HOMEBREW Digest #2341 Sun 09 February 1997

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				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Plate heat exchanger ("Lorena Barquin Sanchez")
  MgSO4 is not bitter enough!/skunking/HBD split (korz)
  bitter wort/aeration during fermentation (korz)
  Wort Canning, I had no idea. (Rory Stenerson)
  skunking/flux removal (Dave Riedel)
  Question about hop (Jorge Blasig - IQ)
  1999 U.S.Open homebrew competition announcement ("Keith Royster")
  Brew pots (Harlan Bauer)
  Beer engines (Harlan Bauer)
  Rhysomes for HB in CA (XKCHRISTIAN)
  Re:Bavarian Weizen (Jim Bentson)
  re: home malting (Rscholz)
  Lagering in Cornies (Rich Hampo)
  False bottom for SS keg mas ("DICK KUZARA")
  Re: Home malting, part 1 (Jeff Renner)
  Wyeast Scottish, smoke, Barleywine /Belgian Ale recipe ("MASSIMO FARAGGI")
  Canning wort (Bob McCowan)
  Pro/Am Homebrew beer tasting (CHUCK HUDSON HOMEBREW HAVEN)
  Barleywine (Cuchulain Libby)
  Priming, flatulence ("David R. Burley")
  Pumpkin Beer ("C&S Peterson")
  Strawberry Beer ("C&S Peterson")
  Re: "dropping" and British ales (and FWH) (Jeff Renner)
  Beer Yeast Bread (MaltyDog)
  mash tuns/British pale ale malt (Harlan Bauer)
  Re: canning wort ("Paul Kensler")
  Re: canning wort (David Hammond)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 18:35:40 -0400 From: "Lorena Barquin Sanchez" <mbarquin at Telcel.Net.VE> Subject: Plate heat exchanger Date: Feb.06,1997 From: Lorenzo Barquin <mbarquin at telcel.net.ve> Subject:Plate Heat Exchanger Though I have been homebrewing for 4 years, I have only recently subscribed to HBD, therefore I don't know if my request has been answered before, however I appreciate the patience and help of all of you. I have put together a RIMS system using only SS for all of its parts. I am really trying to make an extraordinary beer (I believe we all are trying to do the same). My problem is that I don't really want to cool my wort using the technique of a copper coil for either immersion or in the inside of a counterflow heat exchanger. Using a SS coil is the next possibility but I would require 7 times more surface area than using copper, which turns out to be a lot of feet in length. I once read about a homemade plate heat exchanger. Does anyone have prints or does anyone know who makes one that can cool 1/2 bbl in less than 10 min. using ice bath cooled water? Thks Lorenzo Barquin Maracay, Venezuela Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 16:37:41 -0600 (CST) From: korz at xnet.com Subject: MgSO4 is not bitter enough!/skunking/HBD split Dave writes: >>Dave writes: >>>>" Finally, let's do a reality check on our posts before we jump all over Al, >Actually, Al, you said this about yourself when you finished presenting your >Epsom Salts taste experiment on water - not beer.. Apparently, you don't understand my point. I said (read my post again!) that the bitternes of Epsom Salts (MgSO4) themselves are not enough to increase the bitterness noticeably. Tasting MgSO4 in water was simply a test of the bitterness of the salt, not how much they would change the *percieved* bitterness of the beer. My whole point is that just like CALCIUM sulphate increases the bitterness of beer and as sulphuric acid increases the bitterness of beer, so will MgSO4, but by the action of the sulphate on the *perceived* bitterness of the beer. Suphates accentuate the bitterness of the hops! MgSO4 *is* bitter, but it is not bitter *enough* to change the bitterness of the beer if it didn't have any hops in it! >Al said: >> Any homebrewing book will tell >> you that it's the sulphate. >I say: > >Apparently the sea salt industry disagrees with this as a recent HBDer >commentedthat the industry tries to remove the magnesium since >it gives the table salt a >bitter taste. [How Dave gets by with 100+ character lines, I don't know...] I never, ever contested the fact that MgSO4 is bitter... just that it is not bitter *enough* to account for the bitterness increase it provides. >A very recent book (1996, Storey) by Lee W. Janson called "Brew Chem 101" says >on page 15 the following: <snip> >Dr. Janson holds a PhD in biological sciences and biochemistry, is a homebrewer >and a certified beer judge. I have read some things in HBD quoted from that book in the past, but cannot find them because I can't reach Spencer's search engine and The Brewery's HBD search engine rejects "Brew Chem 101." I recall that there was at least one glaring error posted that referenced that book. >Does anybody remember if Miller HIgh Life, when it was the "Champagne >of BottledBeers" and came in clear glass bottles, was skunked? I wasn't >tuned into this >fault at this time , so can't comment, but don't remember it being that way. I don't recall either, but currntly Miller uses a processed hop extract (except for the "Miller Beer") which is immune to skunking. This is how they can get away with clear bottles. *** Ron writes: >Why not have an extract HBD and an all grain HBD. Remember that everthing in the boil, fermentation, bottle, and keg is the same for both all-grain and extract. Presumably some people would post to both when they have a kegging question. This would irritate the readers who subscribe to both digests. What about all the great ideas posted on the extract digest regarding filtration? Don't the all-grain brewers want to read these ideas? Similarly with the comments on bottle-conditioning posted only to the all-grain HBD. The extract HBD readers miss out, no? As I said before... some people are going to be bored by some of the questions and answers if there is a single HBD. I think that skipping over what you already know or don't think you need to know yet is the best way to assure that we all contribute and we'll all learn. Incidentally, the ester stuff from Steve was WAY over my head although I saved it in a file for the future when perhaps I *will* understand it. Al. Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL korz at xnet.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 16:39:35 -0600 (CST) From: korz at xnet.com Subject: bitter wort/aeration during fermentation >George writes: Al K. writes that if wort tastes too bitter prior to fermentation, then the beer will be too bitter because there will be less sugar balancing that bitterness. This is contrary to my experience. I find that freshly bittered wort is deeply and harshly bitter, and that the bitterness is reduced and smoother after fermentation. This makes no sense if only considering the balancing sweetness of the wort sugars, but does make sense when factoring in the fact that yeast activity reduces hop bitterness (by what mechanism, though?). Drat... I wasn't clear again. Spencer called me on this one privately, so in the interest of saving my fingers from further carpal tunnel damage, I'll just quote my response to him: Yes, fine, but there's also all that malt which is unfermented to balance the bitterness. I have never thought to myself "self... how bitter would this beer be if not for all this sweetness in the unfermented wort?" but I imagine that it may, indeed (as you say) be more bitter than the finished beer. Note also, that the IBUs in the unfermented wort will be FAR FAR higher than in the finshed beer... LOTS of IBUs are lost during fermentation (adsorbed by yeast, stuck to ceiling, lost to blowoff...). In fact, if you look at the archives, you will find that Glenn Tinseth found something like 42 or 45% utilization after the boil. This drops down to something like 20 to 30% by the end of fermentation. I've seen the viewgraphs from a talk by Bob Foster from Coors at Seibel who found something similar. My point was, however, that with all that malt flavour to balance the bitterness, if the bitterness is STILL unbearable (consider that you can put 80IBUs in a 1.030FG Imperial Stout and it will taste malty, not bitter, in balance), then you *may* have a problem. Recall that I did urge him to forge ahead and try it anyway. I'm afraid that I didn't phrase the "aging" part of the post well -- it sounds like I want him to try a minimum of a year -- what I meant was try a bottle every few months and don't *give up* for more than a year. *** >Charles writes: >Some time ago, there was a brief discussion on this list about the >practice of "dropping" British ales, as recommended by Wheeler and >Protz. Dropping involves transferring the ale from primary to secondary >after only about a day or two of active fermentation. In the transfer, >the fermenting ale is dropped from the siphon from a height of several >feet, in order to provide some aeration. The homebrewers who tried this >said that it produced noticeably smoother, rounder beers, and also >seemed to accentuate the hop character of the beers. My question is >this: how do these beers fare over the long haul -- do they degrade >more rapidly than non-dropped beers due to the infusion of oxygen? I >guess another question is whether others of you have tried this -- if >you have, how did you like the results, both short-term and long-term? I have four comments on this. Firstly, read what Wheeler wrote again... he said that aeration was *optional*. The key to the dropping method is to leave the dregs and the dirty head in the primary and remove the fermenting beer from in between the two. Aeration is *sometimes* done along with this. Secondly, "smoother, rounder..." *could* simply be just "less bitter." In the experiment that I wrote up in Brewing Techniques ("When Fermentation Raises It's Dirty Head") I pointed out that none of the tasters (including some very highly-experienced BJCP judges) noted more harshness in the non-blowoff batch. The blowoff method of fermentation does very much the same thing regarding the dirty head (the brown part of the kraeusen). Note that above I say "*could*" because there is the possibility that removing the beer from the hot and cold break could reduce the production of higher alcohols which can reduce roughness. Thirdly, accentuating the hop character could simply be because the roused yeast fermented the beer more compleatly (OE, but I like it) than the same yeast unroused. This is definitely the case with yeasts like Wyeast #1968 and the Samuel Smith's yeast from The Yeast Culture Kit Co. Finally, I have tasted a number of beers made both by homebrewers and comercially in which there has been considerable aeration during fermentation. None of the beers that I can recall suffered from the aeration in the short-term, other than some being quite high in diacetyl (which would certainly be a fault in most lagers and some judges dislike exceedingly buttery ales, too). On the other hand, I did taste an older beer that was aerated during fermentation and the aldehydes in it were unmistakable. The beer was almost undrinkable. The beer was Samuel Smith's Oatmeal Stout. All the Samuel Smith's ales are aerated during fermentation and while most of the bottles of these wonderful beers have been excellent, this one sixpack (old, presumably), was very high in aldehydes (morning after air-pumped kegger beer) aromas and flavours. Al. Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL korz at xnet.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 17:53:14 -0500 From: Rory Stenerson <71762.1664 at compuserve.com> Subject: Wort Canning, I had no idea. Greetings, I've been following the scary thread about wort canning. Scott Murman's comments are quite convincing. Would the procedure laid out in Charlie Papazian's TNCJHB about preparing beer bottles of wort to be later used as starters be subject to the Botulism risk? I used his procedure that was laid out on pages 276-279. If I'm at risk I'll dump them out since I definitely don't have a death wish. Life is good! Cheers, and happy brewing everyone. Rory Stenerson, State College Underground Malsters, (S.C.U.M.), Board Member Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 15:13:48 -0800 (PST) From: Dave Riedel <RIEDEL at ios.bc.ca> Subject: skunking/flux removal First of all, three cheers to Pat and Karl for the revival of the 'old' digest. - ------ Discussion has been on-going of late regarding skunked beer. We heard the merits of clear to green to brown bottles, but what about cans? Everyone always talks about un-skunked Pilsner Urquell being unavailable in North America in the pale green glass bottle, but I can get it in *cans*. Does anyone know how imported canned PU (and Heineken for that matter) compare to the real thing? - ------ Recently, I have been preparing my all-grain set up. This has involved some soldering. I've been using lead-free solder, but I'm concerned about removing the flux which is labelled as highly toxic. What's a good way of ensuring its removal? I soaked the parts in vinegar for about 30 mins... would that be adequate? cheers, Dave Riedel, Victoria, BC, Canada Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 21:39:29 -0300 (GMT-0300) From: Jorge Blasig - IQ <gisalb at elmer.fing.edu.uy> Subject: Question about hop Dear friends, I would appreciate if any of you can send me information about a certain hop known by the name of Strickle-Bract or something similar. I need alpha acid content, whether it should be used for aroma, flavor or bitterness, origin, etc. Any comment will be welcomed. Thanks. Jorge Blasig Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 22:07:22 +0500 From: "Keith Royster" <keith.royster at pex.net> Subject: 1999 U.S.Open homebrew competition announcement This is to announce the: 1997 U.S.OPEN AHA Recognized Homebrew Competition Sponsored by the Carolina BrewMasters CALL FOR ENTRIES!!! April 20th, 1996 Charlotte, NC For more information, contact us at: Web http://dezines.com/ at your.service/cbm/ site contains printable entry forms, etc. Comp. c/o Ed Gaston Organizer 4124 Johnston Oehler Rd. Charlotte, NC 28269 Comp. Co- Keith Royster Organizer email: keith.royster at pex.net phone: (704) 663-1098 (evenings) Interested in Judging? Contact: Bruno Wichnoski email: bruhaus at uncc.campus.mci.net phone (day): 704.375.9112 phone (eve): 704.597.5782 OR Roman Davis email: zymurgist at aol.com phone (day): 704.375.9112 phone (eve): 704.362.1688 Keith Royster - Mooresville, North Carolina "Where if the kudzu don't gitcha, the Baptists will!" mailto:keith.royster at pex.net http://dezines.com/ at your.service - at your.service http://dezines.com/ at your.service/cbm -Carolina BrewMasters http://dezines.com/ at your.service/RIMS -My RIMS page, rated COOL! by the Brewery Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 21:10:29 -0600 From: blacksab at midwest.net (Harlan Bauer) Subject: Brew pots Frosty asks the following: >I am looking for a new brew pot...I want to get a new 8-10 gallon SS pot but I >have a few questions: >1) How much. I read about some on the hoptech homepage. They had a >Vollrath 38.5 qt (9.6 gal) for $170. This is kind of expensive, but I do >want quality. This will last a long time. (well, it should). Any other >suggestions? Vollrath are the best. Period. But a converted keg is cheaper. >2) Can I heat this new pot (whatever it is) on the stove. I have a >standard gas stove? I do not want to but a propage "burner" just to heat >this sucker unless I have to. I think you'll have a hard time using a keg on the stove. The Vollrath will work, but non-commercial type stoves really don't have the BTU's. I'd suggest using a Superb burner and use the gas source on your stove to supply the burner. These burners come equipped with an LP orifice--if you have natural gas, simply change the orifice. Have someone tap into the gas line (basement, near stove, where-ever) and place a T with a shutoff valve and a male flare fitting. Just "plug" in the stove whenever you want to use it. >3) How easy is it to convert this to the easymash system. I have been >reading the threads about drilling stainless, and it doesn't seem to >hard...*swallow* It will be scary if I pay > $150 for a brewpot. Easy! But this is one of the advantages of using a keg--if you mess up, or decide later that you think you've found a better method, the costs are less with a keg. If you ultimately like what you've made, THEN you can transfer the design to the Vollrath. >4) Do you ever take out the easymasher. Is is now a permenant part of >your brewpot? What if you want to go back and do a quickie extract batch? >Does it just sit in there doing no harm? I remove my EM after every brew for cleaning (I have one in my brew kettle and my mash tun). Everything on my system is 3/8-in flare fittings and copper tubing, so removal is a snap. >5) Is the easymasher hard to clean. No, it's a dream. >6) What about hops. Do they get stuck down there? Pellets? I always use whole hops and they form a nice filterbed to filter out the hot break. I know nothing about pellets. Check out some of the web pages out there on building 3-tier systems. Even if you don't want to go that big, you'll gather some good ideas from what other people have done. Those of us that have made them have all made mistakes--learn from our mistakes. You'll make plenty of your own ;-) Scott Kaczorowski (http://users.deltanet.com/~kacz) has a nice page. He explains the process very cogently. There are some links to 2-tier systems as well, and links to RIMS if you want to go that route (be sure to hit the link to Dion Hollenbeck's page). Hope this helps, Harlan ********************************************************************* * * * Harlan Bauer ...malt does more than Milton can * * Carbondale, IL To justify God's ways to man. * * <blacksab at midwest.net> --A.E. Houseman * * * ********************************************************************* Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 21:13:40 -0600 From: blacksab at midwest.net (Harlan Bauer) Subject: Beer engines Chas Peterson wrote: >I will be going to London in a few weeks on business, and am hoping to pick up >a beer engine or two while I am there. My understanding is that the pubs were >recently required to change out their beer engines (some had brass parts), and >that many are simply lying around in cellars waiting to be bought by American >homebrewers longing to infect their brains with lead. :-) > >Does anyone out there know of someone I can contact in the London area that >might have a few of these "banned" engines? Try Mike Newton at Kooltech Head Office 433-437 Hillington Road Hillington Industrial Estate Glasgow G52 4BL Kooltech Developments Ltd. Bank Chambers Hathersage Sheffield S30 1BB tel: +44(0)1433 651121 or, Robin Cooke at Filton Brewery Products, Ltd. Little Chawbrook Chawbrook Road Eastbourne E. Sussex BN22 8HB tel: 01321 416948 I met them both at the Real Ale festival last fall at Goose Island in Chicago. Nice fellows, both. (usual disclaimer...) TTYL, Harlan ********************************************************************* * * * Harlan Bauer ...malt does more than Milton can * * Carbondale, IL To justify God's ways to man. * * <blacksab at midwest.net> --A.E. Houseman * * * ********************************************************************* Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 20:08:51 -0800 (PST) From: XKCHRISTIAN at ccvax.fullerton.edu Subject: Rhysomes for HB in CA Hi Three years ago I planted some Cascade and Perle hops. They took off big time. In fact I have had to pull a few of the hills out. Needless to say I have a great supply of rhysomes! If you are in Orange County CA and would like to share some HB for some rhysomes, let me know ASAP. If you want to give me a call, you can reach me at 714 638-3201 I would also like to say thanks to Pat for giving the HBD a new home! Long the the HBD! Keith XKCHRISTIAN at FULLERTON.EDU The brewer who can do it in the dark -) PS Please call or email me directly I don't get to read the HBD until the weekends usually. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 23:10:39 -0500 From: Jim Bentson <jbentson at htp.net> Subject: Re:Bavarian Weizen Gavin Scarman recently wrote >I have been trying to brew a true to style bavarian weizen ( my whole >reason for getting back into homebrewing). >snip< > Has anyone any hope to offer me in Wyeast weihenstephan? Gavin I worked in a micro brewery this summer where they made a fantastic Hefe Weissbier. We used the Wyeast weihenstephan yeast (3068) that you asked about so I can offer you not only hope but probable expectation of a great tasting beer. This yeast is a VERYstrong fermenter and you should probably consider using a blow off tube and a glass fermenter for your primary otherwise sand bags would be appropriate. The Wyeast suggested temperature for this one is 64-70 deg F with 68 deg F given as the preferred value BTW the beer at the brewery was made with a step infusion rather than a decoction. Still tasted phenomenal. - -- Registered ICC User check out http://www.usefulware.com/~jfoltz Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 04:58:07 -0500 (EST) From: Rscholz at aol.com Subject: re: home malting Guy Gregory in his attempt at home malting ( I applaud the effort ) had some problems with low yields from the malt. One thing I suggest is get a good crush to evaluate your malting technique without the added effect of variable grinds. Two: I think your drying phase kilning was too hot, DeClerck states that the temp should be about 40-45C(104-113F, use an in oven thermometer - temp control on the oven dial can be very inaccurate and try to put it in the malt) After 24 hours, slowly in a long ramp up(15hours) , raise the temp to 80C(176F) for 5 hours. Slightly higher to get some color in the malt. The thing he really says to monitor is the moisture of the malt, if it's not dry(<10%) before it gets to 50C(122F) the enzymic activity or the malt will become vitreous and drastically reduce the diastatic ability of the malt. Hope this helps and keep us informed with your progress. Richard l scholz bkyln ny Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 06:40:35 -0500 From: rhampo at ford.com (Rich Hampo) Subject: Lagering in Cornies Hi all, I'm looking to rack my dortmunder from the secondary to a corny for lagering in my beer fridge (The carboy won't fit). I don't have any airlock for the keg, so I will have to vent it manually. How often will I need to release the pressure and vent the fumes, etc that lagering is supposed to produce? Should I purge the headspace with fresh CO2 each time or is this unnecessary? Anecdotal or theoretical evidence is welcome. Thanks! Richard Hampo H&H Brewing Ltd. Return to table of contents
Date: 7 Feb 1997 06:56:13 U From: "DICK KUZARA" <DICK_KUZARA at itd.sterling.com> Subject: False bottom for SS keg mas Subject: Time: 6:53 OFFICE MEMO False bottom for SS keg mash tun Date: 2/07/97 Jim Elden writes: <I am using a SS screen that was purchased from a local homebrew shop at an exorbitant price. The screen is supported by 8 2x1/4" SS bolts welded around the converted keg. Problem is, there is a small gap, maybe 1/4" between the edge of the screen and the inside of the keg, enough for *too much* grain to escape and disturb my sense of order and neatness, not to mention clog up the pump.> As a suggestion, cut a piece of 3/8 ID tubing to exactly fit the inside diameter. Use a short 3/8 OD dowel to connect the tubing ends. So the tubing won't float, fill with sand and Clorox/water mixture and seal the dowel joint with silicon glue. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 08:35:14 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Re: Home malting, part 1 IN Homebrew Digest #2338, "Gregory, Guy J." <GGRE461 at ecy.wa.gov> described his home malting procedure which resulted in a disappointing 10 points per pound per gallon, and asks >Anybody want to tell me what went wrong? Should I go for a kilning step? > Is my crush that bad? Or maybe it's the variety? Will I bird hunt this >fall? I have malted a few batches of ordinary 6-row feed barley. I envy you your uniform, plump 2-row. Nonetheless, I had good luck with a great malty aroma and flavor in my Classic American Pilsner that I made from it. Your prodedure is very similar to mine up to the drying stage. I wonder if your drying method may have exposed the malt to too high a temperature and degraded the enzymes. I know that they are very heat sensitive when wet. Maybe the oven was really hotter than 135F? I think also that a kilning step would produce a maltier aroma and taste. It did for me. I dry my malt in the clothes dryer tied up *SECURELY* in a strong cloth bag. I did it once in an old pillow case and the seam opened up just a 1/2 inch or so - enough to spill out a pond or two of malt during the drying process. I lost spousal approval points on that, especially since she was rather skeptical beforehand anyway. It makes a terrible racket, but it dries the malt nicely and removes the rootlets so they can be sifted out later using the drying/kilning screen. A strange thing happened during drying the last time. I got a kind of varhish on the interior of the dryer and on the bag. I think it was rootlet juices that oozed out of the bag when the rootlets were crushed in the tumbling, which then dried in a shiney coating on the dryer drum. After drying, I kilned the malt, ending with a temperature of 195F, which, according to an article I read somewhere (Z?) would give a Dortmunder malt color. I wanted a bit of color since I was brewing a Classic (post-prohibition) American Pilsner with 22% corn, and wanted some color. I got about 26 ppg; usually I get about 32 with 22% corn, which has a higher yield than malt, so obviously I am not as efficient a maltster as Briess. Good luck Jeff -=-=-=-=- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 05:43:20 -0800 (PST) From: "MASSIMO FARAGGI" <maxfarag at hotmail.com> Subject: Wyeast Scottish, smoke, Barleywine /Belgian Ale recipe Hi Al(l), I was about to post this privately to Al K who was interested in the subject "Wyeast 1728 AND smoke", but as I see some recent posts about Barleywine yeasts and an info request about Wyeast Scottish #1728 I hope this could be of some interest. I tasted recently my barleywine which I brewed in November with this yeast. I couldn't detect any smokey flavour. It is a strong and flavourful brew so it could be more difficult to detect than in a "cleaner" beer. As I ferment at warm temperatures, maybe the key to smokey flavour is areation as somebody (Al?) suggested, or some other factor. The beer was about 1098 OG.:Malt Extract, 12% Crystal, just a little sugar+honey; N.Brewer and Goldings hops to about 60 BU. Areation was only by stirring and rousing. Pitched directly on the yeast cake of a previous 1060 beer. Fermentation at about 69-70F was very fast, in 2-3 days was almost finished to 1022. (Too fast, too warm? Is "self-heating" due to fermentation important also when brewing small - 2,5Gal. - batches with higher Surface/Volume ratios?) Bottled after 8 days; aging in bottles at 50F (first week at 70F). Tasted after 2,5 months the beer is good (maybe not "great") IMHO, some slightly.. "harsch" - don't know the right english word - taste but already better than 1 month ago so I think it's improving with age; it's strong but balanced. And, to my surprise, it's perfectly (for the style) carbonated naturally; I just primed it the usual way, no Krausen nor force-carbonation. Apart from smokiness/no-smokiness, I liked this yeast (my first and only liquid up to now) and I am trying also other methods to stretch its use; I saved some from the first brew in a mason jar and in bottles and made two other scotch-style beer (still to taste, but no smoke I think). The Biere de Garde (first brew with this yeast) has some fruity flavours (my wife which has a better nose than mine said "framboise" - no banana). - --------------------------------------- I read in #2339 that B. Roullett (aka Badger) was interested in extract recipes for belgian ales. I am also interested in that, I was tempted to try something close to a Rochefort 10 (or 8), so maybe suggestions could be posted to the digest if you think this subject could be of some general interest. Right about Rochefort 10, is it possible, as I read, that such a dark ale is made just by Munich and/or Vienna malts + dark candy sugars? Could I add some chocolate malt also, (I use light malt extraxt) or would it be out-of-style? TIA & Cheers Massimo Faraggi GENOVA - ITALY maxfarag at hotmail.com - --------------------------------------------------------- Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - --------------------------------------------------------- Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 09:41:59 -0500 From: Bob McCowan <bob.mccowan at bmd.cpii.com> Subject: Canning wort >Just pondering here. I've heard it oft-said that there are no known >pathogens in beer. Supposing that the only reason you're canning wort is to >cultivate a yeast starter to make beer. If the yeast does its thing and beer >is made, wouldn't that kill any botulism baddies? > Wort is not beer, the pH is higher, and the alcohol is lower. The problem with botulism is not the bacteria themselves, but the toxins they produce. However, I thought that boiling destroyed the botulism toxins, so maybe if you boiled and cooled your canned wort just before using it in a starter you would be OK. Bob - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob McCowan ATG/Receiver-Protector voice: (508)-922-6000 x208 CPI BMD fax: (508)-922-8914 Beverly, MA 01915 e-mail: bob.mccowan at bmd.cpii.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 7:03:16 -0700 (MST) From: CHUCK HUDSON HOMEBREW HAVEN <CHUDSON at mozart.unm.edu> Subject: Pro/Am Homebrew beer tasting Morning folks; On May 3 1997 Homebrew Haven and The Albuquerque Press Club is holding a Beer tasting and contest. This is open to all homebrewers and Micro brews for more info please give me a ring at 505-352-9635 or e-mail me at chudson at mozart.unm.edu. Our address is 5300 Sequoia Rd. NW Ste D Albuquerque NM 87120. I will post more info as it becomes available. Thanks Chuck Hudson Owner and Head Brewer at: Homebrew Haven Hombrew supplies and Brew on Premise Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 01:49:40 -0600 From: Cuchulain Libby <hogan at connecti.com> Subject: Barleywine Greetings All, I recently bought a second secondary and was considering brewing a BW. I use a 5gal Gott and am wondering if anyone has any experience mashing in serial? I figure I can comfortably mash 11.5# at a time. Perhaps do a 3gal no sparge the first time, then sparge the second for a total of ~6.5gals. Is there any danger to letting the first batch sit around while the second mashes? Cogitatingly Yours, Cuchulain Return to table of contents
Date: 07 Feb 97 09:34:51 EST From: "David R. Burley" <103164.3202 at CompuServe.COM> Subject: Priming, flatulence Brewsters: Daniel Louis Lanicek has a problem with carbonation 1) Usually this problem arises when the beer has cleared in the secondary and/or the yeast have gone dormant. Solution: make up a priming (or kraeusen) starter, about 12 hours before the bottling, from the yeast on the bottom of the secondary by siphoning a small quantity from the bottom. Bottle when you see foam on the starter. I usually make up the starter from extract and including my priming sugar to make sure the yeast is acclimated, but if that worries you, mix the priming sugar in later. 2) Temperature can be a problem, especialy with ale yeasts. To find out, put a thermometer into a beer bottle with water in it, in the same place as your storage area for carbonation. You will probably be surprised. Ale yeasts don't like it below about 65F when carbonating. Most floors are much cooler, despite what the shoulder height temperature is. 3) If UNDERcarbonation is a problem,then increasing the sugar to as much as 10 Oz per 5 gallon batch may be just what you need. I use this amount for most of my bottled beers. Try it, you may like it. You may produce some "out-of-style" beers this way, but if you like it, hey, how many times have the beer police from the BJCP shown up at your house? I have used 10 oz per 5 gallons for decades and find it to be appropriate for many beers and conversely have found the 4 oz/5 gallon I find recommended here and elsewhere to be inappropriately low. 4) To rescue UNDERcarbonated beers, cool them down to as cold as possible, take out some beer and add the krausen starter plus additional priming sugar and recap. Put in a warm area for two weeks. 5) To rescue UNcarbonated beers, first I would just move them to a warmer spot and see if that helps. If not see 4). 6)Candidates for 4) would include beers that have been primed for more than a month and shown no change, even at warmer temperatures. - -------------------------------------------------------------- As far as homebrew putting more wind in your sails or elsewhere goes, I doubt if it is the yeast fermenting in your gut that causes it. If the yeast couldn't ferment the sugars in your beer why would it do it in your gut? Yes, it is true that enzymes in your digestive system can break these down. It is probably true that homebrew has a higher unfermentable sugar and protein content than commercial beer. Fermentation of this by adapted, resident flora and fauna in the gut, just like bean carbohydrates and proteins or meat residue following excessive meat consumption, produces this flatulence. - -------------------------------------------------------------- On *that* note.... Keep on brewin' Dave Burley Kinnelon, NJ 07405 103164.3202 at compuserve.com Voice e-mail OK Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 97 09:45:16 UT From: "C&S Peterson" <CNS_PETERSON at msn.com> Subject: Pumpkin Beer HBDers - I am studying up on pumpkin beers and would like some advice from those that have brewed such beasts. I am intent on using canned pumpkin pack. Most receipes call for using this in the mash, and then laudering normally. I was wondering, do you really need to add the pumpkin to the mash? Are there a significant number of starches in the pumkin pack? Here's my plan to date: I will add one can of pumpkin pack during the mash, and sparge/lauder/boil/ferment normally. Nearing the end of the secondary fermentation, I want to give the beer a pumpkin aroma/flavor boost, so I will mash another can of pumpkin pack with either enzyme powder or a bag of Klages, remove the grains (if used), boil, cool and then add to the finishing secondary. (If there are no signifiant starches in the pumpkin pack, I will simply omit the mashing process). Any comments on this procedure from those that have dared to brew with the giant squash? TIA, Chas Peterson Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 97 09:36:19 UT From: "C&S Peterson" <CNS_PETERSON at msn.com> Subject: Strawberry Beer HBDers- This is an email for Charlie Burns (Charlie -- I know you requested private email, but I deleted the HBD issue, forgetting to write down your email address). Regarding your low FG on your strawberry ale, I had a similar expericence with one a few years ago. It finished at 0.999 after I added the berries to the secondary. My guess is that you'll get more water out of the berries than sugar. This is what I think dropped my SG so low. But I did not get the volcanic fermentation you'd expect from adding fruit to beer in the secondary (these volcanic reactions I have had with other berries such as raspberry and blackberry). >From my experience, I think the low gravity will actually help you a bit. Strawberries have a very delicate flavor in beer; a higher finishing OG would probably mask that wonderful sweet/sour flavor they bring, not to mention their aroma. I ended up adding some lactose to my strawberry beer for body and it was still a bit to thin for my taste. I'd suggest adding some malto-dextrin or lactose to your beer as well, maybe up to a pound per 5 Gals. And don't forget to age that sucker -- at least 8 mos IMHO. I found that strawberries have a somewhat rough character in the early stages of bottle conditioning, but smooths after 6 mos or so. [FWIW, the strawberry beer I mentioned did very well in the '96 AHA NHC -- you can find its recipe in the 96 Zymurgy special issue.] a data point from one berry lover to another, Chas Peterson Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 09:38:38 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Re: "dropping" and British ales (and FWH) In Homebrew Digest #2338 Charles Epp <chuckepp at ukans.edu> asked about "dropped" beers: >how do these beers fare over the long haul -- do they degrade >more rapidly than non-dropped beers due to the infusion of oxygen? I >guess another question is whether others of you have tried this -- if >you have, how did you like the results, both short-term and long-term? Dropping has become SOP for me with my stock bitter. It produces different results with different yeasts. An additional advantage to dropping is that the bottom crop of yeast from the second fermenter is really clean. My standard yeast, more or less, is NCYC 1187 (YCKCo A10), which is a very flocculant yeast, but I have done it with several YeastLab yeasts. 1187 seems to produce more fruity esters with dropping. Ringwood (YL A06?), a top cropper, produces even more diacetyl than otherwise, but seems to really benefit given its high O2 needs. I have kept dropped beers many months with absolutely no trouble. I think that if you drop the beers at high kraeusen, the yeast will assimilate all of the O2 with no detrimental effects to the beer. BTW, another "new" procedure that has become SOP for me with British ales, where it is not traditional, is first wort hopping (FWH). This works beautifully with East Kent Goldings. I even did it with Columbus hops in an American variation of the bitter, where the FWH was also all of my bittering hops. That is, I added the Columbus to the first wort, and added no additional hops for bitterness per se, since Columbus has such high alpha acid. Ordinarily, one would FWH only with the best finishing quality hops, but this worked fine. The hop flavor is great. Jeff -=-=-=-=- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 10:04:57 -0500 (EST) From: MaltyDog at aol.com Subject: Beer Yeast Bread Here's a question out of left field, but one that might provide some interesting posts: Anyone out there ever use Beer Yeast (ale or lager) for breadmaking? What kind of yeast? What kind of bread? What sort of quantity do you need for a loaf of bread? Just wondering, Bill Coleman MaltyDog at aol.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 09:13:05 -0600 From: blacksab at midwest.net (Harlan Bauer) Subject: mash tuns/British pale ale malt Tom Neary asks about the relative advantages/disadvantages of using a false bottom or a manifold in a non-recirculating mash tun. If you're not going to recirculate, you really HAVE to use some sort of manifold--a false bottom will cause scorching of the wort beneath it. Remember, it will be the heaviest portion of the sweet wort that will tend to collect below the false bottom, so aside from scorching the wort, you'll kill most of the enzymes too. I'm a big fan of the EasyMasher, but others prefer manifolds. Take a look at Scott Kaczorowski's web page for a nice set of instructions on building a manifold (http://users.deltanet.com/~kacz). Mike Marshburn asks about British Pale Ale malt. Hugh Bairds is another that I believe uses Maris Otter, and I've noticed a big difference in flavor between that and the Munton and Fison Pale Ale malt. Taste the two malt kernels side by side and you'll taste the difference. Hope this helps, Harlan ********************************************************************* * * * Harlan Bauer ...malt does more than Milton can * * Carbondale, IL To justify God's ways to man. * * <blacksab at midwest.net> --A.E. Houseman * * * ********************************************************************* Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 09:29:42 +0000 From: "Paul Kensler" <pkensler at ix.netcom.com> Subject: Re: canning wort Hal Davis asked about canned wort... Hal, I looked into this botulism issue a few months ago, and here's the short version of what I found out: Botulism is not a problem with fermenting beer because the yeast quickly create an environment unsuitable for the botulism bacteria (yeast being more prolific). Botulism bacteria cannot survive in an acidic environment (like beer), but can reproduce in unfermented wort. Also, the danger with botulism is not the bacteria themselves, but their by-product wastes, which are poisonous. So, once the poisons have been created, boiling won't solve the problem. Apparently, boiling can kill the bacteria, but cannot kill the spores that the bacteria use to reproduce. Any biologists out there that can confirm or expand on this? See you at the next NTHBA Hal, Paul Kensler Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 10:29:26 -0500 (EST) From: David Hammond <hammer at nexen.com> Subject: Re: canning wort In a previous post: > > A more important caveat is that YOU CANNOT SAFELY CAN WORT > IN A BOILING WATER BATH. > Hal Davis <davis at planolaw.com> wrote: > > Just pondering here. I've heard it oft-said that there are no > known pathogens in beer. Supposing that the only reason you're > canning wort is to cultivate a yeast starter to make beer. If > the yeast does its thing and beer is made, wouldn't that kill > any botulism baddies? > Note: I am not a toxicologist. The following is merely speculation about what I think is the difference. When you brew wort to make beer, you heat to boiling, cool to pitch, then pitch. Any contaminating bacteria and spores don't have a chance to get going before the yeast take over and ferment the wort. The environment becomes unsuitable for the bad guys to do what they do, so they don't. When you brew wort to store as a future yeast starter medium, you heat to boiling, cool, then refrigerate. If you did not boil the wort under pressure, you were unable to achieve a high enough temperature to kill certain spores, and they will simply go dormant in the wort in your refrigerator. When it is time to use the boiled, bottled wort, you take it out of the fridge and allow it to come to room temperature. In this time, the spores become active and begin doing what it is spores do, mainly multiply and produce byproducts during that process; botulism toxins in the case of the spores re- sponsible for botulism. By the time you pitch the yeast, the damage has been done. When you're making beer, it was not allowed to happen in the first place. Just my best guess. Dave Return to table of contents