HOMEBREW Digest #2377 Tue 18 March 1997
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FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@ brew.oeonline.com
Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of
Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
URL: http://www.oeonline.com
Contents:
toxic beers and Papazian's books... ("Nathan L. Kanous II")
Flaked Barley in Stout (Tom Lochtefeld (Risk Mgt))
SE PA Road Trip Report/Fresh Pils (William D Gladden )
hops (Mark Pfortmiller)
Finicky Hops........ (Aesoph, Michael)
Re: glatt mill rollers (Dion Hollenbeck)
Cleaning Aluminum (Terry White)
Re: Just Hops packaging ... (Scott Abene)
yeast problems/hops plants (John Penn)
RE: Mash efficiency (Ganister Fields Architects)
Beer, buckets, and bad knees (Jim Lanik)
Re: decoction at mashout (Jeff Renner)
slow fermentations (Joe Shope)
RE: Glatt mill rollers ("Sornborger, Nathan")
San Jose Airport area Brewpubs? (Charles Burns)
cheap kegs and co2 cylinders (Nathan Moore)
HBD distribution list ("Karl F. Lutzen")
Corn Meal vs. Flaked Maize (Russ Brodeur)
Toxicity ("David R. Burley")
RE: pedios (homo/hetero) - why? (Steve Alexander)
Real Ale (korz)
Dominion Cup Competition (Jeff Hewit)
Edme Pressure Barrel (Doug Otto)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 07:03:55 +0000
From: "Nathan L. Kanous II" <nkanous at tir.com>
Subject: toxic beers and Papazian's books...
I believe that the table in the back of the Companion
refers to chemical standards to reproduce those aromas
and flavors and that those standards may be toxic, not
your beer. At least that's how I interpret it and I
haven't died yet. Yes, I pressure can my starters.
Nathan
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 97 07:13:59 EST
From: toml at fcmc.COM (Tom Lochtefeld (Risk Mgt))
Subject: Flaked Barley in Stout
A while back someone suggested adding flaked barley to a standard stout
"kit" to give the final product a much creamier head. Can someone tell
me if I should strain the flaked barley out after the boil, or if I
should just let it ferment all week with he flaked barley in the wort.
Should I rack to secondary after a few days?
Regards,
Tom
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 08:38:50 -0500
From: William D Gladden <W_GLADDEN at Mail.Co.Chester.PA.US>
Subject: SE PA Road Trip Report/Fresh Pils
Greetings all,
Recent threads have included discussions of skunking and favorite
six packs. I too have been baffled by getting skunked Heineken
on draft and am a fan of Pilsner Urquell but it is hard to find
in good condition. So you can imagine my good fortune when I
visited that small decoction brewery in Southeast PA, Victory
Brewing Company in Downingtown and tasted their reformulated
Pils. WOW!!!!! Man am I glad it is now available in bottles.
I've read HBD comments where people proclaim "it screamed Saaz."
Well, it did. I encourage anyone in the area to check it out.
Question to Jim Busch ... how do you guys *do that*? Do you dry
hop? A Huge late addition? Any bittering hops? Any insights on
the hop rate, schedule, and variety(s) used would be appreciated.
Most hbers I know gravitate toward big beers. I used to get away
with telling them I had to homebrew lagers and Pils to get
stellar noble hop flavor in a full bodied Pils or lager without
it being too stale or skunked. So much for that! No
affilliation etc.....
Bill Gladden
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 15:07:00 -0500
From: Mark Pfortmiller <MPFORTMILLER at PRINTPACK.COM>
Subject: hops
A few weeks someone gave me the number to call to order hops for
planting. I've called that number but have not recieved the catalog yet. Of
course i threw out the number after I called. Could someone please
resend me the number? Private e-mail ok
TIA
Return to table of contents
Date: 17 Mar 97 09:06:44 EST
From: aesoph at ncemt1.ctc.com (Aesoph, Michael)
Subject: Finicky Hops........
Dear All:
I was given some hops by a kind and generous man (thanks Keith!)
recently. He sent me about 20+ rhizomes each of cascade and pearle hops.
I planted them all immediately and waited with intense excitement. It
is now several weeks later and most of the Cascades have several shoots
per rhizome and at least 2-6 inches of growth, but NOTHING from the
pearle hops - absolutely nothing. All conditions are similar. Can
anyone suggest something to wake these hops up???? As for planting
conditions, they are all indoors under artificial light, which seems to
work fine.
==================================================
Michael D. Aesoph Associate Engineer
==================================================
Return to table of contents
Date: 17 Mar 1997 07:20:29 -0800
From: Dion Hollenbeck <hollen at axel.vigra.com>
Subject: Re: glatt mill rollers
>> Sornborger, Nathan writes:
>>
>> Keith wrote:
>>> My glatt mill gears stripped during grinding of 10 lb of raw wheat a few
>>> weeks ago. Searching previous HBD turned up threads on successfully
>>> replacing these gears with metal ones. However I have not been able to
>>> contact anyone directly who has done this. Does anyone have a CAD drawing
>>> that they have used to successfully produce new metal gears? Mine are
>>> pretty mashed and would be difficult to use to model new ones. TIA.
>> I have never seen one of these mills but heard they have plastic
>> gears, is this correct? Under the assumption it is, they can be
>> replaced with metal ones but I wouldn't want to pay to machine
>> them, especially when they can be bought for a few bucks a
>> piece. If you can tell me the center distance, shaft diameter, and
>> key size (if any) I will tell you some part numbers and who you can
>> get them from. I will post this info as you probably aren't the
>> only person this has happened to.
Well, here is the info :
Glatt Mill Replacement Aluminum Gears $40 + 6.50 ship & hdlg
D J Manufacturing Company
P. O. Box 676
Tunkhannock, PA 18657
717-836-2229 FAX 717-836-5089
Nick Aletras <naletras at epix.net>
www.deltadj.com/glatt
And while these are beautifully made gears, I STRONGLY suggest against
using them. Nick made these gears without ever seeing the mill and as
such, they PREVENT the mill from ever being adjusted. Instead of 8
very deep flower-petal shaped gear lobes which allow meshing no matter
how close or far apart the shafts are, the aluminum gears have about
100 teeth that are less than 1/8" deep. The only adjustment to your
grind you can make is to make the gears mesh correctly (not too loose,
not too tight) and while this adjustment may be right for the gears,
it is not necessarily right for the mill.
If you want to buy stock replacement gears for the Glatt, try:
Jim's Homebrew Supply
N 2619 Division
Spokane, WA 99207
(509)328-4850
(800)326-7769
Also, I made an error in installation of the gears and got them
adjusted too tight and this caused my mill to slow down due to torsion
on the shafts holding the rollers and that overheated the bearings and
that caused them to grab on the shaft more and the whole thing locked
up. That caused the set screws in the aluminum gears to rotate on the
shaft locking the gears on the shaft permanently. If you do install
the aluminum gears, do it with the roll pins, do not use the set
screws alone. And make sure to leave enough free play between the
gears so that they do not bind the shafts in the bearings.
Bottom line, I had to order a complete set of stock gears and bearings
and hacksaw off the aluminum gears and completely rebuild my mill from
the ground up.
dion
- --
Dion Hollenbeck (619)597-7080x164 Email: hollen at vigra.com
http://www.vigra.com/~hollen
Sr. Software Engineer - Vigra Div. of Visicom Labs San Diego, California
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 10:28:28 -0500
From: terry at brewfellows.com (Terry White)
Subject: Cleaning Aluminum
Hi All,
A friend of mine recently gave me a 60 quart Aluminium Stock pot, now I
don't want to revive that old "can I brew in aluminum" thread, but the pot
looks like it was used to deep fry and no one cleaned it so it is covered
with dried cooking oil, does anyone know how to clean this pot?
Thank you very much,
Terry White
Brewfellow's Beer & Wine Making Supplies
Buffalo,NY
http://www.brewfellows.com
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 09:26:54 -0600
From: Scott Abene <skotrat at wwa.com>
Subject: Re: Just Hops packaging ...
>Steve Alexander <stevea at clv.mcd.mot.com>
wrote:
>I have personally ordered whole hops from Just Hops over the past several
>years, from Kellum and recently from Lujan, and have always gotten my hops
>in oxygen barrier vaccuum sealed bags. Same friendly service from Pete
>too.
Just hops also runs some pretty great specials on hops and I believe they
will forget about shipping if your order is over $45.
The hops I received were some of the best I have used in a long time.
-Scott
################################################################
# ThE-HoMe-BrEw-RaT #
# Scott Abene <skotrat at wwa.com> #
# http://miso.wwa.com/~skotrat (the Homebrew "Beer Slut" page) #
# OR #
# http://miso.wwa.com/~skotrat/Brew-Rat-Chat/ (Brew-Rat-Chat) #
# "Get off your dead ass and brew" #
# "If beer is liquid bread, maybe bread is solid beer" #
################################################################
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 12:59:56 +0000
From: John Penn <john_penn at jhuapl.edu>
Subject: yeast problems/hops plants
Tried a partial mash version of a SNPA clone all grain recipe from the
Cat's Meow. The brewing went well but I had problems with my yeast
starting. Recipe:
1/2 # Carapils
1/2 # pale malt
1/2 # wheat malt (thought I'd try to get more head retention)
Did a mini-mash/minimal sparge in a 1 gallon cooler of these. Then
steeped
3/4 # 60L Crystal
Boiled
6# M&F light extract syrup
1.5 oz. Perle (7.3%) in a 2.5 gallon boil (45 mins-2:1)
0.5 oz Cascade (5.5%) (15 mins-flavor)
1.0 oz Cascade (1-2 mins-aromna)
OG measured--~1.051, expected--~1.050
After cooling to about 70 or so, combined with 2.5 gallons or so of
pre-boiled/cooled water and pitched Nottingham dry yeast which was
rehydrated in a 70F starter of pre-boiled water with a little liquid
extract. The starter wasn't going great and the temp was a little low
but I had some problems previously with my starters being too warm so I
wanted to start closer to pitching temperature. Previously I had
switched from 80F starters to 90F starters and while they started well,
I think I temperature shocked the yeast while pitching to the cooled
wort because nothing happened! Well after a day--nothing. Added
another pack of Nottingham dry yeast directly to the wort and aerated.
Another day of no activity and I pitched some 1084 Wyeast from a starter
I had made previously and had been in the refrigerator some time.
Warmed up the 1084 yeast starter and fermenter in a bath of warm water
to increase the temperature and activity and pitched at 75F versus a
previously cooler 65F. Third day, nothing so I added half a packet of my
last Nottingham dry yeast packet, thinking I'd pitch the rest later if
it started. Except for this half packet, I had previously aerated and
pitched yeast three times! Well this packet started finally so I
aerated one last time and the next day it was bubbling away happily.
I've never had this much trouble with yeast, especially dry. All my
early batches went well and only lately have I been having problems,
possibly a temperature shock problem. So what could it be? I wondered
if I had a miniscule bleach residue which evaporated/disappated over a
couple of days so that my later yeast took? Bad dry yeast? Too cold a
refrigerator for the yeast? Any body have any ideas on what could be
wrong with such a bad start? Also, aerating before fermentation is
supposed to be OK, but is aerating three or four times over three days
OK? Hope the beer turns out OK, probably will.
As for hop plants, for those in MD, the homebrew store in Columbia, MD
is taking orders for the next month or so? If I didn't have a dog, I'd
consider it myself but I'm worried about the dog/hop poisoning problem.
No affiliation, blah, blah, blah.
John Penn
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 11:18:46 -0600
From: Ganister Fields Architects <gfarch at tiac.net>
Subject: RE: Mash efficiency
Jim Hust of Lincoln NE in HBD #2376 asks:
>How does one measure the efficiency of the mash and sparge?
Miller has a neat chart in his book (I think I have seen this info
elsewhere too) of maximum obtainable extract yields of fermentables with
homebrewing equipment. If you divide your final gravity 56 (not 1.056) by
the max. obtainable you will get your extraction efficiency. The rates
given are for pounds of material per gallon of water so you need to divide
this number by your expected final yield (after boiling).
The chart is as much about recipe formulation as it is about your system
efficiency. You can use those extract rates (multiplied by your system's
efficiency of course) to formulate your own recipes. If you find yourself
low on some grain, you can add appropriate amounts of other fermentables
such as flaked maize or DME to reach your target gravity.
Your system's efficiency will also vary depending on factors such as mash
pH and water chemistry.
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 09:36:29 -0700
From: Jim Lanik <jlanik at plinet.com>
Subject: Beer, buckets, and bad knees
Greetings all
About five weeks ago I decided to jump feet first into the wonderful
world of lager beers (an Anchor Steam clone using Wyeast 2112). Perhaps
I should have gone in head first as I had to have knee surgery about two
weeks later (from a non-beer related football injury). The doctor found
a lot more wrong with my knee than he thought, and instead of walking
around the day after surgery, I am confined to crutches for another 4
weeks.
I ferment my beers in the crawlspace under my house. During the winter,
the temperature down there stays at a pretty constant 56 degrees, give
or take a few, hence the higher temp lager yeast (temp during the summer
down there is about 68). However, springtime is rapidly approaching
here in Denver and it is supposed to be in the 80s later this week. I
know that we have yet to see the last of winter around here, but the
huge temperature swings and steady upward climb of average temp are
making me nervous.
Because of my knee I can't get down into the crawlspace to get the
carboy out to bottle the beer, and my wife isn't strong enough to do
it. The way my knee is recovering, I won't be able to get the carboy
until the end of April. What will the steadily increasing temeperature
do to my beer? Should I just leave it and hope for the best, or should
I have one of my friends wrestle the carboy out of there for me?
TIA for any and all responses. Private email fine.
Jim Lanik
jlanik at plinet.com
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 12:17:19 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: decoction at mashout
jwilkins at imtn.tpd.dsccc.com (John Wilkinson) wrote:
>Jeff Renner wrote:
>
>>The point of mashout is to destroy enzymes and stabilize the wort.
>
>I have heard this before but never understood it. Why destroy the enzymes?
>What is meant by "stabilize the wort"? If there is starch present in the
>wort, wouldn't you want the enzymes to remain active to reduce them? If
>there is no uncoverted starch present, what difference does it make if the
>enzymes are denatured or not?
>
>I know Jeff knows a hell of a lot more about brewing than I do but the only
>reason I can see for raising the mash temperature to ~170F would be to
>promote the dissolving of sugars into the liquid.
>
>Where have I gone wrong in my thinking?
Thanks for the compliment. At the end of a proper mash, all the free
starch should have been converted. You should also have the balance of
easily fermentable simple sugars and slower fermenting dextrins that you
want, so you mash out to fix this balance, or stabilize the wort, by
destroying the enzymes. Whisky makers do not mash out since they want to
maximize the fermentables, which of course results in more alcohol. The
conversion continues during runoff in this case.
A proper mashout is conducted at a high enough temperature (170F) to
denature mash enzymes but not so high as to liberate more starch (maybe
180F). The small amount of remaining starch is what would have been
liberated and converted in a decotion mash, which is one reason such a mash
gets a few more points than infusion mashes. In an infusion mash, we want
to keep this remaining starch out of the wort after the enzymes are
inactivated, because it would cause a starch haze and possibly an
opportunity for bacteria which could feed on the starch.
As you mention, another reason for mashout is the greater solubility of the
sugars. Yet another reason is that wort has a lower viscosity, that is, it
flows more easily, at higher temperatures.
Note that some HBDers, most notably Jack Schmidling, have reported sparging
with boiling water with no resulting haze. My guess is that liberated
starches remain trapped in the top levels of the grain bed if there is no
stirring of the bed. Middle and lower levels of the bed remain cooler than
the critical temperature.
Addendum: After posting the above and cc'ing John, he replied wondering if
this meant that the mash time was more critical than he had thought. I
hadn't thought about this aspect. I usually mash 1-2 hours, but used to do
overnight mashes in the oven with no apparent overconversion. Any thoughts
from the readership? Is wort stabilization more theoretical than real. Is
a 1-2 hour mash effectively stabilzed?
Jeff
-=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 09:26:24 +0000
From: Joe Shope <sltp5 at cc.usu.edu>
Subject: slow fermentations
Two weeks ago I brewed an amber ale and when I went to pitch my yeast
I noticed an "unusual" smell in my starter. I discarded it and
immediately "smacked" a new pack of Wyeast 1056. I moved the carboy
to the basement where the temp is 50F until the new yeast was ready
to pitch. The next day the pack had swollen and so I pitched the
yeast at 50F. My guess was that the low temp would inhibit any
unwanted guests and eventually the yeast would take off. Four days
later, and after I had moved the carboy to 64F, there were finally
visible signs of fermentation. Fermentation lasted about 4 days at a
slow pace. This past Saturday I racked to my secondary and took a
gravity reading, the OG was 1.052 and on Sat it was 1.030. I have
now started another starter (1L) and I am planning to repitch when it
is ready.
My questions are:
1.) Should I have moved the carboy to warmer temps to help the
yeast?
2.) Should I have left the carboy at 50F whilst I started more
yeast?
3.) Was repitching a good idea, and should I have done it earlier?
4.) Are there negative effects associated with the addition of more
yeast?
I haven't had this problem before so any advice will be appreciated.
Joe Shope, Logan, UT
Fermentin' in the Promised Land
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 12:47:34 -0500
From: "Sornborger, Nathan" <nsornborger at email.mc.ti.com>
Subject: RE: Glatt mill rollers
Dion Hollenbeck said:
>Glatt Mill Replacement Aluminum Gears $40 + 6.50 ship & hdlg
I still don't know the roller diameter on the Glatt, but if it were 2",
Steel replacement gears would be about $16 ea.
>And while these are beautifully made gears, I STRONGLY suggest against
>using them. Nick made these gears without ever seeing the mill and as
>such, they PREVENT the mill from ever being adjusted. Instead of 8
>very deep flower-petal shaped gear lobes which allow meshing no matter
>how close or far apart the shafts are, the aluminum gears have about
>100 teeth that are less than 1/8" deep. The only adjustment to your
>grind you can make is to make the gears mesh correctly (not too loose,
>not too tight) and while this adjustment may be right for the gears,
>it is not necessarily right for the mill.
Spur gears come in two types, 20=B0 pressure angle and 14-1/2=B0 =
pressure
angle. For each type there are various tooth sizes defined by diametral
pitch, which is the number of teeth in the gear for each inch of pitch
diameter. 14-1/2=B0 PA gears are less sensitive to center distance
variation than 20=B0, so for adjustable mills they would be better.
Additionally the fewer teeth, the more the gears can be disengaged and
still work. When I have made small rolling mills in the past, (including
my malt mill) I size the gears so that their pitch diameter is the same
as the roller diameter, this allows the rollers to be brought together
until they touch. I also use a 14-1/2=B0 PA and the largest teeth I can
get away with so that they work well until the rollers are far enough
apart so that the grain would just fall through. It sounds as if the
designer of the mill knew enough to make the mill and market it but
didn't do much research about gearing.
>Also, I made an error in installation of the gears and got them
>adjusted too tight and this caused my mill to slow down due to torsion
>on the shafts holding the rollers and that overheated the bearings and
>that caused them to grab on the shaft more and the whole thing locked
>up. That caused the set screws in the aluminum gears to rotate on the
>shaft locking the gears on the shaft permanently. If you do install
>the aluminum gears, do it with the roll pins, do not use the set
>screws alone. And make sure to leave enough free play between the
>gears so that they do not bind the shafts in the bearings.
Never ever use gears made of aluminum!! It is soft and has very little
lubricity. Spur gears are to be made of plastics for light duty, bronze,
brass or steel. Roll pinning them was the best you could do with what
you had although they really should be keyed to the shafts.=20
>Bottom line, I had to order a complete set of stock gears and bearings
>and hacksaw off the aluminum gears and completely rebuild my mill from
>the ground up.
I realize that for the price the mill is probably ok. It seems to suffer
from some poor designing though.=20
Nate Sornborger, Barrington RI
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 97 10:54 PST
From: cburns at egusd.k12.ca.us (Charles Burns)
Subject: San Jose Airport area Brewpubs?
I apologize for this intrusion on the hbd for non-brewing related question
but its hard to pass up on a knowlegeable group like this for such important
information.
My brother arrives Sunday at noon from Georgia at the San Jose Int'l
airport. He'll be hungry and thirsty when he arrives and wants to lunch at
the best brewpub that's close by.
Suggestions by private email would be greatly appreciated. I have no
experience in San Jose, I just told him to buy the cheapest plane ticket he
could get for anywhere in northern CA. He picked the airport farthest away
from where I lived (Murphy's Stout law?).
Charley
cburns at egusd.k12.ca.us
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 12:39:43 -0700 (MST)
From: Nathan Moore <moorent at bechtel.Colorado.EDU>
Subject: cheap kegs and co2 cylinders
I keep reading/hearing stories about people finding $5 Cornelius
kegs and $15 5lb CO2 cylinders. I searched the archives and still don't
have a clue about were to find these. If you know of a source please pass
it on. I live in Denver but don't mind paying shipping if I find a good
deal. If anyone remembers I am the one that was planning to bottle 5 plus
batches in PET bottles for my wedding. Well, I wimped out and am buying
the keg system. Thats what credit is for, right? One more question. How
much beer can you draw with a 5lb CO2 cylinder and is there a limit to how
many kegs you can branch it off to.
If any one wants me to share the results of part one of this
question send me an email and I will foreward them to you.
Nathan Moore
Denver, CO
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Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 12:53:35 -0600 (CST)
From: "Karl F. Lutzen" <lutzen at alpha.rollanet.org>
Subject: HBD distribution list
Just to put all worries to rest about the distribution list of the HBD,
the list is:
a) Not available outside of the system. No direct email into
the server can access the distribution list. So no spamming
through this method. Period. You just can't do it!
(AND BOY HAVE THEY TRIED! There are several attempts per week!)
b) Not available with human intervention. We will not, REAPEAT
will NOT provide the distribution list to anyone. We have
received a few email requests for it. They have been politely
told where to place their request!
You can rest assured that if you receive "junk" email, it did not
originate from the HBD distribution list that is currently being
maintained by Pat Babcock and myself.
However, I cannot vouch for any previous "owner" of the list. What they
have done with it is unknown to me.
==================================================================
Karl Lutzen lutzen at alpha.rollanet.org
System Administrator
The Brewery http://alpha.rollanet.org/
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 16:23:13 -0500
From: Russ Brodeur <r-brodeur at ds.mc.ti.com>
Subject: Corn Meal vs. Flaked Maize
I am about to embark on my 2nd "Classic American Pilsner" attempt. My
first was outstanding, IMHO, although it was a bit on the strong side
for my taste (OG = 58). I used 2 lbs flaked maize and 7 lbs DWC pils
malt with a single decoction to go from 135-154 F.
For my second attempt I would like to lighten it up somewhat, and I am
shooting for an OG ~ 1.052 using 6 lbs DWC pils and 2.5 lbs corn meal.
I chose corn meal this time because: 1) it's cheap and 2) I plan on
using a single decoction anyway wherein I can boil the ! at ##$ out of the
corn meal to cook it, if necessary.
I have never used corn meal in a mash before. Is this a Bozo no-no due
to inferior quality?? Other than that I can't see any reason why it
wouldn't work out just fine.
TIA for any suggestions.
TTFN
Russ
- --
Russ Brodeur
Texas Instruments Inc.
Attleboro, MA
(508) 236-2157
mailto:r-brodeur at ds.mc.ti.com
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 16:52:50 -0500
From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: Toxicity
Brewsters:
Carl Helrich incorrectly interprets a comment by C Papazian at the bottom
of his Beer Aroma/Flavor Recognition chart approximately on p 407 (WHY
doesn't Charley label his chart pages??). A series of chemicals used as
examples of a taste and aroma are listed as "toxic- don't drink this" CP
meant don't drink these substances "straight", since they ARE toxic in
larger quantities ( so is alcohol!), most of these substances occur in
parts per million levels in beer, below the toxic level, but above the
taste/smell threshold.
Also the comment about beer not being toxic because of its low pH was about
pathological, biologically generated, during NORMAL fermentation,
substances. It didn't mean anything about potentially weird things some of
us do here in the name of a different beer. It is our utmost goal to make a
better beer without poisoning ourselves and most times no problem, but
always be sceptical of beers of which you have no idea of the recipe or
handling. Beer judges should get medals for bravery.
Finally on the reason you are having all those troubles with your beer may
stem from your too close adherence to CP's techniques. A major flaw is his
recommendation to strain hot wort into the fermenter full of cold unboiled
water - all in one picture! * Always* cool your wort to below 80F ( colder
is better) before passing it through air. Always boil all your water,
especially if you are having an infection problem. Cool it before adding
your wort ( boil it the night before you brew). Always use ALL malt
extract brews. NO sugar added before the fermentation. Be careful. I
have tasted some beers recently from popular British malt extracts,
prepared to give a specific brew and believe these contain an extraordinary
amount of sugar added in the guise of malt extract. Stick to malt extracts
which you know are 100% malt derived and go to at least partial mashes as
soon as you can. Be sure to use bleach freely to disinfect your bottles
and other apparatus and rinse everything with hot boiled water. Above all
- Charlie's recommended closed primary/ overflow hose configuration is a
highly likely potential source of infections. Either soak it in very
concentrated bleach to remove ALL the organic content inside ( a nearly
impossible task) or go over to an open ( closed with a plastic sheet or
lid) primary fermenter into which you can get your rubber gloved hand (
safety glasses also), a paper towel and concentrated bleach to clean off
all the gunk after a fermentation.
- --------------------------------------------------------------
Keep on brewin'
Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3202 at compuserve.com
Voice e-mail OK
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Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 17:25:53 -0500
From: Steve Alexander <stevea at clv.mcd.mot.com>
Subject: RE: pedios (homo/hetero) - why?
Joe Rolfe writes ...
> i guess i missed the whole point of the discussion and how it really
Homofermentative (desireable) lactobacilli CANNOT be distinguished
from pediococci infection on the basis of CO2 bubbling, ethanol
production or acetic acid production, as was erroneously implied.
> i believe HLP NBBA/NBBB will detect these at fairly low conc.
I don't believe this is true either, but it's not an HB technique.
If you're doing a lacto-fermentation, pack a microscope to distinguish
pedios was my point. Simpler methods won't differentiate.
Steve Alexander
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Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 17:21:25 -0600 (CST)
From: korz at xnet.com
Subject: Real Ale
Several posters have covered Real Ale in detail, so I'll just add
to what they have already said.
Both the Zymurgy article and one poster mentioned 1 volume of CO2
in Real Ale. It's actually a bit more than that. In fact, if the
beer was fermented around 63F (if memory serves) it will have 1 volume
dissolved in it *AT* atmospheric pressure. No, what you want is more
like 1.5 to 1.75 volumes and some sources say 2.0 volumes.
Also, someone mentioned "filtered air" being allowed into the cask.
I believe this to be very rare and that most pubs simply pull the
hard spile at opening and push it back in after last call.
Finally, handpump is not the only traditional method of dispense
which is accepted by CAMRA. There's also gravity (just a tapped
cask behind the bar, although there are cooling units you can buy
to keep the beer around 55F), air pressure (more common in Scotland ...
look for the "Tall Fonts") and electric pump. Handpump is the
most "impressive" to the customers and probably the easiest to
deal with for the publican (bartender).
Real Al.
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz at xnet.com
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Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 22:33:21 -0500 (EST)
From: Jeff Hewit <jhewit at erols.com>
Subject: Dominion Cup Competition
The James River Homebrewers Club is accepting entries for the Dominion Cup
Homebrew Competition now thru May 31, 1997. Judging will take place on June
7th, 1997 at the Legend Brewing Company in Richmond, Virginia. The
Competition is sanctioned by the American Homebrew Association and all
Homebrewers are invited to enter. Entries will be judged in ten style
categories with a ribbon and merchandise prize awarded to Best of Category
winners. The Best of Show winner will also receive an engraved Dominion Cup.
CONTACT: Lindsay Weiford, Competition Coordinator
(804)537-5228, Leave message with name and address.
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Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 20:33:38 -0800
From: Doug Otto <dotto at calweb.com>
Subject: Edme Pressure Barrel
Greetings.
I'm fairly new to this game, but now that I've got 8 batches under my =
belt (well okay, maybe a few hanging over it) I've been looking into =
kegging systems to avoid the hassles of bottling.
I've been pricing corny systems but stumbled across an add for the above =
mentioned Edme Pressure Barrel. Does anyone have any experience with =
this things? The price is right but I can see there are a few =
disadvantages, i.e. CO2 carts are more expensive than filling a bottle, =
no way to use a counter-pressure filler in the event you _want_ to =
bottle some beer. With just those two items against it, it seems like =
a reasonable value. I'm still kinda leaning towards the corny system =
but any input would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Doug Otto
Carmichael, CA
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