---

   FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
        Shawn Steele, Digest Janitor
        Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!

Contents:
  RE: Pro's homebrewing ((George De Piro))
  Longshot (Rob Reed)
  dextrins/lager yeast?/Brewer's Gold/bad beer/sucking air/copper ((Algis R Korzonas))
  Some new stuff (Mike Demers)
  HBD buyers co-operative (Ian Smith)
  Northdown hops/dispensing pressure/sucrose/late oxygen additions (korz at pubs.ih.lucent.com)
  Maltmill (Ian Smith)
  Longshot (Kit Anderson)
  Re: Northdown hops (RUSt1d?)
  HBRCP upgrade (RUSt1d?)
  sparge techinques (James Murphy)
  Rocky MT Homebrew Shootout (MOREYEEL at aol.com)
  protein rest ((BAYEROSPACE))
  Re: Emergency replacement for campden tablets ("Aaron Herrick")
  professionals in amateur homebrew competitions ((Charles Burns))
  Blowoff tube blues (Brian S Kuhl)
  "Authentic" pils schedule ("John M. Posing")
  Al Korzonas' comments re: channelling/setmash. (Jim Cave)
  Thames Valley, again... ("Paul A. Hausman")
  Vienna, Munich and Victory/Special B/headspace (korz at pubs.ih.lucent.com)
  Copper ((A. J. deLange))
  BEER COMPETITION ORGANIZER SYSTEM ("Houseman, David L TR")

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com (George De Piro)
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 13:43:36 -0700
Subject: RE: Pro's homebrewing

     Andy Walsh wonders if pro brewers should be allowed to compete in 
     homebrew competitions.  He also wonders about the definition of a 
     "pro."  Perhaps it's better to ask what defines a "homebrewer." 
 
     I know that Eric Warner won the AHA Nationals Wheat beer category a 
     couple of years back.  Was that fair?  He used an open aluminum 
     fermenter.  He learned his stuff at Weihenstephan.  He's a pro (makes 
     money making beer).  If he brewed his winner at home, with equipment 
     used only at home, I'd say he's a homebrewer, and that makes it fair. 
 
     We all have access to a lot of info about the chemistry and techniques 
     of brewing.  It's up to us if we seek it out and utilize it to make 
     the best possible beer. 
 
     Just my opinion. 
 
     But should people using "Brew on premises" be allowed to enter 
     homebrew comps? 
 
     Have Fun! 
 
     George De Piro 

Return to table of contents


From: Rob Reed <rhreed at icdc.delcoelect.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 13:29:42 -0400 (CDT)
Subject: Longshot

Wayne Holder writes: 
 
> I've decided that $5 is a good deal for 1/2 LB of hops and a T-shirt, 
> but I don't think it warrants wasting three bottles of my brew.  Next 
> year, I'm sending either three bottle of urine, or three bottles of 
> Boston Lager (recapped of course).  I'm not sure which would score 
> higher. 
 
 Is the entry fee $5?  There is also shipping cost, unless you can drop 
 them off personally.  It is probably a good public relations campaign 
 for Boston Brewing Co., no?  Wholesale cost of domestic hops is about 
 $5-7/lb. and certainly EKGs (is that what they're sending out?) are 
 a little more, *but* BBC is buying in huge volume.  Plus their 
 T-shirts' are good advertising. 
 
 So what does it cost to develop a new beer from a recipe prespective? 
 Is BBC actually saving R&D cost by paying out cash to Longshot 
 winners? 
 
 Cheers, 
 
 Rob Reed 

Return to table of contents


From: korzonas at lucent.com (Algis R Korzonas)
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 96 13:22:31 CDT
Subject: dextrins/lager yeast?/Brewer's Gold/bad beer/sucking air/copper

Dave writes: 
>It may also be that the highly attenuative lager yeasties are going after 
>the higher sugars and dextrins which are unfermentable in the presence of 
>maltose.. 
 
Dextrins are unfermentable by brewer's yeast whether maltose is present or not.
 
*** 
Dave also writes: 
>You would like to have your beer at about 1.050 its OG to start with, if you 
>like a stronger beer  increase both the extract ( say to 1.060) and hops 
>accordingly.  Use a lager yeast. 
 
Why a lager yeast unless you want to make a lager?  This sounds like you 
should use lager yeast if you want to make a stronger beer (which is 
incorrect), doesn't it? 
 
>add 50 grams of Brewers gold   a Bittering hop 
 
Don't tell Pete Slossberg... he uses Brewers Gold for aroma in Pete's 
Wicked Ale. 
 
*** 
Radical Brewer asks how to repair his bad, but drinkable beer. 
 
I suggest making another batch which is too thick and overcarbonated and 
then mixing the two at serving time. 
 
*** 
Mike writes: 
>Second,  I have brewed probably 20 or so batches with an EM and 
>I too get that air sucking into the hose.  I really don't think 
>it's anything to worry about, I let the air suck in all it wants 
>and I never have any off-flavors in my beer (at least not ones 
>that could be associated with HSA).  I've always been of the opinion 
>that it really doesn't matter if the sweet liquor gets aerated during 
>the sparge because you boil off all of the oxygen anyway.  I'm not sure 
>if this theory is correct or not, but like I said, I have no problems 
>with HSA as far as I can tell. 
 
I fixed the problem with my EM by filing the nozzle (a lot) till it was 
cylindrical (rather than tapering as it is originally).  Then I slipped 
the 5/16" ID tubing over the nozzle, wrapped two turns of duct tape 
over the tubing and then cranked down a SS hose clamp over the duct 
tape.  The purpose of the tape is to prevent the hose from squishing 
through the drive holes in the hose clamp when the tun heats up.  Just 
for security, I used some string to tie the hose clamp up behind the 
valve handle to prevent this whole thing from slipping off at some 
inappropriate time.  Involved, but works for me. 
 
>Another data point:  When I brew over my buddy's house we let the sweet 
>liquor fall about 3 or 4 feet into the kettle.  This certainly results 
>in pretty well aerated sweet liquor and again, no problems. 
 
I recommend you try to avoid aerating the sweet wort.  I'll bet that if 
you were to compare the same recipe done with and without aeration, you 
will notice the difference.  I was taught a lot of bad techniques early 
in my brewing and thought my beer tasted fine.  It wasn't until I started 
fixing them one by one, that my beer began to improve and approach 
the quality of high-quality commercial beers. 
 
*** 
Val writes: 
>in "Brewing Lager Beer", in the section on Cleaning and Sterilizing, 
>Greg Noonan says, "Brew Kettles of Copper, Stainless Steel or Aluminum: 
>Articles of this construction are the only ones used in brewing upon 
>which an abrasive should be used. In fact, they benefit from its employ- 
>ment. The abrasives not only scour away calcified deposits but pitting 
>and etching of the kettle surface improves heat transfer and protein 
>coagulation during wort boiling." 
 
If you are just removing calcium deposits, then fine, but if you are 
also removing the oxide coating from the Stainless Steel or Aluminum, 
you can get some strong metallic flavours in your beer till the oxide 
layer re-forms.  I use a ScotchBrite(tm) pad that is made specifically 
for SilverStone(tm).  It is plastic and does not scratch the oxide 
layer off. 
 
*** 
Andy writes: 
>Cu ions play a major role in beer flavour stability. 
>The Cu ions are thought to catalyse (comparatively inactive) 
>molecular oxygen into more reactive forms such as hydrogen 
>peroxide (H2O2). In the boil this may lead to (the much 
>feared by homebrewers!) HSA, with associated husky/astringent 
>flavours (as reported by Narziss) even in fresh beer. 
>Such beer will also have poor flavour stability. 
 
What's your source on this information?  I am extremely skeptical. 
 
>I presume that "dirty" copper (copper oxide) is more soluble in 
>wort than clean copper, hence would promote greater oxidation. 
>Any copper equipment that comes in contact with wort should 
>thus be shiny before each use, or done away with altogether! 
 
Hogwa... er... I disagree.  Billions of gallons of beer has been 
made in copper kettles and mash tuns.  I've been using a copper 
wort chiller for more than 150 batches of beer and it keeps going 
in sort-of tarnished and comes out a little less tarnished (not 
shiny bright, however).  Yeast consume copper, I know that... how 
much, I'm not sure, but I've never had a problem with any of my 
beers that can be attributed to copper. 
 
 
Al. 
 
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL 
korzonas at lucent.com 

Return to table of contents


From: Mike Demers <mdemers at ctron.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 14:55:48 -0400
Subject: Some new stuff

Tried some new things this past week and I thought 
I'd share.. 
 
First, I tried a new thing with my yeast starter. 
I found myself with only lemon-scented bleach at 
my girlfriend's apartment but I needed to do a 
starter.  I really didn't want to sanitize my 
3 liter wine jug with the lemon bleach because I 
thought I remembered reading something about that 
not being a good idea.  So, I just boiled up my 
starter wort in a pot, chilled in the sink, and 
pitched right into the pot.  How simple.  I wish 
I would have thought of this before.  Why screw 
around with bleach if you don't need to??? It's 
like a mini open fermenter. 
 
I also tried eliminating the use of hop bags by 
installing my EASYMASHER (tm) in my 15 gal. pot 
so I could strain the wort through the hops. 
This did not work as well as I thought it would. 
The wort would flow out pretty good for a while 
but then the EM would get clogged up pretty good 
and I had to get in there with a spoon and push 
the hops away from the screen so the flow would speed 
up.  It basically was a nightmare and I don't know 
if I'll try this again.  If I do, I'll fix the EM 
so that it's not resting on the bottom of the pot. 
This might help but I'm not sure there is much 
advantage to this method anyway... 
 
I also tried a new sparging method.  Instead of 
storing the sparge water in a bottling bucket and 
letting it slowly trickle out into the mash tun, 
I tried doing "batch sparging" by heating up about 
3 gallons of sparge water at a time and just dumping 
into a small pot resting on top of the mash.  This 
method worked great as far as I'm concerned.  The pot 
on top prevents the grain bed from getting all swished 
around and it's easy to keep the sparge water at the 
right temp because you heat it up incrementally.  I 
like it!! 
 
Mike D. 

Return to table of contents


From: Ian Smith <rela!isrs at netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 13:52:37 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: HBD buyers co-operative

I was wondering why with over 3800 members the HBD users haven't 
considered getting together to for a non-profit buying co-operative for 
home brew supplies such as grain, hops, carboys, equipment and extracts 
etc ? Surely with such a large group we could negotiate significant 
discounts with suppliers ? Any thoughts / comments ? 
 
Ian Smith 

Return to table of contents


From: korz at pubs.ih.lucent.com
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 96 15:14:16 CDT
Subject: Northdown hops/dispensing pressure/sucrose/late oxygen additions

Paul writes: 
>Northdown is 
>one of the newer general purpose British hops, working well for bittering 
>or later additions, with moderately high acid content (8.6% for my package.) 
>The closest alternatives are Target or Challenger (although they might be just
>as hard to get.) 
 
When it comes to hop varieties, nobody has a wider selection (and in 
whole hop form) than Mark Kellums at Just Hops.  The number is 217-864-4216. 
 
(No affiliation, just a satisfied customer and respectful competetor). 
 
*** 
Chris writes: 
>Alan Edwards posted a most useful CO2 
>saturation table relating temperature and keg carbonating pressure to obtain 
>a desired carbonation level. How does this relate to dispensing pressure? A 
>few months back Ken Schwartz discussed the expected pressure drop from keg to 
>mug through the various fittings, length of tubing, etc. If the carbonating 
>pressure and dispensing pressure are different, how do you keep the 
>carbonation level constant? 
 
If you set up your system right (proper length of proper diameter hose 
for a given pressure) you should be able to dispense at the same pressure 
as that with which you carbonated.  This way, the beer is always ready 
to be served and always properly carbonated.  The key is setting the 
pressure right (from Alan's great tables) and then having long-enough and 
small-enough hoses to drop all that pressure.  If you still have foam, 
try a narrower or longer hose.  I use a 6- to 8-foot length of 3/16" ID 
beer line for my beers served at 50F. 
 
*** 
>I've searched the archives and they do indicate that sucrose 
>(tablet sugar) is derived from sugar beets. 
 
In europe.  In the US it's virtually (if not all) from cane sugar.  Both 
cane and beet sugar are almost 100% sucrose (table sugar). 
 
*** 
Duff writes: 
 
>I know it's possible (I hear) for yeast to run out of oxygen before running 
>out of fermentable sugars in high gravity brews (barleywine, scotch 
>heavies, tripplebocks, meads, etc.) even if the wort is saturated with O2 
>at the time of pitching (at fermentation temps).  What would happen if one 
>waited until "primary" fermentation had slowed down to a crawl or apparent 
>end and then siphoned into a corney for further fermentation, then force 
>"oxygenated" the keg with an O2 tank instead of a CO2 tank? 
 
You would get oxidized beer.  Yeast don't "run out" of oxygen.  They 
absorb the oxygen from the wort within a few hours of pitching.  They use 
this oxygen to build cell membranes.  If there is insufficient oxygen 
at pitching time, the yeast will have weak cell membranes and therefore 
poor alcohol tolerance.  There is a relationship between oxygen needs and 
high-gravity worts/musts, but the oxygen needs to be added before any 
alcohol is created.  Adding oxygen during the violent fermentation will 
increase diacetyl production (try Samuel Smith's Nut Brown Ale).  Adding 
oxygen when the fermentation is over or almost over will only oxidize the 
alcohols into aldehydes (yuk!) and wipe out any aroma you may have gotten 
from late kettle hops. 
 
Al. 
 
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL 
korzonas at lucent.com 

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From: Ian Smith <rela!isrs at netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 14:16:04 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Maltmill

Can someone give me the specifications on the MaltMill (TM) - what length 
and diameter are the rollers ? What is the material of construction and 
what are the bearings/bushings made of ? What is the gap between the 
rollers ? Are the rollers smooth ? Are both rollers driven or just one ? 
Is the mill gear driven and if so do the gears change the speed at which 
the rollers rotate or do the gears drive both rollers simultaneously ? 
Any info would be much appreciated. 
 
Ian Smith 

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From: Kit Anderson <kit at maine.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 16:34:33 -0400
Subject: Longshot

>First, Kit complains that one judge (Noonan, no less) gave his beer a 
>     40 while the other two judges gave it a score in the low 20's. 
>     Really?  What was Noonan thinking?  As the "ranking" judge, he should 
>     have questioned the lower scores.  It is usually understood that if 
>     the judges' scores are within 6 points of each other, the judging was 
>     reasonable.  If they differ widely, some (sometimes intense) 
>     discussion should follow.  From Kit's description, it sounds like the 
>     "low" judges didn't know the style. 
> 
 
Noonan judged the beer (same batch) a month earlier, not at Sam Adams. The 
"low judges" obviously had no clue on the style or how to fill out a form. 
See Jeff Renner's letter to the AHA on JudgeNet. 
 
- --- 
 
Kit  Anderson 
<kit at maine.com> 
Bath, Maine 
The Maine Beer Page  http://www.maine.com/brew 
 

Return to table of contents


From: RUSt1d? <rust1d at li.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 16:41:19 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Northdown hops

>When it comes to hop varieties, nobody has a wider selection (and in 
>whole hop form) than Mark Kellums at Just Hops.  The number is 217-864-4216. 
> 
>(No affiliation, just a satisfied customer and respectful competetor). 
 
Nobody *had* a wider selection. Just Hops went out of business very 
recently. Boo. 
 
 
************************** 
** rust1d at li.com        ** 
** John Nicholas Varady ** <-- Now Engaged. 
** Eve Courtney Hoyt    ** 
************************** 
http://www.netaxs.com/people/vectorsys/index.html 
 

Return to table of contents


From: RUSt1d? <rust1d at li.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 16:54:13 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: HBRCP upgrade

I have just finished an upgrade to my homebrew software. Version 1.3 is 
now available on my web page. 
 
Fixes are included for Windows 95 and improvements have been made to 
several of the calculators. 
 
New features include: 
 
Force Carbonation Calculator: based on the lovely chart and formula that's 
been seen on the HBD of late. 
 
Import/Export Recipes: from either a file or the clipboard. Now users of 
HBRCP can e-mail recipes back and forth effortlessly. 
 
And it just keeps getting better. 
 
http://www.netaxs.com/~vectorsys/varady/index.html 
 
John Varady 
Boneyard Brewing Co. 
"Ale today, Gone tomorrow" 
 

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From: James Murphy <murphy at gordy.ucdavis.edu>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 14:26:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: sparge techinques

Hi, 
 
I have a question about sparging technique about which I'm hoping you 
might be able to provide some feedback. 
 
First, some background... 
A few batches ago I began experimenting with partial mashes.  I've got a 4 
gallon (which really holds 3.5 gals) stainless steel pot that I use as a 
mash tun.  For now, I've just been mashing at around 150-153 degrees for 
about an hour.  For sparging, I insert a plastic bucket with holes inside my 
bottling bucket.  I wrap a blanket around it to try to retain some heat. 
I add some foundation water and then, to avoid splashing, I scoop the mash 
from the pot with a small pitcher and gently pour it into the bucket set up. 
In a separate pot on the stove, I keep the sparge water around 170 degrees. 
 
Now for my question... 
What's the best way to sparge?  Right now, I use a measuring cup, scoop 
about a cup of water, and slowly pour this over the grains.  Then I drain 
about a cup from the bucket and pour it into the 4 gallon pot.  I keep 
repeating this for about an hour.  Obviously, this is rather tedious and I 
can't help but think that there must be a better way.  In addition, by the 
time I'm done, the temperature of the runnings have dropped to around 
125-130 degrees, and this must be hurting my efficiency.  (Right now I get 
about 25-26 p/p/g).  Any comments? 
 
Thanks. 
Jim Murphy 
Davis, CA 
jjmurphy at ucdavis.edu 
 

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From: MOREYEEL at aol.com
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 17:34:04 -0400
Subject: Rocky MT Homebrew Shootout

Hello to all I am writing to inform you of the upcoming rocky mt HOMEBREW 
Shootout 
 
Their homepage is: 
http://members.aol.com/moreyeel/beer/intro.htm 
 
hope to see you there 
 
J-Man 
Jeff Parker 
<something intresting to be posted later> 

Return to table of contents


From: M257876 at sl1001.mdc.com (BAYEROSPACE)
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 16:58 -0600
Subject: protein rest

collective homebrew conscience: 
 
george in ny wrote: 
 
><snip> Keep in mind that judging is VERY subjective; 
><snip> So, to summarize all this, take contests with a grain of salt.  If you 
><snip> and your friends like your beer, then you're doing well. 
 
i agree based on my experience in competitions.  i wish the judging wasn't 
as subjective as it appears to be, ideally it would be totally objective, but 
that's not possible.  i agree with george when he says if you like your beer, 
and i would add that if you can consistently brew beer that you like, you're 
doing well. 
 
glyn wrote: 
 
>I'm trying to get a better handle on the use of flaked grains and the 
>122^F rest.  In my current Pumpernickle Porter, great beer, the main 
>flaw, as I see it is its lack of head.  With flaked grains, be they 
>rye, wheat, or barley, do they need the 122^F rest?  If so how long? 
>Did the long 122^F rest kill the head?<snip> 
 
the protein rest is useful for adjuncts with a high amount of bigger proteins, 
such as flaked barley.  you can end up with hazy beer if you don't give a 
protein rest to break them down.  for a dark beer, perhaps haze is not as much 
of an issue for some people.  i'm not sure about the big protein content of 
other flaked grains. 
 
one thing you can try is raising the temperature of the protein rest to 
130 or 135 deg. F.  the higher temperature favors the protein-degrading 
enzyme that breaks down bigger proteins (into the size you want) and lessens 
the effects of the enzyme that breaks the smaller proteins down (into even 
smaller pieces).  keep in mind at 135 deg. F there may be some beta amylase 
activity (if there's any small starch available). 
 
however, this raises a question i have about head retention and dark beers. 
i've noticed that some of my darker beers tend to not have as good head 
retention as my paler (non-lagered) ones.  i wonder, does a low pH during 
the protein rest/mashing contribute to lower head retention?   i remember that 
one of the protein-degrading enzymes (peptidase?, protease?) works better at 
lower pH levels than the other.  it seems like a lot of my dark beers have 
this problem.  i have difficulty measuring dark wort pH because i use 3-color 
pH strips and they get discolored to the point that i'm not sure what the pH 
really is.  maybe there's more to it than just the protein rest results at a 
low pH.  i know my hot break is sometimes pretty small for dark beers.  does 
this affect head retention at all? 
 
al k wrote (in response to my not being able to find a commercial dunkel): 
 
>Ayinger Altbayerish (sp?)  Dunkel.  Maltiest beer I've ever tasted. 
 
i actually found this exact beer in a store over the weekend, and it sounded 
the death knell for my dunkel recipe.  if any of you are looking to brew a 
munich style dark beer, this is probably a good beer to gage your effort 
against.  pretty cool name, too. altbayerisch =  "old bavarian". 
 
brew hard, 
 
mark (alt)bayer(isch) 
 

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From: "Aaron Herrick" <chemstat at phoenix.net>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 17:03:31 -0500
Subject: Re: Emergency replacement for campden tablets

High Guys: 
Eric Fouch spake thusly: 
>Has anybody ever tried substituting Vagisil (Tm) or Mycelex 7 (Tm) (no 
affiliation, just a would-be customer) for metabisulfite in a pinch (or 
for 
higher pH applications, like a beer wort) to control wild yeast activity? 
 < 
Off the top of my head, I would expect this to be a BAD idea. 
Both products also presumably contain chemicals/adjuncts for medical 
purposes which may or may not affect taste. 
 
Simple test: 
Drop a vagisil in a glass of water, taste water.  Taste good? 
 
not to mention that the  buggies classified as wort spoilers are not 
necessarily. the same buggies which cause uh,ah, well OK I'll say it: 
 
Yeast Infections 
 
So You may not help your beer at all. 
Eric concludes: 
> 
"I'm probably just too curious for my own good" 
< 
 
I heartily agree :) Though that is probably the most off the wall question 
I've seen here in months! 
 

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From: cburns at egusd.k12.ca.us (Charles Burns)
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 96 15:15 PDT
Subject: professionals in amateur homebrew competitions

Andy Walsh writes: 
 
>The annual Ausbeer nationwide homebrew competition is almost 
> on us over here again. 
 
>It has come to my attention that several people who are professional 
>brewers are entering this competition. 
 
I think the competition organizers should clearly state that the contest is 
either amature or professional (most do this). Then its up to the organizers 
if they want to get AR about checking credentials. Its also up to the 
contestants to be honest or not. If the organizers find out that a winner is 
pro (in an amature contest) they should pull the prize and award it to the 
next one in line. 
 
Define a professional? I'd say they must be working at or have recent 
working experience at brewery or brewpub. 
 
Andy - can you get us entry forms and other information about the contest? 
- --------------------------------------------------------------- 
Charles Burns, Director, Information Systems 
Elk Grove Unified School District 
cburns at egusd.k12.ca.us, http://www.egusd.k12.ca.us 
916-686-7710 (voice), 916-686-4451 (fax) 
http://www.el-dorado.ca.us/~cburns/ 
 

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From: Brian S Kuhl <Brian_S_Kuhl at ccm.fm.intel.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 96 15:14:00 PDT
Subject: Blowoff tube blues

David Writes: 
>I had to chuckle over this one, based on a near-disasterous mishap I had. I 
>also use a 6.5 gal. carboy, and retired my 1 1/4 inch blowoff hose in favor of
>the extra headspace, until this happened: One night I put my carboy in it's 
>usual dark corner with! 
>a 5 gal batch, dry hopped with whole leaf hops, and Whitbread ale yeast (which
>I have found since to be _quite_ active) and stoppered with a normal airlock. 
>My wife gets up in the AM about 1 1/2 hours earlier than I do, and that 
morning
>she came in, wo! 
>ke me from my hop-filled slumber, and said "Should this thing be whistling 
like
>this?" I arose to find that my airlock was full of foam and trub, and had been
>almost completely plugged by hop cones!! When I removed the airlock, I was 
>rewarded with a ni! 
>ce "WHOOSH" as the pressure was relased all at once. Fortunately it had not 
>been under pressure long enougn for too much CO2 to be in suspension, and I 
did
>not end up with a gyser! 
 
Well, I have to stand by my record of no problems of near geysers! I 
would suggest that, anyone not using a blowoff tube, monitor/control his 
fermentation temperatures to the low side and wait until secondary fermentation
to dry hop. I have to assume David is adding hops to the primary due to the 
abundant activity he speaks of. 
Good luck... 
CU 
Brian 

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From: "John M. Posing" <jmposing at colint.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 17:16:45 -0500
Subject: "Authentic" pils schedule

There appears to be a bit of confusion about this schedule. In my first 
posting I said that I had done my second decoction and what a long day 
it had been. Also I mentioned that this schedule was from The Brewers 
Companion by Randy Mosher. Many people sent requests for details, so I 
posted the schedule practically verbatum from the book. I also thought 
that it appeared to be a very thin mash, but after the decoction 
evaporation, worked fine. I transfered this weekend, and my 
hydrometer/taste sample was might fine. Great malt flavor. 
- -- 
John M. Posing 
jmposing at colint.com 

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From: Jim Cave <CAVE at PSC.ORG>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 15:42:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Al Korzonas' comments re: channelling/setmash.

 Al notes that he has never had a setmash.  He is lucky!  I've had 
3 so far out of 100 mashes.  2 were weizens's (one step mash, one decoction) 
one was a doppelbock (34 lbs of grain in a keg mashtunn and double decoction). 
 
 I concluded that the reasons for these set mashes in my situation were 
(in order of importance): 
 
 1)  recirculation was at too great a rate and 1st runnings collected 
too quickly. I since checked Warner. He gives rates that were much slower than 
what I was using.  I put the valve wide open.  This works fine for most mashes 
but didn't for the decoction mashes.  Apparently decoction mashes require 
this to be carried out more slowly. The result was that the grain bed in these 
situations compacted severely. 
 
 2) Too fine a crush, for the mash employed.  Although you don't have 
to worry about shredding husks with malted wheat, if the particle size is 
too small, the bed compacts too much. 
 
 3) Sparge started too late and bed compacted. 
 
 In these three mashes, the bed, when turned out into the compost bin, 
was mottled in appearance, with the darker portions remaining sweet.  This 
suggests channelling in these cases.  Sparging times approached 3 hours! 
Apparently, some breweries routinely stir or rake (terminology?) the entire 
grain bed, re-cirulate again, and continue collecting runnings.  This may be 
done several times.  I've yet to verify this procedure (disclaimer). 
 
    Jim Cave 

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From: "Paul A. Hausman" <lion!paul at saturn.planet.net>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 18:17:00 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Thames Valley, again...

On Mon, 16 Sep 1996 Scott Campbell <scampbell at landstroms.com> wrote: 
> I racked an ale of mine to secondary 5 weeks ago and it is still 
> fermenting. It dropped from 1.02 to 1.012 in the last 2 weeks, but 
> is still bubbling away. I used Tames Valley Wyeast (Im not sure of the #). 
 
The same day, sabene at fcg.net (Scott Abene) wrote: 
> I recently tried this yeast (Thames Valley Wyeast) and found that although 
> I had a good starter and a good amount of air in the chilled wort, initial 
> fermentation to my 6 gallon batch seemed sluggish to kick in. 
> I didn't get a good hearty bubbling in the air-lock for about 26 hours... 
 
Just to add my experience, I smacked a pack on Sunday morning, 9/15, 
hoping to brew on Wed. or Thurs. evening.  It's now Tues eve., 9/17 
and the pack is still less than 1/2" thick!  I'll never have a starter 
up in time for brewing this week.  The date on the pack was August 28, 
so it isn't very old, and I've never had problems with the HB shop 
from which it came.  Seems a trend here.  Has anyone had a GOOD 
experience with this strain?  Should I take it back and exchange it 
for *real* yeast?  Is it worth the wait? 
*************************************************************************** 
* Paul A. Hausman                                           Paul at Lion.com * 
* Lion Technology Inc.                             Voice:  (201) 383-0800 * 
* P.O. Box 700, Lafayette, NJ  07848                 Fax:  (201) 383-2459 * 
*************************************************************************** 

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From: korz at pubs.ih.lucent.com
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 96 17:57:55 CDT
Subject: Vienna, Munich and Victory/Special B/headspace

Don writes: 
>If my memory serves me correctly, Vienna 
>still has some diastatic power, while Munich is low or nil, however, I 
>don't use only Vienna or Munich for the reason you stated, and also a 
>second reason. 
 
Your memory fails you Don (as mine does at times).  Vienna and Munich 
both have plenty of diastatic power to convert themselves.  Even DeWolf- 
Cosyns Aromatic (which is a very dark Munich at around 25 Lovibond) 
has enough enzymatic power to convert itself.  The confusion was that 
someone mixed up a post about Victory (a toasted malt, like Biscuit, that 
has virutually no diastatic power) with Vienna (a pale high-kilned malt 
that has plenty).  Incidentally, 6-row malts invariably have more enzymatic 
power than 2-row malts of the same type.  Enzymes are proteins and the 
protein level of 6-row malts is higher, so it's not suprising.  While not 
necessarily the case for all malt types, I agree that the 2-row German and 
Belgian Vienna and Munich have much better flavour than their 6-row 
counterparts. 
 
*** 
Matt asks about Special B. 
 
Special B is a very dark Belgian crystal malt.  It has a deep, rich 
raisiny aroma/flavour and a little roasty, dark malt aroma/flavour too. 
It does not have to be mashed and has no enzymatic power.  Treat it like 
a dark crystal (150 to 250 Lovibond)... i.e. don't use more than 1/4 or 
1/2 pound in a medium-gravity amber or dark beer.  You can go a little 
higher in really big beers.  It is an important part of getting that 
raisiny flavour of Chimay Premier and Grand Reserve. 
 
*** 
Darrin asks about headspace in a Barleywine. 
 
Headspace in the primary is never a problem no matter what the style. 
Fermentation creates CO2 which pushes all the air out of the headspace. 
Some brewers who use secondaries worry about headspace after racking, 
but I wouldn't: the action of siphoning releases quite a bit of dissolved 
CO2 and that will purge out any air from the headspace of the secondary. 
This doesn't mean that you should not still be careful to not splash 
the beer your are racking. 
 
Al. 
 
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL 
korzonas at lucent.com 

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From: ajdel at interramp.com (A. J. deLange)
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 23:10:23 -0500
Subject: Copper

John DeCarlo commented on the copper levels in beer. M&BS has a table of 
inorganic constituents of beer. They report German beers as containling 
from 0.04 to 0.8 mg/L copper with a mean of 0.19. British beers are 
reported to contain 0.3 to 0.8 mg/L. The numbers for "Lagers" are 0.01 - 
0.41 with a mean of 0.11 mg/L. Note that 1.5 to 3 mg/day is the estimated 
"safe and adequate" daily dietary intake for adults. It is also interesting 
to note that doses as small as 10 mg can cause nausea in an adult although 
chronic daily intakes of from 10 to 35 mg/day have been observed without 
ill effects (must be German and British beer drinkers). 
 
A.J. deLange   Numquam in dubio, saepe in errore! 
ajdel at interramp.com 
 
 

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From: "Houseman, David L TR" <DLH1 at trpo3.tr.unisys.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 96 19:26:00 EDT
Subject: BEER COMPETITION ORGANIZER SYSTEM

 
BEER COMPETITION ORGANIZER SYSTEM 
 
Barry Delapp is pleased to announce availability of the Beer Competition 
Organizer (BCO) shareware, developed to simplify the task of running a 
homebrew competition.  It is being offered to all organizers of homebrew 
competitions for a $25 service charge to cover materials, documentation, 
handling and shipping.  This software runs on standard PC and 
compatibles. 
This package has been used at a number of competitions successfully, 
including this year's first round of the AHA Nationals. 
 
He got frustrated after helping with our club's first homebrew event, in 
1994.  The manual effort was staggering and he started programming 
immediately afterward to automate the process for the next year.  With 
the dual role of developer and user, he got carried away and invested 
several man-months in software development.  After each of the first few 
uses, he made significant enhancements (users can be very demanding) and 
generalized the software for use in most types of homebrew 
competitions.  As a result, he believes anyone running a beer contest 
will 
benefit significantly from this system. 
 
The system is used to organize brewers, entry forms, entry bottles, 
judges, scores assigned by judges, prizes awarded and the return of 
score sheets to brewers.  With it, you will be able to perform the 
following: 
 -print peel-off entry number labels to apply to bottles and entry forms. 
 -record brewer's names and addresses. 
 -record the entries for each brewer including category, subcategory and 
special information for judges (dry/medium/sweet, special ingredients, 
classic styles, etc.). 
 -collapse category/subcategories into tables for judging and awarding 
prizes. 
 -split tables into flights for judging (usually if 12 or more entries 
are entered for one table). 
 -enter judges who are expected to be available, their favorite 
category/subcategories and their least favorite category/subcategories. 
 -print Pull Lists.  Pull Lists are printed reports of what beers are 
included in each flight with all information judges are supposed to be 
provided (category/subcategory, special ingredients, dry/medium/sweet, 
etc.).  Each list is used: 
 --by judges to keep track of beers being judged, 
 --by stewards to pull the right beers in the correct order, and 
 --as a turnaround document to report the scores and prizes assigned to 
  each entry in each flight for each table. 
 -print Table Signs showing each table/flight to be judged.   These can 
be placed at the judging locations so judges will know where to go after 
being assigned to a table/flight. 
 -print Judge Assignment Matrix for up to 3 scheduled rounds of judging. 
Each matrix shows rows of scheduled judges and columns of table/flights 
to be judged.  Cells of the matrix are pre-filled with: 
 --preferences of judges for beers in the table/flight (1st, 2nd, 3rd 
choice), 
 --dislike for the beers in the table/flight, and 
 --disqualification for a table because of one or more entries at that 
table was brewed by the judge. 
 -record judge assignments made by the Judge Coordinator for each 
table/flight. 
 -reprint the Judge Assignment Matrix after preliminary judge assignments 
to verify that all judges have been assigned and all table/flights are 
covered by a full complement of judges. 
 -record judges who show up unannounced (walk-ins) and delete expected 
judges who do not show up (no-shows) when the competition starts. 
 -print peel-off labels for each judge so he doesn't have to write the 
header information on each score sheet.  The labels state the entry 
number and entry information, the judge's name and judge experience 
level.  This eliminates some errors of judges writing the wrong 
information on the sheet and saves judges time. 
 -record scores and prizes on the PC directly from each Pull Lists used 
as turnaround documents. 
 -print Best of Show Pull List  -- a Pull List of all entries awarded a 
1st Place. 
 -print a report of Winners (prizes by table with names and home towns of 
all prize winners). 
 -print a report of all Results (brewers, categories and scores). 
 -print mail address labels for all brewers who entered beers for mailing 
back score sheets (and optionally for sending entry forms before the 
next competition). 
 -distribute competition results and score sheets to brewers who attend 
the awards ceremony! 
 
To order, please contact: 
 
Barry DeLapp, 9 Airdrie Court, Paoli, PA 19301 
(610) 644-0224  or  barry at pictorl.com on the Internet. 
 
As always, no connection with Barry and his software other than satisfied 
organizer who used it and recommends it. 
 
Dave Houseman 

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