---

   FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
        Mike Donald, Digest Janitor-in-training
        Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!

Contents:
  Wish we could cancel posts... ((George De Piro))
  GABF festival judging (Dane Mosher)
  Kegging high-gravity beers / GABF medals (or lack thereof) ((George De Piro))
  kegging ((Tom Lochtefeld (Risk Mgt)))
  Miscellany ((Ed J. Basgall))
  GABF ((Bill Giffin))
  IPA Recipe Request/ Warm fe ("Craig Rode")
  hazelnut recipe ((Greg Moore - SMCC BOS Hardware Engineering))
  hop terminology ("Bryan L. Gros")
  Re; Subject: Starter (John.E.Carsten at oklaosf.state.ok.us)
  False Bottoms ((Tom Neary))
  Laaglander (Steven Ketcham)
  Filtering chill haze (Russ Brodeur)
  40-60-70 and attentuation (Russ Brodeur)
  Re: Lambics!! (Michael Caprara) ((Joe Formanek))
  .22 micron filters (Bob McCowan)
  Re: Aeration filter sanitation (Kelly Jones)
  re: Cider (initial fermentation) ((Dick Dunn))
  Yeast Package (Anton Schoenbacher)
  continental malt vs domestic ((BAYEROSPACE))
  Re: Leaf hops (Kelly Jones)
  Begginner wants partial mash (Anton Schoenbacher)
  What is Pale malt: (Jim Cave)
  Pushing Wort, HBD Web (krkoupa at ccmail2.PacBell.COM)
  Review of Brew Ware ("Palmer.John")
  seattle ("Jay Lubinsky")

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com (George De Piro)
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 08:55:57 -0700
Subject: Wish we could cancel posts...

     After re-reading Jeremy's rye post I realized that his mashing 
     schedule does boil the rye.  This may blow my theory (see earlier 
     post), but it may not.  If he boiled for only a short time, as opposed 
     to my double decoction, his mash would still have more structure, I 
     think. 
 
     I just don't know! 
 
     Sorry for the bandwidth used... 
 
     George De Piro (I need more sleep; 5 hours/night isn't cutting it!) 

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From: Dane Mosher <dmosher at xroadstx.com>
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 1996 08:23:49 -0500
Subject: GABF festival judging

Howdy beerethren, 
 
I wanted to put in my $.02 on the quality of the judging at the 
festival.  Although I can't claim to have tried all the medal winners, 
I can say that the medal winners I did try seemed worthy of the honor. 
On the other hand, I also believe that the quality of American 
microbrews as a whole still has a long way to go. 
 
I know I'm a picky bastard, but most of the beers I tried I didn't 
particularly enjoy.  For example, I was really looking forward to 
trying some Koelsches since this was their first year to be recognized 
as a separate style.  However I only found one that I didn't pour out 
before finishing.  I also noticed that the judges only saw fit to 
award a bronze medal in this category--no gold or silver.  I'm glad 
that some awards such as these were withheld because I don't think the 
judges should tell a microbrewery that their beer is superb when it 
clearly isn't.  How is beer going to improve in this country if we do 
nothing but pat each other on the backs? 
 
There were certainly some outstanding beers at the festival, but by no 
means were all of them so.  I applaud the PPBTers for trying to give 
credit when and only when it was due. 
 
Dane Mosher 
Big Spring, TX 
 
 

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From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com (George De Piro)
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 08:47:23 -0700
Subject: Kegging high-gravity beers / GABF medals (or lack thereof)

     Malty Bill asks about kegging his soon-to-be-made Imperial Stout.  His 
     main concern is that it may not develop the proper complexity if he 
     force carbonates rather than bottle conditions. 
 
     Why force carbonate?  Why not keg it and call it "cask conditioned 
     Imperial Stout?"  Just keg it before fermentation is done, or use your 
     favorite priming method. 
 
     It seems to me that the bigger problem is that kegged beer never seems 
     to last as long as bottled brew: "There's plenty left, I can have 
     another sample!"...4 hours later..."Hey, where'd all my beer go!  I 
     was saving that for the Pope's visit next year!" 
 
     -------------------- 
 
     Now for my opinion about the GABF medal awarding policy (if you're 
     sick of this stuff, PAGE DOWN NOW). 
 
     I can understand not awarding Gold medals (or even not awarding ANY 
     medals for an entire category).  These things are MARKETING DEVICES. 
     If the best fruit beer in the contest isn't great, I mean REALLY 
     GREAT, why should the brewer get to brag about a GABF medal? 
 
     At the AHA Nationals this year some very mediocre-scoring beers took 
     home gold medals (off the top of my head, I know that the gold-medal 
     Bock scored a 34).  Should a beer scoring that low take home a gold? 
     It was the highest scoring Bock, so maybe it should.  Homebrewing 
     awards aren't the same marketing tools that GABF medals are. 
 
     Unlike the AHA, the GABF is a measure of ABSOLUTE quality, not 
     RELATIVE quality.  If you're getting the right to call your beer the 
     BEST BEER IN AMERICA (blatant disregard for the TM), it had better be 
     DAMN GOOD by ALL standards, not just relative to the other competitors 
     that year. 
 
     And yes, pro brewers can make bad beer, too... 
 
     Forgive the ranting, sorry if it bored anyone. 
 
     Have a good time, all the time! 
 
     George De Piro  (Nyack, NY) 

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From: toml at fcmc.COM (Tom Lochtefeld (Risk Mgt))
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 96 09:52:36 EDT
Subject: kegging

I am thinking of kegging some homebrew in those 5 gallon soda kegs. 
 
Under pressure and refrigeration, how long does a tapped keg last 
before it loses taste or carbonation? or... does it last indefinitely? 
Does a keg have to be refrigerated and/or carbonated right after it is 
filled or can it be stored for a while? 
 
Has anyone had bad experiences with kegging? 
 
Can somesone refer me to publications or literature? 
 
Private e-mail OK 
 
Regards 
 
 
Tom 
 

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From: edb at chem.psu.edu (Ed J. Basgall)
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 10:03:56 -0400
Subject: Miscellany

Hi all, (Steve, Al, David, Charles, Wade, HBD collective) 
 
Just a quick note to let you know I haven't dropped off the 
face of the earth (yet).  I've been swamped at work and have barely had 
time to go through my email.  I wish I could participate in your expt. 
but I have too many other obligations at this time.  We just purchased a 
house and are putting on an addition.  The shortening daylight hours are 
working against me.  Central PA is starting to be filled with beautiful fall 
foliage and many wild mushrooms are up. 
 
I am also designing an experiment to satisfy myself and address the concerns 
about aeration of wort solutions.  Sterility of different setups and dissolved 
oxygen in particular.  I still can't conceive how bugs might be able to be 
transported through a 1/2" cotton plug in an airline. But without the empirica 
data I would be just blowing smoke. 
More on these issues as I consult with friends in the aquatic oxygen 
availability field.  Dissloved oxygen meters are only about $600.00. 
Sterile agar plates are much less $.  Once I get access to both, 
I'm all set to go.  I'll send out details on the expt'l setup once I have 
things written up.  Please feel free to comment, critique, flame.... 
 
cheers 
Ed Basgall 
SCUM 
(State College Underground Maltsters) 
University Park, PA 
 
 

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From: bill-giffin at juno.com (Bill Giffin)
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 10:13:25 cst
Subject: GABF

Top of the morning to ye all, 
 
Remember whose event the GABF is.  The AOB can run the event in any 
manner that they chose.  If they feel the need, as they obviously did, to 
give a bit of credibility to their judges by giving them a title well it 
is their thing. 
 
Bill 

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From: "Craig Rode" <craig.rode at sdrc.com>
Date: 3 Oct 1996 09:23:11 -0600
Subject: IPA Recipe Request/ Warm fe

If any of you hop heads have an idea of what the hop schedule would be for the 
current incarnation of Grant's IPA, I sure would be obliged if you would share 
it with me.  I can't quite place it. 
 
I have a problem with my latests pale ale.  It's essentially a SNPA clone, one 
that I have made with great success in the past.  The current batch 
tastes...well....lousy. Missing the hop nose I usually get, and sorta funky 
tasting.  The classic symptoms of infection, I know.  However, I believe my 
sanitation procedures to be fairly straightforward and reliable.  The only 
difference with this batch is that I started brewing earlier in the year than 
usual (despite Al K's warning) when it was still fairly warm in the basement. 
I think this fermented in an ambient temp of about 75-80F.  What are the taste 
symptoms of a beer fermented too warm? 
 
After a year of using a Corona, I just switched to a JSP MaltMill (TM).  I 
must say that it really does a fine job.  Do those of you that own one of 
these devices usually remove the fingerguards so more of the rollers are 
eating grain?  Also, I thought that the thing was guaranteed for life even if 
motorized, but the literature seems to indicate otherwise.  What's the deal? 
 
 
TIA 
 
Craig  (Milwaukee, WI) 
 

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From: gmoore at wacko.East.Sun.COM (Greg Moore - SMCC BOS Hardware Engineering)
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 10:22:06 -0400
Subject: hazelnut recipe

 
 
Well, ok - no one has the rogue hazelnut recipe.  I've heard that the 
longshot hazelnut was a bit heavy on the hazelnut extract.  Also 
heard that the recipe for the beer was on the bottom of the carton. 
Does anyone have the longshot recipe they can send me and I'll try to 
modify it to be closer to the rogue variety? 
 
Of course, I'll post it back to the group if I ever get it perfected. 
 
- -G 
 

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From: "Bryan L. Gros" <grosbl at ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu>
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 1996 09:24:37 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: hop terminology

> 
>Dave writes: 
>>If you use whole leaf hops, 
> 
>(I guess this is pick on Dave day ;^).  "Leaf hops" are a misnomer.  You 
>use the hop flowers for brewing, not the leaves. 
 
Al's comment is true.  But "leaf hops" is a common term, at least among 
the homebrewers that I know.  I've also heard "whole hops", "hop 
cones", and "hop flowers" used a lot.  I think they are all acceptable, 
all used a lot, and they all mean the same thing. 
 
Am I right? 
 
          - Bryan 
            grosbl at ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu 
            Nashville, TN 
 

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From: John.E.Carsten at oklaosf.state.ok.us
Date: 03 Oct 96 09:42:32 -0500
Subject: Re; Subject: Starter

Jorge Blasig says: "I think I have some problems with the starter (for his 
first batch of mead). 
I added three big spoons of honey to a pint of water and 1 tsp of yeast 
extract and boiled for 15 min. I put this wort in a 1 L bottle. When it 
was at around 25C, I added 2 tsp of previously re-hydrated yeasts and 
aereated it as much as possible and put the airlock to the bottle. 
There has been lots of bubbling since then (started immediately after the 
pitching) and during the last three days. However, the yeasts do not seem 
to grow as I think I need. I have a 1 cm sediment since the beginning but 
it does not seem to grow to 5 cm as I was suggested. I do not not whether 
this is enough for pitching a 25 L carboy or not. " 
 
My two cents (take this for what it's worth) I have limited mead making 
experience. 
But this is based on what I've made so far. 
 
He is making a starter from honey, which means he is essentially making a 
"mini batch" mead.  Due to the high gravity and fermentability of honey, most 
 meads take months or even years to ferment completely. 
 
This being considered, it is not surprising (to me) that very little of his 
yeast has settled 
to the bottom of his starter.  If it is actively fermenting, I would say that 
it is in prime condition 
to pitch into his must (that's wort, to you). 
 
The amount of sediment shouldn't matter at this point because there is likely 
quite a bit of 
yeast still in suspension. My suggestion would be to pitch the starter, open a 
homebrew, and 
let your mead rest in a warm dark place. 
 
Sorry for the bandwidth, But I hate for people to worry about their meads.  It 
musses your must. 
 
John 
Making Mead in the Hearland 

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From: thomas.neary at peri.com (Tom Neary)
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 10:43:57 -0400
Subject: False Bottoms

I am in the process of designing a multi-tier 3 converted keg brewing system. 
The false bottom that I have decided on is a perforated SS sheet.  But the 
problem I have is that I have seen two different styles in use. 
 
What are the pros & cons of using a 15" diameter perforated SS sheet which 
covers the entire circumfirence of the the keg and sits on short legs as 
opposed to an approximately 7" diameter sheet which sits flat on the bottom and
only covers the little depression in the bottom center of the keg.  Both false 
bottoms have an L-shaped tube which goes thru the center of the false bottom 
and thru the keg wall. 
 
The only thing I can think of is the amount of liquid which will sit under 
the grain bed during mashing, but I'm not sure if or why it would matter. 
It appears that all liquid will drain through the L-shaped tube. 
 
Any and all comments are greatly appreciated. 
 
TN 

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From: Steven Ketcham <ketcham at earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 08:09:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Laaglander

Hello! 
 
I just finished brewing an extract only beer. I was amazed at how good it 
was (we've all made comments like this before). I would like to know some of 
the data on it. Could someone give a stab at the SRM and the IBU's of the 
end product? I would like to try a whole grain recipe sometime in the future 
and I enjoyed the flavor of this one. 
 
One (1) four lb. can of Laaglander Irish Ale boiled for 15 min in two gal.s 
of water as per Papazian. 
One (1) cup of sugar added at fermenting and three fourths (3/4) cup of 
sugar at bottling. 
The total yield in the carboy was five (5) gallons (the recipe given called 
for four but my six year old daughter wasn't there to help count). 
 
Allowed to ferment for six days and age in the bottle for seven. The beer 
was a dark almost red color. It was really good! 
 
Thanks. 
 

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From: Russ Brodeur <r-brodeur at ds.mc.ti.com>
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 1996 11:12:29 -0400
Subject: Filtering chill haze

I am toying with the idea of filtering my beer.  I have kegs of both 
pils and Octoberfest which I brewed for a friend's O'fest celebration. 
Both have been lagering for 2 weeks now, and will be lagered an 
additional 2 weeks before consumption.  The pils is based primarily on 
DWC pils malt , plus 1 lb. Ireks Munich, and the O'fest is brewed from 
straight Ireks Munich malt.  Both are double-decoction mashed w/o a 
"protein" rest at 122F.  I use 140-45 F and 155-60 F rests for control 
of wort fermentability with mash-in at 105 F.  I sampled both brews last 
night and there was still a considerable amount of chill haze (more in 
the O'fest than the pils). 
 
Anyway, my lagering fridge is on its last legs and won't go below 40-45 
F.  So, I am not getting adequate flocculation of chill haze 
precipitates and would like to filter (so the beers "look" pretty at 
Octoberfest).  Any idea what pore-size filter to use??  I will be 
transferring from keg to keg under CO2 pressure, so it should be an easy 
thing to do. 
 
TTFN 
Russ Brodeur in Franklin, MA 

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From: Russ Brodeur <r-brodeur at ds.mc.ti.com>
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 1996 11:24:44 -0400
Subject: 40-60-70 and attentuation

It's been a couple of years since I last brought this up, but has anyone 
out there had any luck using this mash schedule (40-60-70 C), as 
initially proposed by G. Fix, to control fermentability in 
INFUSION-mashed beers??? 
I have found the 60:70 C rest-time ratio super effective for controlling 
attenuation in DECOCTION-mashed beers, but insignificant in 
infusion-mashed beers.  There is obviously something going on at 140 F 
in an infusion mash, because the wort begins to taste sweet, but my 
attenuation using a 30 min:30 min ratio have always been as though I'd 
used the 70 C rest only (ie.  poor attenuation). 
I'd like to hear what others have observed. 
 
TTFN 
Russ Brodeur in Franklin, MA 

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From: jformane at students.uiuc.edu (Joe Formanek)
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 10:30:26 +0800
Subject: Re: Lambics!! (Michael Caprara)

Lambics!! (Michael Caprara) said: 
 
>My advice is to get a separate racking cane and siphon hose for lambics 
>only.  Some of the bacteria cultures that you use can contaminate your 
>plastic.  Also, they stink BIG TIME, and you may not want to put a stinky, 
>white mold covered bacteria starter into your lambic, but JUST DO IT! 
>Ferment only in glass and clean thouroughly with bleach before using for 
>a "regular" beer. Finally, let it age, let it age, let it age, and then, let 
it
>age some more. Bottle at least 12 or so small bottles and try one a month for 
>a year, take good notes, and you will be amazed at how the lambic 
>changes. 
 
        What I have have attempted on some recent (last 4 mos. or so) 
lambics that I've made is to ferment in plastic. I noticed on some earlier 
attempts that I had a difficult time developing a nice pellicle of Pedio on 
the lambics in glass. Flavor stayed quite bland, and I used either Boon, 
Cantillion or Hanssens starters in them. 
         Figured that it might be a aeration problem--too little surface 
area in contact with oxygen right off the bat. so...I ran my wort chiller 
right into the open plastic fermenter and covered it with sanitized 
cheesecloth. Kept it like this for 4-5 days, then covered it and put in the 
airlock. Within a week it had developed the beginnings of a GREAT pellicle! 
This one is about 4 mos. old now, and it has developed some really nice 
acetic as well as Brettanomyces character. Just got to wait another year or 
so to really find out how it worked. 
        Has anyone else tried this method before? With what results? 
 
                                              Cheers! 
                                              Joe 
 
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// 
Joseph A. Formanek                      President, Boneyard Union of 
580 Bevier Hall                         Zymurgical Zealots (BUZZ) 
U of Ill--Urbana/Champaign              BUZZ - "When too much is not enough!" 
(217) 244-2879  (w)                     2nd Annual BUZZ Boneyard Brewoff 
(217) 351-7858  (h)                     7/20/96 - What a time it was!!!!!!!! 
Grad student, Professional and Home Brewer, BUZZ president.... 
Gad! What else can I get myself into????? 
Now on tap at "Joe's Brewery": "Academic Ale", and "German Alt" 
Now on tap at Joe's house: "Quicktime English Pale" and "Zippy Scottish Ale" 
Disclaimer: "No, I don't own the Brewery--just the house!!!" 
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ 
 
 

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From: Bob McCowan <bob.mccowan at bmd.cpii.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 11:25:35 -0400
Subject: .22 micron filters

>When I bought my 0.22 micron inline air filter from Heartland Hydroponics, 
>the person I talked to on the phone said absolutely do NOT run water 
>through the filter, because liquids were too big to pass through the 
>hydrophobic membrane.  My question is, given the admonition I recently 
>received, how does one sanitize the inline filter? 
> 
>Truth in brewing, 
> 
>Nick 
These things should be wrapped and sterile. 
 
Bob 
 
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Bob McCowan 
                                      voice:  (508)-922-6000 x208 
ATG/Receiver-Protector                fax:    (508)-922-8914 
CPI BMD 
Formerly Varian CF&RPP                e-mail: bob.mccowan at bmd.cpii.com or 
Beverly, MA  01915                            bob.mccowan at cfrp.varian.com 
 
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
 

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From: Kelly Jones <kejones at ptdcs2.intel.com>
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 1996 09:30:33 -0700
Subject: Re: Aeration filter sanitation

Nicholas Dahl wrote: 
 
> When I bought my 0.22 micron inline air filter from Heartland Hydroponics, 
> the person I talked to on the phone said absolutely do NOT run water 
> through the filter, because liquids were too big to pass through the 
> hydrophobic membrane. 
 
Folklore!  True, most of these filters are made from expanded PTFE, or 
Gore-Tex.  True, Gore-Tex won't pass loose water droplets freely.  That 
doesn't mean that liquids can't be forced through the filter with a little 
bit of pressure.  If you have the filter I'm thinking of, it was made to fit 
on the end of a syringe.  Try filling a syringe with sanitizer and squirting 
a few cc's through. 
 
Kelly 
Hillsboro, OR 

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From: rcd at raven.talisman.com (Dick Dunn)
Date: 3 Oct 96 10:26:41 MDT (Thu)
Subject: re: Cider (initial fermentation)

Tim.Watkins at analog.com wrote: 
>  When using the wild yeasts to ferment a cider, would it be better to 
> use an open fermentation, or a closed one with an airlock?... 
 
You don't want it truly "open" (unless you *really* like cider vinegar) - 
yes, contamination would be an issue.  A loosely-covered pail (the way some 
folks do primary fermentation of a beer) will work, but it's not the best. 
 
On the other side, if you're starting with good juice, perhaps fresh- 
pressed, it's likely not to have been filtered very much, if at all.  This 
means there's a lot of small solids that you've got to get rid of.  If you 
tried to start the fermentation with an airlock on (which I *don't* 
recommend) you'd need a bunch of headspace for safety. 
 
So the best arrangement is a blowoff, because that's the easy way to push 
the solids and crud out of the cider, during those first few days when the 
fermentation is really lively.  Fill your carboy fairly full, and use a 
real blowoff--a large tube, so it doesn't clog.  None of this half-inch 
tubing fitted to a stopper; use the largest tubing that will just fit 
inside the neck of the carboy. 
- --- 
Dick Dunn         rcd at talisman.com         Boulder County, Colorado  USA 
   ...Too bad about Boulder. 

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From: Anton Schoenbacher <aschoenb at eecs.wsu.edu>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 96 9:53:34 PDT
Subject: Yeast Package

I popped my wyeast package a couple of days ago and was 
wondering how long I could go before using it. 
 
I was going to brew and have changed my mind (no money) 
It was about an inch thick then I put it in my fridge 
yesterday. 
 
Should I dump it in some extract/water 'wort' to give it 
more food ? 
- -- 
*****Anton Schoenbacher*****aschoenb at eecs.wsu.edu***** 
****************************************************** 

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From: M257876 at sl1001.mdc.com (BAYEROSPACE)
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 11:58 -0600
Subject: continental malt vs domestic

collective homebrew conscience: 
 
jim layton wrote: 
 
 
>I use Am. 2-row malt (from Great Western) in most of my ales and I have never 
>experienced flavors that I could attribute to DMS. On the other hand, I've 
>used continental pils malts, from DWC and Durst,<snip>. In each of these 
>cases a pleasant flavor I believe to be due to DMS is present. I can detect 
>this same flavor in many commercial German beers (helles, helles bock, and 
>pils) and therefore I believe it to be appropriate in these styles. 
 
>My boiling and cooling techniques are consistent (90 min. boil, immersion 
>chill to pitching temp within 45 min). I cannot attribute this flavor to any 
>factor other than the malt. Does this experience match with that of others? 
>Is this flavor, which I can describe as smooth and grain-like but not really 
>"corny", due to DMS? 
 
 
i would say that what you're tasting is the difference between continental 
and domestic malt.  i see no reason for domestic 2 row pale (not pale ale, 
right?) to have less potential for dms than continental pils malts.  the 
kilnings for these malts would be similar, not as high as traditionally 
malted english pale ale malt.  just as with hops, you can't just bring a 
variety of barley over the ocean, put it in a different climate/soil, and 
expect it to thrive.  there are undoubtedley economic factors at play as 
well (yield/acre etc$$$) for the reasons we have different barley strains 
in n. america as compared to the malting barleys that originated in 
europe. 
 
by the way, in my previous post i mentioned "traditional english malting" 
and "exhaustive english malting procedure".  i didn't go into any detail on 
what i meant by that, but al k and steve alexander responded to clarify that 
what i was referring to was the greater modification that many pale ale 
malts get as compared to typical lager malt.  al k points out correctly that 
this is an idea that comes from the past when the malting methods really 
were quite different, and today the difference in modification is probably 
not that great between the pale ale and lager malts we have available. 
 
 
regarding the levels of nitrogen in modern barley (on the rise, according to 
al k),  i have a question as to how this affects our beer.  if the total 
protein levels are going up, do we need better modification and/or more 
exhaustive mashing schedules (i.e. protein rests) to compensate for this? 
is it the total protein that determines if we need a protein rest, or just 
the soluble/insoluble ratio?  what effects other than chill haze does excess 
big protein in the final beer cause?  are there any ill effects on the 
flavor?  are there potential stability problems for unpasteurized beer? 
 
 
which book is it that i have to get to answer these questions? 
 
brew hard, 
 
mark bayer 
 

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From: Kelly Jones <kejones at ptdcs2.intel.com>
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 1996 10:02:43 -0700
Subject: Re: Leaf hops

Al writes: 
> Dave writes: 
> >If you use whole leaf hops, 
> 
> (I guess this is pick on Dave day ;^).  "Leaf hops" are a misnomer.  You 
> use the hop flowers for brewing, not the leaves. 
 
Al:  "Leaf hops" is a term used by brewers, hop growers, and hop merchants 
to describe the hop product (strobiles) used in whole, unprocessed form, as 
opposed to pelletized, plugged, extracted, etc.  "Hop leaves" would describe 
the leaves of the hop plant, and you probably wouldn't want to use them as a 
substitue for "Leaf Hops". 
 
Kelly 
Hillsboro, OR 

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From: Anton Schoenbacher <aschoenb at eecs.wsu.edu>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 96 10:08:46 PDT
Subject: Begginner wants partial mash

I have never done a partial mash, I want to. 
 
Does anybody have a good relatively easy recipie 
to start with, along with some basic guidlines 
on what to do ? 
 
 
Thanks much 
- -- 
*****Anton Schoenbacher*****aschoenb at eecs.wsu.edu***** 
****************************************************** 

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From: Jim Cave <CAVE at PSC.ORG>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 10:16:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: What is Pale malt:

 Al Korzonas writes that we shouldn't be using the term "Pale malt" in 
reference to lager or pils malts.  This would cause unecessary confusion. 
Unfortunately, both Canada malting and Gambrinus refer to their products as 
"Pale Malt" and these are "lager type" malts.  Since Canada malting is the 
world's largest malting conglomerate, I think we need to advise people of the 
term "Pale Malt" and its designation. 
 
    Jim Cave 

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From: krkoupa at ccmail2.PacBell.COM
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 96 11:08:54 PST
Subject: Pushing Wort, HBD Web

Here are two "aha's" I wanted to pass on.  Or maybe they're 
"duh's"? 
 
1.  Filling converted kegs with a pump.  For space reasons I 
use a 2-tier system with a pump instead of a 3-tier system 
with all-gravity.  (Some day I hope to be an all-gravity 
brewer, but right now I use pump extracts.)  Previously, I 
had pumped the hot wort to the top of the keg and dropped it 
in from the top.  But when folks questioned me about HSA, I 
rethought the aerial top drop and started looking at the keg 
"exit".  My boil-kettle keg has a stainless steel welded 
coupling with a ball valve and quick connect fitting on the 
outside, ss false bottom on the inside.  So, I 
quick-connected the pump to the "exit" and pushed the wort 
into the boil kettle up from the bottom.  And it works!  I 
pushed 15+ gallons of liquid up 5 feet with the Little Giant 
/ Grainger 2P039 pump.  I partially close the ball valve on 
the keg to provide positive pressure on the output side of 
the pump, just like the external gate valve I had previously 
used from the top drop.  No splash, less equipment.  I also 
installed a foot-operated on/off switch for the pump, so I 
didn't have to plug/unplug it from house electricity while 
adjusting the ball valve.  Major convenience. 
 
2.  Hypertext, not e-mail.  I must have hit page down too 
many times ("... scroll down for crissakes" - J. Busch) ... 
I just stumbled into HBD on the internet ... and I don't 
remember anyone mentioning this before.  You mean I didn't 
have to receive HBD as e-mail files all this time?  I could 
just go to 
 
http://alpha.rollanet.org/hbd/HBD.html 
 
any time I felt like it?  And search for whatever topic I 
wanted to find?  OK, sometimes my lightbulb is slow to glow, 
but now I know the secret. 
 
Ken Koupal 
krkoupa at ccmail2.pacbell.com 
http://www3.pair.com/jgurney/one/brewnet.html 
 

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From: "Palmer.John" <palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com>
Date: 3 Oct 1996 11:19:47 U
Subject: Review of Brew Ware

Patrick Dominick asked if anyone had read Brew Ware. Yes, I have. I reviewed it
for the current Sept/Oct issue of Brewing Techniques. I will reprint the 
unedited version here. 
 
Brew Ware - 
How to Find, Adapt, and Build Homebrewing Equipment 
by 
Karl Lutzen and Mark Stevens. 
Storey Publishing, Pownal, Vermont, 1996 
300 pages 
 
 
Lutzen and Stevens, the authors of Homebrew Favorites - a collection of public 
domain recipes from the Internet, have done it again. Their latest effort is a 
compilation of the many homebrewing equipment and gadget ideas that have been 
discussed on the Internet over the past several years.  The book was written 
with the experienced brewer in mind, someone that has developed a need for 
gadgets to facilitate the brewing processes.  Logically, most of the material 
in the book is oriented to the grain brewer.  There are chapters devoted to 
discussing and building Grain Mills, Mash/Lauter Tuns and Kegging.  There are 
also chapters that deal with equipment used for growing and drying hops and 
yeast culturing; probably the first time these topics have been addressed from 
the equipment angle. 
 
The book is a bit awkward getting off the ground, though. The look and text on 
the cover conveys the impression that this book is for the beginner.  It is, 
but it's for the beginning gadgeter, not the beginning brewer.  Someone who 
picks up the book expecting to learn how to brew will be quickly overwelmed by 
the apparent need for lots of equipment.  This impression is not helped by the 
fact that the first chapter compares the homebrewing processes with commercial 
microbrewery processes and the second chapter is concerned with materials and 
processes for building a Three Tier, Gravity Fed All-Grain system.  The 
treatment of these topics is well done, it's just a matter of the reader's 
expections when getting into them. An experienced brewer, looking for ideas on 
how to build his all-grain brewing system will be right at home. 
 
The chapters proceed in much the same order as the brewing processes do. While 
this is logical for organizing an overall brewing system, it does not follow 
the normal learning curves for most brewers.  Presenting the equipement ideas 
that can be applied to extract and extract with specialty grain brewing first 
(ex. wort chilling, bottling), may have been a better way to arrange the 
comprehensive information this book presents. 
 
The individual gadget ideas that are presented in each chapter are easy to read
and well illustrated.  The illustrations of the various ideas are drawn by 
Randy Mosher, notable brewer and author of The Brewer's Companion. Many of the 
drawings are done in drafting style, showing the reader how the item is 
manufactured and assembled.  Ideas are laid out clearly, listing materials, 
parts, tools and assembly steps.  There is even a section in the back listing 
suppliers for commercial equipement and common parts as well as those hard to 
find items like food grade RIMS pumps. 
 
Lutzen and Stevens have brought together a lot of material for this book. They 
have contacted and quoted the original authors of some particularly notable 
ideas that were previously published to the Internet.  Likewise they have 
reviewed and compared notable commercial products when discussing grain mills, 
lautering and fermentation systems.  This book will be a welcome addition to 
the library of any brewer looking to learn new methods and facilitate their 
current processes. 
 
************** 
John Palmer - Metallurgist 
johnj at primenet.com 
Palmer House Brewery and Smithy - www.primenet.com/~johnj/ 
 

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From: "Jay Lubinsky" <j-lubins at govst.edu>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 13:45:17 GMT-6
Subject: seattle

Hi Brewers, 
I'll be taking my first trip to Seattle next month.  I know this is a 
land of great beer.  What are your recommendations of where to go for 
some of it? 
 
Thanks, 
Jay Lubinsky 
 
Private e-mail okay:  j-lubins at govst.edu 

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