---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@ brew.oeonline.com
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Notice to BrewingTechniques contributors (BTEditor)
  Hop Profiles Pt VI (John Goldthwaite)
  RE:Cooler mash tun (John Wilkinson)
  Mash Efficiency... (Tim.Watkins)
  Re: fast maturing beers (James Murphy)
  Gnome Beverage Co. (Greg Moore - SMCC BOS Hardware Engineering)
  Hot water (Doobyjj)
  Malt Analysis (Marcy A Harris)
  Re: Pseudo-decoction (Jim Bentson)
  hot water questions ("Raymond Estrella")
  Re: haze question (DepThought)
  Subsciber list ("RICHARD DRAKE")
  Gelatinization reply. (Charlie Scandrett)
  Tower System (Mark Ellis)
  little bottles (Hal Davis)
  cloudy beer (Chris Storey)
  Wooden Casks (John C Peterson)
  PID controllers (John_E_Schnupp)
  Candi Sugar ("R. Moore")
  Wooden casks and hand pumps (Mike Spinelli)
  Re: Harpoon Alt (Kit Anderson)
  F/C difference in malt (Jeff Renner)
  Two Questions (Art McGregor)
  st. louis brewpubs (dleone)
  Grain Crush/Freudian Slips (eric fouch)
  Thermometers ("Craig Rode")
  Color and Caramel Taste Question (Charles Burns)
  Guinness, sparklers ("Bryan L. Gros")
  Re: use of aroma hops ("Jens P.Maudal")
  Pick up some points,judge at the SE AHA nationals (egross)
  Mash out starch (John Wilkinson)
  Re: F/C difference in malt (korz)
  Thanks/Extract Recipe/Speical-B/Steeping vs. Partial Mash (JeffHailey)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 13:10:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: BTEditor at aol.com
Subject: Notice to BrewingTechniques contributors

Please forgive this self-interested use of the digest, but I can think of no
better way to reach the many BrewingTechniques contributors who frequent
these pages.

One of BrewingTechniques' hard drives crashed and took editorial data with
it.  All of the past articles/issues are archived, but submissions that were
current in the past two to three months and some submissions that were in
longer term development were lost.  Our major articles are fine. I am mostly
concerned about Readers' Tech Notes, letters to the editor, and the new and
longer-term submissions that hadn't reached final acceptance.

If you submitted anything to BrewingTechniques in the past three months or
sent any e-mail, we'd love for you to recontact us and resend your earlier
material. Send any and all inquiries to my associate editor, Deb Jolda, at
BTassoc at aol.com.

I know, shame on us.  This is one lesson in backups management that we'll
have to learn only once.

Stephen Mallery
BTeditor at aol.com

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Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 13:52:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: ir358 at cleveland.Freenet.Edu (John Goldthwaite)
Subject: Hop Profiles Pt VI

Saaz--Domestic--Finishing
U.S. equivalent of the Czech variety, but lacks some of the fine-
ness of aroma.

Alpha Acid: 3-4.5%    Beta Acid: 3-4.5%
Aroma: Very mild and pleasant, spicy and fragrant
Storage: 45-55%
Used For: Finishing, very flavorful. Pilseners,Continental lagers
and Wheats. 
Subs: Czech Saaz



Saaz--Imported (Czechoslovakia)--Finishing
Classical noble aroma hop with long and strong traditions. 
Associated with the renowned Pilsener lager. 

Alpha Acid: 3-4.5%    Beta Acid: 3-4.5%
Aroma: Very mild with pleasant hoppy notes. 
Storage: 45-55%
Used For: Finishing. Bohemian-style beers, Continental lagers,
Wheats, Pilsener lagers.
Subs: Tettnang (Only in a pinch), U.S. Saaz



Styrian Goldings--Imported (Slovenia)--Finishing
A world renowned aroma hop with widespread usage in both ale
and lager brewing. An ecotype of Fuggle grown in Slovenia.

Alpha Acid: 4.5-6%    Beta Acid: 2-3%
Aroma: Delicate, slightly spicy, soft and floral.
Storage: 65-80%
Used For: Bittering, finishing, dry hopping. english style
ales, Vienna/Oktoberfest lagers, Belgian ales, Pilseners.
Subs: Fuggle, Willamette.


- --
BREWMOREBEER BREWMOREBEER BREWMOREBEER BREWMOREBEER BREWMOREBEER
BREWMOREBEER BREWMOREBEER BREWMOREBEER BREWMOREBEER BREWMOREBEER!

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Date: Fri, 11 Apr 97 13:03:20 CDT
From: jwilkins at imtn.tpd.dsccc.com (John Wilkinson)
Subject: RE:Cooler mash tun

Joseph Bonner asked if the Igloo cooler was comparable to the Gott.
I use an Igloo as I, too, could not find a Gott.  I am satisfied with the
Igloo and it seems to be functionally equivalent to the Gott.  I have a friend
with a Gott and there seems to be very little difference between the two.
On both the spigot can be removed and replaced with a Fass-Frisch rubber bung
from the homebrew store (or Williams Brewing in Ca.) with a 1/2" o.d. tube
through the hole in the bung to the false bottom or manifold for a leak free
connection.  I have brewed a lot of beer in mine with no problem, at least
no problem with the cooler.  I do recommend a rigid tube inside the cooler to
prevent its collapse under the weight of the grain at temp.  I use a 1/2" o.d.
vinyl siphon hose with a section of cut off racking cane inside to provide
rigidity.  I also clamp the hose to my false bottom fitting to prevent knocking
it loose when stirring.  I learned about this the hard way.

I also modified my cooler recently for an automatic stirring device.  I had
an old gas grill rotisserie motor and used it for a stirrer.  I bought some
1/2" square aluminum shaft and filed one end to 1/4" square to fit into the
drive socket of the motor.  I cut two blades from aluminum bar stock and
attached them toward the other end of the shaft with small bolts through
holes drilled through the shaft.  I cut slots in the blades at top and bottom
near the shaft and twisted the blades toward the horizontal. I drilled a hole
with a spade bit in the Igloo lid for the shaft.  I drilled a hole through the
shaft near the top end for a rod to keep the shaft from dropping to the bottom
of the cooler and hanging up on the false bottom tubing.  I use a large washer
between the rod and the top of the lid for a bearing surface.  I insert the
shaft into the mash after mash in, put the lid over the top with the shaft
through the hole, next the washer, then the rod, then the shaft through the
hole in the handle, and attach the motor to the top of the shaft.  I plug it
in and walk away for two hours or so and let it stir and mash.  Now for the
caveats.  The motor I used had been unused for about 15 years and howled like
mad.  After several batches the gears stripped.  I bought another at service
merchandise complete with spit for $20US.  This lasted only one batch.  I am
looking for a motor with sturdier gearing.  Maybe an ice cream freezer motor?
I like the idea, though, and am not ready to abandon it yet.

As for Joseph's question about whether it was better to go to a partial
mash before trying all grain, my advice is to go ahead with all grain.
I don't think it is much, if any, more trouble.

John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas - jwilkins at imtn.dsccc.com

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Date: Fri, 11 Apr 97 14:31:11 EDT
From: Tim.Watkins at analog.com
Subject: Mash Efficiency...

Many thanks to the folks who responded to my question on how to increase my 
mash efficiency.
	After reading all the replies, here's what I plan to try differently 
on my next batch.

	I will mash in a single vessel, rather than splitting the mash.

	I will heat the mash to a mashout temperature (170F) approx.

	I'm also going to slow down my sparge.  I'm also wondering about 
channeling in my sparge.  I'm curious to find out, so what I plan on doing, 
is after I've collected 3 gallons of wort, I plan on stirring the grainbed, 
and then recirculating again.  I've got a suspicious feeling that this will 
help alot.

	I'll be brewing an IPA on sunday..  Wish me luck

Tim in Lowell, MA

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Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 12:25:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: James Murphy <murphy at gordy.ucdavis.edu>
Subject: Re: fast maturing beers

Hi all,

Thanks to everyone who sent me their suggestions for fast maturing beers.
Since I got alot of great feedback, and I'm sure this question will crop
up again, I thought I'd post a summary of the comments I've gotten so far.
The overwhelming consensus is that 5 weeks is sufficient time to produce a
decent beer, although most seemed to agree that the beer might taste a
bit "green," and have a little more sediment than usual.

GENERAL BREWING GUIDLINES 
 - keep SG below about 1.050 - 1.054 
 - keep the bitterness down (one person suggested keeping it under 35 IBU)  
 - in general, my concerns about "darker" ales are unfounded.  Porters,
brown ales, etc are ok if hops rates and OG are low.  
 - corn sugar seems to prime faster 
 - shorten primary and secondary times to a few days, and increase time in
the bottle.  If you crash chill when fermentation is complete, you can
skip the secondary altogether.  
 - here's the excuse I was looking for to start kegging 
 - may want to use slightly higher ferment temps (about 70F)  
 - WYeast 1056 seems to be the consensus choice for yeast.  It can ferment
at higher temps and maintain a clean taste, and it seems to mature quickly.  
 - use a huge starter 
 - using fruit extract might be a good idea to hide some of the "green"
beer taste, but definitely don't use fresh fruit which needs more time. 

APPROPRIATE STYLES
3 styles were mentioned most often: American wheat, amber ale, and fruit
ale with extract.  The consensus seemed to be that not only can these
mature quickly, but most people enjoy these styles.

Other styles mentioned include: Kolsh, pale ale, English ordinary bitter,
cream ale.

Thanks again to all who responded.

Jim Murphy - Davis, CA
jjmurphy at ucdavis.edu




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Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 15:24:11 -0400
From: Greg.Moore at East.Sun.COM (Greg Moore - SMCC BOS Hardware Engineering)
Subject: Gnome Beverage Co.


I'm trying to track down the address/phone number of the Gnome Beverage
Company.  If anyone here knows how to get in touch with these people, could
you forward the information to me?  They make an Old Fashioned Vanilla Cream
soda extract that I'd like to try.

TIA

 -=G
gmoore at wacko.east.sun.com
                            So much beer, so little time.  Drink hard.
             \\|// 
             (o o)
=========oOO==(_)==OOo===========   Please sir, may I have some more?


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Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 19:42:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: Doobyjj at aol.com
Subject: Hot water

Heeeeeeeeeyyyyyyyy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Stop right there......

Hot, or even warm, water makes most substances more soluble (meaning that
they dissolve more easily in hot water than cold water).

Lead from plumbing and crud from your hot water heater all will have a better
chance of getting into your wort.
 EEEEEeeewwwwwwww!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Even if you do not have "hard" water there are many compounds that will build
up in your hot water heater..

I have always been taught that the general rule is ....

WATER THAT HAS RUN THROUGH A HOT WATER HEATER IS NOT FOR HUMAN
CONSUMPTION..........

 

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Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 20:11:11 EDT
From: m-d-harris at juno.com (Marcy A Harris)
Subject: Malt Analysis

I just got a recent malt analysis(dated 3-6-97) for the current lot of
Durst malts available at my local homebrew store(Austin Homebrew Supply)
and thought I'd share.

		Pilsen	Munich	Vienna	Wheat	
Moisture		4.0	4.5	3.9	5.0	
Extract,Dry	82.4	82.2	81.7	85.9
Extract Difference	1.6	1.5	1.4	1.0
Protein in Dry	10.3	10.6	10.5	11.4
Kolbach index	41.9	44.1	43.8	42.2
Color of Wort(EBC)	2.8	20.6	6.0	3.4
Soluble nitrogen	0.690	0.751	0.737	0.769
pH		5.89	5.63	5.69
Diastatic Power	281	173	169
Betaglucan	173	207	206
FAN		152	205	185

Crystal Malts	40 EBC	120 EBC	200 EBC
Moisture		7.5	5.6	5.3
Extract Dry	75.4	76.8	71/4
Color of Wort(EBC)	42.0	125	220

All above malts purchased through G.W. Kent, Inc.
I do not profess to understand all of the above, just thought I'd pass
along the information. I can probably also get analyses for Pauls, Great
Western and Hugh Baird malts pretty easily. 
On a related note for Layne Rossi, FAN stands for Free Amino Nitrogen,
which is important for healthy yeast metabolism and fermentation.
If any one is interested in any additional malt analyses, please contact
me by private e-mail.

David Harris, Austin Texas

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Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 21:23:36 -0400
From: Jim Bentson <jbentson at htp.net>
Subject: Re: Pseudo-decoction

  Mark Bayer and Charley Peterson have commented on the post I made on a
pseudo-decoction technique for increasing maltiness in ales by pointing out
that lager malts actually should have higher enzyme potential than pale ale
malts.

I may have made an error in quoting the brewer. In reviewing my notes, I
realize that he had simply told me that there were plenty of enzymes left in
the mash with this technique. In typing I added the part about lager malts
having less enzymes, so any error is mine.  However, the method I described
is used after the protein rest so we are concerned with the potential
destruction of diastatic enzymes. It was these enzymes that I was comparing.

If you go to the table in Papzian's 'The Home Brewers Companion', you can
see that depending on the type of base malt used, the lager malts could have
more or less Diastatic Power than other base malts. Mark and Charlie are
correct for my example of a English Pale base malt. Here the DP of 45 is low
compared to 75 DP for English lager but a base of Klages two row is 120 DP
which is considerably higher than a lager or pils. Obviously it could go
either way depending on the base malt. My mistake was to use the term Pale
malt instead of base malt in my general description.

 The fact remains that there are sufficient enzymes in most base malts to
get full conversion in spite of the fact that part of the liquid is being
boiled before mash-out


I was asked about the type of base malt used in the beers I described. The
actual base malt that was used was Crisp Pale Malt which is  also found here
on the East Coast. 

  The comments from Charley raised a more interesting question that I hadn't
thought about. If lagers  have the enzyme power quoted, would this method
work with lagers? That is,  will it give an increased maltiness over step
infusion, with less time and work than the true decoction???  Mark Bayer
thought the method would work based on the fact that even pils malts
available today are modified further than old malts. I have never tried it
on lager malts but intend to. 

As a data point I can state that when tasting  wheat beers made this new
way( with a Pale Malt base) and comparing to Paulaner (spelling?)  bottled
hefe-weissen (not a completely fair comparison) I don't notice any lack of
flavor in the beers crafted by the method described.

 BTW I agree that this is not a true decoction as no grain is being boiled
but it is also not a  step infusion either. Maybe it should be called a
'defusion' since it has elements of both.


 Jim Bentson
Centerport LI NY
- --
Registered ICC User
check out http://www.usefulware.com/~jfoltz



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Date: Sat, 12 Apr 97 12:56:00 UT
From: "Raymond Estrella" <ray-estrella at msn.com>
Subject: hot water questions

 I am very interested in the hot water-heater thread going on right now,
even though there seem to be more questions than answers. I too have 
always been told that water from the hot water heater (HWH) was not fit for 
consumption, that it has a lot of precipitated minerals caused by the 
heating element. I know that some people use HWH elements mounted in 
brew kettles for their sparging tanks, and some that have them in their boil 
kettles. What makes this any different than a HWH? 
 I filter my brew water with a large carbon canister filter, and then heat it.
Does anyone in the collective know if it is feasible, or possible to run the 
water from a HWH, then through a filter, and on to your tun. There by
removing your normal load of undesirables, and the calcified minerals?
I suppose that you would end up changing your filter more frequently.
If you only brew every 2 -4 weeks you could flush it out so that it is not 
sitting full of water, getting stale. Any homebrewing Plumbers out there?
(Sure, you know how Jackson refers to beers being a good digestif,
wait 'till you try my Roto-rooter Wee-wee Heavy)

Ray Estrella   Cottage Grove   MN
ray-estrella at msn.com

    *******Never relax, constantly worry, have a better homebrew.*******


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Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 09:30:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: DepThought at aol.com
Subject: Re: haze question

Adam Smith said:
>	I have a problem with chill haze and it seems to occur in nearly all of my
>ales.  I now wonder if it is due to my mash procedure?  I brew all-grain
>and usually, almost always, do a single-step infusion mash. 
[big snip]
>I do not remove
>cold break, or hot break for that matter.  I transfer to a secondary, thus
>leaving behind some trub and hop pellets, in 3-6 days.  Then another week
>in the secondary and bottle. 
Chill haze=protien=break, therefore you need to get some of that break out of
there.
Personally, I just stir the pot and let the trub settle, then siphon
carefully. I'm also
considering a hop-back to filter more of it out.

If you choose to do a protien rest to reduce the break, I recommend a high
temp
(130-135F). The low temp rest you mentioned wouldn't greatly degrade the
larger
protiens, and the high temp rest would greatly increase middle weight
protiens,
increasing mouth feel and possibly helping the body problems you mentioned.

Pat King
DepThought at aol.com

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Date: Sat, 12 Apr 97 21:59:42 UT
From: "RICHARD DRAKE" <HARDROCKENGR at msn.com>
Subject: Subsciber list

HBDers,

A few weeks ago there was some discussion of the availability of the HBD 
subscriber list. This list WAS available to the general public at the 
beginning of this year. I am a computer newbie and brewer who just subscribed 
to the HBD in December. To see how many people were subscribers I found that I 
could download the subscriber list. Don't ask me how I found this out because 
I don't remember, I was a total newbie at the time ( only had a computer for 
one month and online for less). I haven't spoken up before because I could not 
locate the file, until now. Much to the chagrin of the AHA the file came as 
follows:

From:  majordomo at aob.org 
To:  Richard Drake
subject: majordomo results: subscriber list 

I received it on 1-15-97 at 8:10 PM MST. 
So, maybe, now I can spam all your e-mail or better yet sell the list to the 
pros (sorry, BAD joke). What a wonderful thing this internet is!

This should at least put the debate to rest. If anyone needs proof I've got 
it, but it is a long file. BTW, I opened it using Word 97 as my e-mail editor 
and it took several minutes to read all the e-mail addresses and highlight 
them as links, big mistake.

Rick Drake
hardrockengr at msn.com


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Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 08:59:02 +1000 (EST)
From: Charlie Scandrett <merino at buggs.cynergy.com.au>
Subject: Gelatinization reply.

Mark Bayer wrote
>charlie wrote
>>No, enzymes are not piranhas, they are catalysts. Starch needs to be in
>>solution in the form of a SOL or GEL. Insoluble but wet starch (ie
>>ungelatinised) can be helped (when wet)in becoming a GEL by alpha amlayse,
>>but heat does the job more effectively and faster.

>okay, i admit that's probably an inaccurate analogy.  you wouldn't see a
>jacques cousteau film in a microscope, but the basic point i was trying to 
>make is that you can't get starch to saccharify (or, first,  gelatinize) if 
>it's bound up in a big starch grit.  it needs to be physically broken out, 
>either by gradual gelatinization from the outside (the sharks),

Actually I loved the shark analogy, Cousteau in my mash too! The point I was
making was that it is inaccurate for other reasons. Enzymes are dissolved
very quickly and water penetrates all starchy pieces of grain very quickly,
regardless of size (except balls). My point is that the thermomechanical
process (swelling)is the main method of gelatinisation. Flour only allows
the water in the finer starchy particles to heat more quickly and effectively. 

> or by physically crushing the grit into pieces to expose more surface area
>for gelatinization and subsequent saccharification. i'm not mashing at 140
>degrees, charlie.  i'm not sure why you believe my
>problem is primarily with gelatinization.  my mashes don't gelatinize as much
>as they should because i have big starch grits from a two roller mill. that's
>a crush problem first.  the gelatinization problem comes after.

Well, my response would be that: 
1/ area *is* important (i.e. flour over larger particles) for heat
penetration, 2/ starchy particles become wet faster than most brewers think
they do,
3/ the enzymes are *in* the particle, not just attacking from outside (i.e.
size is not relevant to rate of enzymic action, extraction yes),
4/ heat is the most important gelatinisation process
5/ the range of gelatinisation is greater than most brewers think and is
usually not complete in 1.5 hours at < 70C (158F), by enzymic action or heat.

An all-flour starch crush is hypothetical and the six roller professional
millers don't try it even though they can seperate the husk portion before
the final crush. For practical reasons, starch flour has more disadvantages
in mashing in and lautering than advantages in accelerating gelatinization.
That remains largely temperature/time dependent.

Charlie (Brisbane, Australia)
        


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Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 02:40:38 GMT
From: Mark Ellis <mellis at gribbles.com.au>
Subject: Tower System

Hi Homebrewer's,

I am having all sorts of trouble getting hold of concise info on the tower
system style of mashing etc. Could somebody please point me in the right
direction so I can get one of these little babies on the production line.
thanks guys!!!!!!!!!

Mark Ellis
Computer Services
Gribbles Pathology Pty. Ltd.
mellis at gribbles.com.au


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Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 16:55:32 -0500 (CDT)
From: Hal Davis <davis at planolaw.com>
Subject: little bottles

Greets:

I've called every bottle distributor in the Dallas yellow pages to no avail:
I'm looking for 6 to 7 ounce bottles for bottling mead, regular crown cap
(no screwies), and preferably in brown glass. I only need about 300 bottles,
but I could go as high as 1000 if I needed to. Anybody know of a source for
fewer than 5 truckloads?

Hal Davis

Proprietor, the Safety Brewery, Plano, Texas
Member North Texas Home Brewers Association

Ignorance can be cured. 


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Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 22:18:13 +0000 (GMT)
From: Chris Storey <cstorey at knet.flemingc.on.ca>
Subject: cloudy beer

Greetings, Homebrewers. I have just finished bottling my second batch
using a partial mash procedure. The problem is that both batches are very
cloudy. The first is 1 week old and is not clearing at all. My second
batch is the same way. What did I do wrong? I used an infusion mash with
both batches. Ingredients were- 4.5 lbs. pale malt syrup and 4 lbs. 2-row
pale malted barley. It really dosen't taste that great. I have had better
tasting beers using straight extracts. I will not go all-grain (which I
really want to) until I get better results with this procedure. Thanking
anyone in advance for any help.

Chris Storey




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Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 02:52:22 EDT
From: petersonj1 at juno.com (John C Peterson)
Subject: Wooden Casks

I came across a catalog that sold wooden, white oak casks.  This is one
topic I haven't seen in six months of subscribing.  Anyone out there use
these?  Do they make a difference or is it just in the mind?

It just sounds appealing to have a fine ale conditioning in a wooden cask
in the basement.  BTW, these babies are EXPENSIVE!  Ten times the price
of a carboy.  Is there anyone with ideas on how to get them cheaper? 
Anyone try  making one?

John C. Peterson
Aurora, Colorado
petersonj1 at juno.com
http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/6841

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Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 02:30:11 -0700
From: John_E_Schnupp at amat.com
Subject: PID controllers





Louis writes:
>And whatever you do, *don't* hook up a PID controller to your
>brewing fridge -- you'll fry your fridge's compressor in very
>short order.

Yes and no.  I use a PID controller from a company called
Watlow.  It is an auto-tuning, 1 TC input, 2 output programmable
controller.  I have mine set up as on/off cooling.  My fridge
cycles on about as frequently as using on of the capillary tube
controllers, such as the ones sold thru many mail order places.

brewing in the Green Mountains,
John Schnupp, N3CNL
Colchester, VT
john_e_schnupp at amat.com



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Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 12:44:58 +0000
From: "R. Moore" <moorere at nassau.navy.mil>
Subject: Candi Sugar

	A Belgian question...

	I know that Candi Sugar, such as is used in Belgian Ale making, is 
basically rock candy.  Has anyone out there actually made it, and if 
so, how?  Also, how did it work out in your recipe?

Thanks in advance,

R. Moore
Proprietor & Braumeister
War Admiral Picobrewery







Interesting Profundity of the Day:
 
 Mediocrity thrives on standardization. 


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Date: Mon, 14 Apr 97 08:04:58 est
From: paa3983 at dpsc.dla.mil (Mike Spinelli)
Subject: Wooden casks and hand pumps

HBDers,
Does anyone out there cask condition their beer in real wooden casks?

Reason I ask is I just had the pleasure of sampling 1 of only 3 wooden casks in
the entire U.S. of Young's Old Nick , and it looked really cool sitting atop the
bar being gravity poured.

I'm a confirmed bottler and have no plans nor room to get into kegging my brew. 
But I AM thinking of those few times in the year when I may have a party and
would like to make, say, 10 gallons and stick the whole batch in a cask only to
be consumed on that one day, either by gravity or hand pump.

Any thoughts?

Mike Spinelli
Cherry Hill NJ    


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Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 09:20:33 -0400
From: Kit Anderson <kit at maine.com>
Subject: Re: Harpoon Alt

Al K wrote:

> I have not tried Harpoon
>Alt... we got one or two Harpoon Ales here a few years ago, but
>the Alt was not one of them.

It is sweet without being malty and has more diacetyl than anything Samuel
Smith produces. Phooey.
My local German restaurant has Schlosser (sp?) on tap. Friends that have
been to Dusseldorf say that this is was their favorite when there and that
it travelled well. It was dry with a balanced finish and no hop aroma or
flavor. It would probably not do well in a homebrew competition.

- ---
Kit Anderson			"Welcome to Northeast Texas-
Bath, Maine			a survival guide for Texans in New England"
				http://members.aol.com/garhow1/kit/index.htm

Maine Beer Page			http://www.maine.com/brew	
				


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Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 09:35:17 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: F/C difference in malt

Al Korzonas wrote in HBD 2396:

>Note in rjlee's  post from HBD #2391, that DWC Pils F/C

>ratio is 2.0.  This is higher than most.  The higher the F/C ratio is,
the

>lower the modification of the malt.  The F/C ratio is the difference

>between a fine crush (lab wort) and a course crush (real brewer's
wort).


F/C is not a ratio, but a per cent difference, as he implied in the
last quoted sentence above.


Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-

Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu


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Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 09:11:43 -0500 (EST)
From: Art McGregor <mcgregap at acq.osd.mil>
Subject: Two Questions

Hi Everyone!

   Just a few questions.  I just brewed a batch this weekend, and did a small
partial mash.  I put 4 lbs of crushed grains in a grain bag and added 2 gallons
of water, and kept at about 150 degrees F for about 1 hour, then removed grain
bag and added LME and more water for a 3 gallon volume boil.  I did not sparge
as in the traditional mash method.  Why is it necessary to sparge, why not just
add more initial water for the mash, and only drain, not sparge?  I know that a
big reason is the capacity of the mash container, but are there other reasons
such as pH, or astringency, or others?
   The other question is on the terminology of "top fermenting" ale yeast.? 
It's hard to really tell where the bubbles are coming from due to the
turbulence of the fermentation, but why do the bubbles of CO2 seem like they
are rising in the carboy from down near the bottom if the yeast is supposed to
be on the top?  Just curious :^)  

Art McGregor (Lorton, Virginia - USA)
(day: mcgregap at acq.osd.mil)
(night: apmcgregor at nmaa.org)


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Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 09:16:49 -0500
From: dleone at gw.stlnet.com
Subject: st. louis brewpubs


hey there, we have a couple of good places to go in st. louis.  on the
landing (the riverfront) check out the morgan st. brewery.  near locust and
20th is schafley brewery also know as the taproom.  both places are in
historic buildings and you can check out the beer making process.  in st.
charles there is the trailshead brewery on 5th street.  st charles is just
outside of st. louis on the missouri river. quaint historic downtown. also
in st. charles and near hwy 270 and olive in st. louis are growlers pubs.
supposedly they offer about 100 different brews.  never been to either
location, but i would like to check it out.  hope this helps. questions or
for more detail, just email me.
"love animals, don?t eat them"
don leone
dleone at stlnet.com
http://home.stlnet.com/~dleone/index.html



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Date: Mon, 14 Apr 97 09:56 EST
From: eric fouch <S=eric_fouch%S=fouch%G=eric%DDA=ID=STC021+pefouch%Steelcase-Inc at mcimail.com>
Subject: Grain Crush/Freudian Slips


Date: Monday, 14 April 1997 10:52am ET
To: STC012.PREQUEST at STC010.SNADS
From: Eric.Fouch at STC001
Subject: Grain Crush/Freudian Slips
In-Reply-To: The letter of Monday, 14 April 1997 2:16am ET
 
HBD-
 
The last batch (all-grain) I brewed had dismal extraction.  I took full
responsibility, since I allowed a "questionable" crush sneak through:
It looked like each grain had been crushed, but the husk was fully intact-
I added 2 Tbs.. water to the grain, which in the past made for a much more
pliable husk during the grind.  This time, though, the kernels seemed to be
shattered inside the husks, which came apart fairly easily when rolled between
my fingers.  I said to myself "Self, this may be perfect]- After swelling with
water and being heated, the starches and sugars should burst forth from the
husks, leaving the husks nearly intact, and give a heavenly sparge."
Well, it did sparge very easily, but I only got about 16 pts.  The husks held
together too well, and interfered with conversion, extraction or both.
As I said, I took full responsibility, but now, after reading Mark Bayers
note;
 
as long as you don't have a lot more than, say, 5 or 10 per cent by weight
kernels that pass through *completely unscathed*, it's probably not
the crush.  grab a handful of the crushed malt and inspect it. is there a
 
Since he says *completely unscathed*, I can now blame *him* ;>
 
Mark also says:
 
eric fouch wrote:
 
> reply to me via e-mail with the appropriate responses (which hopefully
>won't include "Piss up a rope").
then he signs the bottom,
 
>Bent Dick YactoBrewery
 
 hmmmm.  it appears the rope-pissing comment was a serious request.
 
O.K.- I guess I should check with my psychoanalyst to see what exactly
I'm trying to say here.  I was actually thinking of getting a picture
of Pres. Richard Nixon in the infamous "I am not a crook" pose for labels-
hence the "Bent Dick" part.  Really, that's what I meant.  Really.
 
Eric Fouch
Efouch at steelcase.com
The "Very Small Brewery Commemorating the Service of a Slightly
Less-Than-Scrupulous Ex-President of the United States of America"
Really.
Sheeesh]]
Where's NOKOMAREE when you really need him/her/it? :-)



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Date: 14 Apr 1997 11:38:33 +0600
From: "Craig Rode" <craig.rode at qmcin4.sdrc.com>
Subject: Thermometers

"A man who owns one watch always knows what time it is.  A man with two is
never sure."--Unknown.

The same, it seems, applies to thermometers.  Recently, I purchased one of
those nifty dial thermometers that are ubiquitous in brewshops.  I was
attracted to the "instantaneous" measurement this would give me.  For the past
6 years, I've been using the standard floating dairy thermometer.  As I'm an
all grain brewer, accurate temperatures are important to me.  Well, guess
what?  They don't agree.  Worse, they disagree non-linearly.  Since the dial
thermometer is adjustable, I simply turned it until it matched the dairy at
room temp.  However, then they were off by 8 degrees in the 150-160F range. 
Horrors! When adjusted in this range...(Ow that's hot!) they disagreed by a
like amount in the 100-110F range.  

Ok, which thermometer is more likely to be right?  I'm assuming that SOME of
you have used both.  Does your experience match mine?  Is one of these devices
more reliable than the other?  If so, which?

private email preferred, I don't wanna waste alot of bandwith.  I'll post
information that seems relevant to the group.

Clueless in Milwaukee...

Craig Rode  (aka Milwaukee Brewer)


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Date: Mon, 14 Apr 97 09:29 PDT
From: cburns at egusd.k12.ca.us (Charles Burns)
Subject: Color and Caramel Taste Question

Another Dumb Question:

In all-grain brewing, does 4 lbs of 20 Lovibond Crystal = 1 pound of 80 
Lovibond crystal, assuming the balance (3 lbs) is made up of Pale Ale malt?

Has anybody experimented and recorded actual results?

Charley (confounded in California)


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Date-warning: Date header was inserted by ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu
From: "Bryan L. Gros" <grosbl at ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu>
Subject: Guinness, sparklers

 Brian Bliss <brianb at microware.com> writes:
>>A further speculation on the Floating Guiness phenomenon is that perhaps the
>>dissolved nitrogen in draft Guiness helps suspend the liquid at the top of
>>the glass?
>
>quite true.  next time, try letting the guilnness decarbonate/denitrogenate
>before your pour it.  then, it doesn't float!  it only makes sense - why else
>would a heavier S.G. beer (i.e. guinness) float on a lighter SG beer
 
As has been pointed out, Guinness has a lower starting and finishing gravity
than most lagers used in B&T.  Also, Guinness has a very low carbonation,
and the point of the gas mix and the tap is to lower the carbonation even 
more and create the head.  I think it has all to do with density (i.e. gravity).

*****
Speaking of taps, does anyone know about the use of sparklers on beer
engines?  I've seen beer engines that pour bitters and the sparkler causes
the beer to shoot out in very small streams.  This mixes air in to the beer and,
along with the low carbonation, creates a dense white head.  Many
brewpubs these days serve "cask conditioned" beers, but most of those
pumps don't have sparklers.  They seem to have a fairly big opening that
the beer comes out of.

Is this just to make pouring easier?  Many pubs seem to want the hand pump
since it is pretty trendy now, but they don't want to take any more time
to pour a beer than they do with their other taps.  Do they remove the 
sparkler and then just pour and dump off the head as it forms to get a pint
out quickly?  Half the fun of Guinness and bitter is the anticipation while
you watch the head form and wait for the complete pour.

          - Bryan
            grosbl at ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
            Nashville, TN


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Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 18:57:05 +0200
From: "Jens P.Maudal" <jmaudal at aft.sn.no>
Subject: Re: use of aroma hops

Jens P.Maudal wrote:
> 
> Aroma hops in bitters !
> I would like to recieve some views on the use of aroma hops and how I
> can controle the different flavors and or aromas I am looking for in my
> beers. To give you a practical example,I want to use willamette and are
> trying to extract some of the fresh and tart flavour of this hop,and not
> so much the aroma.It is basicly three ways of doing this depending on
> how much flavour or aroma I want.
> A) boiling the hops for 2-30 min.
> B) Steeping or hop back where the hops are not boiled,lenght of time????
> C) Dry hopping added to fermenter or directly into the keg.
> My question is which of these ways gives the most flavour,how long time
> the hops should be steeped,and what sort of quantities I should use.Is
> it in fact desirable to divide the amount of hops intended for aroma and
> use all three ways.
> Some say that whole hops is to prefer to pellets for this use,because of
> a better flavour.
> Is there any experts on this out there?
> --
> - jens maudal
Trying again with the new addres this time.
- -- 
 - jens maudal

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Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 13:05:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: egross at emory.edu
Subject: Pick up some points,judge at the SE AHA nationals


 This year the southeastern portion of the AHA nationals will be sponsored
by the Covert Hops Society in Atlanta, Georgia. A mailer describing the
event was sent to each BJCP judge from the south east on the list supplied
by the AHA, with a reply date of April 18th. If you have not confirmed
that you wish to judge please do so ASAP.If you did not receive an
invitation, are qualified (either BJCP,Brewing school graduate,
experienced brewer and judge, etc) and wish to judge the first round of
the nationals, please contact us ASAP. For convenience an email address
has been set up expressly for this purpose: sejudges at juno.com. On behalf
of the competition co-organizers, we'd like to thank those that have
already replied. We expect ~600 entries, and judging over 2 to 3 days, so
some serious points and experience can be accumulated.There will be an
abundance of beer, comraderie and catered food. Hope to see you there,
                                               Lee Gross 



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Date: Mon, 14 Apr 97 12:50:54 CDT
From: jwilkins at imtn.tpd.dsccc.com (John Wilkinson)
Subject: Mash out starch

Charlie Scandrett writes:

>Some German texts advise against mashout as it releases more starch while
>denaturing enzymes to convert that starch. Withholding some grain-free,
>enzyme-rich fluid before mashout and adding it back later overcomes this
>objection.

What I don't understand is why the enzyme rich fluid added back doesn't
have its enzymes denatured by the hot mash.  If the mash out raises the
mash temp to 165-170F as I thought the purpose to be, wouldn't the enzymes
of the added back fluid be denatured before they were able to convert the
starch released by the mash out?  I realize the enzymes are not denatured
instantly but I would think at 165-170F it wouldn't take long.  If the
mash was allowed to cool before adding back the enzyme rich liquid what
would be the point of mashing out?

John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas - jwilkins at imtn.dsccc.com

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Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 13:11:06 -0500 (CDT)
From: korz at xnet.com
Subject: Re: F/C difference in malt

Jeff writes:
>F/C is not a ratio, but a per cent difference, as he implied in the
>last quoted sentence above.

Some maltsters list it as a ratio, which is how I initially learned it.
Jeff is right, however, I did slip up and write "ratio" when I should
have written "difference."

Note that, actually, it's not a "per cent difference" but rather the
difference of two percentages: (80.4% - 78.4% = 2.0 F/C *difference*).  

Al.


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Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 14:19:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: JeffHailey at aol.com
Subject: Thanks/Extract Recipe/Speical-B/Steeping vs. Partial Mash

Thanks to all of the posters on this digest!  The information is great!

I posted a question here a month or two ago about removing hop spooge from my
primary.  I received one answer, but lost the piece of mail.  Thanks to the
sender for the advice.  Unfortunately, that batch turned out to be Band-Aid
Beer.  Oh well.
- ------------
Someone asked for extract recipes.  Heres my latest.

Sort of IPA

3 lb.     M&F light liquid malt extract
3 lb.     M&F extra-light dry malt extract
1/2 lb.  Special-B Malt (steeped)
1/2 lb.  Cara-Pils (steeped)
2 oz.    East Kent Goldings Plugs, 5% AA (60 min)
2 oz.    Willamette Plugs, 4.5% AA (15 min)
2/3 cup Corn Sugar (bottling)
Wyeast 1028  Londen Ale (stepped up to 1 pint)

Ferment:  10 days ~70F
OG 1.050
FG 1.018

Comments:  Probably not a true style IPA.  
Done with a full boil.  Runnings from specialty grains 
recirculated through a strainer of grain until clear.  Cooled to 70F, then
pitched yeast.  Copper Colored, good body, smooth bitterness!  I love it -- 
my best beer yet!

- -------------------
Does anyone know what is the story on Special-B malt.  It was recommended
by a homebrew store that I don't normally like to frequent.  The guy who
recommended it left before I could ask questions.  It, presumably, can
replace
crystal malt in some applications.  Also, presumably, it imparts a red to
copper
color.  If anyone knows more, please let the rest of us know! Thanks!

______________
On Steeping vs. Mashing specialty grains

What advantages are there, really, to mashing specialty grains such as 
Crystal, Cara-Pils, Choclate, Black Patent, etc.?  Havn't these grains
undergone
some conversion in the husk?  By mashing with your grist, are you not
doing additional conversion?  In particular, Cara-Pils is a dextrinous malt.
 
It gives your beer body by adding dextrins (large sugar molecules, 
somewhere between fermentable sugars and starchs), right?  Would
adding it to a mash allow enzyme activity to break down the dextrins into
fermentable sugars -- eliminating its desired purpose?  I know that in a
full mash, you can control the mash temp with your base malt to make the
wort more or less dextrinous; but with a partial mash temp. would be harder
to control.  So, If I am not interested in using any grains that require a
mash
(wheat, wheat malt, oats, Munich malt, etc), does a partial mash really
buy anything to the finished product?  Someone, please help to enlighten
this ignorant brewer.

TIA
Jeff Hailey
Brewing in Tulsa, OK





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