---

   FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
        Mike Donald, Digest Janitor-in-training
        Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!

Contents:
  EasyMasher questions/amylases/blowoff method (korz at xnet.com)
  Zymurgy extract issue (Dave Greenlee)
  common wheat adjuncts ((beerdogs))
  Blue corn meal ("Scott Kaczorowski")
  Low-AA hops for bittering (Alex Santic)
  Kombucha tea to beer? ((Ken Coppleman))
  re: Oxygen in the wort (Sharon/Dan Ritter)
  RE:  CP bottling & IPA hops (Bret_Wortman at stratus.com)
  Re: World Class Beer (Brian Coble)
  How long is long enough (or too long)?? (Annetmark at aol.com)
  Yeast for IPA; split batches (Kathy Booth )
  hops rhizomes ("Robert Petersen")
  Blue corn (Brian Coble)
  the domestic beer market (re: dateline, etc) (bob rogers)
  Plaster ((LaBorde, Ronald))
  Re:Plaster? ("Dave Eddington")
  Saranac PA (Michael Gerholdt)
  Sorghum Beer (Michael Gerholdt)
  Brew fridge thermostat (Paul Mansour)
  Megas/ Shane / Doesn't Matter (Rob Moline)
  [none] ((David Hill))
  Interesting letter :-) ((Wouter de Waal))

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: korz at xnet.com
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 16:34:45 -0500
Subject: EasyMasher questions/amylases/blowoff method

In an effort to minimize my posting, I'm waiting (in most cases) for 
a couple of days to post so that I don't just repeat what others have 
responded.  Here's a couple of posts for which I didn't see responses. 
 
Craig writes: 
>I use a 33 quart enamel pot with an EZ Masher (TM).  My grain load is usually 
>about 10-12 lbs.  My sparge technique is: 
>1) Mash out at 170F for about 15 minutes. 
>2) Recirculate until clear (a couple of cups) 
>3) Attach hose to ezm spout that goes to bottom of brewpot to avoid splashing 
>and HSA. 
>4) Open spigot, until I get just a trickle. 
>5) Get a gallon of water boiling. 
>6) Pour it slowly around top of grain (which already has 1-2" of liquid in it)
>7) Collect 7 gallons, usually taking  1 1/2 to 2 hours. 
> 
>Questions: 
>A) Does pouring the water, as opposed to using a distribution device, create 
>serious channeling? 
 
I don't think so.  You may want to put a spigot in a plastic pail and run 
the sparge water via a tube to the top of the grain bed, but this is really 
just for convenience, I feel.  I personally don't use any distribution device 
... I just run the tube under the 1 to 2" of water which is over the grain 
bed and that's it. 
 
>B) Is boiling water too hot? The grain stays 160-170F (I keep a thermometer in
>it.) 
 
All the books say use water no hotter than 75-80C (167-176F).  What's 
important is knowing why you should not exceed that temperature.  You 
want to make sure you don't burst any unconverted starch.  DeClerck says 
that temperatures over 80C significantly increase tannin and silicate 
extraction (although pH is far more important).  If you don't have a 
starch haze in your beer and your beer is not astringent, then go ahead 
and keep using the boiling water, but if you ever do have these problems, 
consider changing your method. 
 
>C)  If I notice small bits of particulate matter in the initial runnings, 
>should I start over? Will these "bits-o-grain" cause starch haze or what? 
 
They can.  Typically, it is recommended that you recirculate till the wort 
is at least "pretty clear."  Some German breweries recirculate for HOURS, 
but I think that's excessive.  I use an EasyMasher(tm) also and I recirc 
about 16 ounces. 
 
>E) Do most of you using enamel pots with EZ Masher (TM) insulate same? 
 
I did.  I found that it lost way too much heat otherwise.  Just make sure 
it doesn't catch fire! 
 
>F) Is it possible to sparge too slowly? What would I gain by shortening the 
>sparge time to 45min- 1 hour? 
 
It's a question of the "law of diminishing returns."  A slower sparge will 
give you better extraction of sugars, but will probably (speculating) also 
increase tannin and silicate extraction (where's that lauter FAQ Charlie?). 
You would perhaps lose a point or two in pts/lb/gal if you sped up your 
lauter to 45 min. 
 
*** 
 
>2.) Charlie Papazian in his book "The New Joy..." claims that Alpha-amylase 
>works best in the 149-153 degrees F range and Beta-amylase works best in the 
>126-144 degree range but that the two enzymes together work best in the 
>145-158 degrees F range. Why would the ideal be so much higher with the two 
>together? Why not 144-149 degree F range? 
 
There's some question as to the meaning of "works best."  Alpha and beta 
amylase both work faster the higher the temperature, but beta amylase is 
more heat labile (denatures (becomes inactive) at lower temperatures) than 
alpha amylase.  This means that at higher mash temperatures (say 155-158F), 
the beta amylase works only for a short period of time and much of the 
dextrins created by the alpha amylase from starch remain (unfermentable) 
dextrins.  At lower mash temperatures (say 148-152F), both the beta and 
alpha amylase work slower, but the beta amylase survives longer and the 
resulting beer has fewer dextrins.  More dextrins were cut up into maltose 
by the beta amylase, because it survived longer. 
 
*** 
Dave writes: 
>If you are using Papazian's crazy carboy/overflow method as a primary 
fermenter
>with attached hose, dump it. The overflow hose or poorly cleaned carboy is 
your
>problem. Ferment in a bucket or plastic container (which can be cleaned 
easily)
>and rack to the carboy after a week. 
 
Baloney!  Plastic scratches and is therefore more difficult to sanitize than 
glass.  Sure the carboys can get dirty and can harbour wild yeast and 
bacteria, but a one week soak in bleach water (1 tablespoon per gallon) and 
a 1 minute scrub with a carboy brush takes off all the crud.  You are the 
first person I've ever heard say that plastic is easier to deal with than 
glass.  Glass is fragile and costs more, but it is far easier to sanitize 
reliably than a plastic fermenter.  Don't tell me you lager in plastic too? 
Eight weeks in a plastic fermenter is sure to allow enough oxygen in to 
oxidise the alcohols to aldehydes.  Yuck!  Ever taste air-pumped megabrew 
beer the morning after?  THAT'S aldehydes.  To me they smell a little like 
"Playdoh." 
 
Al. 
 
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL 
korzonas at lucent.com 
korz.pubs.ih.lucent.com 
korz at xnet.com 

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From: Dave Greenlee <daveg at mail.airmail.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 14:42:06 -0500
Subject: Zymurgy extract issue

Could someone scan in and email to me the index page from the 86 Zymurgy 
special issue on malt extracts?  Would be beaucoup appreciated.  If you 
don't want to scan and send, I'd be happy to give you a snailmail address 
by email. 
 
Nazdrowie, 
Dave 
 
P.S.  I really want the whole issue, or at least the main extract 
article(s) and sidebars, but with the HBD now sponsored by AOB I'm 
doubtful that they'd be crazy about a blatant request for copyright 
violation, especially when they sell back issues, so I'm not asking for 
that. 

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From: beerdogs at cyclops.dcache.net (beerdogs)
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 17:58:15 -0500
Subject: common wheat adjuncts

i remember someone saying that they used cream of wheat in a pinch.  i'm in 
a pinch and i need wheat beer fast!!  torrified wheat and cream of wheat 
hefeweizen, anyone?  its ok its for someone's wedding.  so anyway: 
1)  do i use torrified wheat or cream of wheat? 
2)  what is WHEAT FARINA? 
3)  how does this work out and how should i adjust amounts? 
 
Thanks and 
 
Cheers, 
Sara&Rod 
 
***  "Come on, I'll buy you a beer, Jim."  "Oh, it's going to take more 
than a beer to get rid of this mess.  This is a job for a couple of 
sixpacks."    *** 
                                        -Jim Inatowski, TAXI 
 
 

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From: "Scott Kaczorowski" <kacz at delta1>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 15:19:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Blue corn meal

 
Greg King asks in HBD #2233: 
 
> I was wondering if any of you have used blue corn meal as an 
> adjunct, and if so, what sort of flavor and color qualities does 
> it add to a beer? 
 
From having made chicha from blue corn, blue corn, and nothing BUT 
blue corn, I can say that blue corn yields a beverage that is purple 
in color.  It is a rather pale purple and so I'll bet that the color 
contribution from blue corn in a predominately barley grain bill would 
be minimal.  But who knows?  In a very light-colored beer the 
resulting color could be very strange and therefore worth doing.  I 
say mash it and ferment it and let us know what happens. 
 
As far as flavor goes, someone who has made a Renner's Pils will have 
to help you out, but I'm certain the corn will add a noticeable flavor 
and aroma (depending on the amount, of course). 
 
Where'd you get blue corn meal, Greg?  I want some! 
 
Greg's choice of words got me wondering as to whether or not malted 
corn is strictly an adjunct (I have no idea what corn meal is made 
from, malted or unmalted corn, but I suspect the latter.)  I think of 
an adjunct as something that needs help in conversion, but malted corn 
contains sufficient enzymes to convert itself.  I think it's pretty 
obvious that MALTED corn is not an adjunct (because malted wheat, 
malted rye, etc. would then be adjuncts), but I was wondering what 
others think. 
 
 
Scott Kaczorowski 
Long Beach, CA 
kacz at aisf.com 
Chicha Page => http://users.deltanet.com/~kacz/chicha/chicha.htm 
 
 
  "I empty a bottle, I feel a bit free." 
 

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From: Alex Santic <alex at brainlink.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 19:29:43 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Low-AA hops for bittering

Tom Castle writes: 
> Now for a thought experiment.  What if you take a very low AA hop, 
> say a Liberty 2.2%AA and use it for bittering - a full 90 min boil. 
> There is only a miniscule amount of alphas so the bittering would be 
> almost non-existent and the aroma properties would be 
> well-volatilized from the long time at high temperature.  Would you 
> have the heart of the hops?  If so, what's in there? 
 
 
It's not so much a theoretical issue. Bittering with low-AA noble hops is 
recommended for certain styles of beer, because apparently some subtle 
varietal characteristics do come through the boil. I just received 8 oz. 
of Czech Saaz for my first pils, and you can imagine that my eyes widened 
when I saw that they were labeled 2.9% AA. Almost half that big bag is 
going in at the beginning of the boil, plus 30 and 15 minute additions 
that will contribute a few IBUs as well. Damned if there won't be a mighty 
fine filter bed for the trub. 
 
Alex Santic 
NYC 

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From: ken at axis.jeack.com.au (Ken Coppleman)
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 09:33:33 +1000
Subject: Kombucha tea to beer?

I haven't brewed beer for 7 or 8 years (at least), but a friend gave me a 
Kombucha mushroom a little while ago, so I got out my carboy & eventually 
built the continuous fermentation up to more than 20 litres.  At first my 
family like it, but eventually got sick of it, leaving me with more than 20 
litres of the stuff! 
 
So, my question is can I turn this "tea" into alcoholic beer or wine? (the 
original brew is probably about 1% or so alcohol, max). 
 
I firstly bottled some of it, adding a teaspoon of sugar per bottle & crown 
sealed it - this just resulted in very sweet kombucha & not the secondary 
fermentation I was hoping for. 
 
So I took the plunge about 2 days ago & have attempted to ferment the whole 
batch with a commercial beer (ale) yeast. 
 
I firstly removed the Kombucha culture & figured I should try to kill the 
yeasts within the brew, so I then heated the whole lot to 50 degrees celcius 
(around 115-120 farenheit?) hoping this would kill the Kombucha yeasts.  I 
then figured that the brew would need extra nutrients, as the Kombucha 
fermentation would have used most of the original sugars - so I added about 
2 kg of white cane sugar.  I then added the started beer yeast, fitted an 
air lock & crossed my fingers. 
 
Since then the brew *is* fermenting, but movement of the air bubble in the 
lock is extremely slow (I also don't know whether it is the beer yeast, or 
possible Kombucha yeasts at work). 
 
Can anyone advise me whether I might be able to end up with a palatable beer 
or wine, whether I need to adjust or add any ingredients, or whether I 
should cut my losses & just throw the whole lot away.  I would like to 
persevere, because the original Kombucha brew was quite tasty & sharp, I 
could see it making a nice sparkling cider type of drink. 
 
- --Ken 
 
 
/* ---------------- Ken Coppleman - MELBOURNE ----------------- */ 
/* ------------- Internet: ken at axis.jeack.com.au -------------- */ 
/* ------------------------------------------------------------ */ 
 

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From: Sharon/Dan Ritter <ritter at web.camasnet.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 16:27:18 -0700
Subject: re: Oxygen in the wort

Adam Rich writes about the wort oxygenation article in the recent Brewing 
Techniques: 
 
>>However, if I recall correctly it also showed that the lag times were 
>>greater for this high level of dissolved oxygen!  I know that we want a 
>>large healthy population of yeast but this is usually associated with 
>>short lag times.  As I recall there is little discussion of this result 
>>and no recomendation<< 
 
I had to reread the same section Adam refers to because I too was confused. 
The author is referring to long lag times in worts where the dissolved O2 
level was *greater* than 10ppm.  The optimum (according to the article) 
level is around 7ppm - a level at which I assume the lag times were 
"normal"in his experiment.  The author attributes a longer lag time for the 
>10ppm worts to the yeast spending more time in the aerobic stage while it 
absorbed all that O2. 
 
My own experience using pure O2 for the past 6 batches (all ales) is that 
the lag times are the same or slightly shorter - 4 to 6 hours, pitching 
slurry from a one liter starter.  The real advantage in my brewery is the 
time savings (I used to run an aquarium pump for 90 minutes - now I give 
the wort a 60 second burst of pure O2!) and the consistently complete and 
quick fermentations.  On Friday I'm brewing a lager using pure O2 for the 
first time.  I've been plagued with 24-36 hour lag times even pitching 
slurry from a one gallon starter.  Perhaps the higher dissolved O2 levels 
will shorten the lager lag time. 
 
 
 
Dan Ritter <ritter at camasnet.com> 
 
Ritter's MAMMOTH Brewery 
Grangeville, Idaho 
 
 

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From: Bret_Wortman at stratus.com
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 96 19:38:39 -0400
Subject: RE:  CP bottling & IPA hops

Chris writes: 
 
>Good Day All- 
>Kegged at 29 psi with room temp. around 68F for a CO2 saturation of 
>approx. 2.6.  Going to pick up my counter-pressure filler set up 
>tomorrow. Can I fill bottles at this pressure? (Grolsch 16 oz. type) I 
>don't have the means to chill my keg, and would like to fill some bottles 
 
>and refrigerate for Eagles game Sunday. Will the carbonation level remain 
 
>constant? Will I spent Sunday at the E.R. having glass shards removed? 
 
1.  I don't know about yours, but I discovered that my pin-lock keg fits 
nicely in my fridge, I just have to clear the bottom shelf and slide it in. 
 It's a close fit, but it does fit.  I remove it to tap & serve or bottle. 
 
2.  At much of anything about 32F, you're going to get foaming.  Lots and 
lots of foaming.  I don't know about shattered bottles, but you'll be 
dealing with more pressure than you would if the beer were chilled and 
better able to hold its CO2 in suspension. 
 
You'll also have to crank the pressure up on the keg prior to bottling to 
allow for the fact that, even though you're bottling under CP, you will 
still bleed off the head pressure prior to removing the bottler, and that 
will require some of the CO2 in solution to come out and fill the headspace 
until equilibrium is again achieved.  You'll want to slightly (I'm still 
experimenting with how much is enough) over-carbonate the beverage prior to 
bottling. 
 
Good luck! 
 
- ------------ 
 
Delano DuGarm writes: 
 
>I'm convinced that Columbus is the best hop to use for 
>the Wall of Hops (TM) that is essential for an American IPA.  My 
>last attempt at an all-Columbus IPA had an amazingly strong 
>aroma, deeply piney and citrusy (more lime, I think, than 
>grapefruit).  The hop flavor was so intense it had an oily 
>character to it. 
 
Having been lucky enough to taste this beer, I would agree.  It was pretty 
impressive.  I have a freezer full of Columbus that will find its way into 
my next APA now.... 
 
Shame you already trademarked "Wall of Hops"....  ;-) 
 
 
Bret Wortman 
Manassas, VA 
 

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From: Brian Coble <azfool at cris.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 16:43:10 -0700
Subject: Re: World Class Beer

Homebrew Digest REQUEST Address Only wrote: 
 
> 
> I don't believe AB *brews* any Redhook products, do they?  Anyway, IMO 
> it's not the major breweries' facilities that are responsible for 
> product profiles, it's the *recipe formulation*.  Does anyone out there 
> believe that the AB, Coors and Miller brewing staff are not capable of 
> brewing world class beers?  If one can make defect-free light beer, one 
> can make Pale Ale and Helles. 
> 
>No, AB is not Redhook anymore than Miller is Celis or Strohs is BCC, they just
own large percentages. The 3 mentioned micros still are
supposed to have product control.  Hope they got that carved in stone 
somewhere - 15 years of dealing with major corp.s teaches you to fear 
"bean counters" and "the bottom line". 
And yes we do know that a mega brewery can produce micro-quality. 
Guinness is a prime example.  American megas could.  Then Budwiser would 
still be Budvar.  But it's not, that's why we're here! 
 
Cheers. 

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From: Annetmark at aol.com
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 19:50:48 -0400
Subject: How long is long enough (or too long)??

Dear HBDers- 
 
I have a question that will hopefully get some good answers from you all - 
maybe even start a thread that is brewing related. 
 
What are the different parameters that affect storing beer? Much has been 
said about consuming beer while it is fresh, much has also been said about 
time having a mellowing & improving effect on beer - off flavors 
disappearing, harshness mellowing out etc. The general understanding seems to 
be that aging is best for big, high alcohol beers, but that most beers are 
best consumed young. 
 
What do you all think about this subject - I'd appreciate any specifics as to 
beer styles, aging times, what the effect was, storing methods, any other 
pertinent info to help me (us) understand more about this. If you think that 
aging improves certain styles, please tell what you think the optimum aging 
time would be, and also how long is too long - when do certain styles begin 
to deteriorate? 
 
I'd appreciate anwers either in the digest or by private e-mail. If there is 
a good response I will summarize for the digest. Thanks in advance - right 
now I'm going to save a Paulener Octoberfest from getting any older! 
 
Mark Tumarkin 
The Brewery in the Jungle 
Miami, FL 
annetmark at aol.com 

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From: Kathy Booth <kbooth at waverly.k12.mi.us>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 20:11:39 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Yeast for IPA; split batches

Still looking for a recommended yeast that will give a fruity, estery 
character in an IPA.  Is the alternative to use any ale yeast but ferment 
at a higher temperture? 
 Would Wyeast 1318 London III be a good IPA choice?  Any 
experiences with 1318? 
 
I wouldn't recommend going to small batches until the inventory is well 
stocked. I've gone to infrequent brewing but doing 3 related 5 gallon 
batches at a time as a bitter, an IPA and a strong ale. But then I like a 
variety of styles. 
 
Please respond to kbooth at scnc.waverly.k12.mi.us as the address at the top 
of this post is *&^%$# at  wrong. 
 
Cheers, jim booth, lansing,mi 
 

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From: "Robert Petersen" <StoneRidgeFarm at msn.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 96 22:24:47 UT
Subject: hops rhizomes

Annetmark at aol.com likes Freshops as a source.  While I have no personal 
experience with them, I have had a WONDERFUL experience with HopUnion.  They 
had excellent customer service and their hops were much less expensive and 
MUCH better quality than two other local sources I have used. 
 
No connection or rebate, just an unsolicited testimonial. 
 
Bob 
StoneRidgeFarm 
Wine is for Peasants 

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From: Brian Coble <azfool at cris.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 19:46:23 -0700
Subject: Blue corn

Blue corn meal is a fairly common item in Arizona health food and grain 
shops, whole kernels are available.  It is not malted and as an adjunct 
shouldn't need to be.  Haven't tried it myself, but the chicha does 
sound interesting - it is often flavored with fruit, mostly 
strawberries. 

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From: bob rogers <bob at carol.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 22:58:19 -0400
Subject: the domestic beer market (re: dateline, etc)

no flames percieved in others posts. none intended in mine. 
 
* we homebrewers / "beer hunters" are the minority we know a lot about beer, 
how it's made, and what it should taste like. most beer is sold to men who 
drink a case a week (i don't have the exact figgures handy). that fact 
explains the advertising campaigns which feature bikini babes. 
 
* most brewers (to include guinness, a-b, coors, BBC, and the oregon brewers 
guild (whatever they're called)) agree that the market cares about where a 
beer is brewed. if jim koch believed his rhetoric, he would not be fighting 
a-b and the oregon brewers. the case is pending at the atf. 
 
* it would be a disaster for a mega-brewer to change the taste of their 
flagship products. what they have done is set up divisions which produce 
better beer. i think most of us would agree that red wolf tastes better than 
bud. they cost about the same. why does bud sell so much better? 
 
* back to my real point: teach everyone you know that beer can be better. if 
people start buying better beer, all brewers will need to make better beer 
(including brew-pubs) and we will all be better off. (a great example is the 
auto industry, where market forces induced by japanese competition caused 
american car companies to produce better cars.) 
 
* i would be happy to discuss business and economy forever, but i expect 
most of y'all are tired of it by now. if anyone wants to e-mail me things, 
that's fine. 
 
bob: brewing in the heart of the bible belt 
bob rogers   bob at carol.net 
 

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From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald)
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 22:14:08 -0500
Subject: Plaster

Subject: Mash THIS! 
 
>>>Has anyone ever made beer from plaster?  Can it be mashed? 
>Be sure to throw in some old nails too, as nutrients for the yeast. 
>Also, be careful how you sparge, or it could set up like plaster. 
>- - Carlos, 
>(e) CHattenburg at Perstorp-us.com        (e) CHatten at Erols.com 
>(www) http://theweeds.smxcorp.com/carlos/carlos.html 
>Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the 
>leather straps.  -- Emo Phillips 
 
One warning, however, be absolutely sure that you get a local building 
permit.  I have known many people who skipped this necessary step and are 
very sorry. 
 
Ron 
 

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From: "Dave Eddington" <homebrew at aristotle.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 22:46:08 -0500
Subject: Re:Plaster?

Although I've never brewed with plaster, I once made a heck of a drywall 
porter.  A protein rest is essential for full conversion.  If you try it, 
remember that the secret is in the crush.  Be careful not to shred the 
brown paper backing, as this will lead to astringency.  E-mail for the full 
recipe. ;^) 
******************************* 
Dave Eddington 
Little Rock, AR 
Homebrew at aristotle.net 

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From: Michael Gerholdt <gerholdt at ait.fredonia.edu>
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 96 00:47:39 -0500
Subject: Saranac PA

Dave Hinkle wrote: 
 
>> 
You're right, Saranac PA is not an IPA. BUT, I must humbly disagree that 
there 
is "no comparison to Sierra Nevada PA."  NO comparison!? I think SNPA is an 
excellent APA.  But so is the SaranacPA (w/ Cascades - I didn't know there 
was 
another one).  F.X.Matt's is a bit more fruity, but that hardly makes it 
inferior (just different).  Funny thing is, it's hard to find Saranac here 
in 
AZ, but SNPA abounds lately (and cheaper all the time).  Maybe if you drank 
SNPA more often, you'd feel differently about it being the end-all, be-all, 
definitive American pale ale. 
>> 
 
Dave, if I drank SNPA more often, I'd be a kinder, gentler, happier man. 
 
SNPA is the best APA I've had the pleasure of tasting - when it is at its 
tongue-dancing freshest. 
 
I've been considering relocating to the arid zone ... most of my family is 
in Tucson ... and since you say that SNPA is getting cheaper there all the 
time, I've just reached critical mass in my decision making process. 
 
I'm flying into Phoenix on 11/19 to check out the White Mountain area. Going 
to hit Prescott and taste the brewpub offerings there. Where else can I find 
good beer? Did you say something about a shrine that needs to be desacrated? 
 
I really think that Saranac's Pale Ale pales next to SNPA or Summit Extra 
Pale Ale (St Paul, MN), though it is better than lots of other beers I've 
had. I have no problem crowning SNPA king of APAs ... though I haven't 
tasted them all (yet!). 
 
I've tasted nothing else from Chico and know nothing of Bigfoot. 
- -- 
 

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From: Michael Gerholdt <gerholdt at ait.fredonia.edu>
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 96 00:47:06 -0500
Subject: Sorghum Beer

So, I get to the homebrew club, primary in hand. The airlock is still active 
, just a glug now and then. The turnout is low at the club, only about 20 of 
us there. We put off the election of officers until the following meeting, 
and talk about the Marzen/Oktoberfest beer the pres brought along, and then, 
before the brats and kraut are served up, I get to introduce the sorghum 
beer. 
 
It was interesting to everyone there that they had unsuspectingly become one 
of three locations on the planet chosen by Michel V. for a sorghum beer 
experiment, and they all gathered 'round rather eagerly after I described 
the brewing process I had followed. I took off the lid and had my first look 
at the beer since I had sealed it three days earlier. The grains were 
floating in the murky liquid. I poured some through a nylon net bag, and 
what fell into the SS kettle looked like coffee with milk in it. The smell . 
... well, if you remember, I had soured the mash from some pale malts and 
the Ancient Grains. It took two days to get some souring. Also, I had 
allowed the bacteria and yeasts present on the sorghum to work along with 
Edme dry yeast in the fermentation. 
 
I ladeled some of the beer into the waiting glasses, and got some for myself 
. It was a semi-shock to the tastebuds! Reactions were varied. Tastes like 
sake. Tastes like plastic. Alcohol taste obvious. The general consensus was 
that this is not beer as we know it. We also agreed that if this were what 
available, and we were "in the bush," we'd learn to negotiate the taste and 
probably enjoy it. 
 
All that said, most glasses were, within a fairly short time, full of clear 
beer once again. Some of us drank seconds. 
 
I poured what was in the kettle back into the primary, and brought it home. 
I'll filter it out, refrigerate, see if it clears a bit or changes as it is 
cooled at all. I wish I could say that I'll be drinking the rest of it, but 
I'm not sure I can make that claim in good faith. My wife won't be helping 
me this time. 
 
There is no way I can really know if this bears a resemblance to what they 
actually make in Africa. Perhaps someday I'll be able to know that. But I 
have little doubt that what I've made is very close to what has been 
produced and ingested many times over, in past years, in primitive 
situations. Perhaps not the norm or expected. Then again, perhaps it is. 
 
It instills a certain respect for the tenacious adoration of alcohol 
resident in the human spirit. 
 
I really wish I could say that I've discovered a wonderful new "beer." Gimme 
a week of drinking nothing else and maybe I can. But I sort of doubt it. I 
really expected to like this stuff, since I have a broad range of 
appreciabilities (just coined as I type). But I'm going to struggle through 
it. 
 
If anyone is in the western NY area and wants to stop by for what I can 
promise is a unique experience - I'm more than willing to share. 
- -- 
 

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From: Paul Mansour <pmansour at mansours.com.au>
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 13:52:31 -0700
Subject: Brew fridge thermostat

G'day all, 
 
I suppose this question is specifically for Australian readers but 
others may be able to give me some helpful hints. 
 
I have recently started brewing lagers and have a fridge which is 
plugged into a temperature controller kit that I bought from Dick Smith 
Electronics and put together.  It uses a pre-built digital thermometer 
(which has an alarm function) and some other electronics.  The kit part 
picks up the alarm signal and switches a relay which supplies power to 
whatever you plug into it.  The setup works very well - when it is 
working.  I have had the kit checked out by Dick Smiths and they say it 
is okay.  The problem is that every so often the thermometer goes wonky 
and "loses" the temperature that you have set.  This means that the 
fridge either stays on permanently resulting in very cold wort or turns 
itself off, which is worse.  Therefore I can't leave it unattended for 
more than a day.  I have noticed that it seems to lose its setting when 
the relay/fridge turns on.  When it doesn't have anything plugged into 
it it seems okay.  This makes me believe electrical noise may be the 
problem.  I think the easiest solution would be to buy a pre-built 
thermostat but don't know where to get one from.  I have noticed they 
are available in US home brew shops but my local knows nothing about 
them.  Anyway, (sorry for making this so long) if anyone knows where and 
how much, or has any other suggestion please email me. 
 
I hate acronyms but TIA! 
 
Paul Mansour, 
Sydney, Australia 
 
P.S. What the heck does "yadda" mean? 
 
EMAIL:  pmansour at mansours.com.au 
 

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From: Rob Moline <brewer at kansas.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 23:27:17 -0500
Subject: Megas/ Shane / Doesn't Matter

                        The Jethro Gump Report 
 
>From: John Wilkinson <jwilkins at imtn.tpd.dsccc.com> 
>Subject: Mega brewers 
 That said, the real test is in the drinking.  If it 
>is good beer why should I care if it is made by a mega? 
 
>The real question is, do you like the beer? 
 
        Amen! And on this point ALL is settled.... 
 
Shane- You aren't the only one ..I get the whole deal twice a day.......have 
tried to set it down to once an issue,..... but can't seem to get it done.... 
 
Doesn't Matter Who Said It- 
        It's Called the Homebrew Digest...It relates to "Beer, Homebrewing, 
and Related Issues.."..... 
        When they change the format, I'll change my input..... 
Jethro 
 
Cheers! 
Rob Moline 
Little Apple Brewing Company 
Manhattan, Kansas 
 
"The more I know about beer, the more I realize I need to know more about 
beer!"
 

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From: davidh at melbpc.org.au (David Hill)
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 19:04:42 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [none]

Brewers all, 
 
I have had a mail requests for info on the Archimedes pump 
powered RIMS system that my brew partner and I use. 
 
For them and others who may be interested 
 here follows a re-post with some additions that 
address some specific questions generated by the first 
post. 
 
============================ 
 
 
David Hill of Melbourne Australia (davidh at melbpc.org.au) 
describes a RIMS system using an Archimedes pump powered 
by a minuscule 6volt hobbyists' model motor. 
 
 
 
Follows crude ASCII 
 
 
|        |M|        | 
|        | |        | 
|        : :        | 
|========|=|========| 
|        | |        | 
|        | |        | 
|--------| |--------| 
|   #### |*| ####   | 
|____________________= drain tap 
 
 
legend 
| walls of tun 
: perforation in vertical pipe for return flow 
== liquor level 
- -- false bottom 
|M| 6 volt motor inside 30mm vertical pipe 
| | 30mm pipe mounted in centre of circular tun 
## coiled 2000w element 
|*| propeller connected by vertical shaft to motor 
 
 
Our tun is an old domestic water boiler made of copper. 
 
The propeller is cut from dog food tin lid. 
 
Our motor is from an electric typewriter other systems use 
motors purchassed from thelocal hobby shop. 
 
False bottom is 1/4" copper wire screen overlain with 
copper gauze fly wire both held together by a ring 
of PVC pipe split lengthwise and wrapped around 
the whole thing as a retaining clip. 
 
The PVC ring makes a neat seal to the walls of the tun. 
 
False bottom rests on 1/2" slices cut from PVC pipe and 
siliconed to tun base. 
 
Whole is wrapped with 1/4" polystyrene foam and light 
aluminium sheeting for insulation. An alloy lid completes 
the system. 
 
 
With this system we process 10-13 kg of grain. Liquor 
gently flows from centre of tun up the vertical pipe 
and out over the top of the grain bed. 
 
The motor is controlled by variable speed controller 
from the hobby shop. 
 
Important to start motor very slow and then steadily 
build up speed; otherwise you can compact the grain bed. 
 
Element is controlled by an electronic thermostat with 
 the sensor mounted beneath the propeller and only 5mm 
from the element. We have never had scorching problems 
& have no build up on the element. 
 
As an extra safeguard against scorching, there is an 
electronic simmerstat in series with the thermostat. 
The simmerstat is set to allow power to the element 
on a 4sec on and 1 sec off cycle. 
 
I suspect that the simmerstat is un necessary, provided 
the pump keeps running scorching should be no trouble. 
 
This tiny Archimedes pump runs continuously during the 
 mash and the grain bed is not touched after the 
initial doughing in. 
 
Pump is turned off at sparge stage. 
 
The vertical pipe has several perforations and a 
sliding sleeve on the outside. The sleeve is used 
to cover the perforations during dough-in thus 
preventing grain falling down the pipe and clogging 
up the system. The sleeve also adjusts the height 
of the liquor return point to just above the liquor 
level. 
 
If one is worried about HSA problems during mashing 
this sleeve could be set so that the return flow is 
below the surface of the liquor. To do so however 
would render the floating dispersal plate inoperative 
and create potential for channel formation within the 
grain bed. 
 
The 3/8" perforations are drilled at a tangent to the 
surface of the pipe. 
 
A plastic ring internal dia 2.5", external dia 7" floats 
on top of the liquor as a rotating dispersal plate. 
 The return flow from the angled 
perforations hits this ring and causes it to gently rotate 
thus evenly dispersing the liquor over the top to the 
mash. This prevents channelling. 
 
During the sparge we run the sparge water from a 
hand-held vinyl hose onto this floating ring. 
 
An automatic gentle hands-off dispersal of the 
sparge water could be achieved by plumbing the 
sparge water into the central riser pipe below 
the motor and above the grain level. 
 
The sparge water would then exit via the same 
perforations used by the Archimedes pump onto 
the dispersing ring and across the surface of 
the mash. 
 
With this system the pump needs to deliver a 
head of only 0.5cms in order to successfully 
circulate the sweet wort. 
 
For large rapid temperature changes the simmerstat 
can be set to continuously on. 
 
Temperature changes are in fact rather slow. 
This causes us no concern since we can leave 
the unit un-attended while we get on with 
serious business of critical appraisal of earlier 
brews. 
 
We mash in with 2 lit per kilo then after the protein rest 
add another 2.2 lit hot water per kilo of grain to expedite 
the temp rise to mashing temp. 
 
Once desired temp has been achieved, even steady temperature 
is maintained throughout the grain bed within 0.5 deg C. 
 
I have left the system quietly mashing away all 
night with no discernible (at least to my palate) adverse 
results. For overnight a blanket over the masher reduces 
potential heat loss. 
 
This system;- 
*** is simple, 
*** not expensive to construct, 
*** requires little technical skills to construct 
*** requires very little operator attention 
*** requires minimum in automatic control gizmos. 
*** is very gentle on the wort 
*** worst case system failure won't threaten house or person 
*** provides very stable accurate temperatures 
*** no boiling liquids left un attended. 
*** produces very clear wort 
*** safe to leave unattended 
*** relatively cheap to construct 
 
Credit for the original design concept belongs to Les Howard of South 
Oakleigh, Melbourne Australia. 
 
David Hill :-)> 
 

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From: wrm at ccii.co.za (Wouter de Waal)
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 13:17:31 +0200
Subject: Interesting letter :-)

Hi all 
 
I got this message off another list, where it was posted from another list, 
this might soon reach good times proportions :-) 
 
Sorry, no homebrew content, but I thought you might like it :-) 
> 
>To the faithful beer drinkers out there... 
> --------------------------------------------------------------- 
> 
>The following is a letter sent to Miller Brewing Company. 
> 
>Miller Brewing Company Milwaukee, Wisconsin 53201 
> 
>Dear Sir or Madam, 
> 
>I have been a drinker of Miller beer's for many years (actually, ever 
>since that other company donated a big chunk of change to Handgun Control Inc.
>back in the mid 80's). 
> 
>Initially, my beer of choice was Lite, but some time in mid 1990 while 
>in Honduras I switched to MGD smuggled up from Panama. Now, for nearly six 
>years, I have been a faithful drinker of MGD. 
> 
>For these past years, I have come to expect certain things from Genuine 
>Draft. I expect that whenever I see that gold can of MGD, I am about 
>ready to enjoy a great, smooth brew. 
> 
>But wait! Sometime around the first of the year, my beloved MGD changed 
>colors, so to speak. That familiar gold can was no longer gold! Knowing 
>that I am, by nature, somewhat resistant to change, I forced myself to 
>reserve judgment on the new can design. 
> 
>Gradually, I grew to appreciate the new label. 
> 
>That was until about May of this year. That was when I discovered 
>(empirically) that I really didn't like the new design. Further 
>investigation of the cause of my distress resulted in the following 
>observations: 
> 
>1. Your cans are made of aluminum. 
>2. Aluminum is a great conductor of energy. 
>3. Your beer is commonly consumed outside, and thus, the container may 
>be exposed to sunlight. 
>4. Sunlight striking the can causes radiant warming of the surface of 
>the can. 
>5. The resultant heat (energy) is transferred through the aluminum, by 
>conduction, to the contents of the can (the beer). 
>6. Warm beer sucks. 
> 
>This is a process that can be observed in just about any beer. However, 
>this process is significantly accelerated in MGD because you painted the 
>damn can black!!! 
> 
>Who was the rocket scientist that designed the new graphic for the can 
>and implemented the change right before summer? Granted, this process may 
>not be real evident up there in Wisconsin, but down here in Oklahoma (OR 
>TEXAS) where the summers are both sunny and hot, this effect is quite a 
>problem. There's no telling what the folks in Texas and Arizona are 
having to >put up with. 
> 
>Knowing that you would probably not address this issue unless you had 
>firm evidence of a problem, I and several other subjects conducted extensive 
>experimentation. The results of these experiments are listed below. 
> 
>The experiments were conducted over two days on the deck next to my 
>pool.  The study included seven different types of beer (leftovers from 
a >party the previous weekend) that were initially chilled to 38 (and then left
>exposed to sunlight for different lengths of time.  These beers were 
>sampled by the test subjects at different intervals.  The subjects, all 
>normally MGD drinkers, were asked at each sampling interval their 
>impressions of the different beers. 
> 
>The length of time between the initial exposure to sunlight and the 
>point where the subject determined the sample undrinkable (the Suckpoint) was 
>determined. The average ambient temperature for the trials was 95 
>degrees F. 
> 
>Beer Type                       Average Suckpoint (min) 
>Miller Lite (white can)                 6.2 
>Bud (white can)                         5.5 
>Bud Lite (silver can)                   5.2 
>Ice House (blue and silver can)         4.4 
>Coors Lite (silver can)                 4.1 
>Miller Genuine Draft (black can)        2.8 
>Coors (gold can)                        0.1 
> 
>It was evident that the color of the can directly correlates to the 
>average suckpoint, except for Coors which was pretty much determined to 
suck >at any point. 
> 
>It is to be hoped that you will consider re-designing your MGD cans. 
>All beer drinkers that are not smart enough to keep their beer in the shade 
>will thank you. 
> 
>Sincerely, 
> 
>Bradley Lee 
>Beer-drinker 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>I have a friend that works for Miller Brewing in Milwaukee and she knew 
>about the letter sent in by Bradley Lee. She sent me the Miller response and 
>it appears below. She says they have had a lot of fun with this guys 
>letter. 
> 
>Enjoy. 
> 
>------------------------------------------------------ 
> 
>Dear Bradley Lee, 
> 
>Thank you for your letter and your concern about the MGD can color as it 
>relates to premature warming of the contents. Like you, we at Miller 
>Beer take beer drinking very seriously. To that end, we have taken your 
>letter and subsequent experiment under serious consideration. Outlined below 
>are our findings and solution to your problem. May we add that we have had 
>similar letters from other loyal beer drinkers, mostly from the Southern 
>United States. 
> 
>First, let us congratulate you on your findings. Our analysis tends to 
>agree with yours regarding Coors. It certainly does suck at about any 
>temperature. 
> 
>Now, it was our intentions when redesigning the MGD can to create better 
>brand identity and brand loyalty. Someone in marketing did some kind of 
>research and determined we needed to redesign the can.  You will be 
>please to know, we have fired that idiot and he is now reeking havoc at a 
>pro-gun control beer manufacturer. The design staffer working in cahoots with 
>the marketing idiot was also down-sized. 
> 
>However, once we realized this mistake, to undo it would have been even 
>a bigger mistake. So, we took some other actions. From our market 
>research, we found a difference between Northern beer drinker and Southern 
beer
>drinkers. 
> 
>Beer drinkers in the South tend to drink slower than beer drinkers in 
>the North. We are still researching why that is. Anyway, at Miller Beer, it 
>was never our intention to have someone take more than 2.5 minutes to enjoy 
>one of our beers. We pride ourselves in creating fine, smooth, quick 
>drinking beers and leave the making of sissy, slow sipping beers to that 
>Sam guy in Boston. 
> 
>However, it is good to know that you feel our Miller Lite can last as 
>long as 6 minutes. However, may we suggest in the future you try consuming at 
>least two in that time frame. 
> 
>From your letter, we had our design staff work 'round the clock to come up 
>with a solution that would help not just MGD but all our fine Miller 
>products. 
> 
>We hope you have recently noticed our solution to your problem. We found 
>that the hole in the top of the can was not big enough for quick 
>consumption. 
> 
>So, we have now introduced the new "Wide Mouth" cans. We hope this will 
>solve all your problems. Might I also suggest that if you want to get 
>the beer out of the can even faster, you can poke a hole on the side near 
>the bottom, hold your finger over it, open the can, tip it to your mouth and 
>then pull your finger off the hole. This is a common way to drink beer 
>at parties and impress your friends. This technique is known as 
>"shot-gunning". 
> 
>You should like the name. 
> 
>Again, thank you for your letter and bring to our attention that there 
>might be other beer drinkers taking more that 2.5 minutes to drink our 
>beers. Let me assure you that I am have our advertising department work 
>on campaign to solve this problem, too. 
> 
>Sincerely, 
> 
>Tom B. Miller 
>Public Relations 
>Miller Brewing Co. 
> 
>P.S. And remember, at Miller Beer we do favor gun control, too. So 
>please use two hands when firing. 
> 
> 
> 
- -- 
Wouter de Waal        Phone : +27 21 683 5490 
Development Engineer  Fax   : +27 21 683 5435 
CCII Systems 
Kenilworth, South Africa 
 

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