers) and will be more readily 
able to ferment out any remaining- fermentables- left behiond by the less 
tolerant beer yeast. 
 
A safer approach (one i used for my first barley wine (Blebbing Barney 
Whine) was to ferment for about a month with beer yeast (racked from 
primary to 2ndary) then when it seemed to have gone as far as it would (og 
was ~90, fg1 was ~30- still too damn sweet!) I added a champagne yeast 
starter then let that ferment out.  Brought things down to fg2 of 15.  It 
still had plenty of body and sweetness.  Bottled with 3/4cup corn sugar. 
It did take some time to carbonate, but hell- I was planning on aging it a 
year anyway!  After about 6 months (ok, so I dipped in for samples, to 
'monitor' the aging process) it was properly carbonated, and smoothed out a 
lot.  After a year is was nectar.  After 3 years (last bottle went at a 
homebrewclub meeting) it was truly heavenly.  Smooth, almost creamy, good 
head, full body, and very potent!  I had intended to make a barley wine 
every year (around xmas time) for the following year.  Well,....uh, er. 
Lets just say I'm a little behind in my barleys! 
 
I agree that there are plenty of beer yeasts that can handle the challenge. 
And concur that wine yeasts do have different qualities, but I wouldn't 
say the ferment "differently".  The basic biochemistry is the same- 
sugar->EtOH, CO2. 
Its all those sidereactions, unfermenteds, etc etc which will add "other" 
flavors.  There are plenty of beer yeasts which will make all kinds of 
fruity/ estery kinds of flavors some might find appealing, others wont 
like.  Take the abbey ale yeast for example.  It is highly alcohol 
tolerant, but contributes a lot of strong flavors, which take time to 
mellow and balance.   While other stong beer yeasts have much less estery 
character to them.  Whereas champage yeast has a very clean dry flavor to 
it.  I have found more chemical flavors from champagne yeast that other 
wine yeasts when making meads.  Some people swear they'll never use it, but 
I think it has a place (if you want a dry low body beverage, and want it 
sparkling.  Its made some nice ciders) 
 
   Just 2c worth.  Youll have to pay extra for the full dollar version! haha. 
 
- --------------------------------------------------------------- 
///  John-    The Cosmic Coyote   -Wyllie\\\ ccoyote at sunrem.com 
'As long as he's got 8 fingers and toes, he's ok by me!' H.J.S. 
- --------------------------------------------------------------- 
 
 

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From: Kit Anderson <kit at maine.com>
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 15:16:13 -0500
Subject: Sam Adams Homebrew Contest

Anybody get back their stuff from entering the Sam Adams Homebrew Contest? 
Yesterday the packet came. A T-shirt, powdered hops (they were pellets once, 
I think) and the score sheets. I submitted a wit that Greg Noonan gave a 40 
to. The two non-ranked judges gave it a 22. Chill haze, estery, acidic were 
the only comments. This was NOT worth $5 plus shipping costs. Buy a lottery 
ticket and a six pack instead. 
- --- 
 
Kit  Anderson 
Bath, Maine 
<kit at maine.com> 
The Maine Beer Page  http://www.maine.com/brew 
 

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From: "Don Van Valkenburg" <DONVANV at msn.com>
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 96 19:30:52 UT
Subject: RE: Columbus Hops

"O'Mahoney, Larry" <LLOM at chevron.com> 
asks: Anyone know about these (Columbus) hops? 
 
Columbus were developed and are sold by HOPUNION of Yakama, Washington. 
HOPUNION has not yet released the breading information,  but as brewers who 
have tried them know they are a very nice bittering hop with excellent 
dryhopping characteristics. 
 
Don Van Valkenburg 
 Stein Fillers Brewing Supply--- 
 Home of the MINI-REGULATOR 

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From: aesoph at ncemt1.ctc.com (Aesoph, Michael)
Date: 14 Sep 96 16:25:10 EDT
Subject: Home Grown Hops

Dear Collective: 
 
 
 
 An Uncle of mine has some hops growing in his back yard.  He's not a 
home brewer and is quite annoyed by this because the darn plant just 
won't go away and grows up to a foot a day completely covering his porch. 
 Anyway, I was wondering where one could get hop seeds and start home 
growing hops.  I guess I would also need information on how to prepare 
them also.  Thanks in advance. 
 
 
 
================================================== 
 
        Michael D. Aesoph                Associate Engineer 
 
================================================== 
 

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From: smurman at best.com
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 16:18:57 -0700
Subject: Payment for services rendered

 
There's been some discussion of sharing recipes lately.  Another list 
I follow (Chile-Heads) has an unwritten agreement that when you 
ask for advice from the collective, you repay with a recipe of some 
sort.  Since I've been on the HBD, I've gotten a lot of helpful 
information, some of which went to creating this brew.  This is my way 
of thanking the HBD (and keeping in good graces as I prepare to ask a 
lot of questions when I move to all-grain). 
 
This is an extract recipe for a heavy porter.  It has a taste similar 
to Sam Smith's Taddy Porter.  Feel free to provide feedback or 
criticism. 
 
Mo Porter 
 
6 gallons H2O (I lose about 3/4 gallon) 
Wyeast 1056 
8 lbs Amber Malt Extract 
12 oz. Black Patent Malt 
4 oz. Chocolate Malt 
1 oz. Centennial Hops (11.4% AA) - 60 min. 
1/2 oz. Willamette Hops (3.9% AA) - 15 min. 
1 cup BlackStrap Molasses - 15 min. 
 
O.G. 1.080  at  60 degrees F 
F.G. 1.016  at  60 degrees F 
 
Fermetation completed in about 6 days using a starter.  Aged for 
another week.  Serve in a heavy mug. 
 
SM 
 
 
- ------- End of Forwarded Message 
 

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From: "David R. Burley" <103164.3202 at CompuServe.COM>
Date: 15 Sep 96 08:08:30 EDT
Subject: Zapped again?

Shawn, 
 
This is AM Sunday 15 September and I have not received Saturday's HBD. check to
see if I got ZAPPED. 
 
Keep on brewin' 
 
Dave Burley 
Kinnelon, NJ 07405 USA 
103164.3202 at COMPUSERVE.COM 
 

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From: dgeist at uidaho.edu (Dennis Geist)
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 09:22:51 -0700
Subject: Rigging a cooler

I am ready to advance from Tenderfoot (extract + specialty malt fiascos) to 
the real thing (all grain fiascos). I got a real good deal on a 50 qt. 
Coleman-type cooler, and I'd like to rig a copper pipe strainer at the 
bottom and a sprayer on top. 
  What's the best way to connect the copper pipes to the drain plug? 
  Anyone have a good design for a sprayer (sparger) on top? What's a good 
way to get the water in? 
  Does anyone have a good source for plastic spigots that can be attached 
to plastic containers? 
  Thanks. And by the way, I really enjoy most contributions to this 
journal. Don't let all the crap dissuade you. Cheers, Dennis Geist 
 
 

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From: Jzdial at aol.com
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 13:29:54 -0400
Subject: new guy stuff

Having brewed less then 100 gallons of beer and only the last 60 using all 
grains I classify 
myself as a very green novice. There is lots of questions and not knowing 
lots of brewers, 
expecially ag folks, few answers until I discovered this delightful service. 
After racking the first half of a ten gallon batch of porter to the Korny 
keg, it dawned on me that I 
had not blanketed the beer with co2. Normally I give the empty keg a good 
blast from the co2 
cylinder. The second 5 gallons I rectified my mistake. The kegs were filled 
quite nearly to the 
top-about 3 inches. How bad was my error? 
A friend from work stumbled across some hops growing near him. He picked a 
nice sackfull and 
gave them to me. There is no brand name or model number on the flowers. 
Should I use these 
helter skelter not knowing anything about their bitterness? 
One last question. I am presently using a Corona mill on perpetual loan from 
a very casual 
brewing friend. I have acsess to a machine shop and friendly machinist (he 
likes my beers). 
Will two knurled rollers with adjustable spacing for various grain sizes do 
the trick. Maybe I 
should just spring for a good mill. What kind has found favor? 

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From: aob.org AOB Mail Delivery System <mmdf at aob.org> try <info at aob.org> -- <mmdf at aob.org>
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 96 12:57:00 MDT
Subject: Waiting mail  (msg.aa25388)

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From: nigelt at delm.tas.gov.au (Nigel Townsend)
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 10:12:29 +1000
Subject: Re: carbonating kegs/copper

carbonation 
I am listening to this thread with interest at the moment as I am 
considering setting up such a system at the moment. 
 
In HBD 2185, Michael McCaw commented on George de Piro's suggestions for 
carbonating a keg,suggesting: 
 
  "Put a liquid in fitting on your gas line (or a y connector with two 
fittings - even a valve, if you want to get fancy) and carbonate through 
the long tube 
that goes all the way to the bottom of the keg". 
 
The advantage of this approach appears to be (when vertical), the CO2 
passes through the the majority of the liquid, presumably becoming absorbed 
faster.  I am wondering if a minor adaption may make this more effective. 
In some cases liquid effluent from a sewage treatment plant outlet pipe 
which is placed into water bodies passes through a diffuser.  Essentially 
these diffusers consist of a number of holes towards the end of the pipe, 
presumably smaller in diameter than the end of the pipe. 
 
Based on this concept, would there be advantage in drilling a number of 
small holes into the long tube that goes to the bottom of the keg? anyone 
tried this and did it work? 
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
copper 
 
I have in my possession a large copper cylander (about 6 foot high) which 
provided hot water for the house until it sprung a leak. Assuming that the 
leak is fixable, would this be of use for mashing or boiling?    I have 
removed it from its case and insulation (cork beads) and it is now naked. 
It is probably 40 years old and appears pretty heavy guage metal.  I have 
been using extract for several years now and wish to move into the big 
time. 
 
Thanks for your help 
 
Nigel Townsend, 
Hobart, Tasmania 
 
 

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From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com (George De Piro)
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 08:37:54 -0700
Subject: RE:  Lagering in cornies / yeast in fridge / allergies

     Hello! 
 
     AJ Delange wonders if volatiles can be scrubbed out of the beer faster 
     by repeatedly pressurizing and venting the kegs.  As I originally 
     posted, this technique can be used to purge volatiles from the beer, 
     but seems time consuming.  It's easiest to just let them leave the 
     beer on their own accord, then keg it. 
 
     The fastest technique is to bubble CO2 through the beer (in a vented 
     container, of course).  The CO2 will remove other dissolved gasses 
     from the beer very quickly, although you'll get a mountain of foam. 
     Again, I think it's easier to just keg the beer after it has lost 
     undesirable volatiles on its own in the vented secondary.  You have to 
     lager it a while anyway.  What's the rush? 
     ----------------- 
     Ed K. asks about the length of time you can store yeast dregs in the 
     fridge.  Well, as I just found out, it depends on the yeast.  Wyeast 
     3068 (Weihenstephan wheat) did not survive very well after 
     refrigerator storage begun on July 27.  Screwed up my brewing plans! 
     Other strains I've used have been OK for this length of time. 
     ----------------- 
     Geoff Scott writes that he is trying to build up antibodies to ward 
     off an allergic response to hops.  That is exactly what you DON'T 
     want!  Allergies are your immune system's way of overreacting to an 
     antigen.  Antibodies are produced as part of this overreaction. 
     ----------------- 
     Oh yeah, more shameless self promotion:  for those within radio range 
     of NY city, I will once again be on the "Beer and Food Show."  That's 
     TONIGHT (Monday, Sept. 16) from 8 to 9 pm.  It's broadcast on both 
     1460 AM and 93.5 FM. 
 
     I still have no commercial interest in this, etc.  (don't even get 
     paid!) 
 
     Have fun! 
 
     George De Piro  (Nyack, NY) 

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From: "Toler, Duffy L." <TOLERD at cdnet.cod.edu>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 96 08:43:00 PDT
Subject: Corny Keg Fittings/All Grain Thanks

 
Is there any material difference between the fittings (gas in/liquid out) on 
a ball lock Corny keg?  On the kegs I just acquired, one fitting is a 
run-of-the-mill hex shape, the other is the shape of the closed end of a 
wrench, whatever that is called.  Are they interchangeable?  Private e-mail 
is fine, suggestions for further reading appreciated too! 
 
Thanks to all who gave me tips on improving my extraction efficiency.  I 
brewed an alt this weekend and achieved a little over 27 points.  This is a 
great forum! 
 
Keep on Brewin'! 
 
Duffy Toler 

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From: "Braam Greyling" <acg at knersus.nanoteq.co.za>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 16:46:12 +200
Subject: Wheat flakes

Hi there 
 
My homebrew supplier got some wheat flakes. I was wondering what 
effect will it have on beer. 
 
What effect will it have on the body, taste and mouthfeel of the 
beer ? In what types of beer can I use it ? 
 
Thanks 
Braam Greyling           I.C. Design Engineer 
Nanoteq (Pty) Ltd 
tel. +27 (12) 665-1338  fax +27 (12) 665-1343 
- ---- 24 hours in a day, 24 beers in a case ---- 
- ----     coincidence ?????                 ---- 

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From: korz at pubs.ih.lucent.com
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 96 13:24:02 CDT
Subject: Malt crushing

Sorry for the delay... I've been on holiday. 
 
Dave says: 
>AlK says he thinks malt should be crushed until it is ideally *all* flour 
Maybe
>he has a different definition of flour than most people. 
 
Then Dave goes on to quote Noonan and MBS (actually, a Copyright 
infringement ;^) in which Noonan says that too much flour can cause excessive 
balling and caking.  First, you don't have to quote easily accessable sources 
like Noonan.  We can all look it up if we don't believe you.  All you need to 
say is what the gist of Noonan's thoughts are on the topic. 
 
Secondly, I never said I think that malt should be crushed until it is 
all flour.  If you took the time to quote me in your response, you would 
not have mis-paraphrased me.  I don't recall exactly what I wrote (and 
did not keep a copy this time), but it was probably very similar to the 
first paragraph of what I posted on May 15, 1996: 
 
Al>George Fix wrote an article for Zymurgy (the issue with the mill comparison)
Al>and in it he wrote that ideally, we would like to have the husks intact, but
Al>the insides compleatly turned to flour.  I believe he quoted from DeClerck. 
Al> 
Al>Basically, flour is not a bad thing unless you mash-in sloppily and get 
Al>balled starch.  If that's the case, then flour can be a problem.  Perhaps 
Al>what I'm trying to say is that the more flour you have, the more careful 
Al>you need to be when mashing-in, but otherwise it's not a problem.  It will 
Al>all get converted to sugars if everything else in your mash goes well... 
Al>right? 
 
Clearly it is impossible for us to turn all our starch to flour and have 
the husks virtually intact unless we shell each malt corn, separate the 
two and then pulverise the endosperms.  I don't think that even homebrewers 
are fool enough to do this.  I futher contend that if you were fool enough 
to do this and doughed-in very carefully (cold water added slowly to the 
grist, not adding grist to water) you would be able to make perfectly good 
beer, Noonan's *practical* discussion of the problems of excessive flour 
notwithstanding. 
 
Dave also writes: 
>Not to mention a set mash and a difficult sparge for a grist with lots of 
>flour. 
 
A set mash (aka stuck sparge) would be a problem if the husks were over- 
crushed which are unavoidable if you are trying to turn your endosperms all 
to flour with a roller mill (i.e. a very fine crush).  If the husks were 
mostly intact and you doughed-in properly, you would be no more likely to 
have a set mash then if you used a "normal" crush. 
 
The whole point of this and my initial post, which Dave seems to have 
changed, is that flour content should not be the primary measure of the 
quality of a crush... the integrity of the husks is far more important! 
 
Al. 
 
Al Korzonas 
Palos Hills, IL 

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