---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@ brew.oeonline.com
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Esters, RyePA, Flaming  Necks ("David R. Burley")
  How does beer affect you? (JohnT6020)
  Malting amaranth (Andy Milder)
  Books wanted (JohnT6020)
  Yeast and somersaults ... (Steve Alexander)
  Aeration (are we still having fun? ;-) (Mark Riley)
  milk pail mod (BAYEROSPACE)
  Wheat malting and wheat and extract recipe (Jorge Blasig - IQ)
  Gambrinus Honey Malt ("Tom Galley")
  Grain layers (AJN)
  re: Chest freezer conversion (erikvan)
  Forecasting Final Gravity (Charles Rich)
  re:sanitary yeast harvesting (Shea Salyer)
  new beer ("Bryan L. Gros")
  filtering air ("Bryan L. Gros")
  re:Lagering (Charles Burns)
  Inverted fermentation ("Stuart E. Strand")
  MS Brewpubs (Wallinger)
  Low gravity blues (Ray Love)
  re: Jethro on Copper, Beware the Rootbeer Beer + ("C.D. Pritchard")
  Canning worts ("C.D. Pritchard")
  Popcorn? (Tim.Watkins)
  Re: Fass Frisch Addresses ("Kevin Sinn ")
  Rye for beginners and Old Peculiar recipe request (Dan Cole)
  intensity of boil (BAYEROSPACE)
  8 gallon home made stainless w/ rusty welds??? ("Robert F. Hopkins, Jr")
  planispiral chiller results (Sharon/Dan Ritter)
  re:  wyeast #2112 California Lager (CClayworks)
  Belgian Wit (TEX28)
  Brew-Ski '97 (Homebrewing Competition) (Jeff Handley & Gene Almquist)
  Filtering Flattus (spankstr)
  CO2 purge ("David R. Burley")


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: 31 Jan 97 12:14:15 EST
From: "David R. Burley" <103164.3202 at CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Esters, RyePA, Flaming  Necks

Brewsters:

John Goldthwaite asks:

> Lately I have found myself in need of some info pertaining to
> esters.

Esters are the reaction products of alcohols and carboxylic acids.  They are
apparently not formed this way primarily in a fermentation, but are the result
of a metabolic pathway in yeast.  They are the primary odorants in many fruits
and in low concentrations in beer may make you think "fruity" without being able
to identify the fruit.  At higher concentrations you may smell ethyl acetate (
reaction product of ethanol and acetic acid)  and think "nail polish remover" or
"solvent".  You may smell amyl acetate (amyl alcohol and acetic acid)  and think
"bananas".  If you smell "cloves" or "spices" it is not an ester, but rather
eugenol which is phenol substituted with an ether and an unsaturated side chain.
Fusel ( higher molecular weight)  alcohols are reputed to provide an oily,
solventy smell sometimes.
- ----------------------------------------------
> Alan Folsom sez:
> 
> "I am interested in brewing a batch of IPA this weekend, but
> experimenting with Rye Malt in the batch.

Rye malt is gummy and will give you a slow lauter, as you know.  Do a beta
glucanase rest at around 122F  as  95 -131 F is the active region for glucanase
at mash pH, assuming the enzymes in rye are the same as barley .  Although I
didn't, you may want to do this rest at this temperature with just the rye malt
( a split mash) to prevent depleting your beer of head forming properties which
come from the barley proteins. I recommend a thick mash to maximize these gum
destroting enzymes' activity  Even with this low temperaure rest for the entire
grain bill, my rye beer had a big thick head, but I used a German Pils malt to
simulate a Roggen. A split mash at the start of the mash is a good idea with
fully converted malts like you would use in an IPA. 

My observation is that the wort viscosity in this mash is very noticeably
temperature dependent, so run the lauter at a higher temperature than you
normally do to reduce the viscosity.  I have even drained the grain bed (gasp!)
at maximum speed to prevent cooling, rinsed the bed with hot water and heated
the wort up and then recirculated it to clarity,  followed by a final hot water
sparge.  It worked great.  This was more than 30% rye malt as I recall and was
marginally slower than my normal sparge which I control to 45 minutes to an hour
with largely barley malts.
 .---------------------------------------------
 Tom Williams asked is it necessary (or advised) to flame the mouth of
> the secondary prior to transferring yeast to storage? 

Personally, I think flaming of the surface has little to offer in way of
sterilizing or even sanitizing the neck the of the carboy unless you get the
surface temperature up there.  It is possibly dangerous depending on how you do
it. Above all don't put alcohol into the carboy or on the surface and light it.
It will not heat the glass and you may get an explosion.

I do it this way:

Dampen a cloth or paper towel with *acidic* metabisulfite solution.  The
metabisulfite should be about 500 ppm.  pH should be below 3.5, 3.0 is better,
but it is not critical how far below.  Use a food acid, say, citric or tartaric
acid.  Wipe the neck of the carboy with this cloth, removing any crud that may
have somehow gotten there, but don't let the solution drip into the yeast.
Since yeast can stand 100 ppm of metabisulfite, pouring the yeast out over this
neck now will not affect them as the amount of metabisulfite is small and
bacteria are killed above about 30 ppm with acidic metabisulfite.  I cap it in a
12 oz beer bottle and put it in the refrigerator

If this worries you, stop worrying. I occasionally wash my yeast in 50 ppm
metabisulfite which is acidic, followed by cool boiled water twice and pitch
into a starter.  I've never done it, but I suppose the yeast will be stable in
the water if placed in a refrigerator without pitching. Others have written here
about using distilled water to store their yeast, minimizing the potential for
bacterial contamination. Although some commercial brewers pitch  washed yeast
directly, apparently there is evidence  that acid-washed yeast can sometimes not
behave "normally" for the first fermentation (maybe because its
uncontaminated??). Since I pitch the yeast into a starter before it goes into a
batch, I have never seen this problem.
- -----------------------------------------------------
Keep on brewin'


Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3202 at compuserve.com
Voice e-mail OK


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Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 12:36:20 -0500 (EST)
From: JohnT6020 at aol.com
Subject: How does beer affect you?

What is the feeling you get from drinking beer or any other alcoholic
beverage.  I'm serious.  I would like to read some different people's
description of the "feel-good" feeling they get from alcohol; not the
drop-down-drunk feeling but the level at which the effect is pleasant.

Can you describe this feeling?  What kind of thoughts occur to you that would
not happen without the drink.  Does the drink make any unpleasant thoughts or
feelings go away, become less important or become solved?  Does the drink
have any effect on physical pain.

If you can put together a description of a beer drinkers "feel-good" I would
appreciate an e-mail copy.

73,
JET

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Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 11:38:46 -0600
From: milder at rs6k1.hep.utexas.edu (Andy Milder)
Subject: Malting amaranth

Hi,
I had a dream of making a high-percentage amaranth beer which would 
require home-malting 5 pounds or so. I've just tried test malting a 
pound and all I succeeded in creating was an incredibly foul stench.

I failed miserably and I think I know why: amaranth is small. After
soaking, the grains are 1 mm of so in diameter. Unless laid out rather 
thinly, there will be no air flow between grains and they will 
rot/mold. And if they are spread thinly, they will dry out quickly
(because they're small), necessitating frequent soaking or spraying to 
keep them wet.

Needless to say, I used a tall container- soaked them for about 24 
hours, changing the water every 8. Then I drained the water, and let 
it sit for a few days, soaking and draining every 8 hours or so to 
keep the grain wet. The smell just got worse and worse until I gave up 
and tossed the mess.

Has anyone tried this? If someone has used it as an adjunct, how did 
you use it? Milled or flour? boiled for how long before adding to the
mash? Does anyone know the gelatinization temp? I tried using 10 oz of 
flour, but I got no noticable flavor contribution and I'm afraid I 
didn't gelatinize it first. Amaranth has a unique kinda nutty flavor
that I think would be a great addition to some types of beer.

Thanks in advance for any help,

Andy Milder 

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Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 13:00:16 -0500 (EST)
From: JohnT6020 at aol.com
Subject: Books wanted

I am seeking, for purchase, copies of the Wahl Handybooks that were published
by the Wahl Institute in Chicago in 1943 and before.  There are four volumes
to the set that I know of.  The reference would be:

Wahl, Arnold Spencer. Wahl Handybook of the American Brewing Industry [in
four volumes]. Wahl Institute, Inc. , Chicago, 1944

I would like to find the whole set but any one volume would be helpful.
 Please e-mail me if you have any of these books or know where I can obtain
them.

73,
JET

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Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 13:14:46 -0500
From: Steve Alexander <stevea at clv.mcd.mot.com>
Subject: Yeast and somersaults ...


Heiner Lieth writes about bottling the 'sludge' from the secondary ...

>... But here is the strange part:  when
>I uncapped the bottle all the yeast lifted off the bottom and ended up on
>the surface of the beer, some of it erupting out of the bottle.
 ...
>I'm going to do this again in the future because bottling a "ton" of
>sediment is much less work then stepping up the yeast from scratch. I might
>be inclined to do some "yeast washing" but that sure sounds like a lot of
>work for little gain.

There was obviously a little residual activity continuing and the
yeast flocs with their attached CO2 bubbles were not bouyant at
pressure.  When you opened the bottle and released the pressure the
CO2 bubbles expand and the yeast flocs rise.

You may not need to acid wash your yeast for reuse, but washing the
'sludge' with sanity water to remove the wort/beer will prevent this
problem and then storing the yeast under pure water should improve the
survival of the yeast (see HBD article last 1996).  See 'the brewery'
website for washing details.

Steve Alexander

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Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 10:06:50 -0800
From: Mark Riley <mriley at netcom.com>
Subject: Aeration (are we still having fun? ;-)

Hello HBD,

While I personally haven't adopted an aggressive aerating
regime (yet), I thought the following might be pertinent to
the current thread:

I know from my aquarium days that aeration is best accomplished
with the largest air to water surface area and a mechanical
means of moving water in the tank so that it flows past this
surface.  The air stones you see in an aquarium contribute
relatively little to directly aerating the water since the
bubbles have a small surface area compared to the top of the
tank.  It is the motion of water created by these air stones
that keeps the water moving past the air/water interface (basicly
the top of the tank) where the water can pick up oxygen.

With that in mind, perhaps it isn't necessary to have the air
stone going full blast, but instead, set at just the right speed
to get the wort in motion.  There would be the benefit of
less foam (who needs it ;-) and for those using oxygen, less
oxygen bottles to buy.

So... with that all said, a crazy thought pops into my head.

Picture this:

A small impellor on a long shaft is driven at moderate speed
by a small DC motor (kinda like those things they make
milk shakes with but not spinning so fast).  This gets the
wort in motion but doesn't generate (much) foam.  After
an initial blast of oxygen to purge the head space with the
pure gas, set the oxygen on trickle. Less foam, less oxygen
to buy (and hopefully happy yeasties).

This really is a great hobby...  ;-)

Mark Riley
Antelope, CA


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Date:     Fri, 31 Jan 1997 12:25 -0600
From: M257876 at sl1001.mdc.com (BAYEROSPACE)
Subject:  milk pail mod

collective homebrew conscience:

don anderson wrote:


> A friend of mine who owns a ranch gave me a Stainless steel milking
>pail to help out in my brewing endevors. It's 14 inches high, 12 inches
>in diameter at the bottom and 7 inches at the top (it is kind of beer
>bottle shaped) and made of fairly thick stainless steel. I already have
>a mash/lauter tun and this pail is kind of small for a fermentor. What
>can I use this for? decoction mash? decorative planter? milking cows?


i think you might be able to make a grant out of it, if you can drill a hole
in the side near the bottom and affix a valved outlet.  this piece of 
equipment is used at the outlet of the lauter tun during recirculation.  
basically it allows you to keep the output of the lauter tun running at a
constant flow rate while you recirculate.  depending on the quantity of liquid
and grain in your mash, it allows you to maintain the level of the liquid in the
lauter tun at whatever distance above or below the grain surface you desire 
while vorlaufing.   judging from the dimensions you gave, it would probably 
hold nearly five gallons.  this is plenty of capacity for a typical five 
gallon batch, and would be enough for even a 10 gallon batch.  
if you wanted to get fancy, you could even heat it *gently* from the bottom 
to keep the mash liquor warm as you recirculate.  if you do use it as a grant,
run a hose from your lauter output to the bottom of the pail to avoid 
splashing during recirculation.

additionally, you could use it as a small open fermenter for 3 gallon batches.

you might be able to make a flotation tank out of it.  you could
do all three, actually.  for a flotation tank, you may want two valved outlets.

since stainless is a relatively poor heat conductor, it wouldn't be an ideal
"turn on the heat and let it go"  decoction vessel, but you could use it if 
you kept an eye on it and stirred often.  i have a very thin bottomed stainless
pot for decoctions and it's not a huge hassle.  if it has handles, that's even
better.

sparge water reservoir?  put a valved tap on that sucker and you could do 
nearly anything with it. 

brew hard,

mark bayer

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Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 16:24:03 -0300 (GMT-0300)
From: Jorge Blasig - IQ <gisalb at elmer.fing.edu.uy>
Subject: Wheat malting and wheat and extract recipe


Dear Friends:

I am planning to prepare a new batch of homebrew using my malt extract 
and wheat malt. I have prepare a couple of batches and did it good 
(the second one is better than the first). Anyhow, my beer did not have 
nice head retention. It presents good carbonation and head, but 
retention is poor. At least, this is my opinion. Taste, flavor and aroma
are good, though I do not have any other homebrew to compare with.
I believe I will improve head retention in my beer if I use wheat malt . 
However, there is no chance to obtain wheat malt
here, so I need to malt it myself. I will have no problem to obtain raw 
wheat and will malt it if I can get the correct procedure to do it.

I wonder if you can send me some information on malting procedures, in 
particular on wheat malting.

As you know, my malt extract composition is: maltose 45-55%, dextrins 20%,
proteins 5-6% and xBrix 80-83 (1.47 specific gravity). I have used a recipe 
with 5kg of extract (OG 1.055), ale yeast and got a FG of 1.010 and a alcohol 
content approximately 6% in volume. IBU is approx. 25, using Northern 
Brewers for bitterness and Cascade hops for aroma. I had some problems with
temperature during the second batch. Temperature was around 25 to 30C 
during fermentation and I wonder whether I will obtain better brews when
temperature decreases.

I would appreciate if any of you suggests me a recipe using wheat or wheat
malt and this extract. I will use the recipe you suggest for my next batch. 
Thanks.

Jorge Blasig



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Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 13:09:36 -0600
From: "Tom Galley" <galley at sperry-sun.com>
Subject: Gambrinus Honey Malt


Does anyone have any experience with this?

Description:
Gambrinus has re-introduced an old German malt style called "bruhmalt"
under the name Honey Malt because of it's unique honey-like aroma and
flavor. Adds an intense malty sweetness with a hint of red color. Color: 18
degrees L. 

Certainly sounds like an interesting addition to my next brew.

Tom
galley at sperry-sun.com


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Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 14:17:31 -0500 (EST)
From: AJN <neitzkea at frc.com>
Subject: Grain layers

Would there be any advantage to layering your grains for the mash?

There have been several posts about having a sticky mash, due to grains 
like rye.  If you were to put several pounds of barley malt than add 
corn, wheat, or rye, than on top of that add the rest of the barley malt, 
would it help or make it worse?

_________________________________________________________________________
Arnold J. Neitzke                         Internet Mail: neitzkea at frc.com
Brighton Mi.

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Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 14:24:40 -0600 (CST)
From: erikvan at ix.netcom.com
Subject: re: Chest freezer conversion

>rcoron at lsumc.edu (Corona, Raynold J) wrote:

>I just purchased a second-hand chest freezer.  I plan to put a tap on
>the front of it to dispense my beer from cornelius kegs.  Question:  how
>do I figure out where to drill the hole for the tap shank without
>drilling into the cooling coils?

Ray,

I just got a similar freezer, and am in the process of doing the same.
The best way of doing this is to drill into the lid, where there are no
coils. You have two options. 

	1)Drill on the front face of the lid (usually about 2 inches high)
	  doing this puts the tap at a reasonable height, and still allows
	  you to fit the kegs in, without having the taps in the way.	
	-or-
	2)Buy chrome columns and top mount them.

I just ordered 2 columns, with faucets, for $165 each. Each one has
2 faucets, allowing 4 beers on tap. If you do top mount, realize that
the freezer is constructed with thin sheet metal, and support, plywood
works well, should be used inside the lid. Also, don't buy a cheap
thermostat, if it stops working, how can you pour frozen beer?

Best of luck with the modification.

Erik Vanthilt
erikvan at ix.netcom.com

The Virtual Brewery
Http://www.netcom.com/~erikvan/brewery.html



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Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 12:15:20 -0800
From: Charles Rich <CharlesR at SAROS.COM>
Subject: Forecasting Final Gravity

Regarding "hot" fermenting (75-80F) a sample of pitched wort to predict
a batch's FG Dave Burnley says:

> You used the correct word "approximation".  It may well be that the higher
> temperature fementation will go to a lower FG than the lower temperature
> fermetation, depending on the yeast, OG, etc.  Besides it is unnecessary. 

If a lower temp ferment 'overlooks' any sugars (what else would account
for a significant difference in gravity) sugar test strips will indicate
the same unfermented sugars.  So whether using test strips or a fast
fermented-sample you have the same result; you know you have some
unfermented sugars.

In practice I find very good agreement between predicted and actual FG's
**to the resolution of a hydrometer reading** (emphasis mine).  A hot
ferment might be a little more complete than my batch ferment mainly
because I don't always need/want to wait for the batch to ferment the
last little bit, but I know pretty well what fraction of potential
gravity I'm trading off.

Cheers
Charles Rich

"Good enough is good enough, perfection is a pain in the ass."

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Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 13:14:44 -0800
From: Shea Salyer <my.turn.productions at mci2000.com>
Subject: re:sanitary yeast harvesting



tom williams writes

> is it necessary (or advised) to flame the mouth of
>the secondary prior to transferring yeast to storage?  I'm not sure if
these
>carboys are up to the heat stress or not.  

Do it quickly, you shouldn't be holding a flame there long enough to really
heat up the glass.  Simple measures to keep your yeast clean are good
things.

On a yeasty note-does anyone know what strain of yeast used in Mad River
Brewing's "Jamaica Brand Red Ale"? I made a starter form the dregs of one
bottle, more out of curiosity as to their viabililty than intention to use
them...but after watching the starter take off (and taking note of a
delicate fruity aroma), I decided to use it in a batch of an all-Columbus
IPA.  It brought the 1.072 wort down to 1.015 in a week (65-68 F), and is
dryhopping now in the cellar.

Good to have the HBD back...let's keep the focus on the beer...

Neil in Seattle <my.turn.productions at mci2000.com>

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Date-warning: Date header was inserted by ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu
From: "Bryan L. Gros" <grosbl at ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu>
Subject: new beer

Eugene Sonn <eugene at dreamscape.com> wrote:
>        I've got a case of the brewing blahs.  It's time for a new batch,
>but I'm not feeling inspired to brew any particular style......which
>brings me to my question.  Are there any beers people have brewed (either
>a style or a specific beer) which particularly surprised you?  I'm looking
>for something to be my next brewing project.  I'm thinking that this would
>be a good thread for those of us who've gotten in a brewing rut.  

I haven't made it in a few years, but I have a recipe for a honey-basil ale
which is a nice beer, if a bit unusual.  I had a basic american wheat beer
recipe, lightly hopped, to which I threw in about 2 oz. (or so) of fresh
basil.  The result was subtle but noticible on the herb.  A refreshing summer
beer, and good to cook with!

          - Bryan
            grosbl at ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
            Nashville, TN


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Date-warning: Date header was inserted by ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu
From: "Bryan L. Gros" <grosbl at ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu>
Subject: filtering air

Keith asks (for his friend):
>And finally, a question.  I've, uh, got this friend (yeah, that's
>it, a friend) that might consider filtering his aquarium pump air ;)
>My question, I mean his question is, are these submicron lab filters
>that I hear about *really* necessary?  ...

Kieth, those of us who don't (yet) have a pump and airstone resort
to shaking our carboys and splashing our wort to dissolve O2.  We
(usually) don't have problems with infections due to using plain old
air (unfiltered, of course).  Why do you think that, by dissolving air
with a pump of some sort, you would have a sudden infection problem?

Am I missing something?

          - Bryan
            grosbl at ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
            Nashville, TN


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Date: Fri, 31 Jan 97 16:19 PST
From: cburns at egusd.k12.ca.us (Charles Burns)
Subject: re:Lagering

Chris asks about Wyeast 2206 in hbd 2331:

>>>>>Primary & secondary at 50-55*
Diacetyl rest at 60-65* for 3 days.
reduce temp. back to 50*, bottle, & lager in fridge at 40*

Can I use a Wyeast 2206 Bavarian or should I go with the California Lager
yeast?<<<<<<<<<<

Chris, I just brewed (Sunday) an Oktoberfest and used 2206 for the first 
time. Its in the primary now at 53-54F in the corner of my basement, next to 
an open window. It looks fine, been bubblin' away for 5 days nice and 
steady. This morning it was doing about 5 bubbles a minute.

I plan to secondary at the same spot, then lager in a keg in the 
refrigerator at 40F. Sounds about like your plan. I just don't have any idea 
how long the primary and secondary should take.

Charley


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Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 17:01:02 -0800
From: "Stuart E. Strand" <sstrand at saul.u.washington.edu>
Subject: Inverted fermentation

In my quest to eliminate the secondary fermentation and cut down on
washing up and other labor I am going to try inverted fermentation. 
Rather than the available commercial set ups for this (Brewcap and
Fermitap), I am going to make my own stand for an inverted 6.7 gal carboy.
The stopper will be clamped on and a long tube will go to the bottom (top
when inverted) to allow CO2 to escape and a short tube at the top (bottom
when inverted) will allow me to pull off the yeast when the fermentation
is completed, preventing autolysis and overexposure to residual cold break
trub.  I'm going to add another intermediate length tube to permit me to
sample during the fermentation.  

Can anyone offer some advice?  Pros and cons?

  = Stuart =
____________________________________________________________________
Stuart Strand . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . sstrand at u.washington.edu
AR-10, Univ. Washington, Seattle, WA 98195 . . . . . .  206-543-5350 


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Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 19:29:27 -0600
From: Wallinger <wawa at datasync.com>
Subject: MS Brewpubs

This is a bit off topic, but bear with me. The state of alcoholic beverage
regulation is in sad shape in Mississippi, and we need all the support we
can get. Senate Bill 3010, which legalizes brewpubs, emerged from committee
this week. It should hit the floor for a vote soon. Those who support this
bill should contact their Mississippi Senators and Representatives. Feel
free to email me for more information.

Wade
Pascagoula, Mississippi
http://www.datasync.com/~wawa

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Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 18:05:19 -0800
From: Ray Love <rlove at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Low gravity blues

I'm turning to the collective wisdom of the digest for some guidance on
why we may be getting low original gravities.  Our last 3 batches have
had less than expected starting gravities.  For all 3 we used "bulk"
pale malt as the base.  A porter with 6 pounds, a spice ale with 6
pounds, and an Octoberfest with 8 pounds.  The original gravities were
1.033, 1.030, and 1.020!!! respectively.  The first two tasted just
fine, if a little thin.  The fest is still fermenting.

What gives?  Our hydrometer reads 1.000 in plain water.  Is anyone else
getting these low results with bulk syrup?  

 - Ray Love
rlove at ix.netcom.com

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Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 00:07:39 +0700
From: "C.D. Pritchard" <cdp at mail.chattanooga.net>
Subject: re: Jethro on Copper, Beware the Rootbeer Beer +

Jethro posted:
>        Back in November, we were paid a visit, following a phone survey on
?the use of brass in the brew-house, particularly in regard to fermented
product...I'm sure you folks have heard of the FDA 'suggestion' that brass
be eliminated from the brewery, when it is able to be in contact with acidic
pH's and the relatively high percentage, (compared to H2O) of ETOH....the
fear being that copper might be leached from the brass, and harm the
customer.<      ^^^^^^

What's this about copper being a potiential problem?  From my admittly
limited reading and the lawsuits and the Calif. law reguarding brasss
plumbing fixtures, it was my understanding that the problem with brass was
the lead which some alloys contain.  At least for water, the limit on copper
is pretty high and based on the levels that'll give one an upset stomach at
worst.  
Is this yet another health scare?  

 - - - - - - - - - - 
Robin E. Decker posted about kegged rootbeer causing later batches of home
brew to resemble root beer. 

I think time and possibly temperature is a key variable.  I've corny-kegged
root beer as well as orange soda and haven't had a problem, BUT, I force
carbonated them quickly and counter pressure filled PET bottles within 1 and
2 days respectively.  Subsequent brews in the kegs (after the normal warm
water rinse and flush and Idophor sanitizer) had no ill-effects.  

 - - - - - - - - - - -
To our esteemed new Janitor:  >>>THANKS Pat!<<<
For the rest of us, if there's an occassional glitch in the Digest, lets'
try to keep in mind that Pat's a volunteer.   

c.d. pritchard             cdp at chattanooga.net 
http://caladan.chattanooga.net/~cdp/index.html


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Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 00:07:56 +0700
From: "C.D. Pritchard" <cdp at mail.chattanooga.net>
Subject: Canning worts

I've always used "Mason" jars for canning wort for subsequent use as
starters.  Recently, lacking sufficient jars, I tried ordinary 12 oz. beer
bottles with good results.  I'd worried a bit about the seals on the bottle
caps withstanding boiling temps. but, after one month at room temp., there's
no problem with the worts.   Method was the typical canning method- boil
bottles, drain breifly and fill while hot with boiling wort, cap (I didn't
preheat the caps) and process for 30 mins. in a boiling water bath.  A
caveat:  be careful around hot fluids- particuliarly when capping the
bottles of hot wort since the bottles you use probably weren't designed for
this service.  The only disadvantage I've noted is that I miss the lid of a
jar being sucked down as an indicator of a good seal.

c.d. pritchard             cdp at chattanooga.net 
http://caladan.chattanooga.net/~cdp/index.html


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Date: Fri, 31 Jan 97 15:53:21 EST
From: Tim.Watkins at analog.com
Subject: Popcorn?

How about mashing popcorn?  Have the starches been properly converted at 
that point, or do I have no idea what I'm talking about.....

Tim


- -----------------------
Tim Watkins
Applications Engineer
Analog Devices, Inc.
(617) 937-1428
Tim.Watkins at analog.com

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Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 07:58:50 -0500
From: "Kevin Sinn " <skinner at MNSi.Net>
Subject: Re: Fass Frisch Addresses

Ian Smith writes:

>Does anyone know the address of Fass Fritch (sp ?) in GERMANY. They 
>distribute stainless steel 5 litre mini-kegs which I need desperately for 
>my kegging system?

Here's the German address (right off the instruction in a CO2 tap kit)

FASS-FRISCH GmbH
Werkstr. 6-8
75031  Eppingen-Muhlbach

Also, here's are addresses for distributers in the US and Canada:

USA:
3667 Morgan Road
Ann Arbor, Michigan
48108

Canada:
225 Wyandotte Street East, #106
Windsor, Ontario
N9A 3H5

Hope this helps!

Happy Brewing.
 -KRS



Filled with mingled cream and amber
I will drain that glass again.
Such hilarious visions clamber
Through the chambers of my brain ---
Quaintest thoughts --- queerest fancies
Come to life and fade away;
Who cares how time advances?
I am drinking ale today.

	- Edgar Allan Poe


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Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 08:09:47 -0500
From: Dan Cole <dcole at roanoke.infi.net>
Subject: Rye for beginners and Old Peculiar recipe request

After reading everyone's comments on using Rye malt, I was wondering if
anyone has experience just using malted Rye as a specialty grain? My plan
was to put it a pot of cold water and over 45mins-1 hour bring it up to
~170degF, treating it like Crystal or chocolate malt. I have heard two
descriptions of the flavor that Rye imparts; some have described it as dry,
others as sweet. I am sure this is due to different ways of treating the
rye. Does anyone have experience which one you'll get by just steeping as a
specialty grain and what quantity of Rye would a good upper limit to use
this way?

Also, could someone reproduce (even off-line) the recipe for Old Peculiar
from the latest edition of Zymurgy (Old Ales are the cover story)? Extract
and all-grain if possible.

Thanks,
Dan Cole
dcole at roanoke.infi.net


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Date:     Sat, 1 Feb 1997 08:47 -0600
From: M257876 at sl1001.mdc.com (BAYEROSPACE)
Subject:  intensity of boil

collective homebrew conscience:

i noticed a mention of boil intensity as it relates to hop utilization.  i, 
unlike al k, cannot get sufficient bitterness using the rager formulas.  my
beers are a lot better balanced when using the hoptech utilization scheme, but
i think the reason i don't get utilization as high as some others might is
because the intensity of my boil isn't tremendous.  i achieve a rolling boil
in an enamel kettle over two burners on an electric stove. most of the intense
rolling action is over the two burners.  

i've taken the anheuser busch tour a few times, and one thing that struck me
about their brewhouse was the intensity of the boils they were conducting at
the time.  it appeared to be a much more intense boiling than what i can 
achieve with my equipment. 

if it's the motion of the wort that helps the isomerization, i wonder if a 
longer hop boil (90 min. or more) would increase my utilization. i've read that 
overboiling hops can lead to decreased bitterness, but is this because of too
much motion, or too much long time exposure to temperature?  if it's too much
motion, i suspect i would not see decreased utilization.

regardless, until i have an equipment change, i will probably just use a 
little more hops to get the balance i desire.

just out of curiosity, have any of you brewers who moved from stovetop to
propane/natural gas burner setups seen an increase in utilization due to 
increased boil intensity?

also, i've read that some brewers advocate boiling past a positive hot break
before adding hops.  do first-wort-hopped beers have decreased break potential?
i've used first-wort-hopping, but didn't really notice a decrease in break
material.  of course, i've been using 1/2 tablespoon of irish moss per 5
gallon batch.  al k's recent post suggests maybe i should back off on this a
tad.  

brew hard,

mark bayer
 

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Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 11:48:19 -0500
From: "Robert F. Hopkins, Jr" <trollhat at erols.com>
Subject: 8 gallon home made stainless w/ rusty welds???

I have been fortunate enough to inherit a home made SS pot.  
It is just over 8 gal. It has been welded along the bottom 360 
deg., as well as, vertically where the top section was welded 
together to make a cylinder.  This pot was used many times to 
steam C.B. Blue Crabs.  It has sat for at least two years. When 
I found it, there was some slight surface rust around the welds. 
I cleaned them with a small stainless brush, all the rust was 
removed with little effort.  I am concerned that this may be a 
"bad" pot to use as a brew kettle...  Is this the case?  Can I 
just clean and dry it thoroughly after I brew to prevent the rust 
forming?  Any assistance with this matter would be greatly apprec
 -iated!  I intend to brew my first batch of beer with it using 
extracts, and a full 5 gallon boil...

Many thanks in advance,

Bob Hopkins
trollha at erols.com

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Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 08:51:57 -0800
From: Sharon/Dan Ritter <ritter at camasnet.com>
Subject: planispiral chiller results

I used my newly built "planispiral" wort chiller yesterday on a batch of
special bitter. (For anyone who hasn't been following the planispiral
chiller thread, it is basically an immersion chiller made of copper that is
wound into a tight spiral - think of a heating element on an electric
stove.)

I admit to being somewhat skeptical of the claims that this design would
eliminate the need to agitate.  But, it works!  My chiller is configured so
that about 1/2" of wort covers the coils - in other words the chiller is
suspended at the TOP of the wort.  My wort chilled from post-boiling temps
to 65F in 25 minutes (no stirring!).  In another 15 minutes it came down to
a pitching temp. of 55F. I cool my tap water before it enters the chiller
with an ice bath - I'd guess the water enters the chiller at 45F. During
the chilling process I could feel the temperature differential on the side
of the pot.  The bottom of the wort coiled first, gradually moving toward
the top.  I now have an extra half hour in my brewing process that I can
devote to something other than hovering over the coiling wort.  Very cool!


Dan Ritter <ritter at camasnet.com>
Ritter's MAMMOTH Brewery
Grangeville, Idaho



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Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 12:26:13 -0500 (EST)
From: CClayworks at aol.com
Subject: re:  wyeast #2112 California Lager

I recently re-subscribed to this list and only caught the tail end of the "no
fizz in my bottles" thread, so if this has already been covered, let me know
and I'll go back to the "shup-up, listen and learn mode."  In Dec I brewed a
couple of California Common style batches--my first ever use of lager yeast.
 I used one and a half quart starter of 1.040 (probably over kill, but it
kicked off like a son-of-a-gun).  Primary fermentation was 5 days at 65-70 F,
secondary was three weeks in basement at 45-50 F.  I primed using 4 oz of
corn sugar, bottled and put the bottles back in basement.  Three weeks later,
I tested one--FLAT!  A week later--still flat.  A couple of days ago I moved
the bottles back to warmer temps in hopes of someday having carbonated beer.
 Now for the neophyte question--I thought lager yeast liked it cold?  The
yeast-faq says #2112 ferments well to 62 F.  Is that up to 62 or down to 62?
 Was I just being impatient?  
   
I will now humbly bow before the monitor and await enlightenment from the
masters ;)

TIA
Al Clement
CClayworks at aol.com

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Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 13:26:35 -0500 (EST)
From: TEX28 at aol.com
Subject: Belgian Wit

Posting Recipes on HBD? What a refreshing idea! 
Somebody had stated that they were 'bored' with what they had been brewing.
Tried a Belgian Wit lately? This brew came out silky smooth with just a hint
of orange & corriander more in the aroma & finish than in the flavor. Very
refreshing.

Belgian Wit
5# Belgium 2-Row
4# Malted Wheat
 .5# Flaked Oats
1 oz. Hallertauer H. 3.5%
      (60 min. boil)
1 oz. Saaz 3.1%
      (1/2 oz. last 15 Min. & 1/2 oz. after boil)
2 tsp. crushed corriander seed
1/2 oz. Bitter Curacao Orange
Y.L. W-52 Belgium Wheat (24 hr. starter)

2 step infusion mash -
122F for 30 min.
158F for 60 min.
Mashout at 168F
60 min. boil
Add half of corriander & orange last 10 min. of boil &
half dryhopped in secondary (1 wk.)






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Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 11:58:14 -0700
From: Jeff Handley & Gene Almquist <homebrew at infomagic.com>
Subject: Brew-Ski '97 (Homebrewing Competition)

Just a quick reminder...
The 1997 Brew-Ski Homebrewing Competition held on February 22 at the Arizona
Snowbowl is only a few weeks away. This BJCP/AHA sanctioned competition is
open to all brewers. Refer to The AHA '97 guidelines for entry information.
With every beer entered you will receive a lift ticket on the day of the
event for $15.00. Entrys must be received by Feb. 19th. If you need info
please e-mail us outpost@ homebrewers.com.


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Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 12:35:11 +0000
From: spankstr at pe.net
Subject: Filtering Flattus

Hello out there!

I have what may be a stupid question, but here  goes anyway.  I have 
been extract brewing for close to two years now, with much of my 
product being consumed by me.  I have never really had a problem with 
gas and bloating until my last two batches.  It's really bad!  I have 
tried the gas-x, etc., but find no relief.  I have read that the 
yeast ferments substances in your bowels, thus causing the extra 
wind.  Would filtering the beer help in this situation?  If so, what 
size (microns) would be the best?  Has anyone out there fooled around 
with Diatomacious Earth filtration?  I was wondering how D.E. would 
work.  I have a DE filter on my pool, and have a endless supply of 
DE (and it's cheap).  I can't bear the thought of having to give up 
my brew for a commercial beer just because the wife doesn't wan't to 
sleep in the same room with me anymore, although I have thought of 
giving up the wife too but, considered that too expensive.

Please help and thanks in advance,

Tim (spankstr at pe.net)

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Date: 01 Feb 97 14:50:23 EST
From: "David R. Burley" <103164.3202 at CompuServe.COM>
Subject: CO2 purge

Brewsters:

Val Lipscomb asks a question I asked myself many times, especially when purging
cornies:

> For my question of the day-I always purge my 5 gallon carboy with CO2
> when I rack to secondary. I've always used 15 PSI for about a minute.
> Is that enough?? Am I wasting my time and CO2?

Here's how I answered it for my needs:

Psi is unimportant.  Volume of CO2 per unit time X time is what is important.
The real question is, "How many volumes of CO2 do I need for a given container
volume?"  You can determine your volume for your equipment by taking a 3 or 4
liter botte full of water. Invert it in a sink or large bowl of water. Put your
gas tube in the neck and turn on your CO2 and measure how long it takes to empty
the bottle of the water.  This will give you the gas flow rate.

Assume that your gas flows at the rate of 1 liter per second on your particular
settings.  A five gallon carboy is 20 liters.  Assume that at any instance the
gases are perfectly mixed, the CO2 is going in the bottom and pushing out the
current mixture ( not quite true, but 5 gallons is a small volume and the gases
are turbulent) If the carboy or cornie is open to the atmosphere, at the end of
1 second the mixture of gases will be 19 liters of air and 1 liter of CO2, At
the end of 2 seconds it will be 19 X (19/20) air and 19 X (1/20) + 1 liter of
CO2, etc. Air is 20% oxygen as you know. 

If you do this calculation as a method of approximation you find that once you
have pumped in 100 liters (5 carboy volumes)  of CO2, the oxygen content in the
gas is about 1000 ppm.  This is about a minute and a half of purging at 1 liter
of CO2 per second. If you rack the beer into the bottom of the carboy without
splashing and let it push the gas out you will have very little oxygen in your
beer.

To give you an idea of the curve shape:

CO2 - liters       Oxygen - 1000 ppms     Container Volumes
0                               200                                  0
10                             120                                  0.5
20                               68                                  1
40                               24                                  2

60                                 8.8                               3 
80                                 3.6                               4
100                               1.1                               5

Using the right hand column makes this a useful table for all size containers if
the above assumptions are applicable.

This is important when racking to cornies if you are going to force carbonate
cleared beer or when moving beer into a cornie after filtration, since the  beer
is at its most sensitive to oxygen with no yeast around to protect it.

However,when I rack into my secondary, my beer is still fermenting and I do not
bother to purge at this point, since the combination of dissolved CO2 being
released and an actively fermenting yeast population will prevent the oxygen
from doing damage. In this case, I don't think you need to bother purging your
carboy.  I do, however, minimize splashing by racking into the bottom of the
carboy.

Keep on brewin'


Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3202 at compuserve.com
Voice e-mail OK
       


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