HOMEBREW Digest #2402 Tue 22 April 1997

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@ brew.oeonline.com
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Mash pH / Iodine test / Preserving Wort (Jim Wallace)
  Low Extraction... need help! (Jim Wallace)
  Re: Kolsch style (Sharon/Dan Ritter)
  Questioning accuracy of data on Saccharification Temperature Range (Charles Burns)
  REAL ALE (kathy)
  Thermostat for lagering (JohnT6020)
  re: Beer Hiatus (Meercat)
  Cheap Kegs ("Kieran O'Connor")
  Contest Results (Btalk)
  Brew historian help needed: Bride Ale (Amy West)
  Founding a Homebrew Club (TheTHP)
  Micro prices (Steve Stuart)
  Newcastle brown ale recipe? ("Sebastian Dunne")
  Final Announcement (Mark Taratoot)
  kraeusening ("Ken Smith")
  beer rights ("Bryan L. Gros")
  Brewing and Beer Traditions in Norway (TOM ELIASSEN)
  Thermometers/Hop Tea/Bandwidth A (eric fouch)
  Mash Schedules (Bruce Baker)
  pH/Oak casks/140F rest (korz)
  NJ brewer,CP bottle filler, mini-kegs,bleach ("David R. Burley")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 17:02:31 -0500 From: Jim Wallace <jwallace at crocker.com> Subject: Mash pH / Iodine test / Preserving Wort Lots of Questions: 1...pH of mash!... I have been trying to keep this in the range OF 5.2-5.5 to control the extraction of husk tannins. I thought I was doing just fine until I relized I was cooling mash sample to 65F to measure the pH and have just recently heard that my actual pH at 153F would be ~.35 higher making my very acceptable reading of 5.3 actually becomes 5.65 putting it in the upper part of this range. ...Should I be concerned and use phosphoric acid to acidify this mash? ...Is there agreement on this .35 pH increase at the higher temp range? 2...Starch Iodine test!... I have been checking for conversion before mashout(after 60-90 min conversion rest) by testing the liquid part of my mash with iodine. After my most recent mash I also pulled some grains in a separate examination and pressed them with the back of my spoon. I found the iodine tested positive for starch here. ...Will this starch be rinsed into the wort during lautering or is it still pretty well bound up in the bits of grit? ...What happens to it as I raise the temp to 168F? Should I expect unconverted starch to be rinsed into my wort? ...Considering that gelatinization is effective at 149F and I have been holding this mash above this for at least 60 mins, why the unconverted starch? Am I dealing with limited enzyme availability or activity here (American Klages Malt used)? 3...Preserving Extra Wort for yeast starters... My last batch provided me with some extra wort which I decide to bottle. I racked it into 22 oz bootles ... placed into my kettle with boiling water up to the liquid level of the wort... Placed caps loosly on tops ... boiled for 30-45 min... pulled bottles out and capped .. let cool. ...Is this a sound procedure for preserving wort for yeast starters or wort for conditioning beer? How do other people do this? Any comments would be appreciated. ________________________________________ JIM WALLACE ___ jwallace at crocker.com http://www.crocker.com/~jwallace Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 17:02:29 -0500 From: Jim Wallace <jwallace at crocker.com> Subject: Low Extraction... need help! I have been brewing with all grain for the past year (8-10 batches) and feel I am getting a much lower extraction than others out there. My most recent batch: (American Pale Ale)12.25 Lbs of grain (AmerKlages,Cryst,Munich) MashIn at 131F_20min Convert at 154F_90 Min (drops to 150 at end) MashOut at 168F_10 Lauter lasted 1 hr and grain bed stayed at 166-168 I collect 8.25 Gallons of wort.. boil off 2 Gallons in 90 Min boil.. loose .75 Gal as Trub .. finishing with a batch of 5.5 Gal and an OG of 1.052. I figure my efficiency to be 75% but others expect 80-90% from their batches... Any Ideas on improving my efficiency? ________________________________________ JIM WALLACE ___ jwallace at crocker.com http://www.crocker.com/~jwallace Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 17:27:39 -0700 From: Sharon/Dan Ritter <ritter at camasnet.com> Subject: Re: Kolsch style David Johnson writes: >I recently entered a home brew competition and scored pretty well in >the most part. The reason I am writing is to discuss the beer that did the >poorest. I tried to make a Kolsch bier. Of course, there were several >problems. First of all, I had been brewing less than a year. Also, I didn't >have access to any commercial examples to know what I was trying for. I also >didn't have access (at the time I brewed the beer) to this forum to ask the >learned community for help. It turned out to be a good beer but not to style. >It was a light (srm~6), clear, golden beer with a nice head, decent hop >character in bitterness, flavor and aroma and minimal fruitiness. In >competition it scored a 26. Take that score with a grain of salt and don't necessarily jump to the conclusion that you brewed out of style from the results of one competition. Recently I had an English Special Bitter score in the mid and upper 20's by two judges in the first round of the competition. In the second round two new judges scored it 39 and 40! Remember not all judges in all competitions are experts at the style they are judging. I have alot of respect for people that take the time and effort to become certified beer judges (I'm studying at the moment). My only point is that any beer can be judged incorrectly if the person judging doesn't have much experience tasting the real thing. As you point out, Kolsch is a difficult style to find at the local Safeway. Dan Ritter <ritter at camasnet.com> Ritter's MAMMOTH Brewery - Grangeville, Idaho Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 97 15:35 PDT From: cburns at egusd.k12.ca.us (Charles Burns) Subject: Questioning accuracy of data on Saccharification Temperature Range With the problems I've encountered with decoction mashing and protein resting, I decided to try a new method last week. Making my first American brown, I decided to mashin at 135f for a protein rest, pull a third or so of the mash for a quick decoction and boost to 158f. I completed that, made a good looking and tasting wort and will post more details when beer is finished. However, the interesting part is that 2/3 of the mash stayed at exactly 135F for about 30 minutes. I got my fingers in there somehow (could be on purpose but I can't remember) and I ended up tasting the mash. Imagine my surprise when it tasted sweet! Wait a minute, I said to myself, this is a rest to break up large proteins to medium size proteins, not Saccharification. Hmmmm. Some of you may have noticed my skepticism over some of the statistics and temperatures mentioned over the last couple of months. I decided to do a little experiment. Yesterday, I mashed 1 pound of Great Western Pale ALE malt at 135F to 130F for 1 hour in 1 quart of water (untreated). I did it on the stove top, not my usual setup. The temperature stayed between 130F and 135F the entire time. PH was a little high at 5.9 but I wasn't going for max conversion, I just wanted to see if sugar would be created. I tested for starch every 15 minutes. The reaction got steadily less as time went on, but even after 1 hour I still had starch in the mash. I wanted to keep going but the wife had other ideas yesterday. I shut down the mash at 1 hour. I sparged very sloppily in a kitchen strainer with 2 quarts of water at 180F, not worrying about mashout. The result was a really VERY cloudy 2.5 quarts. I assume there was tons of starch left. I boiled it down to 2 quarts total volume of wort. The OG was 1.036 (18 pts/gal/lb). This of course is a very bad extraction rate. BUT, the fact remains that more than 54% (assuming available = 33 pts) of the starch DID get converted to sugar (I think that's all the OG is measuring). My guess is that it's almost all (maybe 100%) maltose (fermentable). It is now happily bubbling away in a 1 gallon jug after I pitched a 7gm packet of Danstar dried ale yeast. I'll measure the final gravity in a week and report it then. My observation really is this - all the temperature's being talked about in all these posts about decoctions and saccharifcation ranges are to be taken with a grain of salt. Try stuff for yourself, do some experiments and you'll discover what works best for you and the malt that you have. I went back and compared Dave Millers Handbook to Noonan. They both recommend protein rests between 122F and 131F. I think I'll try a 125F protein rest next time I make a pale ale, boosting after 20 minutes to 155F. And you can bet I'll taste the mash during protein rest to see if it is also sweet at that low temp. Charley (feeling better about my data and my malt) in N. California Charley Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 22:47:31 -0500 From: kathy <kbooth at scnc.waverly.k12.mi.us> Subject: REAL ALE My wife has told me she'll drink beer in Europe if we ever went again. I figured that 3 times a day tasting enabled her to condition her tongue and it was a matter of overcomming her wine preference. When visiting NYC we wandered into "The Gingerman" pub on east 36th street after failing to find where the NYC homebrew contest was, and they had real ale on tap. My wife actually enjoyed the cask conditional ale pulled up on an engine and served English style. Have others had the experience with significant others who greet beer (anybodies-not just mine) with the "do I have to?" look on their face. Cheers....jim booth, lansing, mi email kbooth at waverly.k12.mi.us Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 01:52:07 -0400 (EDT) From: JohnT6020 at aol.com Subject: Thermostat for lagering Lager Brewers: Who is the vendor for the thermostat that is used to maintain lagering temperatures in a adapted chest freezer? I know there have been posts from satisfied users. Who can find them when you want them? I have also checked several issues of Zymurgy, BYO and Techniques without finding the ads that I know I have seen. TIA 73, JET Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 00:25:53 -0700 From: Meercat <steveq at imagina.com> Subject: re: Beer Hiatus Dean states: >Hmmmrph, I'm sitting here dreaming about my next brew adventure. I had an >arthroscopy and general clean up of a skateboard ruined right ankle two weeks >ago, damn my fearless youth. My two faithful labs are keeping me company and >my wife is my chauffer-no driving for another 4 weeks. I've done a partial >grain IPA and a pilsner along with a dark beer and a stout which were all >extract, any ideas for my next brew? I don't really favor fruit beers but >maybe a wheat would be a good guess, any experience with wheat extract brews? > I recently had a hernia operation and was unable to brew at all for 3 months. I know what it can be like. I have made an excellent wheat beer from extract I use a local supplier's (Steinbart's in Portland, OR) wheat extract which is 65/35 wheat to malt ratio. This is also available as Northwestern wheat malt I believe. My recipe tends to be on the strong side as I buy it in 7# buckets and usually end up with an OG of 1.055. You can try to use 2 3.3# cans of a good wheat extract just be sure it is in the 60/40 ratio range. For hops I use approximately 15 IBUs of German noble hops, Hallertauer or Tetts. I personally prefer the Weinstephan (sp) wheat yeast and it gives a great spicy/banana aroma and flavor which is appropriate. Steve - --------------------------------------------------------------------- Steve <Meercat> Quarterman Zymurgy Forum - http://zymurgy.dm.net/ Home Page - http://www.dm.net/~steveq/ Portland OR <<---------->> steveq at imagina.com ICQ UIN 109308 - --------------------------------------------------------------------- Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 08:18:45 -0400 From: "Kieran O'Connor" <koconnor at cnyric.org> Subject: Cheap Kegs Regarding kegs: Saw this in a digest I subscribe to: Cornelious Kegs, 5 gallon ball lock, cleaned and santitized at factory $14.50 each for orders of twenty or more, UPS the least expensive hundred weight class, club price RCB Fermentation Equipment 916-723-8859 or e-mail <rcbequip at jps.net> I've ordered some: will report on the quality. Apparently they come cleaned by Pepsi. Cost with shipping to NY State makes the keg total $20 per. Kieran ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Kieran O'Connor Cortland City Schools/OCM BOCES Systems Consultant Syracuse, NY USA koconnor at cnyric.org (607) 753-6061 or (315) 433-8335 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 08:44:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Btalk at aol.com Subject: Contest Results PARLOR CITY BREW OFF RESULTS Saturday April 19, 1997 Binghamton, NY Belgian & Weizen Beers 1st. Phil Spanel Lemont, PA Weizenbock SCUM 2nd. Bob Talkiewicz Binghamton, NY Weizenbock BYI 3rd. Jeff Connor Binghamton, NY Dubbel Brown Ales 1st. Mark Eddy Ganesvoort, NY American BA ST 2nd. Don Hess Newark Valley, NY American BA BCFA 3rd. Ray Root Owego, NY American BA Stouts 1st. Peter Garofalo Syracuse, NY Foreign Stout SCBC 2nd. Gary Brodock Imp. Stout 3rd. Kurt Nelson Binghamton, NY Imp. Stout BYI Pale Ales & Bitters 1st. Dennis Everett N.Syracuse, NY Amer. PA SCBC 2nd. David Myers Manlius, NY Classic Eng. PA SCBC 3rd. Kurt Nelson Binghamton, NY Classic Eng. PA BYI Scottish Ales 1st. John Therriault Apalachin, NY Scottish Light BIER 2nd. Dennis Everett N. Syracuse, NY Scottish Light SCBC 3rd. Bill Heller Pennelville, NY Scottish Heavy SCBC Porters 1st. Dave King Endicott, NY Robust Porter BIER 2nd. Don Hess Newark Valley, NY Brown Porter BCFA 3rd. Peter Garofalo Syracuse, NY Brown Porter SCBC Strong Beers 1st. Peter Garafalo Syracuse, NY Barley Wine SCBC 2nd. Roger Haggett Endicott, NY Barley Wine BCFA 3rd. Bob Edwards Binghamton, NY Barley Wine Light Lagers 1st. Randy Lewis Clifton Park, NY Dortmund/Export HRBC 2nd. Ray Root Owego, NY Bohemian Pils 3rd. Ray Root Owego, NY American Premium Amber & Dark Lagers 1st. Dennis Van Zandt Skaneateles, NY Vienna SCBC 2nd. Paul Kowell Gansevoort, NY Munich Dunkel ST 3rd. Tom LaBarge Syracuse, NY Munich Dunkel SCBC Mixed Ales & Lagers 1st. Bob Talkiewicz Binghamton, NY Koelsch BYI 2nd. Peter Garafalo Syracuse, NY California Common SCBC 3rd. Stephen Rosenzweig Ontario, NY Koelsch Classic Style Fruit, Herb & Specialty 1st. Jeff Connor Binghamton, NY Amer. Prem. with Rye 2nd. Philip Spanel Lemont, PA IPA with herbs SCUM 3rd. Dennis Everett N. Syracuse, NY Strong Ale with Herbs SCBC Fruit, Herb & Specialty 1st. Andrew & Bernie Moon E. Syracuse, NY Herb Beer 2nd. John Niciase Selkirk, NY Herb Beer 3rd. Phil Stone, Eric Volcko E. Syracuse, NY Herb Beer & Jim Googale Meads & Ciders 1st. Dennis Everett N. Syracuse, NY Sparkling Metheglin SCBC 2nd. Dennis Everett N. Syracuse, NY Still Cyser SCBS 3rd. Bob Talkiewicz Binghamton, NY Still Traditional Mead BYI Best of Show BEER: BOB TALKIEWICZ KOELSCH Best of Show CIDER/MEAD: DENNIS EVERETT SPARKLING METHEGLIN Brew Club Key: BCFA = Broome County Fermenters Assoc. BIER = Brewers in Endicott Region BYI = Borderline Yeast Infectors HRBC = Hudson River Brew Club SCBC = Salt City Brew Club SCUM = State College Undergroung Maltsters ST = Saratoga Thoroughbrews Congratulations to all! The over all quality of this year's entries was pretty good...very few low scores were given. Thanks to all who judged and stewarded. We would not have been able to have such a smooth running contest without your help. Regards, Bob Talkiewicz, Binghamton, NY <btalk at aol.com> Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 97 08:43:36 EDT From: awest at webster.m-w.com (Amy West) Subject: Brew historian help needed: Bride Ale I need the help of a brewing/beer historian. Some friends want me to brew a "Bride Ale" for their wedding *next* May. I haven't a clue what this is. Is it a special, one-time brew that can be of my own devising? Is it a pale, a brown, or a dark ale? Can someone point me to some references/sources to use? Thanks, Amy West Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 09:19:07 -0400 (EDT) From: TheTHP at aol.com Subject: Founding a Homebrew Club To all those club members who helped found thier club, I am in the early stages of founding a Homebrew club in my hometown of Jackson Michigan. There are clubs in Kalamazoo, Lansing, Williamston and Ann Arbor, but all are over 45 minutes away. The local Brew Pub has been itching to start a club, so with thier help (as host) we have have a place to meet, drink and discuss homebrewing. Dave Dahl from the FORD club is joining me on this quest, he has a copy of the FORD clubs by-laws and general info. Would any of you be willing to send me similar information for comparison? I have contacted the AHA a couple of times, but their club program administrator, Brian Rezac, Has yet to respond. (its been a week, maybe he's on vacation? yea right;<) So I put out my quest for information to the most responsive and knowledgeable resource I know--YOU!!!! (bless your hearts) TIA Phil Wilcox Poison Frog Home Brewery JACKSON-Jackson Assoc. of Crazy Kraeuseners Sampling Oderiferous Nectars ;-) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 09:16:02 -0400 From: Steve Stuart <srstuart at voyager.net> Subject: Micro prices > Hell, I can't afford to buy them! Eight bucks for a six pack! Get = real. > The stuff is WAY overpriced, in my opinion. > which is why I started brewing four years ago. Now, I get 50 bottles = of > beer that is as good as most micros, and sometimes exceptionally good, = for > $12-15. Let's see, $16 for twelve snob micros with mountain-laden = labels, > or $15 for over two cases . . . hmmmm . . . what to do. In Michigan (Detroit area), micro prices are 8+. Even Sam Adams is like = $7.99. I was in Tuscon, AZ a few weeks ago and their prices were MUCH = lower. Sam Adams was going for $4.99! Is it the stores, the = distributors, or the micros themselves causing the excessive prices? Steve Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 97 9:51:45 EDT From: "Sebastian Dunne" <sdunne at nea.org> Subject: Newcastle brown ale recipe? Anyone know of a recipe that closely resembles Newcastle brown ale? An extract with specialty grains recipe would be best, but if you've got an all-grain recipe I'll take that too. Thanks in advance. Sebastian Dunne Technical Associate sdunne at nea.org ****************************************************************** Only the individual sender is responsible for the content of this message, and the message does not necessarily reflect the position or policy of the National Education Association or its affiliates. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 08:15:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Taratoot <taratoot at PEAK.ORG> Subject: Final Announcement Heart of the Valley Homebrewers Present: The 15th Annual Oregon Homebrew Competion and Festival At the Oregon Trader Brewery 140 Hill Street NE Albany, Oregon 97321 (Off Street Parking Available) Saturday, May 10th From 11 am to 5 pm JUDGING FOR THE 24 RECOGNIZED AHA BEER STYLES PLUS ALL THREE MEAD CATEGORIES We are looking forward to continuing the tradition of this festival in its fifteenth year as the longest running competition in the Pacific Northwest! This years activities will include several displays, a raffle, food concessions, and the opportunity to meet and talk with some of the best and most experienced homebrewers anywhere! Contact Jennifer Crum at bennyj at peak.org or Mark Taratoot at taratoot at peak.org or Visit our Web Site http://www.peak.org/~taratoot/fest.html for details! Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 12:37:15 +0000 From: "Ken Smith" <mail.iserv.net at mail.iserv.net> Subject: kraeusening I'm brewing a California Common this weekend and was thinking about kraeusening the beer for conditioning. There seems to be a shortage of information on this other than how it is done. What I need to know is for a 1.050 gravity beer, how much wort do I need to cask condition (in a 5 gallon corny) the beer. I was planning on pullin off a quantity of the wort before hopping to store for the kraeuesen step. At kegging time, I was thinking about taking the reserved portion of wort and re-boiling it to sterilize it and priming the keg with it. Am I on the right track? If so, how much wort should I use? If not, what would be a better way? Ken Smith Britten and Smith Brewing Co VyLtd Return to table of contents
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu From: "Bryan L. Gros" <grosbl at ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu> Subject: beer rights Pat wrote: >Accessibility. What about beer? Is there a "right" to good beer? I ask myself this a lot. Here in TN, "beer stores" are not allowed to sell beer > 5%abv. beer stores include brew pubs. Why should I, just because I happen to live in Tennessee, not be allowed to enjoy Salvator, Old Foghorn etc.? Just another case of the government messing where they shouldn't be.... - Bryan grosbl at ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu Nashville, TN Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 14:12:07 -0500 From: TOM ELIASSEN <TELIASSEN at aot.state.vt.us> Subject: Brewing and Beer Traditions in Norway Dennis Sherman posted a very nice book review (HBD #927?) in 1992 on "Brewing and Beer Traditions in Norway" by Odd Nordland which had been published in 1969. I am very interested in finding a copy of this book for my library, although, I'm sure that it is probably out-of-print and my only access to the book would be through an inter-library loan. Anybody out there familiar with this book? Anybody know where I could get a copy of this book? Any other information about home brewing and Norwegian beer making would be appreciated. Tom Eliassen teliassen at aot.state.vt.us Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 97 14:44 EST From: eric fouch <S=eric_fouch%S=fouch%G=eric%DDA=ID=STC021+pefouch%Steelcase-Inc at mcimail.com> Subject: Thermometers/Hop Tea/Bandwidth A Date: Monday, 21 April 1997 3:39pm ET To: STC012.PREQUEST at STC010.SNADS From: Eric.Fouch at STC001 Subject: Thermometers/Hop Tea/Bandwidth Abuse In-Reply-To: The letter of Monday, 21 April 1997 2:09am ET HBD- Just thought I'd chime in about thermometers: One point I haven't seen made about glass thermometer accuracy is the type of glass thermometer used: There are two types- total immersion and partial immersion thermometers. Partial immersion thermometers have an immersion line, usually a few inches above the bulb. If they are immersed deeper than that, they will give an inaccurate reading. Conversly, if a total immersion thermometer is not properly immersed (all but 12mm into the fliud), it will not read properly. There are Emergent Stem Correction formulas. If anyone is interested, e-mail me directly, I don't want to waste bandwidth yet (that is coming). I made some interesting hop tea the other day- I took 1/2 ounce Cascade hops that had spent 1 week dry hopping an APA, boiled it in 2 qts water, diluted to one gallon and sweetened with 3/4 corn sugar. Its good for beddybye time. If you try it, avoid dropping the hop bag in the trub. Now for the wasted bandwidth: Lets all learn to laugh at ourselves, then then hold hands and sing Kum-by-ya. Q: How many internet mail list subscribers does it take to change a light bulb? A: 1,331: 1 to change the light bulb and to post to the mail list that the light bulb has been changed 14 to share similar experiences of changing light bulbs and how the light bulb could have been changed differently. 7 to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs. 27 to point out spelling/grammar errors in posts about changing light bulbs. 53 to flame the spell checkers 156 to write to the list administrator complaining about the light bulb discussion and its inappropriateness to this mail list. 41 to correct spelling in the spelling/grammar flames. 109 to post that this list is not about light bulbs and to please take this email exchange to alt.lite.bulb 203 to demand that cross posting to alt.grammar, alt.spelling and alt.punctuation about changing light bulbs be stopped. 111 to defend the posting to this list saying that we all use light bulbs therefore the posts **are** relevant to this mail list. 203 to demand that cross posting to alt.grammar, alt.spelling and alt.punctuation about changing light bulbs be stopped. 111 to defend the posting to this list saying that we all use light bulbs therefore the posts **are** relevant to this mail list. 306 to debate which method of changing light bulbs is superior, where to buy the best light bulbs, what brand of light bulbs work best for this technique, and what brands are faulty. 27 to post URLs where one can see examples of different light bulbs. 14 to post that the URLs were posted incorrectly, and to post corrected URLs. 3 to post about links they found from the URLs that are relevant to this list which makes light bulbs relevant to this list. 33 to concatenate all posts to date, then quote them including all headers and footers, and then add "Me Too." this list which makes light bulbs relevant to this list. 33 to concatenate all posts to date, then quote them including all headers and footers, and then add "Me Too." 12 to post to the list that they are unsubscribing because they cannot handle the light bulb controversey. 19 to quote the "Me Too's" to say, "Me Three." 4 to suggest that posters request the light bulb FAQ. 1 to propose new alt.change.lite.bulb newsgroup. 47 to say this is just what alt.physic.cold_fusion was meant for, leave it here. 143 votes for alt.lite.bulb. Sorry if this cut in on someones posting about brew dogs. Eric Fouch Efouch at steelcase.com Bent Dick YactoBrewery Kentwood, MI Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 10:32:06 +1200 From: Bruce Baker <Bruce.E.Baker at tsy.treasury.govt.nz> Subject: Mash Schedules G'day y'all, Does anybody feel up to writing a short dissertation on mash schedules? What I'm after is: 1. What are all the possible rests one might use in beer making (arranged in order of temperature). 2. What are the benefits of each? 3. What are the implications of undershooting or overshooting on temperature? 4. What are the implications of undershooting or overshooting on time? 5. What is the importance of mash-out? Thanks in advance, Bruce Wellington, New Zealand Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 18:30:23 -0500 (CDT) From: korz at xnet.com Subject: pH/Oak casks/140F rest Dave writes: >>1. You don't. You are extracting some tannins throughout the sparge. >>At the beginning of the sparge, your mash still has some buffering >>Ability and the pH is hopefully above 5.5. > >I'm sure you mean BELOW Ph 5.5. Duh! Yes, absolutely. >On the subject of wooden casks and beer, there is apparently a HUGE >misunderstanding about how wood casks were employed. The beer did not >INTENTIONALLY touch the wood. The barrels were lined with pitch and later >with synthetic coatings and even occasionally rubber liners until plastic >came along according to De Clerk. All were abandoned in favor of stainless >steel. Even though it was substantially more expensive, it gave a more >stable and predictable product. I disagree. I could barely contain myself as our guide explained what was done in the cooper's room at the Tadcaster Brewery (Samuel Smith's). I could not wait to ask if the casks were lined or unlined. The answer is: they are unlined. As far as I know, all brewers in the UK that currently distribute beer in oak casks (there are only a handful) do so in *unlined* casks. >>Wooden casks can lend flavors unobtainable in glass or stainless, but they >>Are a bunch of work.. > > I'll agree, but they aren't necessarily flavors we would like in our beer. Untrue as you have noted in your followup post. The old Ballentine's IPA, Rodenbach and Rodenbach Grand Cru, and Petrus are four beers that definitely have an intentional oaky flavour/aroma. >Maybe it was the pitch coating on the inside of the cask no longer lending >that superior flavor to the Ballantines! Maybe it was nostalgia. No, they were unlined, American Oak casks and it didn't take long for the oakiness to be imparted. Note that European Oak (and well-used European oak at that: would you send your new casks to India or your beat-up ones?) casks were used to send IPA to India. European oak imparts far less oakiness than American oak. The makers of Ballentine's were trying to be authentic but they accidentally created a new style. *** Nick writes: >Does anyone use a 140F rest when brewing ales to break the big proteins >into medium-sized proteins, to improve mouthfeel and reduce cold break >volume? > >If so, how long of a rest is sufficient, before raising the mash >temperature to the upper 150s? Yes, I do... I rest for 15 to 30 minutes at 135-140F when I use malts that create a lot of hot and cold break (like DWC Pale Ale and Pils). *** Dave writes: >This is exactly what is wanted in these products and also in the Belgian >Red Ales, like Rodenbach as Dave Hinkle points out. Michael Jackson in his >Beer Companion points out that these red ales are aged in "unlined" casks, >thereby implying that other beers are aged or at least stored in "lined" >casks, such as De Clerk points out. Lining of casks was therefore used for >beers that one didn't want to get sour from contamination in the wood of >the cask. You are making a very big assumption that all other casks are lined. The fact is that they are not. >It is potentially conceivable that in the Olde days, unlined casks for >short term British beers that were fermented in say 5 days, kegged and sent >to the pub could have been drunk in a few days and would have been OK. >This would have required the beer to have been highly hopped, high in >alcohol content and kept cool. All possible, if beer deliveries were local. > However, even if the casks were new, a short stay like this would hardly >have time for the beer to pick up oakiness. The major number of casks were >not new. I've had Samuel Smith's "from the wood" at Ye Olde Cheshire Cheese in London and there was a slight woody character (mahogany (sp?) I wrote in my notes) in *one* of the beers. Note that I also tasted that same character in the same beer from a bottle in the US (beer which had never seen wood) so that suggests that the woodiness was *not* from the wood cask. Oh... just wanted to point out that London is pretty far from Tadcaster and that the beer tasted the same in both London and Tadcaster. > .As I commented above, I also thought of the old Porter/Stale beer which >was likely stored in un-lined casks so it would stale quicker. Also as you >may know Breweries tended to use larger and larger casks and this would >minimize the surface volume ratio and perhaps prolong the life of the beers >in the absence of sanitation. I believe that the larger and larger tuns were simply to have bragging rights (and perhaps for advertising reasons). >My point in this whole discussion is that is unlikely you will get much >from your effort even if you were to go to get and use wooden casks. Of >course, there is nothing to prevent you from using sterilized oak chips ( >boil for 20 minutes in water and use the water as well as the chips, or >pressure cook for 10 minutes at 15 lbs - preferred) to give your beer an >oakey taste. Start at around 4 ounces/5 gallons for a subtle taste in one >of your big hoppy nosed IPA's. My point is that you don't want an oak flavour in your IPA. The wood was European oak and the casks were old and well-used. The only beer style you would want an oaky character is in a Flanders Red Ale (like Rodenbach or Petrus). Also, 4 ounces of American oak chips in 5 gallons of beer is going to give you a *lot* of oak flavour. As for trying to use an American oak cask for your Red Ale, the oakiness subsides after each batch you use the cask for, but I suggest no more than a week on the first batch. I went two weeks and despite the fact that I had filled the cask with water and soaked it for nearly 6 months, changing the water eight or ten times, the beer was way overdone. If you still don't believe me that American oak is different from European, compare my "two weeks were too much" with the fact that Rodenbach Grand Cru is kept in their oak tuns for up to two years and they disassemble their tuns after every one or two batches (I don't recall) and scrape a fine layer of wood off to expose fresh wood. Finally, the purpose of using oak casks for making purecultureLambic (pLambic) is not so much for the flavour (both J-P Van Roy and Henri Vandervelden (sp?) were quite clear that you don't want any oakiness picked up from the wood... Henri uses only chestnut casks at Oud Beersel and only half the casks at Cantillon are oak!) but that it appears that some of the microbiota in Lambic prefer a *small* amount of oxygen during fermentation. On the Lambic Digest it has been suggested that pLambics fermented in wood and plastic were generally superior to those fermented in glass (but this is from a very small sample and purely speculation at this point). Al. Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL korz at xnet.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 17:29:17 -0600 From: mcatee at cadvision.com (Chris McAtee) Subject: LACTIC ACID SOLUTION I'm getting tired of e-mailing this to everyone. LACTIC ACID SOLUTION I use Miller's technique of mixing 2 tsp 88% lactic acid to 3 cups water (Complete Handbook of Homebrewing,1st ed. p. 73). Then I add this solution to my sparge water. I generally need 1.25 -1.50 cups/27 litres of solution to lower the pH from 8 to about 5.7. Mix it into all your sparge, mash out, and hop sparge water at once if possible. Don't mix up too much solution at once as it doesn't keep (snowflakes ppt). If you do so, throw it in the fridge. It'll keep 3 weeks - maybe longer. Some guys use an eyedropper or small ear/eye drop dispenser but I feel the "solution" is easier. I also put 5 drops of 88% lactic acid (full strength) in my airlocks. Chris Calgary, Alberta Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 20:42:13 -0400 From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: NJ brewer,CP bottle filler, mini-kegs,bleach Brewsters: Michael Aesop has a friend in NJ that wants to become a home brewer in the area of Parsippany or Picatinny Arsenal??? Have your friend contact me and I will give him/her the details, since I live I northern NJ close to Picatinny and Parsippany. - ------------------------------------------------------------------- Rob Kienle wants a recommendation for the best/easiest to use Counter Pressure filler Contact Braukunst 800(?) theirs was selected by Zymurgy or BT a few moths ago as the best and easiest to use, I believe. They have one which is relatively easy to clean and has a small amount of metal to cool. The exhaust port is an adjustable spring loaded ball valve. I made a very minor modification which allows me to reach the bottom of short and tall bottles just by sliding the stopper up and down on a ( 3/4 inch?) longer piece of tubing than supplied. After I finished modifying it, I realized I could have simply put a short piece of plastic tubing on the beer tube and I could have reached the bottom of all bottles. Such is the life of the A/R brewer. (besides yet another trip to Home Depot to build my Own!)? Don't bother it will cost as much or more if you make it from brass, will be bigger and have a lot more places to clean ( or infect your beer). Been there, done that. It does make a nice bar ornament though. - --------------------------------------------- Sorry, I lost the inquirer's name: Questions are 1.) has anybody tried the mini keg sytems? , and are they a Good investment? They are if you don't have a spare refrigerator or place to put a spare refrigerator and you want beer on tap instead of the bottle. They do give an excellent head to beer because they have a very fine needle control valve but decarbonate the beer in the process. Be sure you buy the geman brand which is mostly stainless steel. I have heard from my HB guy that the all plastic ones stink and he had to return them because they were not reliable. Others have given me the same story. You can recycle the plastic and rubber fittings by using a pair of needle nosed pliers to pull the rubber stopper out of the keg after you finish the beer. They can't take too much carbonation sugar as you will get bulging of the ends and crinkling of the metal. Stay around 4 ounces of sugar or below per 5 gallons of beer. Don't plan on carbonating with those little cartridges. I don't know of a fitting which will allow you to carbonate with a CO2 cylinder. Anybody? The cans can't be moved too much since they are naturally carbonated - sorta like the bottles. My preference would be a cornie keg system for a little more money. You can force carbonate or naturally carbonate as you wish. You can adjust the carbonation level as you wish during the life of the beer With the appropriate attachments you can filter and counterpresssure fill bottles. Some 3 gallon kegs are making their way into the used market now so this may be a solution for all. Just a thought, you can even fill the above minikegs with carbonated beer and have beer on tap in your regular fridge. In the absence of a separate dedicated beer fridge, to fill them, you would have to cool the cornie, perhaps with ice for several hours, but it might work. 2.) I am using bleach to sanitize....Okay or not. Generally a good idea, just don't soak any stainless steel pressure vessels ( like a cornie) in a bleach solution for a long time as you will get corrosion and cracks which can cause the cornie to leak or rupture. There are sanitizers which are not chloride containing and are recommended for S.S. For most plastic and glass containers I use a small amount of bleach full strength ( the caustic helps lift organic compounds) , coat the insides by rotation and then dilute it, then rinse with boiling water three times. ALWAYS wear glasses and gloves when you are handling bleach. No beer is worth an eye. I also have a plastic apron ( with the Welsh language on it) which I use to keep harmony with the chief clothes washer in the house. 3.) What kind of beer or recipe can I make for guests and friends that Do not share a passion for good beers....you all know the ones- That beer is Too dark, or that is too bitter, do you have coors light(egad). Buy them Coors Light. Or better, suggest to them to buy it themselves and bring it to the party. Alternatively, they might like a Kolsch style of a blonde ale. Not too bitter, not too dark, juuust right. - --------------------------------------- Keep on brewin' Dave Burley Kinnelon, NJ 07405 103164.3202 at compuserve.com Dave_Burley at compuserve.com Voice e-mail OK 201-492-1371 fone and fax Return to table of contents