---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@ brew.oeonline.com
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Quick beer... (korz)
  Weights (krkoupa)
  Black & Tans ("Raymond Estrella")
  malts and enzymes/N2 and beer/Cooper's yeast/metabisulphites/40-60-70 (korz)
  Munich/Pils/Alts/slurry (Jim Busch)
  Keg connectors, inline filters, and yeast washing questions? (Cory Chadwell)
  half brews ("Sandow, Matthew")
  American Pale Ale (Rick Snide)
  Water chemistry? ("Bill Rucker")
  Announcement -- The Fourth Annual BUZZ Off! (Robert.MATTIE)
  DME (Bob Tisdale)
  beer sites in Minneapolis (HOMEBRE973)
  cloudy beer speculation ("Bryan L. Gros")
  re: subscriber list (Michael A. Owings)
  Hop Profiles Pt VII (John Goldthwaite)
  hot water questions (Tom Pope)
  Pressure-Cooker Decoction Question (KennyEddy)
  Hot Water / Lil' Bottles for Mead / Crystal Malt (KennyEddy)
  Aluminum Pressure Cooker Questions (Russ Brodeur)
  Quick beer (korz)
  Thermometers (John Wilkinson)
  Re:  hot water questions (stencil)
  RE:Cooler Mash Tun Thread (Steve Potter)
  Special B (DJBrew)
  Keg system question (Shane Burgess)
  Brewtek Grain Mill (Joe Shope)
  ANNOUNCE: Delaware Homebrew Competition (Oliver Weatherbee)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 14:33:37 -0500 (CDT)
From: korz at xnet.com
Subject: Quick beer...

Jim writes:
>pretty limited on the types of beer I can brew.  I'm interested in some
>feedback on 2 or 3 styles that will mature quickly enough to be ready for
>the wedding.  I plan to brew some sort of ale this weekend, give it 7 days
>in the primary, about 7 days in the secondary and 3 weeks to mature in
>bottles (I don't have kegs).
> 
>My limited experience has been that some ales need much more than 3 weeks
>to mature, at least that's been the case for my "darker" ales such as
>porter and brown ale.  I'm guessing that a lightly hopped fruit ale using
>fruit extract might work ok since the extract might cover up any of the
>"harshness."  Any other suggestions on styles, or even general guidelines
>for what I should/shouldn't do? 

Harshness comes from primarily three sources:

1. astringency from polyphenols (especially oxidized polyphenols),
2. higher alcohols, and
3. some hop varieties.

You can brew and serve Bitter in 14 days.  You can brew and serve most
low-gravity ales in 14 days.  You have to avoid the three things listed
above.

To reduce astringency, first of all, minimize air/oxygen after 
fermentation has started... if you are getting lots of astringency,
you may want to have someone else who brews look at your bottling
procedures... maybe you are missing something obvious that's introducing
oxygen at bottling time.  Next, watch the pH of the steep/mash...
if it's above 5.5, add acid to get it down below 5.5 (a little at a
time -- it works very fast).  Don't boil grains, of course, which
will increase polyphenol extraction and watch the sparge pH and temp
especially!

To minimize higher alcohols, stay away from the Belgian yeasts and
keep your fermentation temp down below 68F... 65F would be even better.
Keep those OG's reasonable... the higher the OG, the more higher 
alcohols you will get.  To get beer in 14 days (kegged, mind you...
bottling you need 21 so it will naturally carbonate), you really
need to stay below 1.050 or so.

Some hop varieties can be harsh at higher rates.  If you stay below
30 IBUs for a 1.050 beer or say, below 25 IBUs for a 1.045 beer, you 
can use virtually any hop.  Note that high-alpha hops aren't the
worst offenders: I feel that Mount Hood is harsher than Nugget,
Galena, and Eroica (try it yourself... I did).  You can always be
safe with Cascade and Goldings... seems like you can't overhop with
these two!

Time mellows the harshness of all three of these sources of harsh
flavours.  Polyphenols are said to combine into longer molecules
with time (this is why red wines improve with age).  Higher alcohols
combine with organic acids to form esters (esterification).  I don't
know what compounds are responsible for harshness from some hops,
but time definitely smooths them out... whatever they are.

Finally, to get fermentation going quickly, as you will need, you
should use a big starter or an extra package of dry yeast.  I
needed some beer in a hurry recently: I used two packages of Danstar
Windsor and aerated well.  The beer fermented in two days at 65F
and cleared after two more.  If I would have kegged it, I could
have served it after five days (one needed to chill to serving
temp).

Al.

Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz at xnet.com


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Date: Mon, 14 Apr 97 13:28:49 PST
From: krkoupa at ccmail2.srv.PacBell.COM
Subject: Weights

Some nice folks have answered my questions from a year or so 
ago about weight equivalencies.  Let's not rehash the weight 
issues now.  Instead, what I wanted to pass on the resources 
(no affiliation blah) that answered my questions.  Thanks to 
those who pointed me to ...

Weight equivalencies in terms of coins:
http://www.av.qnet.com/~dennyr/

Where to buy brass ounce weights:
Lehman's "Non-Electric Good Neighbor Heritage Catalog"
http://www.lehmans.com/
P.O. Box 41, Kidron, OH 44636 USA

Ken Koupal


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Date: Mon, 14 Apr 97 20:07:58 UT
From: "Raymond Estrella" <ray-estrella at msn.com>
Subject: Black & Tans

 Hello all,
Brian Bliss responds to the B&T question,
>try letting the guinness decarbonate/denitrogenate
>before your pour it.  then, it doesn't float!  it only makes sense 
>- why else would a heavier S.G. beer (i.e. guinness) float on a 
>lighter SG beer (presumably, the "tan" is lighter in SG, or at least 
>the Guinness still floats if it does).
 I think that you are just assuming that the Stout has got to be the Bigger
beer because it's a STOUT. This is from Lewis' Stout book, " Guinness 
Extra Stout": OG 1.040, ABV 4.3% (page 143)
 That means that the Final Gravity would be 1.0076, (1008) a pretty
"light" beer. I think that the floating effect is more from differences in 
density, and not from gas. I too have made B&Ts from bottled Guinness
that contains no Nitrogen. I have also made them with a homebrewed 
Oatmeal Stout, on top of a big homebrewed UK Pale Ale, no nitrogen there.

Ray Estrella   Cottage Grove   MN
ray-estrella at msn.com

    *******Never relax, constantly worry, have a better homebrew.*******


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Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 16:19:18 -0500 (CDT)
From: korz at xnet.com
Subject: malts and enzymes/N2 and beer/Cooper's yeast/metabisulphites/40-60-70

Mark writes (quoting Jim, I believe):
>> Second, the highly modified pale
>>ale base malt is rich in enzymes compared to the lager malts usually used in
>>decoction brewing, thus there are still plenty of enzymes left in the mash
>>after pulling the liquid. 
>
>
>this is counter to most descriptions of malt i have read.  a true pale ale
>malt will have less enzyme content than a true lager malt.  the reason for
>this is the higher kilning temperature given pale ale malts.  the higher
>temperature destroys more enzymes as compared with the lower temp. kilning
>that lager malts receive.

This is true (higher temp and longer kilning will give you lower enzyme
levels), but I think that Jim was referring to the lager malts of 20 or
50 years ago relative to modern ale malts... at least that's how I read
it.  In general, American malts tend to be higher in protein and, therefore,
enzymes than British and Continental malts.

***
Nitrogen and beer...
Ken suggests and Scott swears by mixed-gas (Nitrogen/CO2) dispense of
stout for good black+tans.  Nitrogen is virtually insoluble in beer.
That's why it's used to dispense Guinness: so you can dispense at high
pressure without a lot of gas dissolving into the beer.  Now, I do not
doubt that using nitrogen-dispensed stout will make creating a b+t
easier. When the beer comes out of the tap at the high-pressure you use
with mixed-gas systems, the beer comes out as a sort of churning mass
of beer and bubbles, which is much lighter than a true liquid and easier to
lay down on top of a half pint of Bass or Harp or whatever.

***
Randy writes:
>I've seen a lot of references to Coopers (and?) Adelaide's sparkling ales
>on the HBD. I don't remember if they were recent postings since I've also
>been perusing the archives quite a bit lately. Anyway, I'm wondering if the
>Cooper's dry yeast is comparable to the liquid australian yeasts put out by
>YeastLab, Wyeast, etc.

They are different strains.  As far as I know, Wyeast doesn't have an
Australian yeast, but YCKC's Australian is the Sparkling Ale yeast
whereas the Cooper's dry is a completely different yeast.  I feel the
Cooper's dry is quite fruity.

***
Lenny writes:
>Subject: how to use sodium metabisulfite?
>
>The title says it all.  What amounts do I use to sterilize a plastic fermentor?
>Any special instructions?

The amount to use is ZERO grams per liter.  ZERO!  Metabisulphites are
not sterilants.  They are not even sanitisers.  They are inhibitors.
Their purpose is to inhibit the growth of wild yeasts and bacteria till
your cultured yeast can get a foothold.  They require a low pH to work
at all and I don't even recommend the practice of mixing metabisulphites
with acid in water for sanitising... as I said before, you really can't
count on them to kill the nasties (although they do kill some of them).
I recommend that you use either bleach (1 tablespoon per gallon) or iodophor
(1 ounce per 5 gallons) for sanitising your fermenter.

***
Louis writes:
>I've noticed a number of people refer to Dr. Fix's preferred
>mash schedule as "40-60-70"; i.e., a first rest at 40C (104F),
>followed by rests at 60C (140F) and 70C (158F).  This is not
>correct.  As George says:
>
>http://realbeer.com/spencer/FAQ/Fix-mash.html
>
>> I strongly prefer moderately modified malt for lager beer, 
>> and I have found that a protein rest at 50C (122F) has 
>> numerous advantages. I have done test brews with a 40-50-60-70
>> schedule, but little is gained in yield over a 50-60-70 program. 
>> I personally am going to stick with the latter since among other
>> things half of the 3 gals of transition water can be used to go 
>> from 50 to 60, while the other half can be used to go from 60 to
>> 70. 
>
>George confirmed the 50-60-70 scheudle in materials he presented 
>in a seminar I produced a few years ago.

I think that George has reconsidered this... ALSO from
http://realbeer.com/spencer/FAQ/Fix-mash.html, Dr. Fix says
(and pay close attention to the "Note -"):

>It appears that yield (which is a measure of the extent we dissolve grain
>carbs.) is strongly influenced by the lower temperatures used, while the
>composition of the carbohydrates dissolved (i.e., % fermentability) is
>influenced by the higher temperatures. The following batch is typical of
>the results I have been getting with highly modified malt. 
>
>   Data
>         brew size = 15.5 gals
>         total water = 9.5 gals in mash + 9.5 gals for sparging
>         grain bill : 24 lbs. D-C Pale Ale malt
>                       2 lbs. D-C Caravienne
>                       1 lb.  D-C Aromatic
>
>   Temperature Program
>
>         40C (104F) - 30 mins.- 24 lbs. base malt + 6.5 gals. water
>        
>         Transition 40 to 60C - add 3 gals. of boiling water - add
>             adjunct malts at the end as a brake - less than 5 mins.
>             is needed
>
>          Note - I now feel (with Narziss) that the time spent in the
>             range 45-55C should be keep below 15 mins. if highly
>             modified malt is used.
>
>          60C (140F) - 30 mins.
>
>          Transition 60 to 70C - external heat is needed and this can
>             be done in 15 mins.

<snip>

***
Joe writes:
>In shopping around, the Gott coolers seem to be very elusive, at least in
>NYC. The new Kmart near Madison Square Garden does carry Igloo coolers,
>however. (We're very proud of our new Kmart.) Are these comparable to the
>Gott?

Nope... bit difference.  The Igloos are only made to keep things cold
whereas the Gott/Rubbermaid are made to be used with either cold or *hot*
liquids.  With repeated use, Igloo and Coleman coolers made to keep things
cold will warp.

***
Tom writes:
>I feel that George's response is a more sane approach, put the SOB
>out of business by avoiding his unethical business practices and not
>allowing yourself to be screwed anymore.  Also remember, we are only
>talking about bulk malt here.  Maybe Al Korzonas will jump in and tell
>us how little profit there is in bulk (not 25 kilo bags or one pound
>prepackaged), retail barley malt sales.  HB retailers I have spoken to
>would much rather just sell extract (much more profitable with no mess
>or special equipment, ie. bins, mills, scales, bags, etc.).

I take it that I was summoned because I'm an ex-homebrew supply shop
owner and can now give all the dirty secrets of HB shop ownership, eh?
Well, Tom's right... there's very little profit in bulk malts.  You
have to give a big discount because your customers expect it, but then
your profit is extremely small.  After adding freight, the profit
on a 55# sack of malt is between $5 and $10.  Incidentally, extract
is not a big moneymaker... markup can't be very high and all you make
on a 3.3# can or bag of extract is $1 to $2.  2oz packages of hops,
1# bags of malt... that's where the profit comes in, but then they are
labour-intensive.  Equipment has a decent markup, but it is purchased
infrequently.  The bottom line is that nobody is buying Mercedes with
homebrew shop profits (even if you have another job like I did).


Al.

Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz at xnet.com


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Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 17:24:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Busch <busch at eosdev2.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Munich/Pils/Alts/slurry

<We'll be in Munich & environs

Kloster Andechs.  South of Munich.  Also hausbrauerie Forschungs is great.
Paulaner, Nocherberg as well as Augisteiner Kellar, near Marienplatz are
great and the biergaardens, Heirschgaarden and Englishergaarden.

<In HBD 2394, Ken Schwartz suggests that the B&T effect might just be 
<attributable to the "dissolved" nitrogen in the Guinness;

I think the key is gravity differences.  The light beer needs to go on top.
Ive made draught stout at 9-10P and it does float on bigger weight ales
no matter if I use CO2 or a beer engine.

<Michael asks about his Pilsner Urquell recipe.
<You can add a little 20L crystal malt (e.g. DWC CaraVienna) which
<would add a light toasty, crackery flavour. I would limit it to 1/2#
<so as to not make the beer too sweet.

I dont think its usual to use caramel malt in contential pils.  I 
think a better approach is to use Biscuit, if you want biscuity,
or Munich with a decoction.  Many pils biers are made from 100% pilsner
malt.

<I've heard that Im Fuchschen is available in the US, and it is a fine
<example of the style.

It is.  I personnally finsihed off a 30 L "cask" with a few friends last
year.  Wonderful in all respects.

<Finally,
<I believe that Schlosser Alt may be imported into the US and is in the
<same league (in my opinion) as Zum Uerige and Im Fuchschen, so if you
<can find it, grab it.

Sacrilege!  Schlosser is good but nowhere near the elegance and balls
of the other two you noted.  Its still a better example than any Ive
had in the US but to lump it together with Zum Uerige/Im Fuchschen is
pushing it.

< I'll tell  you what though, you pitch a
<pint of yeast (settles down to about an inch or so in the jar after about 1
<hour) into a 5 gallon batch of either extract or all-grain (I'm sure it
<will work for you all-grainers, too), and you'll see something really rock
<and roll after less than 2 hours.  I do add about 1/4 cup of wort to get
<things started before I pitch, though. 

Definetly the way to go, use brewpub/micro yeast as long as the beers
taste good from the brewery.  No need to feed the slurry just keep it cold
and use it within a week or so. If you store it longer than about 10 days 
then feed it before use (or go back for fresh!).

Prost!

Jim Busch

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Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 16:58:38 -0500
From: cory at okway.okstate.edu (Cory Chadwell)
Subject: Keg connectors, inline filters, and yeast washing questions?

     Hey collective,
     
     I need to get in and out connectors for my soda kegs and my local do 
     it all utility store doesn't carry them.  Any idea's (local chains I 
     may have overlooked as well as mail order co.'s)
     
     Also since I am overhauling the kegging system I need a inline filter 
     and I remember some discussion about 2 months before the "Great HBD 
     Darkening" about a inline filter with the following specs
     
     - about 50 micron filtering (just trying to get rid of the big chunks 
     not worried about chill haze)
     
     - Backwash with bleach or idophor to clean
     
     - good for 20 + batches
     
     Can anyone remember the make and price of this filter?
     
     Lastly,  I've tried my hand at recycling yeast by washing with mixed 
     results.  I feel that slow starting ferments when using these yeasties 
     has lent itself to low grade infections of 2 or 3 batches.  Here's my 
     procedure, please tell me if anyone sees a flaw.
     
     1.  sterilize 3 mason jars of water
     2.  after racking off primary fermenter, I gently pour the first jar 
     of sterile water onto the trub, give a little swirl then pour out.
     3.  I take what is left in the fermenter and divide equally between 
     the last 2 mason jars of sterile water.  At about 50% water and 50% 
     yeast.
     4.  place in fridge till next brewday.
     5.  Before next brewday I make a starter with boiled water, dme and 
     one of the jars of yeast stuff.
     
     A friend of mine instructed me in using this technique and he has good 
     success so I'm wondering where's my mistake.
     
     Private E-mails are fine.
     THX, Cory :)
     Black Cat White Stripe Homebrew
     "It might smell like a skunk but I swear it's not!"
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     

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Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 13:02:00 +1000
From: "Sandow, Matthew" <MSandow at nibucorp.telstra.com.au>
Subject: half brews

Rodroy,

I read your message regarding making half brews and thought I'd add my
two cents worth.

All my beer to date has been based on extracts so quantity was pretty
much set.

What I wanted to do was see if I could successfully make beer and also
to find at least one I liked. So I made up a full mix but only bottled
half - it seems like a waste but in reality it isn't a lot of money.
This way if the beer was really bad I only had to dump the remaining
half. This also made it easier to have enought bottles on hand to make
up six brews in as many weeks without taking up half my house. I used a
couple of variations on a recipe and decided which one I liked best. By
doing this I ended up with three variations of a Lager, (one straight
extract + dextrose and no hops etc, one with half dextrose, half pale
malt, and the last one half dextrose, half malt, plus some hops) I also
think it is interesting to compare the three and determine which part of
the mix is adding to what in the taste. Now I have a nice, drinkable
lager which I intend to play around with using different hops, and
combinations of hops.

The other half brews are a wheat beer which was really bad - although I
am not sure why and a wheet beer which is sitting and will be tested in
a couple of more weeks. The other brew is a stout which should be ok.

The point I am trying to make is I think it is probably easier to make
full mixes and use half than to attempt to cut recipes in half. Home
brewing at my level isn't that expensive in my opinion to make the
difference worthwhile.

Have fun and happy brewing

Matthew

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Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 08:10:05 -0400
From: Rick Snide <Rick at RevolutionSoftware.com>
Subject: American Pale Ale

What are the differences between an American Pale Ale and an India Pale Ale?  


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Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 08:25:50 +5
From: "Bill Rucker" <brewzer at peanut.mv.com>
Subject: Water chemistry?

Hello all,

I brewed a batch of pale ale this past weekend and I had a small 
problem which I am hoping I can get an explanation for. I have fairly 
neutral water, runs about pH 7.3. It is city water but I don't have 
the analysis because I wouldn't know what I was looking at. I think 
it may be time to get it though, if I can.

I wanted to acidify my stike water just a bit because I wasn't using 
very many darker grains and didn't expect my mash bed pH to get low 
enough. I have done this before and it worked well. I used lactic 
acid this time which was different for me. Any comments related to 
it's use for this purpose are also welcome. 

Well, I added 1/4 *tsp*  of lactic acid to the stike water as it was 
heating. I stirred it for a few minutes and then rechecked expecting 
to see a pH somewhat lower than 7.3 but what I got was a totally 
unexpected 3.5! What the **** happened? Is this the cause of not 
having enough buffer capacity in the water? What can be done to 
prevent this? The litany of questions could go on of course but if 
anyone can comment on this I would appreciate it.

Thanks



Cheers,

Bill

#########################################
Head brewer and proprietor,
Hellfire Home Brewery,
Somersworth, NH

If Brewing is living, Beer is life!

#########################################


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Date: 15 Apr 97 08:49:10 -0400
From: Robert.MATTIE at sb.com
Subject: Announcement -- The Fourth Annual BUZZ Off!

     1997 BUZZ Off
     June 22, 1997
     =

     The Fourth Annual BUZZ Off will be held at Victory Brewing Company i=
n =

     Downingtown, PA.   We will be judging all homebrewed Beer, Mead, and=
 =

     Cider as defined in the 1997 AHA Style Guidelines. This competition =
is =

     sanctioned by the AHA and the BJCP.  =

     =

     The 1997 Delaware Valley Homebrewer of the Year will be announced at=
 =

     the BUZZ Off.  New to the BUZZ Off this year is the Pennsylvania Clu=
b =

     Challenge -- the highest scoring PA Homebrew Club in the BUZZ Off wi=
ll =

     be awarded the 1997 PA Challenge Cup!
     =

     Information about the BUZZ Off is available at the BUZZ Off Web Page=
 =

     at: =

     http://www.voicenet.com/=AFrpmattie/buzzoff
     =

     note: the character in front of rpmattie is the tilde character (not=
 =

     an underscore, some mailers convert argh!!!!!)
     =

     If you are interested in receiving a competition entry packet via US=
 =

     Mail, please contact us via phone, e-mail, or the Web.  The deadline=
 =

     for entries is June 15th.
     =

     Judges/Stewards -- If you are interested in Judging or Stewarding, w=
e =

     want to hear from you!  =

     =

     For more information check the Web Page or contact: =

     =

     Robert Mattie, Comp Organizer, (610) 873-6607  robert.mattie at sb.com =
  =

     David Houseman, Judge Co-ord, (610) 458-0743 david.houseman at unisys.c=
om


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Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 20:34:42 +0100
From: rtisdale at entomology.msstate.edu (Bob Tisdale)
Subject: DME

I recently cooked up a batch of pale ale using 5 lbs of Laglander Dry Malt
Extract.  According to the formula, lbs of DME X 1.8 = lbs of LME, I used 9
lbs of LME.  However, the O.G. was only 1.042!  Can anyone explain what
happenned?

Thanks,
Bob Tisdale



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Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 10:01:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: HOMEBRE973 at aol.com
Subject: beer sites in Minneapolis

Just a quick note, I will be visiting Minneapolis next week and would like to
know of any good homebrew, brewpub, brewery, etc. related sites that should
be tried.  Please respond by e-mail to save digest space.
TIA,
Andy Kligerman

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Date-warning: Date header was inserted by ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu
From: "Bryan L. Gros" <grosbl at ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu>
Subject: cloudy beer speculation

Chris Storey <cstorey at knet.flemingc.on.ca> wrote:
> I have just finished bottling my second batch
>using a partial mash procedure. The problem is that both batches are very
>cloudy. The first is 1 week old and is not clearing at all. My second
>batch is the same way. What did I do wrong? I used an infusion mash with
>both batches. Ingredients were- 4.5 lbs. pale malt syrup and 4 lbs. 2-row
>pale malted barley.

Could be lots of things Chris.

Could be starch from sparging too hot.  How did you sparge?  Were the 
runnings clear from the sparge?  Did you recirculate?   How hot was your
sparge water?

Could be yeast.  What kind of yeast are you using?  What is your fermentation
temperature?  What is the OG and current SG?  Maybe it isn't done fermenting
yet; give it some time.  Maybe rack it again.

How did you chill your batch?  Many people chill in their boiling kettle
and then rack to a fermenter, thus separating the hot and cold break.  You
want to rack off of this stuff fairly early in fermentation.

Keep trying and you'll get better. Keep asking questions.

          - Bryan
            grosbl at ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
            Nashville, TN


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Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 14:30:36 GMT
From: mikey at waste.com (Michael A. Owings)
Subject: re: subscriber list

I don't think there was ever much debate on this point -- or at least
there shouldn't have been.  When the AOB took over the list they used
Majordomo mailing list software to manage the mailing list;  by
default Majordomo allows one to get a subscriber list for any managed
mailing list.  Latter versions of the software may let admins turn
this feature off -- it's been a while since I looked at it.  Majordomo
is pretty widely used,  despite its shortcomings.

When the HBD was switched back to Rob Gardener's original scripts  by
Pat Babcock et al (a good move most will agree), this feature was no
longer available.  Although I'll probably be letting my AOB
Membership/Zymurgy subscription lapse this year (the bottle opener
article was pretty much the last straw),  the AOB can hardly be
faulted for the idea of using Majordomo to manage a mailing list --
thousands of lists are managed in exactly the same way.  They can,
however,  be faulted for severely screwing it up when Shawn Steele
left,  and this has also figured heavily in my decision not to renew.

Note that regardless of whether a list server makes its subscriber
list available or not,  your address can easily be harvested if you
_ever_ post on any usenet newsgroup or on any mailing list.

HARDROCKENGR wrote:
>A few weeks ago there was some discussion of the availability of the >HBD 
>subscriber list. This list WAS available to the general public at the 
>beginning of this year. I am a computer newbie and brewer who just subscribed 
>to the HBD in December. To see how many people were subscribers I found that I 
>could download the subscriber list. Don't ask me how I found this out because 
>I don't remember, I was a total newbie at the time ( only had a computer for 
>one month and online for less). I haven't spoken up before because I could not 
>locate the file, until now. Much to the chagrin of the AHA the file >came as 
>follows:
***********************
Lord grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change.
The courage to change the things I can. *** And the wisdom to 
hide the bodies of the people I had to kill because they pissed 
me off ***

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Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 10:32:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: ir358 at cleveland.Freenet.Edu (John Goldthwaite)
Subject: Hop Profiles Pt VII

The last in the series:(  

Target--Imported (U.K.)--All Purpose
Widely used for high alpha acid content comined with an acceptable
aroma. 

Alpha Acid: 9.5-12.5%    Beta Acid: 5-5.5%
Aroma: Pleasant English hop aroma, quite intense.
Storage: 45-55%
Used For: Robust bittering. British ales and lagers.
Subs: None really quite like it, maybe East Kent Goldings.



Tettnang--Domestic--Finishing
Recently established in the U.S., traditional German variety, true
noble aroma variety.

Alpha Acid: 4-5%    Beta Acid: 3-4%
Aroma:  Fine, very spicy, mild, floral, very aromatic.
Storage: 55-60%
Used For: Finishing. Wheats and lagers.
Subs: Saaz



Willamette--Domestic--Finishing
A quality aroma hop with a smooth soft flavor. Can be used for
ales and lagers. 

Alpha Acid: 4-6%    Beta Acid: 3-4%
Aroma: mild and pleasant, slightly spicy, aromatic.
Storage: 60-65%
Used For: Finishing, dry hopping. American and British ales.
Subs: Fuggle, Styrian Goldings, Kent Goldings. 


References: 
Garetz, Mark.  Using Hops: The Complete Guide to Hops for the 
Craft Brewer.  Danville,CA: Hop Tech, 1994.

HopUnion U.S.A. Inc.  Hop Variety Characteristics. Yakima,WA:
HopUnion, U.S.A., Inc. 1995.

Miller, David.  Homebrewing Guide. Pownal,VT: Storey Publishing,
1995.

Snyder, Stephen. The Brewmaster's Recipe Manual. Guttenburg,NJ:
The Beer Garden Press, 1994. 


Well, that wraps it up. Point well taken by Al, in the last 
issue. The Substitutions listed will give you an entirely 
different character. Tettnang certainly won't come very close
to Saaz. I suppose they'd do in a pinch like they say. Once
again, thanx to the people at L.D. Carlson for doing ALL the 
leg work on this one. Over and Out. JG.

- --
BREWMOREBEER BREWMOREBEER BREWMOREBEER BREWMOREBEER BREWMOREBEER
BREWMOREBEER BREWMOREBEER BREWMOREBEER BREWMOREBEER BREWMOREBEER!

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Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 07:48:23 -0700
From: popeman at webtv.net (Tom Pope)
Subject: hot water questions

Ray Estrella asks about using water from his hot water tank. I have
heard about the sediment issues, but nonetheless propose the following.
I live in a relatively new home, no lead in the pipes. Many  cartridge
filters indicate that they will operate ok up to water temps. of 120
degrees F.  Put a T joint in the outlet pipe of your water heater, plumb
to a ball valve, run the hot water through a cartridge filter. Check and
adjust salt levels. Make sure you've turned down water heater temp. to
below the filter's stated temp. limits. This filtered  hot water wil be
delivered to your hot liquor tank where salts, pH, etc. can be tested
and adjusted. Then you can heat the water to the desired temp. in the
hot liquor kettle before transferring to your mash tun, or if you heat
your mash tun, you can make the temp. adjustments there. I think at
least some enterprising homebrewers could try this and "test the
waters", pardon the pun. I would think it  might also be of some benefit
to flush the hot water heater by draining from the bottom periodically.
Food for thought/discussion.....Tom Pope

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Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:04:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: KennyEddy at aol.com
Subject: Pressure-Cooker Decoction Question

I've not yet given decoction a try, though I was quite fascinated by the
concept of pressure-cooking wort to achieve many of the effects.  For the
brewer not inclined to spend all day decocting (such as lazy me), this sounds
like a reasonable alternative.

That brought up a question in my mind (uh-oh).  Would pressure-cooking a
quantity of pale extract *syrup* give a reasonable approximation of Munich
extract?  And if not exactly Munich, then at least something that might add
some nice complexity to an all-extract brew?

*****

Ken Schwartz
El Paso, TX
KennyEddy at aol.com
http://members.aol.com/kennyeddy


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Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:06:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: KennyEddy at aol.com
Subject: Hot Water / Lil' Bottles for Mead / Crystal Malt

Ray Estrella asks:

"I know that some people use HWH elements mounted in 
brew kettles for their sparging tanks, and some that have them in their boil 
kettles. What makes this any different than a HWH?"

Mostly the fact that the HWH will accumulate crud over time, whereas the
contents of an electric brew kettle are only used once before cleaning the
whole thing out.

*****

Hal Davis asks:

"I've called every bottle distributor in the Dallas yellow pages to no avail:
I'm looking for 6 to 7 ounce bottles for bottling mead, regular crown cap
(no screwies), and preferably in brown glass. I only need about 300 bottles,
but I could go as high as 1000 if I needed to. Anybody know of a source for
fewer than 5 truckloads?"

I found that Perrier bottles work nicely for packaging small chunks of
beverage.  I've got several full of mead as I type.  Although they're green,
and a fairly clear green at that, remember that there are (probably) no hops
in your mead, so "skunking" won't be a problem, though I can't say for sure
that light won't have other effects.

*****

Charley Burns asks about crystal malts:

"In all-grain brewing, does 4 lbs of 20 Lovibond Crystal = 1 pound of 80 
Lovibond crystal, assuming the balance (3 lbs) is made up of Pale Ale malt?"

"Equals" flavor-wise, no.  Color-wise, yes, at least using the linear color
model that most of us use.

I've found that you can noticibly vary the caramel quality of your brew
without altering the target color (if that's your goal) by mixing different
crystal malts.  For example, if your recipe calls for 40L, try using 50% 60L
and 50% 20L, or even 30% 90L and 60% 20L.  Same color; different flavor
(these mixes tend to have a bit sharper caramel quality).

*****

Ken Schwartz
El Paso, TX
KennyEddy at aol.com
http://members.aol.com/kennyeddy




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Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:37:19 -0400
From: Russ Brodeur <r-brodeur at ds.mc.ti.com>
Subject: Aluminum Pressure Cooker Questions

Back once again to the pressure cooker/decoction thread ...

OK, the aluminum-Alzheimer's myth has been disproven.  Aluminum is not
significantly soluble in wort either.

What would be wrong with pressure-cooking (in Al) the first 2-3 gallons
(5-gal batch) or so of runnings without using a separate container??  I
don't THINK the sugar concentration will be high enough to scorch,
especially when using an aluminum pot, since it spreads the heat more
evenly than a SS pot.  Also, there should be little-or-no grain
particulates present to potentially clog the vent.  

This seems like a super-easy way to get a great deal of the benefits of
a decoction mash (+ high-temp Maillard reactions), without most of the
trouble.

Is 250 F too high??

I would like to try this technique in my next altbier (100% Ireks
[Weyermanns] Munich).  I'll use a simple 2-step infusion (135/153 F),
pressure cook the first 2-3 gal of runnings  at  250F/30 min., then
recirculate this decoction for mash-out, and sparge, boil etc as usual. 
Any comments??

TTFN
- -- 
Russ Brodeur in Franklin, MA
mailto:r-brodeur at ds.mc.ti.com

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Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 12:33:37 -0500 (CDT)
From: korz at xnet.com
Subject: Quick beer

Jim writes (regarding advice he got to brew a quick beer):
> - shorten primary and secondary times to a few days, and increase time in
>the bottle.  If you crash chill when fermentation is complete, you can
>skip the secondary altogether.  

I would advise against crash-chilling because it will shock the yeast.
This will lead to slower carbonation and less viable yeast to re-absorb
diacetyl and acetaldehyde.  Since these are primarily responsible for
that "green beer" taste (especially the latter) I would advise letting
the fermentation run it's course in about two weeks in the primary (as
long as it's glass -- plastic primaries rarely have good-enough seals on
the lids or where the stopper goes to keep beer in them for more than a
week or so) and then go to kegs or bottles.  

> - using fruit extract might be a good idea to hide some of the "green"
>beer taste, but definitely don't use fresh fruit which needs more time. 

I have read in HBD where several people have had success with those
fruit extracts, but I've used several types (all claiming to be 100%
real fruit) and was disappointed in all of them.  Even in a very lightly-
hopped beer, when I got the fruit level up to where I liked it, the
resulting beer was too bitter and had a slight medicinal (like cough
medicine) flavour.


Al.

Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz at xnet.com


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Date: Tue, 15 Apr 97 12:42:59 CDT
From: jwilkins at imtn.tpd.dsccc.com (John Wilkinson)
Subject: Thermometers

Craig Rode was commenting on thermometer inaccuracies and differences between
glass and bimetal types.
I have gone through some of the same agonizing.  In trying to calibrate my
long probe bimetal dial thermometer to match my glass thermometer I have
come to a few conclusions?

1) The bimetal type doesn't seem to be linear in its response.
2) It is important that the liquid used for calibration be at an even temp
   or to measure with both thermometers at the same depth.  Even temp is
   hard to achieve, especially in a mash.  It is also difficult to tell
   which part of the glass thermometer should be at the same depth as the
   bimetal's probe.  The bulb at the bottom at about the same depth as a
   point an inch or so up from the tip of the bimetal probe, I presume.
3) Considering 2 above makes 1 above questionable.

I have come to depend on a digital thermometer I bought from Williams Sonoma
for about $15US.  I checked it against ice water that had been in a thermos
for several minutes and it read within about a degree of 32F, against
boiling water which it showed at about 212F (about 600 ft. above sea level),
and against about 100F water checked with a fever thermometer (see 2 above).
It agreed pretty closely with what I expected so I trust it more than the
others.  Its biggest problems are a short probe and need for a battery.  I
still use the bimetal long probe dial thermometer to get an idea for temp
variation at different depths of the mash.
Just some thoughts.

John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas - jwilkins at imtn.dsccc.com

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Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 18:00:29 GMT
From: stencil at bcn.net (stencil)
Subject: Re:  hot water questions

If running your cold water through a hot water heater causes mineral
deposits to build up inside the hot water heater then does it not seem
reasonable that the hot water leaving the hot water heater no longer
contains those minerals?  Most pet stores sell inexpensive test kits
to measure the General Hardness and Carbonate Hardness of water
intended for aquariums;  one of those little jewels should work just
fine.  FWIW, my own tapwater is soft enough that I don't need to use
(pricey) hot water except to rinse after sanitizing.

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Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 13:25:37 -0500
From: Steve Potter <spotter at MERITER.COM>
Subject: RE:Cooler Mash Tun Thread

John Wilkinson described how he used an Igloo cooler to make a mash
tun as he had trouble finding a Gott (Rubbermaid).  An easy place to
connect with a Gott cooler is through your local wholesale janitorial
supply store.  Most of them do business with Rubbermade for cleaning
equipment and can order the coolers even if they don't stock them.

I use a Phils false bottom in mine.  I handled the spigot a little differently
than John.  I used a regular drilled rubber stopper (can't remember the
size) inserted from the _inside_.  This ensures that it doesn't come
popping off at an inconvenient time.  I inserted a section of racking cane
through the drilled stopper sufficiently long to leave approximatley 1 inch
outside the cooler and terminating inside the cooler approximately 1/4
inch from the fitting that comes out of the center of the large size of false
bottom.  I use a piece of regular racking hose about two inches long over
both the fitting and the racking cane.  This serves to firmly connect up
the two, but it  does not require a clamp.  An added bonus is that when
you use a rigid racking tube, it stops the false bottom's annoying habit of
rising up off the bottom when you mash in.  I also use regular racking
hose on the outside, but I do use a clamp at that fitting.

Hope this helps-

Steve Potter
Brewing in Madison Wisconsin 

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Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 14:36:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: DJBrew at aol.com
Subject: Special B

Jeff Hailey Asked about Special B:

Direct from Schreier:
    A unique malt that is produced by a cross of methods between dark caramel
and light roasted malt. Can contribute a ruby red color. Similar to a brown
malt. Flavor and aroma is sharper than a caramel malt. 100-130 Lov.

I like this malt. It is not very sweet and I think it has a mild chocolate
like flavor. I use it in almost all of my darker beers.

Hope this help,
Dan Soboti
DJBrew at aol.com

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Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 15:25:35 -0400
From: Shane Burgess <shane at radionics.com>
Subject: Keg system question


Hi all, my father has a keg system that he is currently using for
commercial beer (I know, I know).  It's a complete system with a mini
fridge, I don't know the brand.  He would like to brew his own but
will only do it if he can keg it.  I know this is possible, but my
quesiton is:  what's the cheapest way to get him started?  Can he use
a 1/4 barrel or does he need something else?

I looked in some of the past archives but did not find any information
on this.  If someone can point me in the right direction I'd
appreciate it.

Thanks in advance.

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Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 12:23:54 +0000
From: Joe Shope <sltp5 at cc.usu.edu>
Subject: Brewtek Grain Mill

Brethren,

I'm considering the purchase of a mill and noticed the mill from 
Brewtek.  Does anyone currently use this mill?  Besides continuously 
doing a fine-tune adjusting what other factors are important in 
getting a "good crush".  It seems intuitive to me that larger diameter 
rollers would give a better crush from the increased contact time with 
the grain.

Private E-mail is fine:  sltp5 at cc.usu.edu
                              OR     jshope at biology.usu.edu

joe shope
Logan, UT

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Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 16:52:15 -0400
From: oliver at jason.cms.udel.edu (Oliver Weatherbee)
Subject: ANNOUNCE: Delaware Homebrew Competition

Proud of your brew? Think you got what it takes to compete with 
the big boys in the microbrewery market? Well here's your chance
to find out. The First State Brewers and Rockford Brewing Company 
are proud to announce: 

		DELAWARE'S BEST ALES CHALLENGE

			 July 26, 1997
		        Rockford Brewery
			 Wilmington, DE

Enter this homebrew competition and you might win prizes and the
opportunity of having your beer brewed and sold under a special
"Delaware's Best" label by Rockford Brewing Company. A portion of 
the proceeds from the sale of this product will go to a local 
Delaware charity. 

Prizes and ribbons will be awarded in all of the judged categories.
You will also recieve detailed tasting notes and score sheets from
certified BJCP (Beer Judge Certification Program) judges. This is 
an opportunity to have your beer evaluated by the professionals and
show just how good homebrew can be. 

There will be a catered Awards Reception the evening of the 
competition at the brewery where we will announce the winners and
distribute prizes. This reception will be open to all brewers and 
their guests (check website or entry packet for ticket information).
 
NOTICE: This is an Ales only competition. Entry is limited to
"Delaware" brewers: you must live, work, OR brew (i.e. associated 
with a Delaware based homebrew club) in order to be eligible. This
is a BJCP/AHA sanctioned event.

Intrested parties (entrants, judges, stewards) should check out our
website listed below and/or contact Oliver Weatherbee at
oliver at triton.cms.udel.edu.

- -- 
________________________________________________________
Oliver Weatherbee			oliver at triton.cms.udel.edu
			First State Brewers
	http://triton.cms.udel.edu/~oliver/firststate/
________________________________________________________

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