(formerly Volume 02 : Number 011)



Contents:
  Floc'n of Alt Yeast?
  Holiday receipe
  Water volumes, Acronyms
  Re: No Sparge Brewing (_why_ it's maltier)
  No sparge Question
  Re: Belgian Abbey brews
  re: Fermenting in 5-gal kegs
  RE: Coffee in Beer
  Amber ale & Pale ale/bitter
  Plastic Brewing / Stop the Sparging Madness!!
  Re: Homebrew Digest V2 #10
  Re:Homebrew Digest V2 #10
  Bottling in Chimay bottles/Rollermills/skimming
  Suspended particles and liquid density....
  Re: Homebrew Digest V2 #10
  Re: Belgian Abbey beers
  Force Carbonate
  Re: Fermenting in 5-gal kegs
  Secondary in Kegs
  plastic kettles
  Jethro on FWH'ing/Dryhopping
  Re: "and Proud of It" (fwd)
  Breakfast beer stuff
  Counter Pressure Bottle Filling


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 11:55:57 +0000 (GMT)
From: DAVE BRADLEY IC742 6-7932 <BRADLEY_DAVID_A at LILLY.COM>
Subject: Floc'n of Alt Yeast?

Hello Fellow Brewer/sters-

If you have used the Yeast Labs "Dusseldorf Alt" yeast (?A06?), have
you had difficulty getting the beer to clear?  I probably am at the
mercy of a yeast which wants colder lagering to clarify.  Alt yeast.
It seemed like a good idea at the time, use an Alt yeast to give my
pale ale (not American) a good malty and grainy-spicy flavor.
Please let me know if you have achieved good flocculation with this
yeast _without_ resorting to lagering below 45F.

Dave in Indy
Home of the 3-B Brewery, (v.) Ltd

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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 96 07:52:35 EST
From: gravels at TRISMTP.NPT.nuwc.navy.mil
Subject: Holiday receipe

Hello All,

     This doesn't have anything to do with beer, but I thought with 
the lack of content in yesterdays HBD and tense attitude some of have 
had of late we could all use a smile.  Read on.

Here is a special holiday fruitcake recipe that I thought you might 
enjoy:

Fruitcake for the Holidays!

     One cup of water
     One cup sugar
     Four large aggs
     Two cups of dried fruit
     One teaspoon of baking soda
     One teaspoon salt
     One cup brown sugar
     Lemon juice
     Nuts
     One bottle whiskey

Sample the whiskey to check for quality.  Take a large bowl.  Check 
the whiskey again.  To be sure it is the highest quality, pour one 
level cup and drink.  Repeat.
Turn on the electric mixer, beat one cup of butter in a large fluffy 
bowl.  All one teaspoon of sugar and beat again.  Make sure the 
whiskey is still okay.  Cry another tup.  Turn off the mixer.  Break 
two leggs and add to the bowl and chuck in the cup of dried fruit.  
Mix on the turner.  If the fried druit get stuck in the beaterers pry 
it loose with a screwsdriver.  Samplethe whiskey to check for 
tonsisity.  Nexst sift two cups of salt.  orsomthing.  Who cares?  
Check the whiskey.  Now sift the lemon juice and strain your nuts.  
Add one table.  Spoon.  Of the sugar or somthin.  Whatever you can 
find.  Grease the oven.  Turn the cake tin to 350 degrees.  Don't 
forget to beat off the turner.Throw the bowl out of the window.  Check 
the whiskey again and go to bed.

Rum may be rebstituted for the driskey, although rooking at the lecipe 
again, it doesn't seem to dake a mifference what you bow in the 
throwl!


Merry Christmas!

and Happy New Year!

       Steve Gravel   Newport, Rhode Island
        gravels at trismtp.npt.nuwc.navy.mil
"Homebrew, it's not just a hobby, it's an adventure!"

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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 96 09:12 EST
From: eric fouch <S=eric_fouch%S=fouch%G=eric%DDA=ID=STC021+pefouch%Steelcase-Inc at mcimail.com>
Subject: Water volumes, Acronyms

Date: Wednesday, 18 December 1996 9:08am ET
To: STC012.HOMEBRE1 at STC010.SNADS
From: Eric.Fouch at STC001
Subject: Water volumes, Acronyms
In-Reply-To: The letter of Tuesday, 17 December 1996 5:52pm ET
 
HBD'rs:
 
Ken Fritz (and the rest of us) can expect an increase in volume of his water
from 4 C (its most dense state) to 100 C (its least dense state) of 4.1%.
Thats an increase of about .41 gallons per 10 gallons.
As far as the volume increase of a SS pot, too many variables (and too much
math) prevents me from bothering with the estimation.  I would bet that volume
loss due to evaporation would make trying to evalute the net thermal volume
change difficult if not meaningless.
 
Leave it to Jethro to throw us another acronym.  For SMs' list,
CSF = Cerebro Spinal Fluid.  (ouch]])
I guess the connection between CSF and homebrewing is removal of enough
of the former prevents performance of the latter.
 
Eric Fouch
Obfuscation Eschewer Extraordinaire
Bent Dick Yactobrewery
Kentwood, MI
 
P.S. Mr. Gump- Appetent Expectations for an Expeditious Amelioration

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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 09:21:35 -0500 (EST)
From: 00bkpickeril at bsuvc.bsu.edu (Brian Pickerill)
Subject: Re: No Sparge Brewing (_why_ it's maltier)

>>Spencer Thomas writes:
>
>>Alternatively, a higher proportion of the "malty" flavor compounds
>>come out in the first runnings than in the spargings.

>That's what I originally concluded. Later I realized that there was no
>logical reason why this should be the case. ...

I think that it's probably true that the wort left behind in the grain is
as good as the first runnings, but the process of sparging is rinsing some
compounds from the _husks_ that is detrimental to the malty taste.  I think
it's pretty obvious that sparging below 1.010 for example, is just an
arbitrary cut off point.  You probably get more and more grainy, husky
flavors the more you sparge, which makes the beer end up tasting less malty
(sweet).  If my hypothesis is true, you could make a "medium malty" brew by
doing a
"partial sparge."

Does that make sense to anyone but me?  :)  I haven't even tried NSB yet
(but I'm planning on it).  Sorry, like we need another acronym...

- --Brian Pickerill, Muncie Malt Mashers, Muncie, IN

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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 96 09:42:54 EST
From: tgaskell at syr.lmco.com
Subject: No sparge Question

Greetings all,

Damn its nice to have the digest back!  And a "get well quick" to Jethro.  
You need to get home from the hospital so you can become sleep-deprived 
compliments of the new junior brewer.

Okay - brewing content follows:

I have been following the thread on Dr. Fix's no sparge technique, and the 
one issue that really confounds me is that it sounds as if the collected 
sparge *reduces* maltiness more than pure water added to top up the boil.  
Does anyone else come away with this impression?  Where did you guys lose 
me?  Or is this what is really being said?

To successfully conduct a no sparge mash, does the mash need to be thinned 
out substantially to get close to the boil volume you are aiming for?

I am not yet convinced that I want to try no sparge.  Until the real meat 
of the matter is explained, I will be in my brewhouse/garage cranking out 
decoction mashed nectar.

One more thing:  Is the SA Winter Lager stylistically a weizen bock, and 
if so, is it within style?

May this holiday season be your most fondly remembered.

Cheers, 
 
Tom Gaskell  tgaskell at syr.lmco.com  Hog Heaven Homebrewery  Clayville, NY, USA

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Date: 18 Dec 1996 07:58:23 -0800
From: Dion Hollenbeck <hollen at axel.vigra.com>
Subject: Re: Belgian Abbey brews

>> Richard Gardner writes:

RG> I made a strong ale (allgrain) about a month ago using Wyeast
RG> 1388, "Belgian Stong Ale."  Does anyone have any eperience with
RG> this yeast?  OG 1.072, tonight SG 1.016, but still very
RG> cloudy. I'm wondering how long untill it starts clearing.

I have not used this yeast, but maybe my experience with yeast
cultured from Golden Dragon Belgian Strong Ale by van Steenberge will
help.  It, too, is *very* hard to clear.  I tend to condition with
force carbonation at 34F in the keg for about 6 months at which time
it has dropped out some, but not much.  Then I bottle and continue at
34F and after about 2 months, it drops out completely and forms the
hardest yeast cake I have ever seen.  Tried filtering once and this
was a futile effort.  Tried fining with gelatin into the secondary,
wasted effort also.  If the Wyeast 1388 is a relative, you will have
an incredibly long time in getting it to clear.  

The GD yeast I cultured, however, sure is worth the time it takes.  No
other yeast I have found imparts such a wonderfully complex, clovey,
banana estery, woody, leathery taste and small.  I use only pale malt,
a pound of amber Candi Sugar and 1/2 oz. each of coriander and orange
peel at the end of the boil.  I am confident that 95% of the flavor
and character of this beer comes from the yeast.

dion


- -- 
Dion Hollenbeck (619)597-7080x164                 Email: hollen at vigra.com
                                             http://www.vigra.com/~hollen
Sr. Software Engineer - Vigra Div. of Visicom Labs  San Diego, California

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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 11:13:45 -0500
From: stencil <stencil at bcn.net>
Subject: re: Fermenting in 5-gal kegs

Gary Eckhardt <gary_eckhardt at realworld.com>  wrote:
> 
> Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 12:18:36 -0600

> Subject: Fermenting in 5-gal kegs
> 
> 1) I understand that when used as a primary, I should have a blowoff
>    tube.  Is this really necessary for a secondary?  
I haven't found it so. I have occasionally racked incompletely-fermented
wheat beer to a Cornelius keg (usually when it was a Sunday and I didn't
want to leave it lying on the yeast another week) and was pleased to
find it nicely carbonated after a few weeks at 55F. I have from time to
time primed a keg full of simple lager, treating it like a large bottle:
a week at 55F and a month at 35F.  The (used) corny kegs are stamped
with a 110-psi rating.  When I've popped the relief valve I get a
bleedoff that's nowhere near as strong as I get when I've pressurized to
50 psi during cleaning.
> 2) What's the suggested way of attaching an airlock onto one of the
>    valves?
I would propose a foot-long piece of 3/8-in ID vinyl tubing with a
barbed gas fitting at one end and an airlock jammed into the other;  a
little wire should help keep it upright and out of the traffic pattern. 
Of course, it must go on the gas side. I always store them upright; if
they're on their sides you'll have to be scrupulous about keeping the
gas fitting above the liquid.
> 3) Do I have to modify my "liquid out" diptube, i.e. cutting it off
>    shorter?  Should I leave this tube in while fermenting, or
>    leave it out until I'm ready to rack off the beer?
Hmm... why rack off?  I would think the object of the exercise would be
beer on tap.  If you want just to lager, glass carboys are simpler,
cleaner, cheaper. Tapping the keg, you harvest yeast the first glass or
two, then it's clear sailing.
> 4) I've read conflicting opinions on the effect of the physical
>    size of the fermenter (i.e. tall and skinny) and the ability
>    for yeast to flocculate, etc.  Anything I should be worried
>    about?
Not in my (limited) experience.  Keep a clean bore, fresh ammunition,
and Don't Worry.

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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 96 08:48:51 PST
From: b_roach at emulex.com (Brad Roach)
Subject: RE: Coffee in Beer

I recently tried a Blind Pig beer that had StarBuck's coffee in it.
Very Good! I plan on making some myself so I asked about their process.

What they do is add fresh brewed coffee when they rack between the
primary to the secondary. I don't how much so alittle experimentation
will be required.

Good Luck!

Brad Roach

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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 09:52:23 -0700
From: Vince <VJMitchell at asu.edu>
Subject: Amber ale & Pale ale/bitter

Hi all and happy holidays!

I am looking for recipes for both amber and pale ales that are not
bitter or real hoppy!  I have enjoyed some of both that are produced
here locally in Pheonix, but have been unable to figure them out.  the
particular brew master are of absolutley no help at all.  Any help would
be greatly appriciated! You all may e-mail me direct or post here machs
nichs! Thanks.

Vince Mitchell
VJMitchell at asu.edu

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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 11:57:18 -0500
From: KennyEddy at aol.com
Subject: Plastic Brewing / Stop the Sparging Madness!!

Daryl K Kalenchuk asks:

"I would like to ask those who _use_ or have knowledge of plastic, what would
be an appropriate plastic 'kettle'?"

I assume you mean you plan to install electric elements in the bucket, since
setting a plastic pail over a Cajun Cooker would result in, um, serious
brewing difficulties.

Let me direct you to my home page (URL below) for a detailed description of
my Five Gallon Plastic Electric Brewery.  I used 7-gal HDPE fermenter buckets
with 240V / 4500W elements.  The HLT has a single 4500W element to heat water
quickly.  The boiler uses two elements and a power diode to give me 1125W and
2250W over the two elements, which keeps the power density (watts per square
inch) under control.  I have made perhaps 15 batches since firing it up in
March and all have come out well (not counting a couple "creative recipe"
disasters).

*****

Tim Martin asks about sparging:

Question 1) why would I start extracting tannins just because I reach the
magic number of 1.010.  

The idea is that a "thick" sugar solution (like 1.100 SG wort runoff) won't
dissolve as much stuff as a "thin" solution (like 1.010 SG runoff).

2) why does one extract tannins at all 

Tannins are extracted from the husks of the grain, so there's no getting
around having them.  Best we can do is try to leave them behind in the
mashtun.

High sparge-water pH (>6.0) will also aid in extraction of tannins; thus the
practice of acifiying one's sparge water -- simply put, if the pH of the
sparge water going in is under 6, and the mash pH is under 6 (which it will
be), then the runoff can not go above 6.  Incidentally, gypsum has
practically no acidification effect on plain water -- it reacts with the mash
to lower pH, but in plain water, not much happens.  Use phosphoric or lactic
acid.

3) would anyone take an educated guess whether I probably extracted tannins
with that last gallon of clear runnings 

If you didn't really acidify the sparge water and the runoff was clear &
bland, you probably set up the right conditions to do so.  If your beer
tastes real grainy or astringent (drying, tannic, like grape skins), then
yes.  If not, then no.

If you did, store ("lager") the beer cold for a long period of time (after
carbonation develops) to help precipitate the tannins out of the beer.  You
can also try to clean up an in-process batch using finings.  I think Polyclar
is useful for removing tannins, but I may be off on that point (anyone?).

4) is there an easier method to determine when to stop sparging that I have
over looked 

I read once where someone said that runoff stopped tasting sweet at around
1.012, tastes like plain hot water down to about 1.008, then starts tasting
like tea (tannins) below that point.  If the runoff tastes like plain water,
you're in that "time to stop" window.

You could take SG readings of the runoff (which as you say is a PITA; in my
system I woul have to continuously remove and reattach the transfer tubing).
 pH readings can help too (stop when pH > 6.0).

Another Old Wive's Tale Rule o' Thumb says sparge with the same amount of
water you mashed with.  If you come up short on boil volume, I suppose you
could then add water directly to the kettle.  You could take an SG reading of
the sparged wort (stir well first), and do the math to see when simply adding
water to the kettle makes more sense.  If you have collected 4 gal for a 5
gallon batch, your gravity should be 5 / 4 or 1.25 times the recipe OG (if
you're shooting for 5 gal at 1.040 or 40 points you should have 4 gal at
1.050 or 50 points).  If you're there or close anyway, dump the water into
the kettle and get on with it.  If not, you need more sugar, so keep sparging
(or do the actual runoff test just this once to see if there's really any
sugar left).  Use the *batch* volume (5 gal), not the *boil* volume (maybe 6+
gal).

5) I'm I being too anal.

Join the club.

*****

One More Time on No-Sparge:

I'm off from work all next week so I plan to get a couple of brew sessions
in.  I think I'm going to do two no-sparge brews to try to quantify the
process, at least for my setup.  Besides, perhaps the "yummy malt flavor"
obtained this way will make a decent Oktoberfest without the decoction.

Since I normally use a 5-gallon cooler with copper manifold for mashing, I'll
be limited to about 1.050 gravity.  So that batch will be some sort of
Average Ale (probably a brown ale).  I'll also borrow a friend's 10-gal
cooler with a Phil's Phalse Bottom for the 1.060-ish OFest.  He recently did
a no-sparge but had some system problems and so the data he recorded wasn't
completely reliable, but what he did get seems to support a 33% increase in
grain bill with a 1.25 - 1.3 qt/lb mash thickness.  This will be my starting
point too. 

Hopefully I'll be able to see if there's any significant difference in
performance between these two systems while collecting data at the same time.
 I'll post results shortly thereafter (so get your Page Down finger warmed
up).

*****

Ken Schwartz
El Paso, TX
KennyEddy at aol.com
http://members.aol.com/kennyeddy

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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 09:23:47 -0800 (PST)
From: Badger <badger at nwlink.com>
Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest V2 #10

> From: "Kevin R. Kane" <deviator at aracnet.com>
> Subject: Coffee in Beer

> My geuss is that the best technique would be to add fresh ground coffee
> to the wort just after I stop boiling (and after I strain out most of my
> hops), and steep it for 15-20 min.
> 
> HOW MUCH COFFEE ??
> I am planning on using Starbucks Espresso Roast, in a fairly strongly
> flavored sweetish porter. References range from 1/4 cup to 1/2 pound!

When i did my Coffee Stout, i used 4 double shots of espresso since at the
time my roommate had an espresso machine.  the amount that i used actually
turned out perfect, iwth just a hint of flavor after the other flavors had
fades, exactly the effect i was looking for.  Part of teh problem i would
guess of using  coffee grounds is teh inability to control the streangth
of the coffee generated in teh boil.  i would think that brewing up a pot
of coffee and adding to the primary would give you more control over teh
final flavor.  Also the thought occurs to me that adding coffe to the
secondary TO TASTE would be an effective way of getting the correct flavor
you had in mind.

anyone else care to comment?
 Here is my Coffee stout recipe...

Black Dragon - Coffee Stout 
- -----------------------------
6 lb	Dark Malt Extract
1/4 lb	Roasted Barley - British
1/4 lb	Chocolate Malt -British
1 lb	Honey
1/2 lb	Brown Sugar
1/2 oz	Northern Brewer Hops (7.1%)60 min boil
1/2 oz	Northern Brewer Hops (7.1%)30 min boil
1/2 oz	Fuggle Hops 2 min boil
1 pack	Australian Ale Yeast
4 	Double-Shots Black Cat Blend Espresso
3/4 cup Corn SugarPriming

Directions: 
Combine Malt, Grains, Honey, Brown Sugar, and bring to a boil.

As soon as the Boil starts, add in first hops. At 30 mins add second hops.
Add Aromatics at 2 min. to end of boil. Cool the wort by adding filtered
water to bring the tempeture down quickly.

Add Cooled Wort, 4 shots of espresso to Carboy, and pitch the prepared
yeast. Attach the blow off tube, and let it sit for 5-7 days.

After 7 days siphon off the beer, mix in the corn sugar, and bottle.

Notes: Black Cat blend is a dark roasted, slightly bitter coffee.
The beer is a very nice stout, not too bitter, and a subtle hint of coffee
taste. Well recieved all around. 
 
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Brander Roullett (SCA Frederic Badger)   badger at nwlink.com
Red Tree Pursuivant, Madrone, An Tir     www.nwlink.com/~badger/
Head Brewer, the Inn at Amberhaven       Software Tester, Microsoft		
- -----------------------------------------------------------------

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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 11:14:43 -0800
From: Philip Hofstrand <philiph at u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re:Homebrew Digest V2 #10

In HBD V2 #10, John Palmer, after allaying our fears about
thermal expansion wrote:

>I theorize that either:
>a. you had a lot of trub still in suspension that really upped
>your gravity reading.
[etc.]

I used to be confused about this too, so I feel compelled to jump in here.
Particles in suspension will not affect the density of the suspending
liquid, and thus will have no effect on specific gravity. This applies to
trub and pelleted hop particles. If you let these particles settle out,
your SG reading will be the same as if you did not. I'm not sure, however,
about the effect of dissolved CO2 on gravity readings. Does beer saturated
with CO2 (assuming no bubbles on the hydrometer) give the same reading as
flat beer? Anyone?

Until next time,
Phil

- --
Philip Hofstrand <philiph at u.washington.edu>, Seattle, WA

        In taberna quando sumus, non curamus quid sit humus
    When we are in the tavern, we spare no thought for the grave
                                        --Carl Orff, "Carmina Burana"

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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 13:19:03 -0600
From: Algis R Korzonas <korzonas at lucent.com>
Subject: Bottling in Chimay bottles/Rollermills/skimming

SM writes:
>Al K (TM), mentioned that he was bottling an
>abbey beer in old Chimay bottles, and then corking them.  This sounds
>great to me, and I've been looking into doing that myself.  Are you
>using regular corks, or do you use the plastic ones?

Real corks.  9 x 1 3/4" first quality.  I adjust the corker so that
it doesn't push the cork all the way in (leaves about 1/2" out).
Then I put on a used Chimay, Saison Dupont or Champagne capsule (I think
that's what they call it... it goes between the cork and the wire...
I couldn't find them new, so I'd been saving used ones for a few years)
and then twisted-on a new wire basket (available at hb/winemaking shops).

>My homebrew shop
>only carries the plastic mushroom style corks, so I may have to
>mail-order the wooden ones.  Al also mentioned soaking the corks to
>soften them up before bottling.  Any worries about infection?

I worried a little, so I used boiling water for soaking the corks.
I'm pretty sure this killed external stuff, but who knows what may
have bored into the cork when the tree was alive?

>Also,
>will any champagne bottle do?  I can get as many of these from the
>local recycling center that I want, but if memory serves (and it
>usually doesn't), these only come in green glass.

Cordon Negro from Frexinet (sp?) comes in what appears to be black
glass.  Call wedding halls and ask them if they could save empty
bottles for you to pick-up.  Be polite... take them all and return
the ones you can't use to the recycling center.  Incidentally, most
American sparkling wines will take a standard 1" US bottlecap, but
most European ones take the 29mm caps we can't seem to get here in
the states.  In Chicago, there's a place called "Pops for Champagne"
which is a Champagne/Sparkling wine bar.  Lots of bottles in their
garbage -- that's where I got most of mine.

>Does Chimay itself come in brown glass?

Yes. Many, many Belgian and French beers, such as Duvel, Affligem, and
Castellain (sp?), come in those brown 750ml bottles that MUST take a
cork (no ridge for bottlecaps at all!).  You can probably get some of
these from specialty beer bars.  In Chicago, I would try the two
Weinkellers, Palmer Place in LaGrange and the Map Room in Chicago (there
are many more).

***
Bill Giffin posts:
>I still prefer the Corona mill over the roller mills that are available.

Mike seconds Bill's suggestion in V2#10.

I must point out that while Bill and Mike are entitled to their opinion,
this position is still in the minority, based on the  views of dozens of
brewers with which I've had conversations about grain mills and on probably
50 posts to HBD over the years.  I personally, have used the Corona, PhilMill
and both the adjustable and non-adjustable MaltMills and feel that the
rollermills are far, far superior to the Corona.  I prefer the adjustable
MaltMill over the PhilMill primarily because of throughput, less cranking,
and much less airborne dust.  I own the adjustable because the non-adjustable
required two passes on *SOME* 6-row malts and more than two passes for rye
malt (which has very, very tiny corns).

***
Ron writes:
>If I skim of the foam on a IPA will my beer be less bitter?

Yes... by about 14 to 17%.  Skimming the kraeusen is pretty much equivalent
to the blowoff method.  See my article in the May/June `96 Brewing
Techniques for all the details.


Al.

Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korzonas at lucent.com
korz at pubs.ih.lucent.com
korz at xnet.com

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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 14:49:40 +0500 (EST)
From: macher at telerama.lm.com
Subject: Suspended particles and liquid density....

On Wed, 18 Dec 1996, Philip Hofstrand wrote:

> I used to be confused about this too, so I feel compelled to jump in here.

> Particles in suspension will not affect the density of the suspending
> liquid, and thus will have no effect on specific gravity...

Yes, the liquid itself does not change, so it is independent of the 
particles in it, just like water is when you through a stone in it.
 
But, since the hydrometer sees the mixture of suspended particles 
and liquid,  it looks to me like there will be an effect on a reading taken 
with a hydrometer. The density of the mixture must be different than the 
density of the liquid alone, I would think.

>From a practical standpoint, it may be that the percent of suspended 
particles is so small that there is no real consequence, but in theory 
there certainly must be.

Am I missing something here? I am a relitively new home brewer, with only 
six batches experience, so I have a lot to learn.

Bill

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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 14:48:34 +0000
From: sunwyn at erinet.com
Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest V2 #10

ok....look.....take me off of this damned list or i'll start sending 
email bombs!!!!!!!!!!! GOT IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


   sunwyn at erinet.com
****Three Things From Which Never To Be Moved: One's Oaths, One's Gods, & The Truth****

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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 13:58:42 -0600 (CST)
From: tfwmsi at mcs.com (Tim Wauters)
Subject: Re: Belgian Abbey beers

In HBD V2#9, Richard Gardner relates his experience with Wyeast #1388

>     I made a strong ale (allgrain) about a month ago using Wyeast 1388,
>"Belgian Stong Ale."  Does anyone have any eperience with this yeast?  OG
>1.072, tonight SG 1.016, but still very cloudy. I'm wondering how long
>untill it starts clearing.  Also, any ideas on the pedigree of this yeast?
>Ferment temp 60-65F (basement). This yeast is rather new on the market and I
>haven't seen much on it (yes, I know I should do more yeast ranching
>myself).

I've had a similar occurence on both ales I made with this yeast.  One a
1.092 strong ale using a lot of honey, the other, a Belgian gold ale ( ala
Goose Island Demolition ale.)  1388 is indeed slow to clear based on my
experience.  After waiting over three weeks for the secondary to clear, I
too had a FG in the 1.015-18 range (I don't have my recipe in front of me
at work)  I decided to go ahead, prime and bottle anyway, and within a
week, all bottles had dropped bright and the result was a very delicious
and strong Belgian ale.  It's been claimed here on HBD and elsewhere that
this is the Duvel fermentation yeast.  I don't know for sure, but it does
make a nice fruity Belgian ale.  I've also had great results using the
Belgian Abbey II yeast (forgot the #) in abbey style ales.  This yeast
ferments and clears very fast and I would reccomend it instead of #1388 for
abbey style ales if final clarity is a concern.  I'm considering combining
both of the above strains to see what sort of ale emerges.  Until then,
everybody get out and have alot of your favorite winter brews.

                                                                           
                        Tim Wauters
                                                                           
                         Chicago

  

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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 15:23:26 -0800
From: RUSt1d? <rust1d at li.com>
Subject: Force Carbonate

I have a question. If I leave a keg in my fridge  at  45F, pressurized
 at  15 lbs (to hit 2.5 volumes) for an extended period of time, will 
it over carbonate? or will it reach max out  at  2.5 volumes?

I don't drink much during the week and am wondering if I can keep
my system set at 15 lbs when not in use to maintain the proper
carbonation in already carbonated kegs and to force carbonation
into kegs that need it. Thanks...

DO RE MI DRINK, by Homer J. Simpson.
     DO...... the stuff... that buys me beer... 
     RAY..... the guy that sells me beer... 
     ME...... the guy... who drinks the beer, 
     FAR..... a long long long way to get beer...
     SO...... I'll have another beer...
     LA...... I'll have another beer...
     TEA..... no thanks, I'm drinking beer... That will bring us back
to...
*picture of Homer looking into an emtpy beer glass*
     D'OH!!!

- -- 
John Varady           http://www.netaxs.com/~vectorsys/varady/index.html
Boneyard Brewing Co.           "The HomeBrew Recipe Calculating Program"
"Ale today, Gone tomorrow."

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Date: 18 Dec 1996 12:34:37 -0800
From: Dion Hollenbeck <hollen at axel.vigra.com>
Subject: Re: Fermenting in 5-gal kegs

>> Gary Eckhardt writes:

GE> I've been thinking of starting the policy of doing my secondary
GE> fermentations in 5-gal kegs, but I had a few questions about how
GE> to modify them for fermentation use.

I have fermented both primary and secondary for over 3 years and over
30 batches in cornies.  You can get much good info from my web page,
just follow the link to the gadgets section.  But you bring up points
not addressed there, so I will answere that now.

GE> 1) I understand that when used as a primary, I should have a blowoff
GE>    tube.  Is this really necessary for a secondary?  

No, you should not rack to secondary until krauesen has fallen.

GE> 2) What's the suggested way of attaching an airlock onto one of the
GE>    valves?

With a piece of the same hose you use for a Ablowoff tube, but 1" long
into which you put a one hole rubber stopper and the airlock.

GE> 3) Do I have to modify my "liquid out" diptube, i.e. cutting it off
GE>    shorter?  Should I leave this tube in while fermenting, or
GE>    leave it out until I'm ready to rack off the beer?  

Put the cut off diptube in while fermenting.  Once you sanitize and
close up a keg, never opening it helps in keeping nasties out.

GE> 4) I've read conflicting opinions on the effect of the physical
GE>    size of the fermenter (i.e. tall and skinny) and the ability
GE>    for yeast to flocculate, etc.  Anything I should be worried
GE>    about?

It will cause slightly higher final gravities, but unless you are
doing a high gravity beer, it should not be more than a point or two,
not much worth worrying about.  If you do high gravity brews it is
critical to use large healthy yeast starters and oxygenate the wort
well. 

dion

- -- 
Dion Hollenbeck (619)597-7080x164                 Email: hollen at vigra.com
                                             http://www.vigra.com/~hollen
Sr. Software Engineer - Vigra Div. of Visicom Labs  San Diego, California

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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 96 14:48:00 PST
From: "Toler, Duffy L." <TOLERD at cdnet.cod.edu>
Subject: Secondary in Kegs

Gary Eckhardt  askes in V2 #10 about using cornys for secondary fermenation. 
 I have used my cornys for secondary and can't say if they perform better or 
worse in the final product, but they are much easier to clean.

Two thoughts on attaching airlocks:
1.  Take the gas in poppet off, stick a short (1") piece of tube over the 
threaded knob, stick an airlock into the tube.

2.  Don't worry about an airlock.  I usually have to get about 5 PSI in my 
cornys before they quit leaking around the big O-ring anyway.   This should 
allow the CO2 to bleed off.  (Wouldn't recommend this for the primary tho!

Just my  $.02.

Happy Brewing!
Duffy

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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 15:11:13 -0600
From: Dane Mosher <dmosher at xroadstx.com>
Subject: plastic kettles

Daryl Kalenchuk asked about using plastic containers as a kettle.  I am
using a good quality 6.5 US gallon HDPE bucket for my 'kettle', and it
works very well.  

I purchased a Bruheat, which is just an immersion heater and thermostat
fitted into an HDPE bucket.  Unfortunately, the spigot that was also
installed into the Bruheat bucket started leaking, so I drilled a 1.5
inch hole into another bucket of mine and transferred the immersion
heater.  I've done two batches in the new bucket with good results.  The
immersion heater gives a great rolling boil that I never achieved on my
electric stove.  And there is no plastic taste either.  I don't know
whether the leak in the Bruheat's plastic spigot was due to the heat
exposure, but I've never had a leak around the heating element, which is
where I would think the heat would do its worst damage.

I think I read in an old HBD issue that HDPE is rated for 250_F
continuous use.  Ken Schwartz has written about a plastic brewery in the
HBD, and he has a web page chock full of info on it at 
http://users.aol.com/kennyeddy/plasticbrew/electric.html

Dane Mosher
Big Spring, TX

*** Hoppiness is a warm IPA. ***

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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 15:19:02 -0600
From: rob moline <brewer at kansas.net>
Subject: Jethro on FWH'ing/Dryhopping

>From: Joe Shimkus <shimkus at sw.stratus.com>
>Subject: Re: FWH and IBUs

>While it would be interesting to know the degree to which the 'bitterness' of
>bittering hops is affected through the use of FWH (and if anybody has
>quantitative info about that rather than my qualitative data I'd love to hear
>about it), on a practical level it would appear that FWH should be done w/ the
>flavor/aroma hops and that the bittering hops should be used as usual to
hit the
>target IBUs.

        While I can offer no data on the IBU contribution, ( I don't even
consider it), I routinely lauter on to one pound of EKG for my Pale Ale (7
bbl), prior to my usual bittering and aroma regime, with good results. While
George Fix's original suggestion was FWH'ing for lighter brews, I just tried
this for grins, was pleased with the result and have continued. While it has
been suggested that any aromatic contribution is later done in by 6 pounds
of EKG dryhopping in secondary, to my palate there is a slightly "rounder"
(scientific term ;-) ) note to the aroma.   

>From: Bob Bessette/PicTel <Bob_Bessette at smtpnotes.pictel.com>
>Subject: Thanks for all of the infection responses...

>> Do not dry-hop with fresh hops, always boil the hops to sanitize first.
>(I boil my hops first)

        Wishing you luck in your problems with infections, I think that if
you boil your hops prior to dry-hopping, you will boil off the aromatic oils
and defeat the intent of the dry-hop procedure. As with my above noted use
of up to 6 pounds of pellets (tied up in nylon panty-hose, and suspended in
the middle of the grundy tank) in my IPA, and with lesser amounts in lesser
beers, I would suggest that your dryhopping is not the source of your
infections. By the time you dryhop (in secondary), your pH should be in the
3.9-4.1 range, ETOH should be present in sufficient quantities and the
bacteriostatic action found in hops should all be working in your favor to
limit any infections that might arise from dryhopping. But boiling off the
aromatic oils seems counterproductive.
        Just a thought.
Jethro Gump

Cheers!
Rob Moline 
Little Apple Brewing Company
Manhattan, Kansas
"The more I know about beer, the more I realize I need to know more about Beer!"

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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 16:46:00 -0500 (EST)
From: "Gerald J. Ginty" <ginty at salve5.salve.edu>
Subject: Re: "and Proud of It" (fwd)

May I send my appologies to everyone on this list. It seems that one 
person did not like my signature file. He sent me a note complaining 
about it and I guess he did not like my reply.

The whole idea of lists is to share information and ideas NOT to grip 
about someone's signature file. Yes I am originally from the UK and I 
proud to say so. 

I will probably receive some unfavorable replies. This fellow should 
stick to topic and not indulge in private flaming/hate wars 

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: 18 Dec 96 15:16:46 EST
From: Gregg A. Howard <102012.3350 at CompuServe.COM>
To: "\"Gerald J. Ginty\"" <ginty at salve5.salve.edu>
Subject: Re: "and Proud of It"

Dear me!  We are a bit cranky today, aren't we?  What's the bothering you?  Did
another of your favorite princesses get caught turning tricks in a truckstop
parking lot?  Was "Great" Britain's industrial production outpaced by Togo
again?  Is English cooking still unfit for hogs? Please believe me, I wasn't
complaining about your expression of pride for your drab little Third World
back-water, I was trying to tell you that 20 lines of self-congratulatory sludge
is a waste of space on the list.  I should have known that if you hadn't brains
to figure that out for yourself, there was no point in telling you.

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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 17:16:06 -0500
From: orion at mdc.net
Subject: Breakfast beer stuff

Paul in Deposit (or is it No Deposit, No Return), NY wrote, and I am quoting:
>Subject: Ovaltine in homebrew
>
>Hi all
>
>I just picked up a jar of _Ovaltine_ at the store and was wondering if anyone
>had previous experience using this product in homebrew.

Hmmmmm.. My son has been liking a breakfast cereal called Grape Nuts, and
the primary ingredient is Malt Grain.
It smells good, and I was also wondering if I could throw some in as an
adjunct. Wouldn't want to screw up things like head retention, and the like.
Then again, it would be a good excuse to start having "breakfast".....

Ideas?
            Orville Deutchman

      Brewer of Down Under Ale!
     Hobby Brewing at its Finest!
I'm relaxing, and having a homebrew!
            orion at mdc.net

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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 17:28:25 -0500
From: orion at mdc.net
Subject: Counter Pressure Bottle Filling

Mr. Gladden posted, and I reply:
>Posting for an internet challenged brewer and myself, we need
>help locating information on the pros and cons of various CP
>bottle fillers.  With the mechanical aptitude of Curly and Moe we
>need to buy one already assembled.  As usual, cost is a key
>factor, as is ease of use - cleaning, and overall performance. 
>Any information on net sites, archives, articles in magazines
>(i.e. "CP Fillers road tested" kinda of stuff), satisfied or ...
>ticked off, can't believe I wasted my money on this one,
>experiences would be appreciated.  I don't know how much of a
>variable bottle size capacity is, but we would like one that can
>handle anything from 7 oz. ponies to Champagne bottles.  Thanks
>in advance. 

Glad to report in. I have found that it is just as simple to use the el
cheapo versioon, which consists of a party tap, and a piece of tubing from a
racking cane. I slip the tube through a drilled rubber stopper the right
size for a bottle. The racking cane tube fits tightly inside of the party
tap opening (no leaks!).
        Here is the technique that I use:
Push the stopper into the bottle (cold bottles work much better than do room
temp), and slide the tube so that it extends all the way down into the
bottom of the bottle. Press the lever on the party tap, and hold open
through the entire filling operation. The beer will start to fill the
bottle, and then the internal pressure (with no where to go) will stop the
filling. That's OK for right now, because it is also causing the foaming to
settle down. This is a key to the process. When the foaming settles down to
your liking (15 seconds or so), slowly wiggle the stopper a bit loose,
allowing *SOME* of the CO2 to slowly escape. If you keep some pressure in
the bottle while finishing the filling, it will keep secondary foaming
virtually eliminated. When the bottle is filled, release the lever on the
party tap, and wait a few seconds for any final bubbles to settle down.
Remove the tube and stopper assembly from the bottle, and apply a cap ASAP.
I set up my bottles in a six pack or case, and place the tube quickly in the
next  bottle while capping. You don't lose any beer that way, and the mess
is minumized. 
        Within about six bottles, you will have the technique pretty well
down pat. You can drink the short fills, and give the rest away as holiday
presents. What's especially nice about this system is the low cost.
Including buying a new racking cane to get the stiff tube from, the cost is
about $5!!!!
        Enjoy!
            Orville Deutchman

      Brewer of Down Under Ale!
     Hobby Brewing at its Finest!
I'm relaxing, and having a homebrew!
            orion at mdc.net

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #2291