Homebrew Digest Thursday, 3 October 1996 Number 2213
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FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Mike Donald, Digest Janitor-in-training
Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!
Contents:
Scottish ale recipe request ("Richard R. Cox")
Lambic on draught in NYC (Alex Santic)
malts 2-row/6-row (Steve Alexander)
[none] (postmaster at swpe06.sw.lucent.com)
Re: What are PPBT Judging "qualifications"? (hollen at vigra.com)
CO2 / Rye (Darrin Pertschi)
Is it okay to re-pitch Nottingham yeast? (Gregory King)
Wax like film?? ("KEVIN FONS Q/T MFG X7814 )
Cleaning New RIMS (Jim Elden)
Re:GABF (Kelly Jones)
Aeration filter sanitation ((Nicholas Dahl))
Coleman 10 gallon coolers (jim_robinson at ccmailsmtp.ast.com)
pale malt/protein rests/Cascades/"leaf" hops/"teabag" mash/airstones (korz at xnet.com)
Olympia ((steve shaw))
Rye beers/GABF judges/Greasy airlock ("Gregory, Guy J.")
rye yeast ((beerdogs))
"Brew ware" anyone read this book? ("Patrick Dominick")
GABF Judging: Why? ("Martin Lodahl")
Choreboy ("David R. Burley")
Re: Re-using Yeast, Berliner Weisse, Bakers malt, ("David R. Burley")
Re: GABF entries (Derek Lyons)
Cider (Tim.Watkins at analog.com)
Lautering Rye / Filtering Air ((George De Piro))
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Richard R. Cox" <cox at fortnet.org>
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 12:39:38 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Scottish ale recipe request
I'd like to try making my first Scottish ale and wondered if anyone had a
favorite all-grain recipe to suggest. I'm looking for something with a
big, malty character.
Thanks!
Return to table of contents
From: Alex Santic <alex at brainlink.com>
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 15:03:34 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Lambic on draught in NYC
The lambic thread inspired me to mention this...
For those of you in the vicinity of NYC, there's a place called Gingerman
on 36th Street between 5th Ave and Madison Ave that has Boon Kriek on
draught. Perhaps this isn't such an unusual thing, but I haven't
encountered it elsewhere so it struck me as pretty special. This brew is
absolutely sublime. Those of you who like lambics but have only had them
in bottled form would be very pleased, I think.
Alex Santic
Return to table of contents
From: Steve Alexander <stevea at clv.mcd.mot.com>
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 15:19:46 -0400
Subject: malts 2-row/6-row
Yesterday my malevolent twin wrote ...
>Regarding choice of malts, I've noticed that M&F makes (almost?) all
>their malt, except the 2-row pale or lager malt from 6-row barley.
Big whoops - I should have been Breiss, not M&F.
to reiterate ... excluding pale 2-rows malts ...
Breiss is 6-row, Schreier seems to be 6-row and M&F crystal tastes
better to me and may be 2-row.
Steve Alexander
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Homebrew Digest Wednesday, 2 October 1996 Number 2211
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Mike Donald, Digest Janitor-in-training
Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!
Contents:
RE: High-pH Brewing Water (John Wilkinson)
Re:My First Taste of Lambic: WOW!! (John.E.Carsten at oklaosf.state.ok.us)
Re: Rye Beer (Steve Alexander)
CPBF/grains ("Bryan L. Gros")
Re: Roggen yeast choice ... (Steve Alexander)
Re: stretching yeast (Jeremy Bergsman)
Re: GABF PPBT (Kelly Jones)
malts - 6-row vs 2-row (Steve Alexander)
Steeping grains: something to ponder ((George De Piro))
reusing yeast, good web pages ("Taber, Bruce")
malts/protein rests (Steve Alexander)
Re: GABF Judging (Glenn Colon-Bonet)
Starter (Jorge Blasig - IQ)
Popcorn, NY (DC at carlsonco.com)
re: stretching yeast ((Bruce Eckert / x3388))
lambics/rye/DMS/protein rests/beer fridges/how NOT to sanitize air!
(korz at xnet.com)
Kegs and Olympia (HuskerRed at aol.com)
re: Spigots and Enamel Pots (PVanslyke at aol.com)
DMS from malts... ("Pat Babcock")
Return to table of contents
From: hollen at vigra.com
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 96 13:28:11 PDT
Subject: Re: What are PPBT Judging "qualifications"?
>> David C Harsh writes:
DCH> Glenn Colon-Bonet <gcb at hpesgcb.fc.hp.com> writes in #2211:
>> (prospective members of) the panel ...are asked to submit
>> a JUDGING resume and 3 letters of recommendation as to their JUDGING
>> qualifications from people in the industry. This information is reviewed
>> by the festival staff and the most qualified people are chosen.
DCH> People have questioned the qualifications of the PPBT judges and
DCH> the only responses are assurances that we have a highly qualified
DCH> panel of specially selected experts. The collective understands
DCH> technical beer talk - explain to us who the judges are. Not by
DCH> names, but maybe a breakdown of their occupations as to why these
DCH> "professionals" are so wonderfully qualified.
DCH> So, define the word "qualified" for us. We're listening.
As far as Homebrew Club competitions are concerned, the majority of
them have BJCP qualified judges, which are *real* qualifications. The
BJCP qualifies that one can pass both a written and and a beer
evaluation test with minimum score and does not advance in rank
without additional higher test scores *and* experience points. Being
a BJCP qualified judge is a *meaningful* qualification.
Do the "professionals" have equally as thorough of a qualification
process as the BJCP certification, or can you qualify merely because
you make money from brewing or selling beer?
dion
- --
Dion Hollenbeck (619)597-7080x164 Email: hollen at vigra.com
Sr. Software Engineer - Vigra Div. of Visicom Labs San Diego, California
Return to table of contents
From: Darrin Pertschi <darrinp at cowles.com>
Date: Wed, 02 Oct 1996 16:45:49 -0400
Subject: CO2 / Rye
I'd like to start using my CO2 to purg my hop storage jars (among other
things I read about here).I don't know about anyone else, but my Corny
gas-in disconnect has some pretty tough barbs on it. Even when I loosen the
hose clamps I gotta tug like all hell to get the hose off that thing. Being
such
a PITA that it is I rarely do it. So how is everyone else easily pulling their
gas hose off the keg conects?
Does anyone have any suggestions for brewing extract/specialty grain rye
beer?
TIA,
Darrin from Central PA
(Proprietor: Simpleton's Cosmic Brewery)
- ------------------------------------------------
You never know just how you look through other peoples eyes. <B.H.S.>
Return to table of contents
From: Gregory King <GKING at ARSERRC.Gov>
Date: Wed, 02 Oct 1996 16:55:18 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Is it okay to re-pitch Nottingham yeast?
Dear HBD Collective,
When liquid yeasts are used, it's fairly common practice to save the yeast
cake from one batch of beer and pitch it in a subsequent batch. I was won-
dering if it's also okay to do this when a dried, reconstituted yeast (such
as Nottingham) is used.
I know that there were concerns in the past about the purity of the yeasts
offered in dried form. Is this still an issue?
It's not that I'm a cheapskate, it's just that I hate to see a big, healthy
colony of good yeast go to waste for no reason.
Thanks in advance (that's "TIA" for those of you who only understand acro-
nyms) for all feedback.
Greg King
gking at arserrc.gov
Philadelphia, PA
Return to table of contents
From: "KEVIN FONS Q/T MFG X7814 <KFONS at QTIWORLD.COM>" <KFONS at qtiworld.com>
Date: Wed, 02 Oct 1996 16:10:17 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Wax like film??
I recently brewed a extract/specialty grain stout. When I racked it to the
secondary I noticed a waxy looking whitish film over the top of the beer. Now
that it has been in the secondary for a few days, it is still there. The beer
did not taste strange when I racked it. I did use flaked barley and flaked
wheat in this batch (steeped with my specialty grains). What could this be?
Any chance of it going away?
Kevin
===========================================================================
Kevin Fons <kfons at qgraph.com> or <kfons at qtiworld.com>
Industrial/Systems Engineer Quad/Tech International
N64 W23110 Main Street Div. of Quad/Graphics Inc.
Sussex, Wisconsin 53089 USA "Worldwide Sales, Worldwide Support"
Phone: (414)246-7814 FAX: (414)246-5160
===========================================================================
Standard disclaimer applies...
Return to table of contents
From: Jim Elden <elden at accumedic.com>
Date: Wed, 02 Oct 1996 17:33:29 -0400
Subject: Cleaning New RIMS
Hello all,
Now that the RIMS that I have been building for
what seems like forever is nearly operational, I'd
like to give it a good cleaning before the first
use. We're talking about flux from soldering
(lead-free of course), any manufacturing oils
from parts, kegs that sat outside all year,
some not-quite-new pieces of copper pipe, etc.
I was thinking of giving the kegs a good scrub with
some green pads and then running some vinegar &
peroxide through the system, then boiling water.
Finally, sanitizing w/ bleach and brewing.
Any suggestions on technique, chemicals, etc?
By the way, there are several of you reading this
who have helped this project greatly. Thank you
very much. We couldn't have done it without you.
Jim
Soon to be,
Riptide Brewery
Long Beach, NY
Return to table of contents
From: Kelly Jones <kejones at ptdcs2.intel.com>
Date: Wed, 02 Oct 1996 14:49:00 -0700
Subject: Re:GABF
Mark Stevens wrote:
> I can understand wanting to withhold awards for beers that
> are poor examples of a style, or for beers that are
> flawed, but I have always assumed that the role of a judge
> should be to find winners
No! winners are BREWED, not "found"! ;)
In general, I think it's a very honorable thing to NOT award medals if none
of the entrants are good enough. True, you would think that out of 83
entries by professional brewers, at least 3 outstanding beers would be
present, so Mark may have a point in some of these instances. However, just
being better than any others entered shouldn't be enough to get you a medal
if your beer still isn't an outstanding example of style.
Kelly
Hillsboro, OR
Return to table of contents
From: ndd3 at psu.edu (Nicholas Dahl)
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 18:33:31 -0500
Subject: Aeration filter sanitation
In HBD #2212 Bod Sutton writes:
"Most importantly, the air itself should
be free of competing microorganisms. The
most positive way to achieve this is to
use a 0.2 micron (absolute rating)
inline filter (don't forget to sanitize
the filter)."
When I bought my 0.22 micron inline air filter from Heartland Hydroponics,
the person I talked to on the phone said absolutely do NOT run water
through the filter, because liquids were too big to pass through the
hydrophobic membrane. My question is, given the admonition I recently
received, how does one sanitize the inline filter?
Truth in brewing,
Nick
Return to table of contents
From: jim_robinson at ccmailsmtp.ast.com
Date: Wed, 02 Oct 96 15:40:08 PST
Subject: Coleman 10 gallon coolers
Erik Larson asks about using the Coleman 10 gallon rectangular
cooler for mashing. I've used mine for 3 years and it's still
working great. To make a false bottom do the following. Go to
the cooking section of any department store and get the
perforated cooking sheet. It has a ridge around it so you need
to pound it flat. Make a template of the cooler bottom and cut
the pan bottom to fit. drill extra holes on the sides as the
cooler bottom is slightly larger than the hole grid on the pan.
Go to your local hardware store and get a handy little item
called a standoff screw. Attach a standoff screw to each corner
and you'll get about 1 1/2 ullage space at the bottom. I also
attached one in the middle, POINTING UP, which helps you lift the
false bottom in and out. If you need any more questions answered
just send me an e-mail at jim.robinson at ast.com.
Good luck!
Jim Robinson
Orange County Ca
Return to table of contents
From: korz at xnet.com
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 18:04:42 -0500
Subject: pale malt/protein rests/Cascades/"leaf" hops/"teabag" mash/airstones
Dave writes:
>Pale Ale Malt is a British malt that is highly converted,and low in protein
>and in enzymes due to its relatively higher drying temperature...
I pretty much agree except that the lower protein level is mostly because
the malt is more modified -- i.e. more of the protein has been converted
to amino acids during malting. Higher drying temperatures are not going
to change the protein content of the malt.
>Pale Malt is a continental or american malt of which lager malt is a subset.
>Lager malt is the least converted of the malts, has a higher enzyme content
>and should be given a protein rest.
I really think that associating "Pale Malt" with lager malt is a recent
one. Until a week ago (in our beta amylase discussion group), I have never
heard anyone refer to "Pale Malt" unless they were simply referring to
all pale malted barley (Pale Ale malt, Lager malt, Pils malt, etc.). I
suggest we don't need this new association to confuse new homebrewers.
As far as I've read and based upon the homebrewing supply wholesalers I
work with, "Lager Malt" and "Pilsner Malt" are used interchangably and
refer to a simple, pale-coloured malted barley that is kilned cooler than
Pale Ale malt. From what I recall, there is no definite correlation
between protein levels and differnt types of malt. The only correlation
I have seen is that 6-row is higher protein than 2-row, but this is
correlated to the type of base barley and not the malt type that is made
from it.
As I have recently posted, most modern malts don't need a protein rest.
***
Dave also writes:
>Put in some finishing hops, say
>cascades if you are making an American Lager
I have tasted but one American Lager that had noticeable Cascade character.
It was interesting, but not what I would call "conventional." It's not
that it is wrong to use Cascades, I just don't want anyone getting the
idea that Cascades are typically the hop of choice for American Lagers.
Perhaps Dave meant to say "Amercian Ales." If this is the case, then,
yes, Cascades are a very popular hop used in many, many American Ales
and have a distinctive "grapefruit" aroma and favour.
***
Dave writes:
>If you use whole leaf hops,
(I guess this is pick on Dave day ;^). "Leaf hops" are a misnomer. You
use the hop flowers for brewing, not the leaves.
***
Ken writes:
>Many grains can be simply steeped in the brewing water while you're waiting
>for it to boil. Some worthwhile grains are: roasted grains (especially
>chocolate) to add color and a roast character, crystal malts to add sweetness
>and body (40L is a good all-around choice), toasted malts like Victory or
>"Biscuit" (to add a "toasty" character -- roasting pale malt for 20 min at
>350F makes a serviceable homemade version), and Munich and "Aromatic" malts
>(for added maltiness). 1/4 to 1/2 lb of smoked malt (like Hugh Baird Peated)
>will add a unique subtle smokiness without completely overpowering the brew,
>but be sure that's what you want before you use it.
I agree with chocolate malt, black patent, roasted barley and crystal malts.
I disagree that you can simply steep any of the other malts mentioned.
Victory, Biscuit, roasted pale malt (Pale Ale, Pilsner or Lager), Munich,
Aromatic or any of the currently available smoked malts MUST be mashed or
you will get a starch haze in your beer. "Steeping" just doesn't do it.
Later in his post, Ken describes a sort of mashing in the brewing water
at 150 to 160F, but it is important to note that if you steep a pound
of Pale Ale malt (for example) in 2.5 gallons of water, your pH is bound
to be well over 6 and you will extract a lot of tannins from the husks.
Furthermore, the enzymes are in the liquid part of the mash and if they
are diluted as much as they would be in a "teabag" mash, not only would
conversion take much longer than with a normal-thickness mash, but enyzyme
stability would probably be compromised severely.
Many have suggested (as Ken has) that you can mash grains as if they were
tea in a big teabag, but I try to discourage this method. Lautering
involves the recirculation of the runnings till they are relatively clear
and the amount of water per pound of grist is completely different. These
two differences are why you are at a high risk for starch haze and tannin
extraction with this "teabag" method.
***
Jeff asks about sanitizing airstones.
I suggest getting a Stainless Steel one (I know Liquid Bread has them
and I believe that Brewer's Resource does too). I replaced the PVC
tubing with silicone (McMaster-Carr) and toss the stone and hose in the
last 15 min of the boil. Don't try this with PVC tubing. It MIGHT work
with HDPE tubing (that milky white tubing made for water lines at the
hardware store), but it's only good to about 200F, so test it out on
boiling water and maybe use a hose clamp to keep it on the tubing when
it's really soft. Silicone is good to 500F.
Al.
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz at xnet.com
Return to table of contents
From: sshaw at tscnet.com (steve shaw)
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 16:14:35 -0700
Subject: Olympia
Jason Henning asked in HBD 2211 about brewpubs in Olympia.
Check out Fish Brewing they have a great dry hopped IPA. Look up the head
brewer Tom Chase he will know more about the 'meat and potatoes' you are
looking for.
Steve Shaw
Head Brewer and Chief Taste Tester
Chico Bay pico Brewery
Return to table of contents
From: "Gregory, Guy J." <GGRE461 at ecy.wa.gov>
Date: Wed, 02 Oct 96 16:03:00 PDT
Subject: Rye beers/GABF judges/Greasy airlock
On the recent rye thread:
For my taste, after about 20 rye beers, between 15-25% of the grain bill as
rye adds a great character to a fairly standard ESB/Pale Ale/IPA recipe. It
certainly is not a "recognized style", but the astringent character of rye
is mighty darn refreshing. Redhook lately produces a rye...give it a try.
One poster indicated that flakes impart less rye character than grain, on
what I assume is a pound per pound basis. My experience is exactly
opposite. Guess I'll have to brew two similar batches and try....Bummer.
Also, it will stick, and will slow your lauter, but if you know that up
front, it's no big deal. If you use a zapap, you'll probably notice, if you
use a phils or another alternative like easymasher or a drain, you might
not. I tend to hop the whatnots outa my rye beer, and it becomes a dry and
hoppy delight. You oughta too. That way, maybe my neighbors will drink
your beer, and leave some of mine for me.
On GABF judging:
Hey, these guys were qualified enough to choose ol'Jethro's barleywine,
were'nt they? Works for me....Great beer, Jethro....and just cause they
chose coors, I guess I'll buy a six and drink it until my homebrew is ready.
Budweiser always wins something too, and I think it comes from diabetic
clydesdales. If you don't like the GABF judges, and their reasonably
legitimate criteria outlined in previous posts, don't enter. If no one
enters, it won't be much of a festival, and I bet they know that. That's why
it is as legitimate as it is, and why some pretty nice folks work pretty
hard making it better each year. I'm the only thing in america which cannot
stand improvement in 1996.
Congrats, Jethro. If I ever get back to Manhattan, I'll stop by for a brew.
On someone's recent airlock leak:
Yeah, I had a leaky airlock in the secondary, no activity, beer too sweet,
jeez. I remembered a tip about keglubing the airlock/stopper (was that Pat
Babcock?), and I did it. Well, Pat, we're back in bidness and my ruin is
not beered. It works ( no financial interest, just a cussed satisfier,
etc.).
Also, has anyone noticed that folks are speaking rather highly on this forum
of Jack Schmidling? Where are those Jack-Whackers of old?
Guy Gregory
GuyG4 at aol.com
Lightning Creek Home Brewing
Return to table of contents
From: beerdogs at cyclops.dcache.net (beerdogs)
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 20:33:32 -0500
Subject: rye yeast
i want to do a rye stout and i want to harness some of the ferulic acid in
the rye and have some clove notes. However, i do not want this to be as
strong as a typical weissen bier. what is a good yeast for this? i've
been thinking about wyeasts bavarian yeast because it speaks about mild
ester production.
does anybody have any suggestions?
cheers,
Sara&Rod
***blessed is the woman who gives birth to a brewer***
-inscription outside of Pilsner Urquel, Czechoslovokia
Return to table of contents
From: "Patrick Dominick" <p-dominick at adfa.oz.au>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 10:55:20 +1000
Subject: "Brew ware" anyone read this book?
Brewsters
Just a quick question to see if anyone has read, and can recommend,
the book:
Brew Ware : How to Find, Adapt, & Build Homebrewing Equipment
by Karl F. Lutzen , Mark Stevens , Randy Mosher (Illustrator)
Paperback, Published by Storey Communications
Comments anyone?
private e-mail is fine thanks.
Patrick Dominick
Return to table of contents
From: "Martin Lodahl" <lodahl at foothill.net>
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 18:14:17 -0700
Subject: GABF Judging: Why?
In Homebrew Digest #2212, Mark Stevens joins one of brewing's oldest
arguments:
> I can understand wanting to withhold awards for beers that
> are poor examples of a style, or for beers that are
> flawed, but I have always assumed that the role of a judge
> should be to find winners, not insult entrants by saying,
> "None of you are good enough." With the high number of
> unawarded medals, I think it's fairly clear that too many
> of the judges have more respect for themselves than for
> the many hard-working brewers standing behind each beer.
Check your assumptions. If the role of the judge is just to find winners,
why hold the competition at all? Is the purpose of the competition
is to advance the craft of brewing by recognizing excellence, or to give
a few breweries a marketing advantage?
> The fruit beer category is, I think, a VERY serious problem.
> There were 83 entries in the category, making it the 2nd
> largest at the festival. Yet from all those commercially-
> brewed beers, the judges could not find three medal
> contenders?? I find it hard to believe. No, I find it
> impossible to believe.
Having judged commercial competitions, I don't find it in the
least bit surprising.
> I hate to be overly critical of judges, most of whom work
> very hard to do a good job. Unfortunately, in a loosely-
> defined style like fruit beer, judges cannot easily fall
> back on "oh, they're poor examples of the style" without
> sounding like fools. Especially when these are *ALL*
> professionally brewed beers. Especially when there are
> 83 to choose from. Wow! 83. What *COULD* the judges be
> thinking???
My opinion: Homebrew competitions and commercial competitions
are fundamentally different animals, with fundamentally different purposes.
A homebrew competition is to help the brewers entering the competition
develop their skills through useful feedback, and to encourage them to do
so by recognizing the best efforts. Relatively narrowly-defined styles are
the standards their success is judged against. A commercial competition
assumes that the brewers already know what they're doing, and tries to
encourage excellence in the craft as a whole by recognizing outstanding
results. In that context, styles should be far less rigidly interpreted;
my
own standard is whether the beer can broadly be said to meet the general
expectations commonly understood to be implied by the name the brewer's
given it. The main criteria should be, in my view, if the beer is
well-made
and drinkable. Yes, this is a far more subjective view -- unless the
brewer
helps you out by entering seriously flawed beer. In a recent commercial
competition, 14 of the 21 entries in one category I judged were seriously
infected or had other egregious flaws. Yes, two-thirds, in a competition
only the breweries could enter, where the beer was received at the coldbox
and kept chilled until judging. I've often heard commercial brewers on
panels like that express surprise that brewers are accepting money for
such beers, and customers are paying it. I'm sure breweries take a little
more care for the GABF, but similarly, I see no reason why the judges
shouldn't expect them to. That the judges refused to be intimidated or
okey-doked into awarding unearned medals is the best thing I've heard
about this competition so far.
- Martin
- --
Martin Lodahl of Auburn, California
lodahl at foothill.net
Beer Brewer, Judge and Writer
Winner of the Quill & Tankard Award
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From: "David R. Burley" <103164.3202 at CompuServe.COM>
Date: 02 Oct 96 21:59:44 EDT
Subject: Choreboy
Brewsters:
I sometmes forget we are an international group and US trademarked products
don't mean much in many cases. I recently got an inquiry about what I meant by
"Choreboy" in a couple of my notes.
Here was my response:
Boy, you need to spend more time in the kitchen doing your chores!
A Choreboy (R) is a metal scrubber like steel wool except it is made from metal
turnings which are wider. It typically comes in copper or stainless steel. It
comes soaped or unsoaped. In our case it is used as a strainer so the hops and
the hot break trub ( which is filtered by the hops) won't pass over into the
fermentation vessel along with the clarified wort.
Procedure is to put the bottom end of the racking cane ( a piece of 3/8 inch
copper or SS, or plastic or whatever tubing, for example) by shoving the cane
inside the Choreboy. Try to place the end of the cane in the center of the
Choreboy, wire it in place with a piece of heavy copper wire ( like #12 or #10
)
or strong cotton string. Swirl the boiled wort with a sterile spoon until a
small depression forms in the liquid ( called whirlpooling). Allow it to stand
about 5 or ten minutes to settle so the hops and trub form a pile in the middle
of the boiler. Place the racking cane near the bottom edge and start your
siphon. The wort will come over virtually free of hops or trub and most
importantly you have not unnecessarily aerated your wort, especially if it is
hot.
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Keep on brewin'
Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3203 at compuserve.com
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From: "David R. Burley" <103164.3202 at CompuServe.COM>
Date: 02 Oct 96 23:51:35 EDT
Subject: Re: Re-using Yeast, Berliner Weisse, Bakers malt,
Brewsters:
Anton Schoenbacher says:
>I was wondering if there was a way I can
> get maybe 5-10 batches of yeast out of one $5.00 wyeast
> package. I have heard stuff about yeast culturing and
> some of it seems to be way out in left field for me.
Simple doesn't always work if you leave a long time between uses, but here's
how
I do it and have for years. The cleanest and the spot with the most good yeast
and least junk is your secondary. After I bottle or keg, I leave only a few
ounces of beer in the bottom. I swirl this to loosen the yeast deposit and
clean the neck of the carboy and pour the slurry into a 12 oz beer bottle which
has been sterilized with bleach and rinsed with three rinses of boiling water,
likewise the funnel. Cap immediately and place in the fridge. When you want to
use it, pop the top and pour only the slurry portion into a waiting solution
made up of hopped wort extract ( 1/4 cup approx) in 1 pint of water. Boil for 1
minute uncovered until it foams up and resides, then boil gently with the lid
on for five minutes or so to sterilize the pan. Cool it without taking off the
lid. Add this to your starter bottle. Pour off the beer above the yeast slurry
and taste it. If it is OK, then the yeast are OK. Add the yeast slurry to the
starter bottle and stand back. You will have an active starter in about 12
hours or at least in 24.
If you want to wash up some yeast that are bacterially infected, wash them in a
solution of 30 ppm metabisulfite acidified with tartaric acid,followed by a
sterile (boiled, cool) water rinse. Allow them to settle for a few minutes
between washings, but don't be concerned if some of them get carried over in
the
rinse water. Place these washed yeast in a starter. I have used this many times
to freshen up a yeast. I think a lot of the talk about mutations etc. is really
just a simple bacterial infection.
Lager yeasts are the most difficult to keep, since they are marginally active
even near freezing. As a result they tend to autolyse. I would suggest you use
a yeast slurry made up in 10% glycerin and put this in the freezer. When it
comes time to awaken them, just put this slurry in a starter and allow it to
ferment for a few days until it is quiet and flocs. Pour off the starter beer
and prepare another starter. This will eliminate any concerns some have
expressed about glycerin. A far as I know, it is safe in small quantities.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Rust asks about Berliner Weisse. Take a look in Eric Warner's Book "German
Wheat Beer", Classic Beer Style Series #7 from Brewers Pubs. I doubt the
Germans put Acidophilus in their beers
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lenny from Rehoveth, Israel asks how to use his finely ground malt intended for
baking. Above all use a mash which will float the malt ( an OG of greater than
about 1.060) this will make the straining off easier 1) Try batch sparging in
which you pour the mash into a sparging solution and then decant. Repeat.to an
SG of 1.010 or so. Remember lots of small washes are better then one or two big
ones. 2) Use wheat or rice hulls mixed in with the mash at the end to prevent
laying down a solid bed if you try a conventional sparge. 3) use adjunct
grains,
to provide some looseness to the sparge. Let us know how it works.
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jorge Blasig writes about his starter not producing enough yeast. 1) don't
worry it will be OK 2) Once it starts bubbling, not much growth occurs because
all the oxygen is used up. Swirl your starter to mix in air and get CO2 out.
This will help 3) honey doesn't have much in the way of nutrients, so yeast
nutrients may be needed in the starter and the mead.
What happened to that beer you were brewing from baker's malt extract?
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Keep on brewin'
Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3203 at compuserve.com
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From: Derek Lyons <elde at hurricane.net>
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 23:45:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: GABF entries
At 01:27 PM 10/2/96 -0500, you wrote:
>Glenn Colon-Bonet <gcb at hpesgcb.fc.hp.com> writes:
>>
>>Rather than write off the judging as being inaccurate, consider that a lot
>>is involved in getting beers from around the country to Denver to be judged.
>>Some of the products may not travel well, or may not have been bottled in a
>>manner that they will stay fresh for the time before the judging begins.
>
>This is a good comment. I helped a local brewpub get their entries
>together. The bottled entries had to arrive about five weeks before the
>judging. (The kegs for serving had to be ready a couple weeks before
>that, at least here in Nashville). I brought my counter-pressure bottle
>filler to the pub and we filled and capped the entries which were Fed.
>Ex'd the next day. Shipping and bottling is probably a big variable that
>can't be equalized between breweries.
>
The bottled entries have to be there *FIVE WEEKS* before judging? Does the
GABF provide proper storage? Unless stored badly, all but the poorest
bottled beers should survive five weeks.
Sounds like the GABF is dodging again.
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From: Tim.Watkins at analog.com
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 96 8:57:43 EDT
Subject: Cider
When using the wild yeasts to ferment a cider, would it be better to
use an open fermentation, or a closed one with an airlock? I'm going to do
an experiment with different yeasts in some small batches to see which one
comes out best. I would think that a closed fermentation would be better,
to avoid other contaminants entering the must, but I thought I'd contact a
higher power (you folks) to get some input.
Tim
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From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com (George De Piro)
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 08:05:38 -0700
Subject: Lautering Rye / Filtering Air
I've noticed two people say that they have used substantial quantities
of rye with no lautering problems. As you have all read, this is NOT
my experience. I think I may know part of the reason.
My Roggen beer was double decocted. Contrary to what one might think,
decocted mashes have LESS structure than infusion mashes and are
therefore sometimes more difficult to lauter (they even look "mushier"
than infusion mashes).
Proteins are a large part of what gives a grain it's structural
support (along with cellulose), and decocting does a wonderful job of
breaking them down.
Perhaps decocting is not the way to go when homebrewing a rye beer!
-----------------------
About airstones and filtering air: I use a pump, the air gets pushed
through some dry cotton (to catch things like dog hair, etc.), and I
don't use an airstone.
Some people seem to have problems with airborne microbes (Al K. posted
his problem), but I never have, so I don't filter my air through a .2u
disk. I don't bother with an airstone because I'm too lazy to
maintain it. Sure, the bigger bubbles may take a bit longer to aerate
the wort, but I just turn the pump on and go about my business. It's
no big deal (for me) to let it run for an hour.
Just my experience, take it for what it's worth when deciding if
you're going to aerate with a pump or not.
Have fun!
George De Piro (Nyack, NY)
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