(formerly Volume 02 : Number 012)



Contents:
  two hole stoppers/decoction
  All Sazz IPA?
  Re: Question for Metallurgists
  Thanks - Coffee - Decoction
  Re: yeast banking question
  Current Listserver Status
  Plastic kettles
  OG and suspensions/CO2 volumes/pantyhose/bad form/breakfast cereals
  Homebrew Digest V2 #11
  tannins and no sparge
  Going Cold
  Ovaltine Beer.
  Re: Homebrew Digest V2 #11
  RE:  Wyeast 1388 Belgian Strong Ale
  Dry hopping & nasties
  Re: Homebrew Digest V2 #5
  Re: Ovaltine in Homebrew
  Re: Fermenting in 5-gal kegs
  skimming your wort when boiling
  [No Subject Provided By Sender]
  Re: No sparge Question
  wort aeration
  re: two hole stoppers
  Coffee Beer
  Specific Gravity of suspended particles...
  re: How much coffee
  Need Instructions to get #8 and #9
  Dextrin(tm) malt
  Re: Ovaltine & Ringwood
  Most Important "variable" in all-grain brewing.


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 16:53 -0600
From: BAYEROSPACE <M257876 at sl1001.mdc.com>
Subject: two hole stoppers/decoction

collective homebrew conscience:

first off, thanks to all for the recent submissions on two hole stoppers.

sharon and/or dan wrote:

>I'm attempting my first decoction mash after 30 all-grain batches
><snip> Here's my plan - any suggestions would be appreciated.

>(I'm using De Wolf-Cosyns pils malt for the primary portion of the mash
>(80%).  DWC Aromatic, CaraPils, and Munich make up the remainder.)

>Strike temp at 145F.  Rest for 20 minutes.  Test and adjust pH if
>necessary.  Pull 3/4 (or more?) of the thickest part of the mash.  Heat
>decoction to 155F.  Rest for 20 minutes.  Bring decoction to a boil for
>25-30 minutes.


here's a tip:  have some acidified brewing water ready at this point, and use
it to dilute your decoction to such a degree that scorching is not problematic.
make sure the pH stays down below 6.0, preferably around 5.5.  if  trying to
boil the thick decoction without diluting it, i've found it's easy to scorch.


>  Add decoction back to main mash and stabilize at 155F.

just a note of caution - be careful when you do this and monitor the temp.
closely, especially if you're taking 3/4 of the mash for the decoction. you
may overshoot your sacch. temp. otherwise.


>What do you think?  Will this procedure noticeably darken the final color
>of the beer?  I'm right at the upper edge of the color limit for this
>pilsener if I were doing an infusion mash.

i have noticed that my single decocted pilsners take on a gold color, very 
close to sam adams boston lager, when they're based on nothing but dwc pils
and briess carapils.  yours may come out a bit darker if you're adding some
of the higher kilned pale malts (aromatic, etc.) or the crystal malts. give
it a shot.  

brew hard,

mark bayer

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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 17:49:00 -0600
From: "Goodale, Daniel CPT 4ID DISCOM" <GoodaleD at HOOD-EMH3.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: All Sazz IPA?

Ladies, Gentlemen, and children of all ages,

	For some reason, I've been brewing IPAs with a
vengeance (it is my favorite style with octoberfest a close
second).  I remember a HBD post that described an all
sazz IPA.  This concept fascinated me at the time and I've
decided to give it a try now that the blistering Texas
summer is over.  Does anyone have that recipe or
should I match IBU's and drive on with my favorite
recipe?  TIA.

Daniel Goodale (good lagers too)

The Biohazard Brewing Company
Home of the "Brew in a Lung" (TM) zero gee brew kit.

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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 16:24:39 -0800
From: Kelly Jones <kejones at ptdcs2.intel.com>
Subject: Re: Question for Metallurgists

John Palmer wrote:
> The linear coefficient of thermal expansion of 304 stainless steel is 9.6
> microinches per inch per 'F.  Since I didnt know the exact dimensions of
> your pot other than it holds 50L, I took the cube root of 50 to give me a
> vessel of 36 cm on a side. This converts to 14.5 inches per side and when
> you multiply 9.6 x10^(-6) x 150F, you get a change in length of .0209
> inches, which when cubed results in a change in volume of less than a drop
> in the bucket.

John, you're a fine metallurgist, but not much of a geometrician! 8-)
Actually, the formula for volume change, given a length of l and a length
change of dl, is approximately dV = 3*l^2 *dl, or 3*14.5^2*.0209 = 13.2 in^3.
Much more than a few drops, but still not large enough to worry about in
doing mash efficiency calculations.

Kelly
Hillsboro, OR

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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 16:45:03 -0800
From: "Kevin R. Kane" <deviator at aracnet.com>
Subject: Thanks - Coffee - Decoction

I just made my first post to HBD last night, and was surprised by the
responses.  I'd like to thank everyone for all the help.

Two of the more interesting ideas which popped up on adding coffee to
beer.
- -Adding 1/4 pound and steeping 20 min after the boil.
- -Adding 1 cup of brewed coffee at bottling time.

I will most likeley try a combo of these two techniques.  Thanks again
for all the ideas.

- -----

On Decoction.  I have had really good Dopplebock results by boiling a
small (6 cup) portion of the mash for a little extra heat in a two stage
infusion process.  It seemed to help Malt flavor without going through
the rigors of a full decoction (wich is a real pain.) Best of all, it
didn't take any extra time from my normal mash.

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Date: Thu, 19 Dec 96 14:10:37 -0500
From: "Anton Verhulst" <verhulst at zk3.dec.com>
Subject: Re: yeast banking question

Jacques writes:

>Robert, you can reculture from your slants. From the old slant I inoculate
>about 30ml of STERILE wort. When the wort is fermenting ( after 48 hours )
>I dip one transfer loop in it and inoculate a fresh slant. When the yeast
>starts to grow on the new slant, store it in the fridge. I  reculture every
>4 months. It works for me: I bought some Irish Ale yeast 4 years ago and
>it's still going well. I never tried to transfer directly from an old slant
>to a fresh slant, maybe some brave soul does it?

Yes, I've been innoculating new slants directly from old for about 4 years.
I usually have about 12 to 15 slants on hand so I've got a pretty decent
track record.

Reculturing every 6 months works well for me with one exception: I've had
two cultures of Wyeast 1056 die on me.  That is, reculturing after 6 months
produced no growth on the new slant.  I now reculture 1056 every 4 months and
have had no problems since.

- - --Tony V



- ------- End of Forwarded Message

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Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 12:38:09 -0700 (MST)
From: Adrian Goins <monachus at softsolut.com>
Subject: Current Listserver Status

Recent developments in the administration of the listserver required that
we adjust the configuration of the server so that it doesn't run out of
space.  Apologies for the difficulties over the last 12 hours - the
problem has been mended so that it won't happen again.

Thank you.

For whomever it was who called my office at 10:40 yesterday evening:

Your demeanor was both unprofessional and unproductive.  You failed to
identify yourself or any means by which I could return your call.  In
addition to being excessively profane, you failed to even explain what the
problem was, nor did you ever page me, as you had claimed.

In the future, if any of you wish to contact me over any issue dealing
with the HBD, you are welcome to under the conditions that you are
professional, civil, and identify yourself.  I include the information
below so that you have the means to reach me, not so that you have the
means to leave undisciplined voicemail messages.

Adrian Goins
System Administrator - Internaut
100% Software Solutions, Inc.		
http://www.softsolut.com			303-689-0100 voice
http://uls.softsolut.com			303-891-4507 pager

**Please use the PGP key available from "finger admin at softsolut.com"**

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Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 13:46:34 -0600
From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald)
Subject: Plastic kettles

    Daryl K Kalenchuk asks about plastic kettles.

I have been using a 15 gal blue plastic (HDPE #2) container for the last
dozen or so batches with very satisfactory results. The plastic seems to be
very able to contain and handle the boiling wort.

The particular container that I am using is one that was from the homebrew
store, it was originally used to hold liquid malt extract.  These should be
easy to obtain from your homebrew source.  Just let them know you want one.
I paid $7 for mine.  I figured since it was used to hold malt extract then
it should be food safe.  The first time I tried it I just boiled water for
an hour then tasted it to see if any off flavors could be detected, and I
was quite pleased to find very clean tasting water with no detectable off
flavors.

I use an electric heater 4500 watt 220 volt element with a 'homebrew' power
controller to throttle the heat.  I can reach boiling in about 45 minutes
for 12 galons of liquid. This is so much more convenient than those noisy
rocket blasters with propane.  Just use a paddle type wood bit to make the
hole in the side of the bucket for the heater element and another one for a
ball valve.

The Brewery web site has plenty of information on plastic boilers, (and lots
of other stuff too).

Ron

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Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 13:48:08 -0600
From: Algis R Korzonas <korzonas at lucent.com>
Subject: OG and suspensions/CO2 volumes/pantyhose/bad form/breakfast cereals

Phil writes:
>Particles in suspension will not affect the density of the suspending
>liquid, and thus will have no effect on specific gravity. This applies to
>trub and pelleted hop particles. If you let these particles settle out,
>your SG reading will be the same as if you did not.

I used to think this too (i.e. pebbles in the river don't affect the
water's SG), but in my experience, there *is* a significant effect.
Try this: next time you brew, save 16 oz of trub-laden wort from the
bottom of the kettle.  Measure the SG when it's murky.  Let it
settle and measure it again.  I did this and there was a pretty big
difference.  I don't know which bit of science proves this is true,
but in practice, it is.

***
John writes:
>I have a question. If I leave a keg in my fridge  at  45F, pressurized
> at  15 lbs (to hit 2.5 volumes) for an extended period of time, will 
>it over carbonate? or will it reach max out  at  2.5 volumes?

The tables say that 15psi  at  45F will result in 2.51 volumes of CO2 in
the beer, so that's where it will stop.  I've had some beers on CO2 for
3 months without overcarbonating.

***
Jethro writes:

>of up to 6 pounds of pellets (tied up in nylon panty-hose, and suspended in

Didn't someone post a year ago or so, that the dyes in pantyhose can come
out of them?  Personally, I use to use fine nylon mesh bags (L.D.Carlson
is the wholesaler) for hops in the kettle.  They are white nylon mesh and are
(I believe) made for fruit straining or something like that.  They have
worked well for me on over 200 batches.  Recently I've changed my kettle
design and now use whole hops loose in the boil, but I've had only good
experiences with those white nylon mesh bags.  As for dryhopping, I never
have used a hop bag -- I just use whole hops and toss them into the primary
(yes, primary) and put a screen on the end of my racking cane when racking
to the priming carboy or Corny keg.

***
Incidentally, I like English cooking but posting long signatures and
(especially) private email are both very bad form.  Shame.

***
Orville writes:
>Hmmmmm.. My son has been liking a breakfast cereal called Grape Nuts, and
>the primary ingredient is Malt Grain.

I've got some experience with breakfast cereal beer, so I'll give you
my four suggestions:

1. watch for oils,
2. watch for excessive salt,
3. watch for preservatives, and
4. torrified (puffed) and flaked grains are pre-gelatinised, but whole
   grains will need to be gelatinised (see below).

Thanks to Rob Lauriston in HBD 2096:

          gelatinization temperatures

maize (corn)  70-75C	158-167F
sorghum       70-75C	158-167F
rice          68-75C	154-167F
wheat         52-54C	125-129F
barley        61-62C	141-143F
potato        56-69C	132-156F

I faintly recall that Grape Nuts were pretty high in sodium.

Al.

Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korzonas at lucent.com
korz at pubs.ih.lucent.com
korz at xnet.com

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Date: Thu, 19 Dec 96 11:51:01 PST
From: "Pete W. Hembrow Profs PWH Phone 893-84" <FM00HEMB at UCSBVM.UCSB.EDU>
Subject: Homebrew Digest V2 #11

*** Reply to note of 12/19/96 02:35
Take me off your list. I don't drink, and I never signed up for your service.
Forward this note to someone who can take care of this problem.

***************************************************************
* Pete Hembrow, Zone Operator Facilities Management, UCSB.    *
* E-Mail  FM00HEMB at UCSBVM.UCSB.EDU   Pager# 568-6097          *
***************************************************************

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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 19:56:48 -0800
From: smurman at best.com
Subject: tannins and no sparge

I had a couple of thoughts about sparging, no-sparging, tannin
extraction, etc.

I've always considered the sparging process similar to making a pot of
tea, in terms of the chemical processes involved anyway.  In preparing
tea, it's critical not to let the tea steep (sparge) too long,
otherwise you'll end up with a bitter cuppa.  The reason is that the
pleasant flavor compounds (including caffeine) are extracted early in
the steeping process, while the bitter flavor compounds begin being
extracted later in the process.  Sparging is very similar to the
steeping of tea, in that hot water is in continual contact with the
leaves/husks in order to "wash" chemicals from the grain.  The
arbitrary cut-off of sparging until you reach a SG of 1.010 may in
fact be a rule of thumb on how long you should sparge, i.e. really
more of a time limit.  After 90 minutes you're no longer retrieving
any flavor compounds, just bitter compounds which can quickly
overwhelm the others.

I could also see how this relates to the perceived malti-ness of
no-sparge brews.  The sparging process is extracting many flavor
compounds, some of which will balance the malt flavor of your wort.
If you don't sparge, these compounds will not be in your wort, and
even if you dilute with H20, you'll still have a maltier wort than you
would if you added the sparge flavor compounds.  Very similar to the
manner hop bitterness can balance with malt flavors to produce an
"even flavored" brew.

My $0.015 anyway.

SM

P.S. Jethro, I think you're making some of these acronyms up on
purpose just because you're laid up and bored.

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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 96 16:46:18 CST
From: THaby at swri.edu
Subject: Going Cold

Fellow Brewers,
 I'm going to be doing my first lager soon and was wondering when to put
the primary in the cold environment. I'll be using a liquid yeast from a 
starter. Do I let the yeast start working and then put the primary in the
fridge or do I pitch and put the primary in the fridge right a way? Thanks 
for any help. Tim.

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Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 01:05:11 -0500
From: Rick Olivo <ashpress at win.bright.net>
Subject: Ovaltine Beer.

Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 13:51:12 -0500
From: PVanslyke at aol.com
Subject: Ovaltine in homebrew

Hi all

I just picked up a jar of _Ovaltine_ at the store and was wondering if
anyone
had previous experience using this product in homebrew.

Paul >> brewin' and relaxin' in Deposit,NY

Paul:
It occurs to me that I may well be the only man on the face of the
planet that has brewing experience with this particular item. Let me
explain. I first started homebrewing in 1971. At that time Homebrewing
was illegal in the United States, which didn't trouble me much, as I was
a draft-resisting-leftist-leaning-semi-anarchist college student (ah,
those were the days!) I was also poor, as may be expected, and loved
beer. I saw homebrewing as a method of getting beer cheaply. At that
time, about the only place you could get beer-making materials of any
kind was from England, a process which took a minimum of three to four
months. This was depressing to someone as used to instant gratification
as I, so I took to "experimenting" and making brews, some fair, some
foul out of what was available. According to my surviving notes. (Much
of that period was lost in a housefire in 1983) I was in the Navy in
about 1974 or 75 (How I went from being an SDS member to Navyman is a
story that is too long for this venue). During one boring weekend, I was
discussing homebrewing with a fellow gob, Ken Venable. He was all
excited at the prospect of a project that might one day result in
intoxication from a product we made ourselves. Well, We hopped in the
car and proceeded to look for malt syrup. No luck. Malt syrup (Blue
Ribbon) was a popular tonic in Mississippi where I was stationed, and we
couldn't find it in stock anywhere. In desperation, we turned to
unflavored Ovaltine, and in a mad dash bought about 12 pounds of the
stuff, just about every jar from every store within a 20 mile radius of
Meridian Mississippi. We chose unflavored (do they even make unflavored
any more?) because we were hoping it would be more "beer-like" than
Chocolate. I dunno, maybe we could have made a heck of a chocolate
porter... At any rate, we took it home poured the whole lot into a three
gallon stockpot, boiled the dickens out of it, added about a ton of cane
sugar into it, some plain karo syrup, two pounds of brown sugar, and
some hops extract from some brew-supply store in Kent, England, and
using a few packages of baker's yeast, poured the whole mess into a new
plastic garbage can which we covered with a sheet of plastic and set
under the moble home to ferment. Amazingly enough, it did ferment and
dispite everything we could do to it, didn't get infected. After a
couple of weeks, we remembered it and bottled it with a teaspoon of cane
suger in each bottle (Quit shuddering, this was 1975, we didn't know any
better. Charlie Papiazan was a college student at the time.) After a
week of "conditioning" we tried a bottle. It was... different. It was
dark, about like a bock, and suprisingly clear as I recall, given the
baker's yeast, and other assorted crap. It wasn't exactly beer. I don't
think beer comes with a distinct taste of vanilla (the karo syrup?) but
it sure was alcoholic, and that's all that really mattered. We
eventually found a good source of blue ribbon syrup, and the experiment
was not repeated. As I recall, we eventually made some pretty fair
beers. I do know we eventually drank all of that ovaltine, but it wasn't
easy. I don't think the Great American Brew Fest is going to make a
category for this brew anytime soon. Don't know if this helps you, but
it was fun to recall. 

Strange Brewer (aka Rick Olivo)
ashpress at win.bright.net
VITAE SINE CERVESAE MAMULATAS!!!
(Life without beer sucks!!!) (With apologies to Cicero)

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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 23:12:43 -0500 (EST)
From: wer1 at cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest V2 #11

Happy holidays all.
Quick question - I just tried the Italian beer Moretti for the fist time 
and I thought it was delicous.  Anyone know a recipe or even what type of 
hops they are using.  I'd like to make a similar brew.
Thanx.
Bill Richheimer

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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 22:07:06 -0600 (CST)
From: Richard Gardner <rgardner at monarch.papillion.ne.us>
Subject: RE:  Wyeast 1388 Belgian Strong Ale

     Thanks to all who provided me inputs on Wyeast 1388, Belgian Strong
Ale, and its habits.  Those who used it agreed that it takes a long time to
settle out, and gelatin did not help.  The best guess for this Yeast that it
is Duvel.  However, the MJ book on Belgian beers says that Duvel uses TWO
different yeast strains in a usual unique Belgian manner:  the wort is
separated into two batches of unequal size and fermented with the yeasts
separately, being filtered and mixed at the end of fermentation.  No one
mentioned if both yeasts are in 1388 or not.  In any case, primary
fermentation occurs for 5-6 days (16-28C/60-82F) - what a large temperature
range, then shifted to secondary (cold maturation vessels) and the temp
lowered over 3 days to freezing for 3-4 weeks, then taken to -3C (26) to
precipitate the yeast.  After filtering and mixing, one of the yeasts is
added back in along with some priming dextrose.  There is actually quite a
bit more to the process,  I am just relating the items affecting the yeast.
Wow, an ale that has to be lagered?  This yeast is obviously requires some
unusual temperature steps.
     I don't have the capability to conduct this temperature step method,
but I will put the carboy my lagering refrigerator and see what I get (I'm
afraid to put it in the garage since it is 0F/-18C outside right now).  I'll
probably eventually transfer to a corny keg to condition, and eventually
bottle.  Bottom line with this yeast is that it is NOT one of the easier to
use yeasts, but eventually produces an excellent, fruity beer.  On user
mentioned that he had bottled while still cloudy after 3 weeks in the
secondary, and within a week it had cleared.  I think I may use 1388 next in
a 1 gallon batch of a mead if I am going to have to wait and wait.  For my
next Belgian, I'll probably use 1762 Belgian Abbey II - supposedly Rochefort
- - which is reported to ferment and clear very fast.  I guess that by the
time a homebrewer feels up to doing Belgian styles, it is a whole new paradigm.
The secret to life is to die young, but to delay it as long as possible!!!

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Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 10:44:47 -0600
From: Louis Bonham <lkbonham at i-link.net>
Subject: Dry hopping & nasties

Recently, someone advised boiling hops before dry hopping to sanitize
them.
As Jethro pointed out, boiling defeats the whole purpose of dry hopping,
but
a recent article by Drs. Guinard & Lewis and their students (MBAA
Technical
Quarterly, Vol. 27, pp. 83-89) goes further, and explodes the myth that
dry 
hopping risks infection.  I'll quote the abstract of this article in
full:

"The microbial flora of Cascade, Chinook, and Williamette hops and of
fermentations dry-hopped after innoculation or after three days with 
Cascade of Chinook hops was characterized.  A few yeasts belonging to 
the genera Saccharomyces, Candida, and Cryptococcus were isolated from 
hops along with many bacteria, mostly enterics.  None of these micro-
organisms survived in dry-hopped fermentations after the second day
of fermentation.  This study suggests that dry-hopping does not
represent
a significant risk for contamination of beer."

Ergo, as long as you dry-hop after primary fermentation (i.e., after the
yeast 
has dropped the pH of the wort substantially and after the ethanol level
is 
3% or so), you probably needn't worry about dry-hopping causing a
significant 
level of nasties in your beer.

Louis K. Bonham    lkbonham at i-link.net

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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 23:41:53 -0800
From: Kevin Dunleavy <kevind at cabo.com>
Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest V2 #5

please stop sending this homebrew digest

Thank you

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Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 12:00:30 -0500
From: Brian Lynch <Btlynch at postoffice.worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Ovaltine in Homebrew

In HBD V.2, #8, PVanslyke at aol.com asked about using Ovaltine in Homebrew. I made 
an extract/ specialty grain Porter using 1 cup of Ovaltine. If I make it again, I
would increase it to 1 1/2 or 2 cups.

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Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 06:31:40 -0500 (EST)
From: AJN <neitzkea at frc.com>
Subject: Re: Fermenting in 5-gal kegs

On 18 Dec 1996, Dion Hollenbeck wrote:

> 
> GE> 2) What's the suggested way of attaching an airlock onto one of the
> GE>    valves?
> 
> With a piece of the same hose you use for a Ablowoff tube, but 1" long
> into which you put a one hole rubber stopper and the airlock.
> 

Wouldn't it be simpler to use a longer hose and bend it back on itself, 
and pour a little water into the tube?

This would look and act like the trap under a sink.  You could even bend 
the top of the hose down, so that nasties couldn't get in.

The hose would have to be long enough to prevent any suck-back from when the 
fermentation temperature drops, at the end of fermentation.

_________________________________________________________________________
Arnold J. Neitzke                         Internet Mail: neitzkea at frc.com
Brighton, Mi.

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Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 17:03:15 GMT
From: Neil Kirk <nek at sputnik.wsatkins.co.uk>
Subject: skimming your wort when boiling

Hi Guys

Ron Narvaez asked about the foam he gets when boiling.  I'd like to add to that:

I get a sort of creamy-grey scum/foam on my wort as I raise it from mashing/sparging temperature to boiling point.  I've been skimming most of it off, and when boiling is achieved it doesn't reappear. In fact it seems to disappear into the wort.  All this happens before I add the hops (unlike Ron, who seems to get it after hopping).

I have never seen mention of this in any books.

1. Am I doing the right thing by skimming it?
2. Does anyone know what is causing it?
3. Is my mashing technique at fault (I don't think so since I have occasionally extract brewed and get the same effect)? 
4. Could it be caused by the emersion element in the boiler?

Any thoughts?

Neil Kirk

PS  Can we have less of the personal attacks.  This sort of vitriol (V2.10) is not necessary and simply cheapens the HBD.

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Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 10:16:59 -0400
From: Kevin Brown <kbrown at uvi.edu>
Subject: [No Subject Provided By Sender]

Andre' Massive

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Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 10:43:02 -0500 (EST)
From: Alex Santic <alex at salley.com>
Subject: Re: No sparge Question

>I have been following the thread on Dr. Fix's no sparge technique, and the
>one issue that really confounds me is that it sounds as if the collected
>sparge *reduces* maltiness more than pure water added to top up the boil. 
>Does anyone else come away with this impression?  Where did you guys lose
>me?  Or is this what is really being said? 

Yup, that's really what's being said. Nobody has come up with a technical
explanation yet, the mystery being that flavor compounds could probably
not be extracted preferentially to sugar. The most plausible suggestion so
far has been that the sparge extracts compounds that neutralize or mask
some of the malt flavor. It's a reasonable speculation of you consider
what an important role *balance* plays in beer flavor. The proportion of
any particular flavor component affects the perception of other flavor
components (i.e., add bitterness and the beer tastes less sweet). 

>To successfully conduct a no sparge mash, does the mash need to be thinned
>out substantially to get close to the boil volume you are aiming for? 

No, you would typically collect half or less and then top up with water. 
As you've noticed, we've been discussing ways of planning this better. 
But you don't have to do any intricate calculations if you don't want. 
Just use about a third more grain and drain the grain bed at the end of 
the mash. You might not hit your OG dead center, but you'll be in the 
ballpark and you can always adjust your hopping rates or whatever once 
you see what you've got.

- --
Alex Santic - alex at salley.com
Silicon Alley Connections, LLC
527 Third Avenue #419 - NYC 10016 - 212-213-2666 - Fax 212-447-9107
http://www.salley.com

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Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 17:01:11 GMT
From: Neil Kirk <nek at sputnik.wsatkins.co.uk>
Subject: wort aeration

Hi fellow brewers

I've been receiving HBD for a few month now, and this is my first foray into contribution.  So I hope it works.

I am a grain brewer living in England mainly brewing ales and wheat beers, which I have been doing on and off for about 25 years.  This has been pretty much in isolation since none of my friends are interested in anything but the drinking stage of the process.  So it's good to have company.

The question is, why is everyone getting so hung up about wort aeration in connection with final gravities?

I used to aerate, but one day forgot.  The result was a beer with a freshness that I didn't know was missing. And that slightly off taste that I had been trying to persuade myself was really quite nice had gone. 

I've always thought that you aerate the wort to ensure that your yeast established itself quickly by allowing it to multiply and spread aerobically (ie in the presence of air (oxygen)).  This is done mainly  to ensure that no other nasties (eg wild yeasts etc) get there before your yeast has taken over. Later in fermentation, the yeast reverts to anaerobic behaviour and completes its task of converting sugar to alcohol without oxygen.  So I cannot see how the amount of oxygen in solution at the start of fermentation will significantly affect the level to which fermentation will proceed.

The only problem I can see if you don't aerate is that the yeast does not establish well at the start, and this is much more likely to cause other problems (eg off tastes and infection).

I do not aerate my wort except during run-off after the boil (ie whilst the wort is still hot).  When the wort is down to pitching temperature I (carefully) stir in my yeast starter culture (about 1:40, starter:wort) and we're away.  Fermentation is well established in 12 hours, and the beer (almost) invariably ferments down to the desired FG (sometimes faster than I would like).  In this way I am pretty certain that any airborne nasties don't get in my lovely wort and so I end up with a fresh, full flavoured beer that keeps well.

Someone please re-educate me!

Good brewing

Neil Kirk

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Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 06:15:51 +0700
From: "C.D. Pritchard" <cdp at mail.chattanooga.net>
Subject: re: two hole stoppers

There was a post pondering what the second hole in those orange carboy caps
are for.  I use such caps for racking.  The racking cane goes in the larger
hole and you blow into the second hole (or use a low pressure pump if you're
anal) to pressurize the carboy and start the siphon by forcing brew up and
out the racking cane.

It's sure nice to have the HBD back!



c.d. pritchard cdp at chattanooga.net 
My Web Page:   http://caladan.chattanooga.net/~cdp/index.html

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Date: 19 Dec 1996 09:26:11 -0500
From: John Penn <john_penn at spacemail.jhuapl.edu>
Subject: Coffee Beer

                       Subject:                               Time:10:11 AM
  OFFICE MEMO          Coffee Beer                            Date:12/19/96

   I put about 1/4# of coffee in my last beer, see previous HBDs V1 for
recipe, and I added it just after removing the pot from the boil.  Basically I
steeped the grains at the end since you do not want to boil coffee.  The aroma
was wonderful in the cooling pot but non-existent in the bottled beer.  Since
the beer was a chocolate stout, I'm not sure how much flavor the coffee
actually added.  When I made Papazian's Imperial Stout recipe it had a coffee
flavor but there was no coffee in it--just roasted grains.  So the advice to
put 1/4-1/2# is probably a good starting point. Realize that the flavor will
depend on what else you put in the recipe, particularly specialty grains. 
Experiment with your favorite porter or stout and pour a little actual coffee
in the glass before adding your beer.  Then scale up to your batch size, let
us know how it turns out.  
   John Penn

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Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 12:45:13 -0700
From: "Mike Latham"<Mike_Latham at majiq.com>
Subject: Specific Gravity of suspended particles...

Greetings all!  I should introduce myself first.  I'm a brewer in Seattle
(currently) and have been brewing for a couple of years.  I certainly do
not claim to be an expert, but I hope I  can make some worthwhile
contributions to the digest.  I've been a bit of a silent "shadow" since
you know what they say about opinions.  The specific gravity issue,
however, has caught my fancy and I'd like to put in my two cents worth.  I
am in no means trying to be condecending, so please don't think I'm trying
to be a "know-it-all", I just ask, if you're interested, to consider the
following:

By definition, anything added to the wort will increase its specific
gravity.  The definition of specific gravity being the weight of the
"system" divided by the weight of an equal volume (as the "system") of
water at 4 degrees C.  So, if you have a volume V1 of water, add a rock
with volume Vr, the total volume of the system is V1 + Vr.  Now, the
specific gravity is the weight of the sytem = Wh2o + Wrock divided by the
weight of (V1 + Vr) units of water (at 4 deg. C).  Since the rock most
likely weighs more than an equal volume of water, the specific gravity
increases.  The same idea applies to hop particles in suspension.

Now the question is, do we care?  No, probably not, since a) the hydrometer
is (probably) not accurate enough to detect particles in colloidial
suspension and b) the hops particles will (probably) eventually settle out.
Thus, I propose, that not including the hop particles (or rock or whatever)
in the specific gravity of the wort in the initial reading will balance out
since they will also not be considered in the final reading (i.e. the delta
will be the same).  Of course, the best way to determine is to experiment.
Take your hop suspended wort, measure the SG, then filter it and measure
again (same temp is a good idea).

Happy brewing (and experimenting)!

- --Mike L.

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Date: Thu, 19 Dec 96 13:22 PST
From: Charles Burns <cburns at egusd.k12.ca.us>
Subject: re: How much coffee

Kevin asks in HBD#10- how much coffee?

I have an espresso stout that I made with starbucks this year. I used 1/4 
pound of espresso decaf beans. Crushed them like malt in my mill. Put them 
in a grain bag and steeped them in the kettle after a 60 minute boil. 
Steeped for 15 minutes. Very tasty, might cut it down to 5 - 10 minutes next 
year.
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Burns, Director, Information Systems
Elk Grove Unified School District
cburns at egusd.k12.ca.us, http://www.egusd.k12.ca.us
916-686-7710 (voice), 916-686-4451 (fax)
http://www.el-dorado.ca.us/~cburns/

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Date: Thu, 19 Dec 96 13:30 PST
From: Charles Burns <cburns at egusd.k12.ca.us>
Subject: Need Instructions to get #8 and #9

My internet connection failed the other day. I didn't get hbd 8, 9. Can 
someone help with instructions on how to retrieve those two issues?

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Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 16:53:51 -0600
From: Algis R Korzonas <korzonas at lucent.com>
Subject: Dextrin(tm) malt

I know that in the past, certainly several times, I have posted that
Dextrin(tm) malt (sometimes called CaraPils) was just like other
crystal malts and that it didn't have to me mashed.  Well, this
post is my admission that I was wrong about that...

My experience with Briess Dextrin malt goes back about 7 or 8
years, back when I wasn't as critical of my results and a little
haze was the least of my problems.

Tuesday night, in response to a post by someone about two months
ago (I'm pretty busy, you see...), I steeped the equivalent of
1# of Briess Dextrin malt in a gallon of 170F water and checked
both the SG and clarity.  The SG was 1.015 and the clarity, was,
well... it wasn't.  The "wort" was very turbid.  Thinking that
perhaps it was suspended protein, I boiled it for an hour and force-
chilled to 60F.  Still quite hazy.  Granted, it would be a very
faint haze if it were only 1# in 5 gallons of wort, but still,
I feel that I should set the record straight and admit my mistake.

I've done similarly with DeWolf-Cosyns, Muntons and a couple other
malts labeled "CaraPils" or "CaraPilsner" and all of these
performed like crystal malts... they would not need mashing.
However, the Briess Dextrin malt is clearly a different animal
and really should be mashed with some base malt (like Pale Ale
or Pilsner or even Munich) to both get the expected 24 or so points
per pound per gallon and to saccharify the proteins and starches.

Sorry about that.

Al.

Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korzonas at lucent.com
korz at pubs.ih.lucent.com
korz at xnet.com

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Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 20:37:33 -0500
From: Glenn & Kristina Matthies <borst at localnet.com>
Subject: Re: Ovaltine & Ringwood

Ovaltine:
Paul of Deposit, NY fame has asked about using Ovaltine in a beer.  All I
can say is, Don't do it!  Although I have never had a beer made with
Ovaltine, I had one that was described as tasting like Ovaltine.  A new
brewer brought this "creation" to a homebrew tasting.  Bakers chocolate was
used in lieu of chocolate malt.  Cinnamon and raspberries were also added.
The whole mess was bottled before it was done fermenting.  The result was
Ovaltine grenades!  It was very thick, like a milkshake.  I drank the entire
ounce or so and that was plenty.  I would have no idea what to do with 5
gallons of this!  If you do attempt this, go easy on the Ovaltine.  Good luck.

I am looking for Yorkshire Ringwood yeast.  Several breweries in the US use
this yeast.  Is it available to the homebrewer and where would I find it?
Any and all info and comments appreciated. TIA
Glenn & Kristina Matthies
Lockport, NY
borst at localnet.com

Glenn's Buffalo Beer Page
http://www.localnet.com/~borst/index.html

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Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 21:51:18 -0500
From: BernardCh at aol.com
Subject: Most Important "variable" in all-grain brewing.

This question is somewhat all encompassing, but info from the experienced
all-grainers would be appreciated.

I made the move to all-grain (6 batches so far) in the fall of this year
after 6 or so extract batches, and must admit, the quality of the beers has
improved significantly.  While I sit here and ponder my brewing goals for
1997 I was wondering about the types of things I should focus on in 97 to
improve my beers even more.  So my question is:

What is the ONE most important variable that I should focus on or try to
control to move to that "next step" in brewing quality?  (i.e. What part of
the process control will give me the biggest "bang' for the buck).

The kinds of things I'm looking for are:  Is it mash temp? Sparge temp?
Sparge time? pH? etc.

I'm not really interested in getting that extra point or so of extraction
(although I expect that will come), but what will make better beer.

A few comments about my all grain setup.  Brew 5 gallon batches, grind in a
PhilMill (TM), I've mashed in both a 10 gallon Gott (TM) (infusion), and my
in a kettle on my burner, transfer my mash to a Phil's Lauter Tun (TM) setup,
sparge for 45-60 minutes indoors to minimize temperature drop, sparge water
170F.  Brew kettle has a SS false bottom (1/4 inch diameter holes on 5/16
inch centers).  Use leaf or plug hops (no pellets) and liquid yeast
exclusively with minimum 1 quart starters,  Primary and secondary ferment in
glass.

So, all-grainers. answer my challenge.  What should it be.  Post either here
in the digest or E-mail me.  I'll summarize any private e-maill comments for
the collective after the first of the year.

Chuck
BernardCh at aol.com
Music City Brewers
Nashville, TN - Music City USA

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #2292