---

   FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
        Shawn Steele, Digest Janitor
        Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!

Contents:
  Mailer Problems ((Shawn Steele))
  Emergency replacement for campde (eric fouch)
  long fermentation (Scott Campbell)
  CA State Homebrew Comp ("Rad Equipment")
  Re: Vienna & Munich/Resberry gravity (Don Trotter)
  Yeast Combo (Scott Dornseif)
  Who needs 'em? or stupid brewer tricks... ((Charley))
  knifing and channeling (korz at pubs.ih.lucent.com)
  jet burner cajun cooker (Terry)
  Thames Valley Wyeast ((Scott Abene))
  changing yeast at priming time/more head retention and body (korz at pubs.ih.lucent.com)
  Error/Oxygen/Magnesium ((A. J. deLange))
  Syracuse, NY Competition, Nov 23 ("Kieran O'Connor")
  Re: To RIMS or to not...? / SPAM the SPAMMERS ("Keith Royster")
  Re: Copper in Beer ((John A DeCarlo))
  Boil kettle/Mash tun ("Paul Kensler")
  professionals in amateur homebrew competitions (Andy Walsh)
  Reviews we can taste -ATTENTION BEER JUDGES ("Meisner Wallie MSM GRPP US")
  Re: vienna & munich malts (Russ Brodeur)
  Dealing With Spam (Mike Adams)
  'Special B' malt ((Matthew J. Harper))
  Barleywine/Head Space  ("Darrin Bruce")
  Re: mash tun screens  (Spencer W Thomas)

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: shawn at aob.org (Shawn Steele)
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 96 13:16:36 MDT
Subject: Mailer Problems

A mailer problem on our end may have caused some erratic behavior in the HBD. 
If you are missing issues, please e-mail homebrew-digest-request@ aob.org 
and say: 
 
get n2187 
get n2188 
end 
 
Hoppy Homebrewing, 
Shawn 
Digest Janitor 

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From: eric fouch <S=eric_fouch%S=fouch%G=eric%DDA=ID=STC021+pefouch%Steelcase-Inc at mcimail.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 96 14:36 EST
Subject: Emergency replacement for campde

 
Date: Monday, 16 September 1996 3:31pm ET 
To: STC012.HONLY at STC010.SNADS 
From: Eric.Fouch at STC001 
Subject: Emergency replacement for campden tablets. 
In-Reply-To: Wild yeast infections 
 
Has anybody ever tried substituting Vagisil (Tm) or Mycelex 7 (Tm) (no 
affiliation, just a would-be customer) for metabisulfite in a pinch (or for 
higher pH applications, like a beer wort) to control wild yeast activity? 
 
E-man 
"I'm probably just too curious for my own good" 
 
 

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From: Scott Campbell <scampbell at landstroms.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 12:13:12 -0600
Subject: long fermentation

I racked an ale of mine to secondary 5 weeks ago and it is still 
fermenting. It dropped from 1.02 to 1.012 in the last 2 weeks, but 
is still bubbling away. I used Tames Valley Wyeast (Im not sure of the #). 
Does anyone have any idea why this is taking so long. Thanks. 
 
SEC 
 

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From: "Rad Equipment" <rad_equipment at rad-mac1.ucsf.edu>
Date: 16 Sep 1996 08:18:30 U
Subject: CA State Homebrew Comp

Subject:  CA State Homebrew Comp                Time:8:05 AM     = 
Date:9/16/96 
 
The San Andreas Malts are pleased to announce that they will once again = 
be sponsoring the 1996 California State Homebrew Competition which will = 
be held on Saturday, November 16th, 1996. This is the eighteenth year the = 
event will be held. 
 
Entry Deadline: October 26, 1996 
 
This competition is open to California homebrew clubs and amateur 1996 = 
First Place competition winners of California competitions who reside in = 
California. 
 
95 California homebrew clubs have already been sent information packets = 
by US Mail. 
 
For more information check with your club, visit the web site of the San = 
Andreas Malts (http://home.earthlink.net/~bstender/malts/), or contact = 
me. 
 
RW... 
 
 
Russ Wigglesworth (INTERNET: Rad_Equipment at radmac1.ucsf.edu - CI$: = 
72300,61) 
UCSF Dept. of Radiology, San Francisco, CA (415) 476-3668 / Home (707) = 
769-0425 
 
- ------------------------------ 

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From: Don Trotter <dtrotter at imtn.tpd.dsccc.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 16:25:01 -0500
Subject: Re: Vienna & Munich/Resberry gravity

 
Tim Martin asks about 100% Vienna/Munich beers.  You would benefit from 
learning to read a malt analysis.  There are some really good articles, 
I have referred to before, in the 1995 Special issue of Zymurgy.  There 
is also an article on Malt.  If my memory serves me correctly, Vienna 
still has some diastatic power, while Munich is low or nil, however, I 
don't use only Vienna or Munich for the reason you stated, and also a 
second reason.  Using those malts solely will result in a new style of 
beer, or one that I haven't yet found a profile for. 
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
Bob Tisdale asks about gravity of rasberries.  Wow, this is unaswerable 
in it's present form.  How much rasberries did you add to what medium 
and what was your method of extraction, just to ask a couple 
questions.  It seems to me that just adding them whole to the secondary 
or primary would be the hardest way of figuring extraction.  It would 
depend on how much sugar was actually present in the berries, etc.  If 
you use a process, as I had, you could then use your hydrometer to 
measure the extraction.  See HBD 2181 and 2182 for details. 
 
don 

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From: Scott Dornseif <SDORNSE at WPO.IT.LUC.EDU>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 13:51:48 -0500
Subject: Yeast Combo

Hello, I will be brewing a dry stout this weekend and wanted to combine 
effects of two different yeasts WYEASTs' British Ale, and their Irish 
Ale.  My only concern is, will I end Up with a Carboy bomb if I do this? 
 
Thank you 
Scott Dornseif 
CopyRight  1996 Al Korzonis 

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From: cburns at spider.lloyd.com (Charley)
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 22:14:07 GMT
Subject: Who needs 'em? or stupid brewer tricks...

Take a break, relax and enjoy some silly writing of my brewing experiences over
the first 12 months
of my brewing experience (same as the last 12 months, as I just started this 
hobby less than a year
ago). 
 
http://www.el-dorado.ca.us/~cburns 
 
If you have nothing else to do and would like a short diversion (Very short) 
read the following:
 
Brew Notes, who needs 'em.... 
 
Lawn Mower Bier's, who needs 'em... 
 
Carboy Handles, who needs 'em... 
 
I can't believe I have time to do this writing in my life. 
 
Charley 
 

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From: korz at pubs.ih.lucent.com
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 96 18:03:15 CDT
Subject: knifing and channeling

Jim writes: 
> I suspect, that channeling is more severe (in stuck sparges) 
>in beds that are uncut.  Since many breweries use a process of "cutting" 
>the grainbed, it seems somewhat logical that it aids in the lautering 
>process in someway.  It would be counter productive if it increased 
>channeling.  Just an opinion mind.  I'll wait for the study. 
 
A lot of breweries do run rakes during the mash.  Also, I visited 7 or 8 
breweries in the UK and asked each one of them.  What the brewmasters 
said was that they never run the rakes during the sparge, only running 
them to expel the spent grains (and maybe just after putting in the mash 
to smooth the level of the grain bed out?).  If you look in The Biotechnology 
of Malting and Brewing by J.S.Hough (I have posted about this before, so 
you can search for it), you will see that Hough notes that running the 
rakes is primarily a German practice and is used because the bouyancy of 
the grain is lost during the decoctions (infusion mashed grains are far 
more bouyant than decoction mashed grains).  On the other hand, I know 
that Chicago Brewing Company infusion mashes but they run their rakes 
during the sparge (5 min out of every 30, I believe, except for the 
wheat which is too gummy to stop the rakes (they won't restart)).  Note 
also that they are using a mash/lauter tun of German design. 
 
What I was refering to as a "concensus" was a long, drawn-out discussion 
which ended with Charlie Scandrett (in HBD #1984) quoting my post (in which 
I suggest (in an attempt to draw closure to a long battle) that if the 
stirring were constant, raking would reduce channeling and occasional 
raking would increase it) and (in my mind) resolving the issue as best 
as we could do without exprerimentation.  I respect Charlie's knowledge 
very much and this is perhaps I recall it as a concensus. 
 
If you go to this URL: 
 
http://nemesis.engin.umich.edu:8080/Beer/Threads/Threads/thread.841953869.html 
 
you will find all the discussions about channeling in 1996 HBDs PRIOR to 
this most recent thread. 
 
I have never ever, in well over 100 all-grain batches, had a set mash 
(aka stuck sparge -- I did have a slow sparge (3hrs) on a 43% rye batch, 
but that's a different story), have never knifed or raked my grain bed and 
have gotten between 28 and 31 pts/lb/gal on virtually all my batches. 
The several times I did disturb the grain bed was because I over-eagerly 
dumped the recirculation runnings back into the top of the grain bed. 
Frankly, I wish I had a few set mashes so I could learn what the heck it 
is that causes them.  I suspect too fine a crush, using high-beta-glucan or 
high-protein grains without the corresponding rests, too cold a grain bed 
or not enough difference between the top of the mash and the top of the level 
of the runnings in the kettle.  Perhaps I'll have to try a couple of these 
things and see if I can get that EasyMasher(tm) to stick!  I also said that 
I'm going to test and see if I have channeling in my grain bed or not. 
 
Guy writes (regarding my measuring the SG before and after raking method 
of determining if there is channeling or not): 
 
>I really don't know if this is going to tell you about extraction, or about 
>flow.  Al, how about taking an exact volume when you do this, and timing it, 
>assuming open your valve the same each time.  Significantly different time 
>per unit volume will tell you about channeling, even if the OG's are not 
>different.  I think channeling is first a flow issue, which affects 
>extraction.  If you try time per unit volume, you directly measure the 
>channeling effect.  The gravity issue is a reflection of this, as "faster 
>flow extracts less stuff". 
 
Let me explain my thinking: I believe that if there is channeling, there 
will be pockets of mash in which there are stagnant or almost stagnant 
runnings.  Let's say you draw off a quart of runnings, halfway through the 
laeuter and they are 1.020. Then you stop the runnings, stir, recirculate, 
take another quart sample and measure the SG.  If they are 1.020, then  you 
didn't have channeling.  If they are 1.022, then you disturbed some stagnant 
areas (with their higher extract) and the "rivers" of sparge water flowing 
through the channels were traveling around them.  Does that make more 
sense?  I think my basis in the initial explanation may have been unclear. 
 
What do we do if we do find that we are having a lot of channeling?  Well, 
if we're talking about 2 points difference, I would simply sparge a little 
slower.  The sugar in the areas of higher concentration will have more 
opportunity to diffuse into the areas of lower concentration.  If the 
difference is like 5+ points, then I would assess my lauter tun design 
and if I was unwilling to change that, I would probably make a habit of 
stopping/stirring/recirculating/restarting two or three times during the 
laeuter. 
 
Al. 
 
Al Korzonas 
Palos Hills, IL 

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From: Terry <brew at buffnet.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 17:00:50 GMT
Subject: jet burner cajun cooker

Hi All 
 
I have a jet style burner cajun cooker and would like to put a ring style 
burner on it, I know I will lose some BTU's but who need 200,000 anyway. 
What I need to know is where I can find ring type burners, can I just use 
the ones you see on the side of gas grills all the time or do I need 
something more heavy duty.  Any input would be appreciated. 
Thanks 
Terry 
Alive and Brewing in Buffalo,NY 
www.dnci.com/brewfellow 
Go Bills ! 
 

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From: sabene at fcg.net (Scott Abene)
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 16:07:44 -0600
Subject: Thames Valley Wyeast

I recently tried this yeast (Thames Valley Wyeast) and found that although 
I had a good starter and a good amount of air in the chilled wort, initial 
fermentation to my 6 gallon batch seemed sluggish to kick in. 
 
I didn't get a good hearty bubbling in the air-lock for about 26 hours... I 
can't remember the last time a I had a fermentation that didn't start 
within 4-6 hours. 
 
Anybody out there tried this yeast??? Experiences? Problems??? 
 
- -Scott 
 
 

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From: korz at pubs.ih.lucent.com
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 96 18:42:52 CDT
Subject: changing yeast at priming time/more head retention and body

Dave writes: 
>I recommend as I did the other day on a similar mead question, to prepare a 
>small potion of the barley wine with the fresh yeast and see if it will 
ferment
>(probably it won't based on your experience). If so, use this krausen-style to
>innoculate other bottles.  If no fermentation ensues, try using a champagne 
>yeast like Prisse de Mousse now called, by Red Star "Champagne yeast" I think,
>to carbonate your wine as the beer yeast may not be able to get much above 
8-10
>% in most cases. But use the above krausening procedure. Still problems? then 
>try ading a little nutrient and see if that helps. 
 
I would also like to add that it would be a good idea to first try this on 
a small portion of the beer.  If your primary yeast was (basically) killed 
by the alcohol, you may still have quite a bit of residual sugar in the 
beer and adding a more alcohol-tolerant yeast would result in gushers. 
Judging from your OG and FG, I don't think this would be a problem in your 
case. 
 
Adding more of the same yeast you fermented with is not as foolish an idea 
as it may initially sound.  Belgian brewers do this regularly with their 
strong ales (well, that's most Belgian ales, actually).  The basis for this 
is that the fermentation yeast can be pretty pooped out after all that 
fermentation and swimming in alcohol.  I had a 9%ABV Barleywine that took 
six months to get a decent carbonation (I did not add yeast at bottling 
time), but it was very harsh all those months too.  Barleywines need to 
age for mellowing, not just conditioning. 
 
*** 
Dave writes: 
>Randi you can increase your beer's body by increasing the mashing temperature.
>If you are using highly converted malts, skip the lower T holds and go 
directly
>to 155-158F in a single infusion mash. Otherwise, do the 122F and 135F holds 
to
>increase the soluble proteins and reduce gums, etc. and get a better head and 
>mouthfeel, but shorten them up from your current practice. 
 
Oh, oh... I hear you all sigh...  Dave and Al discussing mash temps.  Before 
we begin, Dave, if you disagree with me, let's take this off-line much 
earlier than last time, okay? 
 
To get better head and more body, eliminate the 122F rest and do your protein 
rest (if you must) at 135-140F.  The 122F rest is where peptidase is most 
active (any higher and it begins to denature much faster).  Peptidase cuts 
big proteins into amino acids.  In the 135 to 140F range, peptidase denatures 
quickly and protease (actually, I think it's a number of proteases) cuts big 
proteins down into medium-sized proteins.  It's these medium-sized proteins 
that give you head retention and (according to a discussion with George Fix 
from about 1989 that I posted to HBD at least once) most of the body 
(more than the dextrins, which are a significant factor too).  If you allow 
peptidase to turn all your proteins into amino acids, your beer will be 
lacking in body and head retention. 
 
Q: Why does virtually every all-grain recipe contain a 122F rest? 
 
A: Habit and a lack of understanding.  In an all-malt beer, you will 
have more than enough amino acids for yeast nutrition without a 122F 
rest.  If you do happen to get your hands on a sack of malt that the 
brewers of Pilsner Urquell use, you may want to consider adding a 122F 
rest and also you may want to do a triple decoction, but with modern, 
well-modified malts, the 122F is absolutely unnecessary. 
 
Al. 
 
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL 
korzonas at lucent.com 

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From: ajdel at interramp.com (A. J. deLange)
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 00:28:41 -0500
Subject: Error/Oxygen/Magnesium

Ken Schwarz asks for a translation of my tag. Happy to oblige: "Never in 
doubt [though] frequently in error." The manager of a large government 
project I once worked on made this the motto of his division going so far 
as to have baseball caps made up using this as the basis for a logo showing 
interlocked arrows pointing simultaneously up and down. He claimed it was 
the motto of the medical profession (MD's please don't take offense) but I 
really have no idea where he got it. I will leave it to you, gentle 
readers, to decide whether it is a suitable tag for the Net. 
 
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 
 
Duff Hickman asked about what would happen if a beer were pressurized with 
O2 during the fermentation. The yeast would resume the growth phase with 
the production of growth phase metabolic products (lots of esters and 
acids) which would, in most cases, spoil the beer. To get an idea about 
this repeatedly oxygenate/aerate a starter which you are growing. By 
repeatedly I mean every couple of hours. After a day or so of this 
treatment you should have a lot of yeast. Now decant and taste some of the 
supernatant. Class dismissed. 
 
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 
 
Mark Preston asked about magnesium levels in beer. It reportedly takes 
about 120 mg/L to send you to the dunny with beers ranging from 60 - 200 
mg/l in Britain and 75 - 240 mg/L in German beers. Some natural brewing 
waters contain fair amounts of magnesium (Burton, Edinburgh,Vienna all in 
the 60's) and some do not (Plzen - 2 mg/L) and the malt supplies some. 
Brewers often use Epsom salts to augment the sulfate content of their beer 
but usually avoid going over 30 ppm because of the sour bitterness 
associated with Mg above this level. The symptoms described sound more like 
a reaction to yeast or the flu. 
 
A.J. deLange   Numquam in dubio, saepe in errore! 
ajdel at interramp.com 
 
 

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From: "Kieran O'Connor" <koconnor at syr.edu>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 21:44:32 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Syracuse, NY Competition, Nov 23

Hi all 
 
I'd like to announce the Salt City Brew Club's 11th annual competition. 
The deadline for entries is Nov 8, competition is Nov 23. 
 
We are accepting all styles of beer, mead and cider. Also please note the 
following additional styles (or modifications) 
 
1) Oatmeal stout is a style 
2) Classic American Pilsner is a style 
2) Robust and Brown porter and two separate styles 
 
Further, we will accept any color, type or size of bottle. We will also 
accept carbonators (they will be returned). **Only two bottles per entry** 
 
Jugding sheets are available the day of the competition if you pick them 
up, or you will receive them in one week. 
 
Note: Best of show prize is a $200 gift certificate for a homebrew shop 
(who will mail order). 
 
Last year we had 270 entries, we should top 300 this year. We hope you'll 
enter. If you'd like a packet, email me with the subject line "Packet 
Request" and I'll send one your way.  If you entered last year, one is 
already on the way. 
 
FInally, we are looking for judges: Syracuse is in the heart of NY State. 
260 miles from NYC, 150 miles from Buffalo or Albany. Please contact me if 
you are interested in judging. Beds for judges available. 
 
Questions: email me, or call (315) 449-2844, eves. 
 
Kieran 
 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
Kieran O'Connor 
 
koconnor at syr.edu 
Syracuse, N.Y. USA 
 
                  In vino veritas; in cervesio felicitas. 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
 
 
 

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From: "Keith Royster" <keith.royster at ponyexpress.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 22:49:51 +0500
Subject: Re: To RIMS or to not...? / SPAM the SPAMMERS

Daryl asks about the pros & cons of RIMS (you knew I'd respond, 
didn'tcha?): 
 
> I'm finally going to move on up to full grain brews and am starting 
> to design my system.  <snip>  One decision is whether or not to 
> include a RIMS in my brewery?  I have seen and read of the 
> advantages of the system <snip> but haven't run across the 
> disadvantages (there must be a couple) other than cost and building 
> time. 
 
Well, I try to honestly address both the pros and the cons in my RIMS 
web page, although I will admit that it is hard to be completely 
unbiased.  The only real disadvantage that I could come up with is 
cost, although I do try to address a few other minor ones too, such 
as HSA, astringency, space, electrical risks, etc. You can read the 
details at the address below, and I would appreciate feedback from 
anyone that has anything to add.  I want this page to be as realistic 
and informative as possible. 
 
- ---------------------------- 
 
On non-beer related note (I'll keep it short), I'm toying with the 
idea of writing a web page & program (CGI) combo that can be used to 
spam the spammers.  Basically, what I'm thinking of is a web page 
that you can enter the spammer's email address in the form and with 
the press of a button automatically subscribe them to every known 
email discussion group on the 'net (or at least a bunch!).  This may 
be a crazy knee-jerk reaction on my part to recent spams in the HBD, 
so I'm soliciting rational feedback as to whether this is a do-able 
idea or not. Please email me with your concerns and comments. 
Thanks! 
 
Keith Royster - Mooresville, North Carolina 
"Where if the kudzu don't gitcha, the Baptists will!" 
 
mailto:keith.royster at ponyexpress.com 
http://dezines.com/ at your.service - at your.service 
http://dezines.com/ at your.service/cbm -Carolina BrewMasters 
http://dezines.com/ at your.service/RIMS -My RIMS page, rated COOL! by the Brewery

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From: jdecarlo at juno.com (John A DeCarlo)
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 20:42:56 EDT
Subject: Re: Copper in Beer

I know I was very concerned about this, as cooking copper is tin-lined to 
prevent copper poisoning.  (Yes, I know it is safe for some types of 
foods, but not for your sauce pans.) 
 
Anyway, someone pointed me to an article that cited a study that showed 
the amounts of copper *post-fermentation* to be negligible.  The 
prevailing theory at the time was that the yeast used the copper or at 
least absorbed it. 
 
I am too lazy/busy to find the Zymurgy or HBD or whatever article from 
five or six years ago, but maybe someone else can cite it or the original 
research. 
 
John DeCarlo, jdecarlo at juno.com, Arlington, VA 

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From: "Paul Kensler" <Paul.Kensler at ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 22:38:34 +0000
Subject: Boil kettle/Mash tun

Scott, 
 
>> I use a 10 gallon Gott, too, and I always (always, unless its just a 
>> simple 5-gallon single infusion recipe) do my mashing in my boil 
>> kettle, then transfer to the Gott for lautering and sparging.  That 
>> way, you can measure your current temperatures exactly, and don't 
>> have to worry about calculating temperatures.  Just be careful you 
>> don't overshoot your target temperatures...  When it comes time to 
>> transfer, I just use one of those 1 gallon "malt buckets", and it 
>> goes fairly quickly without too much aeration. 
 
>This is coming from a malt extract brewer who is trying to figure out 
>how to move to all-grain.  When you transfer from your boil kettle to 
>your Gott cooler, is HSA really a concern?  Aren't you going to lauter 
>out your wort, and then re-boil and add hops?  Or are hops added 
>already in your boil kettle? 
 
Sorry to be so misleading.  What I should have said, was:  I always 
do my mashing in my combination mash tun / boiling kettle (I use the 
same 10-gallon kettle for mashing and boiling).  You were 
on the right track:  first, I mash in the kettle, then transfer to 
the Gott for lautering.  While it sits and settles for a few minutes, 
I clean the mash tun out, and then use it to collect the sparge 
runoff.  Once the sparge is done, I put it on the burner, and the 
rest of the brew looks like the extract brews you've been doing, 
boiling and adding hops as called for.  I don't think HSA is a 
problem, since I "gently" scoop the mash up with a bucket and pour it 
into the cooler/lauter tun.  I avoid heavy splashing, but I don't 
treat it like an explosive either...  Most importantly, I've never 
detected stale/oxidized flavors in my beer. 
 
Paul 

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From: Andy Walsh <awalsh at crl.com.au>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 14:15:19 +1100
Subject: professionals in amateur homebrew competitions

The annual Ausbeer nationwide homebrew competition is almost on us over 
here again. 
 
It has come to my attention that several people who are professional 
brewers are entering this competition. Of course it is up to the 
organisers who is eligible to enter, but I wondered what the HBD 
concensus is on the spirit of this practice. Are professionals excluded 
from the AHA (or other) competitions? Who constitutes a professional? Is 
it OK for professionals using "amateur" gear to enter? What is "amateur" 
gear? Many "amateurs" have very sophisticated pilot plants. Should they 
be ineligible? Is a professional one who has professional 
qualifications, or must they be actively brewing in a 
microbrewery/brewpub? 
 
Or should it be left to the individual's own conscience? 
Why would a professional want to enter an amateur competition anyway? It 
seems they'd have everything to lose and nothing to gain. They'd be 
expected to win, so what happens if they lose? Do they blame the judges, 
or themselves? 
 
I feel this should be publically discussed. 
 
- -- 
Andrew Walsh   CHAD Research Laboratories 
Phone (61 2) 212 6333  5/57 Foveaux Street 
Fax   (61 2) 212 1336  Surry Hills. NSW. 2010 
email awalsh at crl.com.au  Australia. 
 

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From: "Meisner Wallie MSM GRPP US" <wallie.meisner at usgr.MHS.CIBA.COM>
Date: 17 Sep 1996 11:45:48 +0000
Subject: Reviews we can taste -ATTENTION BEER JUDGES

 
======================================================================= 
As I read other people's reviews of various brews, I think I know what 
tastes and flavors they're describing, but since I've never participated in 
a beer judging program (as a judge) I can't be sure. How about we get two or 
three certified beer judges to post their impressions(?) of some beers that 
we can all buy locally (Sam's ale, lager, Pete's,...others?). That way, I 
can taste while I read and really understand what some of these terms mean. 
Any volunteers? any others interested in these results?If this has been 
done, and maybe posted on somebody's web site (which would be an excellent 
place for it) please clue me in as to where I can find it. 
 
BTW, is anyone else less than impressed with Pete's latest...Wicked Amber 
Ale? To my pallet, it tastes like a Milwaukee's best (a beer that I used to 
drink great quantities of before I got used to the dollar-a-bottle stuff and 
my own homebrew). 
 
 -Wallie Meisner 
Greensboro, NC 
 
DONT MISS Pat Babcock's Homebrew Fleamarket 
(http://oeonline.com/~  pbabcock/). Or e-mail a "Send List" in the subject 
line to Pbabcock at oeonline.com 
===================================================================== 
 
 

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From: Russ Brodeur <r-brodeur at ds.mc.ti.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 08:39:10 -0400
Subject: Re: vienna & munich malts

Tim Martin (HBD #2188) asks about the diastatic power of vienna & munich 
malts:  Basically, you should avoid domestic (e.g. Breiss) "vienna" and 
"munich" malts.  They do not have enough enzyme concentration (or 
diastatic power [DP]) to convert themselves, and must be mashed with a 
base malt.  Plus, they are made from inferior 6-row barley.  However, 
the German malts Dr. Fix recommends do indeed have enough DP to convert 
themselves, as do the Belgian malts as well.  I have brewed 100% Munich 
malt beers from both Belgian (DeWolfe Cosyns) and German (Ireks) malts 
without any difficulty.  They also have a much better, IMO, malt flavor 
than the domestic varieties. 
 
TTFN 
Russ Brodeur 
Franklin, MA 

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From: Mike Adams <mike at telesph.com>
Date: Fri, 04 Jan 1980 18:52:55 -0500
Subject: Dealing With Spam

Since spammers spam to save money (email is cheap), the best way to deal 
with them is to make them spend money. You can do this by calling any listed 
800 numbers several times (800 service isn't cheap, no matter what the phone 
co. says) and requesting lots of literature/brochures/demo programs/spec 
sheets, etc. Ask for anything. You don't even need to give them a real 
address, or even a real email address. Just make sure they know you're 
responding because of their email. You can give them the address of another 
spam company (leaving of the other company's name, of course)! I've been 
responding 5-6 times to everything that lists an 800 number, and I also 
respond to the "email only" requests with mis-directed literature requests. 
 
Spam will continue until it becomes too expensive. Marketers know that they 
can only win a small portion of any market using email, so they will never 
refuse to send out collateral to a caller. In fact, even if they know this 
is happening they can't afford not to send it, you might be a legitimate 
customer. It's a marvelous trap, one of those "damned if you do, damned if 
you don't" situations. 
 
Eventually, if enough netizens request junk, the marketers will turn away 
from email because it doesn't return enough business to make it profitable. 
Every piece of junk they send costs them money for production, warehousing, 
mailing, and administration. Not to mention the increased growth in their 
contact databases. When you give them a bogus address, you cost them money 
for the little lines on the envelope that say "address correction required" 
or "return postage guaranteed." And if those lines aren't there, they still 
have costs involving the removal of those bad addresses from their databases. 
 
Making them pay is the only way to stop spammers. 
 
Mike. 
___________________________________________________________________________ 
Mike Adams            mike at telesph.com           Telesphere Corporation 
Manager,              trent at crystalwind.com 
Tech. Documentation   (212) 487-2767             http://www.telesph.com 
 

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From: matth at bedford.progress.com (Matthew J. Harper)
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 96 08:54:44 EDT
Subject: 'Special B' malt

I cast this upon the collective praying for a positive response... 
 
As part of a present I was given a mess of various types of grains and hops 
and sheet of what everything is. 
 
Well,  The sheet has been misplaced/thrown away/kid ate it/etc etc and I have 
one thing I am unsure about. 
 
A 3lb bag of malt (uncrushed) marked 'Special B'.  It's a pretty dark malt. 
I dunno what it is and haven't found any recipes that call specifically for it 
so I
figure it must have another name it goes by. 
 
I'd love to make a batch with it, but I'd like to have a clue what to expect 
when
it's done!-) 
 
If you can tell me what it is I'd be ever so grateful! 
 
 
Thanks! 
 
- -Matth 
 
- -- 
Matthew J. Harper      |  General Engineering Manager  | {disclaimer.i} 
Progress Software Corp.|                               |    DoD #1149 
matth at progress.com     |          Zymurgist            |  Ahhhhh, Bock! 
       Sometimes you're the windshield - Sometimes you're the bug 
 Diplomacy is the art of saying "nice doggy" until you can find a rock. 

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From: "Darrin Bruce" <dbruce at chi.osu.edu>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 96 8:39:56 -24000
Subject: Barleywine/Head Space 

I am a new HDB member (3 weeks) and have my first question.  I have brewed my 
first barleywine from a recipe a friend gave me.  This recipe is for 2 
gallons.  My OG was slightly over 1.10.  It has been fermenting for 1 week in 
my 5 gallon carboy with about a 3" foam head covering the entire surface and 
my airlock bubbling about every 1 second.  In speaking with a fellow newbie 
homebrewer, he asked me if I was not worried about head space with only 2 
gallons in a 5 gallon glass carboy.  Should I be worried about this?  Should 
I purchase a 2.3 gallon carboy I found at a local homebrew shop and rack to 
that after the initial fermentation completes?   
 
I searched some threads on barleywine from past HDB posts and found nothing 
concerning head space.  Sorry if this is a re-hashed thread from days gone 
by!   
 
I used WYEAST Scottish Ale yeast on a recommendation from a local homebrew 
store (the recipe just said ale yeast).  I am currently stepping up the same 
Scottish yeast in anticipation of a problem with fermentation.  My question 
is at what gravity should the fermentation be complete vs needing to re-pitch 
another large volume of yeast?  The recipe was 5 lbs of pale extract to make 
2 gallons and my OG was 1.101. 
 
Private e-mails are fine.  Thanks! 
 
Darrin Bruce 
Columbus, Ohio 
DBruce at chi.osu.edu 

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From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 10:30:44 -0400
Subject: Re: mash tun screens 

>>>>> "Marty" == Marty Purselley <brewer at flash.net> writes: 
    Marty> I want a screen that will stand up to a 
    Marty> heavy grain bill.  Has anyone tried the PICO screen? 
 
 
The pico-Brewing Systems screen will hold a full kettle of grain 
(about 45 lbs max).  This from personal experience.  (Of course, 
sparging that much grain is a real pain!) 
 
=Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI        (spencer at umich.edu) 

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