---

   FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
        Mike Donald, Digest Janitor-in-training
        Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!

Contents:
  cane / corn suger equiv ((Greg Moore - SMCC BOS Hardware Engineering))
  Re: Corn as an adjunct (Art Steinmetz)
  RE: no sparge technique (Art Steinmetz)
  propane cooker (SCHNUPP_JOHN/FOX1_00 at amat.com)
  Re: coolant flow/O2 toxicity (hollen at vigra.com)
  Squeezin dem grains (Charles Capwell)
  Fake Lagers (KennyEddy at aol.com)
  BTU to Watts conversion (Kelly Jones)
  road trip (<egross at emory.edu>)
  second try again ((BAYEROSPACE))
  any gas tank? / pin vs ball  ((Mark & Ava Lindberg))
  over oxygenation ((BAYEROSPACE))
  Oxygenation of Wort ("Aaron Herrick")
  Re: Refridgerator Penetration: Door or Wall? (Rob Kienle)
  Weyerbacher ? ("Curt Speaker")
  H2S from Wyeast 1007 (Larry Johnson)
  Belgain Brewing (Jim Liddil)
  What a wonderful hobby!!! ("John E. Carsten, Jr.")
  Re: Wort Chiller Water Speed (Wade Hutchison)
  Lager Yeast and Temperature (Anton Schoenbacher)
  too much yeast (Anton Schoenbacher)
  [none] ()
  [none] ()
  No sparge brewing -- Again! ("Louis K. Bonham")
  [none] ()
  [none] ()
  [none] ()
  [none] ()
  [none] ()
  undigest (Anton Schoenbacher)
  Re: can I use any other GAS tank "bottle" for my CO2??? (Brian Bliss)
  Re: road trip (RUSt1d?)
  [none] ()
  [none] ()
  Gas bottles (Bill Watt)
  Re: CF CHiller cleaning/sanitizing ((Geoff Scott))
  SNPA not bottling with "chico" rumors? (Rick Dante)

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: gmoore at wacko.East.Sun.COM (Greg Moore - SMCC BOS Hardware Engineering)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 09:41:26 -0500
Subject: cane / corn suger equiv

 
 
 
Got another newbie question: 
 
My first batch brewed was a newcastle clone.  Recipe called for 1 lb of 
brown sugar.  I was wondering if I brew another batch of this, can I use 
dark corn syrup instead?  The first batch has a taste that I attribute to 
the use of cane sugar. 
 
Is there a conversion factor that anyone knows of? 
 
Should I use a combination of corn sugar/corn syrup? 
 
Is the molasses in brown sugar fermentable? 
 
Should I use corn sugar and molasses? 
 
 
Any empirical or theoretical thoughts appreciated. 
 
- -G 
 

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From: Art Steinmetz <asteinm at pipeline.com>
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 1996 10:50:32 -0500
Subject: Re: Corn as an adjunct

At 09:30 AM 11/4/96 -0800, you wrote: 
>I still have a lot of old ears 
>of corn left on the stalks. It's too old 
>to eat so I was thinking about fermenting it in my next batch of beer. 
 
A useful maxim I heard is "Don't cook with wine you wouldn't drink." 
- -- Art 

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From: Art Steinmetz <asteinm at pipeline.com>
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 1996 10:50:34 -0500
Subject: RE: no sparge technique

>> As I recall Dr. Fix's article (supported by his own experience, no doubt) 
was that you leave about 30% of the extract.  Or stated another way, you 
need 30% more grain to get the same OG. << 
 
Sorry to be anal but you'll need 43% more grain to get the same OG if you 
expect 30% less extract. 
 
1/(1-0.30) = 1.43. 
- -- Art 

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From: SCHNUPP_JOHN/FOX1_00 at amat.com
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 96 07:42:00 -0800
Subject: propane cooker

 
 
Greetings, 
 
   Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't a gas stove consume O2 in the same 
way as a propane cooker?  Maybe there is something different about the 
combustion between the two that I wasn't taught in chemistry class.  Ever 
since working my way thru college working in a restarant, I have been hooked 
on cooking with gas.  Better temperature control, instant heat and quicker 
cool down time after turned off (unless you are heating a big hunk of metal 
such as a grill) to name three and I'll bet there are those of you out there 
who could name more.  Good ventalation is necessary whenever using a flame 
for cooking, even if it is the kitchen stove.  Another reason is so that the 
moisture that is "pumped" in to the air as steam and water vapor does not 
cause damage.  I brew in my basement and I simply didn't like the idea of 
having the potential of my floor joists becoming water damaged (it also helps 
to get rid of some of the heat too). 
   I say go with a cajun cooker.  They're great for lobster/crab/clam/etc... 
as well.  Just make sure that it is setting serurely on the floor and as 
always when working with flames, keep a fire extinguisher nearby (the home 
you could save will be your own).  Also store the propane tank in a safe place 
outside of living quarters.  A standard grill tank (20 lb) lasts me for at 
least 4-5 brew (burner on for almost 2 hrs) sessions and costs about $8 to 
get refilled.  Then again that is my opinion and I can be very opinionated. 
It really doesn't matter what you use as your heat source as long as you brew 
the best beer you can. 
 
John Schnupp, N3CNL 
schnupp_john at amat.com 
 

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From: hollen at vigra.com
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 96 07:58:46 PST
Subject: Re: coolant flow/O2 toxicity

>> A J deLange writes: 
 
AJd> Mark Bayer asked why brewers aren't cautioned about over 
AJd> oxygenation killing yeast. The reason is that you would have to 
AJd> work pretty hard to establish and maintain a high enough oxygen 
AJd> level to do this. 
 
AJd> To kill your yeast seal the brew in a cornelius keg and apply 
AJd> oxygen pressure through a regulator at a couple of atmospheres. I 
AJd> don't know how much pressure woulf be required but it would make 
AJd> an interesting experiment. Note that even if the yeast survived 
AJd> the beer would taste horrible. 
 
Data point, I oxygenate under pressure in a corny using a carbonator 
stone and slowly bring the O2 pressure up from 2 psi to 20 psi over 
about 30 minutes and then let it stay at 20 psi with no more oxygen 
injection for 2 hours, when I let off the pressure and put on the 
blowoff hose.  The lag time past this point is usually about 2 hours 
or less, normal for brewer's yeast.  I have no problems with high 
terminal gravity, even with OG's of 1095.  This is indicative to me of 
healthy yeast growth. 
 
In a private conversation with George Fix, he said that he had taken 
measurements with a DO meter for inclusion in his next book and had 
found that while it is possible to over oxygenate when under pressure, 
within a few minutes of going back to STP, the DO levels will fall to 
equilibrium and at STP equilibrium, it is *impossible* to have DO 
levels too high for yeast.  So, unless you pressurize with O2, you 
cannot overoxygenate. 
 
dion 
 
- -- 
Dion Hollenbeck (619)597-7080x164                 Email: hollen at vigra.com 
                                             http://www.vigra.com/~hollen 
Sr. Software Engineer - Vigra Div. of Visicom Labs  San Diego, California 

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From: Charles Capwell <chas at A119005.sat1.as.crl.com>
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 10:09:28 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Squeezin dem grains

Whilst perusing the thread on no sparge mashing, someone mentioned using 
Guiness' bladder method to squeeze all that you can out of the grains, and 
this got me thinking(dangerous I know :). 
 
What if someone where to take their non-sparged grains, transfer them to a 
large grain bag, then put them in a fruit press and squeeze as much as 
possible out of the grains? 
 
I'm thinking that this might result in some unwanteds being squeezed out of 
the grains(tannins, etc). Anyone have any ideas? As I don't have a fruit 
press, I can't experiment with this. Though I have thought about trying to 
build one out of a plastic bucket. . . 
 
I suppose one could also just twist the grain bag to literally wringe out 
the grains the as well. 
 
- -Chas (chas at crl.com) 
Crazy Cockatiel Brewery 
 
When I heated my home with oil, I used an average of 800 gallons a 
year.  I have found that I can keep comfortably warm for an entire 
winter with slightly over half that quantity of beer. 
                -- Dave Barry, "Postpetroleum Guzzler" 

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From: KennyEddy at aol.com
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 11:31:14 -0500
Subject: Fake Lagers

"Careful With That Axe" Eugene asks about making fake lagers (beers made with 
lager grain bills & techniques but fermented at "easier" ale temperatures). 
 
Both California Common ("Steam") and Kolsch lager yeasts perform well in the 
55F - 60F range, which should be easily achievable this time of year.  These 
are true lager yeasts.  In addition, American Ale ("Chico") and European Ale 
yeasts are both clean fermenters, especially below 65F.  The real secret to 
fake lagers (based on my limited experience with it) is the cold storage part 
("lager" is a German verb meaning "to store").  It's easy(er) with a keg 
setup to refrigerate it & forget it for a few weeks, but if you plan to 
bottle, you should allow plenty of time in the secondary at as cold a 
temperature as possible before bottling.  The idea in "real" lager production 
(lager pro's comments welcome) is that tannins extracted from the decotion 
process (which you probably didn't use) and other stuff floating around in 
the beer have time to settle out, smoothing the flavor; colder storage 
accelerates this process.  Question:  If the really cold storage temperatures 
can't be achieved, is longer time an equivalent substitute? 
 
Depending on the strain of yeast used, a long cold storage period might cause 
most of the yeast to fall out, so adding a "bottling yeast" at priming might 
be necessary for proper carbonation. 
 
***** 
 
Ken Schwartz 
El Paso, TX 
KennyEddy at aol.com 
http://members.aol.com/kennyeddy 
 

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From: Kelly Jones <kejones at ptdcs2.intel.com>
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 1996 08:43:49 -0800
Subject: BTU to Watts conversion

Dave Harsh wrote: 
>1W = 3.41212 BTU/hr, 30,000 BTU = 8792 W. 
 
I'll add one complication:  If you stick an 8792W heating element into a 
container of water, you'll get almost 100% efficiency, that is, almost all of 
the heat will be transferred to the water.  However, if you stick a 30,000 
BTU gas burner under your kettle, you'll get much lower efficiency: A great 
deal of heat will go up and around the kettle, and be lost into the room. 
The exact efficiency is, of course, highly dependent upon the specifics, but 
50-60 % might not be a bad guess.  So in real life, a 30,000 BTU burner might 
provide closer to 5000W. 
 
Kelly 
Hillsboro, OR 

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From: <egross at emory.edu>
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 12:04:30 -0500 (EST)
Subject: road trip

I will be driving to DC, Wilmington,DE, Philadelphia,E. Rutherford, NJ, 
and NYC from Atlanta in the next few weeks.I will be returning to Atlanta, 
probably taking 2 days to do so, but I haven't worked that part of the 
trip out yet. Anyway, will the collective email me suggestions on beers 
sites along the way (brewpubs,beer bars,must sees, tours, etc), all 
recommendations will be appreciated. Also, if there are suggestions on 
where to buy the higher alcohol Belgian beers that I love or rare 
microbrews, send them to me.TIA, lee 
 

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From: M257876 at sl1001.mdc.com (BAYEROSPACE)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 11:07 -0600
Subject: second try again

 
collective homebrew conscience: 
 
i brewed 2 batches of almost identical bitter the past two weekends.  however, 
the wort/beer appears very different in the fermenters, and i would like to 
try and figure out why. 
 
basically, the first batch generated minimal trub after being chilled, and 
is still hazy (tastes good).  the second batch produced a lot of trub and 
is quite a bit clearer.  here are the only differences in the techniques/ 
recipes: 
 
the first batch: 
 
1. didn't utilize a protein rest 
2. didn't have irish moss added 
3. had an 80 minute sparge (very slow, on purpose) 
4. used ekg hop pellets 
 
the second batch: 
 
1. utilized a 20 minute protein rest at 122 F 
2. used irish moss 30 minutes BEOB 
3. had a 55 minute sparge ( a little faster flow) 
4. used all whole hops (my preference, actually) 
 
 
the malts used in both all grain recipes were dwc pale ale, aromatic, biscuit, 
wheat, and caravienne. 
 
wait, there was one more difference: batch one used no additional salts in the 
mash, and batch two used 1 teaspoon of gypsum. 
 
the pH was roughly the same, according to my pH papers.  around 5.4 or 5.5 
at room temperature. 
 
that's mash pH, above. 
 
okay, homebrew detectives, what's the culprit here?  why is batch one so much 
more hazy than batch two, and why didn't it produce as much trub? 
 
i eagerly await the collective proclamation. 
 
brew hard, 
 
mark bayer 
 

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From: ckbrew at ime.net (Mark & Ava Lindberg)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 12:39:01 -0500 (EST)
Subject: any gas tank? / pin vs ball 

Greetings brewers: 
 
In HBD 2263 Raymond asks about using any gas tank for CO2.  The awnser is 
NO!  I once had the opportunity to see the results of a CO2 tank splitting 
open.  The tank ate a tap refrigerator and tore a hole through the wall of 
the house!  Really- there wasn't much left of the frig.  Luckily no one was 
at home at the time this happened.  This was a freak accident.  The 
certification on the tank was only 2 years old.  CO2 should be used only in 
a tank & regulator rated for CO2.  The tank needs to be hydro tested every 5 
years.  When this test is done, the expiration date of the test is stamped 
in the metal of the tank.  Any reputable gas supplier will not fill a tank 
with an expired date.  In the recent thread of brewing safty, one should 
learn of the potential for harm in using compressed gasses.  Use only a tank 
rated for the gas you use.  This exampe serves to illistrate the point. Ps. 
Some people used compressed O2 in brewing.  In these systems it is importnat 
to never use oil in the regulator system.  This will create an explosive 
mixture.  Nuf said.  Minimun size you'll probably find is 5lb.  I use a 20 
lb.  It costs just about the same to fill, and lasts 4 times as long.  Best 
prices I've found is Fox Equiptment 1800-821-2254 (standard disclaimers). 
 
Ray also asks about the use of pin vs ball fittings on kegs.  I don't see a 
big difference, just need to buy proper fittings.  I have noticed that most 
pin fitted kegs do not have a relief valve in the lid.  This can be gotten 
around by depressing the gas poppet.  I chose the ball system because that 
is what was easier to get in my area.  This is probably your biggest 
determining factor on wich system to use. 
 
Mark 
 
A friend with mead is a friend in deed... 
 

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From: M257876 at sl1001.mdc.com (BAYEROSPACE)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 12:06 -0600
Subject: over oxygenation

collective homebrew conscience: 
 
a.j. delange wrote (with regard to overoxygenation/yeast toxicity): 
 
> you would have to work pretty hard to 
>establish and maintain a high enough oxygen level to do this. 
 
<snip>oxygen through an airstone for an extended period but as soon as the 
>airstone is turned off two things begin to happen. First the yeast begin to 
>consume the oxygen and the partial pressure goes down and second, unless 
>the container is sealed, oxygen escapes to the air (trying to establish 
>equilibrium with it at 100%) and the partial pressure goes down. 
 
my further questions would be: 
 
1.  how long does it take for the super saturated wort to reach an equilibrium 
    state with regard to its dissolved oxygen level? 
 
2. what would this final equilibrium dissolved oxygen level be at some nominal 
    temperature, say 65 deg. F, and 1 atm? 
 
3.  at what level of dissolved oxygen does yeast cease normal activity and 
    begin the "dying" process?    or the "not optimal for a good beer 
    fermentation" state? 
 
4.  is there an oxygen level at which yeast becomes unable or unwilling to 
    consume the oxygen?  even if it's not a toxic level, it would surely 
    affect the fermentation. 
 
 
surely there has been research done on this topic (?).  is there a source for 
brewing related research information that's easily accessible?  or is 
anheuser busch hoarding it all? 
 
 
>To kill your yeast seal the brew in a cornelius keg and apply oxygen 
>pressure through a regulator at a couple of atmospheres. 
 
 
if this is truly the only way to kill yeast with oxygen, i'd say dave miller 
needs to update his book.  none of us should really worry about getting too 
much dissolved oxygen in our worts.  if this is true, maybe i will get an 
oxygen source and start using it. 
 
 
brew hard, 
 
mark bayer 

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From: "Aaron Herrick" <chemstat at phoenix.net>
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 12:01:02 -0600
Subject: Oxygenation of Wort

Question for the collective: 
 
I have been reading with interest the oxygenation thread here.  I was 
trying to think of the oddest way of oxygenating I could, and  one of the 
methods was chemical.  According to some rough calculations, adding a 
quarter cup of 3% Hydrogen Peroxide to your Wort (BEFORE the pitch!) would 
theoretically saturate 5 gallons at around 40 mg/l.  The method is sterile 
(sanitile?), cheap, quick, easy, requires no additional equipment.   Has 
anyone tried this yet?  I am preparing to do a split batch trial and wanted 
to know what the chemists, biologists, and beer drinkers thought before I 
put grain to water. 
 
The only worry I have is the rate of decomposition of Hydrogen Peroxide, 
because I shudder to think what it would do to yeast.  Anyone have a rate 
law for this reaction handy? 
 
Aaron Herrick 
100 Aker Wood Brewery 
"We brew for pooh!" 
 

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From: Rob Kienle <rkienle at interaccess.com>
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 1996 12:24:26 -0500
Subject: Re: Refridgerator Penetration: Door or Wall?

In HBD 2256, Charles Burns writes: 
 
 >> is there a problem with going in through the side of the refer? Are 
there refrigeration lines hidden in there? And what kind of drill bit 
should I get? 
 
I recently made an installation to an older, used refrigerator though 
using the more traditional method of putting a single CO2 line through 
the side wall and a single tap on the door. I located the tap toward the 
left side in order to minimize the amount of tubing "stretch" when the 
door is opened, though in practice I have found it to make little or no 
difference. For a single tap, there's not as much line in there as you 
think there is. For your situation (multiple taps), location may be more 
important and your side installation may help. On the other hand, 
remember that you've got to pull out those taps every once in a while 
(every month, I'd say) to disassemble and clean them, so although you 
may end up with fewer lines hanging across the door opening, you are 
still going to have to contort yourself a little bit to pull everything 
apart at cleaning time. (Not to mention the fact that manipulating that 
irritatingly thin beer line over your tappers is difficult at any 
angle.) 
 
In terms of locating refrigeration lines, yes, they certainly exist 
somewhere. I suggest looking at the back of your unit to see if they run 
up the rear; on many machines, particularly older ones, that's where 
they are. There are no lines in the door of any machine. There may be 
lines in the sidewalls of some. Unfortunately you won't really know 
until you drill. However, if you can locate them in the rear of the 
unit, you can be pretty confident that there are none of the side. In 
addition, if you really want to be sure, you can call the manufacturer 
of the refrigerator and give them the model number. 
 
As for hole size, I think I drilled about a quarter inch hole for the 
CO2 line and worked it around a bit to enlarge the thing. Then I put the 
line through the hole and sealed around the edges with silicone cement 
to insulate. 
 
Hope you don't mind my replying to your personal email instead of the 
digest itself, but I was behind on my reading and this reply is 
therefore a little tardy. 
 
Good luck and good brewing! 
- -Rob Kienle 
- -Chicago, IL 
- -rkienle at interaccess.com 

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From: "Curt Speaker" <speaker at safety-1.univsfty.psu.edu>
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 13:29:22 EST
Subject: Weyerbacher ?

Have any of you Philly folks tried the beers made by Weyerbacher 
Brewing Company in Easton, PA?  The label claims "Micro-Brewed in 
 the Lehigh Valley".  I have tried both the pale ale and the winter 
ale and found them both...well...er...horrible.  The pale ale had a 
lingering carmel taste, was overcarbonated & didn't have much hop 
character.  The winter ale was worse - it tasted scorched, reaked of 
diacetyl and again had that carmel tang to it.  They taste very much 
like poorly made extract beers - no real grain character (my first 
batch of homebrew was MUCH better than this...) 
Does anyone out there in HBDland know anything about this "brewery"? 
Has anyone else tasted these beers?   Am I off base here? 
I am always happy to see new breweries open in Pennsylvania, but 
their products are second-rate (or worse), it concerns me.   With all 
of the good micros in the Philly area (Dock St., Victory, 
Independence, Valley Forge, Lancaster), I don't think these guys will 
last long unless they do something to address their quality issues 
immediately. 
 
Vote!  And if you don't vote, don't bitch!!! 
Curt 

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From: Larry Johnson <Maltster at ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 10:32:06 -0800
Subject: H2S from Wyeast 1007

George de Piro is getting lots of stinky H2S from a batch in which he's 
using Wyeast German Ale #1007. 
 
George, last year I brewed four batches almost simultaneously with this 
yeast, and never detected any odor of H2S.  Just for the sake of comparison 
between yours and mine: mine were extract brews, I pitched really huge 
starters (2 quarts in the first two batches, second two batches were brewed 
on the primary dregs of the first two), and they fermented kind of warm 
(~70F) for this yeast. 
 
Hope this is of some help. 
 
Larry Johnson / Athens, GA / maltster at ix.netcom.com 
http://www.ix.netcom.com/~maltster -  stop by for a visit! 
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 
Way down south they had a jubilee, 
Them Georgia folks, they had a jamboree. 
They were drinking homebrew from a wooden cup, 
The folks that were dancin' there got all shook up. 
 
                    Chuck Berry - "Rock 'n Roll Music" 
 
Larry Johnson  /  Athens, GA  /  Maltster at ix.netcom.com 
Come and see the Web page at http://www.netcom.com/~maltster 
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 
 

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From: Jim Liddil <JLIDDIL at AZCC.Arizona.EDU>
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 11:47:42 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Belgain Brewing

> From: "David R. Burley" <103164.3202 at CompuServe.COM> 
> Date: 04 Nov 96 15:10:36 EST 
> Subject: Chimay yeast 
 
> Paul Edwards says that discussions with a brewer in Belgium and reading 
Michael
> Jackson confirm that Chimay uses the same yeast for fermentation and bottle 
> conditioning.   S. Murman has tried several starters, but was cautioned that 
> fermenting it at too high a temperature would give too many phenols and be 
out
> of style. He believes that 64F is optimum. Murman typically has 64 to 70F 
> fermentations lasting several weeks. 
 
High temp ferments give excessive higher alcohols and banana beer also. Murman 
is obviously underpitching if his beer takes weeks to ferment.  There is no 
reason for 1070 beers not to ferment out in a week if pitched with adequate 
amounts of yeast even at 60 F. 
 
> 
> I have found a passage in Pierre Rajotte's book "Belgian Ale" (Brewers Pub.) 
> that says that some of the fermentations take place at as high a temperature 
as
> 85F for the first few days.  Also, he says on P.39 in describing how 
> fermentation was carried out in small casks in the old days: 
 
Many people question the validity of what Rajotte has written partiucalry those
who have been to belgium. But if you want to use high temps wI would recommend 
a yeast like the YCKC strain B1 (no affiliation, but I live in Arizona and know
about high temp ferments :-)  ) 
 
> 78F at which time the production of esters became very evident.  Next time I 
> will start hot.  I guesstimate that the cauliflower stage occurred at a 
> fermentable sugar content higher than 2% which is high for kegging unless 
they
> used the porous spile method of pressure control. 
 
I caution you against such a high temp ferment, but I'll let you decide. I 
prefer not to make headache, banana beer. 
 
Jim 
The AOB is still noxious. 
 

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From: "John E. Carsten, Jr." <jcarsten at ionet.net>
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 12:53:10 -0600 (CST)
Subject: What a wonderful hobby!!!

Just a thought ... reason number 1,038,258 on why homebrewing is such a 
wonderful hobby. I 
was admitted to the hospital rather abruptly last Wednesday. 
 
At the time, I had a mead chugging along (about 2 weeks in the carboy) and a 
pilsner in a temp controlled fridge (three weeks in the primary). I was in 
the hospital for three days, with a wife at home who knows nothing about 
brewing and wasn't in the mood to take care of my beer anyway. 
 
 I came home Friday night, immeditately went to bed, and did not check the 
beer OR the mead until Saturday afternoon. By The weekend, the two were at 
the same temperature they had been when I left, and still fermenting away 
quietly (although they were both much clearer, and with a quick SG check, 
much stronger). 
 
Is this a great hobby or what? 
 
 
John "One foot in the grave and still Brewin'" Carsten 
 
Homebrewing, the only hobby that you can still participate in after you're 
long gone. 
 
 

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From: Wade Hutchison <whutchis at bucknell.edu>
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 1996 14:06:34 -0500
Subject: Re: Wort Chiller Water Speed

 
> 
>From: "Brian Krause" <bkrause at gwis.com> 
>Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 16:29:59 -0500 
>Subject: Wort Chiller Water Speed 
> 
>Fellow Homebrewers, 
> 
>I have a homemade wort chiller (3/8 " copper tube 30 feet long, shaped 
>around a paint can) and have always wondered how fast to run the water thru 
>it for cooling.  Being a spark chaser and not an expert on thermal 
>transfer, any suggestions on how fast to run the water thru the coil for 
>the most efficient cooling?? 
> 
>- ----  Brian G. Krause 
>- --------  BKRAUSE at GWIS.COM 
>- ------------  "Relax, Don't Worry... Drink your OWN  Homebrew!!" 
> 
>------------------------------ 
> 
Two rules of thumb: Keep the flow turbulent for maximum heat transfer, 
and keep the approach temperature at 10 deg. C.  For 3/8" copper tubing, that 
would mean keeping the flow above 1. gallon/minute.  If you can measure the 
outlet temperature of the coil, be sure that the water out is at least 
10 degrees cooler than the current wort temperature.  Increased flow will 
decrease the outlet temperature. 
 
Hope this helps. 
 -----wade 
 whutchis at bucknell.edu 
 

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From: Anton Schoenbacher <aschoenb at eecs.wsu.edu>
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 96 11:14:26 PST
Subject: Lager Yeast and Temperature

I was wondering what effect warmer tempertures (60-65 deg) have 
on fermenting with lager yeast.  Will I get some funky esters 
formed by doing this ?  I have used lager yeast before but that 
was when I was a misinformed extract brewer.  I don't remember 
if I got off flavors or not, actually I think all my extract 
brews had off flavors, so I'm not sure if it was the yeast or not. 
 
I have read in various places that mash sparge water should have 
a starting ph of 5.6, should the water I use to mash also have 
a low ph ?  Does it matter ? 
 
what effect will useing sparge water with a ph of 7 do to my brew ? 
 
thankyou 
- -- 
*****Anton Schoenbacher*****aschoenb at eecs.wsu.edu***** 

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From: Anton Schoenbacher <aschoenb at eecs.wsu.edu>
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 96 11:39:39 PST
Subject: too much yeast

I got another one.  On friday I brewed another basic ale, I'm 
trying to get my all-grain process down.  I went to my local 
brewpub and got some yeast from his fermenter.  The yeast they 
use is a Nottingham Ale yeast.  He gave me about a 20 oz jar 
filled with nice creamy yeast sediment from his fermenter. 
He told me to use about 1/4 of it, which I did.  About an 
hour or so after pitching yeast I had 3 inches of foam on my 
wort and it was churning like a mother.  Next day fermentation 
activity was at a minimum.  Sunday I racked to secondary and 
gravity was 1.015 (O.G. was 1.060) but the stuff smelled like 
grapefruit.  I read in 'Brew Chem 101' that this could be from 
pitching too much yeast.  Should I have made a starter from 
the yeast I got instead of dumping in about 1/2 cup of pure 
yeast ? 
- -- 
*****Anton Schoenbacher*****aschoenb at eecs.wsu.edu***** 

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From: "Louis K. Bonham" <lkbonham at i-link.net>
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 1996 14:04:54 -0600
Subject: No sparge brewing -- Again!

David R. Burley, in a critique of "no sparge" brewing, asks: 
 
> Why go to the time and trouble of making a brew if you're going to throw a 
lot of it away just to save a few minutes? Would you pour two
gallons of your beer down the sink? 
 
The answer is simple: to make better beer!  Yes, no sparge brewing is 
nominally more expensive, but yields a maltier tasting product in less 
time.  (See George Fix's original article on the subject in the HBD 
archives.)  Indeed, most brewing experts (including both Dr. Fix and Dr. 
Paul Farnsworth) will tell you that no sparge (a/k/a "first runnings" 
brewing") gives a higher quality beer.  Frankly, the main reason why I 
use the "no sparge" method is not to save time but to increase the 
quality of what I brew! 
 
And, as I've said before, if it bothers you to "waste" the sugars left 
in the spent grains, just steep them in hot water while your main mash 
is boiling.  When you're through with the boil and you've emptied the 
kettle, just drain off and boil up these "second runnings" with a 
handful of hops and you've got a supply of either high grade yeast 
starter or low grade beer wort.  Beer made from these "second runnings" 
is the "small beer" which Shakespeare piloried (Henry VI, Part II, Act 
IV, Scene ii). 

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From: Anton Schoenbacher <aschoenb at eecs.wsu.edu>
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 96 14:15:32 PST
Subject: undigest

How do I get on the undigest version ? 
- -- 
*****Anton Schoenbacher*****aschoenb at eecs.wsu.edu***** 

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From: Brian Bliss <brianb at microware.com>
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 96 17:16:00 CST
Subject: Re: can I use any other GAS tank "bottle" for my CO2???

 
> I can get a small Oxygen tank rated at 1800 pounds for $20 and don't know 
> if I can use it for my homebrew. 
 
I would work, but the fittings will not be the same and no place will 
fill it for you.  O2 tanks use different threads than other gases to 
prevent just what your doing.  Using an O2 tank for other gases isn't 
harmful in itself (provided it has been completely emptied before 
refilling), but you don't want to use anything but an O2 tank which 
has ONLY been filled with O2 for O2.  O2 can react with residual liquids 
(mainly oils in the fittings and regulators), but great care has been 
taken to keep O2 tanks and other tanks separate, and if you filled 
the O2 tank with CO2, you would have a potentially dangerous situation 
when someone scarfed up the cheap bottle and took it to be refilled 
it with O2. 
 
bb 
 
- ------------------------------ 

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From: RUSt1d? <rust1d at li.com>
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 18:58:56 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: road trip

At 12:04 PM 11/5/96 -0500, you wrote: 
>I will be driving to DC, Wilmington,DE, Philadelphia,E. Rutherford, NJ, 
>and NYC from Atlanta in the next few weeks.I will be returning to Atlanta, 
>probably taking 2 days to do so, but I haven't worked that part of the 
>trip out yet. Anyway, will the collective email me suggestions on beers 
>sites along the way (brewpubs,beer bars,must sees, tours, etc), all 
>recommendations will be appreciated. Also, if there are suggestions on 
>where to buy the higher alcohol Belgian beers that I love or rare 
>microbrews, send them to me.TIA, lee 
> 
 
Copa Two in Phila has belgians on tap. 
 

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From: Bill Watt <wattbrew at buffnet.net>
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 1996 20:12:39 -0800
Subject: Gas bottles

Raymond wants to know: 
"Any suggestions on where I can get an acceptable tank, cheap ?" 
 
Try a place that refills fire extinguishers.  I went to my local fire 
extinguisher refill place with my 20# bottle and he was selling all 
sizes of co2 bottles.  Better yet, if your real lucky, you might be able 
to find one for free or cheap at a garage sale. 
- -- 
 
Brewing beer in Lancaster, NY 
Watt's Brewing 
Bill Watt - wattbrew at buffnet.net 

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From: gscott at io.org (Geoff Scott)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 21:12:03 -0500
Subject: Re: CF CHiller cleaning/sanitizing

Bob uses a corny to fill his counterflow chiller but my sanitizer is self 
propelled.  I steam clean my chiller and it couldn't be easier. 
 
(How's that for brevity?  How about digest software that puts a smaller 
limit on the length of a post and won't allow the exact same post in a 
single digest?) 
 
 
regards, 
 
Geoff Scott 
gscott at io.org 
Brewing page    http://www.io.org/~gscott 
 
 

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From: Rick Dante <rdante at pnet.net>
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 19:35:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: SNPA not bottling with "chico" rumors?

 
I've heard a rumor that Sierra Nevada is not using their Chico yeast in 
their bottled conditioned SNPA anymore.  Is this true?  If it is I better 
get a package of 1056 because I cultured a fresh plate from a bottle of 
SNPA to replace my dead chico colonies that were 2 1/2 years old. 
 
Rick Dante 
rdante at pnet.net 
 

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