HOMEBREW Digest #2393 Wed 09 April 1997

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		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
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  Starch & Gelatinization- Part1 (Charlie Scandrett)
  Starch and Gelatinisation- Part2 (Charlie Scandrett)
  Recent Postings on Steeping Grains (John Sullivan)
  Rumbings in the Industry (rjlee)
  Hot Water Supply When You Need It - Shorter Brewing Day ("Reed,Randy")
  Virgin No More! and Request for Yeast Bank Info (Kate Cone)
  Digital Thermometer (haszarda)
  Hop Profiles Pt III (John Goldthwaite)
  filters (Jeff Sturman)
  .Exotic Heat Exchanger/ Layered B & T./ Peated Porter/Malt Specs/ ("Rob Moline")
  RE:> Alt recipe (Jeff)
  What makes a nut brown a "NUT" brown (Charles Burns)
  re:haze (Charles Burns)
  RE: dwc pale ale malt (John Wilkinson)
  Broken Thermometer ("John Robinson")
  Briess Pale Malts (DJBrew)
  Ireks Vienna Malt ("John Robinson")
  decoction and lautering wheat beers (Dean Larson)
  Apology to Culver City Home Brewing (Charles Burns)
  Mead making info (Hal Davis)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 21:28:27 +1000 (EST) From: Charlie Scandrett <merino at buggs.cynergy.com.au> Subject: Starch & Gelatinization- Part1 This is another old response never posted but it has become revelant again. Just goes to show that if you wait long enough, the same old threads will come around again. Dave Burley posted >AlK says he thinks malt should be crushed until it is ideally *all* flour >Maybe he has a different definition of flour than most people. He might have, but the flour still needs to be GELATINISED. An even crush leads to even gelatinisation. >Dave then went on to quote a piece of Noonan's book, which mentions that >flour is undesirable, because it balls easily. I think when Al wrote that the ideal >(impossible) crush was big husks and finely ground starch,<snip> This makes sense, as >the flour would be very quickly converted, and the husks would not be so finely ground >as to cause lautering/sparging problems. No, it doesn't make sense because gelatinisation is necessary for starch flour to be converted by enzymes into simple reducing sugars. Balling is the same problem as uncrushed malt, it impedes gelatinisation. Excess flour usually causes an fairly impervious top dough that makes lautering difficult. >I routinely find starch grits in my lauter tun, after the sparge is over. >this represents lost extract. If these pieces of starch had been more finely >ground, they would have been available to the enzymes to convert, and more >extract would be the result. No, a homebrewer will never grind down flour to a single starch granule size and then crush that so that enzymes may attack it. This is called "micronised flour", not even a MM can do that for a homebrewer! It must be GELATINISED, I think this is your problem . There are also "waxy" parts of the starchy endosperm (centre bit) of the malt husk. The low temperature rest at 40C of the 40/60/70 mash schedule is to break down the Glucan gums that bind these bits together to appear "waxy". With inadequate hydration and gelatinisation these can remain inaccessable to enzymes. Mark Bayer writes >> 6) extend the sacch. rest to 1.5 or 2 hours, regardless of the iodine >test . Yes, OK, or make sure you have a sufficient rest above gelatinisation temperatures but at relatively stable beta/alpha amylase temperatures. Bruce Taber> Why? Should the iodine test not be trusted? Is there substantially more sugar available even after the iodine shows no color change?<snip> It depends if gelatinisation has been complete. Iodine won't react with ungelatinised starch. >Now, why do i get a negative reaction for starch from the iodine test even >though i'm finding starch in my lauter tun? because as soon as a little >piece of starch breaks off the big starch grit, it gets converted. Actually, >the enzymes are gathered round the starch grit like sharks around a whale, >tearing off pieces and converting them simultaneously. No, enzymes are not piranhas, they are catalysts. Starch needs to be in solution in the form of a SOL or GEL. Insoluble but wet starch (ie ungelatinised) can be helped (when wet)in becoming a GEL by alpha amlayse, but heat does the job more effectively and faster. This next article (Part2) goes into a bot more technical detail. Charlie (Brisbane, Australia) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 21:28:42 +1000 (EST) From: Charlie Scandrett <merino at buggs.cynergy.com.au> Subject: Starch and Gelatinisation- Part2 - ----STARCH AND GELATINIZATION 101---- Starch is a non homogeneous polymer (i.e.a complex of simpler bits), a "polysaccharide" of thousands of simple sugars in a similar way that fats are polymers of aliphatic acids, proteins of amino acids and tannins of simple phenols. Actually most of organic chemistry is easier to understand if you imagine God spending most of creation week playing with a carbon based Leggo(tm) set. When a solid polymer contacts a solvent, the first stage of interaction is to form a GEL. With enough solvent it then forms a SOL. polysaccharide >> gel <<>> sol The gel/sol interaction is reversible, with increasing water and temperature and enzymic activity favouring the sol. The gel is a COLLOIDAL structure, that is it has interparticle bonds(usually hydrogen bonds) of lower potential energy than starch in true SOLUTION. Thus enzymically unconverted mash starch extracted by lauter will form a gel haze by complexing when the boiled wort is cooled and the lower thermodynamic condition is favoured. This is called "starch haze". "Simple" starch granules are very individual in structure and content (snowflake phenomena) and vary from 2-100 microns in size. A simple granule contains one nucleus. A "compound" starch granule has several nuclei and a rigid matrix structure. Starch is insoluble in cold water but in warm water it swells until "gelatinisation temperature" when is *begins* to lose structure and leach out compounds. A single granule will gelatinise over a range of ~2C but a sample of complex starch grits or particles will have a 4-10C range. Sucrose in solution will raise the gelatinisation temperature of starch by reducing its swelling. So in a concentrated mashing situation, the conversion of more easily gelatinised small starch particles to simple sugars can slow the gelatinisation of larger less gelatinised particles, extending the range. The *laboratory* gelatinisation temperature of barley *malt* starch is 64-67C (147-153F), unmalted barley is a couple of degrees lower. However as I have pointed out above, this range can be extended by malt modification, crush, mash concentration, and even the weather down at the barley farm. Even after "gelatinisation", there is further breakdown of the starch granule's matrix structure. Technically gelatinisation is not complete until there is no structure left at all. The fact that *infusion* mashes do not fully gelatinise malt starch is shown by the slight but consistent higher yield of *decoction* mashes. I think inadequate time between 70C and 75C, inadequate stirring and coarse crush are main reasons for ungelatinised, therefore unconverted starch. Because it inhibits lipid and polyphenol extraction, I always try for a coarse but even crush. Flour is of little interest to me. There are three basic methods to ensure advanced gelatinisation and thus good extraction of sugars and flavours. (Yes, degrees of gelatinisation affect flavours in baking.) The unique flavours of decoction mashing found in lagers are, I believe, partly due to the release of compounds by complete gelatinisation. Pilseners are the lightest beers brewed and have these lager flavours, so they cannot be due to Maillard reactions alone because a good indicator of amount of melanoids is colour. Darker lagers and ales are both flavour-affected by Maillard reactions, but Pils is unique in that it is decocted but light, and still somewhat malty. Anecdotal experience is too subjective for me to empirically confirm this. 1/ The 40C rest of Fix's 40/60/70 program is a beta glucan rest. It allows glucanases to break down gums that impede gelatinisation. It also allows good hydration of the starch cells for later swelling to gelatinisation, while being below optimum protease and amylase activity ranges. This means you can control your protein and fermentability profiles independant of this rest. The speed of SG rise at 60C will confirm its efficacy. 2/ In single step infusion mashes optimum extract is obtained at ~68C (155F), while optimum fermentability at ~65C (149F). This is partly dependant on the greater gelatinisation at 68C and greater beta amylase activity at 65C. Even in a single step mash, stirring and a steady rise to mashout at >75C after sachrification will give the alpha amylase a chance to work on the last bit of gelatinisation. Typically 15 minutes doing this will be a noticable improvement on using just a single still rest and immediate lauter. Start the rise after the iodine test shows existing gelatinised starch has been sachrified. If you wait until all amylase has been denatured at some rest in the high 60's, you might only create starch haze. You could withold a portion of the mash at 65C to add back after an extended mashout. This would convert the last of the gelatinisation. 3/ Decoct the grain bed. Removing the thin enzyme-rich wort and boiling the rest is the simplest method. Stirring is of extra importance here. A pH below 5.5 is also critical to avoid astringency. There is a fourth method which I am investigating. Auto Decoction. I have built experimental and production mash tuns which are pressure vessels (25, 100, and 2600 litre cookers) with vacuum guages and mechanical stirrers. I mash in at 58C for a protease and hydrolysing rest of 15 minutes. I then reduce pressure with an adjustable release valve and a vacuum pump and apply heat until the mash BOILS at ~65-70C! (About 0.24 atmospheres) The speed of SG rise after 10 minutes of this is spectacular in laboratory trials. I am decocting and sachrifying at the same time! Charlie (Brisbane, Australia) "I'm probably just too curious for my own good"-- Eric Fouch Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 07:37:14 -0700 From: John Sullivan <sullvan at anet-stl.com> Subject: Recent Postings on Steeping Grains There have been a number of threads in recent weeks regarding the steeping of specialty grains (aka roasted and crystal malts) for extract brewing. Readers ponder how much extract they are getting, methods to ensure that they can easily remove the grain, etc. I have not however, seen any postings that might be helpful to a newbie's brewing methodology. Here is my take on steeping specialty grains. The method proposed by Papazian and some others of adding crushed grain to your kettle and then removing it after steeping (or egads!... even boiling) for a time is not a sound method for a brewer looking to advance his technique. Steeping grains is: Limiting (i.e. you cannot steep all types of grains) A crapshoot (you do not know how much extract you will get) Potentially Problematic (unconverted starch) It is a simple move from steeping to partial mashing. Partial mashing involves taking your specialty malts along with a couple of pounds of base malt (i.e., malt with the diastatic capabilities)and mashing that somewhat in the same fashion as you would for an all grain batch. Though a partial mash provides additional fermentables, the objective of the technique is to improve the flavor of your beer. Partial mashers should be concerned about the flavor enhancement they obtain from the process and not how much extract they are getting out of their mini-mash. Here is ONE method which employs a small thermos style cooler (i.e., the kind you put lemonade in for a picnic) and a hop bag or piece of cheesecloth. To employ a partial mashing technique, it is preferable to have a true false bottom (is that an oxymoron?) but it is not absolutely necessary. Now, I'm not going to discuss how to set your pH or anything like that here. I will be describing a mechanical process that works. Let it suffice to say, that there are a number of other considerations and aspects that can be brought into the discussion. 1. Draw approximately 1 to 1.25 quarts of water per pound of grain that you will use. Heat to about 170F. 2. Add your grain to the water. Stir thoroughly to ensure that the there are no dry balls in the mash. 3. Fill your cooler with hot tap water to warm the cooler. 4. Apply additional heat to your mash to get the temperature to about 160F. This generally means that you kill the heat at about 156F-157F. The temp will continue to rise. 5. Empty the hot water from your cooler. 6. Jam some old racking hose over the cooler spigot. Double over your cheese cloth and lightly jam it into the drain of the cooler from the inside. You can use your little finger, a pencil or whatever. Don't cram it in too tightly however. Just enough that it will hold in place. 7. Transfer your 160F mash to the cooler and cover for 30 minutes or so. At this temperature, you will generally get full conversion in this time. 8. While your mash is in the cooler, prepare sparge water in the pot that you started your mash in. The volume should be no more than 2 times the amount of mash water that you used. 9. After mashing thirty minutes, recirculate your mash runnings until there are no visible chunks coming through your racking hose. 10. Add as much of your sparge water to the cooler as it will hold and let it run. Add the remainder of your sparge water as space above the grain bed becomes available. 11. Use these runnings as a start for your extract batch. That is, add it to your boiling kettle along with the remaining water that you would need and then begin your extract brewing process. You can be creative in how you do a partial mash. Some will rightfully point out that the there will be tracking in the cooler because everything channels to the outlet. They are correct. However, the objective is for flavor enhancement and not for fermentables. When you get to the point that you want to take the leap to all-grain batches, then you need to be concerned about extract efficiency. I guess I could have made this much shorter by saying don't steep your grains, learn how to do a partial mash. Note that Jean DeClerck and Wahl & Heinus were not referenced here. Now, I'll take my punishment for not being scientific or thorough. John Sullivan St. Louis, MO Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 08:06:44 -0500 From: rjlee at mmm.com Subject: Rumbings in the Industry Looks like there are some rumblings in the states about these mail order beer places.. Got an Industry Circular this week; this extracted from it: "The ATF has recently received a number of requests from various States for our assistance in the enforcement of State aclohol beverage laws. The States are concenred with mail order, telephone, and Internet sales and shipments made directly yo consumers in a State from sellers located outside the State. These transactions usually involve small quantities of winie of beer shipped by out-of-state sellers (including beer and wind of the month clubs) and, when considered individually, seem to have a negligible effect on interstate commerce. Taken in the aggregate, however, these shipments result in a substantial revenue loss to the States of the purchasers. The National Conference of Statt Liqour Administrators has esttimated that these types of interstate sales currently amount to $300 million annually and result in the State tax revenue losses of tens of millions of dollars. The State are also concerned that shipments may be made to underage drinkers" The ATF has taken the position that it *might* do something where it can, but that it can only do things to those who hold a basic permit (brewers and wholesalers; not retailers). But the open salvo has been fired; you can expect the States to do something about it at some point as there is too much money on the table to ignore. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 09:18:49 -0400 From: "Reed,Randy" <rreed at foxboro.com> Subject: Hot Water Supply When You Need It - Shorter Brewing Day A few weeks ago I asked the question: Is there any good reason why I should not use the water from my hot water heater for my mash and sparge water as long as the water quality in my home is acceptable? I only got one reply from a brewer who said he thought that using cold water was better since that was the "rule" for cooking. He said the hot water heater added calcium, or so he thought... I know of no scientific reference for this statement. The whole thread started when I looked a ways to shorten my brew day. I don't want to split into two days, as some people do. I just want to mash in sooner by having the water as mash temperature when I am ready to begin. There are three ways to do this (so far), in my mind. They are: 1) Fill mash vessel (converted keg) with cool water the night before, place electric warming plate underneath connected to timer. During the night, it kicks on and starts heating the water. With practice, I get the temperature I am shooting for at the time I am ready, or the water is hotter than I need, but I adjust it down as needed, by blending with cold water. 2) Fill mash vessel with hot water the morning of my brew day, and heat with my propane burner until I reach mash temp. (I currently fill with cold water and heat with propane to mash temp. Filling with hot tap water would be faster.) 3) Purchase an in-line heater like the ones found on some water dispensers. (about $80 - $90) They are often found in the workplace, and are used to provide very hot water (180 - 190 degree) for people who like to drink freeze dried soup or coffee. I believe others have posted that they use these. If the output was higher than mash-in temperature, cool water could be blended in to reduce temps. Both 1 and 3 would save prep time on the morning of brew day. I believe there is no harm in heating water in advance (#1) other than evaporation and possible safety concerns. With #3, previous posts mentioned taping the in-line heater to the hot water line so as to keep temperatures up when pouring the amounts required since pouring a hot cup of soup is a bit higher load on the heater than pouring 7 gallons of mash water. The nice thing with this option is that you always have hot water when you need it. There would be less need to have a pot of boiling water off to the side for emergencies. Does the collective have any other, refreshing ideas on this topic? TIA, Randy Reed Stoughton, MA ===================================================== If tuns are outlawed, only outlaws will have tuns... ==================================================== +-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ + The Local Brewing Company + + ESBITTER at AOL.COM + Surfing the + Randy Reed + Information + BJCP Beer Judge + SuperBikePath + Potscrubber + & + South Shore Brew Club + Web Wired + (Boston, MA Area - South) + World Visit SSBC at http://members.aol.com/brewclub/ +-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-+ Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 09:20:51 -0400 (EDT) From: katecone at ime.net (Kate Cone) Subject: Virgin No More! and Request for Yeast Bank Info THANKS FOR HELPING ME THROUGH THE FIRST TIME! Thanks, Dave Bartz of Gourmet Brewer, Jim Bentson and fellow HBD'rs, for coaching me through my first batch of Virgin Blonde Ale, which was also my first batch of beer ever. It turned out to be more of a red than a blond, but it's great just the same. Even my husband, who is the world's greatest skeptic, was duly impressed, so much so that he wants to give it to all his friends & clients. YEAST BANK INFO: As some of you know, I'm working on a mystery novel set in a brewpub. The brewmaster is a former monk who trained in an abbey. He is trying to duplicate the yeast used to make an Orval type beer. What I need to know to make this accurate is, supposing he got the recipe for this very special beer from the abbey -- -could he duplicate the yeast strain in the U.S.? -How would he do that? -Where would you create a private "yeast bank?" -What temperature, what conditions, what would be the ideal room/place? -If someone stole a portion of the yeast, how much would they have to take in order to start their own batch? -What would it be kept in (test tubes, etc.)? Any help will be greatly appreciated. IRISH STOUT I have a recipe for a stout, but want to make it as close to an Irish stout as possible. I bought some Murphy's and Guinness to sample. Anyone have a recipe close to those? (This means you too, Dave Bartz!) Thanks again! Kate Cone (Author of "What's Brewing in New England: A guide to brewpubs & micros from Maine to Rhode Island," June 1997, Down East Books, Camden, Maine) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 97 09:33:04 EST From: haszarda at stricom.army.mil Subject: Digital Thermometer Folks, While shopping for a piece to my Weber BBQ grill at "Barbeques Galore", I came across a nifty digital thermometer that looks like it has GREAT potential as an aid to mashing. The unit is about the size of half a pack of cigarettes and has a SS probe on about 18" of shielded wire. It's designed to read the internal temp of stuff you're BBQing like turkeys, etc and will read to about 350F. It has a built in timer and an alarm that beeps when a temp setting is reached. Price is $29.99! Item is the "Charcoal Companion Perfect Temp Thermometer, Product # 47-PT. Barbeques Galore (I'm not associated, humma, humma...) is a national chain and may be reached at 1 800 GRILLUP for the closest store or mail ordering. I didn't get one when I saw it, but most likely will soon. Anybody have any experience with this unit? Mac. (haszarda at stricom.army.mil) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 09:42:16 -0400 (EDT) From: ir358 at cleveland.Freenet.Edu (John Goldthwaite) Subject: Hop Profiles Pt III Eroica--Domestic--All Purpose Bred by open pollination of Brewer's Gold. Poor Storageability. Better aroma than many high alpha acid hops. Suitable for general bittering. Alpha Acid: 11-13% Beta Acid: 4-5.5% Aroma: Quite strong but not unpleasant. Storage: 55-65% Used For: bittering and good aroma for high alpha hops (use sparingly). Pale ales, dark ales and Stouts Substitutions: Chinook,Cluster,Galena,Nugget. Fuggle--Domestic--Finishing Traditional aroma hop, appeared in 1875 England. Also known over- seas as Styrian Golding. Alpha Acid: 4-5.5% Beta Acid: 1.5-2% Aroma: Mild and pleasant, spicy, soft, woody. (Harrelson?) Storage: 60-65% Used For: Finishing, Dry hopping. English ales, especially Pale ales, Porters, Stouts. Substitutions: Willamette, East Kent Goldings, Styrian Goldings. Galena--Domestic--Bittering Bred from Brewer's Gold by open pollination. Excellent high alpha acid hop with balanced bittering profiles paired with acceptable hop aroma. Alpha Acid: 12-14% Beta Acid: 7-9% Aroma: Medium but pleasant hoppiness. Storage: 75-80% Used For: Very bitter, but blends well with finishing hops. American ales and lagers. Suitable for all beer styles. Subs: Nugget, Cluster, Chinook. Hallertau--Domestic--Finishing This is the US version of the German Hallertau (below) Alpha: 4-6% Beta: 3.5-4.5% Aroma: mild, pleasant and slightly flowery. Storage: 45% Used For: Good all around bittering and finishing. Stock ales, Altbiers, Belgian ales, and Continental style lagers. Subs: Mt. Hood, Liberty, Crystal. Hallertau--Imported--(Germany)--Finishing Traditionally a superior German aroma hop. Excellent flavor. Alpha: 3.5-5.5% Beta: 3-4% Aroma: Mild to semi-strong, the most popular aroma variety. Storage: 50-60% Used For: Versatile bittering and finishing. Wheats, Altbiers, Pilseners, Belgian ales, American and German lagers. Subs: Mt. Hood, Liberty, Crystal. Only 14 left. Should be about 4 more installments. - -- BREWMOREBEER BREWMOREBEER BREWMOREBEER BREWMOREBEER BREWMOREBEER BREWMOREBEER BREWMOREBEER BREWMOREBEER BREWMOREBEER BREWMOREBEER! Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 08:44:23 -0700 From: brewshop at coffey.com (Jeff Sturman) Subject: filters I have no experience with beer filters, but one of my customers wants one. I have literature for two different filters, one from Cedar Vintage and one from The Filter Store. Anybody have any experience with these filters? Or any other filters that seem to do the job? This customer has also seen a ceramic filter for home brewers but he can't remember the name of the manufacturer. Anyone? TIA Jeff casper, wy Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 97 19:19:51 PST From: "Rob Moline" <brewer at kansas.net> Subject: .Exotic Heat Exchanger/ Layered B & T./ Peated Porter/Malt Specs/ The Jethro Gump Report >From: Jim Elden <elden at accumedic.com>> >Subject: Electric Immersion Chiller > A discussion with a friend, who is well-versed >in air-conditioning technology, resulted in the idea >that we could construct an immersion chiller from 1) a recycled air-conditioner 2) a plate-sytle heat exchanger 3) a copper-coil immersion wort chiller 4) a circulator pump 5) propylene glycol (anti-freeze 50/50 might just do) >The idea would be to run the coolant from the air >conditioner through one side of the heat exchanger >and the glycol through the other. The glycol would >be circulated through the wort chiller coil. Why run glycol through the Heat Exchanger? Just run the beer through the side of the HE that you propse to connect to the immersion chiller. Ball valves on the cold side to throttle coolant flow through the cold side and a ball valve on the hot side to throttle pumped wort will do the job. >From: Eamonn McKernan <eamonn at atmosp.physics.utoronto.ca> >Subject: Black and Tan >Does anyone know how a Black and Tan works? Apparently pouring >Guiness >on top of Smithwicks creates a layered beer which is stable. I've never >seen one myself, but viscocity alone won't explain it to my satisfaction. >And if the SG of Guiness is higher (is it?) it should sink to the bottom. >Any thoughts? My B& T works with a pale ale and stout, the pale ale having a higher gravity than the stout. (My pale is made to a higher gravity than the stout expressly for this purpose.) The stout is gassed with a N2/CO2 blend, and is poured from the Guiness style faucet onto the convex side of a bent spoon. This layering lasts for the duration of the pint, the cascde of the stout is quite a show over the pale, as well. I have found that the long term (duration of the pint) effect of layering is lost if any of the components is missing....1) gravity differential, 2) gas blend on the stout, 3) guiness faucet, 4) spoon. At least this is how it works for me. >From: scotty at enaila.nidlink.com >Subject: Peated Malt and Porter Yeast >Can anybody give me any personal experiences with peated malt? I >have heard some people say that even in small amounts, it gives the >beer an 'open grave' taste. I have also heard that there are two >kinds. Light and Heavy. I am looking to use some in a porter. Any >recommendations on amount?? >Also, I was wondering, which yeast(from the Wyeast stable) would be >best for a porter? 1028?? I used 50 lbs of Hugh Baird Medium Peated malt in a recipe with 500 pounds of other grains, and it went to the final round at GABF, and received some nice compliments. But when I make it again, it will have from 50 to 75 % of the amount previously used. A little goes a long way! As for yeast, I could recommend a good dry one! Wyeast, isn't that the stuff you have to work with for 2 to 4 days before you can pitch it? Malt Spec's... Schreier ( and DWC malts from Schreier) have fairly decent malt spec's for their products, but without the lot number from the 50 pound bags, it is really pointless. If your homebrew shop would keep track of these lot numbers for each portion of the bag they re-package, it would be fairly easy to give photocopies of the latest malt numbers to each grain purchaser. If anyone wants a copy of the latest numbers for Schreier and DWC malts, send a SASE to the brewery and I'll shoot you off a copy. Jethro (Decoction? Why Bother!) Gump Rob Moline Little Apple Brewing Company 1110 Westloop, Manhattan, Kansas, 66502. "The More I Know About Beer, The More I Realize I Need To Know More About Beer!" Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 13:45:56 -0400 From: mcnallyg at gam83.npt.nuwc.navy.mil (Jeff) Subject: RE:> Alt recipe Hi All, Matt (mra at skyfry.com) recently asked about his altbier recipe and also about comercially available examples of the style. Mark (M257876 at sl1001.mdc.com) also asked about examples of the style. Back in Oct 96 (during the "ultimate 6-pack" thread), I posted a very similar question about examples of the altbier style. Responses I got indicate that Im Fuschen (sp?) and Hannen Alt are both available here in the US. Consensus was also that Zum Uerige (sp?) is the defining brew of this style, but it is only available at the brewery (brewpub?) in Dusseldorf. The only US made Alt that I have tried is Harpoon (and I'm not sure how authentic it is because I have not been able to try the others). The first batch of altbier that I brewed was based on a recipe posted here in the HBD by Curt Speaker (css2 at oas.psu.edu). It turned out very much like the Harpoon Alt, but with more hop flavor and aroma. Here are the recipes for the three batches of altbier that I have now brewed. Version 2 was entered in the BBC World Homebrew contest and did'nt score very well (it also had the least informative score sheets I've ever seen. I wont be entering anything this year.). Version 3 was recently entered in the Boston Wort Processor's homebrew competition and scored a 34 and took second place in it's category. I hope this info helps. If you brew any of the recipes, let me know how they turn out. version 1: 6.6 lb Ireks munich light LME (unhopped) 1 lb Munton&Fison light DME (unhopped) 1 lb Ireks munich malt (6 L ) 0.5 lb 60L crystal malt 0.25 lb 350L chocolate malt 1 oz northern brewer (pellets, 8.8%AA, 60 min) 1 oz hallertau (pellets, 4.0%AA, 25 min) 1 oz hallertau (pellets, 4.0%AA, 10 min) 1 oz hallertau (pellets, 3.1%AA, 0 min) 1.5 tsp irish moss (rehydrated, 15 min boil) Wyeast #1338 (1 qt starter) 5 oz corn sugar (priming) - mashed all grains at 158F for 60 min - 60 min, 3 gal boil - chilled, aerated, and added cold water to make total of 5 gal - fermented at 68-72F IBU = 30 (approx) OG = 1.057 FG = 1.012 4 days in primary (SG = 1.017 into secondary) 13 days in secondary version 2: 6.6 lb Ireks munich light LME (unhopped) 1 lb DWC munich (6 L) 1.5 lb DWC pale (1.8 L) 8 oz M&F crystal (60 L) 4 oz M$F chocolate (350 L) 1 oz northern brewer (whole, 8.8%AA, 60 min) 0.25 oz hallertau (whole, 3.2%AA, FWH) 1 oz hallertau (whole, 3.2%AA, 30 min) 1 oz hallertau (whole, 3.2%AA, 15 min) 1 oz hallertau (whole, 3.2%AA, 2 min) 1.5 tsp irish moss (rehydrated, 15 min boil) Wyeast #1338 (1 qt starter) 4.5 oz corn sugar (priming) - mashed all grains at 156F for 60 min - full boil, 60 min IBU = 44.6 OG = 1.052 FG = 1.014 15 days total in primary and secondary at 62F 30 days in secondary at 42F version 3: 3.5 lb M&F extra light DME (unhopped) 3 lb Ireks pilsner (1.5 L) 1.5 lb DWC munich (6 L) 1 lb Wyermans munich (6.5 L) 4 oz DWC cara-munich (72 L) 2 oz M&F chocolate (350 L) 8 oz white wheat (2 L) 1 oz perle (whole, 7.0%AA, 60 min) 1 oz crystal (whole, 4.2%AA, 40 min) 1 oz crystal (whole, 4.2%AA, 20 min) 1 oz crystal (whole, 4.2%AA, 3 min) 1.5 tsp irish moss (rehydrated, 15 min boil) Wyeast #1007 (1 qt starter) - mashed all grains at 154F for 60 min - full boil, 60 min - oxynated with O2 - fermented at 60F - kegged IBU = 45.6 OG = 1.048 FG = 1.006 Hoppy brewing, Jeff ============================================================================== Geoffrey A. McNally Phone: (401) 841-7210 x152 Mechanical Engineer Fax: (401) 841-7250 Launcher Technology & Analysis Branch email: mcnallyg at gam83.npt.nuwc.navy.mil Naval Undersea Warfare Center Code 8322; Bldg. 1246/2 Newport, RI 02841-1708 Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 97 11:53 PDT From: cburns at egusd.k12.ca.us (Charles Burns) Subject: What makes a nut brown a "NUT" brown I'm working up a recipe that hopefully comes close to DownTown Brown from the Lost Coast Brewing Co in Eureka CA. They call it a "nut" brown, I call it malty and chewy, lightly hopped and yummy. Any advice on giving it a "nutty" flavor (no I won't add pecans). Charley Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 12:59:03 -0700 From: Charles Burns <cburns at egusd.k12.ca.us> Subject: re:haze Adam Rich asks about chill haze (among other things in hbd#2391): Adam, is the beer hazy when its room temp or only after chilled. If its hazy at room temp then its starch haze and your conversion just isn't finished. if its hazy only when chilled then its probably protein. I follow a similar mash pattern for the same reasons (body). I have been experimenting lately in an attempt to get the body without the sweetness that a high mash temp will give you. In any case, I find the chill haze will actually drop out in a beer that's cold stored for 3-4 weeks. I now use kegs 100% and find that after 3-4 weeks in the fridge (dedicated refrigerator) the beer suddenly clears almost overnight. Charley Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 97 15:03:32 CDT From: jwilkins at imtn.tpd.dsccc.com (John Wilkinson) Subject: RE: dwc pale ale malt Al K wrote: >I find that DeWolf-Cosyns Pale Ale malt >is far less modified than many *Pilsner* malts. When I use DWC Pale >Ale malt, if I don't do a protein rest (I do it at 135 to 140F), I get >a half-gallon of cold break in the fermenter! This is far too much, in >my opinion and this is why I have taken to doing a protein rest with >this malt whenever I use it. and Mark Bayer wrote: >dwc pale ale malt is really the main ale malt i use, and i've noticed a lot >of break material also. my infusion mashed ales this fall ended up with >trub in the bottles (no protein rest). The first time I used DWC Pils malt I asked in HBD about its level of modification. Several seemingly knowledgeable people assured me that this malt was highly modified and required no protein rest. I have done three batches of Czech Pilsner with it since the first of the year with single infusion mashes and no protein rest and noticed no more trub than with English pale ale malt. Al asked about the DWC pale ale malt and I have not used it but included his post because it was referred to by Mark. My wort from the pils mashes was not crystal clear but after fermenting, lagering a couple of months at ~34F, and fining with gelatin my beer is crystal clear from the tap. John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas - jwilkins at imtn.dsccc.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 17:20:07 +0000 From: "John Robinson" <robinson at novalis.ca> Subject: Broken Thermometer Does anyone know the composition of Dairy Thermometer? I broke the outer glass (not the inner one containing mercury) in my brew kettle during my brewing session this weekend. I don't think that many of the beads or much of the adhesive goop got into the brew kettle. I suspect that the beads are a lead alloy but I don't know the composition or toxicity of the white goop that holds them together. I boiled the broken thermometer in water, and none of the compounds appeared to disolve. Additionally there were no off flavors in the wort after the boil. We'll see what it is like after the fermentation is complete. In the meantime, if anyone can tell me anything about the materials used, this would be very helpful. - --- John Robinson "When I am working on a problem I never think about beauty. Software Developer I only think about how to solve the problem. But when I NovaLIS Technologies have finished, if the solution is not beautiful, I know robinson at novalis.ca it is wrong." - Buckminster Fuller (1895-1983) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 16:22:26 -0400 (EDT) From: DJBrew at aol.com Subject: Briess Pale Malts A few days ago there were some postings about Briess Pale malts. This information comes from Briess. There manufacture A 2-row Brewers malt & 2-row Pale ale Malt. They are both 100% Harrington. The pale ale malt is kiln off high temperature which gives it more color, more flavor & aroma and a lower diastatic power. Otherwise they are very similar. He is what they write about their malts. 2-row Pale ale color (Lov) 1.5-2.0 3.2-3.6 Aroma/Flavor Aromatic Very Aromatic Diastatic Power 140 100 Briess is also making some new caramel malts. Their standard caramel malts are made from 6-row barley. They now have 40, 60, & 80 Lov caramels that are made from 2-row barley. Hope this is of some help. Keep Brewin' Dan Soboti Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 17:24:01 +0000 From: "John Robinson" <robinson at novalis.ca> Subject: Ireks Vienna Malt A local homebrew shop just brought some of this in and I used it to make a Marzen over the weekend. I was wondering if anyone else had any experience with this brand of Vienna malt, and specifically was wondering if it fit with the comments that George and Laurrie Fix made regarding European Vienna malts (not much better than vienna malt from domestic 6 row, which is to say bad). In addition, can anyone recomend one or more great brands of Vienna malt? To qualify (in my mind at least) as great they would have to be made from the same quality malt as pilsner malt, and have very low nitrogen levels.... - --- John Robinson "When I am working on a problem I never think about beauty. Software Developer I only think about how to solve the problem. But when I NovaLIS Technologies have finished, if the solution is not beautiful, I know robinson at novalis.ca it is wrong." - Buckminster Fuller (1895-1983) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 14:15:26 -0700 From: Dean Larson <Dean.Larson at gonzaga.edu> Subject: decoction and lautering wheat beers brian wrote: > a question: does decoction offer lautering benefits when using mashes >containing a relatively high (50 - 70%) proportion of malted wheat? given the >discussion, if there's no lautering benefit, i may start experimenting with >infusion mashed weizen . . . it would be nice to be able to chop a bit of time >off the process. Mark responded: >>i have read that decoction makes lautering easier for wheat beers. the >>boiling >>gives you a head start on protein coagulation, and this makes the wort >>easier to run off. i believe eric warner's book on german wheat beers >>discusses this. if i'm not mistaken, he compares the viscosities of barley >>mashes versus typical wheat beer mashes and the latter have higher viscosity, >>which causes slower runoffs. there's an oxidation issue there also, if i >>remember correctly. if you oxidize the mash liquor before running it off, >>it runs off slower. decoction mashing is mentioned as an aid to the typical >>wheat mash viscosity/runoff problem. A data point. I recently decided to try my hand at decoction mashing. As an ale brewer, a weizen seemed like the only brew in my arsenal where a decoction was really "true to syle" so brewed one based on a recipe in Eric Warner's book and used his suggested single decoction mash schedule. Grist was 6# wheat malt, 3# domestic two row. The mash went more or less like this: dough in at about 104F, heat to 122F and hold for 45 minutes, pull a decoction, heat to 160, hold for 20 minutes, continue heating to boil, boil 20 minutes, return to main mash (still at 122F) to bring main mash to 140F, hold 30 minutes, heat to 158F, hold 30 minutes, heat to 168 for mashout. I mash in a 5 gal SS pot, so here heating refers to heating on my electric stove while stirring continuously. The next week I decided to see if the time consuming decoction process was all it was cracked up to be and brewed a batch with the identical grain and hop bill, but used a step infusion mash. Mash temperature schedule was identical to the first batch. The step from 122 to 140 was done with an infusion of boiling water. Just bottled batch #1, so no taste comparisons are yet available. Two observations however: 1. No noticeable difference in lautering. In both batches runoff was clear after my usual amount of recirculating and continued smoothly throughout the sparge. 2. Extraction rates were virtually identical (within 0.5 ppg) between the two batches with the infusion batch being a smidgen higher. So, from a strictly procedural point of view, the decoction process didn't seem to add any benefits, while adding about 2 hours to my usual brew time. Some questions for the experts: Is the stated lautering benefit of a decoction mash really due to the decoction process, or is it maybe a consequence of the various protein rests which usually take place in a decoction? I'd always heard decocting should increase extraction. Is there any reason to believe this should be the case with a grist of 66% wheat malt, 33% domestic 2 row? I'm glad I tried the decoction mash (hey, I'll try anything once), but unless it results in a noticeable flavor improvement I don't know that I'd revisit the process. Skol, Dean Larson Spokane, WA Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 97 15:02 PDT From: cburns at egusd.k12.ca.us (Charles Burns) Subject: Apology to Culver City Home Brewing In private email, it was pointed out to me that my recent posts regarding my frustrations with suppliers could be construed as a slam against the Culver City Home Brewing Supply Co. Please accept my apology. I'm sorry that my frustrations got carried away, I in now way intended to slam anyone (what goes around comes around). I'm just having difficulty getting accurate information and one of the local shops definitely lied to me and I guess I let too much of that frustration come through. My hat's off to Culver City for actually attempting to get some of the malt information out to us, and I hope they really can get more details about the Gambrinus Malts. Sorry for my lack of tact. Humbled in N. California, Charley - --------------------------------------------------------------- Charles Burns, Director, Information Systems Elk Grove Unified School District cburns at egusd.k12.ca.us, http://www.egusd.k12.ca.us 916-686-7710 (voice), 916-686-4451 (fax) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 20:00:31 -0500 (CDT) From: Hal Davis <davis at planolaw.com> Subject: Mead making info Could someone please point me to the internet resources available on meadmaking? I've made a couple of batches of mead, but I have some very mead-specific questions, especially about yeast selection and suggestions for recipes for the honeys I have on hand. Thanks. Hal Davis Proprietor, the Safety Brewery, Plano, Texas Member North Texas Home Brewers Association Ignorance can be cured. Return to table of contents