HOMEBREW Digest #2342 Mon 10 February 1997

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@ brew.oeonline.com
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Re: Flood water analysishomebrew at brew.oeonline.com (Energo Ed)
  root beer (Greg Moore - SMCC BOS Hardware Engineering)
  Witbier (Kit Anderson)
  HSA on lautering (Neil Kirk)
  Wort Dilution Table (Oliver Weatherbee)
  Re: Botulism (HBD 2339) ("John R. Bowen")
  scrubbing O2 from kegs (Jeff Sturman)
  Does the amount of yeast pitched effect the apparent attenuation? (Philip DiFalco)
  Carbonating soda (Charles Rich)
  Comps and Bottle types, Mass botteling for wedding (Nathan Moore)
  Heiniken - in brown? (SW) Moore" <moorere at nassau.navy.mil>
  YL W51 Question (Doug Otto)
  Botulism in canned wort (John Wilkinson)
  Subject: Extract/partial Belgain Abbey (Kenneth D Boivin)
  Lallemand yeast/ASBC Hop analysis (Daniel S. McConnell/DSMBook)
  Gap in SS false bottom & outcome (Jim Elden)
  When to rack? (David Root)
  Gelatin/bottling (mike maag)
  Sorry to spam (but THIS is IMPORTANT!!!) (Jim Klett)
  Sanke kegs ("Michael T. Bell")
  Previous Results; Lack of Skunk (DENNIS WALTMAN)
  Botulism (Katy or Delano DuGarm)
  Just another recipe (Charles Burns)
  IBU calculation for dry-hopping (Heiner Lieth)
  The New & Much-Improved HBD (KennyEddy)
  priming (Poris)
  Home-made EM ("Michael T. Bell")
  False Bottoms/Wit/Botulism (A. J. deLange)
  White Labs Yeast Test Results (P. Edwards)
  Classic Beer Styles Series:  Brown Ale (John A. Carlson, Jr.)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 10:49:25 -0500 (EST) From: energo at fwai.org (Energo Ed) Subject: Re: Flood water analysishomebrew at brew.oeonline.com >Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 14:18:37 -0800 >From: smurman at best.com >Subject: Flood water analysis > > >Does anyone living in Northern California have any idea what our water >looks like these days, since we've had so much flooding? A friend of >mine who has a big aquarium setup, said that he suspected that they >had added a lot of chlorine to compensate. I'm planning on mashing >some pale ale malt this weekend, and I'm not sure what water treatment >to perform. > >SM To get rid of chlorine boil the water or let the water sit out for a day. Energo Ed Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 10:58:47 -0500 From: gmoore at wacko.East.Sun.COM (Greg Moore - SMCC BOS Hardware Engineering) Subject: root beer Any recipes for root beer out there? I checked the cat's meow, and they all (both) use yeast to carbonate. If I force carbonate, do I need as much sugar? Any recipes/pointers to recipes appreciated. TIA Greg gmoore at wacko.east.sun.com \\|// (o o) =========oOO==(_)==OOo=========== Please sir, may I have some more? Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 11:06:50 -0500 From: Kit Anderson <kit at maine.com> Subject: Witbier Jim Busch quipped; >Kit Anderson notes using flaked wheat for a witbier: > ><I'm sure this is a good beer but it will be truer to style substituting ><flaked wheat for the malted wheat. > >Why stop there? Use raw wheat for real authenticity. Because grining hard red winter wheat is a real pain. Then you have to gelatinize the starch. Flaked wheat is unmalted, pregelatinized, and won't turn into cement when sparging. Plus, it tastes the same. (To me, anyway.) The only reason I would grind raw wheat is to burn out the motor on my Craftsman 1/2" drill so I could return it for a new one. But I'm not that type. - --- Kit Anderson "Welcome to Northeast Texas- Bath, Maine a survival guide for Texans in New England" http://members.aol.com/garhow1/kit/index.htm Maine Beer Page http://www.maine.com/brew Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 16:13:30 GMT From: Neil Kirk <nek at sputnik.wsatkins.co.uk> Subject: HSA on lautering Hi Guys A few weeks ago I posted something on aeration and FG, and was re-educated on HSA. Thanks to all who showed me the error of my ways; now I've made myself an immersion chiller (100C to 25C in 25 min) and am paranoid about HSA (slightly preferable to AR?). So the questions are: what about HSA when running off from the mash tun? Does it cause oxidation? Does it matter? How do we avoid it? Yours, in a state of paranoia. Neil Kirk Bristol, England nekirk at wsatkins.co.uk voice e-mail OK PS. For those that need to know: White Shield is a bottle conditioned ale still brewed in the UK. White Label is a low alcohol (1% abv?) liquid, sold as a beer, but not worthy of the name. To our shame it is also made in the UK. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 12:10:35 -0500 From: oliver at triton.cms.udel.edu (Oliver Weatherbee) Subject: Wort Dilution Table After using other peoples equations with limited success, I finally took published numbers and some of my own experimental results and put together the Wort Dilution Table. Since I do partial wort boils and want to hit specific starting gravities, I use this table to tell me how much make-up water to add to my primary to get my desired gravity. Usually, because of density gradients between wort and water, it is almost impossible to get an accurate gravity measurement once water is added. But from my experiments, this table is accurate enough to use without any further gravity readings. It is available at our clubs website (URL in my .sig below) in the Brew Tips section. It is an html table which can be printed directly but quattro and excel versions are also available to download. I would be interested in other people giving it a try and letting me know how well it works for them. Prost. - -- __________________________________________________________________ Oliver Weatherbee oliver at triton.cms.udel.edu First State Brewers http://triton.cms.udel.edu/~oliver/firststate/firststate.html __________________________________________________________________ Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 11:15:53 +0000 From: "John R. Bowen" <jbowen at primary.net> Subject: Re: Botulism (HBD 2339) Hal Davis writes: >A more important caveat is that YOU CANNOT SAFELY CAN WORT > IN A BOILING WATER BATH. The risk of botulism was mentioned. Just pondering here. I've heard it oft-said that there are no known pathogens in beer. Supposing that the only reason you're canning wort is to cultivate a yeast starter to make beer. If the yeast does its thing and beer is made, wouldn't that kill any botulism baddies? Hal, I expect you will get a more authoritive response from someone else, but this is important. As understand it, it is the botulism toxin produced by the bacteria, not necessarily the bacteria itself, that is deadly. Fermentation may or may not kill the bacteria, but it will NOT destroy the toxin carried over from the starter, and a little bit goes a long way! Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 11:07:48 -0700 From: brewshop at coffey.com (Jeff Sturman) Subject: scrubbing O2 from kegs I recently spent some time at a Wyoming brewpub talking with the head brewer and I was present when he was filling some 1/2 bbl Hoff-Stevens type kegs. I was horrified to see that he wasn't purging the kegs with CO2 before filling them. What he did was fill the kegs and then shoot some CO2 through the diptube in the keg so the CO2 entered at the bottom of the keg and bubbled up through the beer. He said this would scrub most of the O2 out of the beer, which means purging the keg with CO2 before filling was not necessary. If this is true, would it also apply to home brew kegs? This brewpub naturally conditions their beers in the kegs, ie, the beer is practically flat when put into the kegs. So what say, is this guy a nut or a genius? jeff casper, wy Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 97 13:14:16 -0500 From: Philip DiFalco <sxupjd at fanniemae.com> Subject: Does the amount of yeast pitched effect the apparent attenuation? FROM HBD #2339: > There have been a few posts regarding what yeast to ferment barleywines with. > I brewed a barleywine. OG was 1.095 and it was pitched with 1-2 cups of > slurry recovered from a primary fermentation with Wyeast 1056. This finished > at 1.024.... My experience is that 1056 works just fine in high gravity worts > if sufficient yeast is pitched. I thought that pitching sufficient yeast only effected the start of fermentation (ie., a vigorous start with minimal delay). Does the amount of yeast pitched also effect the apparent attenuation (or final gravity of the beer)? Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 10:04:18 -0800 From: Charles Rich <CharlesR at saros.com> Subject: Carbonating soda IN HBD 2339 "Brander Roullett (Volt Computer)" <a-branro at MICROSOFT.com> >writes: > >>tentative procedure: dissolve in a 5 gal pot filled with water, the >>Juice, and the honey. bring near boiling, and add ginger, fruit peels, Sounds great but I wouldn't boil the honey or even come close to boiling it if you want to preserve the fine honey flavor. Bring it to 145F and hold for twenty to thirty mins to kill bacteria instead. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 11:37:41 -0700 (MST) From: Nathan Moore <moorent at bechtel.Colorado.EDU> Subject: Comps and Bottle types, Mass botteling for wedding Quick question. I want to enter a brew contest but I dont have enough bottles that fit the guidlines. Has anyone ever tried transfering a beer from one bottle to another? Does the carbonation/flavor hold up? Or another posibility would be to color my clear bottle brown, any suggestions. My bottles are all bottle conditioned. TIA and private is fine. Thanks for all the advise on mass botteling. Sugestions ranged from "borrowing" a 1/2 barrel to using champagne bottle. The important peice of info I recieved was NOT to use the wine bottles because they might explode. I think I will go with the PET bottles because they will alow me to brew a greater variety then kegging, I think I might even make several 2.5 gal batches to improve my variety. I plan on using an adaption of the PET keg system discribed in the library at The Brewery, alpha.rollanet.org/library. I'm going to test this first but my idea is to simply insert a hose through the bottom of the PET and use silicon to seal it. The hose will be facing up and inserted about 1/2" so will limit the amount of sediment disturbed. I will use a hose clamp on each hose to seal. These "kegs" will hopefully work as well as the one described at The Brewery. The great thing is it will hopefully only cost me about 60 cents a bottle and I will have about 50 mini "kegs" holing 25 gals of beer. If I build a cheap wood case for no cost useing available scrap wood, drill holes for the hoses, and make some nice labels declaring which beer is which all my guests will see is a 50 tap beer bar and it will only cost $30. I'll report the results after the wedding next year, I'm satrting my planning early so I can test my ideas. If this works it could be a good idea for other homebrew parties or clubs. Nathan Moore Denver, CO Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 19:32:41 +0100 From: "FCC(SW) Moore" <moorere at nassau.navy.mil> Subject: Heiniken - in brown? Perhaps I have missed something in my European travels/adventures over the past two months, but every time I have seen Heiniken in bottles..... they have been of a distinct green hue. This has been in Spain, France, and Italy. I'll keep looking around, but the verdict seems to be - no brown Heiny bottles. Rich Moore Sailing the Seven Seas in Search of Good Beer.... Interesting Saying of the Day: The remarkable thing about Shakespeare is that he really is very good, in spite of all the people who say he is very good. Robert Graves Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 09:55:23 -0800 From: otto at alldata.com (Doug Otto) Subject: YL W51 Question I recently brewed an extract based bavarian weizen using the above yeast. (only my fourth brew so be gentle) I pitched the yeast at 65F and fermentation took place between 65F and 69F. I started noticing a hydrogen sulfide odor a day or two into the cycle. Attributing the odor to the yeast, I continue the process and racked into my secondary after about 5 days. After a week of conditioning I bottled the brew. Last night I popped one open for testing (after about a week) and there is still a hint of that "smell" hanging around an otherwise pretty decent weizen. Is this something that will condition out or should I dump it out and use the bottles for something I can stand to bring under my nose. Thanks in advance, oh wise ones. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Doug Otto otto at alldata.com Alldata Corporation dotto at calweb.com Technical Manager, Database Development (800) 829-8727 ext. 3137 Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 97 12:51:51 CST From: jwilkins at imtn.tpd.dsccc.com (John Wilkinson) Subject: Botulism in canned wort There have been some recent postings warning of the dangers of canning wort because of botulism. If the canned wort were infected by botulism would the cap remain sealed? I thought tainted canned (tinned) goods would swell because of the infection or is that a different infection than botulism? It is my understanding, which could certainly be mistaken, that the toxins produced by botulisms would not be eliminated by boiling even if the bacteria were. However, wouldn't the bacteria have had to be active to produce the toxins? Would this activity be apparent in any way, such as swelling of the container or loosening of the cap of a mason jar? Finally, is this a significant risk compared to other risks we face? Like driving to work or even drinking beer in the first place? I am not saying it is not but I feel that sometimes the level of risk is ignored when perhaps it should be kept in perspective. John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas - jwilkins at imtn.dsccc.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 15:30:52 PST From: kboivin at juno.com (Kenneth D Boivin) Subject: Subject: Extract/partial Belgain Abbey Brander Roullett asked about Belgain Abbey type ales and Belgain Candi sugar. I'm not sure if candi sugar is essential, however some type of sugar seems important. I have used honey as a substitute. Brown sugar might work as well. I'm on to all-grain now, but here's a recipie I have tried and liked. 6.6 lbs x-light LME or 6 lbs x-light DME 1 lb 2-row pale toasted in the oven on a cookie sheet at 300 F for 10 min, crush and mash at 153 F for 45-60 min. 1 lb honey (or clear candi sugar or brown sugar). 1.5 oz. Hallertauer (60 min) 1 oz. Saaz (15 min) Wyeast 1214 (Abbey) or you might try the Wyeast Belgain Strong Ale yeast. Now a question. I made a similar ale that has yet to clear after 6 weeks in the secondary. The biggest difference is that I prepared a starter using the dregs from a couple of bottles of Duvel. I pitched the Duvel starter initially and after 3 days pitched Wyeast 1214 into the carbouy. OG was 1.054, FG is 1.016. In an attempt to get the beer to clear, I placed in the fridge at 33 F for 2 weeks. The top 2-3 inches fell clear, but the rest remained cloudy. Pulled it out and left it an additional 2 weeks at 60 F. No change in clarity. I'm inclined to bottle it as is. Taste seems reasonable, but it is the haziest beer I've ever made. I've considered gelatin, but contamination concerns me. Is it protien or is it yeast that is clouding my beer and what, if anything should I do about it? Any advice? TIA Ken Concord, NH Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 16:12:42 -0500 From: danmcc at umich.edu (Daniel S. McConnell/DSMBook) Subject: Lallemand yeast/ASBC Hop analysis Hi All: It's nice to see the HBD back. >From: Rob Moline <brewer at kansas.net> > > I had discussed this with Gordon Specht of Lallemand, their agent in >the U.S., and what I wanted was some esters from the ale yeast and the high >alcohol tolerance of the Champagne yeast. And while there was a good result >from this combination..I felt that it might be improved upon, and tried just >the EC-1118 (Champers yeast). But it is now apparent to me that the EC-118 >in a malt wort eats only certain sugars and leaves the bulk of sugars behind. I understand that K1 will also produce some nice ester congeners (I have been recomending both of these strains for *legal* distillation of beverage alcohol). You might consider Davis 512 (I think that is the number) or some of the other strains that are of limited availability as well. I am rather surprised that EC leaves the bulk of the sugars behind, but hey, I'm learning too. Did Gordon mention which sugars EC won't use? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= >From: "John Robinson" <robinson at novalis.ca> > >Can anyone email me the ASBC procedures for determining IBUs? >I would like to pass this information on to a food analysis company >in Toronto to see if they can conduct the test. Thanks. These have been posted (1995, I think), but could use a little more exposure. They are easy procedures if you have the right tools. Hop bitterness in beer (ASBC Method) [ ref : ASBC methods of Analysis, 8th Edition, 1992]. -Transfer 10.0 mL beer to a 50 mL centrifuge tube. -add 50 uL octyl alcohol, 20 mL isooctane (HPLC grade) and 1 mL 3M HCl . -shake vigorously for 15 minutes. -centrifuge to separate the phases. -read organic phase at 275 nm (1 cm cell) vs blank (20 mL isooctane, 50 uL octyl alcohol). Notes: 1) isooctane should have an Abs at 275 <0.005. 2) readings should be done ASAP due to decomposiotin by UV light BU= Abs at 275*50 Example: Abs =0.622 0.622*50= 31.1 BU =-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Alpha and Beta acids in hops: ASBC MoA Method (reference: ASBC MoA. 8th edition, 1992) -place 5.000 +- .001 gr hops in an extraction bottle and add 100 mL toluene -shake for 30 min with vigorous agitation -let stand until clear or certrifuge (preferred) Dilution A -dilute 5.0 ml of this extract to 100 mL with methanol. Dilution B. -dilute an aliquot of the dilution A with alkalne methanol (0.2 mL 6M NaOH per 100 mL MeOH) so that the Abs at 325 and 355 falls within the most accurate range of the instrument. -Immediatly read diluion B (1 cm) at 275, 325 and 355 vs a toluene blank that was prepared and diluted in EXACTLY the same manner. Calculations: dilution factor, d= (volume dil A x volume dil B)/ (500 x aliq extract A x aliq dil A) % alpha acids= d x (-51.56 A355+ 73.79 A325-19.07 A275) % beta acids= d x (55.57 A355-47.59 A325 + 5.10 A275) Example: 5 gr hops extracted with 10 mL toluene 5 mL clear extract diluted ot 100 mL with methanol=Dilution A 3 mL Dilution A diluted to 50 mL with alkaline methanol A355=0.615 A325= 0.596 A275=0.132 d = (100 x 50) / (500 x 5 x 3) = 0.667 alpha = 0.667 x [ -(51.56 x 0.615) + (73.79 x 0.596) - (19.07 x 0.132) = 6.5 beta = 0.667 x [ (55.57 x 0.615) - (47.59 x 0.596) + (5.10 x 0.132) = 4.3 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Alpha and Beta acids in hops by HPLC: ASBC MoA Method (reference: ASBC MoA. 8th edition, 1992) detector: capable of 314 nm column: C18 (they recommend 250x4mm, 5 um ODS, RP18, Nucleosil-5) Mobile phase: MeOH: H2O: HPO4 (85%) /85:17:0.25 (v/v) Conditions: isocratic Flow: 0.8 mL/min Temp: ambiant Sample: 10 uL Method: - add 20 mL MeOH to 10.0 gr finely ground hops - add 100 mL diethyl ether- stopper and shake for 30 min. - add 40 mL 0.1M HCl - stopper and shake for 10 min. - allow to stand for 10 min to separate the phases - pipette 5.0 mL of the supernate to a 50 mL volumetric flask - bring to volume (50 mL) with methanol - filter before injecting (sample is stable 24 hours) - calculate based on a known calibration standard as follows Calculations: Response Factor, RF= [mass of calib extr (gr) x conc of component in calib extr (%)] / area. Component %= (2 x average sample peak area of component x RF) / mass of sample Typical Retention times: cohumulone 16 min n- + ad-humulone 19 min colupulone 27 min n- + adlupulone 34 min =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- >From Jim Busch >Coming February 14: St. Victorious Doppelbock!! <Sigh> PA is such a long drive....... DanMcC Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 16:42:51 -0500 From: Jim Elden <elden at accumedic.com> Subject: Gap in SS false bottom & outcome Hello Brewers! I'd like to start out by thanking everyone for the *numerous* responses I got regarding the gap on the false bottom for my converted-keg mashtun. Slitting a piece of tubing lengthwise and wrapping it around the edge of the screen did the trick and narrows the gap sufficiently so that no grain gets around it. For what it's worth, the reason I have the gap in the first place is that the supporting bolts are just below one of the ridges in the keg, where the diameter is larger. Keep this in mind if you are converting a keg yourself and plan on using a false bottom. # # # I had once considered using the EashMasher instead of a false bottom but was told that it probably would restrict the flow too much in my RIMS, so I dismissed the idea. While at the homebrew store today, I had a conversation with someone who uses TWO EasyMasher IIs on a tee fitting for his 3-tier system and is very happy with it. Specifically, he mentioned high extraction rates, no stuck mashes, no channelling, and, since there is no space under a false bottom, increased system capacity. This all sounded good but I told him that $33 apiece for 2 EMs was a bit more than I wanted to spend, and he quickly pointed out to me that I could buy just the the screen part of the EM II for $12 each and the rest of the parts for about $7 at the plumbing supply. Sold! My keg has a 12"x3/4" male NPT SS nipple welded into the side near the bottom. The nipple extends to the center of the keg. Parts: 2 EasyMasher II screens (that's the one about 8" long) a few feet of 3/8" flexible copper tubing 3/4" female NPT by 1/2" sweat fitting 3" 1/2" copper pipe 1/2" sweat to 3/8" compression fitting 3/8" compression tee fitting 2 small SS hose clamps to attach the EM to the 3/8 copper I am going to arrange the 2 EM screens so the layout could be described as the number 11 inside a circle. Brew Day is Sunday. I'll let you all know how it works next week. And I'm still happy the problem with the screen is solved! Although, provided the EM scheme works, I'm already thinking of recycling the screen as a device to keep the hop leaves behind in my boil tun.... Cheers, Jim Elden Riptide Brewery Long Beach NY Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 19:27:14 -0500 From: David Root <droot at concentric.net> Subject: When to rack? I made an extract batch for the yeast. I screwed up. First I made a starter form Wyeast 2206 Bavarian Lager. One Pint, then 2 Liters Then I made a batch of "Dortmund Export" using extracts, and some grain. The Plan was to make a 5 gallon batch for the yeast to make a 10 gallon batch of Bock. SO I made the 5 gallon extract batch using whole hops. I did not realize that I could not separate the hops and Hot break from the wort. SO dumped the whole thing into the fermenter (after cooling properly), added enough water to bring up to 6 gal. The Question is when do I rack? I wanted to brew the extract beer to get enough yeast for a large batch of Bock, or more likely Slader Creek Ocktoberfest. The hot break, cold break and hops are in the primary right now. This is my first Lager. I pitched at 65 f. When the airlock was bubbling at a good clip (8 hours later) I put the fermenter in my basement that is about 55 f. Do I rack after one day (that would be Saturday Morning), or wait a week and rack as usual. I brewed this beer for the yeast as much as the beer. I usually brew all grain. I made this batch because it is too cold outside to brew, and I wanted a big starter for my bock Or ocktoberfest. t is a god time to lager in this part of the country, so I want to do what is best. Private Email or post to digest. I will post a summary if I get many responses. Glad to have the digest back, I've learned a lot, and my beer has improved Immensely David Root Lockport NY droot at concentric.net Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 17:28:45 -0700 From: mike maag <maagm at rica.net> Subject: Gelatin/bottling I have used gelatin to clear beer before kegging and force carbonating. If I use gelatin then bottle, will enough yeast be left for good carbonation ? TIA, Mike. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 18:54:39 +0000 From: Jim Klett <tgc at execpc.com> Subject: Sorry to spam (but THIS is IMPORTANT!!!) Subject: FW: FCC Billing Plans for Net Use: E-mail FCC by 2/13/97 I am writing you this to inform you of a very important matter currently under review by the FCC. Your local telephone company has filed a proposal with the FCC to impose per minute charges for your internet service. They contend that your usage has or will hinder the operation of the telephone network. It is my belief that internet usage will diminish if users were required to pay additional per minute charges. The FCC has created an email box for your comments, responses must be received by February 13, 1997. Send your comments to isp at fcc.gov and tell them what you think. Every phone company is in on this one, and they are trying to sneak it in just under the wire for litigation. Let everyone you know hear about this one. Get the e-mail address to everyone you can think of. isp at fcc.gov Please forward this email to all your friends on the internet so all our voices may be heard! - -- Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 19:59:15 -0600 From: "Michael T. Bell" <mikeb at flash.net> Subject: Sanke kegs Glad to see the HBD back in good form. This is my first post in a long......long.....long time. He she goes: After scraping any ideas of using my first choice of fermenters(15gal poly. conical piece of crap I purchased for a ridiculous price), I have purchased a couple of Sanke type kegs. I seem to remember somewhere in the HBD (old?...new?) seeing an article on converting these kegs to fermenters. I see no real challenge except for dealing with the dip tube. How does one remove this thing? It seems the new HBD has brought with it some old spectres. While I admire the knowledge that each has gathered from many brewing experiences (I have used the information to greatly improve my beers) it is not pleasant to watch a standstill that has nothing to do with brewing. Most of us would like to attend a brewing session with Fritz Maytag or Jim Koch, not a mud wrestling death match involving the two. Stop it now. Michael T. Bell Boomer Dog Brewing Arlington, Texas Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 16:44:01 -0500 From: DENNIS WALTMAN <PDWALTMAN at sablaw.com> Subject: Previous Results; Lack of Skunk I asked a question before on a beer with an accidental long rest at 140 F (90 minutes), before a 158 F rest at 30 minutes. I got many well reasoned replies, which split roughly 50/50 on either I'd have a very dry beer because the beta ate the starch, to I'd have a high final gravity [1.020 to 1.025] because the beta didn't get a chance to work on the products of the 158 F rest. There was a portion of the "dry" beer faction who felt there would still be enough dextrins from the 2.5# of crystal, though some were surprised at the quantity of crystal used. Well the fermentation started slow because I had a much too small a starter and I suspect the 50 F fementation temp was a little low to start even a lager (Wyeast Bavarian lager yeast). It has been transfered to a secondary and at transfer the gravity was at 1.020. If my extract/specialty grains experience means anything in an all-grain decotion lager, I'd guess the beer is on track to a 1.014-1.016 final gravity. It could be since I was doubting thermometers, that the temp could have been a tad less than 140F (though I thought it more likely they were a tad more); would that explain this? I'll let you know what happens when I bottle in a couple months [my brew/bottling partner leaves for Chicago Cubs spring training in two weeks; any Tempe/Mesa, AZ area brew-pubs I should suggest to him]. *********************** On the skunked beer thread: I don't ever recall tasting a skunked Corona [yes, I admit it; I drink Corona when others pay for it]. That is a beer that I would think could not hide the skunk in its flavor. My recollection is that Corona uses clear or nearly clear bottles. I don't recall a skunked stout either, even though I've had those in clear bottles as well. Is it possible that certain hop varieties skunk more than others? I've brewed outside in bright sunlight and poured cooled wort into the carboy outside, and shook to aerate, also outside in the sun (before I knew better) and the beer didn't skunk. It was all Cascade hops. Or that the skunking comes from the late-addition hops, rather than the bittering hops? If so, perhaps a reason to dry-hop or first wort hop. Dennis Waltman pdwaltman at sablaw.com Sutherland, Asbill, & Brennan, LLP Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 22:51:25 -0500 From: Katy or Delano DuGarm <dugarm at mnsinc.com> Subject: Botulism Hal Davis writes: >Just pondering here. I've heard it oft-said that there are no known >pathogens in beer. Supposing that the only reason you're canning wort is to >cultivate a yeast starter to make beer. If the yeast does its thing and beer >is made, wouldn't that kill any botulism baddies? I've always wondered about Papazian's claim. _No_ pathogens? In any case, yeast would not denature the botulism toxin. It would still make you stop breathing. Delano DuGarm Arlington, Virginia dugarm at mnsinc.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 97 22:25 PST From: cburns at egusd.k12.ca.us (Charles Burns) Subject: Just another recipe Just wanted to share one of my favorites. This originated as an extract clone of Sam Adams Honey Porter. I converted to all-grain and am on my third version. DJ is my grandson: ============================================================================== DJ's Honey Porter III (courtesy of SUDSW) Category : Robust Porter Method : Full Mash Starting Gravity : 1.070 Ending Gravity : 1.016 Alcohol content : 6.4% Recipe Makes : 5.0 gallons Total Grain : 13.50 lbs. Color (srm) :128.4 Hop IBUs : 43.3 Malts/Sugars: 0.50 lb. Black Patent 0.75 lb. Chocolate 1.25 lb. Crystal 80L 9.00 lb. Pale Ale 0.50 lb. Malted Wheat 1.50 lb. Honey Hops: 0.50 oz. Fuggles 4.5% 10 min 0.50 oz. Fuggles 4.5% 30 min 0.50 oz. Kent-Goldings 4.9% 3 min 1.00 oz. Perles 5.0% 60 min 0.50 oz. Cluster 6.8% 60 min Wyeast Scottish Ale - 1 quart starter All hops are pellets Boil temperature of water: 210F Grain Starting Temperature: 65F Desired Grain/Water Ratio: 1.25 quarts/pound Strike Water: 4.22 gallons of water at 172F First Mash Temperature: 155F Charley Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 23:48:48 -0800 (PST) From: Heiner Lieth <lieth at telis.org> Subject: IBU calculation for dry-hopping Can anyone tell me how to figure dry-hops (in the secondary fermenter) into the IBU calculation? Heiner Lieth. Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 04:27:19 -0500 (EST) From: KennyEddy at aol.com Subject: The New & Much-Improved HBD At the risk of piling praise upon accolade, I hereby offer my hearty thanks to Pat, Karl, and the masses behind the Ressurrection of the HBD. You just GOTTA visit the HBD Ressurection Page at http://brew.oeonline.com Interesting chronology of events leading up to today's HBD. You will gain a much better understanding of what it obviously took to bring you the HBD in its present format, and the complete archives and search engine reside there as well should you want "back issues". Well done, boys. ***** Ken Schwartz El Paso, TX KennyEddy at aol.com http://members.aol.com/kennyeddy Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 04:57:40 -0500 (EST) From: Poris at aol.com Subject: priming I have a novice question that I cannot find an answer to. To avoid using sugar for priming (for authenticity or taste reasons) it has been suggested that a new wort be made up to add to the fully fermented wort before bottling. This provides the fermentable sugars to increase the CO2 level to the desired quantity in the bottle or keg. If you are not making another batch right away this seems impractical, or alot of extra work. Is it possible to hold back some of the original wort before the yeast is added, and then add this back when priming? I guess you can use the change in specific gravity of the primary and secondary fermentations to estimate the amount of fermentable sugars and hence the quantity of CO2 that the particular wort will provide and adjust the amount of added unfermented wort. If so, would refrigeration be adequate to prevent spoilage or wild fermentation? Would freezing this liquid be better? Thanks to the people who maintain this list and thanks in advance for your answers. Jaime Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 07:26:29 -0600 From: "Michael T. Bell" <mikeb at flash.net> Subject: Home-made EM I've seen so much talk on these home-made Easy-Mashers that I thought I would give it a try. Since I've never even seen a real EM in action, I have some quick questions for the learned: 1. How far from the bottom of the kettle do you position the EM? 2. Do you use a "frame" or ribbing to keep grain from collapsing in on the EM? 3. How much area is required? This will be going into a 1/2 inch nipple on a converted keg set-up. TIA Michael T. Bell Boomerdog Brewing Arlington, TX Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 14:24:05 -0500 From: ajdel at mindspring.com (A. J. deLange) Subject: False Bottoms/Wit/Botulism Tom Neary seeks comments on false bottoms in mash tuns. His post mentions that direct heat applied beneath a false bottom doesn't circulate very well through the rest of the mash (this is not a problem with false bottoms in kettles where as the wort is thinner and the agitation more violent). The other problem with false bottoms is that lots of stuff works its way through during the stirring which is required to keep temperature evenly distrinuted even if a pump is used. This results in a bit of a problem with crud in the vorlauf (whether this is recirulated manually or with a pump) leading to longer lauter times and sensitivity to mechanical motion of the mash lauter tun. I know people who mash with false bottoms (using pumps) with success but I have given it up. I still lauter/sparge with a false bottom but do it in a separate vessel. Using this scheme I can fill the lauter tun to just above the screen with foundation water and "float" the mash on top of this. Lauter is quick but the penalties are 1) another vessel and a place to put it 2) additional exposure of the mash to air during transfer (I use a pitcher - not a pump). Douglas J. LeCureaux asked about orange peel in wit. To start with, orange peel in a wit is kind of similar to the violas in an orchestra: you don't really notice them unless they are missing. Thus the amount of orange peel isn't critical. I use a little over an ounce per 5 gallons (4 oz in a 16-17 gal batch). Coriander is different. Not all coriander is of the same freshness and flavor potency. On top of that the amount used is a matter of taste. I figure if you are going to mess with the stuff at all you might as well be able to taste it and use a bit over an ounce per 5 gallons (4 Oz in a 16 - 17) gallon batch. Try to get fresh, whole seeds, crack them just before use and dump them in at knock-out. PS: HBD security policy does not require paragraph marking. Hal Davis asks about botulism in canned wort. Botulism spores are awfully durable and require extended periods (tens of minutes) of exposure to moist heat for destruction. On the other hand their toxin is easily denatured by a few (ten I think) minutes exposure to a more modest temperature (80C) so if you are concerned that your canned wort contains botulinus toxin, heat it to 80 or above for a few minutes (put the jars back in a boiling water bath) just before use. Another approach would be to acidify the wort to pH < 4 before canning. This will prevent the bacterium from growing (it's why tomatoes don't need pressure canning) and the future yeast occupants should love it. A. J. deLange - Numquam in dubio, saepe in errore. Please Note New e-mail Address Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 09:29:53 -0500 From: pedwards at iquest.net (P. Edwards) Subject: White Labs Yeast Test Results (I apologize in advance for the length of this post, but given its contents, I think you'll find reading it worth your time.) Many of you faithful HBD readers may recall that I posted some words of skepticism regarding White Labs Pitchable Yeast. Specifically, I questioned their claim (relayed to me by a local purveyor of the product) that they packed in excess of 250 billion cells in each 50 ml vial. Their literature varies - the info sheet I saw gives a range of up to 500 billion cells. White Labs claims that one vial of the yeast was sufficient to pitch directly into five gallons of wort. The vials I saw caused me to doubt that claims, based on my experince and some reading I've done. I did a little asking around about cell density, since I'm not a microbiologist. I am. however, an engineer with over twenty years experience, and have seen questionable data on more than one occassion. The answers I received from multiple, independent, knowledegeable sources caused me to further doubt White Labs' figures. To wit, using the information I had received, I figured that White Labs was _way_ off with the cell count. Still, I had no concrete evidence. Via private e-mail, Jim Liddil offered to do a cell count and to check viability on some samples of White Labs, if I could send him some. Hot Damn, let's test the stuff! Like they say, one test is worth a thousand predictions. So, I obtained some samples of White Labs Yeast from another HB supplier. These were received via FedEx on 1/31/97, and were represented to me to be fresh samples from that week's production. I selected two samples, one English Ale and one California Ale. I packed these two vials along with a cold pack, and shipped the package to Jim via FedEx. Jim received the vials on 2/4/97, and sent me the following information. Please note that Jim only tested two samples and all data is not absolute or necessarily statistically significant: "I centrifuged the tubes at 800 rpm which is 200Xg in the centrifuge I used. I did this for 10 minutes. This is standard practice for mamallian cells. It also how I centrifuge everything else including bacteria. The tubes were refrigerated for an hour before the start of the analysis and kept on ice the whole time. "After centrifugation the tubes were placed in a rack next to an empty tube of the same type but with graudations on it. The California ale had ~30 ml as a total volume with the pellet having a volume of 7.5 ml. The English Ale had a total volume of ~35 ml with a pellet volume of 15 ml. "I then resuspended the pellet in the liquid by putting the tube on a rocker platform in the cold room. This is a device we use to resuspend blood. It rocks in a very gentle fashion. I left it for 20 minutes. I then withdrew 1 ml of the suspension from each vial and added it to 9 ml of 0.9% saline (Sterile) All procedures were performed in laminar flow hood. "The English ale yeast clumps in an extreme fashion making accurate counts problematic. The California ale resuspended uniformly. The Califonia has about 1e9 cells/ml. The English is around the same number. I did multiple counts. I feel pretty confident with the California number. The English yeast is a real problem. (Note that in subsequent correspondence, Jim told me that although he had trouble to get a really accurate count on the English Ale yeast, he's confident that the cell count is in the same ballpark. Some of you will note that the pellet volume for the English Ale sample was about twice that of the California Ale sample. At best, that would indicate twice as many cells, but even so, is still nearly an order of magnitude below the manufaturer's claims of 250-500 billion cells per vial.) Jim further went on to report that the viability of both samples was approximately 85 percent (using methylene blue and rhodamine). No info is available on what White Labs says the viability of the yeast was when it was packed. Jim concludes his cell count measurements by telling me: "So at 1e9 cells/ml X 30 we are looking at 3e10 cells total. So indeed they are off by an order of magnitude. This is in the 1e6 cell/microliter range for packed cells." For the numerically and scientific-notation challenged, the cell count Jim observed is about 1 billion cells per milliliter, which when multiplied by the slurry volume is approximately 30 billion cells per vial. This is consistent with the "1 million cells per microliter cell density in packed slurry" information I received from other microbiologists I contacted. To take this futher, if you've in the "1 billion cells per degree Plato per milliliter of wort pitching rate" camp like Noonan and others recommend, then 5 gallons (19 liters) of 12.5 degree Plato (1.050 OG) wort would need about 240 billion cells. The vials of White Labs yeast Jim tested would give you at best about 1/8 of the recommended pitching rate in this instance. I did a test brew with one sample of White Labs California Ale yeast. I did not trust their advice to pitch directly into my full five gallons of wort, so pitched the yeast into a 1/2 gallon starter wort of 1.040 OG. >From a strictly macro-empirical viewpoint, the starter kicked in about like what a fully swelled pack of Wyeast would. I'll concede that I may have saved one day. The resultant fermentation in the five gallon brew proceeded about the same as it does normally in my brews. No better, no worse. I want to thank Jim for offerring to do this cell count and viability test. Neither Jim nor myself wish to get into long battles over this information. We only present it for your consideration. I questioned the numbers, did a little digging and Jim proved that my suspicions were correct. I make no accusations of intent by White Labs to willfully mislead customers. Mistakes happen. I, for one, would certainly like to hear from White Labs in this forum. If an honest error occurred, so be it. Fix the documentation to reflect reality and include instructions with the product on the neccesity of building up the yeast volume via a starter, and let's move on. Jim's e-mail is "JLIDDIL at AZCC.Arizona.EDU" As they say, "Caveat Emptor" - --Paul Edwards (pedwards at iquest.net) Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 09:31:27 -0700 (MST) From: jac at access.usa.net (John A. Carlson, Jr.) Subject: Classic Beer Styles Series: Brown Ale I had the good fortune to run into Jim Parker (Institute for Brewing Studies) last night while drinking a pint at the Corner Bar. Jim has recently signed a contract with Brewers Publications to write the next Classic Beer Styles Book. The book will be on Brown Ales. Now the exciting part. As you know the 8th Annual Reggale & Dredhop Homebrew Competition on March 1, 1997 in Boulder, Colorado will select the best brown ale entry to be commercially produced by the One Keg Brewhouse. The beer will be sold to the Old Chicago Restaurant chain and served throughout its Front Range locations. Jim Parker will publish the winning recipe in his Brown Ale book! Alas, the entry deadline is 2/21/97 and the brown ale award is only open to those who live in Colorado (because the winner must be able to work with the brewers at One Keg to scale up the recipe). Brew those Browns and get them to What's Brewing in Boulder by 2/21/97 and you may be the homebrewer to get your recipe published in Brown Ale! Return to table of contents