Homebrew Digest Tuesday, 17 September 1996 Number 2190
![[Prev HBD]](/img/previous.gif)
![[Index]](/img/index_button.gif)
![[Next HBD]](/img/next.gif)
![[Back]](/img/up_level_button.gif)
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Shawn Steele, Digest Janitor
Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!
Contents:
Re: Imperial gallon vs. US gallon ((DON CHASE))
Spruce Beer / RIMS Issues / Berry Little Gravity (KennyEddy at aol.com)
Peach State Brew-Off Results (<egross at emory.edu>)
Re: Lagering in Corny's (Jay Weissler)
Yeast Combo ((Scott Abene))
Re: professionals in amateur homebrew competitions (Don Trotter)
Re: Reviews we can taste -ATTENTION BEER JUDGES (Don Trotter)
Re:Dealing With Spam (Kelly Jones)
RE: BBC Longshot contest ((George De Piro))
Grain alcohol as a sanitizer / Lagering in a corny ((George De Piro))
Re: Special B ((Mike Uchima))
Re: O2 Pressuring. (hollen at vigra.com)
Crushing Grains and Yet Another Thing to Worry About (John DeCarlo)
Oxygenation with airstones (David Whitwell)
Re: professionals in amateur homebrew competitions (hollen at vigra.com)
122^F rest (<CROSSNO at novell2.tn.cubic.com>)
enzymes, etc. ((BAYEROSPACE))
force carbntn/decoction/fruit beer/Munich Dunkel/Weizen yeasts ((Algis R Korzonas))
Vienna and Munich Malt ((Bill Giffin))
aeration, oxygenation, oxidation ((BAYEROSPACE))
For SUBMISSIONS to be published, send mail to:
homebrew at aob.org
For (UN)SUBSCRIBE requests, send mail to:
homebrew-digest-request@ aob.org
and include ONLY subscribe or unsubscribe in the BODY of the message.
Please note that if subscribed via BEER-L, you must unsubscribe by sending
a one line e-mail to listserv at ua1vm.ua.edu that says: UNSUB BEER-L
If your address is changing, please unsubscribe from the old address and
then subscribe from the new address.
If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first.
For technical problems send e-mail to the Digest Janitor, shawn at aob.org.
OTHER HOMEBREW INFORMATION
http://www.aob.org/aob - The AHA's web site.
http://alpha.rollanet.org - "The Brewery" and the Cat's Meow Archives.
info at aob.org - automated e-mail homebrewing information.
ARCHIVES:
At ftp.stanford.edu in /pub/clubs/homebrew/beer via anonymous ftp. Also
http://alpha.rollanet.org on the web and at majordomo at aob.org by e-mail.
COPYRIGHT:
As with all forums such as this one, copyrights are retained by the
original authors. In accordance with the wishes of the members of the
Homebrew Digest, posts to the HBD may NOT be sold or used as part of a
collection that is sold without the original authors' consent. Copies
may ONLY be made available at no charge and should include the current
posting and subscription addresses for the HBD.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: wchase at alpha.utampa.edu (DON CHASE)
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 09:30:04 -0400
Subject: Re: Imperial gallon vs. US gallon
David Nash wrote:
>On a similar note, but in reverse, when converting recipes formulated
>for US gallons to our big chunky British ones, how should I convert
>hop, grain, and malt extract weights?
I just looked this up in the World Almanac (1992, FWIW):
1 quart, liquid, US = 0.833 British quart
1 quart, dry , US = 0.969 British quart
1 quart, British = 1.201 US liquid quarts
1 " " = 1.032 US dry quarts
>I believe 1 US gallon = 4/5 Imperial gallon. Do I just multiply the
>amounts of everything by 5/4 or is it more complicated than that?
4/5 = 0.800
5/4 = 1.250
Sounds like that's a good rule for estimating, but for actual conversions
I would use the Almanac's numbers, IMHO. Just to refresh everyone on the
math, (I'm not being condescending, I had to pull out the calculator to
make sure _I_ was doing it correctly...conversions are confusing.)
USgal * 0.833 = Imperialgal
Imperialgal * 1.201 = USgal
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don Chase | Hombrewing : the only sport open exclusively
Objectivist...Businessman... | to anal-retentive alcoholics.
Homebrewer. | Relax...have a homebrew.
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Return to table of contents
From: KennyEddy at aol.com
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 10:39:00 -0400
Subject: Spruce Beer / RIMS Issues / Berry Little Gravity
John Penn pines about spruce beer:
"I can't imagine spruce being used to "bitter" those "Badger beers" but it is
a strong flavor"
Strong indeed. I have the dubious honor of cold-storing a couple bottles of
spruce porter "accidentally" left behind by one of our club members who moved
away (thanks a lot, Fred). It was a favorite thing for him to do, to whip
out a bottle and watch everyone scramble to fill their mugs with "anything
else" before Fred could offer a Taste of the Woods. At first this stuff was
wickedly overpowering, but I recently sampled one of the bottles (going on
two years old) and found it quite drinkable, albeit still only in small
quantities. I'd have to agree with Mr Penn that perhaps 1/2 ounce of the
extract is more appropriate than the 1-ounce called for by CP. But do give
it time. Euell Gibbons would be right proud, son.
*****
Daryl K Kalenchuk wants to build a RIMS:
"haven't run across the disadvantages (there must be a couple) other than
cost and building time."
I'm in the process of RIMSifying my setup, and I can offer one thought.
Check out all the many splendid RIMS pages that have been advertised here
and at The Brewery in recent times, to see how others have done it. I found
that the seemingly simple task of piggybacking a RIMS chamber and pump to my
beverage-cooler mash-tun is a major undertaking of plumbing and goofy
fittings. Between trying to make it as disassmble-able as possible to
facilitate cleaning and figuring out something as simple as how to mount the
damn thing without rebuilding my garage, it's a lot more effort than it seems
up front. That's the "hidden" disadvantage -- planning & design.
"Everything looks good on paper". Plan way ahead.
*****
Bob Tisdale asks about gravity contribution of fruit:
"Can someone tell me how much 1 lb of raspberries contributes to original
gravity?"
Being in the middle of a cherry porter session, I've looked into this issue
myself. Every fruit has a certain percentage of sugar (there's a great chart
of sugar contents of fruits at The Brewery). Cherries for example contain
14%. I used 6 lb of cherries so that's equivalent to adding 0.84 lb of
sugar. Now wave the magic wand and make some unfounded assumptions about the
fermentabiliy of this sugar, and I find that 6 lb cherries in 5 gal of porter
add less than 1% alcohol. This is somewhere around 1 point of OG per pound
per gallon -- not enough to even worry about (after all that worrying). What
about any contribution from other components of the fruit? Don't know, but
probably negligible too.
Bottom line: use the fruit for flavor and forget the extra math. The amount
of added gravity and alcohol is lost in the recipe-formulation noise. Of
course, if you're using LOTS of fruit, you may have to start taking things
into account, but that's probably a question for the Whine and Cheese forum.
*****
Ken Schwartz
El Paso, TX
KennyEddy at aol.com
http://members.aol.com/kennyeddy
Return to table of contents
From: <egross at emory.edu>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 10:58:44 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Peach State Brew-Off Results
Here are the results of the 4th Annual Peach State Brewoff, sorry this
took so long but the computer system at Emory University SUCKS.As you can
see we broke out subcategories and combined categories;there were 260+
entries and ribbons awarded in 21 categories.The comic highlight of the
competition was when Dave Miller found an evil looking bee/fly hybrid in a
beer he was supposed to judge, he called for another bottle,and awarded
second place to that beer. The flyhopped entry was made by the organizer.
Place Category Beer Style Entry # Group Name Of Brewer(s)
1 01A Barleywine 187 1 Mark Gros
2 01A Barleywine 129 1 Evan Kraus
3 01A Barleywine 195 1 Gary Michel
1 02C Tripel 134 2 Evan Kraus
2 02B Dubbel 111 2 John Allen
3 02E Belgian Strong 189 2 Alan Bavry Jr
1 02F Belgian White 135 3 Evan Kraus
2 02F Belgian White 341 3 Chris Terenzi
3 02F Belgian White 240 3 David Feldman
1 04D American Brown 112 3 John Allen
2 04D American Brown 235 3 David and Jill Hicks
3 04D American Brown 303 3 Richard Louise and Eric Wild
1 03C Fruit Lambic 296 4 Owen Ogletree-Paul Eckloff
2 03B Gueuze Lambic 132 4 Evan Kraus
3 03C Fruit Lambic 118 4 Jeff Albertine
1 04B English Dark Mild 213 5 James Williams
2 04A English Light Mild 217 5 Sue Bergh
3 04A English Light Mild 227 5 Tom Comkowycz
1 05B India Pale Ale 295 6 Owen Ogletree-Paul Eckloff
2 05A English Pale Ale 110 6 John Allen
3 05A English Pale Ale 156 6 Chuck Jones
1 06A American Pale Ale 338 7 Chris Terenzi
2 06A American Pale Ale 126 7 Brian Buckowski
3 06A American Pale Ale 107 7 John Allen
1 08C Scottish Export 325 8 Ben Fitzgerald
2 07C English ESB 347 8 Debbie and Bill Brons
3 07A English Ordinary 108 8 John Allen
1 09A Porter 133 9 Evan Kraus
2 09A Porter 225 9 Richard Wampler
3 09A Porter 222 9 Robyn Wampler
1 10B Strong Scotch Ale 298 10 Owen Ogletree-Paul Eckloff-Kerri Allen
2 10B Strong Scotch Ale 285 10 Barry Browne
3 10B Strong Scotch Ale 220 10 Will Schweinbraten
1 11E Imperial Stout 358 10 Coby Glass
2 11E Imperial Stout 241 10 Andy Gobins
3 11E Imperial Stout 146 10 David Brown and Brian Green
1 11D Oatmeal Stout 185 11 Will Strawn
2 11D Oatmeal Stout 127 11 Brian Buckowski
3 11B Foreign Style Stout 231 11 Darrell Taylor
1 12C Doppelbock 192 12 David Pappas
2 13A Munich Dunkel 312 12 Brian And Patty Balmes
3 12C Doppelbock 352 12 Steve Nagygeller
1 16C American Cream Ale 184 13 Will Strawn
2 16C American Cream Ale 337 13 Chris Terenzi
3 15A German Pilsner 342 13 Chris Terenzi
1 18A Kolsch 284 14 Barry Browne
2 24A California Common 194 14 David Pappas
3 24A California Common 183 14 Will Strawn
1 19B German Weisen 142 15 Jamie Smith
2 19C Dunkelweizen 119 15 Tony Lema
3 19A Berliner Weisse 270 15 Dennis And Paul Waltman
1 20C Smoked Beer 117 16 Jeff Albertine
2 23A Specialty Beer 102 16 J.D. Eichman
3 23A Specialty Beer 291 16 Tom Moore
1 21A Fruit Beer 115 17 Jeff Albertine
2 21B Classic Style Fruit Beer 277 17 Dennis And Paul Waltman
3 21A Fruit Beer 272 17 Dennis And Paul Waltman
1 27B Spiced Mead 336 18 Lee Gross
2 25B Still Mead 265 18 Joe and Karen Jaccarino
3 25B Still Mead 198 18 Gary Michel
1 28D Specialty Cider 104 19 J.D. Eichman
Best Of Show
1 12C Doppelbock 192 12 David Pappas
2 02F Belgian White 135 3 Evan Kraus
3 03C Fruit Lambic 296 4 Owen Ogletree-Paul Eckloff
The sponsoring club for the competition, the Covert Hops Society, retained
the coveted Ale Grail for yet another year.Thanx to all who participated
in the 4th PSBO, especially the judges, the universally praised stewards
and the entrants.Those who submitted SASE with their entries have already
been mailed their score sheets unless they were awarded a ribbon, those
have to be sent in larger envelopes.
Lee Gross
Co-organizer
Return to table of contents
From: Jay Weissler <jay_weissler at il.us.swissbank.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 96 10:02:01 -0500
Subject: Re: Lagering in Corny's
Guy Gregory sez:
>lager for a month or so at 40 degrees (the lo temp limit of my fridge
>controller, the storied %*! at # Airstat).
Remove the airstat for the lager stage. Airstats are for keeping the fridge
warm enough for your ferment which is typically above the limit of the
fridge's own thermostat. The fridge can control itself on the cold side.
Hope this helps
jayw
Returning to Tokyo where homebrewing is now legal, but a good price for a 24
can case of Kirin is $96/US (which makes the $13 pints of Guiness look like
a bargain). Doug you've got it easy at $20/case.
Return to table of contents
From: sabene at fcg.net (Scott Abene)
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 10:01:08 -0600
Subject: Yeast Combo
>Hello, I will be brewing a dry stout this weekend and wanted to combine
>effects of two different yeasts WYEASTs' British Ale, and their Irish
>Ale. My only concern is, will I end Up with a Carboy bomb if I do this?
>
>Thank you
>Scott Dornseif
>CopyRight 1996 Al Korzonis
>
I am worried that this yeast comb is very very bad idea... Being that the
British and Irish don't really get along, you could have a very violent
fermentation that keeps rising up violently for hundreds of years....
I would check the denomination of the Irish yeast to make sure that there
will be no conflict...
- -Scott
Return to table of contents
From: Don Trotter <dtrotter at imtn.tpd.dsccc.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 10:09:35 -0500
Subject: Re: professionals in amateur homebrew competitions
My .02 is, if they do it at home and with their own equipment, however
(un)sophisticated, it's homebrew and may be entered. There is much more to
brewing commercially, and although they may be more knowledgable than the rest
of us novices, they are still homebrewers too. HOWEVER, if they are entering
beers that were made with equipment that they use to produce beer commercially,
like brewing/fermenting thier beer at the local brewpub, then this should be
disqualified, because it' snot HOMEbrew any more.
don
Return to table of contents
From: Don Trotter <dtrotter at imtn.tpd.dsccc.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 10:18:35 -0500
Subject: Re: Reviews we can taste -ATTENTION BEER JUDGES
Wallie Meisner suggests that we start a BJCP style judging forum. I
think this a very worthwile effort. I for one would like to
participate, and I know others who would. Our club, The North Texas
Home Brewers Association, Inc., is engauged in such a process. We are
holding BJCP study sessions, and will offer the BJCP exam in March, at
the Bluebonnet Brewoff Homebrew Competition.
See our newsletter on the net.
http://alpha.rollanet.org/~nthba
don - Just a member of NTHBA.
Return to table of contents
From: Kelly Jones <kejones at ptdcs2.intel.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 08:38:34 -0700
Subject: Re:Dealing With Spam
Mike Adams suggests requesting as much snail-mail info as possible from
spammers, but not using your real address.
If you're looking for someone else's address to use, might I suggest you
look at the end of a few 'Make Money Fast' posts? These usually include
5-10 addresses of people just dying to get stuff in the mail. Kill two
birds with one stamp!
Kelly
Return to table of contents
From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com (George De Piro)
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 09:38:49 -0700
Subject: RE: BBC Longshot contest
Howdy!
I was a judge at this year's BBC contest, and a contestant last year.
In view of the recent posts, I would like to add my humble views about
this, and all contests.
First, Kit complains that one judge (Noonan, no less) gave his beer a
40 while the other two judges gave it a score in the low 20's.
Really? What was Noonan thinking? As the "ranking" judge, he should
have questioned the lower scores. It is usually understood that if
the judges' scores are within 6 points of each other, the judging was
reasonable. If they differ widely, some (sometimes intense)
discussion should follow. From Kit's description, it sounds like the
"low" judges didn't know the style.
Wayne complains that his stout scored poorly. Did you enter it into
any other contests? This could either validate or refute the BBC
judges' scores. Keep in mind that judging is VERY subjective;
everyone has different sensitivities to different aromas/flavors.
The judges comments should be constructive, to help you improve as a
brewer. It sounds like the comments you got may have been a bit
harsh.
Also, how did you ship your beer? One BIG problem I have with the BBC
and AHA is that their contests were held during the hot summer months.
I shipped my second round beers to New Orleans overnight, the day
before the deadline (at great expense), to minimize the risk of them
sitting in a 100F+ UPS warehouse. A lot can happen to your beer on a
cross-country journey! Bugs that may have been somewhat dormant in
your beer (if you store it cool) may have been aroused by the heat and
went about their nasty business.
Overall, the beers I judged at the BBC were quite poor. I also know
that they only got half the entries of the first year (~800). I also
believe (just my opinion, no evidence) that the finalists chosen by
Jim Koch and friends are chosen because he wants to MARKET that style
this year. The California Common beer that went to the finals wasn't
great (I judged it, mid-thirties, which was high enough to send it to
the round that J.K. judged).
There was also another problem at this contest: mis-entered beers.
Let's go back in time, to last year's BBC contest. I entered a very
nice Bavarian Weizen. It had done well at regional events, etc. When
I got my score sheets back from BBC I was shocked to see a score in
the mid-twenties. I read the comments, "Banana, clove, malty. Would
make a good Bavarian Weizen."
"WHAT?" I thought to myself. "It IS a Bavarian Weizen!" I looked at
the top of the sheet, and sure enough, the beer was NOT entered into
the proper category. It was put into the Berliner Weisse category! I
know this was not my mistake, because I've never brewed a Berliner
Weisse, and I only entered one beer!
At this years' contest, I judged Cream ales (somebody's got to do it).
The three beers I liked best were NOT cream ales (and therefore
received low scores). I don't know if the contestants or the
organizers were to blame in these cases, but I know who was at fault
in my case last year!
So, to summarize all this, take contests with a grain of salt. If you
and your friends like your beer, then you're doing well. If you want
more educated critiques, enter contests, but keep in mind that beer
judging is the most subjective job on the planet. If you consistently
get the same comments, then take them to heart, good or bad. You
can't safely accept the results of one judging, because you can never
be sure of the quality of the judges.
My Maerzen scored in the low 20's at a small contest just weeks
before winning the Nationals; keep in mind that those same judges
awarded some other Maerzen first place! I'm sure that beer missed the
style because the judges didn't know the style, but that person
probably thought that the AHA national judges were poor because they
gave the beer a low score after it won this other contest! My point
is, even comments that are positive could be wrong. Take it all for
what it's worth.
Sorry this is so long, Have Fun!
George De Piro (Nyack, NY)
Return to table of contents
From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com (George De Piro)
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 09:50:41 -0700
Subject: Grain alcohol as a sanitizer / Lagering in a corny
Hello again!
This one's short...
Tim mentions using 100% ethanol as a sanitizer. Ethanol is most
effective when it is diluted with water to a strength of 70%. It is
better at denaturing proteins at this concentration.
---------------------
Guy wrote about lagering in a corny. Actually, the way you do it is
fine, Guy. I wrote, and still maintain, that it is easiest to lager
in a vented secondary (i.e., one with an airlock) so that the
undesirable volatiles can escape. Once the beer smells clean (devoid
of sulfur notes) it can be sealed in a keg.
It is possible to vent a sealed keg periodically to purge the
undesirable aromas, but it's less labor intensive to just let it sit
in a vented container (in fact, no effort on the brewer's part).
Have Fun!
George De Piro (Nyack, NY)
Return to table of contents
From: uchima at fncrd8.fnal.gov (Mike Uchima)
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 11:04:28 -0500
Subject: Re: Special B
matth at bedford.progress.com (Matthew J. Harper) asks:
> A 3lb bag of malt (uncrushed) marked 'Special B'. It's a pretty dark malt.
> I dunno what it is and haven't found any recipes that call specifically for
> it so I figure it must have another name it goes by.
>
> I'd love to make a batch with it, but I'd like to have a clue what to expect
> when it's done!-)
>
> If you can tell me what it is I'd be ever so grateful!
Special B is... well, Special B. I'm not aware of any other malt like it. It
is essentially a very dark crystal malt (around 250L). Somewhere in the grey
area between a "normal" crystal malt, and chocolate malt I guess. I really
like this stuff; lately, I've been adding a few ounces of it to many of my
dark ales, in addition to the other specialty grains. Excellent in Porters,
IMO.
I've started playing around with some of the other specialty malts from
DeWolf-Cosyns (the people who make Special B) as well. They have some unusual
malts ("Aromatic" and "Biscuit") that I'm just starting to experiment with...
- -- Mike Uchima
- -- uchima at fncrd8.fnal.gov
Return to table of contents
From: hollen at vigra.com
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 96 09:27:42 PDT
Subject: Re: O2 Pressuring.
>> Duff Hickman writes:
Duff> I know it's possible (I hear) for yeast to run out of oxygen
Duff> before running out of fermentable sugars in high gravity brews
Duff> (barleywine, scotch heavies, tripplebocks, meads, etc.) even if
Duff> the wort is saturated with O2 at the time of pitching (at
Duff> fermentation temps). What would happen if one waited until
Duff> "primary" fermentation had slowed down to a crawl or apparent
Duff> end and then siphoned into a corney for further fermentation,
Duff> then force "oxygenated" the keg with an O2 tank instead of a CO2
Duff> tank?
I ferment both primary and secondary exclusively in corny kegs. I use
"pressure oxygenation" at the beginning of the fermentation cycle
through a carbonation stone (SS sintered 2 micron holes) and have had
wonderful results. However, your notion of oxygenation when the yeast
have already entered their anaerobic phase worries me. This question
I think is better addressed by someone with a better knowledge of
yeast biology, but I think that your idea would be very bad for the
yeast and the resulting beer.
If you are interested in learning how to force oxygenate beer wort in
a corny keg, see my article in the Sep/Oct 1995 issue of Brewing
Techniques on page 32.
dion
- --
Dion Hollenbeck (619)597-7080x164 Email: hollen at vigra.com
Sr. Software Engineer - Vigra Div. of Visicom Labs San Diego, California
Return to table of contents
From: John DeCarlo <jdecarlo at juno.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 12:35:12 -0400
Subject: Crushing Grains and Yet Another Thing to Worry About
This discussion of generating flour when crushing grains leads me to a
WARNING!!!!!!!
Flour generated can get into the air and cause an explosion (one small
spark!). Now commercial operations have more of a concern with this
than we, presumably, but if you motorize and process a lot of grain in a
small room, you may need to be concerned.
John "Just another safety message for your benefit" DeCarlo
Return to table of contents
From: David Whitwell <DWhitwell at wow.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 12:36:26 -0400
Subject: Oxygenation with airstones
I am interested in using a bubblestone to oxygenate the wort of my next ale. I
seem to recall there was a way to put a piece of cotton soaked with rubbing
alcohol in the airline to act as a "bacteria trap" to keep the beasties from
getting to the wort before my yeasties. Since none of the airpumps I saw had an
"in" line that could be filtered in this fashion, I assume I would have to
filter it somewhere along the "out" line. Is there an easy, cheap way to do
this?
Brew On!
David
Return to table of contents
From: hollen at vigra.com
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 96 09:49:41 PDT
Subject: Re: professionals in amateur homebrew competitions
Andy raises a some good points. Since I know nearly all the
professional brewers here in San Diego, I don't have a problem with a
professional entering a beer that has been brewed on a home system.
Most of these brewers started out as home brewers and when they brew
on a professional system, this is *not* an advantage. They must brew
to make money, and generally, this means a limited number of recipes
made a large number of times. They do not have the opportunity to
innovate as much as homebrewers do with 5 gallon batches. Would you
want to take chances with the money represented by 300 gallons of
beer?
On top of that, if they take a recipe they have perfected on a 10
barrel system down to a 5 gallon system, then the whole ball game gets
redefined. They will most likely not be able to duplicate the recipe
the first time due to changes in behavior with volume of ingredients.
Almost like starting over with a new recipe.
dion
- --
Dion Hollenbeck (619)597-7080x164 Email: hollen at vigra.com
Sr. Software Engineer - Vigra Div. of Visicom Labs San Diego, California
Return to table of contents
From: <CROSSNO at novell2.tn.cubic.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 10:59:00 CST
Subject: 122^F rest
I'm trying to get a better handle on the use of flaked grains and the
122^F rest. In my current Pumpernickle Porter, great beer, the main
flaw, as I see it is its lack of head. With flaked grains, be they
rye, wheat, or barley, do they need the 122^F rest? If so how long?
Did the long 122^F rest kill the head? Got caught haveing to play
dad.
Thanks,
Glyn Crossno, Estill Springs, TN
Crossno at novell2.tn.cubic.com
- ---->
Blackwood Hollow Brewery: Now Serving: Pumpernickle Porter.
Now in lagering tanks, Columbus Get Us.
Glyn.Crossno at cubic.com
Return to table of contents
From: M257876 at sl1001.mdc.com (BAYEROSPACE)
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 11:57 -0600
Subject: enzymes, etc.
collective homebrew conscience:
larry johnson (nba star?) wrote:
<snip> I have definitely noticed a
<difference in taste between beers consumed out-and-about and beers consumed
<at home. I know what this sounds like, but it's the honest truth. A given
<beer tastes better to me if I'm drinking it in the company of others than if
<I am alone.
let me tell you what my experience is: i don't necessarily think that beer
tastes better when i'm with people as opposed to being by myself, but i have
noticed a huge difference in the taste of beer when i drink outside as
opposed to indoors. huge. i get a lot more aroma at the beginning and the
taste is just absolutely different. you guys probably think i'm nuts, but i
swear this is the truth. when i really want to enjoy a beer, i go out on the
back patio.
tim martin wrote:
> A recent brewer mentioned he tried to do
>a whole batch with Vienna (I believe) malt that his supplier
>recommended but it would not mash because it did not have
>the enzymes needed. My question is does Vienna and
>Munich malts have enzymes or not?
i think the culprit malt was actually victory malt (not sure what style that
is), and the answer to the question is yes, munich and vienna malts do have
enzymes, albeit not nearly as many as pils malt. way less, so be careful and
don't overshoot that mash temp.
kit anderson wrote:
> I submitted a wit that Greg Noonan gave a 40
>to. The two non-ranked judges gave it a 22. Chill haze, estery, acidic were
>the only comments.
hazy, estery, acidic? sounds like you hit the style right on the head. these
so called "judges" are probably marketing gurus looking for the next zima.
duffy toler asked if gas in/liquid out fittings are interchangeable on a ball
lock cornelius keg. on my kegs they are not, and you definitely don't want
to mistakenly hook up the "beer out" fitting to the gas line by mistake. trust
me. mark those fittings well. (congrats on the better extraction, duffy)
i see i have confused yet more brewers by starting up the hot side aeration
topic again. more to come...
brew hard,
mark bayer
Return to table of contents
From: korzonas at lucent.com (Algis R Korzonas)
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 96 12:01:41 CDT
Subject: force carbntn/decoction/fruit beer/Munich Dunkel/Weizen yeasts
Dennis writes:
(after purging the air from the keg)...
>now you are ready to carbonate, The recomended volumes for wheat beer
>is about 3.0 and at 44F you should set your regulator for 20 psi.
>
>rock the keg back and forth until you don't here the Co2 flowing into
>the keg anymore which indicates that the pressures are equalized and
>no more Co2 is being dissovled into the beer.
>
>Shut off the gas and disconnect the line and store the keg in your
>fridge for a minimum of 3 days.
Why 3 days. I say, wait an hour and then serve. The only reason for
waiting that hour is that the beer will tend to foam too much at first.
Years ago, there was a long discussion about why shaking a bottle or
can of beer made it gush. There were people who said the pressure
rose when you shook the container... no way! I believe that someone
finally posted that the shaking of the beer causes eddys which provide
nucleation sites. If you open the bottle/can/keg while these are still
numerous, the CO2 will come out of solution too rapidly.
>Most of this information is found in "Brewing the Worlds Great Beers"
>by Dave Miller
Let's not forget that this is the same Dave Miller who wrote in "Dave
Miller's Homebrew Guide" that during conditioning, the yeast eat the
priming sugars quickly and then take weeks to dissolve into the beer.
***
John posted an "Authentic" Pilsner triple-decoction mash schedule.
Times and temperatures seemed reasonable to me but I have one question
and two comments.
Q: Is this *THE* mash schedule (times and temps) for some well-known beer
or is it *A* triple-decoction mash you have found to work.
Comment 1: depending on how fast you transfer, your altitude and other
factors such as how well insulated your mash tun is (i.e. how much temperature
drop there is) you may need to remove more than 1/3 of your mash for
the decoctions. In my experience, I had to take about 1/2 of the mash to
raise the rest mash from 135F to 155F.
Comment 2: To do the mash out, traditionally the runnings are taken from
the mash tun (no grain in this decoction) and they are heated to boiling
and returned to the rest mash to raise to mashout. The reason you don't
want to take any grains during this final decoction is because if you do,
the boiling may release some unconverted starch. When you return to the
main mash, this starch will have no enzymes to convert it unlike the other
decoctions did.
***
Don writes (reposting fruit use info from someone else):
>1. Add 1-2 qt water to pot.
>2. Add fruit.
>3. Mash well, before mixture gets above ~100F to avoid HSA.
>4. Bring to 160-170F.
>5. Add pectin.
If this is not a typo, then it is incorrect. Pectin is added if you
want to make jelly, not beer. The pectin will cause a permanent haze
in the beer. If it is a typo and "pectic enzyme" was meant, again, I
don't think this is right. I suspect that the pectic enzyme would be
denatured in minutes at 170F. Pectic enzyme is said to denature in
a few days at 68F and therefore must be kept refrigerated.
>6. Steep for 30 min at 170F.
>7. Chill to 65F.
>8. Ladle fruit from pot to strainer.
>9. Pour in juice.
>10. Collect strained fruit juice (really sweet stuff).
Here's what I did for my recent fruit beers. I froze then pasteurized the
raspberries and froze then blanched the cherries and blueberries. For the
raspberries, I heated them to between 140 and 150F for 10 minutes (a double
boilier helps). Then I purged a carboy with CO2 while the berries cooled
a bit and poured the warm berry soup into it. For the cherries and
blueberries, I dipped them into boiling water for a few seconds with a
strainer to kill off whatever might be on the skins and them mushed them
into the CO2-purged fermenter. Finished beer was siphoned from a large
primary into the fruit-filled secondaries.
***
Guy writes:
>Hey Al, how's the experiment going?
It and brewing in general (alas) are taking a back seat to book writing.
I should be back to brewing in two or three weeks. I'll make sure to
report back on it.
***
Mark writes (regarding Munich Dunkel):
>i have a strong feeling
>that the chocolate needs to be eliminated from the recipe, and perhaps even
>the crystal cut back a bit.
I agree. My current recipe is all Munich malt in the grain bill.
>my main problem is i can't find a munich dunkel in the beer stores i go to so
>i can compare. does anybody see dunkels in the beer stores? which beers?
Ayinger Altbayerish (sp?) Dunkel. Maltiest beer I've ever tasted.
***
Miguel writes:
>What are people's impressions after using
>Wyeast 3068 Weihenstephan, 3056 Bavarian wheat, one of the newer ones? Which
>one do you recommend?
I have used both of these yeasts. The #3056 needs to be fresh to give you
any Weizen-like cloveyness. The #3068 gives both banana and clove... the
warmer you ferment, the more the balance swings towards the banana. If you
like Pschorr-Brau's Weizen, you want the #3068. If you want something less
banana-full, like Tucher Weizen, get some fresh #3056 (maybe a problem in
Tasmania?).
Al.
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korzonas at lucent.com
Return to table of contents
From: bill-giffin at juno.com (Bill Giffin)
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 13:21:16 cst
Subject: Vienna and Munich Malt
>>> Don Trotter said:
I have referred to before, in the 1995 Special issue of Zymurgy. There
is also an article on Malt. If my memory serves me correctly, Vienna
still has some diastatic power, while Munich is low or nil, however, I
don't use only Vienna or Munich for the reason you stated, and also a
second reason. Using those malts solely will result in a new style of
beer, or one that I haven't yet found a profile for.
<<<
The above is totally incorrect! both German Vienna Munich malts have
enough enzymes to convert themselves as well as a small percentage of
adjuncts.
Yes if you use Vienna by itself you will have a totally different beer a
Vienna. It seems like I have seen that somewhere before. George Fix
wrote a book about that style. Gee if i use all Munich malt I would get
a Munich or perhaps a dunkle if I added a touch of dark malts. Wild and
crazy new styles.
I have brewed a beer with all Briess Munich malt and it did just fine.
There were enough enzymes to convert. But as this grain was six row there
is a lot of husk material and a bit of astringency.
About SPAMM much is more interesting then the crap about avoiding SPAMM.
Open mouth insert foot,
Bill
Return to table of contents
From: M257876 at sl1001.mdc.com (BAYEROSPACE)
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 12:39 -0600
Subject: aeration, oxygenation, oxidation
collective homebrew conscience:
SM wrote (sorry, didn't catch the name):
>This is coming from a malt extract brewer who is trying to figure out
>how to move to all-grain. When you transfer from your boil kettle to
>your Gott cooler, is HSA really a concern?
i think it is. others don't think so. we need an A/B comparison this fall,
i believe. certainly if you think hsa is an issue, you should be careful
when moving hot mash/wort to prevent excessive aeration. if you don't think
it's an issue, relax etc. (but wait 6 months and try your beer)
> Aren't you going to lauter
>out your wort, and then re-boil and add hops?
yes, but once melanoidins are oxidized, they can't be "un"-oxidized. boiling
de-oxygenates the wort, but it doesn't "un"-oxidize melanoidins. somebody
with a chemistry degree, jump in here.
unoxidized melanoidins can be beneficial later, after fermentation, in
preserving the stability of your beer, by helping to prevent oxidized flavors
that result from post fermentative handling (aeration during bottling, etc.)
a very recent issue contained a submission that covered this particular point
exceptionally well.
>Jim Busch wrote:
>>The pale malt must be pretty dark if its to be red at only 1.044.
>>I would add a touch of caramel 40. A little flaked barley will also
>>increase the head if thats desired.
i've noticed that a small amount of roasted barley can contribute to a red
color in finished beer, also.
the hsa topic, again:
<what would happen if you> waited until "primary" fermentation had slowed
>down to a crawl or apparent
>end and then siphoned into a corney for further fermentation, then force
>"oxygenated" the keg with an O2 tank instead of a CO2 tank? After an
>appropriate time for O2 absorption, the pressure could be released and an
>airlock (tube into water filled milk jug-type) affixed. Cold beer/wort
>means no HSA. Would the resulting yeast activation percolate out any
>oxygenation taste/staling effect, and yield a fully fermented and tasty
>high alc. brew (assuming the strain of yeast can take high ABV)? Thoughts?
i think i remember reading that some breweries do this (oxygenate wort while
it's fermenting) for high gravity styles. but they may be doing it very early
in the ferment, to get the yeast off to a bigger start. the above seems risky
to me since you may overshoot by a large amount and end up with a lot of free
dissolved oxygen in the beer. this is roughly the equivalent of aerating the
beer after fermentation.
what would the yeast use the oxygen for at a late stage of fermentation? i
thought the reason yeast needs oxygen before fermentation is for reproduction.
if your cell count is high enough, what other use for oxygen is there? do
you need reproduction no matter what the cell count for a healthy ferment?
are "younger" yeasts more vigorous? would introducing oxygen very late in
a high gravity beer produce more "young" yeast cells and invigorate the
ferment? do the yeast sense the sudden change in oxygen level and immediately
start reproducing again at such a late stage in the ferment?
the hot side isn't the only place you want to avoid aeration. aerating beer
post ferment during racking or bottling can lead to oxidized flavors and more
rapid staling.
brew hard,
mark bayer
Return to table of contents