(formerly Volume 02 : Number 043)



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Contents:
  [No Subject Provided By Sender]
  Wort chiller design and Mash/Lauter Tuns (Todd Goodman <tsg at netlink.com>)
  Lactose Priming
  SO4/O2
  cleaning dip tubes
  Marris Otter Malt
  Wyeast 1338 update (George De Piro)
  Re: Heineken
  Fermenter Liners (Eric Peters)
  Oxygen and Starters
  Hop tea
  Re: Wort chiller design
  Re: Homebrew Digest V2 #42
  Plastic
  Re: Aeration/kraeusening 
  CO2 capacity again
  Questions from a beginner
  RE: Reverse step infusion mash  (George De Piro)
  What dissolves beerstone?  (George De Piro)
  Carbonation computation
  mead & Bass ale bottles
  green bottles - why?
  More thoughts on carbonation computation
  War of the Worts results
  Wort Chillers and Taste
  SG after boil
  Calcium oxalate
  Forced carbonation (John Wilkinson)
  Re: Homebrew Digest V2 #42
  Large Fermentation Barrels 8-}
  Late Response- perhaps one more(


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Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 07:38:53 -0500
From: tsg at eng1.netlink.com
Subject: Wort chiller design and Mash/Lauter Tuns (Todd Goodman <tsg at netlink.com>)

Fred Klassen <fredk at ibm.net> wrote:
>I have had a few comments on my immersion chiller, so I thought I
>would pass this along.  I did not waist time building connectors for
>attachment to the ends of my 1/2" copper coil.  Rather, I insert  the
>copper directly into my in and out 1/2" garden hoses and use hose
>clamps to fasten.  The chiller took 15 minutes to make, and never leaks.
>
>Does anyone else do this?
>
>Fred Klassen
>Vancouver, BC

Sure, I do exactly the same thing and have never experienced a leak either.
I have 1/2" tubing as well.  It took me more like 1/2 hour to build (I didn't
have a tubing bender and had to be careful not to kink the tubing).

To take up the thread about mashing in your lauter tun (or vice versa) could
those of you with more experience (or textbook references) explain what the
negatives might be to this practice?  I could certainly understand why certain
lauter tun/mash tun designs might not work well for both, but are there
quality reasons why it would be undesirable?

Thanks,

Todd

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Date: Thu, 23 Jan 97 07:28:41 -0600
From: Raymond Louvier <r099g at waii.com>
Subject: Lactose Priming

I have a question I hope someone can help me out with. I have a great Dry 
stout in the secondary. I tasted it last night and it was beatifully dry. But, 
I would like to add a small amount of sweetness to it. Starting OG was 1.060 
and last night going to secondary it was at 1.020 after 3.5days in the 
primary. In about a week I am going to bottle and was thinking of using 
lactose to prime with and give it a little sweetness. Does any one have any 
idea how much lactose to use or even if it is a good idea. This is a 5 gallon 
batch. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks 
Ray Louvier 

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Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 13:50:43 -0500
From: "A. J. deLange" <ajdel at mindspring.com>
Subject: SO4/O2

Craig Agnor asked about adding gypsum to the priming solution to increase
the hops bitterness of a beer made with low sulfate water. Try it and see
but my feeling is that the necessary reactions take place in the boil and
that, therefore, adding sulfate after the fact will have little effect.

Alex Santic reported killing a yeast starter with too much oxygen. This is
contrary to my experience: I heavily oxygenate starters all the time and
have never had one die out. I have reported here before that I did an
experiment in which a starter (Wyeast London) was maitained at about 30
mg/L (equilibrium with pure O2 is about 40 mg/L) and monitored for 14
hours. The yeast kept consuming the O2 and reproducing (.13E6/ml at the
start of the experiment and 6.61E6 after 14 hours). What strain was it? Are
we sure something else wasn't wrong?


A. J. deLange
- - Numquam in dubio, saepe in errore.
Please Note New e-mail Address

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Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 08:16:28 -0600
From: Robert DeNeefe <rdeneefe at compassnet.com>
Subject: cleaning dip tubes

I got 3 corny kegs for Christmas and I'm just getting around to
cleaning them out and replacing the o-rings.  I was debating rather to
just scrub the insides or take them apart, but when I opened them up
and smelled them, I decided that it would be best to totally
disassemble and do a thorough job.  I soaked the connectors in hot
water and they have come very clean.  Tonight I'll work on the lids and
canisters.  One problem remains: How in the world do I clean the inside
of the dip tubes?  Do they make pipe cleaners that long?  The tubes
smell of soda, and I really don't want my next batch to be Barq's
Rootbeer Ale. 

 Robert

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Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 09:19:16 +0000
From: "Nathan L. Kanous II" <nkanous at tir.com>
Subject: Marris Otter Malt

To the collective:

I am curious with the recent postings about the Marris Otter malt.  Is 
there a difference between Marris Otter Pale Malt and Marris Otter Crisp 
Malt?  Could this have an impact upon the discordant reports?

Nathan

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Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 08:06:08 -0800
From: George De Piro <George_De_Piro at berlex.com>
Subject: Wyeast 1338 update (George De Piro)

     Hi all,
     
     Just a quick update for those of you who are following my escapades 
     with Wyeast 1338 (European ale).  The fermentation was going great for 
     the first few days at ~57F (13.9C), but then we got a severe cold snap 
     here in NY, and the temp dropped down to the high 40's (~8.8C).
     
     The yeast slowed to the point of being practically stopped  (SG = 
     1.030, only a 23 point drop).  Oops!
     
     Interestingly, the Kraeusen never fell, though.  I've warmed the 
     fermenters to 65F (18.3C) over a couple of days, and they seem active 
     again.
     
     On the positive side, the young beer didn't smell estery...
     --------------------------
     Oh, yes, Mark's comments about the usefulness of decoction mashing for 
     increasing wort fermentability were right on.  The increased control 
     that the brewer has over the amylases is one of the major reasons to 
     bother with decoction mashing.
     
     Have fun!
     
     George De Piro  (Nyack, NY)

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Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 09:58:49 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Heineken

In Homebrew Digest V2 #41 Alan Rodgers <alanr at greyware.com> asks:

>I can't remember ever getting that particular flavor out of
>brown-bottled beer. Why do they use green glass for beer bottles,
>anyway?

As I have heard it, after WWII, Heineken was gearing up to export beer
again, but because of shortages, they couldn't get brown bottles for
export, only green.  The brown had to be kept at home for reuse.  (Of
course, beer bottles had been made of brown glass for decades since it was
easily discovered empirically that it greatly reduced skunking.)  So
Americans, especially returning GIs, who were thirsty for European beer,
got the first post-war import, Heineken, in green glass.  After that, green
bottles acquired a cachet from association with a quality, premium import,
so other importers found that they did better marketing-wise with green.

As an example of how disgustingly far this has gone, when the Frankenmuth
Brewery (Michigan) opened about ten years ago, they bottled their
supposedly German style pilsner in green glass.  Lots of other breweries do
this as well, again showing that the bottle and its label seem more
important than what's inside it.  Of course, Frankenmuth skunked, but you'd
be amazed how many people associate that flavor/aroma with "import" taste.
I guess that's because skunked Heineken has more character than unskunked
Budmilloors.

- -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu

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Date: Thu, 23 Jan 97 10:12:20 EST
From: Eric Peters <epeters at rtp.semi.harris.com>
Subject: Fermenter Liners (Eric Peters)

From: Greg Moore - <gmoore at wacko.East.Sun.COM>
>A local "Brew-On-Premisses" business uses big plastic drums.  Since the
>batches are 13.5 gallons, I'd estimate that the drums have about 20 Gal
>capacity.  They used a plastic bag insert in the drum.   The plastic is
>clear, not white or black like a garbage bag.  I don't know if this was
>something they have custom made or what.  The plastic bag was brought
>out the hole in the top and a rubber stoppered airlock placed in the
>hole for fermentation.
>
>Since the wort never directly touched the plastic drum, there was no
>need to sterilize the drum itself.

U. S. Plastics sells a 55 gallon, FDA approved drum liner for ~$4.
(Catalog at home.)  Grainger sells the following USDA and FDA
approved polyethylene can liners.  Doesn't say high or low poly,
called "Super-Flex".  (Funny, that's what I like to call myself.)

Page 1779 of catalog 387:

Capacity    Size       Liners    Roll     Case     Stock
(Gallons)   W x L     Per Roll   Each  Rolls/Each   No.
   7       21.5x22"     100     $5.55   10/$5.19   3u753
 11-13     23.5x29"      50      4.02   10/3.73    3u754/5
  33        35x39"       25      4.47   10/3.92    3u758
  55        36x60"       20     11.88    0/9.42    3u764

I have NO experience with these products or fermentation in plastics.
Just passing along info.  If it saves a little time on brew day,
could be worth the expense.

Eric in Durham,  (A.K.A."Super-Flex")

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Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 10:10:00 -0500
From: "Little, Wayne" <LittleW at od31.nidr.nih.gov>
Subject: Oxygen and Starters

I know this is a well-worn topic, but is it really necessary to pump air or 
oxygen into wort prior to inoculating with yeast. Yeast are not obligate 
aerobes - they do ferment sugars.  It would seem like growth would be 
limited only by the availability of fermentables, the accumulation alcohol, 
and proper temperature.  I know it+s risky to make generalizations, but 
from a microbiological standpoint, it is the strict anaerobes that are the 
difficult organisms to grow.  In preparing culture media, one has to go to 
great pains to keep oxygen out of the system.  Unless you cool the liquid 
media down in an oxygen-free chamber, oxygen readily permeates the liquid. 
 I would imagine pouring cool wort into a fermentation vessel would 
introduce sufficient oxygen to grow yeast.  The ppm might not be optimal to 
produce the absolute most rapid beginning of fermentation, but is this 
really necessary?  Coupled with what sound like unduly large volumes of 
 starter, can this not lead to an overly rapid and explosive fermentation 
that might not produce the best tasting beer?    I realize the need of a 
reasonably rapid start to discourage possible contaminants, but how rapid 
does it have to be and how large the starter volume?  Again, from my old 
micro days (working with bacteria, not yeast), the general rule of thumb 
was to inoculate with a log phase culture that was about 1% of the total 
volume.  Any more would risk transferring too many dead cells and waste 
products.  For 5 gal of wort., a 1% starter would be about a half pint. I 
will admit I was used to working with liter volumes or less, so when 
upscaling the rules might change.

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Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 10:16:47 -0500
From: "Ed J. Basgall" <edb at chem.psu.edu>
Subject: Hop tea

Regarding the use of Hop Tea for post-frermentation bittering.

Our brewclub recently toured a microbrewery which does just that.
The proprietor recommended using one of the infusion-press type
coffee makers to brew the hop tea and separate out the liquid from the 
solid.  He steeps at just below boiling for a couple of hours in his 
commercial kettle-strainer.

cheers

Ed Basgall
SCUM
State College Underground Maltsters
State College, PA

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Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 10:26:12 -0500 (EST)
From: Larry M Matthews <lmatt at ipass.net>
Subject: Re: Wort chiller design

Good Morning,
   I've noticed lots of folks have/are trying to bend copper without a
tubing bender. Don't bother with going to the hardware store for a bender.
Simply find an item that you can use as a form and bend the roll of copper
tubing slowly around the form. I had a 10" tree in my back yard that I had
cut down at a height of 4' several years ago and I just wrapped the tubing
around the tree stump that was left. It worked great because the base of
the chiller was approx 10" in diameter and it decreased very slowly as I
wound it around the tree so that the top rung was about 8". This added
great stability to the chiller both in the keg while cooling as well as
storing it on a top shelf. Don't go cut down a tree but you could use a
corney keg (gives about a 13" coil), or even the leg of your SO, just don't
tell them until you're through what it is for. It's easy!


At 07:38 AM 1/23/97 -0500, tsg at eng1.netlink.com wrote:
>Todd Goodman wrote:

>I have 1/2" tubing as well.  It took me more like 1/2 hour to build (I didn't
>have a tubing bender and had to be careful not to kink the tubing).
>
>
>
>Todd
>


					Larry M Matthews
					Carboy/Trub Member
					Raleigh, NC 27606
					lmatt at ipass.net

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Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 09:26:39 -0600 (CST)
From: Craig Amundsen <amundsen at biosci.cbs.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest V2 #42

Hi -

Maribeth Raines wrote to Dave B:
>>"I read somewhere (don't remember where) that O2 also induces the maltose
>>transporter system.  This may in fact explain how a small amount of O2 may
>>have such a large outcome on fermentation.

Dave B writes:
> Oxygen has to be in some kind of catalyst role or be affecting or forming
> enzymes and not the oft repeated (even by me) role of building cell walls*.

<SNIP>

Just a nit, but catalysts aren't consumed by the reactions in which they
participate. Oxygen is most definitely consumed by the yeast. Whether the
oxygen induces gene expression by the yeast is a separate issue.

I've got three WAGs (Wild Ass Guesses (should this be added to the acronym
list?)):

1) If oxygen does indeed induce the maltose transporter system, then all 
   the yeast in the population max out their ability to take maltose into
   the cell and ferment it. This is a good thing, as any cell division that
   takes place after the oxygen is added will halve the number of transporters
   on the surface of the each cell.

   Also any protein made by an organism has a certain half-life. They get
   degraded and the component amino acids are used to make new proteins. So
   over time a cell, assuming no new synthesis of maltose transporters, will
   begin to lose the ability of move maltose into the cell. Chances are,
   though, that maltose itself is also an inducer of its transporter. But
   now we come back to the oxygen. If at the beginning of fermentation the
   yeast cells don't have many transporters, then how does the maltose get
   into the cell and then induce the production of its own transporter? Becuase
   oxygen induces it.

2) The cell wall component that is the end product of of the pathway oxygen
   is used up in is a limiting factor in cell division. A yeast cell must have
   a certain amount of this component in order to be able to divide. In an
   un-oxygenated batch, the cells don't get to divide at all because if they
   had enough of the cell wall component (CWC), they would have already done
   so. In an oxygenated batch, all the cells divide until they reach the
   end of their CWC supply. Actually, an individual yeast cell can only bud
   around 8 (I think that's the right number) times. Each division leaves a
   scar on the surface of the mother cell. When the cell surface is completely
   scar covered division ceases. 
   
   a) We've got a bunch of young yeast and fermentation is best done by young
      cells. OR
   b) We've got a bunch of old yeast that aren't going to divide but have a
      whole bunch of maltose transporters due to WAG #1 and fermentation is
      best done by old yeast with no cell division distractions.

   In either case oxygenation improves the picture of the yeast population
   with respect to the un-oxygenated yeast.

3) This is an extension of WAG #2a. Since an individual yeast cell can only
   divide a few times before it can no longer do so, we can talk about the
   age of each cell. This is different from bacteria or fission yeast since
   each daughter cell is identical and we can't tell which one was the 
   original cell. So, this geriatric yeast cell is floating around doing the
   best it can to ferment the wort. But since it isn't dividing it isn't 
   getting its DNA copied anymore and the genetic damage coming about due
   to its being around for a long time is beginning to accumulate. Eventually
   it takes some a ray hit that knocks out some fermentation specific gene.
   Since fermentation is the energy source for the cell, it dies and
   we get no more alcohol from this cell. Before then, the damage may be
   knocking out other pathways and allowing the accumulation of metabolic
   intermediates that lead to the "fruity" flavors people get in under
   oxygenated batches. So if there are no young yeast around to carry the
   burden for the old yeast, you get a suboptimal fermentation.

There, that's enough speculation for now.
- - Craig
- -- 
+-----------------------------+------------------------------------------------+
| Craig Amundsen              | DILBERT - Sometimes I wonder if it's ethical   |
| amundsen at biosci.cbs.umn.edu |           to do these genetic experiments. But |
|                             |           I rationalize it because it will     |
| 250 Biological Sciences     |           improve the quality of life.         |
| 1445 Gortner Avenue         | DOGBERT - What are you making?                 |
| Saint Paul, MN 55108        | DILBERT - Skunkopotamus.                    O- |
+-----------------------------+------------------------------------------------+

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Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 08:16:15 -0800
From: bmurrey at BellInd.com
Subject: Plastic

Hi there,

I'm not brand new to home brewing but I've been away from it for about
20 years. I'm teaching my sons about fermentation and all the science
that I can muster as it relates to the fermentation process. (They're 17
and 14)

At work we use these 6 gallon food safe plastic water jugs in our water
coolers. I don't see any reason why I couldn't use these as a Primary
Fermenter, but would it cause any harm if I used them for the Secondary
Fermenter as well?  These jugs are tinted light blue, will this have any
adverse  effect on my brew?

Also the lady at the HB supply store was telling me that Aussies have
been using 2 litre plastic bottles to bottle their brew. Has anyone
tried this and what kind of results did you have?

I'm going to get one of those mini-keg (1.3 gallon) systems soon so I
won't have to worry about bottles much.

Thanks

Brian Murrey
IS Coordinator
Computer Division - Bell Industries
(317)634-8202 X3150
bmurrey at bellind.com

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Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 10:46:18 -0500 (EST)
From: AJN <neitzkea at frc.com>
Subject: Re: Aeration/kraeusening 

On Thu, 23 Jan 1997, Gavin Scarman wrote:

> Oh, well can I get you to brew me a hefe-weizen then as I can't seem 
> to get the "clovey" characters I'm after? ;) (been using Yeast Labs
> w51, about to try weihenstephen from Wyeast).
> 

If my memory serves me right, that is the yeast I used in wheat beer.  It 
had a very nice "clovey" characters.  It did stay in the primary for 4 
weeks though.

Every one that tried one, like it, and always went back for more.

_________________________________________________________________________
Arnold J. Neitzke                         Internet Mail: neitzkea at frc.com

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Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 11:48:33 -0500
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu>
Subject: CO2 capacity again

Sheesh!  Some day I'll learn not to calculate "from the hip".

A more careful calculation reveals that both my previous calculations
were off by a factor of 2 (one high, one low).  

To reiterate:

CO2 weighs 44 g per mole.
A mole of CO2 at STP is about 22 liters.
Thus, CO2 weighs about 2g/liter (at STP).
Thus, 2 volumes of carbonation consumes 4g/liter of CO2.
Pushing a liter of beer out at 14PSIG takes another 2 liters-at-STP of
CO2 (4g).  
Thus, each liter of beer requires 8g of CO2 to carbonate and push.
A 5lb tank holds 2265 grams of CO2.
2265g / 8g/l = 283 liters of beer carbonated and pushed.
283l / 3.8gal/l = 74 gallons of beer or 14-15 5 gallon batches.

=S

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Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 10:52:07 -0600
From: David Burki <davidb at pdainc.com>
Subject: Questions from a beginner

Having only 2 batches under my belt, I need some advice.

Once bottled and conditioned for a couple weeks, where is the best place =
to store my beer.  Do I leave them in the ~70 deg. house, put them in =
the ~62 deg. basement or store them in the fridge?  I don't imagine =
they'll need storing for more than 4 - 6 weeks after the initial 2 week =
conditioning/carbonation period.

Since I am a recovering MillerBudCoors drinker, I have _very_ limited =
experience with various styles and different brewers offerings within =
styles.  I'm trying to expand my horizons and recently tried a Fosters =
Special Bitter.  Came in a BIG can (25.5 oz.).  I enjoyed it and =
wondered if this particular brew was representative of the bitter style. =
 I have also recently discovered a red lager from Linenkugels (sp?), =
located in Wisconsin I think.  To which style would this kind of beer =
belong?  Anyone familiar with this beer that has a recipe to clone it?

Private email OK. TIA

David
davidb at pdainc.com

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Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 11:53:32 -0800
From: George De Piro <George_De_Piro at berlex.com>
Subject: RE: Reverse step infusion mash  (George De Piro)

     Hi all,
     
     Charles Burns writes the following in reference to my statement about 
     "reverse step infusion mashing" (I said that it will denature the beta 
     amylase and yield a dextrinous wort):
     --------
     "And he's right, technically. However, I've got a recipe that does 
     exactly this and won a 2nd Place in California State Fair last summer. 
     Go for it Eric!"
     --------
     Well, Eric should go for it, if he wants a dextrinous wort!  The fact 
     that you made a nice beer with this technique is not surprising. Just 
     don't get confused about the reason the beer was good.
     
     You would get a similar result, with faster conversion, by insulating 
     your mash tun so that it can hold a steady temperature.  This would 
     also make it easier to brew consistent batches.  Allowing the 
     temperature to drop over the course of your saccharafication rest is 
     not what made the beer good.
     
     Have fun!
     
     George De Piro  (Nyack, NY)

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Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 12:03:57 -0800
From: George De Piro <George_De_Piro at berlex.com>
Subject: What dissolves beerstone?  (George De Piro)

     

     Howdy,
     
     Calcium oxalate, a.k.a. "beerstone", is soluble in dilute hydrochloric 
     acid or nitric acid (Merck index 12).
     
     It is practically insoluble in acetic acid (vinegar) and water 
     (obviously).
     
     If you want to be environmentally friendly, you should neutralize the 
     acid with baking soda before dumping it down the drain.  There will be 
     much foaming (CO2 evolution) when you add the baking soda to the acid, 
     so wear eye protection and add it slowly to avoid a violent (but 
     really cool) eruption.
     
     Have fun!
     
     George De Piro  (Nyack, NY)

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Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 12:44:12 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Carbonation computation

In the last few HBDs, Spencer and others have been diswcussing the amount
of CO2 needed to carbonate (and push out) beer at certain volumes of CO2,
with confused (confusing) results.  He has recorrected his results.

This points out once again why I think it makes more sense to talk about
carbonation in terms of CO2 content as per cent by weight as the Germans do
(g CO2/100 g beer, according to Eric Warner, _German Wheat Beer_).  This
eliminates the problem of calculating how much sugar to add to prime,
remembering weight of a mole of CO2,  flipping fractions, etc.  If we as
homebrewers would forget about volumes of CO2 (a rather arbitrary unit) and
go with g CO2/100 g beer, and start specifying CO2 content that way in our
articles, books, posts, home pages, etc., it seems to me that it would be
much simpler.  If Spencer has trouble with the arithmatic, think about the
vast majority of us.

Warner says (p.48) that the average wheat beer analysed contains
0.64g/100g, or 3.30 volumes.  This means that 1 volume equals 0.19 g/100g.
As I recall, a typical Pilsner has 0.5 g CO2/100 g. beer, which is also
about 2.5 volumes.  This means that if we wanted to prime to this content,
we'd add about 1 g. sugar/100 g beer, since sugar pretty nearly produces
half each CO2 and ethanol.  This also easily answers the often asked
question of "how much alcohol does my priming sugar add?"  About 1/2% in
this case.  Computation of the amount of CO2 needed to artificially
carbonate 5 gallons is equally straight forward (assuming 1 liter of beer
weighs 1 kg, close enough):

0.5 g CO2/100g beer X 18900g beer/5 gallons beer = 94.5g CO2/5 gallons beer

This ignores the amount of CO2 needed to push the beer out of the keg,
since that is the same regardless of whether we prime or artificially
carbonate.

Since few of us meter the volume of CO2 we put in our beer, it seems that
to we must always (derive volumes CO2) from some other measurement, such as
amount of priming sugar or pressure tables, with the opportunity for
errors.  To continue using this artificial, archaic unit makes little
sense.  Why not convert the craft's standard carbonation unit to per cent
dissolved CO2?  We just need tables giving % dissolved CO2 for each style.
The Germans have adopted this for good reason.

- -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu

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Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 11:45:06 -0600
From: lheavner at tcmail.frco.com
Subject: mead & Bass ale bottles

     Thanks to everybody who responded to my query on mead making.  I am 
     trying to get my friend with the honey to pick a few recipes and then 
     we're off....  To the responder in MASS who is coveting that honey, 
     I'll be in touch later...
     
     I also recently posted a problem with carbonation on a lagered 
     rauschbier.  I've discovered the problem and am no longer worried.  I 
     recently bought a case of Bass Ale and saved the bottles.  Some of the 
     beer was bottled in some of them including the first few samples I 
     tried.  Evidently, I didn't get a good seal on those bottles.  All of 
     my other bottles were well carbonated and none of the bass bottles had 
     more than a barely detectable fizz.  Has anybody else experienced a 
     problem with capping Bass bottles?
     
     Regards,
     
     Lou
     <lheavner at frmail.frco.com>

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Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 11:52 -0600
From: BAYEROSPACE <M257876 at sl1001.mdc.com>
Subject: green bottles - why?

collective homebrew conscience:

> Why do they use green glass for beer bottles, =
>anyway?

i would imagine that part of the reason is marketing.  in order to separate
himself from the masses, who quaff domestic brown bottled product (not skunked)
, a yupster will pay an extra $1.00 a bottle and receive a green bottle of 
skunky, old, stale beer.  this obviously distinguishes him as a man of great 
taste and sophistication, and can be detected visually by the color of the 
bottle from across the bar, by young, intelligent women seeking just such a 
man of the world. 

heineken and the others simply take advantage of this behavior (at the expense
of the beer, and the consumer, of course).  they *know* the effects of 
light on beer, but as long as joe q. style is willing to buy it, they'll 
gladly keep shipping it over here.

i wonder, does heineken use green glass for their domestically sold beer?


dennis wrote:

> And will the "double decotion, no sparge" make a beer
>too malty?  It is for a dark lager, and we are using the Wyeast
>Bavarian Lager yeast.

bavarian?  dark lager?  too malty??????????  i wouldn't worry about making
a bavarian dark lager too malty.  make it as malty as you can possibly 
make it.  you're on the right track.

brew hard,

mark bayer

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Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 12:57:16 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: More thoughts on carbonation computation

We have all been ignoring the dissolved CO2 in the beer before
priming/carbonating, which will, of course, affect the amount of CO2 or
sugar needed.  There are tables that give this, but they are in volumes
CO2.  These, of course, were converted from % dissolved CO2 at some point.
If we followed my proposal, we would need these as % dissolved CO2.

- -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu

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Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 10:04:49 -0800
From: Alan Folsom <folsom at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: War of the Worts results

Several people have called and/or emailed to ask if I had full results 
from the War of the Worts competition available.  Yes, but it is quite 
long, nearly as large as a single HBD.  If anyone would like a copy, 
send email and I will reply with it.

Score sheets should be out within a week or so.  I've started stuffing 
envelopes, but with nearly 700 scoresheets it will take a few days.

Again, thanks for all the support from brewers and judges.

Al Folsom

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Date: Thu, 23 Jan 97 11:22:59 MST
From: Peter Ruddy <ruddyp at mercury.stm.com>
Subject: Wort Chillers and Taste

Fellow Brewers,

I've been an extract brewer for a few years and I'm getting ready
to evolve to all-grain brewing.  Is there any truth to the following
statement?:

    If one doesn't use a wort-chiller with an all-grain batch
    the final product will have an odd flavor.

Thanks in advance for your help.


- -Pete    

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Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 12:28:44 -0600
From: Gary Eckhardt <gary_eckhardt at realworld.com>
Subject: SG after boil

Lo all!

I brewed a batch this weekend (my second all-grain) and the process
went well.  I checked my OG, and it was in the 1.040 range, not bad
for what I was mashing.  I was expecting somewhere in the range of
1.052, but I sparaged about 7 gallons of wort to help solve my
problem of short batches.  I'm assuming that this explains my SG
reading being a little low.  

However, I proceeded with the boil, and although I didn't check,
I'm sure that I got at least 5-5 1/2 gallons of wort after it
was all boiled down due to evaporation.  Unfortunately, I didn't
check my SG after the boil.  

What could I have expected my SG to be if I lost 1.5 gallons of
water in the boil?  Is there a quick-n-dirty formula anywhere for
this?

Thanks for any info.



- ---------------------------+----------------------------------------------
Gary Eckhardt              |   "in this day & age...music performed by
Database Consultants, Inc. |    humans...hum!?"  --wilde silas tomkyn
dcigary at txdirect.net       |                R,DW,HAHB!
gary_eckhardt at realworld.com| R^3 = "Real World.  Real Smart.  Real Quick."
(210)344-6566              |         http://www.realworld.com/

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Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 13:49:48 -0500
From: "Ed J. Basgall" <edb at chem.psu.edu>
Subject: Calcium oxalate

Al.

According to the Merck Index 12th edit.  Calcium oxalate is
insoluble in water and acetic acid, and soluble in dilute
hydrochloric and nitric acids.

cheers
Ed Basgall
SCUNM

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Date: Thu, 23 Jan 97 13:03:58 CST
From: John Wilkinson <jwilkins at imtn.tpd.dsccc.com>
Subject: Forced carbonation (John Wilkinson)

In the discussion of the merits of primed as opposed to forced carbonation,
I think someone mentioned the time it takes to force carbonate.  I do not
spend much time force carbonating my beer and I get good results.  I chill
the keg to ~40-45 F, attach the CO2 line, apply 15-20 psi, place the keg on
its side with the gas fitting up, and rock the keg back and forth for a couple
of minutes.  I then return the keg to the serving refrigerator and connect to
serving and CO2 lines.  I usually let it set for a few hours to let it settle
before serving from it.  It usually is better after a couple of days because
it has clarified after the agitation of carbonating and the carbonation seems
better.  My time spent actually carbonating is minimal and the wait for
properly settled and carbonated beer is only a couple of days.  I think this
is a lot better than I could expect from priming.
I have tried carbonating at higher pressures without much agitaion but tended
to get overcarbonated beer.  The 15-20 psi method gives better results for me.
I serve at ~8 psi.
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dennis Waltman inquired about a good digital thermometer.  Someone posted a
while back that one was available from Williams Sonoma, a cooking utensils
store that also does mail order.  In fact I think they are more into mail
order than they are stores.  At any rate, I went to a store in Plano, Texas
(near Dallas) and bought the thermometer for ~$15 I think.  I checked it
against boiling water and an ice water solution in a thermos as well as
against a fever thermometer and found it to agree within ~1 degree F.  I find
it quite handy although I have had to replace the battery twice but I keep
forgetting to turn it off.

John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas - jwilkins at imtn.dsccc.com

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Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 11:25:01 PST
From: Joseph Kral <kral at hpljlk.hpl.hp.com>
Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest V2 #42

> 
> Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 14:32:05 -0700
> From: Jeff Sturman <brewshop at coffey.com>
> Subject: pronunciation
> 
> We have some home brew riding on this one:  How do you pronounce Gueuze?
> (blended lambic beer)
> 

Its 'gerz' sort of a growl with a 'z' at the end.
(an american 'z' sound, not 'zed').

- --
Joseph Kral
Hewlett-Packard Laboratories
kral at hpljlk.hpl.hp.com

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Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 12:38:41 -0700
From: Ken Sullivan <kj at nts.gssc.com>
Subject: Large Fermentation Barrels 8-}

Contact St. Patricks of Texas homebrew store.
They get their Briess Malt Extract in 15 Gallon Blue plastic barrels.
They will sell them for $2 each.  Shipping is more expensive than the 
barrels.  They are great!!  ABout $12 to get 4 shipped from Texas to
Colorado.   Also, your local supermarket buys bulk OJ and Milk.
They usually get the bulk liquids in 55 gallon plastic drums _OR_
they will buy sanitizer to clean out their packaging equipment between
runs.  The sanitizer comes in 55 Gallon drums.  Also check a local
feed & supply store.  I bought 6 each 55 gallons drums for $4 each.
They had sanitizer in them used to clean the lines between runs of
OJ and Milk.  Should be just fine after rinsing. Look around, save some
money.  Also, the Beer Store in Boulder,CO (U-Brew-it) uses the 15 gallon
drums with the plastic food-grade liner and a stopper as well.  The
liners are available through U.S.Plastics or COnsolidated Plastics.

KJ

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Date: Thu, 23 Jan 97 14:45 EST
From: eric fouch <S=eric_fouch%S=fouch%G=eric%DDA=ID=STC021+pefouch%Steelcase-Inc at mcimail.com>
Subject: Late Response- perhaps one more(

Date: Thursday, 23 January 1997 1:16pm ET
To: STC012.HOMEBRE1 at STC010.SNADS
From: Eric.Fouch at STC001
Subject: Late Response- perhaps one more(Efouch)
In-Reply-To: The letter of Thursday, 23 January 1997 10:59am ET
 
HBD-
 
Sorry if my post ever shows up regarding B Bakers questions about yeast and
aeration.  It should have showed up by now, and the subject has been answered
fairly thoroughly already.  I really thought I'd be the first :(
 
Al-
 
Calcium Oxalate is soluble in dilute HCl or dilute HNO3.  Don't mix the two
acids, as you might make "aqua regia", which dissolves most any metal except
silver (1 part nitric, 3 parts hydrochloric).
 
J. Sturman-
 
The correct pronounciation of gueuze (as I'm sure I'm not the first to point
out) is "gerz".  I hope the homebrew is good or was worth it. :)
 
C. Burns-
 
I'm not worried about my brew(s), but, to recap a portion of my apparently
lost post;
}
 Well, in short, you can't work backwards with mash enzymes.
 
 The high initial heat will denature the beta amylase.  As the
 temperature drops all that you will achieve is slowing down the
 surviving alpha amylase.  You'll get conversion, but a highly
}
 
This *seems* to fly in the face of  information Al K. gave me about the
neccesity of the mash out:  Paraphrasing, I proposed mashout may be overkill
because perhaps alpha amylase activation temps denatured beta amylase, so in
the cooling sparge collection kettle, niether enzyme would be working, as you
are below alpha temps, and beta amylase had been denatured, which is what
George just said.  Al assured me this don't happen (OK, he used better
grammer), that both enzymes are denatured only at the mashout temperature.
 
Who's right?  Who's wrong?  Do I still just don't get it?  I know MBINR,
but I'm curious as to what the enzymes are up to.
 
TIA for FAQ's
 
Eric Fouch
Curious in Kentwood.
(Bent Dick Yactobrewery)

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #2323