Homebrew Digest Tuesday, 5 November 1996 Number 2263
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FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Mike Donald, Digest Janitor-in-training
Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!
Contents:
[none] ()
Re: kegging, no-sparge brewery ("David R. Burley")
[something] ? (DAVE BRADLEY IC742 6-7932)
No sparge method, mousies ("David R. Burley")
[none] ()
Chimay yeast ("David R. Burley")
HRB&TS Homebrew Competition (Bunning W Maj ACC/DOTE)
Egg drop soup? ("Ray Robert")
Re: CP fillers ("David R. Burley")
[none] ()
BTU to Watts conversion ((David C. Harsh))
[none] ()
[none] ()
Fermenter-born yeast ("Gregory, Guy J.")
Congradulations to the HBD (almost) (Chris Cooper)
[none] ()
BTU to Watt (Ian Smith)
BT aeration article (Alex Santic)
Re: Carbonator-sanitizer accesry... (David Lamotte/Newcastle/Computer Systems Australia/AU)
[none] ()
[none] ()
[none] ()
[none] ()
[none] ()
[none] ()
[none] ()
[none] ()
[none] ()
[none] ()
[none] ()
Can I use any other GAS tank "bottle" for my C02 ??? ((Raymond P Kasprowicz))
What should I get PIN or BALL valve Soda Kegs ???? ((Raymond P Kasprowicz))
low-calcium (Dave Whitman)
Philly comp. results (JUKNALIS)
coolant flow/O2 toxicity ((A. J. deLange))
Wyeast 1007 question ((George De Piro))
RE: The necessity of a large burner ((George De Piro))
Barleywine ("Darrin Bruce")
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From:
Date:
Subject: [none]
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From: "David R. Burley" <103164.3202 at CompuServe.COM>
Date: 04 Nov 96 15:10:38 EST
Subject: Re: kegging, no-sparge brewery
Brewsters:
Robert Sutton says:
> I am looking into kegging this batch rather than bottling. I am looking =
> for good and economical kegging systems that might fit in a standard =
> refrigerator. Any opinions?
Why not try the 5 liter minikeg route? It isn't a LOT cheaper than kegging
equipment on a volume basis, but the little party kegs will fit easily into
most
refrigerators. You can buy the kegs new or buy Dinkel Acker and other german
beers in these kegs. Bungs and plastic inserts can be purchased at your HB
store
that sells the kegs. Buy the more expensive SS German -made delivery spout. I'm
told by a local HB store owner that the plastic one is a "piece of crap" and he
sent his stock back because of all the complaints. I like mine for delivering a
thick rich head of beer since the small valve gives a lot of foam. It gives
that
"raining" effect as the foam turns to beer just like a nitrogen/CO2 Guiness
delivery. But I wouldn't trade my cornies for them. Also, look into the use of
ball lock, three ( rather than five) gallon cornies. Maybe if you just moved
that roast beef and stopped buying that milk for your kids.........
- ----------------------------------------------------
David Hill asks for comments on his no sparge brewery plans.
My comment - I'll bet the bees and cows will love your sweet, spent grains.
Your cost of malt per gallon of beer could almost double, the rated capacity of
the brewery will go down by nearly a factor of two and you could get into
trouble with the EPA for too high of an organic load on your sewer. If sparging
takes too long why not consider Guiness' solution - a bladder operated press to
squeeze out the last drop from a very finely milled grist. The wort is then
probably sent to a roughing filter before the boil.
- ----------------------------------------------------
Keep on brewin'
Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3202 at compuserve.com
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From: DAVE BRADLEY IC742 6-7932 <BRADLEY_DAVID_A at LILLY.COM>
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 16:52:16 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [something] ?
OK, third time's a charm. I'm searching for info/resources to
get a product called LactoCaps (?), a culture of lactobacillus
freeze-dried and filled into gelatin capsules for ease of use.
This is supposedly a bacterium particularly well-suited for
making wits, and it is alleged to contain enough cell count
to obviate the need for step-up before use.
If you've used this product or seen it offered for sale anywhere,
could you please send me an Email? A search of HBD since '92 turned
up no leads. FYI this was mentioned in the 2nd most recent B.T. in
an article on lactic acid bacteria.
Thanks!
Dave in Indy
Home of the 3-D B.B.B.
Return to table of contents
From: "David R. Burley" <103164.3202 at CompuServe.COM>
Date: 04 Nov 96 15:10:44 EST
Subject: No sparge method, mousies
Brewsters:
In discussing "no sparge" brewing methods:
> Charles Burns says:
>
> "In any case, your question about "how much sugar is still left" after
> draining the grain bed is a good one."
and Ken Schwartz says:
>How much sugar is left behind? Who cares? You have what you want in the
>kettle, so try not to weep too bitterly as you drain the remaining runoff
>into the sink.
He recommends adding 25 to 30 % more malt to the mash to make up for the loss
in
what you throw away as a partial answer to Charlie's question, and suggests
this
no mash technique as an intermediate stage in going from extract to all-grain.
To try to get a more exact answer to Charlie's question we can do it this way.:
If we take 10# of malt and 2 1/2 gallons of mash liquor (1 qt/lb) and assume a
mash will produce 11 oz of sugar per pound of malt then we have 110 oz of sugar
total ( OG of 1.065 in 5 gals).
If the 10 # of malt holds one gallon of water even after it has been drained
(according to C. Papazian), then 1/2.5 = 0.4 or 40% of the sugar is still in
the
grains. You have a choice of brewing only three gallons of beer at a serious OG
or being satisfied with 5 gallons of a 3.2% type beer (OG 1.035).
This is a tremendous loss and I really can't suggest it be done as a
continuing practice. If you want to do a "no sparge" brew, I would suggest you
dilute the mash,during or after mashout, as much as possible by adding another
gallon or more of water.( Ken suggests this also) This would at least only give
you a loss of 1/3.5 = 0.285 = 28.5% You could then make a brew of 3.5 gallons
of serious beer or 5 gallons of a "driver's choice", session beer.
BTW if you sparge to 1.010 as the final sparge gravity, about 3.8 oz of sugar
remains which would raise the OG by only about 0.002 in a 5 gallon batch if you
could somehow get it out conveniently. It is probably less than that depending
on the amount of liquid you have below the false bottom.
I save time by heating my sparged wort once I have clarified about a gallon and
by periodically adding freshly sparged wort to keep it below the boil. My heat
rate is such that, as I finish the sparge ( total of about an hour or so), I'm
just at the boil with 6.5 gallons. I also use this sparge time to clean up and
prepare my CC cooler, etc.
Why go to the time and trouble of making a brew if you're going to throw a lot
of it away just to save a few minutes? Would you pour two gallons of your beer
down the sink?
- ------------------------------------------------------------
Rick Dante asks:
>Am I doomed to having
>determined hungry mousies gnawing through the plastic (probably at the
>joint between the lid and the container) to get to my precious grain?
In my own experience No. I have stored grain and malt in plastic garbage cans,
Rubbermaid Roughnecks, plastic shoe storage boxes, etc. since 1980. Living in
the woods, I have mice from time to time and only had one problem where one
tried to chew through the lid to a shoe box just as you described. I got him
before he finished, I guess.
Bacon tied onto a snap trap trigger and a little peanut butter smeared on the
bacon is a sure invitation to the Inferno.
- ---------------------------------------------------------
Keep on brewin'
Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3202 at compuserve.com
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From:
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From: "David R. Burley" <103164.3202 at CompuServe.COM>
Date: 04 Nov 96 15:10:36 EST
Subject: Chimay yeast
Brewsters:
P.S. Edwards and S. Murman responded to my questions on Chimay yeast and my
puzzlement on two apparent stages to the fermentation.and I have discovered a
passage that will be helpful in interpreting my results.
Paul Edwards says that discussions with a brewer in Belgium and reading Michael
Jackson confirm that Chimay uses the same yeast for fermentation and bottle
conditioning. S. Murman has tried several starters, but was cautioned that
fermenting it at too high a temperature would give too many phenols and be out
of style. He believes that 64F is optimum. Murman typically has 64 to 70F
fermentations lasting several weeks.
I have found a passage in Pierre Rajotte's book "Belgian Ale" (Brewers Pub.)
that says that some of the fermentations take place at as high a temperature as
85F for the first few days. Also, he says on P.39 in describing how
fermentation was carried out in small casks in the old days:
"The brewer in charge of the fermentation would add fresh wort at regular
intervals to replace the beer that had been lost with the outgoing yeast. He
knew that as long as thick yellowish yeast foam came through the bung,
fermentation was not finished. But as soon as the foam turned white, he knew it
was over. The white foam came slowly out through the bung hole, looking like a
cauliflower. This was called the cauliflower stage and it was then that the
brewer added isinglass to help in clarifying the beer and close the bung."
The thick yellowish foam would describe the color of the foam in the first
stage
of my fermentation and the white, slowly formed foam "the cauliflower stage"
would describe the thin layer of finely beaded white foam in the second stage I
observed with this yeast
..
I racked it to a secondary on Sunday and it was very tasty and only a little
sweet with a % reducible sugar content of 3/4 % and still actively fermenting
in
a rolling boiling kind of fermentation with no foam. I expect it will be done
soon. The first three days it was fermented at about 70F and then I raised it
to
78F at which time the production of esters became very evident. Next time I
will start hot. I guesstimate that the cauliflower stage occurred at a
fermentable sugar content higher than 2% which is high for kegging unless they
used the porous spile method of pressure control.
SInce the fermentation is still going on even after the white foam disappears,
do you suppose it is the alcohol content somehow acting as a foam breaker that
is the cause of this phenomenon? Really interesting.
From OG = 1.072 to finish in a week with an underpitched first-time starter.
I'm impressed.
- -----------------------------------------------------------
Keep on brewin'
Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3202 at compuserve.com
Return to table of contents
From: Bunning W Maj ACC/DOTE <bunningw at ns.langley.af.mil>
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 96 15:20:00 EST
Subject: HRB&TS Homebrew Competition
Greetings all.
The Hampton Roads Brewing and Tasting Society (HRB&TS) will be hosting
its 1st ever homebrew competition, "The Taming of the Brews", on February
22, 1997. It will be an all-British Isle style competition. I realize
this is a bit early for an announcement, but I'd like to give everyone
the opportunity to start brewing for the competition. The competition
homepage is located at http://www.infi.net/~ridgely/hrcomp.html if you'd
like more information. You can also e-mail me for more information.
I'll post an update here closer to the competition. Good luck and good
brewing.
Bunz Bunning
The following binary file has been uuencoded to ensure successful
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end
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From: "Ray Robert" <Ray_Robert at bah.com>
Date: 4 Nov 1996 15:34:55 U
Subject: Egg drop soup?
I had a question for the collective:
Brewed a brown ale over the weekend. Everything went pretty normal (for a
change).
8# 2 row pale
1# wheat
1# carapils
2oz black patent
2 oz chocolate
90 min boil
2oz cascade at 45
1oz fuggles at 15
Irish moss at 15.
Chilled to 80F and racked to carboy. After about 3 hours, I had a very large
batch of what appears to be brown egg drop soup. I pitched a large volume of
british wyeast. Ferment took off with no problems and egg drop stuff seems to
be settling out. My question is what the heck is this stuff? I know it has
been discussed before on the digest, but trying to do a search on "white,
slimy, egg-drop soup-like" stuff proved more than a little difficult, hence
why I am posting here. Any hints/suggestions. FYI, this is not IMBR post,
but I am curious as to what I have created.
Regards
Robert
ray_robert at bah.com
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From: "David R. Burley" <103164.3202 at CompuServe.COM>
Date: 04 Nov 96 16:20:48 EST
Subject: Re: CP fillers
Brewsters:
Timothy Sherburne says:
> Now I've got a question: I'd like to know more about counter-pressure
> bottle fillers. What's the cost, what equipment do I need, and what
> skills are required? I've been bottling the old-fashion way, but I will
> need to force carbonate a still cider in a couple of weeks. Kegging won't
> do, since I can't finish 5 gallons of hard cider at once. Besides,
> bottles are convenient for giving away at the hollidays.
I went through this dilemma in just the last couple of weeks. There is an
article in a recent Brewing Techniques ( I think) that compares all those on
the
market. Braukunst 218-384-9844 or 800-972-brau (no affil.,etc) wins hands down.
I also got an article on a build your own. When I had the same experience as
another HBDer with Braukunst's phone answerback -i.e. none, I thought. I
proceeded to build my own. It took quite a number of stops at various plumber's
suppliers, hobby shops and hardware stores to get all the connections. If you
can't find a #2 stopper with a 3/8 hole - don't start. Luckily a HB store in
the area had one.
In summary, it was a lot of work and the cost just about the same as if I had
purchased one already assembled. The Braukunst with specially machined parts
has
less metal, fewer nooks and crannies and will be easier to clean. Also all
hoses,"t" connectors etc. are provided. I would make a minor modification which
will allow me to fill tall (quarts) and short (12 oz) bottles. I made these
changes on the one I built. If you want to know, e-mail me. The only skill
required is three hands! I'm trying to think of a way to support it so it is
easier to use. Any ideas?
The day after I finished my do it yourself version, I got a Braukunst catalog!
Obviously they will send out a catalog, but won't call back for an order. At a
surprise birthday party (35 attendees and bye-bye Roasted Oatmeal Porter and
wine) for me, the following day, my buddies gave me a CP bottle filler from
Braukunst as a gift! When it rains... Now I know why my wife wanted to buy
the CP filler for me for Christmas. I said no because, like you, I wanted to
bottle some for gifts. Well, its nice to have a backup I guess or maybe a
whazzit? bar decoration.
- ----------------------------------------------
Keep on brewin'
Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3202 at compuserve.com
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Subject: [none]
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From: dharsh at alpha.che.uc.edu (David C. Harsh)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:38:58 -0500
Subject: BTU to Watts conversion
>Braam Greyling <acg at knersus.nanoteq.co.za> asks about BTU/Watt conversions
>
>Say if I have a 30000 BTU burner and I want to replace it with a
>electric element, how can I work out what the Watt rating of the
>element should be ?
That depends. BTU is energy and Watts is energy/time. Assuming that your
burner is rated on an hourly output (like my cajun cooker is), then since 1
W = 3.41212 BTU/hr, 30,000 BTU = 8792 W.
The leaves are falling - anybody ever used oak leaves as adjunct?
Dave
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From: "Gregory, Guy J." <GGRE461 at ecy.wa.gov>
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 96 15:07:00 PST
Subject: Fermenter-born yeast
RE: the general yeast-repitching thread:
As promised, I kegged a pale ale on saturday, leaving just a touch of beer
over the yeast (Wyeast London) in the bottom of my secondary. I filled the
secondary with CO2, and put an airlock on it. I brewed a Porter on Sunday
(OG 1064, ok, it's probably a stout) during a party, where I served the
force carbonated pale ale (review, great beer, but could stand a little
aging). I poured the chilled porter wort on the yeast in the fermenter about
6PM last night. As of 6AM this morning, fermentation was going great guns,
at a rate usually apparent with this yeast in this beer at around 24-36
hours after pitching. I believe I finally pitched a decent population
This looks like it works great, folks. Thanks for the tip.
GuyG4 at aol.com
Guy Gregory
Lightning Creek Home Brewery
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From: Chris Cooper <ccooper at a2607cc.msr.hp.com>
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 18:05:12 -0500
Subject: Congradulations to the HBD (almost)
Hi all!
I just finished reading HBD 2262 and I almost had to shout out loud
with joy, we almost got the S/N to zero, there were no [none]'s
and all but one posting was beer related, almost zero personal
bashings, little politics (and so close to US election day!) and all the
questions actually related to brewing, what a refreshing change!
I guess I can forgive the one non-brewing post as we need something
to remind us that not everything is skittles and beer (what the heck
are skittles anyway, I mean the saying predates the candy by that
name?).
In response to Eugene's post about a mock pilsner I would sugest that
he consider using the Wyeast 2112 (California common) yeast in the
project and may try using the carboy in a pan of water with a towel
around it (evaporative cooling) to hit a low room temperature
fermentation. Several posts in the past have indicated that there
are comercial micro's that use this yeast for all of their brews,
ales and lagers. Just an idea.
Chris Cooper , Commerce Michigan --> Pine Haven Brewery <--
Chris_Cooper at hp.com --> aka. Deb's Kitchen <--
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From: Ian Smith <rela!isrs at netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:06:13 -0700 (MST)
Subject: BTU to Watt
Braam Greyling asks how to convert BTU to Watt. The BTU is a unit of
energy and the Watt is a unit of power (ie energy/unit time) and so are
not directly equivalent. I assume you mean the conversion from 1 BTU/hr to
watts which is .293 (1 BTU/hr times 0.293 = Watts). A 30,000 BTU/hr
burner would be equal to 8.8 kW.
Hope this helps.
Cheers
Ian Smith
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From: Alex Santic <alex at salley.com>
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 18:34:18 -0500 (EST)
Subject: BT aeration article
Mark Bayer wrote:
> speaking of aeration, why didn't the recent bt article on aeration
> mention that overoxygenation can kill all your yeast? is this not
> true? dave miller has written about this danger. is he wrong
> (blasphemy!blasphemy!)?
Well it didn't outright say that your yeast would kick, although there was
a clear implication in the article that it's easy to over-aerate your wort
with pure oxygen. Apparently the "dangers" of under-aeration are so
obvious that he didn't bother to ferment the worts that didn't achieve DO
levels to his satisfaction.
It's a very interesting subject which I'm paying close attention to, but
frankly I also maintain a slightly cynical edge about the usefulness of
hi-tech aeration techniques. I've observed that many homebrewers,
including even the most technically- or scientifically-oriented, are far
from rigorous about ensuring that they've reached a valid conclusion
before evangelizing it (relax, don't worry, buy an O2 tank).
It did not help my confidence level that the author identified two common
strains of bacteria as yeast, and described oxygen as a catalyst in fires.
- --
Alex Santic - alex at salley.com
Silicon Alley Connections, LLC
527 Third Avenue #419 - NYC 10016 - 212-213-2666 - Fax 212-447-9107
http://www.salley.com
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From: David Lamotte/Newcastle/Computer Systems Australia/AU
Date: 4 Nov 96 23:33:10 EAT
Subject: Re: Carbonator-sanitizer accesry...
Following on from Dave Burley's recent post on using a Carbonator on a plastic
soda bottle to wash his beer gun, I would like to share my gadget with the
collective.
Here in Down Under (or "across" for our South American and African friends), we
seem to have two different types of fittings on our Corny kegs. Those on the
larger 23 litre tanks use a standard 1/2" pipe thread, and I have used these
with a stainless steel "T" fitting and ball valve to produce a handy cleaning
and CO2 purging device.
In two sides of the "T" I screwed one gas and one liquid keg fitting, and put
the ball valve on the third using a suitable nipple. A hose barb on the other
side of the valve allows various hoses to be easily slipped on as required.
This device allows me to push a hose connected to the hot water tap on the barb
and snap my beer gun on the liquid fitting to flush it out. Turning off the
ball valve and connecting the gas hose to the fitting lets you dry the beer
line and gun with CO2.
Removing the gun and opening the ball valve allows you connect your siphon
hoses to purge any fermeter, keg etc with CO2.
Just my $0.02 worth (or $A0.03), any questions or comments will be fine by
eMail.
Enjoy...
David Lamotte
Newcastle, N.S.W. Australia
David.Lamotte at compsys.com.au
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From: habanero at juno.com (Raymond P Kasprowicz)
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 1996 04:06:05 EST
Subject: Can I use any other GAS tank "bottle" for my C02 ???
I can get a small Oxygen tank rated at 1800 pounds for $20 and don't know
if I can use it for my homebrew.
This way I can scan the local paper looking for the smaller oxygen tanks
from hospitals or something. I know that some tanks have residual liquids
from the previous contents so on that note ....
Should I only get a "C02" bottle ?
Will other tanks be as good ?
Any suggestions on where I can get an acceptable tank, cheap ?
What is the minimum tank capacity for homebrew ( and average ) ?
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From: habanero at juno.com (Raymond P Kasprowicz)
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 1996 04:06:05 EST
Subject: What should I get PIN or BALL valve Soda Kegs ????
I want to keg my next batch but I am unsure what type of Keg I should
get. A local guy here has two "pretty" new Pin type Soda kegs and I can
get them for $15 each. I know there is a difference in the type of
fittings, but does it stop there ?
Is there any advantage of one over the other ?
Are there different prices for parts ? ( is one more readily available ?)
Which one is more popular and easily obtained ??
If where up to you, which one would you buy ??
Thanks a million guys, this Listerv is great...
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From: Dave Whitman <dwhitman at rohmhaas.com>
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 1996 07:48:22 -0800
Subject: low-calcium
In HBD2261, Al writes:
> 1) that in a low-calcium environment you would get "poor efficiency and a
> more fermentable wort than expected because the alpha amylase is less
> stable than in a higher calcium environment. Ergo, efficiency suffers
> if the alpha amylase disappears before the starch is completely converted
> to soluble carbohydrates."
>
> I agree with the first sentence in 1, but the second sentence and all
> of 2 are news to me.
Here's my 2 bits on the effect of calcium.
For 2 years, I brewed with r/o water with no added salts. Calcium level
was essentially nil. I observed good efficiencys using a 1 hour mashs
at 155-156F, with reasonable attenuations.
When I started adding in gypsum to get 50-100 ppm Ca, my conversion
efficiency was the same, but attenuation went way down. I had to drop
my mash temperature to 150-152F to get the attenuation I was used to.
I take this as support for more fermentability in low calcium worts, but
I don't see any effect on overall efficiency.
I think that once I started adding calcium, alpha amylase played a
bigger role in my conversion, so that I had to drop the mash temperature
to allow beta to compete. In the low calcium mashes, beta dominated
even at high temperatures due to poor stability of the alpha amylase.
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From: JUKNALIS <juknalis at ARSERRC.Gov>
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 1996 08:26:34 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Philly comp. results
Thanks to everyone who entered, judged, helped out & donated prizes!
Joe
for the compleat list of entries surf:
http://www.netaxs.com/`ktoast/hops.html
or email me & I'll forward you a copy
juknalis at arserrrc.gov
COMPETITION WINNERS for HOPS BOPS on 10/20/96
NAME BEER STYLE FROM PLACE
TABLE: 1 BEGIANS
- -------------------------------
HAUSEMAN, DAVID Tripel CHESTER SPRINGS, PA FIRST
FOLSOM JR., ALAN White (Wit) WARRINGTON, PA SECOND
HAUSEMAN2, DAVID Dubbel CHESTER SPRINGS, PA THIRD
TABLE: 2 FRUIT BEERS
- -------------------------------
STUTMAN, STEVE Classic-style NARBERTH, PA FIRST
TEMPLETON, KENT Fruit & Vegetable PHILLADELPHIA, PA SECOND
ROSOWSKI, RICH Classic-style HORSHAM, PA THIRD
TABLE: 3 STRONG,B WINE,BOCK
- -------------------------------
HANNING, CHUCK Doppelbock MALVERN, PA FIRST
FOLSOM JR., ALAN Doppelbock WARRINGTON, PA SECOND
FOLSOM JR., ALAN Strong Scotch Ale WARRINGTON, PA THIRD
TABLE: 4 AM. ALE, ENG BITTERS
- -------------------------------
HANNING2, CHUCK English Best/Special , FIRST
BUDDLE, DOUG American Pale Ale NORTH WALES, PA SECOND
LEFEBURE, PAUL American Wheat HAVERFORD, PA THIRD
BUDDLE, DOUG English Best/Special NORTH WALES, PA THIRD
TABLE: 5 STOUTS AND PORTERS
- -------------------------------
CLEMENTS, RANDY Porter NORWOOD, PA FIRST
ROBINSON, BETTY Porter PHILLADELPHIA, PA SECOND
FOLSOM JR., ALAN Porter WARRINGTON, PA THIRD
TABLE: 6 MILD,BROWN,PALE ALES
- -------------------------------
BLACK, KURT American Brown Ale FLOURTOWN, PA FIRST
KING, GREGORY India Pale Ale BARRINGTON, NJ SECOND
ROSOWSKI, RICH English Pale Ale HORSHAM, PA THIRD
TABLE: 7 HERB AND SPECIALTY
- -------------------------------
TARALLO, AMY Herb & Spice Beer AMBLER, PA FIRST
HUMMEL, GEORGE Classic-Style PHILADELPHIA, PA SECOND
FOLSOM JR., ALAN Herb & Spice Beer WARRINGTON, PA THIRD
TABLE: 8 LAGERS,KOLCH, CA COM
- -------------------------------
GROSSMAN, BOB Lager/Ale-Cream Ale HADDONFIELD, NJ FIRST-BOS!!!
HAUSEMAN, DAVID California Common CHESTER SPRINGS, PA SECOND
JOHNSTON, TED Oktoberfest/Marzen PHOENIXVILLE, PA THIRD
TABLE: 9 WHEAT BEERS
- -------------------------------
HANNING, CHUCK Weizen/Weissbier MALVERN, PA first place
ROSOWSKI, RICH Weizen/Weissbier HORSHAM, PA second
TABLE: 10 MEADS AND CIDERS
- -------------------------------
GROSSMAN, BOB Still Traditional HADDONFIELD, NJ FIRST
UKNALIS, JOE Still Traditional JENKINTOWN, PA SECOND
HUMMEL, GEORGE Sparking Traditional PHILADELPHIA, PA THIRD
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From: ajdel at mindspring.com (A. J. deLange)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 13:36:37 -0500
Subject: coolant flow/O2 toxicity
Derek L. wrote:
>A friend of mine who *does* know about thermal xfer reccomends throttling
>the flow speed to maintain max output temp. (==Most efficient/least water
use).
I doubt he said that. Maximum output temperature is approached as the
coolant flow approaches 0 whence the heat trasferred out of the wort is the
minimum i.e. the amount required to warm 1 chillerful of coolant. The only
way to be more efficient by this definition is not to use the chiller at
all (0 water use is less than one chillerful).
If most efficient is defined as getting the wort as cold as possible (i.e.
to the temperature of the coolant) then the fastest flow possible (short of
that which will cause heating due to friction/shear in the coolant channel)
is desireable though for practical purposes the flow should be limited to
that which gets the wort to within a degree or so of the coolant
temperature. Large increases in the flow rate are necessary to get these
last fractions of a degree and are wasteful of water. Note that heat
exchanger water used to mash another brew or to fill the washing machine or
to water the garden or to wash the dog or recirculated over ice or put to
any of the other inovative uses which have been posted here from time to
time is not wasted.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Mark Bayer asked why brewers aren't cautioned about over oxygenation
killing yeast. The reason is that you would have to work pretty hard to
establish and maintain a high enough oxygen level to do this. I really
don't know what level of exposure and time period would be required to harm
yeast but toxicity in humans begins only after hours of exposure at partial
pressures of 0.6 atmosphere. Yeast cells and human cells are amazingly
similar so let's use that number for lack of a better one recognizing that
we will doubtless offend the religious right and the physiologists. This
would be about 300% saturation in wort which can be established by running
oxygen through an airstone for an extended period but as soon as the
airstone is turned off two things begin to happen. First the yeast begin to
consume the oxygen and the partial pressure goes down and second, unless
the container is sealed, oxygen escapes to the air (trying to establish
equilibrium with it at 100%) and the partial pressure goes down. Yeast will
scavenge oxygen amazingly fast and of course the more of it they can get
the faster they will grow given that the other things they need are
available. In a properly pitched wort there should be enough yeast cells
present to consume oxygen at several hundred percent saturation within an
hour or so.
To kill your yeast seal the brew in a cornelius keg and apply oxygen
pressure through a regulator at a couple of atmospheres. I don't know how
much pressure woulf be required but it would make an interesting
experiment. Note that even if the yeast survived the beer would taste
horrible.
A. J. deLange
- - Numquam in dubio, saepe in errore.
Please Note New e-mail Address
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From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com (George De Piro)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 08:12:18 -0800
Subject: Wyeast 1007 question
Hi all!
I have a question about Wyeast 1007 (German ale). I am using this
yeast for the first time (beer is fermenting even as this is being
written), and have noticed that it is cranking out ENORMOUS quantities
of H2S (hydrogen sulfide, smells like rotten eggs).
I have never used an ale yeast that has done this before, but know
that many German lager yeasts do.
What's the deal? Is this normal for 1007 or did Wyeast mislabel the
package?
I know Jim would chastise me for using it at all, and is now shaking
his head and chuckling (especially if it is a mislabeled yeast), but I
never had a problem (that I knew of) before this!
Have fun!
George De Piro (Nyack, NY)
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From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com (George De Piro)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 08:32:47 -0800
Subject: RE: The necessity of a large burner
Howdy!
Somebody in #2262 mentions that it took a long time to get 6 gallons
of wort to a boil on their stove top. They therefore feel it is
necessary to purchase a propane burner to do full wort boils.
Actually, it isn't. Just buy a pot that fits over two burners on your
stove. Most department stores sell large enamelware pots that fit
this bill for ~$40.
It is dangerous to run a propane burner indoors (unless you have a
super-duper exhaust system), and some people don't like to brew
outdoors in January.
I boil 12-14 gallons on my stove top, and it only takes ~1 hour (maybe
1.25 hours) to get it to a boil because my kettle fits over two
burners.
Just trying to minimize equipment costs and safety hazards. Propane
burners are nice if you can brew in an area with adequate ventilation.
Have fun!
George De Piro (Nyack, NY)
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From: "Darrin Bruce" <dbruce at chi.osu.edu>
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 96 9:07:53 -30000
Subject: Barleywine
Mark & Ava ask about priming their 1.058 FG barleywine and whether they
should use just priming sugar or repitch another yeast..
I just bottled my first barleywine so I am not an authority but I will share
my experience. My barleywine also started at 1.100. I used a 20oz Wyeast
Scotch Ale starter, pitching 10 oz initially and stepping-up the other 10oz
to handle higher gravities. The last stepup I did was with a 1.08 OG
starter. After fermentation slowed to a crawl, I took a reading and it had
dropped to 1.035. I pitched the stepped-up starter slurry and fermentation
went from a crawl to a fast crawl. This slow fermentation continued for 3
additional weeks. Then, I took a reading and it had dropped to 1.023. I
bottled it using malt extract and it is now aging.
Now to your question! With a 1.058 reading, I would GUESS there still is a
nice supply of fermentable sugars remaining which leads me to believe that
the yeast could not tolerate the higher alcohol levels and thusly have passed
on. Adding priming sugar at this point probably will not generate much
carbonation. I would suggest that if you can wait an additional 2 to 3 weeks
for the use of your carboy, step-up a yeast to handle higher gravities and
repitch. Then wait to see what happens. I believe the worst that can happen
is an infection so pay attention to your sanitizing. Good Luck and let us
know what happens!
Other more experience barleywine brewers, please chime in!
Darrin Bruce (dbruce at chi.osu.edu)
Columbus, Ohio
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