Homebrew Digest Wednesday, 16 October 1996 Number 2233
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FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Mike Donald, Digest Janitor-in-training
Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!
Contents:
Plaster! (Douglas Thomas)
blue corn meal (Gregory King)
Protein rest (Anton Schoenbacher)
IPA hops (Delano Dugarm)
Mash THIS! (Carl Hattenburg)
World Class Beer (Rob Reed)
Jame Spence fired from AHA (Jim Liddil)
Parallel Wort Chiller design drawings (Ken Sullivan)
Hot side areation - was wort chiller (Ken Sullivan)
Re: Ain't CaCl2, sm(all) grain brews,un-bunged-up bungs, ain't pH, Cervesas Cancun ("David R. Burley")
Calcium and Mash pH ("David R. Burley")
Counter pressure filling/'Hard' cider (TEX28 at aol.com)
Small Batches / Distilled Water Yeast Storage (KennyEddy at aol.com)
Re: Grains Storage - whats best? (Edward J. Steinkamp)
O2 in wort ((Bill Giffin))
IPA (Spencer W Thomas)
Imperial Stout ((danny))
Re: Oxygen in the wort (Dennis Davison)
Going All-Grain... (lheavner at tcmail.frco.com)
Re: Oxygen in the wort (hollen at vigra.com)
protein grains (TMCASTLE at am.pnu.com)
re: Yeast Storage under distilled water (Dave Whitman)
Stout recipe? (John Penn)
Re: A really cool immersion wort chiller/HSA ("Frederick Hooper")
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Douglas Thomas <thomasd at uchastings.edu>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 07:51:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Plaster!
Regarding the mashability of plaster, I would say nil! But, it was used
in wine making both as a fining agent, and a de-acidifyer. This is all
historical though. I don't think that any wineries are still using this
method (though someone will prove me wrong). But, if you would like to
try mashing out plaster, who knows, maybe you'll create the next craze,
fermented mineral water.
Just my 2 cents
Doug Thomas
Thomasd at oxy.edu
Return to table of contents
From: Gregory King <GKING at ARSERRC.Gov>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 11:11:00 -0500 (EST)
Subject: blue corn meal
Greetings HBDers,
While we're on this corn thread, I was wondering if any of you have used
blue corn meal as an adjunct, and if so, what sort of flavor and color
qualities does it add to a beer?
Thanks,
Greg King
gking at arserrc.gov
Philadelphia, PA
Return to table of contents
From: Anton Schoenbacher <aschoenb at eecs.wsu.edu>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 96 8:34:09 PDT
Subject: Protein rest
What grains require a protein rest. Is there some formula that
gives temps and times ?
- --
*****Anton Schoenbacher*****aschoenb at eecs.wsu.edu*****
Return to table of contents
From: Delano Dugarm <adugarm at worldbank.org>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 13:14:29 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: IPA hops
I'm convinced that Columbus is the best hop to use for
the Wall of Hops (TM) that is essential for an American IPA. My
last attempt at an all-Columbus IPA had an amazingly strong
aroma, deeply piney and citrusy (more lime, I think, than
grapefruit). The hop flavor was so intense it had an oily
character to it.
Dave Brockington suggests in his BT article that caramel
malts are out of place in an American IPA. I disagree, because I
think that the caramel sweetness is a good counterpoint to the
strong, sticky bitterness that a high hopping rate gives.
I don't mean to suggest that Columbus is the only hop to
use. Hopdevil, for instance, combines Tettnang with Cascade, and
Tupper's Hop Pocket uses Mt. Hood. Further afield, I've been
surprised by how well an all-Saaz IPA turned out.
Delano DuGarm
adugarm at worldbank.org
Arlington, VA
Return to table of contents
From: Carl Hattenburg <CHattenburg at Perstorp-us.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 11:50:33 -0400
Subject: Mash THIS!
>>>Has anyone ever made beer from plaster? Can it be mashed?
Be sure to throw in some old nails too, as nutrients for the yeast.
Also, be careful how you sparge, or it could set up like plaster.
- - Carlos,
(e) CHattenburg at Perstorp-us.com (e) CHatten at Erols.com
(www) http://theweeds.smxcorp.com/carlos/carlos.html
Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the
leather straps. -- Emo Phillips
Return to table of contents
From: Rob Reed <rhreed at icdc.delcoelect.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 11:14:34 -0400 (CDT)
Subject: World Class Beer
Dave writes:
> According to Malting and Brewing Science ( p600 1st ed) mouthfeel is not
> influenced by dextrins but by the proteins in the beer. In my opinion it
> parallels very closely the ability to form a head and may have to do with the
> formation of microbubbles in the mouth which have some structure. Try some
> wheat malt in your next brew and see what you think.
>
> Even though it has been shown that dextrins do not play a part in mouthfeel,
I
> think the dextrins provide a taste sensation which I have never seen
described
> scientifically and I can only call richness or in some low hopped lagers a
> "breadiness.".
I have to disagree: dextrins do affect mouthfeel. They do in my beers
anyway. Clearly dextrins aren't the sole contributor to mouthfeel or
body. I believe MW proteins are the dominant factor. Dextrins *do*
increase the viscosity of the beer, which affects mouthfeel. I have
first hand experience, in that I have been known to tweek keg beers by
adding maltodextrin powder solution to decrease a sharp hop bitterness
and add smoothness. FWIW, I find 5% flaked barley adds a wonderful
creaminess and enhances head retention, and body without overwhelming
flavor profile.
_____
Mike (I believe?) writes:
> Hey, just because it is brewed by Coors doesn't mean it is not good.
> Besides, Red Hook is Budweiser, Strohs brews a lot of BBC's stuff, etc,
> etc.
I don't believe AB *brews* any Redhook products, do they? Anyway, IMO
it's not the major breweries' facilities that are responsible for
product profiles, it's the *recipe formulation*. Does anyone out there
believe that the AB, Coors and Miller brewing staff are not capable of
brewing world class beers? If one can make defect-free light beer, one
can make Pale Ale and Helles.
When I am on brewery tours, I always ask the tourguide why they don't
throttle back the corn and rice and dial up the malt and hops. When I
toured Coors in Golden, I "learned" from the tourguide: "Winterfest is
our strongest beer, and is technically a Stout" Koooooky!
Cheers,
Rob Reed
Return to table of contents
From: Jim Liddil <JLIDDIL at AZCC.Arizona.EDU>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 9:32:58 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Jame Spence fired from AHA
This may be old news to some. James Spence the AHA administrator has been
fired by AHA President Karen Barela. No word as yet to the reason(s) for the
action.
Return to table of contents
From: Ken Sullivan <kj at nts.gssc.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 10:37:46 -0600
Subject: Parallel Wort Chiller design drawings
Hi all gadgeteers,
I stayed up late last night and drew images of the wort chiller
everyone had such a difficult time envisioning from my description.
They are in a uuencoded TIFF format, 4 images, about 8KB compressed
each. I don't want to fill up the HBD with uuencoded data, nor do
I have an ftp site I can put them on... any volunteers? But
if you are interested, send me a private email and I will email them
to you. It was kinda difficult trying to draw it even with it in
my hands!! These pictures are worth 4,000 words each ;-)
If anyone builds this or republishes this, give me the credit.
KJ Sullivan
kj at nts.gssc.com
Return to table of contents
From: Ken Sullivan <kj at nts.gssc.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 10:44:26 -0600
Subject: Hot side areation - was wort chiller
Philip DiFalco wrote about causing hot side areation during
lifting the chiller..
Nope, 'areation' implies introducing air into the wort.
that I would never do to my wonderful wort.
Remember, the operative word is 'gently'.
That reminds me of a person whom I had instructed on
the proper way to construct a Indian Pipe. I had
stated 'slowly, by hand, in prayer' ... he used a
belt sander.
KJ
Return to table of contents
From: "David R. Burley" <103164.3202 at CompuServe.COM>
Date: 16 Oct 96 12:51:32 EDT
Subject: Re: Ain't CaCl2, sm(all) grain brews,un-bunged-up bungs, ain't pH, Cervesas Cancun
Brewsters:
From: Regan Pallandi <reganp at iris.bio.uts.EDU.AU>
> First, I have found a jar of dried CaCl2 (not a hydrated form) on our lab
> shelves. It is stable in air (ie doesn't turn to slush when exposed to
> air) and has a MW of 111. Is there any reason not to use it to add Ca to
> brewing water?
Well, Regan I'd be more than a little suspicious of that non-deliquescent*
calcium chloride unless Sydney is drier humidity-wise than I remember.
Cotton and WIlkinson "Advanced Inorganic Chemistry" says " Although calcium
salts are usually hydrated and the anhydrous salts are
deliquescent*............"
Chemical Rubber Handbook shows CaCl2.xH20, where x = 1 or 6 as being
deliquescent and for x = 2 it says nothing ( likely an omission).
I know CaCl2 on an alumina support is used as a drying agent in glass tubes
through which air has to flow and in drying chambers. It usually has some
cobalt chloride mixed in so it looks blue when dry and pink when wet.
* deliquescence is the ability to take up moisture form the air and dissolve in
the water absorbed.
My advice don't use it. It is probably not CaCl2 or at least not pure CaCl2
despite what the label says. Go to your HB dealer and get some food grade stuff
or order it from a chemical supply house and make arrangements with your
employer to expense account the purchase so you won't appear to be stealing it.
A few pennies worth of CaCl2 is not worth risking your life or reputation.
> Second, can nitric acid be used to acidify mash/sparge
> water? Or is there some particularly hideous taste associated with it?
NItric acid is not suitable for acidifying your mash/sparge water. Use a food
grade acid like lactic or phosphoric acid.
- -------------------------------------------------------------------
Anton Schoenbacher has just completed his first partial mash and wants to go to
all-grain and asks:
I think I want to brew smaller batches so I can do it
more often (like 2-3 gallons) any body have advice pertaining
to this, anybody like brewing small instead of large or vice
versa, let me know.
Anton,
Everyone I know asks the opposite question - how can I brew larger batches? It
takes just about as long to brew a large batch as to brew a small batch. And
one thing about homebrew, it is ready to drink when the last bottle is gone. My
advice, start small for the first batch or so, but think big!
- ------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Marshall asks:
"How does one remove one of those bungs from the top of the (5l mini-keg) keg
after
it is emptied?"
I too was puzzled about how to remove this bung from the 5l party keg. I used a
pair of heavy duty needle nosed pliers, Put one nose into the hole and the
other
gripped the edge, pushed the pliers toward the center of the hole ( to release
one edge of the bung) and then I pulled like a dentist and it worked great.
Didn't damage the bung or the keg. I recovered the plastic part of the bung and
re-used everything.
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
From: Michael Mahler <mmahler at shiva.com>
,,,,, since I'm an extract brewer, I was wondering
what the preferred PH is?
The pH is not important if you are a pure extract brewer, since the pH is
adjusted so that the mash is pH = 5.2 - 5.3 for its optimum saccharification
rate. In the extract this is done for you. pH of the beer is controlled by the
acids generated during fermentation by in large. I can suggest that you add
salts to your water, like calcium and a small amount of magnesium sulfate to
help brighten the taste from the hops in British style beers, but the pH has
nothing to do with it.
- -------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Rust says:
" Well, gotta run. I'm going to be doing some quasi-investigative reporting
of my own. "The Beers of Cancun".
Don't miss Tres Equis, the blonde variety, or Negra Modelo and have fun!
- -------------------------------------------------------------
Keep on brewin'
Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3203 at compuserve.com
Return to table of contents
From: "David R. Burley" <103164.3202 at CompuServe.COM>
Date: 16 Oct 96 12:51:37 EDT
Subject: Calcium and Mash pH
Brewsters:
***Just to make it clear to those on the HBD who are sensitive to argument and
discussion. We are not disagreeing below, rather discussing and refining the
subject of Calcium and mash pH .***
- ----------------
Bill Giffin writes:
>>>Dave B says:
The simple answer is measure the mash pH and add calcium sulfate or
chloride or carbonate as needed.
<<<
Bill Giffin says
":Why not use an acid rest or add lactic acid? Is the key calcium or is it
having the pH be in the proper range? I tend to believe that having the
pH in the proper range is far more important then the amount of calcium
in the mash. "
Dave B replies -
Please notice I said "simple". acid rests are not that simple for some, as they
can take some hours, depending on the water. Lactic acid is OK, but it does not
contribute to alpha amylase enzyme stability.
If the enzymes are stable, getting the optimum saccharification rate isn't so
important and one can stray outside the "optimum pH" range. Remember pH = 5.2
- -5.3 is optimum only for the saccharification rate not the proteolysis rate (
which I believe can be more important for clear beers than a fast
saccharification).
British malts have low nitrogen content, so proteolysis optimization is not
important and these malts have a low amylase enzyme content, so optimizing the
rate of saccharification is important. With lager malts, almost exactly the
opposite situation applies - high protein, high enzyme content. These malts do
deserve a different focus from the British malts.
Both pH and calcium are important. pH for the rate of saccharification and
other enzyme steps and calcium for the alpha amylase stability.
But as I said below, if you have a malt with LOTS of enzymes, then both of
these
issues are less important. If you have soft, low alkalinity, non-bicarbonate
water, the natural mash pH will come to the 5.6 -5.7 range just like in Plzen.
This will be OK for saccharification and other enzyme reactions if the mash
time is temperature staged ( either by decoction or temperature staged
infusion)
and held long enough at saccharification. Remember however, you are at the
mercy of your maltster and the water company.
- -----------------
>>>Dave B:
These pH numbers and ppm numbers may be a result of the British
concern for producing sugars efficiently from a low protein malt.
<<<
Bill Giffin says:
"I have taken British malt and acidified it with lactic acid and managed
to get good efficiency from this malt with only about 7 ppm of calcium.
My water is softer then Pilsen by about 5 ppm. So is it calcium or is it
pH that we have to have to have an efficient mash? "
Dave B replies:
The short answer to cover *all* cases is - both.
A deleterious effect of low calcium and high pH is most noticeable in a malt
with low enzyme content mashed at a high temperature. Pilzen malts and other
pale (not pale ale) malts obviously work OK in this environment because they
have lots of enzymes, since they weren't so highly modified nor heated to such
a
high temperature during the drying stage at the maltster as the pale ale malts
on which most of our guidelines are based.
What do you call "good" efficiency ( I routinely get in the 90s) and what was
your mash temperature
( I routinely operate at the high end)? British malts, especially those low in
enzymes, suffer the most from a low calcium content and high mash temperature
and may give poor efficiency and a more fermentable wort than expected because
the alpha amylase is less stable than in a higher calcium environment. Ergo,
efficiency suffers if the alpha amylase disappears before the starch is
completely converted to soluble carbohydrates . The beta amylase is long gone
by
this time, of course, and because the remaining starch is not converted ( lower
than expected OG) by the alpha amylase to predominantly (80/20) non-fermentable
dextrins, the FG is lower than expected at the high end of the saccharification
range.
I wish I had a chart that showed the effect of calcium on alpha amylase
stability as a function of temperature in an actual mash. My comments are based
on reading, comments of others and my experience.
- ---------------------
>>>Dave B:
Czech Pilsen is typically run at pH = 5.6 to 5.7 which contributes to
some extent some higher tannin content and slower saccharification rates.
The low calcium of Plzen (water) will not stabilize the alpha amylase as well
as
50 ppm, but in a high enzyme pilzen malt this may not be necessary.
<<<<
Bill Giffin says:
"Boy, I have had at least 15 different Czech pils and very few of them
have the degree of tannins that I can even notice."
DaveB replies:
I agree, that's why I said "to some extent". Most true Pilzens use a lager malt
low in husk tannins, but the high pH in the absence of calcium does contibute
some. It is definitely not an outstanding taste and I didn't mean to imply
that.
It was just an aside comment. I do not have literary proof of that in hand,
and,
as you indicated, it is more noticeable in some than others.
- ---------------------------
Bill G says:
"My saccharification rate is no problem and when I brew a Czech style pils
I only add a bit of lactic acid to the sparge water to drop the pH of the
sparge water to 5.7."
Dave B replies: So do I. I use about 1/16 tsp of 80% Lactic Acid in four
gallons
and it works well.
- --------------------------
>>>
50 ppm will do all of the above and seems to be a good number for most
brews,
<<<
Bill G says:
"Not for a Czech pils"
Dave B replies: I agree, but notice I said "most" brews which I think was the
point of the original discussion. I believe I used the Czech Pils discussion as
a counterpoint to normal practice and what we read in most books.
I use soft water and a very low calcium and mash at pH = 5.6 -5.7 for a Czech
Pils just like I indicated above, however, a good guideline for most
fermentations is 50 ppm. It is a guideline and not a hard fast rule. That is,
it offers a safe place to start.
- ---------------------------
Thanks, Bill, for the opportunity to expand the discussion.
Keep on brewin'
Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3203 at compuserve.com
Return to table of contents
From: TEX28 at aol.com
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 12:57:29 -0400
Subject: Counter pressure filling/'Hard' cider
Good Day All-
Kegged at 29 psi with room temp. around 68F for a CO2 saturation of approx.
2.6. Going to pick up my counter-pressure filler set up tomorrow. Can I fill
bottles at this pressure? (Grolsch 16 oz. type) I don't have the means to
chill my keg, and would like to fill some bottles and refrigerate for Eagles
game Sunday. Will the carbonation level remain constant? Will I spent Sunday
at the E.R. having glass shards removed?
Thanks, Chris
_______________________________
Bought a gallon of farm fresh apple cider, tossed in a 1/4 c. slurry from
primary of German Alt, and stuck on an airlock. A week later came out on the
sweet side (certainly not a 'hard' cider), but remarkably tasty served cold.
Will be trying it warm tonight with a little nutmeg, ginger & cinnamon.
Thanks, Chris
Return to table of contents
From: KennyEddy at aol.com
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 13:06:29 -0400
Subject: Small Batches / Distilled Water Yeast Storage
One aspect of batch scaling which was mentioned but not explored is the
apparent non-linearity of batch scaling. A while back there was a thread on
this topic; how to make 10 gal vs 5 gal from the same recipe. Seems like I
remember that you basically double the base malt, but dark malts (and other
adjuncts?) go more like 1.5x, but no explanation was offerred or at least
agreed upon. Does this mean that to do 2.5 gal, you'd use 0.57x the dark
grain of a 5-gal batch? ANyone with experience wanna chime in?
*****
A very informative and practical dissertation onthe sterile distilled water
yeast storage method (SDWYSM) is available at The Brewery,
http://alpha.rollanet.org/library.html. Looks too easy (sort of).
*****
Return to table of contents
From: Edward J. Steinkamp <ejs0742 at dop.fse.ca.boeing.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 10:35:52 PDT
Subject: Re: Grains Storage - whats best?
My wife has a book on bread making which addresses the issue of
storing flour. Flour stored in air-tight containers in the
freezer apparently keeps the longest. If one assumes that grain
is simply course flour, perhaps the recommendations in this book
apply.
I have stored grain in thick plastic bags in the freezer and
have not seen any measurable drop in mash efficiency, nor have I
detected any off flavors associated with frozen grain. One thing
is that it is more difficult to perform a single step infusion
mash because the initial water temp has to be around 180F, which
may kill off some of your enzymes. I try to remove the grains
from the freezer the day before and let them warm to room
temperature. For three or four years, I've been buying 25 kilo
bags of grain and storing them for up to six months without any
noticeable deterioration of quality.
Some caveats:
1. I have to invest in a sight tube or some other device to
accurately measure volume so that I can accurately calculate mash
efficiency. Right now I have marks on the outside of my kettle,
but, I don't think this is accurate enough to detect a small drop
in efficiency.
2. I haven't entered any competitions, so professional judges
have not tasted any of the beers brewed with frozen grains.
Perhaps a judge would be able to detect off flavors that I have
missed. On the other hand I have a lot of friends who are self
proclaimed Northwest beer snobs and they like my beer - except the
pepper beer, nobody liked that one.
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
On the dateline/megabrewer thread,
Perhaps some Government regulation is in order. If a brewery, big
or small, says their beer is a wheat beer it should have a certain
percentage of wheat in it. If somebody wants to sell an IPA, it
should not be a budmillercoors with brown food coloring in it.
Think about it, when you buy an apple pie, the law says that there
has to be some apples in it. Of course the law would have to be
written so that it would not stifle creativity. Additionally, it
could include a provision that ensures a pint of beer in a bar is
actually a pint of beer, kill two birds with one stone. I'm not
a fan of big government, but I also don't like lousy beer. I
really don't like buying something that looks like a mirco-beer
with a fancy label which promises a craft beer, but actually turn
out to be budmillercoors crap.
Ed Steinkamp
Return to table of contents
From: bill-giffin at juno.com (Bill Giffin)
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 13:38:09 cst
Subject: O2 in wort
Good morning all,
With all the talk about aeration of the wort with O2 and air pumps, I
wonder if we are not just reacting to a symptom rather then the real
problem.
Too much O2 is bad for the yeast. "Finally it should be emphasized that
oxygenation must be restricted, otherwise fermentation is too vigorous,
yeast growth excessive, and beer quality suffers." From M&BS 2nd
edition.
So when you hit your wort with the pure stuff don't overdo. Perhaps
don't even bother. Maybe you should use a pump and have just one more
place to harbor bad beer bugs to infect your beer. I have it why not
just fix the problems with you under pitching of the yeast, the variable
temperatures you subject your fermenting beer to, to have the correct
temperature for the yeast you are using and last but not least make sure
that there are enough nutrients in the wort to have happy yeast.
Aerate with a simple and easy to clean 4" bit of 3/8" copper tubing with
a few holes drilled in it. Works great. The only problem I have had
with fermentation was the first of 200+ batches of all grain beers and
that was because of varying the temperature.
Bill
Richmond, Maine
Return to table of contents
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 13:57:58 -0400
Subject: IPA
>>>>> "Larry" == Larry Johnson <Maltster at ix.netcom.com> writes:
Larry> ... I would like to quote "The Real Ale Drinker's
Larry> Almanac" by Roger Protz (published by CAMRA).
Larry> ... excerpted from ... pages 44-45 of the 1991
Larry> Copyright 2nd edition: Worthington White Shield - OG 1.051
Larry> ABV 5.6% IBU 40 - bottle conditioned. (under Comments:)
Larry> "The classic original India Pale Ale,..."
In his new book, "The Ale Trail", Protz has a lot more to say about
the sad state of IPA in Britain, and some hopeful revivalist efforts,
as well as the happy state of IPA in the USA. It's a good read, if a
trifle repetitive in spots.
=Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI (spencer at umich.edu)
Return to table of contents
From: danny at nbnet.nb.ca (danny)
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 15:01:46 -0300
Subject: Imperial Stout
In the Wheeler and Protz book, Brewing Your Own Real At Home, there is a
recipe for Russian Imperial Stout on page 145. They say "Barrel the beer
after fermentation and mature for a year or more." Bottling then is
conducted and the beer is aged for at least another year. Does anyone
know if they specifically mean to age the beer in a wooden barrel to let
it develop character or is it acceptable just to hide it away in a
glass carboy for a year ? Or, do they mean to keg the beer and let it
slowly come into condition ? It finished at 1.027 (start OG 1.102), seems
to have cleared very well after 2 rackings and is thick enough to skate on.
I am wondering if I can wait two years. I would appreciate any thoughts by
post or private email.
Thanks,
Danny
Return to table of contents
From: Dennis Davison <ddavison at execpc.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 13:11:40 +0600
Subject: Re: Oxygen in the wort
Adam, I'm glad you found the article interesting. Because of space
constraints, BT didn't do an adequate job with the master data table.
With everything combined for the split batches, it's hard to follow to
see what was done and how DO levels changed when different methods were
used. A WEB version of the chart is available at
http://www.execpc.com/~ddavison/index.html and should make it clearer
that the amount of effort and time spent using pure oxygen far out ways
other methods to dissolve the same volume.
> I know that we want a large healthy population of yeast but this
> is usually associated with short lag times. As I recall there is little
> discussion of this result and no recommendation.
I was working with basically Homebrew pitching rates. These rates are
rather low compared to commercial operations. I found that DO levels
around 7 or 8 ppm to be the optimal areas homebrewers should shoot for.
Sure the lag times are extended, but once the fermentation begins, it's
vigorous. Dissolving 14 ppm will extent the time before fermentation,
and will also reduce the flocculation capability of your yeast. Levels
around 4 ppm produce sluggish ferments that take much longer to
attenuate and can allow bacteria's to get a foot hold. The more vigorous
the ferment, the more CO2 dissolved and the less sugar available, the
lower the chance to something living it that environment and altering
your flavor.
> To me the article showed that if you own an oxygenator you may as
> well use it but if you don't, save your money! What do you people think?
Several things have to be addressed with this. How do you brew All-grain
or extract ? Do you pour the cooled wort into fermenters? Normal
splashing of wort into a fermenter doesn't cut it. You still have to
shake the fermenter or use another method to increase the DO level. I
hate moving 5 gallons of liquid in glass around no less shaking it.
Basically, the article started as a test to see what levels of DO could
be dissolved, and evolved into testing various methods to see what could
be achieve from each. I would use the Oxygenator or Xgenator any day. I
think I also showed that the use of an aquarium pump and stone will not
generate the results desired. It's a start. More research needs to be
done, and I welcome others to continue where I left off.
- --
Dennis Davison mailto:ddavison at execpc.com
BJCP Representative for the Midwest
BJCP President
http://www.execpc.com/~ddavison/bjcp.html
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From: lheavner at tcmail.frco.com
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 13:52:33 -0500
Subject: Going All-Grain...
Well it had to happen...
I turned 40 and the next thing I knew, a friend and fellow homebrewer
gave me an all-grain kit for a Rauchbeer. (I think she misread it as
raunch beer.) Until recently, I never would have considered
all-grain, but over the past couple years of reading HBD, I have been
getting the itch to move to all-grain. Thanks folks! ;)
Given that I have no experience with all-grain, no experience with
rauchbeer, and only 1 lager under my belt, I am soliciting advice.
Private email would probably be best, but I'll leave it to you.
The kit includes 5# German Pils, 5# German Vienna, and 1.5# German
Rauchmalt. It also contains 1 oz Northern Brewer (bittering) and 0.5
Tettnang (finishing) and Wyeast 2206 Bavarian Lager. It also contains
no directions.
Would anybody care to recommend a mash schedule? (I have a 10gal Gott
cooler w/ Phil's Phalsebottom.) Would a decoction mash be
appropriate/beneficial? How about a fermentation/lagering schedule.
(I have a refrigerator with temp controller.) I may make 4 gallons,
instead of 5 and rely more on first runnings and less on sparge
because my kettle is only 8 gallons and I'm not sure how much I will
like a smoke beer. Any comments? How about a water profile
suggestion? My water is pretty soft or I could build from distilled
if I needed to do so. Any suggestions about what goes with Rauchbeer
or how best to enjoy it are also welcome. Christmas dinner may be a
BarBQue this year. Yummmmm
Lou Heavner - purveyor and imbiber of "old fart ale"
<lheavner at frmail.frco.com>
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From: hollen at vigra.com
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 96 12:06:14 PDT
Subject: Re: Oxygen in the wort
>> Adam RIch, PhD writes:
ARP> How many have read the latest Brewing Techniques article on
ARP> Oxygen levels in the wort? I found this to be very intresting.
ARP> The basic rule of thumb has been to get as much oxygen dissolved
ARP> into the wort at pitching time, or just after pitching time.
ARP> Then the yeast can reproduce, prefrentially, and increase the
ARP> total number of yeast before fermenting the wort. Now this is a
ARP> gross simplification but I think that it captures the essence.
ARP> The article cleaerly shows that useign pure oxygen bubbled into
ARP> the wort gives teh highest levels for dossolved oxygen. No
ARP> surprise there. However, if I recall correctly it also showed
ARP> that the lag times were greater for this high level of dissolved
ARP> oxygen!
No surprise there either, that is if you understand yeast metabolism.
The first phase is the lag phase, and is *aerobic*. The yeast will
take up oxygen and nourish themselves without much population increase
until the oxygen is depleted. The only byproducts at this stage are
H2O and CO2. As soon as oxygen depletion occurs, they go into
fermentation which is an *anaerobic* phase. The cell population will
go up rapidly to a max of about 5 million cells per milliliter and
alcohol and CO2 will be produced. Add more oxygen and you increase
the lag phase, however, when the fermentation starts, you will have
yeast which are in a much healthier state than with less oxygen.
dion
- --
Dion Hollenbeck (619)597-7080x164 Email: hollen at vigra.com
Sr. Software Engineer - Vigra Div. of Visicom Labs San Diego, California
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From: TMCASTLE at am.pnu.com
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 15:23:18 -0400
Subject: protein grains
Hey,
Now that we all have the differnces between pale malt, pale ale
malt, lager malt and pils malt under our belts (so to speak), what
grains do people prefer for adding head retention-ish proteins to
the brew... flaked barley? malted wheat? unmalted wheat?
If you post a reply to this, please include asummary of the
different effects each has on other attributes of the beer (mouth
feel, taste, haze...yada yada).
Thanks.
Now for a thought experiment. What if you take a very low AA hop,
say a Liberty 2.2%AA and use it for bittering - a full 90 min boil.
There is only a miniscule amount of alphas so the bittering would be
almost non-existent and the aroma properties would be
well-volatilized from the long time at high temperature. Would you
have the heart of the hops? If so, what's in there?
Brew happy,
tom castle
the zen of homebrewing
http://www.netcom.com/~tmcastle
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From: Dave Whitman <dwhitman at rohmhaas.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 16:34:35 -0700
Subject: re: Yeast Storage under distilled water
In HBD #2232, Michael A. Owings asked about long term storage of yeast
under distilled water.
I recently did a writeup with detailed procedures on how to store yeast
this way. The article is archived in the technical library on the
Brewery Web site:
http://alpha.rollanet.org/library/SterileDW1096.html
It's fairly long, so I won't waste digest bandwidth; if anyone's
interested, either visit the web site or drop me email for a copy.
(Michael, I sent you a copy already)
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From: John Penn <john_penn at jhuapl.edu>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 16:50:23 +0000
Subject: Stout recipe?
I found a recipe for Chocolate Stout on the Cats Meow and loved it.
After looking for another extract/grain stout recipe with chocolate, I
want to try something based on Mocha Java Stout and Ursa Major Stout
from the Cat's Meow and some advice from AlK. This is definately not a
sweet stout like the other Chocolate stout I made and even though I am
trying for a more bitter style I'm worried that the following may be too
bitter after factoring in the chocolate bitterness. Also, I'm wondering
if I should try to increase the body by substituting some Laaglander
extract or adding some maltodextrin. Any ideas or advice on the
following: TIA
Ursa Mocha Java Stout
5 Gallons OG~1.073 IBU 55+
6.6# liquid light malt extract
2# dry light malt extract
1# crystal malt 90L
1# chocolate malt
1/4# black patent
1/2# roasted barley
4 oz cocoa (12 TBs)
Bittering hops 22-23 HBU
Finish Hops 1oz Willamette, Fuggles, or Cascade 5-10 mins
Standard extract/specialty grain procedure with 2 gallon boil.
John Penn
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From: "Frederick Hooper" <fred at UMS1.Lan.McGill.CA>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 16:59:39 EST5EDT
Subject: Re: A really cool immersion wort chiller/HSA
Hi All,
I am still fairly new at brewing. I built an immersion chiller also
but after reading other peoples views on this, I must admit that I am
a little confused.
I understood that bringing down the temperature of the Wort slowly is
a good thing, to avoid the shock of hot wort hitting ice cold water.
My chiller is just copper air conditiioning pipe, coiled with input
and output to the sink. the cold running water cools to 25c (70F?)
in about 25 minutes. I thought that this was good.
Could someone explain why the chiller and if there is an optimum
chill time and why. Sorry about the rookie question, but I built it
on the advise of a friend to help to get rid of a off-taste in my
beer, apparently common to most rookie homebrews. But I never new the
chemistry involved.
Thanks for trouble,
Fred Hooper
Fred at ums1.lan.mcgill.ca
>
> From: Philip DiFalco <sxupjd at fnma.com>
> Date: Tue, 15 Oct 96 10:33:53 -0400
> Subject: RE: A really cool immersion wort chiller/HSA
>
>
> > I designed and made a truly great wort chiller!...
> > <snip>
> > I have timed the chilling and can easily drop boiling wort to
> > 70F in 10 mins by gently lifting the chiller 1/2" up and down...
>
> Despite the gentleness of lifting the chiller up and down, could such a
process
> be a source for Hot Side Aeration (as from the start, the wort is still very
> hot)?
>
Frederick Hooper
Network and Helpdesk Services
Information Systems Resources
McGill University
Internet mail: Fred at ums1.lan.mcgill.ca
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