HOMEBREW Digest #2401 Mon 21 April 1997

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@ brew.oeonline.com
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Best damn beer event this summer! :-) (Robert Paolino)
  Joe Kolsh scales USA (Jim Martin)
  Re: Black & Tans (Brian Bliss)
  Re: Black & Tans (more) (Brian Bliss)
  Re: lactic acid (Brian Bliss)
  Pitched vessels? (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Torbj=F8rn_Bull-Njaa?=)
  more BT's, bb eats crow, and be kind to your homebrew store owner (Brian Bliss)
  Re: N2 Nyyyyyaaaaaagggggghhhhhhh (pbabcock.ford)
  brew hiatus (Dckdog)
  Care and Feeding of aCajun  Cooker (Tom Pope)
  Cajun Cookers (Jim Herter)
  Got Beer? (Tom Pope)
  extract-specialty grains (Rae Christopher J)
  Access to Snob Micros (Lorne P. Franklin)
  Beer in Whiskey Barrels (Glyn Crossno)
  GOT BEER? Kegs for cheap? (Volt Computer)" <a-branro at MICROSOFT.com>
  Joe Average and the Brewpub ("Mark Bridges")
  New Recruit (Aesoph, Michael)
  Solubility of nitrogen (Steve Zabarnick)
  Minnesota Beers ("Houseman, David L")
  Counter Pressure Filler Recs (Rob Kienle)
  SRM conversion to EBC (DJBrew)
  "Phenols" and stuff that ain't stuff (Charlie Scandrett)
  Casks, ("David R. Burley")
  Krausen that would not die ("David Root")
  Oak (Chris King)
  Stainless Steels ("Lorena Barquin Sanchez")
  Re: Mini Kegs (DGofus)
  DME/LME conversion, using hot tap water, shop scales, King (Dave Bartz)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 00:01:10 -0500 (CDT) From: Robert Paolino <rpaolino at execpc.com> Subject: Best damn beer event this summer! :-) Madison Homebrewers and Tasters Guild presents the 11th Annual Great Taste of the Midwest(SM) A Festival of Brewers and their Beers 9 August 1997, 1-6pm Olin-Turville Park (John Nolen Drive) Madison, Wisconsin This is the big event, on the second Saturday of August if you're marking your calendar for the rest of the century. The midwest's finest breweries and brewpubs (limited to 75 breweries) will offer more than 250 different beers in a wide range of styles to a thirsty group of beer enthusiasts, and you can be one of them! Tickets ($18) go on sale May 1, and not a day sooner in fairness to all who want to get tickets. (Those who try to jump the gun will have their orders held for as many days after May 1 as their orders were mailed too early.) Your ticket entitles you to a commemorative tasting glass, festival program, door prize entry, and as many two ounce samples of great beer as you can responsibly consume for the length of the event. To order tickets, send a self-addressed-stamped-envelope (IMPORTANT!) with your check for $18 per ticket (payable to Madison Homebrewers and Tasters Guild, or MHTG if you like to save ink) to: Madison Homebrewers and Tasters Guild Great Taste XI Post Office Box 1365 Madison, Wisconsin 53701-1365 Tickets are expected to sell out by Memorial Day (if not earlier), so clear your calendar now to attend one of North America's longest-running beer tasting events. (Remember, though, no orders before May 1!! We want everyone to have a fair shot at getting tickets.) By May, we will have started a WWW site for the event if you need updates: http://www.globaldialog.com/madbrewers Now go have a beer, Bob Paolino rpaolino at earth.execpc.com Madison Have a beer today... for your palate and for good health Vice President, Madison Homebrewers and Tasters Guild For information, write to us at mhtg at stdorg.wisc.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 21:24:24 -0700 From: Jim Martin <fermntap at concentric.net> Subject: Joe Kolsh scales USA Hi, My name is Jim, and I'm a homebrewer... Joe, I've got a thing or two to say about that subject, so bear with me and my humble attempt to voice my opinion. ( who said" Any clod can have the facts, but having an opinion is an art"?) To begin with who is the average "Joe"? Pat Babcock asks, "what will it take to make better beer available to more people?" Education !!! If we are not aware of what's better, than we're happy with mediocre. Hell, we'd all be driving a horse and buggy if we were never introduced to "Better" What I'm saying is we do become accustomed to our surroundings. We get used to higher prices, higher taxes, higher living standards, we even come to expect it. We don't have to accept it. We can make a change. Education is the key. Today I was approched by a young man looking for work. I'm a general contractor, he was asking for a job,and I couldn't provide one for him. This bothers me. In spite of "unemployment statistic" the jobs that are available to the "average Joe" are LOW paying. You can't support a family on the "average job". What happened? This nation has exported manufacturing jobs one after another. Corporations one after another pack up and move to bigger profits by manufacturing products overseas and shipping them back to market here, where the average "Joe" buys, because he saves (.99cents). When you purchase that tool, or TV, or even those cheap little toy's made in China. What you are doing is supporting some corporate CEO. The "average Joe" gets layed off. That "average Joe is your neighbor or cousin or....homebrew supply retailer, who pays the taxes that support your community. As a manufacturer of brewing products I'm on a very small scale. I specify that materials be US manufactured. When I place an order at a local shop or even one in Ohio, it creates a job for that"average Joe". If I can do that with my small operation, just think of the effect that a large factory order would make on a whole community. (Or the lack of an order) Please, think about that "average joe" next time your shopping. You can make a difference!!! Dave, Re. Kolsh There are pretty strict guidlines for a Kolsh style beer. OG should not exceed 1.046 the other mistake I see is dry hopping. Hop aroma should be low. Dry- subtly sweet beer. A great beer in my opinion. Never knew a beer I didn't like! Scales doe ray me.... Ask your homebrew supplier to leave the bath scale at home and buy an inexpensive (under 100.) shipping scale. I use a digital type that is accurate to 1/4 #. Th Th Th That's all Folks.... Jim Martin, http://www.concentric.net/fermntap FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS DRIVE IMPORTS!!! Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 97 00:25:19 CDT From: Brian Bliss <brianb at microware.com> Subject: Re: Black & Tans >As has been pointed out, Guinness has a lower starting and finishing gravity >than most lagers used in B&T. Also, Guinness has a very low carbonation, >and the point of the gas mix and the tap is to lower the carbonation even >more and create the head. I think it has all to do with density (i.e. gravity Go make a Black and Tan with coors. You might ruin a good Guinness, but it still floats. I measured the FG of canned Guinness at 1.013 some time back. Actally - make that 1.011, since my hydrometer is +.002, and that was before I calibrated. Most brew are a little ligher (in density) than that. I agree that the OG of Guinness is lower than most beers. bb Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 97 00:48:47 CDT From: Brian Bliss <brianb at microware.com> Subject: Re: Black & Tans (more) Yes, you can make a Black and Tan with a bottled Guinness, but the effect is not the same. There is no nitrogen in solution to help the the Guinness separate and floating on top, so you have to pour VERY carefully. It is not a question of gravities/densities - even if the beer on the bottom is lighter / less dense than bottled Guinness, you can get it to float, but you don't get the marked separation that you get when dispensing the beer on top with an N2 mix. Anyway, I suggest that you go get a six pack of bottled Guinnes, a 4 pack of canned Guinness, some american pisswater, and some heaver denser beer that is still light enough to see though, like Tom Hardy's Ale. 1) let all the contestants decarbonate/denitrogenate and measure their S.G. 2) Try out the 4 variations of pouring canned or bottle Guinness on top of the other beer. Try 2 variations of pouring the canned guinness: just after the top is popped, and after it has decarbonated/denitrogenated. Use a spoon for the Guinness, and pour as carefully a possible. 3) Try the same thing, pouring a little rougher. In particular, try just pouring the canned Guinness down the side, without using a spoon. 3) Drink the evidence. Please report back on the 12 data points before reaching the conclusion that "it must be the gravity (density)"... bb Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 97 00:55:43 CDT From: Brian Bliss <brianb at microware.com> Subject: Re: lactic acid >Well, I added 1/4 *tsp* of lactic acid to the stike water as it was >heating. I stirred it for a few minutes and then rechecked expecting >to see a pH somewhat lower than 7.3 but what I got was a totally >unexpected 3.5! What the **** happened? Is this the cause of not >having enough buffer capacity in the water? What can be done to No, it's the result :-) go ahead and use the sparge water, and don't worry. When it hits the grain bed, the pH will rise, and 1/4 tsp. isn't enough to give 5 gal. of beer any off flavors. bb Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 97 09:30:01 +0200 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Torbj=F8rn_Bull-Njaa?= <torbjorn.bull-njaa at sds.no> Subject: Pitched vessels? I understand oak vessels are in great demand among brewers, for taste and nostalgic reasons. I also read the discussion regarding possible tannin differences in different kinds of oak etc. I find this topic somewhat confusing, as I had the understanding that these vessels traditionally were/are heavily pitched inside against leakage? Then the tannin exposure must be minimal? Provocative and ignorant greetings, Torbjorn Bull-Njaa, Oslo Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 97 03:06:55 CDT From: Brian Bliss <brianb at microware.com> Subject: more BT's, bb eats crow, and be kind to your homebrew store owner Feeling kinda pissed off about how everone had been sending me e-mail about what they read the SG of Guiness is instead of just getting out a hydrometer and looking for themselves, and conjecturing that it is the SG of Guinness that makes it float on top, I respond "just try it". Well, I decided to re-do at least half of my proposed experiment, so I bought some canned Guinness and a six of Sam Adam's ale on the way home tonight. For pisswater, I had some miller Lite in the fridge. The final gravities I masured were: Sam Adam's Ale: 1.015, Miller Lite: 1.002, and Guinness 1.011 (exactly as I had remembered. One thing I didn't remember: the previous 1.011 figure I had measured was from draugt Guiness bought at Murphy's Pub in Shampoo-Banana, IL., a long time ago). All figures include the correction for my inaccurate inaccurate hydrometer, so may be off by a little, but they are relatively correct. Guiness is not that light, by density standards, but it ain't heavy, either. So, no problem pouring a B&T on the Sam Adam's B&T, either with a vigorous pour or with a careful pour. Then I try pouring a B&T with the Miller light, with the remainder of the Can, and it mixes. Thinking I was just a little too violent with the pour, I try doing it carefully. The Guinness floated and formed a perfect layer on top, then, as soon as the N2 had bubbled out of solution, little streaks of Guinnes started sinking into the Miller Lite, until the whole thing was dark. shit. I know for a fact that it works with Leinenkugels! Anyway, N2 does indeed help keep the Guinness on top while pouring the B&T, and it does seems to be some pysical repulsion between the draught Guinness and the other beer while the Guinness is foaming. Once denitrogenated, though, it will sink into a beer that is much less dense. This leaves me wondering what will happen with a beer that is in the ~1.008 SG range. BTW, Miller Lite makes a really terrible Black & Tan. As far as the thread on the store owner using a bathroom scale to weigh out grains goes: Give the guy a break! I remember a few years back, the Weinkeller ran out of their usual 24 oz bottles, so was using 22 oz. bottles, but was using the same label. Not thinking (and just being glad that they were selling their beer in bottles again, I mentioned this on the HBD. I don't know if a law enforcement official read it or not, but sure enough, they got busted. At least I mentioned the fact that they shouldn't be doing this to the guy at the counter, so I can keep a clear consience, but considering the fact that I like their beer, I should have kept my trap shut. There's no better way to get someone in trouble than to advertise their crime over the internet. bb Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 07:38:48 EDT From: pbabcock.ford at e-mail.com Subject: Re: N2 Nyyyyyaaaaaagggggghhhhhhh Pat Babcock Internet: pbabcock.ford at e-mail.com VO Body Launch Specialist- PN150/1 EAP ****>>>> PLEASE USE PF5 WHEN REPLYING TO THIS NOTE!!!! <<<<**** Subject: Re: N2 Nyyyyyaaaaaagggggghhhhhhh I said: > "There are several theories as to why bubbles form in the first > <SNIP> > will nitrogen dissolve in beer? Any takers on the experiment? What I left out was that, under Henry's Law, if nitrogen dissolves in beer, it will do so whether the beer is carbonated or not. The partial pressure of nitrogen on either side of a permeable boundary will rush to equilibrium ("rush", in this sense is relative...). The question remains (in my pointed head, anyway) whether the beer/headspace boundary is permeable to N2 on the beer side. Best regards, Patrick G. Babcock PN150/1 Launch - Edison Assembly Plant (908)632-5930 x5501 Route 1 South, Edison, NJ 08818-3018 Fax (908)632-4546 Page 800-SKY-PAGE PIN: 544-9187 Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 08:44:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Dckdog at aol.com Subject: brew hiatus Hmmmrph, I'm sitting here dreaming about my next brew adventure. I had an arthroscopy and general clean up of a skateboard ruined right ankle two weeks ago, damn my fearless youth. My two faithful labs are keeping me company and my wife is my chauffer-no driving for another 4 weeks. I've done a partial grain IPA and a pilsner along with a dark beer and a stout which were all extract, any ideas for my next brew? I don't really favor fruit beers but maybe a wheat would be a good guess, any experience with wheat extract brews? Dean (go Sabres!) Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 06:07:47 -0700 From: popeman at webtv.net (Tom Pope) Subject: Care and Feeding of aCajun Cooker I have used cajun cookers for brewing for years. I had some problems with soot, but found they were caused by debri in the jets or orifices of the cooker. Usually, it was spider webs! Seems these critters are very fond of the cajun's contours for making a home. If you use a brush or gas to blow out the gunk before you brew , soot buildup should not be a problem. I have also found that adjustable pressure regulators are a big help in controlling flame color and flame temperature and size. Tom Pope Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 08:10:23 -0500 From: Jim Herter <james.m.herter.1 at nd.edu> Subject: Cajun Cookers I added a $45 Cajun Cooker from Metal Fusion. Inc. to my brewing arsenal a little over a year ago. I got it from Sam's Club, but most any larger retail operation will carry them in the outdoor/garden/camping section. It wasn't long after purchasing mine that I added it to my "must have" equipment list. I think that many different lp gas cookers are called "Cajun." The one that I own is a ring-style burner which more evenly distributes heat. I've heard tales of the jet-style burners causing scorching and burning because they concentrate the heat into a smaller area of the pot. My cooker is rated at 170,00btu. I can bring 13 gallons of water to a boil in an hour on a cold winter day. As far as scorching goes, the burner has an adjustable orifice for controlling the gas/air ratio. If your brewing buddy is getting soot, it's possible that the burner needs adjusted. You can quickly see if it's out of calibration if the flame is predominantly orange-yellow. It should be, for the most part, blue. If there is too much air intake the result will be allot of carbon build up and an inefficient heat source. This could be the soot problem source. These cookers also have an inline needle valve that allows for pretty good control of the flame. You can also open this valve all the way and use the valve on the gas tank itself for control. I would not hesitate to advise you to buy the cooker that I have. There are probably other quality ones out there - just make sure you get the ring-style burner. Jim Herter - Business Manager Notre Dame Food Services 219.631.0113 Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 06:18:22 -0700 From: popeman at webtv.net (Tom Pope) Subject: Got Beer? I seem to recall reading an article recently which stated that 60% of beer sold in U.S. is under $2.99 a six pack, 30% sold is between $2.99 and $3.99, and the rest is over $3.99. Of that remaining 10%, about 70 to 80% is imported. It seems like it will be a very long time, if ever, until Joe six pack is drinking up all the microbrews..Tom Pope Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 10:30:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Rae Christopher J <3cjr7 at qlink.queensu.ca> Subject: extract-specialty grains ok, about two or three weeks ago i posted a question re: using extract and specialty grains for swell brewing. i received lotza advice, happily most of it disagreeing with charlie pap's advice (good instructions, but a little bird told me nothing is that simple). so, here's a summary. 1. despite common usage (at least around me) this is not a partial mash. 2. crush the grains. either zip-loc bag-em and use a rolling pin, or get a mill. i have since found out that my local homebrew shop will let me use thier mill for free (they even offered to grind it for me!!), so i strongly urge other new-to-grain brewers to inquire about that at their local shops. 3. to perform this well, take the grains, either in a grain bag or not, and put them in the water. raise the temperature to 149-168 F (although most were 155-165, this was the total of all ranges). Alternately, you raise the temp to 170, then drop the grains in, which will cool the temp to an appropriate level. 4. maintain this temp range, being careful not to get to 170F (this will leach out astringent tannins-yuck, but "damage" occurs at 180F), for somewhere between 5 and one hour (though the most agreed that 30 min is best). 5. next, drain off the liquid (or liquor in charlie pap's language), the sparge (pour) 0.5-2 gal hot (whatever temp you steeped at) water through. this step is controversial, with some sying it is unneccesary, some saying it is absolutely vital, some saying it is a very poor plan indeed. 6. now, take all that yummy liquid and biol it up with the malt extract and hops. can i use the hops in the bag for ease of straining? sure, but i'll need to add ~10% extra hops. so, thanks to all for the advice! kudos to: j goldthwaite p brian m arnold p walsh d riedel s rogerson ah, soon i shall brew again.... and brew well.... ___________________________________________________________ This is Chris' signature: C____ R__ &% His home page is at http://qlink.queensu.ca/~3cjr7/ Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 11:48:26 -0400 From: lachina at mindspring.com (Lorne P. Franklin) Subject: Access to Snob Micros Steve Snyder says: >Until the major breweries >start making better, cheaper beer, Joe-Six-Pack won't drink them >because he can't afford them. I know more than a couple of people that >can't afford to drink Micros, even though they prefer them, they are >just too expensive. Hell, I can't afford to buy them! Eight bucks for a six pack! Get real. The stuff is WAY overpriced, in my opinion. Which is why I started brewing four years ago. Now, I get 50 bottles of beer that is as good as most micros, and sometimes exceptionally good, for $12-15. Let's see, $16 for twelve snob micros with mountain-laden labels, or $15 for over two cases . . . hmmmm . . . what to do. Lorne Cleveland, OH Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 11:29:08 -0500 From: Glyn Crossno <Crossno at novell2.tn.cubic.com> Subject: Beer in Whiskey Barrels Goose Island brew pub, Chicago, had on tap at one time a beer aged in Jim Beam barrels. Very nice! When I brew a barley wine could I secondary in a whiskey barrel? Glyn Crossno Estill Springs, TN Crossno at novell2.tn.cubic.com - -- But there were plane to catch, And bills to pay .... Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 09:47:06 -0700 From: "Brander Roullett (Volt Computer)" <a-branro at MICROSOFT.com> Subject: GOT BEER? Kegs for cheap? Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 08:20:38 -0500 From: Rust1d <rust1d at usa.net> Subject: Got Beer? John Varady says.... I was just thinking last night about how the mirco industry needs to form a coalition much like the dairy industry. We could then be entertained by cute commercials about running out of beer at the least opportune moment. Consumers should be aware of just what 'beer' is and can be. It would be cool to see 30 seconds spots on tv about different beer styles. I also have seen these commercials, and had a great idea for a spoof on the "got milk" billboards with cute little kittens on it. I am part of a Medieval Recreation Society (sca) and we do wars and heavy fighting on a regular basis. i have a vision of lineing up some of the bigger boys in armour, hot and sweaty from tourney field, growling into the camera on a white background (like the billboards) with the suggested title "Got Beer?" On a seperate note, i would like to find sources for 3,5,10 gallon Corny kegs for reasonably cheap. my local HB store has one keg for $50 bucks. i have heard of places that send them for $20 or better. any one got any good sources? Brander (Badger) Roullett badger at nwlink.com a-branro at microsoft.com Homepage: http://www.nwlink.com/~badger Brewing: http://www.nwlink.com/~badger/badgbeer.html Resume: http://www.nwlink.com/~badger/resume.html - ----------------------In The SCA---------------------- Lord Frederick Badger of Amberhaven, TWIT, Squire to Sir Nicholaus Red Tree Pursuivant-Madrone, An Tir Marshal-College of St Bunstable "You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline--it helps if you have some kind of football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer." -- Frank Zappa Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 11:17:02 -0700 From: "Mark Bridges" <mbridges at coastnet.com> Subject: Joe Average and the Brewpub Pat has a good point - making quality beer more available to the public. I think the brewpub has another function to fulfill and that is the provision of an environment conducive to the enjoyment of quality beers. It was'nt very many years ago in my neck of the woods (and maybe yours as well) that your choice of beer was extremely limited. Beer that had little in the way of flavour or character, but was easily consumed in large quantities. Where you had to drink this was called a beer parlour - full of smoke and often full of people drinking to excess which brings it's own problems. (A few decades ago men and women even had separate entrances to drinking establishments around my hometown) And there were also a lot of people who wouldn't mind going out for a beer, but did not wish to put up with that sort of environment. Times are changing, and the brewpub can be a positive part of the community, rather than simply "a bar". My favorite brewpub has a clientele whose age ranges from their early 20's to their 80's. These people enjoy a far less smoky establishment, much better food, and an enjoyably relaxed atmosphere. And this is an excellent place to bring Joe Average for his first introduction to real beer. I don't expect him to try the ESB, but there is always something for him. And of course the beer will taste different to him, as it has not been brewed with adjuncts, pasteurized, or sterile filtered. It may be his first recognizable taste of hops! Wow! It may take decades, but Joe Average will learn to appreciate quality beer, which will not be looked upon as "fancy", just simply "good beer". Whoa, back to brewing. My next batch will be a Belgian Ale, and I will use Wyeast 3787 for the 1st time. From this forum I have seen mentioned that this strain is a prodigious top-cropper, and that banana esters may become too noticable if fermented above 70 F. Any other tips? I'm brewing this within the next 2 weeks. Cheers, Mark Return to table of contents
Date: 18 Apr 97 14:57:48 EDT From: aesoph at ncemt1.ctc.com (Aesoph, Michael) Subject: New Recruit Dear Collective: I have a friend in NJ that wants to become a home brewer. Can anyone recommend a home brew store and perhaps a home brewer's guild in the area of Parsippany or Picatinny Arsenal??? ================================================== Michael D. Aesoph Associate Engineer ================================================== Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 14:40:19 -0500 From: Steve Zabarnick <steve at snake.appl.wpafb.af.mil> Subject: Solubility of nitrogen Pat Babcock asks: >So, again: >will nitrogen dissolve in beer? Any takers on the experiment? Here are some literature values for solubility (ppm by mass) of nitrogen and CO2 in water (close enough to beer for our purposes). These numbers assume that the water is in a 100% nitrogen (or CO2) environment at one atmosphere. Temp (F) Nitrogen Solubility CO2 Solubility (ppm) (ppm) 77 18.4 1640 41 26.4 2995 32 29.7 3565 Notice that the solubility of nitrogen is much lower (by about a factor of 100) than CO2. Steve Zabarnick Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 15:21:32 -0400 From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com> Subject: Minnesota Beers Erik says, >Forget saving space, everyone should know about Sherlock's Home, >in Minnetonka. At least 7 ales and lagers, in traditional english >style, from the malt, to the cask conditioning, and not to mention >hand pulled from the beer engines. They also have great food, too. While I agree Sherlock's Home has very good food, I cannot concur about the beers. I go there often when in Minneapolis on business and I find their beers very inconsistent. Sometimes it's very good. But many times it way below good. On a recent trip there, every one of their beers was overly asstringent as if they had some systematic problem in temperature/pH/sparge control. Whereas I've found Summit to be very consistent and enjoyable. If Sherlock's Home were to get control of their processes it could indeed be excellent. But just serving poor beer at 52oF does not make it good. Dave Houseman Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 14:39:00 -0500 From: Rob Kienle <rkienle at interaccess.com> Subject: Counter Pressure Filler Recs Does anyone have a recommendation for the best/easiest to use Counter Pressure filler (besides yet another trip to Home Depot to build my own!)? Hoptech has a pretty inexpensive model that boasts an "automated" adjustable pressure relief valve, which on other models seems mostly "un"-automated but also usually has a hose attached to it which makes me wonder if the feature on this model is more like a pressure relief "spray." - -- Cheers4beers, Rob Kienle Chicago, IL rkienle at interaccess.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 17:44:40 -0400 (EDT) From: DJBrew at aol.com Subject: SRM conversion to EBC I've seen many post for people want infomation to convert SRM into EBC or vise versa. First, SRM = Lovibond. Here's the formula. SRM = ( EBC x 0.375 ) + 0.46 EBC = ( SRM - 0.46 ) / 0.375 So a 20 lovibond crystal malt is equal to a 52 EBC crystal malt, at least in color. Hope this is helpfull. Dan Soboti Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 08:42:17 +1000 (EST) From: Charlie Scandrett <merino at buggs.cynergy.com.au> Subject: "Phenols" and stuff that ain't stuff Dave Burley wrote >Al K wrote >>2. Polyphenol extraction is a necessary evil. Charlie Scandrett suggests >>Crushing less and making do with poorer yield to minimise polyphenol and >>Silicate extraction. >I was puzzled by Charlie's comment on this. Surely the size of the husk >could have no effect on the extraction of phenols since the husk is so >thin. I have noticed that when I give a second pass through the mill that >many crushed malt particles are released from the husk. This could expose >more of the husk to fluid from both sides, but I still think it is a >stretch. I am always puzzled by brewers' tendency to lump all parts of a chemical class together as though they were the same, beers aren't. The logical fallacy of summation and division is best refuted in the advertising expression, "oils ain't oils". (sophistry sometimes contains a kernel of truth) Phenols ain't phenols and husks ain't husks either. Beer has a complex mixture of phenolic compounds from about 150 mg/l to 350 mg/l in concentration. About 2/3 are malt derived and 1/3 hop derived. They fall into two broard (some say "vague"!) categories, a)the semi-volatile Monophenols (phenolic acids, alcohols and amines) and Monomeric phenols (flavonoids, anthocyanogens, catechins and flavanols) and b)the non-volatile condensed Dimeric and Polymeric phenols (polymers of the above). The volatile phenols are aroma active compounds and originate from raw materials, processing and yeast fermentation. e.g. Ferulic acid from barley is reduced by Bavarian wheat yeasts to the prized aromatic Vinyl Phenol, 4-vinylguaiacol. Residual chlorine from water or sanitisers can combone with simple phenols to produce the medicinal aroma of the Chlorophenols with very low thresholds (<1 microG/litre). Wild yeasts and bacteria will also preduce undesirable phenolic aromas. It is thought that during boiling some Phenolic Acids are decarboxylated to flavour active compounds which are oxidized to the corresponding aldehydes. 4-hydroxycinnamic acid is a suspect here. Phenolic aroma compounds seem to fall into the desirable Floral range, or the undesirable Ethereal range. Amomg the larger condensed phenols, Al Korzonas has correctly picked up that it is not only *polyphenols* that are the problem, but *oxidisable polyphenols*. The simpler phenolic molecules are more polar, i.e. their relatively simple structure has more pronounced spots of unbalanced charges, they are electrically dipolar. Without going into detail, polar molecules are very soluble and in fact, the vast majority of all phenolic compounds are extracted with the first runnings! There are not many of these in hops. Eventually they will all complex into polyphenols under acid conditions and oxidise and complex with protein into haze. However good beer doesn't last long enough for this to happen significantly, it gets harvested. The real problem is the existing small fraction of less polar, i.e. more complex and large, polyphenols. Many fingers have been pointed at Cetechines (flavan-3-ols) and Anthocyanogens (flavan-3,4 diols) and especially their polymers. However some well known brewing lawyers claim that, while not exactly innocent, they are no more guilty than the rest of the population. (a new defense?) As you would have guessed by now, the polyphenols are not so soluble and if dissolved by higher pH water, are repulsed by the polar medium they are in. They thus tend to floc together like friends in a hostile crowd (hydrophobic force)and with catalysts like metal ions and oxygen, complex with other large molecules fairly quickly. This is the unsightly but essentially tasteless so-called "tannin-protein haze". (it actually contains many other components of the wort). The protein neutralizes the tanning power of tannoids, because these, on their own, have a definite dry astringent taste! The oxidized polyphenols with tanning power (MWt 700-1000) are called "tannoids" (or tannigens) and they try to turn your taste buds into leather. They do this by covalently crosslinking proteins in your taste buds as they do in tanning leather and forming haze. They were not intended to do this, they actually seem to be in the *"husk fraction"* (my emphasis) as an astringent inhibitor of fungal and bacterial attack on the barley corn. The oxidized polyphenols in sweet wort will *readily complex out* as hot break. Despite their size, they are a *first and middle runnings* extraction problem and are best controlled by recycling wort through the hot break in the grain bed, or vigorous boiling to form hot break during the boil. The unoxidized, *oxidizable* polyphenols are less soluble and a *late runnings problem* and a large portion can survive into the hopped wort, waiting for oxygen so as to cause haze and astringency problems by becoming Tannoids. The "husk fraction" in brewing literature includes the True Leafy Husk and the bits of *fused-on* Pericarp/Testa & Aleurone layer. Many of the problematic polyphenols in the True Leafy Husk of malt have been leeched out during repeated steeping. However there are also high concentrations of problematic polyphenols in the Pericarp/Testa and Aleurone layers. These are some of the least modified (enzymically broken down) parts of the malt corn and contain the least extract. As least modified, they are thus more likely to remain as big bits in a coarse crush. The sparge process removes extract from *between* and from *within* the kibble of the grain bed. The osmotic leaching process of removing extract (of anything soluble) from *within* bits is slowed down if the bits are big. The solvent (water) simply has further to penetrate. If the big bits are the "husk fraction",i.e. low in fermentable extract, high in oxidizable polyphenols, then THIS IS A "GOOD THING"! (my emphasis) If the big bits happen to be starchy Endosperm bits, then advanced gelatinization of starch for better extract of sugar IS A "GOOD THING"! (my emphasis) Crush coarse, gelatinise well! Charlie (Brisbane, Australia) Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 19:09:36 -0400 From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: Casks, Brewsters: As soon as I pushed the button I knew I hadn't completed my discussion of oak casks. I wanted to say something about Porter/stale beer. Others have gratefully provided additional refining input which I summarize here. Jim Liddil sent me to his website www.U. Arizona.Edu/~jliddil to look at pictures of yeasts and bacteria inside pieces of wood that had been soaked in lambic beer and traditional ciders. I would have preferred it if the blocks had had their ends sealed to prevent easy access of the microorganisms. Jim assures me that even barrel staves show this contamination internally, but agrees with me that for brief normal beer storage, microorganism this deep in the wood probably do not pose a contamination problem relative to those on the surface. Although this wasn't the point I was making, it demonstrates that wood is an excellent source of contamination and has the ability to carry it forward into future brews. The cracks between the staves ( even though the barrel has been "disinfected", are difficult to clean and provide the source for contamination. This is exactly what is wanted in these products and also in the Belgian Red Ales, like Rodenbach as Dave Hinkle points out. Michael Jackson in his Beer Companion points out that these red ales are aged in "unlined" casks, thereby implying that other beers are aged or at least stored in "lined" casks, such as De Clerk points out. Lining of casks was therefore used for beers that one didn't want to get sour from contamination in the wood of the cask. It is potentially conceivable that in the Olde days, unlined casks for short term British beers that were fermented in say 5 days, kegged and sent to the pub could have been drunk in a few days and would have been OK. This would have required the beer to have been highly hopped, high in alcohol content and kept cool. All possible, if beer deliveries were local. However, even if the casks were new, a short stay like this would hardly have time for the beer to pick up oakiness. The major number of casks were not new. .As I commented above, I also thought of the old Porter/Stale beer which was likely stored in un-lined casks so it would stale quicker. Also as you may know Breweries tended to use larger and larger casks and this would minimize the surface volume ratio and perhaps prolong the life of the beers in the absence of sanitation. My point in this whole discussion is that is unlikely you will get much from your effort even if you were to go to get and use wooden casks. Of course, there is nothing to prevent you from using sterilized oak chips ( boil for 20 minutes in water and use the water as well as the chips, or pressure cook for 10 minutes at 15 lbs - preferred) to give your beer an oakey taste. Start at around 4 ounces/5 gallons for a subtle taste in one of your big hoppy nosed IPA's. Keep on brewin' Dave Burley Kinnelon, NJ 07405 103164.3202 at compuserve.com Dave_Burley at compuserve.com Voice e-mail OK Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 07:14:40 -0400 From: "David Root" <droot at concentric.net> Subject: Krausen that would not die Charlie says his krausen won't die Ale yeast is top fermenting and I think you have a yeast cake on top. I ferment in a 1/2 keg with a 12" hole cut in the top. I ferment at cool temps for the yeast and when fermentetion is complete, I draw the beer out from under the yeast through a drain cock in the bottom. All I have left is the yeeast when I am done. This works great with 1007 german ale yeast. I don't want the yeast cake to fall back into the beer. When I rack, the beer is clear and I don't need a choreboy, or have to siphon. David Root Droot at concentric.net Lockport NY Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 23:57:17 -0400 From: Chris King <king1679 at medic41.com> Subject: Oak This info may be based on old info. They use to only use French oak for wine because when the people used french oak to make a cask it was for wine. And when the Wineries from the USA tried to use cask made in the states they had poor results because they where using cask that were for the distillers or being made by people who had no experience in making cask for wine use. Since then there are plenty of cask being made in the US with wood grown here and they make great wine out of this. Some still like to argue that French Oak is worth the expense most most will agree that it has more to do with how it is treated then where it was grown. "I was just reading (I think) Michael Jackson who opined that the oak in the US is not of the right sort (?). Something like too many tannins " Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 05:51:05 -0400 From: "Lorena Barquin Sanchez" <mbarquin at telcel.net.ve> Subject: Stainless Steels Gentlemen: I would like to know which are the grades of stainless steel most suitable for brewing. Also besides the grades, I was asked if I wanted sanitary ss or regular ss. I was initially told that sanitary ss means that besides the grade, these ss are surface polished. Can anyone please tell me where is the truth in all of this? Thank you Lorenzo Barquin Maracay,Venezuela Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 13:37:37 -0400 (EDT) From: DGofus at aol.com Subject: Re: Mini Kegs I have a few questions for the collective. Iam a newbie, extract brewer. I have 7 batches under my belt ( over my belt is more like it : ( ). Questions are 1.) has anybody tried the mini keg sytems? , and are they a good investment? 2.) I am using bleach to sanitize....Okay or not. I have heard varying ideas, some say good others say the worst thing that I can be doing. 3.) What kind of beer or recipe can I make for guests and friends that do not share a passion for good beers....you all know the ones- That beer is too dark, or that is too bitter, do you have coors light(egad). Help! thanks in advance private E-mail okay Bob Fesmire Pottstown, PA Madman Brewery Dgofus at aol.com Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 16:59:59 -0400 From: Dave Bartz <gbrewer at iquest.net> Subject: DME/LME conversion, using hot tap water, shop scales, King Brew dudes and dudettes: Bob Tisdale wrote: >>I recently cooked up a batch of pale ale using 5 lbs of Laglander Dry Malt Extract. According to the formula, lbs of DME X 1.8 = lbs of LME, I used 9 lbs of LME. However, the O.G. was only 1.042! Can anyone explain what happenned?<< The formula for converting DME to its in LME is actually the DME amount divided by .8, since most LME is 20 percent water. If you used 9lbs of LME in a 5 gallon recipe, your O.G. def. should have been higher than 1.042. Is it possible the wort was not thoroughly mixed, thus resulting in a diluted sample? Is your hyrdrometer accurate? (Test in plain water). Paul Niebergall says: >>What goes into your hot water heater, generally comes out. There is nothing to be afraid of. If anything, inorganics precipitate out in your water heater (that's why it's caked with crud).<< I would have to agree with Paul. To save time, I have consistently use hot tap water in my brewing procedures, from a 12 yr. old water heater, with no perceived negative effects, It is a cause for concern though, and anyone with empirical evidence please come forward. Rick Olivo continues his discussion of scales at hbrew shops with: >>This is NOT asking too much; it is in fact a moral as well as legal obligation that any commercial operation bears to their customer. A certified scale or at the very least, a scale that is checked with a reference weight frequently is, in my view, a cost of doing business, not an option.<< Rick is right. A scale that is legal for trade only has to have a 3000 unit capacity e.g. can measure up to 3000 grams, oz centigrams or whatever. We have used one since our inception and any serious homebrew retailer who is looking out for their customer's beer should have an one as well (for both legal and ethical reasons). They are not that expensive. $150 or so. MaltyDog at aol.com posts: >>Now that the weather's starting to get nice (sort of, anyway), I'm thinking about brewing outside, and I am considering getting a Cajun Cooker for outdoor brewing. A friend of mine, who is a very good brewer, told me that he had a lot of problems with cooking with them, though, especially with soot, and scorching beneath the cooker. Is this a common difficulty with these devices? Is there anything special you have to do with them to avoid this? Are there any particular models that are more highly recommended?<< Because your typical King Kooker/Cajun Cooker puts out 200,000 BTU's, which can bring 12 gallons of liquid to a boil in a half hour to 45 minutes, there is a good deal of carbon residue that will end up on the bottom of your kettle. The easiest way to counteract this is by covering the bottom of your kettle with a film of liquid dish soap. Then, after your done brewing, the carbon will wipe right off. Personally, I don't use this technique simply because this soot on the bottom of a converted 1/2bbl keg kettle has not been a big deal. Since its my brewing kettle and nothing else, I figure it will always have some soot on the bottom so so what. The conveinance and utility of the cooker is def. worth a little soot. Actually gives it some character. Dave Bartz The Gourmet Brewer "Beer is good" -5000 BC Return to table of contents