HOMEBREW Digest #2286 Friday, December 13 1996

Digest #2285 Digest #2287
		(formerly Volume 02 : Number 006)

  Re: partial-mashing/yeast bite
  RE: Simple No Sparge
  Re: no-sparge
  Re: Simple explanation of no-sparge technique
  Re: Need help with electric thermometer
  No sparge / AHA-AOB
  Aroma hopping
  Partial Mash Confusion (maybe/maybe not)
  Mailing Brew....
  Unfermentable sugars (Aaron Herrick)
  Re: Homebrew Digest V2 #5
  FWH, Flavor, Aroma, and IBUs
  re: Wyeast #1728
  Measuring Volume in Kettle
  Please, drop the subject
  Maple Syrup Figures
  RE:Partial Mash Confusion
  Yeasty taste
  Re: Wife Ale / Mashing Rice
  yeast banking question
  Low starting gravity concerns
  Re: Handling Specialty and Adjunct grains
  Shepherd Neame Bishops Finger Kentish Ale
  In defense of partial mash (at least mine)
  Wort Aeration question...

---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 12:33:19 -0800 (PST) From: Dave Riedel <RIEDEL at ios.bc.ca> Subject: Re: partial-mashing/yeast bite Alex Santic <alex at salley.com> writes: >Subject: Re: yeast bite >disintegrating yeast cells. However, partial mash techniques could account >for some harsh bitterness and/or astringency, depending on how you do it. [snip] >In an all-grain procedure, runnings from the grains are recirculated >(using the grain bed as a filter) until they are clear. This eliminates >starch and husk particles from the boil and helps assure a smooth flavor. >I am somewhat dubious about the effects of the typical partial mash >procedure, which is to simply dump the liquid into the boil. [snip] Hmmm... I'm not sure I completely understand what you are talking about. Where is this 'typical' partial-mash procedure outlined? In my partial-mash procedure, I mash about 4-4.5 lbs of malt+specialties in a kettle in the oven (set to 150F to reduce heat loss), transfer the mash to a Zapap, recirc. until clear, then sparge to about 4 gallons total wort. I dissolve my extracts into this wort and do a split boil on the stove-top. Granted, I haven't yet monitored pH (mash or sparge) or the gravity of the final runnings, but to the best of my knowledge, this is no different than all-grain mashing/sparging except the volume is smaller. If I could do a full-boil, I'd do all-grain. [I'm currently setting up an all-grain system, so don't mail me and tell me how simple it is, thanks]. I can't say whether or not this method is vastly superior to straight-extract, since I haven't really done any direct comparisons. But, I'm getting practice doing the full process and I've been pleased with the results. Thanks for the comments on yeast-bite. Since my beer did not sit on the yeast in the secondary for very long, I'm getting the impression that the judges may have identified 'harsh bitterness' attributable to something other than yeast. Any thoughts on that? cheers, Dave Riedel (Victoria, BC, Canada) *Still in support of digest-only, 50K/day and cancellation option* Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 16:05:20 -0600 From: "James R. Layton 972.952.3718 JLAY" <layton at sc45.dseg.ti.com> Subject: autolysis Here's a subject that comes up now and again: autolysis. I'm not sure that the problem I had in one batch last year was autolysis or not, but it had a most disgusting and unmistakeable rubbery odor and taste. I suspect autolysis but I believe it was Greg Noonan who wrote that rubbery flavor could be caused by an infection. Details from memory: An all-grain double bock, OG about 1.074. Pitched Wyeast 2124 from a 1 quart starter (I know, underpitched, but this has worked for me with OGs in the 1.050 range) into 50F wort. Long lag time, about 2 days as I recall (notes at home). Primary ferment at 50F, took maybe 3 weeks. Noticed the rubber odor when racked to secondary. Also noted that the yeast at the bottom of the carboy was a rusty-brown color. Lagered for several more weeks at 35F, primed and bottled. Rubber odor and flavor were quite strong. I was concerned at this point but hoped that age and more lagering would work it out. Sampled a bottle every month or so for 8 months. Carbonation was fine, no gushers. The rubber taste did fade somewhat but never got to the point that I could finish a bottle. I gave up on it at this point. It's still the only batch I've ever dumped. Too bad, the beer otherwise seemed fine. I've made good lagers prior to and since that batch, but I'm not going to try a high gravity beer like that again without a 5 gallon starter. I'd like to know if others have had a similar experience. Jim Layton (Howe, TX) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 96 16:58 PST From: Charles Burns <cburns at egusd.k12.ca.us> Subject: RE: Simple No Sparge Alex describes a simple sparge technique, but I'm not sure about when to add what qty of water: So, do i thin out the original mash or do I dump in hot water at the end of a mash? EG: I usually begin a mash with .75 qt/lb and do a short (15min) protein rest at 140F. I then add 1.5 gallons of boiling water to bring the mash up over 155F and let it convert for 60minutes. This would give me about 2 gallons of total wort (i think). I need 7-7.5 for a 90 minute boil. Where / When do I add the other 5-5.5 gallons? - --------------------------------------------------------------- Charles Burns, Director, Information Systems Elk Grove Unified School District cburns at egusd.k12.ca.us, http://www.egusd.k12.ca.us 916-686-7710 (voice), 916-686-4451 (fax) http://www.el-dorado.ca.us/~cburns/ Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 17:51:54 -0800 From: Kelly Jones <kejones at ptdcs2.intel.com> Subject: Re: no-sparge I think the assumption for this technique is that whatever it is that contributes 'maltiness', mostly comes out in the first runnings. Thus, if you do Batch A with 9 pounds of grain, and dilute the first runnings with sparged runnings, you'll get a wort with some OG and the maltiness of 9 pounds of grain. If you do Batch B with 12 pounds of malt, take the first runnings, and then dilute with water, you'll get the same OG as Batch A, but the all the 'maltiness' of 12 pounds of grain. Haven't tried it myself yet, so I don't know if the assumption is correct. - -- Kelly Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 21:28:59 -0500 (EST) From: Alex Santic <alex at salley.com> Subject: Re: Simple explanation of no-sparge technique >From Charles Burns: >Alex describes a simple sparge technique, but I'm not sure about when to >add what qty of water...So, do i thin out the original mash or do I dump >in hot water at the end of a mash? EG: I usually begin a mash with .75 >qt/lb and do a short (15min) protein rest at 140F. I then add 1.5 gallons >of boiling water to bring the mash up over 155F and let it convert for 60 >minutes. This would give me about 2 gallons of total wort (i think). I >need 7-7.5 for a 90 minute boil. Where / When do I add the other 5-5.5 >gallons? I didn't think through the additional complications of doing this as an infusion mash. I do a stovetop mash, so whatever water/grain ratio I want is what I start with and end with. For true infusion mashers, my advice might not be as simple as I had imagined it was, since it specifies collecting a specific volume of wort without sparging, and hence relies on ending up with a very specific mash thickness. One point I'd like to stress is that I was suggesting a straightforward approach that worked perfectly for me in practice. I don't claim long expertise in using this first-runnings approach, and there are doubtless other approaches which will work in practice. George Fix, for instance, doesn't address the issue of mash thickness. He just says to drain the grain bed and you should have 2/3 of your extract. Mash thickness will have an effect on this, but we don't know exactly how much. I based my approach on the principles of parti-gyle brewing, which suggest that the first *half* of your wort volume will have 2/3 of the extract. To collect 1/2 the wort without sparging, mash thickness is the variable you need to manipulate. This might make a real infusion mash more complicated to calculate, and it won't appeal to people who swear by a particular approach to mash thickness. Notwithstanding issues of enzyme activity and stability, I personally believe this gets down to splitting technical hairs. Your enzymes will work, your starches will convert, the beer will come out good across a range of water/grist ratios. To answer Charles' specific question about when and where to add water, here's an example. Let's say we want to make a beer of 50 points original gravity, and we normally collect 7 gallons of wort and boil down to 5.5 gallons at our desired OG. If we normally get 85% extraction, we count on 2/3 of that or 56% efficiency. This indicates we need 13 lbs of grain which will absorb about .55 quarts per lb for a total of about 1.75 gallons. To collect 3.5 gallons of wort (1/2 the total), we need to have added 5.25 gallons of water to the grain by the end of the mash. The final mash thickness winds up being 1.6 qts/lb, which is incidental but within normal parameters. We dilute the 3.5 gallons of collected wort with 3.5 gallons of water in the kettle and proceed with the boil. - -- Alex Santic - alex at salley.com Silicon Alley Connections, LLC 527 Third Avenue #419 - NYC 10016 - 212-213-2666 - Fax 212-447-9107 http://www.salley.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 02:47:23 GMT From: stencil at bcn.net (stencil) Subject: Re: Need help with electric thermometer >[... electric analog thermometer ... there are >several numbers and some letters (FSIDCMA).=20 >...] I fear that what you've got there is merely a meter movement with a custom-printed scale card. The legend on the back comes across to me as "full scale 1 DC milliampere," and you're still short all the external circuitry. Sorry. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 23:40:44 -0600 From: Louis Bonham <lkbonham at i-link.net> Subject: No sparge / AHA-AOB In response to my recent reply, John Wilkinson has a few more thoughts on no sparge brewing: > Louis thinks I missed the point and am confusing gravity with maltiness but I > don't think so. My point is that if no sparge brewing really works then it > must matter how much water is in the tun at run off. [snip] > If anyone knows why no sparge brewing results in more maltiness I have > not seen the explanation. Of course, this would not be the only thing about > brewing that is not completely understood. Like Jeff, I don't claim to fully understand the biochemical nature of the process, and I don't have access to a lab with an HPLC or gas chromatagraph to do a comparative assay of sparged v. non-sparged worts. [If anyone has the lab know-how, access to this kind of equipment, and the desire to collaborate on an article on this topic, I'll gladly do the test brews [same format as my RIMS v. decoction experiment], provide copies of the relevant ASBC methods of analysis and samples of test worts, and write the whole thing up for publication (in BT, of course).] What I *do* know from experience is that this process produces a maltier beer -- absolutely, positively, and beyond any doubt. > I suppose the best thing to do is try it and see. Please do. You'll be pleased with the results, even if the process seems counterintuitive. :) ================================================================================= Karen Barela has also recently cross-posted her reply to recent AHA-criticisms that have been aired in rec.crafts.brewing. I and other have aired exhaustive rebuttals in that forum, and rather than use limited HBD bandwidth I'll simply urge interested people to read them there (or e-mail me if you wish). However, I must respond to the recent post of a new homebrewer who seems to think that the critiques of the AHA are from a tiny, "impatient and intolerent" minority: The points at issue -- such as questions regarding the AHA/AOB's finances and claimed non-profit nature, the refusal of the AHA/AOB bureaucracy to permit members any say in the governance of those organizations, the AHA bureaucracy's refusal to consult or heed the advice of its "Board of Advisors," etc. - -- are very serious and have been raised not just by HBD readers but by members of the AHA's own Board of Advisors and by many well-respected members of the homebrewing community. Mr. Andrews, while you are, of course, free to make your own judgments, I urge you to investigate all the facts before doing so. You might be surprised. Back to brewing. Louis K. Bonham lkbonham at i-link.net Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 23:20:33 -0700 (MST) From: Hugh Graham <hugh at lamar.ColoState.EDU> Subject: Aroma hopping This is my second attempt to have this message digested. Nonetheless, ain't it great to have the HBD back? Aroma Hopping - ------------- I just bottled 10.5 gallons of a promising ESB today (this was Sunday), the recipe used Hugh Baird pale ale malt (19lb as I recall), Hugh Baird crystal (1.5 lb 80 LV) and 1/2 lb Belgian White wheat malt. Oh, and a pound of brown cane sugar. Recipe inspired by Wheeler and Protz. Batemans XXXB-like. I toured that brewery once. Anyway... 'Twas hopped with 2oz Columbus (10.0%, 90mins boil) and 2 oz Goldings (5.0 %, split into 20 10, & 0 mins additions). Irish moss added at 30 mins. OG 1.055, as I recall, FG 1.012. Wyeast London ESB yeast starter (2 quarts). I mention all this because I was so happy with the hop profile at bottling, in terms of bitterness and flavor. Those Columbus hops are marvelous. (Maltiness and body were also great, IMHO). But, in this batch as with many other brews, a noticeable hop aroma escapes us, even with the above mentioned late kettle additions. We've tried dry hopping and hop teas with little noticeable success. Perchance our fermentations are too vigorous for the late additions. Perhaps our hop teas are over boiled. Maybe our dry hops are too well confined in a little muslin bag for adequate flavor transfer. Maybe it's my nose, my brewing buddy claims to be able to detect some hop aroma, and I detect hop aroma in a couple of dry hopped beers we have made, but certainly not enough. Possibly our hops are stale. They've been frozen since they were purchased in bulk from a new shipment, however. Another recent batch used home grown cascades as a late kettle addition. Still no aroma. Beers we've entered into competitions get low marks for hop aroma. We use an in-line chiller, so our late kettle additions tend to steep for a long time in the hot wort that's waiting to be chilled. Perhaps that's the problem. FWH won't help as this only contributes to hop flavor.. Any advice appreciated. What is your favorite technique for achieving a pleasing hop aroma? How long should a hop tea be boiled? Should it be boiled at all? Thanks in advance. - -----Late night at work peeve section----- BTW, I've seen a couple of references here and in r.c.b recently to 'Bitters' as in 'Special Bitters'. As a confirmed Brit, this sounds all wrong to me. Beer is always just 'Bitter'. _Bitters_ is used in cocktails. I'll take one champagne cocktail. Or maybe just a pint of your best bitter, landlord. Thank you. Furthermore, when will some enterprising micro brew a tiny batch of beer with one hop cone in it so that those annoying Keystone TV commercials can be stopped? I got your bitter beer face right here pal. - ----- Hugh in Ft. Collins CO. Going to try a bottle of that ESB tonight. Yippee. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 08:08:31 -0500 (EST) From: Alex Santic <alex at salley.com> Subject: Partial Mash Confusion (maybe/maybe not) From: Denis Barsalo <denisb at cam.org>: >Im sorry Alex, but I think you're confused as to what a partial >mash is! A partial mash is a mini-mash. It's done exactly the same as a >full-mash using the same grain to water ratio, except that you use less >grain than a full mash. To make a 5 gallon batch, you get the rest of your >fermentable from LME, DME and/or Sugar. Well, I know what a partial mash is but I have noticed that some sources don't get much into lautering technique and often advise people to simply strain the liquid from the grains at the end of the mash. That's why I said that it depends on how you do it...you seem to be doing it in the optimal manner. I think you would agree that it might explain the original poster's astringency problem if he were not filtering the extract from the partial mash. >BTW, Ive been told that some mashers actually don't mash their >specialty malts (Crystal, Roasted, Chocolate, etc.). They just mash the >2-row, 6-row, Munich, etc. and then they either add the specialty malts at >the end of the mash, or steep it in the kettle. What does everybody else >do??? On the subject of when to add specialty grains...I just mix them in with the total grist. That's the typical commercial method, although some homebrewers like to steep them at the end of the mash or in the kettle. Frankly I'd be surprised if it made a perceptible difference in quality assuming good mashing technique either way. There could also be the occasional gotcha, such as very light crystal malts that still have some unconverted starch. - -- Alex Santic - alex at salley.com Silicon Alley Connections, LLC 527 Third Avenue #419 - NYC 10016 - 212-213-2666 - Fax 212-447-9107 http://www.salley.com Return to table of contents
Date: 13 Dec 96 08:31:19 EST From: aesoph at ncemt1.ctc.com (Aesoph, Michael) Subject: Mailing Brew.... Dear Collective: All of my relatives in the distant, far away land of South Dakota want to sample some of my homebrew. Are there any problems associated with mailing homebrew?? i.e. Is it legal?? ================================================== Michael D. Aesoph Associate Engineer ================================================== Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 07:31:24 -0600 From: "Aaron Herrick" <chemstat at phoenix.net> Subject: Unfermentable sugars (Aaron Herrick) Joshua Archer wrote: >I was wondering if anyone had any idea of how to >'sweeten' a wine/cider and still plan on carbonating it by adding priming >sugar before bottling. [snip] > so are there methods of adding sugars that will >not ferment, yet still taste okay in the brew? any suggestion or experience >on the subject? My experience has been that brewing yeasts cannot ferment lactose, or milk sugar. I'd suggest using this. Keep in mind that lactose has a different taste threshold than other sugars, so experiment by adding measured amounts of lactose to a similar wine/cider. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 08:41:24 -0500 (EST) From: "Steven A. Smith" <steven.a.smith.1 at gsfc.nasa.gov> Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest V2 #5 Please remove my name from the digest's distribution list. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 09:06:47 EST From: Barry Wertheimer <wertheim at libra.law.utk.edu> Subject: FWH, Flavor, Aroma, and IBUs Greetings, There has been some renewed discussion recently in the renewed HBD about FWH. To summarize, a few folks have commented that it imparts very nice hop flavor, and not much in the way of aroma (late kettle hopping and dry hopping being the way to go for hop aroma). This is consistent with my observations (my observations are haphazard; I have not done identical batches with and without FWH in order to compare). What I am wondering about is the bitterness contributions from FWH. As I recall the original discussions about FWH, it was speculated that first wort hops add some bitterness, but not as much as if they had been thrown in the kettle after the boil had begun. Again, my observations seem to support this, but I was wondering what others have experienced. Anyone have a guess, or data, as to the IBUs contributed by first wort hops v. the IBUs that would be contibuted if the same hops were instead added when the boil commences? Do you get 1/2 the IBUs? 3/4? Any ideas? Barry Wertheimer Return to table of contents
Date: 13 Dec 1996 14:06:28 -0000 From: MASSIMO FARAGGI <maxfarag at hotmail.com> Subject: re: Wyeast #1728 Hi all, here is 1 datapoint about "#1728 and smoke" as requested by somebody: I have recently used Wyeast Scottish #1728. (It has been my first and only liquid yeast actually). I have just tasted last night my first bottle (1 month old) and noticed NO smokey or peaty flavour; maybe it was too subtle to notice, I was just checking the beer for carbonation etc; (BTW beer is good but still too young). Some data: Wyeast pack was quite old (5-6 months) and had swollen only a bit after 3 days; starter was about 1 pint and was active within 36 hours. The beer was a "Bier de Garde" about 1062 OG. (Malt Extract, Crystal, Caramunch; N.Brewer and Hallertau hops to 25-30 BU). Areation was just by stirring and rousing. Fermentation started after 5-6 hours and was very fast (1061-->1016 in 2 days) Temperature between 20-21 C (please translate yourself to F!), slighty higher during the first few hours. Open-fermented in plastic; no secondary; bottled after 8 days. I made a Barley Wine then and fermented it directly on the yeast sediment of the previous beer; it started almost immediately and went very fast from 1098 to 1022; I still have to taste it; I'll report about its "smoke" charachter (if any). Cheers Massimo Faraggi GENOVA - ITALY maxfarag at hotmail.com - --------------------------------------------------------- Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - --------------------------------------------------------- Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 09:11:51 EST From: Barry Wertheimer <wertheim at libra.law.utk.edu> Subject: Measuring Volume in Kettle Greetings, Before the hiatus, there was some discussion starting as to how people tell how much liquid is in their brew kettles (usually a converted keg). Someone suggested making indelible marks on a wooden dowel representing various volume levels and using the dowel as a measuring device. Is there a good way to safely (for the keg), and legibly, mark volume levels directly on the inside of a converted keg? Barry Wertheimer Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 08:58:26 -0500 From: WOLFF.R.C- at postal.essd.northgrum.com (WOLFF.R.C-) Subject: Please, drop the subject Dave Burley, I hereby publicly apologize for the crass message I posted to the HBD. The hbd is for ALL to use and comment on brewing etc. I posted the message and felt badly. Please excuse me. To the people who responded to me: Some comments were written in a very gentle tone to perhaps inform me of my mistake in a gentlemanly way-Thank you. Two were very hostile and would be better off forgotten, maybe they also had a bad day. Now to the crux of the matter; On the last posting there was a message placed by hogan at connecti.com stating that my type of message was one of the reasons for the HBD being down for awhile. That is rather far stretched. As for their response to me_I never received one-. I think that it was in very bad taste to repost this and bring it back up for no reason whatsoever other than for whatever MS/MR Hogan thought they were accomplishing. Not only does it again slap at Mr. Burley(the innocent in this matter) but it allows others who didn't see it get to comment on the stupid posting that I did. If someone has a problem with me, personally, and you really want to confront me over something as stupid as this here is the number 410-552-2514. Leave a message or your number if I don't answer I WILL RETURN YOUR CALL_OK MS/MR HOGAN. This has really pissed me off and I would appeciate it if you didn't pull this type of S--T again. To everyone ! PLEASE just forget this whole incident and lets get on with the HBD for its real publishing--MAKING BEER-NOT WAR!! To all of you who know me I apologize to you twofold. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. Bob Wolff SEnior Chemical Engineer Northop Grumman Corp Baltimore "I have a high art-I wound with cruelty those who wound me" Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 96 07:27:37 mst From: "Barry Blakeley" <BlakeleB at den.disa.mil> Subject: Maple Syrup Figures How's it going, eh? I need to know the important figures for maple syrup in brewing, i.e. SG, Lovibond, etc. Your assistance is greatly appreciated. Keep your sticks on the ice! ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ darn floor Barry Blakeley Webslinger blakeleb at den.disa.mil DISA Support Activity (303)676-1710 Denver, Colorado USA big bite ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Return to table of contents
Date: 13 Dec 96 9:30:11 EDT From: Ted Sadler/VENTANA <Ted_Sadler/VENTANA.ITP at lgate.vmedia.com> Subject: RE:Partial Mash Confusion Denis Barsalo replied to Alex Santic with: [snip] >> Again, I disagree. I made myself a Zapap lauter tun and took the >> plunge into partial mashes by my third or fourth batch. The difference in >> the taste of the beer was obvious right from the start. I think it's a >> great way to get into grain brewing without buying anymore equipment. Once >> you've saved up, you can go out and get something big enough to boil 7 >> gallons in, then you take the next step and go all-grain. I just cracked open the results of batch #9 which was my second attempt at a partial mash so yes I'm still a newbie and yes I'm still working at some bugs in my process. But I work with 4 other homebrewers and we all agree this is my best batch yet. Not only is the head retention good, but it's got great mouthfeel and flavor - even the "extract tang" is hardly noticeable! And do you know what? The only extra equipment it required was two extra muslin bags. I threw all the crushed grains into them, did a step-infusion mash, "sparged" into a second pot of water at 170F and then carried on with the brewing like a normal extract. When I have the money, time and space for all-grain, I'll definitely move up since my partial mash experiment was so successful. But for now, partial mash seems to make a tremendous improvement in the finished product with very little added effort or cost. Off subject, anyone who feels compelled to complain about AHA/AOB, how about doing that in direct email to them; This is not the "B*&!#h at AHA Digest". Thanks. Ted Sadler Strength is the ability to break a chocolate bar into four pieces with your bare hands. And eat only one piece. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 14:32:29 -0000 From: Graham Stone <gstone at dtuk.demon.co.uk> Subject: Yeasty taste In a conversation with a chap connected with the Hopback brewery in Salisbury, UK we were talking about the problems home brewer have reproducing commercial beers - I was trying to reproduce Summer Lightning. He passed a comment which I didn't pick up on immediately and so I didn't question. He said that if I was only brewing 5 gals at a time, I would never be able to totally reproduce the commercial brew. Why would the length of brew affect it's consequent taste/character? Any ideas? Another point he made which I do understand to be correct is that we home brewers rarely pitch enough yeast. He suggested that if I wanted to brew 5 gals at a time, 1/2 pint of yeast slurry would be the minimum necessary and 2 pints would not be too much. Furthermore, he added that he thought that 60% of the fine taste of the beer comes from the yeast. Another point I picked up but I'm not sure I understand is that yeast may be reused from one batch to the next but only up to 3 times. After that it should be restarted from a seed culture (or original bottled beer I guess). I have been using the yeast from 4 bottle Summer Lightning (available in the UK from some branches of Odd Bins) and have so far brewed over 100 gals of beer from it. Typically, I ferment for 7 days before racking off the bulk of the yeast into another container from where I ferment for another 7 days. I recover the yeast thrown down in the second container and use it in the next batch of beer (occasionally, I have used the stuff from the first fermentation vessel). Interesting, I have noticed a gradual reduction in the activity of the yeast (as evidenced by the head/crust formation during fermentation) and a slight decrease in the quality of the taste in general. Now, just of complicate matters further, I have a problem controlling the temperature of the room where I ferment. In the summer, the room stays pretty well constant between 18-20C day and night. However, in the winter because the house is not heated during the day, the temperature can fluctuate from about 15-24C. So, should I be looking to restart my yeast more often or could the cause of the problem be the fluctuation in fermentation temperatures? Has anybody got a solution to the temperature fluctuation problem? Finally, what is a reasonable length of time to condition a 5 gal batch of OG about 1050? Graham Stone Portsmouth, UK Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 10:31:45 -0500 From: nerenner at umich.edu (Jeff Renner) Subject: Re: Wife Ale / Mashing Rice Paul Ferrara <prf at cherry-semi.com> asked about a lighter ale using rice for his wife. My suggestion is to use German (or German-American) hops to get a more familiar flavor for a Michelob drinker, and a neutral yeast such as 1056. Cook the rice thoroughly with plenty of water and some of the malt to keep it from becoming a sticky lump. Hold it at 153F for a half hour before boiling it for a half hour. Then add it to the rest of the mash which has been at 122F protein rest for 20 minutes or so. If you are lucky, this will bring the mash up to 153F saccharification temperature, but you may need to adjust with some cold or boiling water. Uncle Ben's is unnecessarily expensive, but should work fine. Since it is parboiled, it may not actually need cooking, but you do need to thoroughly soften it, and cooking is the fastest way. It wouldn't hurt to coarsely grind it. (I recently saw an ad for a fancy dog food which proudly proclaimed that one of their premium ingredients was "brewer's rice." Hell, brewer's rice is just cheap broken rice that can't be sold to folks who want to eat whole kernels.) Now if you really want to please both her and you, make a light (1.042) version of Classic American Pilsner with 20-25% flaked corn, 20-25 IBU, lager yeast and lager fermentation at 48F and lagering at 33F. Flaked corn needs no cooking. Or maybe even an unlight version (OG 1.048, 30+IBU). My non-beer drinking wife has actually asked for a glass of CAP, and a woman visitor a month ago pronounced it the best beer she had ever had. That nonsense about American brewers constantly lightening the flavor of their beers over the last 50 years is just that - nonsense. CAP is a newly AHA recognized style, so save a few bottles and enter them in the Nationals. - -=-=-=-=- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 10:17:37 -0600 From: Robert DeNeefe <rdeneefe at compassnet.com> Subject: yeast banking question I'm getting interested in yeast banking and I have a question that I can't find an answer to. How long can one maintain a specific culture? The Brewtek kit (http://www.brewtek.com) mentions that yeast on slants will remain stable for 9 to 12 months. What do you do after that? Do you buy a pure strain to culture from or can you reculture from your slants that are reaching maturity? It seems that you should be able to reculture since the yeast companies obviously keep one strain going for ages, but I'm not sure if this requires some special techniques or equipment (ultra sterile environment, strong microscopes, etc.) that wouldn't be an option for a homebrewer like me. Yeast ranchers, I'm all ears! Robert Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 08:47:19 -0800 (PST) From: palmer at San-Jose.ate.slb.com (Eric Palmer) Subject: Low starting gravity concerns Lino V Serrano <Lino_V_Serrano at ccm.rr.intel.com> writes: >I brewed an ale this weekend and I used 6lbs. of liquid malt extract >(Premier) and 1lb. of dry malt extract. The problem I am having is >when >I took a hydrometer reading on the wort before I pitched my Glenbrew >secret brewers yeast, btw, it showed 1.030. This seems very low to >me >considering the amount of fermentables +7lbs! I was expecting 1.050+. Don't worry about it. Tomorrow, I will bottle a batch made from 7# liquid extract that had a starting gravity of 1.052. Yours wasn't mixed sufficiently. How did you aerate it? Hopefully, you shook the carboy up after topping it off with water and adding the yeast. Then, would have been the time to take the hydrometer reading (after the froth settled). It also sounds like you didn't cool the wort sufficiently before pitching. It shouldn't have been any hotter than about 80deg max before pitching the yeast, else you risk killing the yeast. Eric "Beer improves with age. The older I get, the more I like it" Return to table of contents
Date: 13 Dec 96 11:51:17 EST From: "David R. Burley" <103164.3202 at CompuServe.COM> Subject: Re: Handling Specialty and Adjunct grains Brewsters: Dennis Barsolo asks: > BTW, I've been told that some mashers actually don't mash their > specialty malts (Crystal, Roasted, Chocolate, etc.). They just mash the > 2-row, 6-row, Munich, etc. and then they either add the specialty malts at > the end of the mash, or steep it in the kettle. What does everybody else > do??? > Dennis, it is your choice. Adding specialty grains ( e.g. Crystal Malt) which have dextrins as part of their character should be added after the beta amylase is gone from the mash tun to preserve these dextrins. I add them during the last half hour of a 90 minute saccharification step when presumably only alpha amylase is active for the most part. Adding them at the beginning will produce a less dextrinous beer. - --------------------------------------- Paul Ferrara is venturing into adjunts for his wife and asks: My first question: What do I do with the rice? My Second Question: Is Uncle Ben's Converted an appropriate rice to use? I My last question: Any comments on this recipe which might improve it would be greatly appreciated. A single infusion mash as you propse will not work as you intend, if the rice is not properly prepared. I always use a multi-step infusion mash with a goods mash for the adjuncts. Here's how I do it: Prepare a "goods" mash as follows: Gelatinize the starch in the rice by cooking it. Cool it. Add 2# of crushed malt and water to your rice and put it through a quick mash. I use a protein rest (perhaps not so necessary in the case of rice as in other adjuncts) and a saccharification step to reduce the mash viscosity. This is then added to the mash and I carry it through the various temperature stages. Uncle Ben's should be OK and gelatinize faster than regular rice. I have recently started "flaking" ( i.e. crushing it to about 1/3 size of the original grain) the dry grain with my mill and then making a goods mash to get a squidge more extraction in high adjunct cases. For my Classsic American Lager styles, I use 30% rice or corn in the grist. - --------------------------------------------------------- Keep on brewin' Dave Burley Kinnelon, NJ 07405 103164.3202 at compuserve.com Voice e-mail OK Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 96 10:49:22 CST From: Paul Sovcik <U18183 at UICVM.UIC.EDU> Subject: Shepherd Neame Bishops Finger Kentish Ale I just picked up a bottle of this beer last night and was struck by the similarity of this beer to the Ales I remember drinking in England ten years ago. I recall that the characteristics of this beer were discussed in the 'old' HBD not too long ago, but no one was able to accurately state what contributed the unique taste. IMO, it is a taste that typifies the best of the bitters, and it is a taste that I would kill (well, maybe maim) to emulate in my brewing. I just wish I knew what I could do. The elusive taste is not diacetyl as far as I can tell. It seems to be contributed by the malt, and reminds me of a toasty flavor. Anyone have any ideas? Any beer judges out there who have evaluated this? - -paul - ------------------------------------------------ Paul Sovcik, Western Springs, IL "Better brewing thru Chemistry" PJS at uic.edu OR U18183 at uicvm.uic.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 11:06:34 -0600 (CST) From: Jeff Smith <snsi at win.bright.net> Subject: In defense of partial mash (at least mine) Howdy All, Partial mash brewing has been a godsend for me. It has let me get as close to all grain brewing as I can with the equipment I have (now that I have access to propane cooker I'll start the new year by going all grain). I started with the colander method (which sucks) and now use a Phil's mini masher. Partial mashing has allowed me to first wort hop, control the color of my beer, increase malty flavors, experiment with rice, wild rice, flaked corn, roasted pearled barley and (hint hint) popcorn. I know that if I had to go though the last 2-1/2 years and 60+ batches as an extract brewer I might not be brewing now. I do think that George De Piro is right in that if you have no limits "go all the way!" but if limited by cooking power or space to store the larger equipment, partial mash may be a good step for you. But don't use a colander. AlK wrote: >Karen says I get to turn the old 1.5-car garage into a >brewery when the new 3-car garage is done. I can see it now... 2 walk-in >coolers, one for lager fermentations, one for ales, plus a lagering fridge... >there's a restaurant supply place near here that has a dozen 6-door >commercial fridges for $1000 to $1500 each... Al, I was looking at making vacation plans for the summer. Can I book the garage in July? ;) Jeff Smith | '71 HD Sprint 350SX, Temp '77 GS 400 X snsi at win.bright.net | Barnes, WI I am so pleased that the mead is brewed!-Jane Austen Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 12:10:37 +0500 (EST) From: macher at telerama.lm.com Subject: Wort Aeration question... The following just rang a bell about a question I keep asking myself as a newbie, and then forgetting... On Fri, 13 Dec 1996, Eric Palmer wrote: > How did you aerate it? Hopefully, you shook the > carboy up after topping it off with water and adding the yeast. > Then, would have been the time to take the hydrometer reading > (after the froth settled). I have been syphoning the cooled wort from my brewing pot(extract) and letting it drop into the 5 gal carboy from the top of the opening, clipping the syphoning hose there. Makes a lot of bubbles, etc, Question: If I syphoned more quietly and then topped off the carboy, how would shaking the carboy aerate the wort? Where would the O2 come from? For this reason, after shaking the first carboy, I stopped. I have only brewed 5 batches so far, and have only used dry yeast. In all cases the yeast started in about 6 hours, and the mix churned impressively for two days, blowing off a lot of stuff. Then all got quiet, and remained quiet in the seconday for a week, until kegged. I wonder: 1) should I do more to aerate the wort before dropping it into the carboy? Currently I am doing little or nothing. 2) Does shaking a full carboy really have any effect in aeration? My final gravities have been somewhere between 1.016 and 1.020. OG has been uncertain, since all but one batch was not a full boil, and I question my ability to mix wort/water well enough to trust the reading. Appreciate any/all answers.... Bill OH, by the way, the beer tastes good! I have been kegging and force carbonating, but this last batch I am trying natural carbonation. Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #2286