---

   FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
        Mike Donald, Digest Janitor-in-training
        Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!

Contents:
  Blue Moon (Chris P Crigger)
  1968 in a stout (Brian Dulisse-1)
  Don't believe everything you read / sparge water pH ((George De Piro))
  RE: Brewing Chicha (Bill Ridgely 301-827-1391 FAX 301-827-3053)
  Re: Why are copper kettles used? (Carl Hattenburg)
  Copy of: Bleach, raw Wheat, persistent  positive iodine t*st, ("David R. Burley")
  Re: Why Wy1056 ?  (Scott Murman)
  Couscous Beer?? (Ken Sullivan)
  WTB 1.5" copper pipe ("Bridges, Scott")
  Hey, that was a hair, not a nit. (RUSt1d?)
  DATELINE DEAL ("Preston M W (Mike)")
  RE: Beer Filtering (Ken Sullivan)
  Filters/HopDevil (Jim Busch)
  Real Ale (John Wilkinson)
  RE:> favorite IPA ((Jeff))
  Red Wolf (Gregory King)
  filtering ((John W. Carpenter))
  pilsner urquell ((Ronald Moucka))
  Corona Mill vs. Maltmills (U18183 at UICVM.UIC.EDU)
  RE: SPARGE PH (Joe Rolfe)
  pH of sparge water (Peter Ensminger)
  Re: Applejack lager ((Tam Thompson))
  IPA, RIMS, etc. (Clint Weathers)
  Re: aged Barley Wines ("Thomas A. Wideman")
  Improved wort chiller hopefully. (Jzdial at aol.com)

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Chris P Crigger <chris_p.crigger at twva.med.navy.mil>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 13:17:29 -0500
Subject: Blue Moon

Is anyone familiar with the Blue Moon Brewing Co.?? 
They have a wonderful Belgian White, with just a hint 
of coriander. My question is this though: 
Is it the oats in that beer that give it it's crisp 
taste?? 
 
I have just started brewing with a small kit, and have had 
a couple of successes in my few "first attempts"! 
I am picking up tips from this list. 
 
thanks, 
Chris 

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From: Brian Dulisse-1 <Brian_Dulisse-1 at sbphrd.com>
Date: 10 Oct 96 12:26:42 EDT
Subject: 1968 in a stout

has anyone tried using the wyeast 1968 for a stout?  email please. 
 
thanks 
 
bd 
 
brian_dulisse-1 at sbphrd.com 
 

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From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com (George De Piro)
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 14:14:29 -0700
Subject: Don't believe everything you read / sparge water pH

     Hello! 
 
     John Varady says that Bass is an IPA.  This is what the label says, 
     but they, like many American brewers, seem to label beer however they 
     want, with no regard for traditional style guidelines! 
 
     Let your palate be the judge.  Bass is NOT an IPA, no matter what they 
     try to tell you on the label! (Neither is Oregon IPA an IPA, nor is 
     BBC's Cranberry Lambic even remotely related to lambic, nor do they 
     appear to use a true Bavarian Weizen yeast strain in their dark wheat, 
     etc.) 
 
     -------------------------------- 
 
     About sparge water pH adjustment:  sometimes I remember to acidify the 
     sparge water to around 6.0, sometimes I don't.  I haven't really 
     noticed a difference in the beer either way.  I think it's probably 
     more of a problem if you over sparge the grains without acidifying the 
     water.  In that case, you risk leaching tannins from the grains as the 
     grain bed's pH rises. 
 
     Simple answer: don't over sparge, and you won't need to acidify your 
     sparge water! 
 
     Have fun! 
 
     George De Piro  (Nyack, NY) 

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From: Bill Ridgely 301-827-1391 FAX 301-827-3053 <RIDGELY at A1.CBER.FDA.GOV>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 14:00:18 EST
Subject: RE: Brewing Chicha

In HBD #2224, Scott Kaczorowski posts about his chicha brewing 
experiments. It's good to hear that all of Scott's work has not 
been in vain. He and I have been communicating via private e-mail 
for some time, and I've been fascinated with his efforts to grow, 
malt, and brew with his own native corn. 
 
I highly recommend a visit to his website. Lots of good info and 
photos! 
 
On the subject of using generic "store-bought" yellow corn, Scott 
writes: 
 
        >While we took the trouble to grow our own (blue) corn, I 
        >see no reason why one could not start with good ol' 
        >yellow corn from the grocery store (domestic 20-row?) 
        >In fact, I plan on doing this if only to see what kind 
        >of chicha it makes. 
 
Wendy and I tried this when we first started brewing chicha, 
using dried yellow corn that was being sold as horse-feed. I 
can't say we were terribly happy with the results. Germination 
was spotty, and the resulting jora (malted corn) had a good bit 
of that "dirty dishrag" character we mentioned in our Zymurgy 
article. I think using a true "seed-grade" corn would be 
preferable if one could locate a stock which hasn't been treated 
with a fungicide (not uncommon with commercial seed). 
 
I'd love to try some of Scott's chicha, especially if he plans to 
try his hand at frutillada, the version flavored with fresh 
strawberries. Yum! 
 
Bill Ridgely 
Alexandria, VA 
 
 

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From: Carl Hattenburg <CHattenburg at Perstorp-us.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 14:25:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Why are copper kettles used?

>>They either have a piece of copper at the bottom or along the way 
before the wort cools. 
Does this mean I should put a penny into each bottle at priming? ;) 
 
- - Carlos, 
http://theweeds.smxcorp.com/carlos/carlos.html 

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From: "David R. Burley" <103164.3202 at CompuServe.COM>
Date: 10 Oct 96 14:25:18 EDT
Subject: Copy of: Bleach, raw Wheat, persistent  positive iodine t*st,

Brewsters: 
 
Part 2 of 2 
Sorry, this was bounced because I used t*st in the subject line, so here it is 
out of sequence. 
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Jim Booth writes: 
 
"1)  Would using 1 gal of the clorine version of bleach at 1t/gal water in 
a 5 or 7 gal carbouy, then swirling to wet all the surfaces every few 
minutes be equivelent to filling and letting the carbouy stand full? 
Opinions...facts....I understand Public health people advise 1t/gal in 
dish/silverware rinse water. Full carbouys take time, heavy lifting, 
uses water and chlorine and if it serves no real purpose.... " 
 
I suppose you mean household bleach , like Chlorox, by "clorine (sic) version 
of
bleach". 
 
For everything except pressurized stainless steel ( like Cornelius Kegs) , I 
use
Chlorox  in the following manner 
 
1) Safety glasses, rubber gloves and old clothes 
2) Put in pure bleach - about 1 cup - rotate the carboy until all of the 
insides
are coated. Purpose:  To dissolve any organic material using both the alkaline 
nature of the bleach as well as the oxidizing power.  Add about 1/2 gallon of 
hot water and rotate the carboy again, and discard.  Give it three rinses of 
about a 1/2 gallon each with hottest tap water  followed by a rinse with hot, 
boiled water. This is fast and doesn't require much lifting. Use hot tap water 
because it will have fewer bugs than cold water.  My hot tap water is 180F on 
brewing day. Dangerous, but effective.  Since we have no children home any 
longer or any old people around it is OK, no one gets burned except me. 
 
3) don't use Chlorine containing agents on SS that you intend to pressurize. 
Corrosion can weaken it at a critical point and may be dangerous.  Use oxygen 
based sterilants/sanitizers like acidic sodium metabisulfite or a commercial 
preparation. 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Mark Thompson  writes: 
 
"I have made several batches of beer using either raw wheat 
or raw barley (stout %25).  In pushing the envelop of cost 
to the lowest possible point i thought that using flour for 
a raw wheat would be an idea worth trying." 
 
Why not try wheat from a feed store, it should be cheap and safe to use, with 
no
anti-fungals, etc. often found on seed grain.  I use generic Cream of Wheat 
sometimes.  I always do a pre-cook with about 2 # of crushed barley   malt 
added. 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- - 
Sara&Rod of Beerdogs writes: 
 
"After 2.5 hrs  at  158, iodine still indicated incomplete 
conversion.  i relaxed, didn't worry, told myself that it was just a test 
run anyway and proceeded to proceed with sparging as usual.  the final 
result was a gravity of about 1.052 on a target of 1.060.  my question: 
was my iodine erronious or is does my gravity reflect some starch content?" 
 
1) Was this a pale ale malt with a particularly low level of enzymes? What was 
the grain bill? Did you have a lot of adjuncts?  I would think even Alpha 
Amylase should have chewed up the starch in the malt after that time if there 
had been any substantial quantity of enzymes. I would be surprised, but it may 
be that your pale ale malt can't be taken all the way to 158F directly.  Cut 
back on your temperature to 155F next time 
 
2) A negative iodine test is one in which the iodine does not change color to 
reddish - blue - black 
  ( depending on the chain length of the starches)  and just stays 
brown/yellow.?  How are you running the test?  Did you get blue black on the 
mash liquid, the liquid you squeezed from the grains or on the grains? 
 
3) What might explain the low OG and the failure to get a negative iodine test 
is a poorly milled malt.  This is the most common reason for poor efficiency. 
Having recently purchased a new mill, I tried various settings and got an OG of
1.035, 1.045, 1.060 and 1.064 for various settings and procedures for the same 
recipe with the same 10# grain bill in 5.5 gallons. 
 
4) Pale Ale Malt is highly modified and made from a low nitrogen barley so you 
can do a single infusion mash. By itself, it does not require a protein rest. 
- --------------------------------------------------------------- 
From: "Ray Robert" <Ray_Robert at bah.com> 
 
"After seriously considering chucking all of my equipment, I reconsidered and I
am now determined to overcome my brewing problems.  The problem I face is 
recurring infections (in my beer of course).  My last four batches have had 
some sort of infection or another, and I am getting a little frustrated." 
 
 
Robert , 
 
If you are using Papazian's crazy carboy/overflow method as a primary fermenter
with attached hose, dump it. The overflow hose or poorly cleaned carboy is your
problem. Ferment in a bucket or plastic container (which can be cleaned easily)
and rack to the carboy after a week. 
 
Use my above bleach cleaning method. Iodophor is only good with clean vessels. 
It cannot sanitize anything under a layer of gunk. 
- ----------------------------------------------------------------- 
 
 
Keep on brewin' 
 
 
Dave Burley 
Kinnelon, NJ 07405 
103164.3203 at compuserve.com 
 

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From: Scott Murman <smurman at best.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 11:33:42 -0700
Subject: Re: Why Wy1056 ? 

 
I think you've answered your own question on why 1056 is so popular. 
It's clean and robust.  I usually use it for porters, which I add 
all kinds of adjuncts to, and don't want to mask the flavor and/or 
aroma with the yeast.  It also seems to ferment well over a wide 
temperature range, and can also handle fairly high gravity brews. 
It's certainly not for everything, but it definately is good for 
what ales you. 
 
SM 

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From: Ken Sullivan <kj at nts.gssc.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 12:52:04 -0600
Subject: Couscous Beer??

As I am eating my lunch I wondered if anyone had ever 
made beer out of couscous??  And... what is couscous anyway? 
I asked around the office and got answers from 'pasta' to 
Morroccan Wheat.  Anybody know??  Can it be mashed? 
Anybody tried it?? 
 
kj at nts.gssc.com 

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From: "Bridges, Scott" <bridgess at mmsmtp.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 96 11:51:00 PDT
Subject: WTB 1.5" copper pipe

 
 
As part of my RIMS construction project, I'm looking for 1.5" copper pipe. 
 As I've read here before, getting a supplier to sell less than a full 10 or 
20' length is a bit of a problem.  Does anyone have a lead on the best place 
to get it, or does anyone have some that they could sell?  I only need about 
18-24".  TIA. 
 
Also, in the 
never-ending-quest-to-spend-large-amounts-of-money-to-make-cheaper-beer 
dept, I noticed an add in the current Grainger flier for a point of use 
water heater.  They have a 4 gal capacity heater for about $135.  The 2.5 
gal heater is a few bucks less.  Anyone ever use one of these?  Might be 
good for a hot liquor tank.  Do they work?  Can you control them with any 
accuracy?  Just curious.  I already have a hot liquor tank (Sankey keg + 
propane cooker), but I thought that someone else might be interested...... 
 
Scott 

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From: RUSt1d? <rust1d at li.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 15:21:03 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Hey, that was a hair, not a nit.

>     John Varady says that Bass is an IPA.  This is what the label says, 
>     but they, like many American brewers, seem to label beer however they 
>     want, with no regard for traditional style guidelines! 
> 
>     Let your palate be the judge.  Bass is NOT an IPA, no matter what they 
 
Duh, i said, "Hard to believe but Bass Ale is an 'IPA'". Hard to believe 
indeed.
I did not say 'Bass is the definitive IPA' or even 'Bass is a good IPA', or 
even 'Bass is good', I simply regurgitated what I've seen (on the bottle) and 
with doubt at that (the quotes around IPA were meant to express doubt). 
 
What is with all the nit-picking going on with in HBD? (i.e. Dave getting 
corrected for using the term "Leaf hops", sanitation's not sterilization, Carl 
getting hacked for offering his robotic palate, the good/bad job done by the 
GBAF PPBT)  It also seems that many of these nits are being picked 
by those who we respect and contribute much knowledge.  It's great to see 
posts from these people, but when they say stuff like this, I feel as if 
i'm being talked to down some ones ski-slope of a nose. Sometimes, I feel 
as if some of these posts are posted for the sole purpose of ego building. 
And while i'm ranting, I really hate it when someone catches up on several 
digests at once and then feels compelled to dredge up all kinds of old 
threads that were happy to be dead (these posts can usually be identified 
by the multiple slashes '/' in the subject line and most of the time really 
ought to be delivered directly to the poster who asked, especially when the 
post is several days old or has already been beaten in to the ground). 
 
Sorry this when from a peev to a full gripe. Maybe i'm just tense since i'm 
selling my soul this weekend. 
 
And remember boys and girls, "Dry hopping isn't really dry!" - Kelly Jones 
 
P.S. An upgrade to HBRCP is on my web page. Small fixes... 
 
John Varady 
http://www.netaxs.com/~vectorsys/varady/index.html 
Boneyard Brewing Co.               "The HomeBrew Recipe Calculating Program" 
"Ale today, Gone tomorrow." 
 

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From: "Preston M W (Mike)" <mpreston at ford.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 15:15:26 -0400
Subject: DATELINE DEAL

- -Sunday on NBC- 
"lager sir is regal" 
    Mike Preston 

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From: Ken Sullivan <kj at nts.gssc.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 13:27:32 -0600
Subject: RE: Beer Filtering

Randy wrote: 
     My questions: 1) Will this work? It looks like a filter commercially 
     available ("The Filtration Kit", pg. 52 latest Zymurgy) and I'm pretty 
     sure that I can buy a .5 micron filter cartridge (like the one in the 
     ad). 2) How would I clean the filter after use? Also, should it be 
     stored wet or dry (full of liquid or empty)?  3) If I choose to 
     naturally carbonate (keg beer before it's finished fermenting to 
     carbonate, not sure I'm using the right term) can I still filter 
     the carbonated beer? 4) Any advice on transfer pressure, etc. 
*************************************************************************** 
I purchased the beer filter kit from the filter store, with the .5 micron 
filter.  I used the same setup you propose: 2 corny kegs and a CO2 
cylinder to push the beer through.  I recently used the setup again 
to filter some raspberry mead.   The key is to rack the beer into 
the first keg, attach the filter to the long down tube of both kegs, 
close the kegs and open the safety valve on the second keg.  I was able 
to push the beer through the filter (5.0 micron filter) with about 
30 psi.  My first experience with the (0.5 micron filter) was very 
dissappointing, just about couldn't get it to flow at all!  THe 
5 micron filter worked great and cleared the mead in short order. 
 
If you are planning to used natural carbonation (priming in the keg) 
then definitely go with the 5 micron filter and not the 0.5 micron 
filter.  I was told that the 0.5 micron filter would remove the 
yeast.  Also the 5.0 mircon filters are MUCH cheaper and easier to find. 
 
As for cleaning the filter, fill a keg some hot water and swap the 
filter connection... to back flush the filter.  Store the filter almost 
full with a weak bleach solution, being very careful to avoid contacting 
any stainless steel with the bleach solution.  When you are ready to 
filter again, push a bunch of hot water through the filter to rinse it. 
 
You can buy the filter housing at Builders Square, DIY, Budget HOme Centers, 
get the WHOLE HOUSE kind.  I bought another one with 2 filters for $34. 
 
Enjoy :-) 
 
KJ 

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From: Jim Busch <busch at eosdev2.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 15:35:16 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Filters/HopDevil

<I purchased a water filter (from the Filter Store... Boy did I get ripped 
<off, paid $79 for a friggin' $19 water filter... Live and Learn friends, 
<Live and Learn...) two years ago with a variety of filter cartridges (you 
<can get the filter cartridges at any big hardware chain for about $2 a 
<piece, This beats the hell out of paying $39 from the Filter Store). 
 
The filters sold for brewing are much better and different from the 
hardware chains water filters.  Efficiency ratings are higher with 
the brewer version and reusability is also greater.  You can buy 
disposable beer filters from Crystal Clear. 
 
<Nothing even came close until a 
<few months ago when I went up to Victory Brewing in Downington, PA and had 
<their Hopdevil. Unfortunately, neither of these beers have a wide distribution
<(Victory does bottle and sell locally). Tupper's Hoppocket is a distant third 
<to these (which is more a complement to the first two than a criticism of 
<Hoppocket) and is available in most mid-atlantic states. 
 
You have good taste!  Interesting note, Victorys brewmaster (Ron Barchet) also 
developed Tuppers Hop Pocket when he was Dominions brewmaster.  Look for 
Victorys distribution to widen over the next year into De/Md/DC. 
 
Jim Busch 
 
See Victory Brewing at: 
http://www.victorybeer.com/ 

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From: John Wilkinson <jwilkins at imtn.tpd.dsccc.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 14:35:31 -0500
Subject: Real Ale

My previous post was truncated for some reason.  I wrote: 
 
Geoff writes: 
 
>Good beer is naturally conditioned in the cask, contains living yeasts, ... 
 
 Plus another sentence about ral ale being brewed without sugar. 
 
My comment on this was that the only beer I have brewed using sugar was 
a recipe for Fuller's London Pride from the CAMRA book Brewing Real Ales 
(or similar title).  Does this mean CAMRA advocates making other than real 
ale?  Or does it mean Real Ale is not as strictly defined as some think? 
 
John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas - 

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From: mcnallyg at in83b.npt.nuwc.navy.mil (Jeff)
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 15:54:30 -0400
Subject: RE:> favorite IPA

 
Hi All, 
 
Its been very interesting and informative to see the recent threads on beer 
styles
("best" Octoberfest, ultimate six-pack, and now IPA's). 
 
  My vote for the best IPA would be either "dead guy ale" or "Santa's private 
reserve ale", both made by Rogue. However, I'm not sure if either of these are 
truly IPA's. They fit what I would call an IPA (based on my interpretation of 
the
AHA style guidelines), but I'm not a "qualified" beer judge. Can any of the 
BJCP
judges in the audience comment on this (Al K., Jim Busch, Jim Dipalma, etc.)? 
 
  In order to keep this thread going, anyone want to cast some votes for what 
*readily available* microbrews would "define" the Dusseldorf Altbier style? 
 
I've brewed a couple of batches of what I think is a good altbier, but it has  
not done well in competitions.  Most comments that I got back seem to indicate 
that it was a good brew, but just not true to style.  I've never been to 
Dusseldorf, so I cant really compare it to any of the "true" altbiers. 
 
                                           Hoppy brewing, 
 
                                           Jeff 
 
 
============================================================================== 
 
Geoffrey A. McNally                    Phone:  (401) 841-7210 x152 
Mechanical Engineer                    Fax:    (401) 841-7250 
Launcher Technology & Analysis Branch  email: mcnallyg at in83b.npt.nuwc.navy.mil 
Naval Undersea Warfare Center 
Code 8322; Bldg. 1246/2 
Newport, RI  02841-1708 

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From: Gregory King <GKING at ARSERRC.Gov>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 15:57:50 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Red Wolf

I stumbled across an article in a magazine called "Prepared Foods" 
(June 1996 issue) that describes the development of Anheuser-Busch's 
Red Wolf beer. 
 
An 11-member team was given 30 days to crank out a product to compete 
with Killian's Red.  They succeeded in 28 days. 
 
The bulk of the article (maybe 85% of it) describes the efforts of the A-B 
team to come up with the packaging (i.e. what do the labels look like) and a 
marketing strategy for the product.  In the small section of the article that 
describes the actual product development, the main point is that the barley 
needs to be roasted in just the right way to get that red color. 
 
Interesting, huh? 
 
Greg King 
gking at arserrc.gov 
Philadelphia, PA 
 

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From: jwc at med.unc.edu (John W. Carpenter)
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 96 16:20:01 EDT
Subject: filtering

Scott writes: 
>>>> 
I purchased a water filter (from the Filter Store... Boy did I get ripped 
off, paid $79 for a friggin' $19 water filter... Live and Learn friends, 
Live and Learn...) two years ago with a variety of filter cartridges (you 
can get the filter cartridges at any big hardware chain for about $2 a 
piece, This beats the hell out of paying $39 from the Filter Store). All in 
all I found that the filter worked very well with the .5 micron cartridge 
on very light color and lightly hopped beers. I also noticed a big loss in 
hop flavor and overall body in my brews, but as they said, the beer was 
crystal clear without any sign of sediment! 
>>>>> 
 
I don't think you got ripped. You are paying for the filter mostly. Sure, 
you can get a 10" housing other places for $20-25, and those cheapo 
filters for $5. The cheap filters are one time only filters. The $39 are 
reusable and cleanable, and if taken care of will last quite some time. 
The $39 are high efficiency, they remove over 99% of particles above the 
rated size. The cheap filters don't come close to this efficiency. I've 
been very happy with my 5 micron filter. (Std. disclaimer) I haven't 
noticed ANY lack of taste or body in my filtered brews. 
 
>>>> 
I cleaned the filter by backwashing it between two kegs with a bleach and 
water solution. This works very well to removed any residue on or in the 
filter. I also would always backwash the filter before I would filter the 
next batch to assure cleanliness. I always have stored my filters dry but 
have friends that store them in the filter in a Co2/water  environment. 
>>>> 
 
I sanitize my kegs with iodophor, then just push the solution through the 
filter and into another keg. I next just switch the empty sanitized keg 
that is also full of CO2 to the other side of the filter and then run my 
beer through the filter. I backwash to clean my filter, then store it in 
iodophor in the refrigerator. 
 
>>>> 
I also found that I lost some carbonation when I ran carbonated beer 
through the filter. 
>>>> 
 
This can be minimized if you presurize the receiving keg prior to 
filtering, kind of like counter pressure bottle filling. 
 
>>>> 
Before filtering I would get the beer down to about 29 F and transfer it 
through the filter at about 32 psi. This worked very well for me, who knows 
for you. 
>>>> 
 
15 psi works for me with a 5 micron filter. Cold is good. It also allows 
you to see how full your receiving keg is getting. You can watch the 
condensation work it's way to the top of the keg. 
 
John Carpenter, Chapel Hill, NC 
jwc at med.unc.edu 

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From: rmoucka at omn.com (Ronald Moucka)
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 20:07:09 GMT
Subject: pilsner urquell

 
 
Kirk Fleming was looking for Pilsner Urquell on tap. 
 
Try Marie's restaurant in Berthoud.  Just about half way between Ft. 
Collins, Boulder, and Denver.  Right in the middle of Colorado's Golden 
Triangle of Beer.  Last time I was there (a few months back) they had 
both PU and another Bohemian beer which I cannot remember (started with 
an S) on tap.  Excellent cuisine too. 
 
Cheers, 
 
Ron Moucka (which means "fine flower" as in milled grain in czech 

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From: U18183 at UICVM.UIC.EDU
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 96 15:17:51 CDT
Subject: Corona Mill vs. Maltmills

 
 I have reached the point in my brewing where I need to buy a mill. 
 
 I figure I have two choices:  A Maltmill for $100+ or 
                               A Corona for $40 
 
  Considering the difference in cost amounts to a years worth of malt, 
is it really worth it to get the Maltmill?   Specifically: 
 
1)   Is the TASTE of the beer different?  I hear lots of stories of crushed 
      husks and tannin extraction and astringency, but is it real? 
 
2)   Is the extraction markedly different?  Will a Maltmill add 10 points 
     to my extract over a Corona? 
 
 Im sure there are brewers out there who have pondered this question and 
made a decision opting for a Corona - are you happy about it?  And, if not 
do you want to sell me your old one cheap?  :) 
 
TIA, 
 
- -Paul 
Paul Sovcik 
Western Springs, IL              PJS at uic.edu 

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From: Joe Rolfe <onbc at shore.net>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 16:49:30 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: RE: SPARGE PH

 
in regards to questions about adjusting sparge water, 
ph should be checked, such that the runoff near the end does not climb 
to high.  by to high brewing texts indicate it is best to keep the 
ph of the final runoff below 6.0, and beter if below 5.7. 
 another addition of calcium may also be needed to insure 
correct levels in the kettle. this addition can be made in lump sum at 
the beginning of the water treatments or sprinkled on the mash.  best 
results would come from (IMHO and others) at the hot liquor tank. 
 
you also can add acid and salt to the kettle, if required.  you want to start 
the boil in the kettle with a ph of less than 5.6 and possible closer to 
5.4 or so depending on the beer (bottom fermenters high, top fermenters low). 
 
it has been mentioned that the calcium content of the beer should be 
50 to 80 mg/L, a good ly portion gets lost in the mash and boil, so adjust 
all along hte process. 
 
good luck 
joe 

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From: Peter Ensminger <ensmingr at npac.syr.edu>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 17:47:56 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: pH of sparge water

 
Adam Back asked about the pH of sparge water ... 
 
Sparge water pH is important.  If it is too high, it will extract 
polyphenols (tannins) from the grains into the wort and this can lead to 
an astringent beer.  One way to lower the sparge water pH is to add gypsum 
(CaSO4.2H2O).  However, for water which is highly alkaline to begin with, 
you may need to use lactic acid or phosphoric acid. 
 
 
My impression, from having lived in Germany for a while, is that German 
water is very chalky (alkaline).  This leads me to ask: 
 
 
How do German brewers, who are constrained by the Rheinheitsgebot, lower 
the pH of their mash and sparge water? 
 
Cheers! 
 
Peter A. Ensminger                  tel: 315-478-6024 
256 Greenwood Place               email: ensmingr at npac.syr.edu 
Syracuse, NY 13210                  URL: www.npac.syr.edu/users/ensmingr/ 
U.S.A. 
 
 
 

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From: Tamth at MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU (Tam Thompson)
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 12:36:05 -0500
Subject: Re: Applejack lager

Jim Booth: 
        Tried to reply to you, the mailer-daemon kept kicking it back, 
so here's my applejack lager report: 
 
Jim Booth says: 
>>I'm reading back issues and you talked about applejack lager.  I've brewed 
>>cider and ales together and they make a light refreshing drink.  There is 
>>a historic name for this as it was the marching ration for British troops 
>>against Napolian and there was a mutiny when it was diluted in strength. 
>> 
>>Applejack is the distilled or concentrated version of cider. 
>>Traditionally when the cider barrels froze, the cup/gal of concentrated 
>>sugars and alcohol that could the drained off the water chrystals was the 
>>applejack and potent.  I freeze some cider in 2 liter bottles and drain 
>>off the liquid portion and after several repetitions have applejack.  My 
>>dad used to do this with pear cider and have I suppose pearjack. 
>> 
>>I sent out a request for the historic name of apples and ale over HBD and 
>>the cider digest and never got the response.  I've misplaced the reference 
>>I remember and ......old age is hell. 
>> 
>>Let me/HBD know how your blend worked out.  I used 2/3 ale and 1/3 cider. 
>> 
>>cheers  jim booth, lansing, mi 
>> 
I, Tam, say: 
>Hi Jim, 
>        Thanks for the info.   I did get into my cider book and 
>read up on applejack. 
>        The beer is lagering right now.   It did not taste very 
>good towards the end of primary, with some sort of unpleasant apple esters 
>and perhaps a hint of diacetyl, and I toyed with the idea of 
>adding some fresh ginger and lactose to it at bottling.  However, 
>it was much better at racking, so there's hope.   I used one gallon 
>of organic unfiltered juice in about 5 gallons of wort, putting it 
>in after turning off the boil and letting things sit for 25 minutes 
>to pasteurize (used 8 lbs. pilsner malt and 1 lb. munich.) 
>I knew it would be a fairly dry, crisp beer due to the highly 
>fermentable apple juice, and it is:  OG 1.048, racking gravity 
>1.008.  If it's too dry at bottling I may hit it with a pound of 
>lactose.   I don't like really dry beers or wines.   I think 
>the apple beer will be a wonderful Thanksgiving beer!   And, 
>of course, my long-lagering bock will be bottled around Dec. 7th.  :-) 
 
UPDATE:  The apple lager DOES taste a bit...well...CIDERY. 
What did I expect, right?  ;-) 
 
                Happy lagering! 
 
      Tam Thompson, Ph.D. candidate, Tamth at mail.utexas.edu 
      Mechanical Systems & Design Area, Robotics Research Group 
      Mechanical Engineering Department, The University of Texas at Austin 
 
 

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From: Clint Weathers <clintw at echo.sound.net>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 17:19:08 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: IPA, RIMS, etc.

My votes for IPA would have to be either SN Celebration (xtal malt flavor 
not withstanding) or Rogue Ales' St. Rogue Red.  Both are big beers, 
hopped to hell, St Rogue is dryhopped, and deserve a place in the beer 
hall of fame. 
 
RE: rims-  So, in a nutshell, what is it, and how is it really that 
helpful?  I see folks wonking on about it here all the time, but dont 
know enough to enjoy all the geeking.  Let me in! 
 
 
|  Clint Weathers                    | 
|  Nano-brewer and Yeast Rancher     | 
|  Kansas City, Missouri             | 
|  Relax, Dont worry, Breed Yeast!   | 
 
 

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From: "Thomas A. Wideman" <75710.1511 at CompuServe.COM>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 18:11:40 -0400
Subject: Re: aged Barley Wines

>And this is yet another reason to use 1056, umleff my foot'f im my mouff, 
>Big Foot is made with 1056. 
 
I love 1056, and made a barleywine with it.  The flavor is magnificent, 
but I encountered one problem. 
I had it in primary for about 6 days, and in secondary for about 8 weeks. 
 I repitched before going into secondary, and repitched 1056 _again_ when 
bottling (using 1/2c corn sugar in a 5 gal. batch). 
This was thick stuff, reaching about 13% alcohol.  The problem was that 
it had really reached the endpoint, and I think the alcohol content was 
so high, it didn't carbonate when primed. 
Bottom line -- you may need another yeast (champaigne?) for bottling. 
Anyone with similar results?  Please email. 
Cheers, 
Tom Wideman 

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From: Jzdial at aol.com
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 18:42:28 -0400
Subject: Improved wort chiller hopefully.

Rick Dial / aa8jz 
N. Muskegon, Mi. 
 
I have been brewing for less then a year. I have been vicariously brewing 
here on the HBD for 
about a month. It seems many folks are as concerned about wort chiller 
cleaning as I am. 
My solution seems very simple and as such must have some serious drawbacks. 
Silver solder 10-15 wraps of 1/2 " copper tubing on the outside of my 15 
gallon stainless brew 
kettle. Run the tubing dry during the boil. Blast cold water around the 
outside afterwards and 
have no concerns about copper flavors or gunk in the counterflow chiller. 
Will silver solder bond correctly to the stainless? 
Will the cooling rate be significantly slower then with my counterflow 
chiller? 
Other concerns? 
tnx 

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