(formerly Volume 02 : Number 005)



Contents:
  1996 HHHC Competition Results Available
  Re: no-sparge; first wort hopping
  Specific gravity low?
  AOB Corporate Structure
  Use of hot H2O for brewing water
  Head retention in my holiday ale
  Re: Centennial Hops
  MCI Mail Partial Posting Notice
  Re: Homebrew Digest V2 #4
  Need a new recipe
  All Shay IPA?
  Skimming
  R,DW,HAHB
  Partial Mash Confusion (was Re: yeast bite)
  Lager Conditioning/Conditioning Time & Procedures
  re: AHA Board of Advisors
  Re: Laaglander DME and stuck fermentation
  Acolades to Jim Roffey and the Roffey Brew Company
  Popcorn and Sticke?
  RE: Yeast bite / Partial mash:  George De Piro
  Hop pellets and Krauesening clarified: George De Piro
  This year's Celebration
  No sparge brewing
  War of the Worts - NJ brewers
  Need help with electric thermometer
  No Sparge
  Wife Ale / Mashing Rice
  Summer brewing
  Re: Make-your-own iodophore, not so simple


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 17:11:35 -0600 (CST)
From: Jack Baty <jack at wubios.wustl.edu>
Subject: 1996 HHHC Competition Results Available

The results from the St.  Louis Brews' 1996 Happy Holidays Homebrew
Competition, held 7 December, are available from the competition's website:

    http://www.biostat.wustl.edu/~jack/hhhc96/

 Jack Baty
 jack at wubios.wustl.edu

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Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 15:25:00 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Frane <jfrane at teleport.com>
Subject: Re: no-sparge; first wort hopping

>From: John Wilkinson <jwilkins at imtn.tpd.dsccc.com>

>Jeff Frane spoke of trying George Fix's no sparge technique for arriving at
>maltier tasting beer. I have some questions about the process.

Someone else re-posted George's description of the process, and I
would suggest referring to *that*.  George is the one who understands
the *why* of the process, not Jeff.  Trust me.

>This no sparge technique doesn't seem to make much sense to me.  Can Jeff,
>George, or anyone else explain away my doubts?
>

Because I wanted to do a two-step infusion and need to use boiling
water to achieve the second step, I ended up with a fairly thin mash,
so *most* of the liquid in the kettle had been in the mash tun at 
some time.  Don't have my notes to hand, but I didn't add more than
a couple of gallons of the seven gallons in the kettle. 

My (admittedly limited) understanding of the principle is that
sparging beyond a certain point has a negative effect on the 
malt flavor, in essence, and this is an extreme approach.  Bear
in mind that you have to add about 1/3 more malt, which has probably
got a lot to do with the flavor.  But, hey, ask George.  I'm just
another datapoint on George's research curve.
 

>From: Algis R Korzonas <korzonas at lucent.com>

Who?  Never heard of him.
Anyway, he wrote:


  Incidentally, I might add that my experience with
>first wort hopping seemed (in my opinion) to only add hop flavour and not
>much aroma.
> 

Ditto.  Definitely add positive results with the hop *flavor* and
have taken it as a new, standard procedure in brewing.  Anything that
works.  But for aroma, I'll stick to late hopping and dry hopping 
(especially dry hopping).  

- --Jeff Frane

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Date: Wed, 11 Dec 96 16:36:00 PST
From: Lino V Serrano <Lino_V_Serrano at ccm.rr.intel.com>
Subject: Specific gravity low?

Help!

I brewed an ale this weekend and I used 6lbs. of liquid malt extract 
(Premier) and 1lb. of dry malt extact.  The problem I am having is when 
I took a hydrometer reading on the wort before I pitched my Glenbrew 
secret brewers yeast, btw, it showed 1.030.  This seems very low to me 
considering the amount of fermentables +7lbs!  I was expecting 1.050+. 

:(

I put the hot wort into my carboy first, before I added water to fill up 
to 5 gals.  Is it possible that my wort wasn't properly mixed causing it 
to be higher in water on top and heavier in wort on the bottom?  One 
qlue that this might be the problem is that the wort was warmer on the 
bottom than it was on top before I pitched the yeast.

Can someone please help me out.  I'm afraid that I might end up with a 
major whimpy beer.  TIA.

Lino Serrano
Intel Corp., Fab 7

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Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 19:36:03 +0000
From: George Andrews <gandrews at golflink.net>
Subject: AOB Corporate Structure

 
To:               cathy <cathy at aob.org>
Subject:          Re: AOB Corporate Structure
Send reply to:    gandrews at golflink.net
Date sent:        Wed, 11 Dec 1996 19:32:22

Cathy,

Thank you for your letter about the AOB corporate structure and your
HBD efforts.  Since I am a newbie to homebrewing, (and having an
absolute ball by the way), I have missed a lot of the brew-ha-ha about
the HBD problems.  I subscribed just before it went down and was
immediately hooked.   This is one of the best boards for new and old
timers alike on the entire Internet!  I learned more truely useful
information  from the HBD in a short time than any of the brewers
around my hometown could provide.  For this I thank you.

Thank you also that you have taken so much time and spent so much
effort and money to continue to provide this valuable service for the
homebrewing community.  With all the talk about boycotts, the 'free'
advice about how to do what you are trying to do, and the telling of
exactly why and what you are 'doing wrong', I just wanted to say that
you and the efforts of your staff are appreciated!  The Home Brew
Digest is a noble effort and I encourage you to continue.  

The saying comes to mind "No good deed will go unpunished".  Please
don't let the impatience and intolerance of a VERY TINY number of
people discourage you.  I know there are many others like me who are
excited about what you are doing and content to wait out the process. 
To those who are not I say "relax, don't worry, have a homebrew".

Wishing you and your staff a very merry and blessed Christmas!

George Andrews 

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Date: Wed, 11 Dec 96 19:38:00 PST
From: "Toler, Duffy L." <TOLERD at cdnet.cod.edu>
Subject: Use of hot H2O for brewing water

In the *New* HBD #3, Al K. asks:

>On my last batch, however, I brought gallon jugs of HOT tapwater from the 
kitchen, just to speed things   >up.  What are your thoughts on using HOT 
tapwater?  I've read about thermophillic bacteria living in hot
>water heaters, but I'm skeptical.  I'm going to boil it all anyway, so it 
shouldn't make a difference, but >what about mineral content?

I'm no expert, but from my Micro Bio 101 days I remember this discussion. 
 Themophillic bacteria don't deal with normal fermenting temps to well.

If you have an older house like I do, I would be more concerned with lead 
leaching from solder joints.  I always use water from the cold side of the 
faucet for cooking and brewing.

I'll let the *real* experts tackle the mineral question, I would guess you 
may lose a little calcium.

Thanks for resurrecting the HBD!  Happy brewing!

Duffy Toler
tolerd at cdnet.cod.edu

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Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 21:43:12 -0500
From: Denis Barsalo <denisb at cam.org>
Subject: Head retention in my holiday ale

Hello brewers and brewsters,

	I'm just enjoying my effforts at my first Holiday Ale. It's an
all-grain, DME enhanced, hopped, spiced pale ale. The color is amazing,
it's one of the cleareast beers I've brewed, the flavors are great, nutmeg,
cinammon, vanilla, orange and honey, etc.... the only trouble is, no head
retention!!!! I pour it out, I get a nice head and almost immediately it
vanishes. The beer is still "fizzy", no lace, no head :-(

	I used enough Crystal Malt and Wheat Malt, and the FG is around
1.020 so there's plenty of body. I also "dry spiced" in the carboy... I
dunno, Now, I'm usually pretty good at figuring out what's gone wrong in my
batches and I think the problem is Orange Zest (peel).

	Could the oils from the orange peel kill the head retention? What
could I do to remedy this next year? What do you think?

Denis Barsalo

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Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 20:49:52 +0000
From: "Robert Marshall" <robertjm at hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Centennial Hops

Raymond Louvier wrote:

>I used to use Centennial Hops in all my Pale Ales, but now I can't get
>them through my Homebrew supply shop. Could anyone suggest another
>variety of Hops that are similar in characteristics and taste. My last
>batch of Centennial Hops were 9.2% AA. 

You should be able to e-mail Centennial from MOST homebrew shops. If 
you cannot find them local try Hoptech at 1-800-DRY-HOPS. Mark Garetz 
has many types of hops available.

As for a substitute. Perhaps Cascade? Its a poor substitute IMHO, as 
its not a "delicate" as Centennial, but could be used. Do yourself a 
favor and mailorder the Centennials.

Later,


Robert Marshall
robertjm at hooked.net

homepage: http://www.hooked.net/users/robertjm
- ----------------------------------------------
"In Belgium, the magistrate has the dignity
of a prince, but by Bacchus, it is true
that the brewer is king."

          Emile Verhaeren (1855-1916)
          Flemish writer
- ------------------------------------------------

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Date: Thu, 12 Dec 96 00:41 EST
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Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 02:08:55 -0800
From: Joshua Archer <rasputin at brothersdigital.com>
Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest V2 #4

Hello All, 

I'm relatively new to brewing (only done about 8 batches, 1 beer, the rest
mead and ciders), and I was wondering if anyone had any idea of how to
'sweeten' a wine/cider and still plan on carbonating it by adding priming
sugar before bottling. The way I see it is that you either have to go dry
and prime, or you use a sulfide/stabilizer to kill the yeast, add the
sugar, then force carbonate with a kegging system. I'd love to be able to
have my cake an eat it too, so are there methods of adding sugars that will
not ferment, yet still taste okay in the brew? any suggestion or experience
on the subject?  

Joshua Archer

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Date: 12 Dec 96  7:45:57 EDT
From: Bob Bessette/PicTel <Bob_Bessette at smtpnotes.pictel.com>
Subject: Need a new recipe

Fellow HBDers,

 I have gotten into a habit of making the same beer over and over. The reason 
is because I enjoy it, makes sense huh. It is an ale with Fuggles hops for 
bittering and E. Kent Goldings for aroma and requires a single step infusion 
mash. What I'm looking for is another recipe that may be your favorite which 
uses different hops than the above and is an ale (i.e. IPA, etc). If any of you 
have suggestions please email me the recipe of your choice at 
bbessett at pictel.com...

Cheers,
Bob 

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Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 07:26:00 -0600
From: "Goodale, Daniel CPT 4ID DISCOM" <GoodaleD at HOOD-EMH3.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: All Shay IPA?

Ladies, Gentlemen, and children of all ages,

	For some reason, I've been brewing IPSO with a
vengeance (it is my favorite style with octoberfest a close
second).  I remember a HBD post that described an all
shay IPA.  This concept fascinated me at the time and I've
decided to give it a try now that the blistering Texas
summer is over.  Does anyone have that recipe or
should I match IBIS and drive on with my favorite
recipe?  TIA.

Daniel Goodale (good lagers too)

The Biohazard Brewing Company
Home of the "Brew in a Lung" (TM) zero gee brew kit.

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Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 07:32:51 -0600
From: Cuchulain Libby <hogan at connecti.com>
Subject: Skimming

Hello all,
In reading Miller and Pap., they advocate skimming the head from a
plastic primary to avoid off-flavors later on (actually Miller more so).
I've got an APA w/1056 that was brewed on Sun. and the airlock is down
to about 3/min. As I'm always interested in improving my brews, does
anyone have a recommendation as to when or if I should skim, assuming
that opening the lid is O.K.? Also, AOB/AHA aside, I prefer to think
that it was the off-topic bullshit that killed the old HBD. Karma an'
all you know? I refer you to the ridiculous diatribe that was in HBD
#2280 The Last Original HBD:
- -------------------------------------------------------------
> From: WOLFF.R.C- at postal.essd.northgrum.com (WOLFF.R.C-)
>Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 08:42:32 -0500
>Subject: Enough is enough

>     Dave Burley- 
>    Why don't you brew some beer and give us all a break.  It doesn't take 
>     a genuis to copy from books and post to the HBD. What is does is take 
>     up the space that others could use for productive comments, rather 
>     than being used by someone who is full of himself. You've had your 15 
>     minutes. Give it a break. 
>     This is a group response. 
>     Wolff 
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
In the interest of maintaining the Holiday spirit I won't repost my
response to this guy. Also, getting back to 1056, I would like to know
about how many times 1056 can be recycled without washing it.

Merry Christmas All,
Cuchulain

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Date: Thu, 12 Dec 96 08:58 EST
From: eric fouch <S=eric_fouch%S=fouch%G=eric%DDA=ID=STC021+pefouch%Steelcase-Inc at mcimail.com>
Subject: R,DW,HAHB

Date: Thursday, 12 December 1996 8:54am ET
To: STC012.HOMEBRE1 at STC010.SNADS
From: Eric.Fouch at STC001
Subject: R,DW,HAHB
In-Reply-To: The letter of Thursday, 12 December 1996 0:42am ET
 
In previous posts to the New HBD:
 
>
1.  You're really flying in the face of a grand tradition by renaming HBD
to V2.  In particular, you've lost the running digest number count.  With
one fell swoop we've gone from over 2200 running issues to two.  Where's
your sense of tradition?
 
 
 
 
>
Who will now be responsible?
I dont suppose there is any way we can get an explaination as to why
Rob's years of fine tuning the HBD into an efficient, useful distribution
mechanism (aka code) were not carried over to the AOB effort.
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Let's just be happy to have the HBD back.  Tradition is nice, but the old
HBD is dead...Moment of silence........
 
The New hbd is...New!
 
Hopefully some of the old functions will be added back in, but let's all just
RDWHAHB and give 'em a chance to work on it.  AOB is putting forth an effort,
and a pretty good one, too (no affiliation, I can barely spell AOB).
 
Let's give 'em constructive suggestions and stop attacking apparent
shortcomings.
 
P.S. I really hate non-brewing related posts just like this one.  Never Again.
 
P.P.S  Somebody misspelled Rienhietsgebot in the last HBD :).  How do they
       spell it in the U.K.?
 
Eric Fouch
Defender of Truth, Justice, and the New HBD
Bent Dick Yactobrewery
Kentwood, MI

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Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 09:20:24 -0500
From: Denis Barsalo <denisb at cam.org>
Subject: Partial Mash Confusion (was Re: yeast bite)

Alex Santic said:

>However, partial mash techniques could account
>for some harsh bitterness and/or astringency, depending on how you do it.

>In an all-grain procedure, runnings from the grains are recirculated
>(using the grain bed as a filter) until they are clear. This eliminates
>starch and husk particles from the boil and helps assure a smooth flavor.
>I am somewhat dubious about the effects of the typical partial mash
>procedure, which is to simply dump the liquid into the boil.

	I'm sorry Alex, but I think you're confused as to what a partial
mash is! A partial mash is a mini-mash. It's done exactly the same as a
full-mash using the same grain to water ratio, except that you use less
grain than a full mash. To make a 5 gallon batch, you get the rest of your
fermentable from LME, DME and/or Sugar.
	I think what you may be referring to is a "grain infusion" which is
a method to add specialty malts to extract brewing. In this case, the
amounts are usually so small, that I don't think they could account for
bitterness unless of course you boil it for a while!

>Unfortunately it's probably not worth the trouble to come up with a method
>for filtering a partial mash. I wonder if others would agree that this
>particular brewing procedure may be over-rated. I wasn't overly impressed
>with the beers I made this way, but now I'm quite satisfied.

	Again, I disagree. I made myself a Zapap lauter tun and took the
plunge into partial mashes by my third or fourth batch. The difference in
the taste of the beer was obvious right from the start. I think it's a
great way to get into grain brewing without buying anymore equipment. Once
you've saved up, you can go out and get something big enough to boil 7
gallons in, then you take the next step and go all-grain.

	BTW, I've been told that some mashers actually don't mash their
specialty malts (Crystal, Roasted, Chocolate, etc.). They just mash the
2-row, 6-row, Munich, etc. and then they either add the specialty malts at
the end of the mash, or steep it in the kettle. What does everybody else
do???

Denis Barsalo

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Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 10:07:07 -0500
From: Jim Herter <james.m.herter.1 at nd.edu>
Subject: Lager Conditioning/Conditioning Time & Procedures

Al K. writes in response to George:

>My experience is very different from this.  Recently, I bottled a Bock
and a Doppelbock which were fermented and lagered at 45F for three
months.  I added no yeast at bottling time.  Both were nicely carbonated
in three weeks at 65F.

My experience has been much the same as Al's with respect to lager
conditioning. Generally I lager for two to three months. After this I bottle
the beer and leave at about 65 - 68 degrees F for two to three weeks. I have
had good carbonation in as little as 7-10 days. I can not comment on
krausening since I have not tried it yet. It may very well result in quicker
more thorough carbonation. My concern would be clarity and sediment, if that
type of thing bothers you.

Now, for a question. Recently while re-reading a portion of one of Dave
Miller's guides, he suggests moving the bottled beer to a temperature of 50
- - 55 degrees F. after the bottling sugar has been fermented (I assume 7 -10
days). His reasoning is that co2, that developes in the head space, will be
reabsorbed into the beer quicker. Applying the same principles used for
forced carbonation at lower temps, this seems to make sense, not to mention
that it would help to minimize the oxidation effects of higher temperatures
and slow autolysis. Would even lower temps help expedite this process,
assuming all bottle fermentation is complete?

Any thoughts?

Jim Herter - Business Manager
Notre Dame Food Services
219.631.0113

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Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 10:51:14 cst
From: Bill Giffin <bill-giffin at juno.com>
Subject: re: AHA Board of Advisors

Top of the morning to ye all,

>> Karen Barela said:
 We have not used the full strength of the board as effectively as we
would like to in the past.
<<

I think that this is without doubt one of the understatements of the
century.  In fact the Board of Advisors has for the most part been
ignored.  If you know a member ask how much their input has been
considered.  I have asked a couple of the members of the Board of
Advisors, we had two in our area, if their input was considered.  They
said no.

>>prestigious group of people. The Board of Advisors<<

How can you feel prestigious if you are ignored?

I keep hearing that the AHA is a membership organization.  Yet I have
never received a ballot to vote for the President of the AHA, a member of
the Board of Directors of the AOB, nor even the Board of Advisors.

I have to believe that anyone who is  chosen to the Board of Advisors
will be well house broken to the ideas and purpose of the Board of
Directors and the President of the AHA.  I question if these folks would
be chosen if their choice were left up to the "MEMBERSHIP" (chuckle,
chuckle).

I feel that this digest is an example of the competence of the AOB/AHA
VAST IDEAS with HALF VAST RESOURCES.

I allowed my "membership" in the AHA to lapse, but I assure you that if I
as a member were allowed to vote for the President of  the AHA I would
renew just to vote in a new President.

Bill

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Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 11:15:03 -0500
From: Tim Martin <TimM at southwest.cc.nc.us>
Subject: Re: Laaglander DME and stuck fermentation

Hey Neighbors,

Thanks AOB for reviving the HBD.  

Here is a personal experience with stuck fermentation using Laaglander
Light DME that might shed some light on why people are having problems
with this product.  When I first started brewing (six years ago), on my
second batch I tried Laaglander LDME for the first time and the
fermentation stuck, brew another and it stuck and brewed a third and
again it stuck.  I called the supplier and all sorts of homebrew supply
advice line folks to help solve this frustrating dilemma.  Tried all the usual
advice steps like pitching yeast again, put heating pad under carboy
which only grew some great looking spaghetti micro-bacteria stuff in the
wort.  
So,  just when I was at the point of chucking this really stupid hobby of
making my own beer and pouring 15 gallons of sweet crap and yeast
down the drain I called my supplier again and this time he informed that
Laaglander had mistakenly supplied him with 4 tons of baking or pastry
quality DME instead of brewing DME.  Apparently  Laaglander makes DME
for the baking industry as well as the brewing industry.  The baking DME
will not ferment out as complete as the brewing DME.  
So the moral of the story, buy Munton & Fison DME to be safe, perhaps
suppliers are still receiving the wrong product%^)   Oh yea...I don't think
it's stupid anymore.

Hope this helps someone.

Tim Martin
Cullowhee, NC 

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Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 8:26:43 PST
From: "Edward J. Steinkamp" <ejs0742 at dop.fse.ca.boeing.com>
Subject: Acolades to Jim Roffey and the Roffey Brew Company

My friends and I just finished a party pig from the Roffey Brew Company
in Holland Mi.  The pale ale was excellent all around with noticeably 
strong hop aroma.

What makes this experience unique for me is that Jim Roffey,  the
owner and founder of the Roffey Brew Company, was the  guy that
got me into brewing five or six years ago.  We brewed for a
couple of years in his kitchen, but then he got married and we
had to brew in the basement.  Jim wasn't satisfied with the
basement nano-brewery, so he quit his nice stable engineering job
at a major airplane manufacturing company, moved from Seattle to
Holland Michigan and is now making a living brewing beer.  I love
this hobby.

Anyway, if you are in Holland Michigan and you want a good beer
now you know where to go.

Ed Steinkamp

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Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 10:28:55 -0600 (CST)
From: snsi at win.bright.net
Subject: Popcorn and Sticke?

Howdy All,

The only thing better than having the HBD back is seeing is seeing mainstays
of the forum, like Al, George and Jeff F., are still here to add their
wealth of experience.  

First, Al piqued my interest in V2 #3 when running though beers he dry hops
he wrote "Sticke (a dryhopped version of Duesseldorfer Altbier)".  Sounds
great!  Al would you have a grain profile and hop/yeast suggestions?

Second,  I've been thinking about using popcorn as an adjunct for upcoming
ale.  Is popped corn gelatinized?

Anyway glad that the HBD is running.

Jeff Smith | '71 HD Sprint 350SX, Temp '77 GS 400 X
snsi at win.bright.net | Barnes, WI
I am so pleased that the mead is brewed!-Jane Austen

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Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 09:07:17 -0800
From: George De Piro <George_De_Piro at berlex.com>
Subject: RE: Yeast bite / Partial mash:  George De Piro

     Hello again!
     
     Al K. writes that he doesn't believe autolysis is a problem these 
     days.  I have to agree; I've let beer sit on the primary yeast for 
     embarrassingly long periods of time without a problem (well, not 
     autolysis, anyway).
     
     Is autolysis "yeast bite", though?  From what I've read, I thought of 
     autolysis as a rubbery, sulphury, rotten yeast flavor.  Isn't "yeast 
     bite" more of a sharpness, imparted by yeast that has remained 
     suspended in the beer?  Any opinions?
     
     -----------------------------
     
     Alex Santic ponders the usefulness of partial mashing, concluding that 
     it seems pointless.  This is also my opinion.  As I've written 
     somewhere before, I think that the jury rigged equipment that most 
     people (myself included) use for partial mashing produces inferior 
     results and makes lautering seem much harder than it is (I remember 
     trying to use a big colander as a lauter tun...what was I thinking!).
     
     If you currently brew from extract, and are considering taking the 
     grain plunge, do yourself a favor: forget the partial mash, go all the 
     way!  Fortune favors the bold!
     
     This is, of course, just my opinion, born from my own experience.
     
     Have fun!
     
     George De Piro  (Nyack, NY)

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Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 08:50:34 -0800
From: George De Piro <George_De_Piro at berlex.com>
Subject: Hop pellets and Krauesening clarified: George De Piro

     Howdy!
     
     Al K. wrote in response to my post about removing hop pellets from the 
     wort:
     
     >I find just the contrary in my system.  I use an easymasher-like 
     >screen in my kettles and it clogs almost immediately with pellets.  
     
     Yes, it makes sense that the finely shredded pellets would clog your 
     screen.  Note that I said that pellets are easy to remove by 
     whirlpooling; they will settle to the center of the kettle.  If you 
     are using an easy masher type of thing, then the pellets will settle 
     on it!  That's a bad thing.
          
     Al also writes that his lager experience is different from mine, and 
     that he doesn't have to kraeusen:
     
     >My experience is very different from this.  Recently, I bottled a 
     >Bock and a Doppelbock which were fermented and lagered at 45F for 
     >three months.  I added no yeast at bottling time.  Both were nicely 
     >carbonated in three weeks at 65F.
      
     I think the big difference here is that I lager my beers near 
     freezing.  I believe that 45F is too warm for lagering (just my 
     belief), and I certainly wouldn't bottle condition at 65F.  Heck, I 
     ferment my lagers at 45F, so I wouldn't expect the yeast to go dormant 
     after three months at 45F.
     
     After a few months at below 32F (0C), the beer is incredibly clear and 
     the yeast is quite sleepy!
     
     So, if you lager like Al, then priming should work.  If you lager very 
     cold, then priming is a crapshoot.  Kraeusen it, or spund your unitank 
     (one person is giggling...).
     
     Have fun!
     
     George De Piro

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Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 12:37:46 -0600 (CST)
From: "Bryan L. Gros" <grosbl at ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu>
Subject: This year's Celebration

Does anyone know if Celebration this year is made with 100% Columbus?

I'm sure glad I can get it now that I've moved east of the Bay Area.

          - Bryan
            grosbl at ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
            Nashville, TN

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Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 12:46:49 -0600
From: John Wilkinson <jwilkins at imtn.tpd.dsccc.com>
Subject: No sparge brewing

Louis K. Bonham  responded to my post of questions about no sparge brewing.
Essentially my questions were:
1) Would the amount of water in the mash tun, including the mash out addition,
   affect the maltiness of the resulting beer.
2) With no sparge the collected wort should be of higher gravity that would
   need to be diluted to reach the desired OG or less grain would be used with
   more mash out water (see 1 above).

Louis thinks I missed the point and am confusing gravity with maltiness but I
don't think so.  My point is that if no sparge brewing really works then it
must matter how much water is in the tun at run off.  With a tun full after
mash out some of the effects of sparging must surely be seen.  Also, if the
higher gravity wort is diluted with plain water to reach the desired OG why
isn't the maltiness diluted as much as if the dilution were the result of
sparging?  The only thing I can think of is that sparging washes out a higher
proportion of fermentable sugars than are in the first runnings, having
somewhat the same effect as using adjuncts like flaked corn or perhaps
even corn sugar.  If the sparged runnings are higher in fermentable sugars
then perhaps the resulting beer would be thinner with less body (maltiness?).
If this is the case, it would seem the FG should be lower with the sparged
beer.  Has this been observed?

If anyone knows why no sparge brewing results in more maltiness I have
not seen the explanation.  Of course, this would not be the only thing about
brewing that is not completely understood.  I suppose the best thing to do is
try it and see.  However, I don't ever seem to make the same beer twice so
I am not sure if my comparison will be valid.  As long as it is good to drink,
however, the time and grain will not have been wasted.
What a great hobby.

John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas - jwilkins at imtn.dsccc.com

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Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 10:49:30 -0800
From: Alan Folsom <folsom at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: War of the Worts - NJ brewers

For the convenience of our New Jersey neighbors, we have added another 
drop off point for the War of the Worts contest, to be held January 
18th.  The new drop-off point is:

    Cherry Hill Homebrew Supply
    1845 Rt 70E.
    Cherry Hill, NJ   08003
    (609) 424-3636
    contact:  Wally Daczkowski

This is not an endorsement or recommendation of this store, I have 
never been there.  However, they have been kind enough to agree to 
serve as a drop-off point, even though they were not listed on our 
flyer.

For information on the War of the Worts, please contact me at:
    Al Folsom
    folsom at ix.netcom.com
    (215) 343-6851.

Thanks.
    Al F.

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Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 14:30:01 -0500
From: Tim Martin <TimM at southwest.cc.nc.us>
Subject: Need help with electric thermometer

Hey Neighbors,

As a quasi-master of turning junk into brewing equipment I have yet
another piece I'm trying to adapt to my brewery.  It's an electric analog
thermometer salvaged from an industrial solar control panel.  It's range is
from 0 to 250 df.  It measures 1.25''w x 4''L x 3.25''D black plastic body
with a clear convex plastic cover over the gauge.  On the back are two
electrical posts, one post is marked positive with a single lead and the
other is unmarked with two leads.  I believe this works with a low
voltage DC current and a submersible temp. probe.  The is no
manufactures name to be found on the thermometer but there are
several numbers and some letters (FSIDCMA).  I would like to use this in
my brewery but I have no idea how to hook it up.  Does anyone out there
know what type of thermometer I have so I might be able to contact the
manufacture or order a probe and supply current to it.  I have exhausted
every contact in my local area to no avail so you guys are my last hope. 
Any help is greatly appreciated.

Tim Martin
Cullowhee, NC

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Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 13:40:03 -0600
From: Algis R Korzonas <korzonas at lucent.com>
Subject: No Sparge

Louis writes:
>Stated another way, let's assume you and I each generate 5 gallons of
>14P wort, but you sparge and I don't.  Obviously, I have to use more
>grain and dilute the runoff to have the same pre-boil gravity as you
>do.  If we used the same materials, fermented them with the same yeast
>and under similar conditions, etc., we'll come out with beers that are
>about the same FG.  Do they taste the same?  My experience (and I've
>done probably 15 twelve gallon batches with this technique) mirrors
>Jeff's and Dr. Fix's -- the no sparge beer tastes maltier.  
> 
>Jeff is absolutely right when he encourages everyone to try this
>technique -- it makes for a shorter, easier brew cycle, and it produces
>noticeably better beer.  Downside is increased cost, but with grain at
>$0.75/lb, you're talking about less than $3 more for an average sized
>batch.  Not much to pay.

This is vaguely related, so bear with me...

Time is the most expensive ingredient for me.  Setup, cleanup...
it's all the same whether you do one batch or two, really.

Last Saturday, in 8 hours, I made 4.75 gallons of 1.070 IPA and
11.5 gallons of 1.043 Special Bitter, from one (sort of) mash.
The initial mash started with 24.75# of M&F Pale Ale malt.  From
this I took the first runnings and made the IPA in my old 10 gal
kettle.  While this was boiling, I added 3# of crystal malt and
took another 14 gallons of runnings which I boiled down to 11.5
gallons while the IPA wort was being chilled, oxygenated, pitched,
etc.  I don't have great hopes for the Special Bitters... it was
the IPA which I was really trying to make, but I couldn't let
all those sugars go to waste.  The Bitters (two different yeasts)
will probably not win any competitions, but with 2 hours more time
(I could have quit after 6 hours and have just the IPA) I have
11.5 gallons of session beer.  The rub is that you need two kettles
and my mashtun is 18.75 gallons, but other than that, it's easy.


Al.

Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korzonas at lucent.com
korz at xnet.com

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Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 15:07:10 -0500
From: Paul Ferrara <prf at cherry-semi.com>
Subject: Wife Ale / Mashing Rice

After years of making good ales and porters, I've decided
to try to draw my wife into the homebrewing experience by 
brewing a beer that she might actually like.  

She's strictly a Michelob drinker, but over the years I've
gotten her to venture into "heavier" (her term) beers such
as Corona, SA lightship, Shipyard light, etc ...so I think
she's "primed" for a lite homebrew.  Here's the recipe I'm
planning to use:

WIFE ALE  
5 lbs American Pale malt
2 lbs Uncle Bens Converted Rice
0.5 oz EKG whole hops (6.6 alpha) (60min)
0.5 oz EKG whole hops (6.6 alpha) ( 5min)
Wyeast American Ale yeast
	(recipe for 5 US gallons)

I'm planning a single step infusion mash at 150F.
I'm using EKG hops because I have a half pound in
the freezer. 

My first question:  What do I do with the rice?
Some Ideas I've picked up from back issues of HBD,
  (and a few of my own): 
	a) Just include it uncooked in the mash
	b) boil it first, until just tender
	c) boil it until it's well overcooked		
	d) eat it for dinner and put something
		else in the beer.
My Second Question: Is Uncle Ben's Converted an
	appropriate rice to use? I chose it only
	because it's the rice we typically have
	around the house.
My last question: Any comments on this recipe
	which might improve it would be greatly
	appreciated.

TIA

Paul R. Ferrara     |||    Cherry Semiconductor Corp 
prf at cherry-semi.com |||    East Greenwich, RI    

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Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 14:02:33 -0600
From: Algis R Korzonas <korzonas at lucent.com>
Subject: Summer brewing

Steve jests:
>Al wrote before that he doesn't brew in the summer because of
>infections. My question is how do you really dedicated types keep your
>brewing water supply gardenhoses from freezing in the Chicagoland
>winters ;^)

I bring it indoors... no kidding.  I don't want my more-expensive,
drinking-water-safe hose to get mixed up with the cheapo ones for
the lawn and I don't want it to freeze in the garage.  I coil it
into a 7 gallon plastic pail.

Incidentally, I *DO* brew in the summertime, but I use an Oxynator
in stead of aerating with room air.  I simply suggested that I
don't recommend *beginners* *start* brewing in the summertime.
Furthermore, I got a call from the AHA asking how I (as a HB retailer)
felt if they moved National Homebrew Day to the Winter.  Ha!  I said
I thought it was a great idea... just as great as when I emailed it
to them in `93 and `94, phoned it to them in `95 and faxed it to them
in `96!

My freezing garden hoses and wind-burnt face should be a thing of the
past soon... Karen says I get to turn the old 1.5-car garage into a
brewery when the new 3-car garage is done.  I can see it now... 2 walk-in
coolers, one for lager fermentations, one for ales, plus a lagering fridge...
there's a restaurant supply place near here that has a dozen 6-door
commercial fridges for $1000 to $1500 each...

No silly, my HB supply shop makes $5000 profit per year... I'm a
software developer by day...

Al.

Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korzonas at lucent.com
korz at xnet.com

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Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 15:32:49 -0500 (EST)
From: djt2 at po.cwru.edu (Dennis J. Templeton)
Subject: Re: Make-your-own iodophore, not so simple

A question from last issue....

>I am finding it difficult to locate iodophor here in Australia.  I
>just noticed that the active ingredients were listed in my brand-new
>copy of "Brew Ware", so I am considering getting the iodine and
>phosphoric acid and making my own.

Iodophor is not just Iodine in phosphoric acid. Iodine (I^2) is not even
soluble in phosphoric acid. What is sold as iodophor is Iodine in a carrier
molecule. One I know of is polyvinylpyrrolidone, and the complex is called
PVP-I. The stuff we have in the lab is 11% w/w iodine, the rest being the
polymer. This makes a stable solution of Iodine in water that doesn't
gas-off the way a drop of tincture of Iodine (an alcohol solution of I^2)
would; i.e. it is a much more stable solution of iodine because of the
carrier.

I recall others saying that iodophor is sold in farm and dairy supply
stores; just be sure that it is free of detergents.

Dennis

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #2285