---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@ brew.oeonline.com
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Princeton's PALE ALES ("Pat Babcock")
  Pseudo-decoction and real decoction (Tuula Pietila)
  Easy removal of boil over "stains" (Scott Dornseif)
  Lemon Beer (James Moncsko)
  Re: $.02 on minikegs (Alex Santic)
  Re: Marris-Otter Problems (Again) (Alex Santic)
  On the oak thread. ("Graham Wheeler")
  Agar, steeping grains ("Graham Wheeler")
  Elderberries!!!!!!!! (Aesoph, Michael)
  Autolysis and O2? (DAVE BRADLEY IC742 6-7932)
  Corny kegs & cleaning ("Moyer, Douglas E")
  Extraction Points and %s ("Barry Wertheimer")
  New Brew Club (Dan Wieleba)
  Re: Yeast Culturing Media Recipe? (Craig Wynn)
  Oats (THaby)
  Fat Tire Amber Ale Recipe? (VJ Mitchell)
  Keg insulation (Mike Spinelli)
  re: slotted manifold / yeast media recipe (Dave Whitman)
  Shelf-Life of Kegged Beer/CO2 Tank in Fridge (Greg_T._Smith)
  Homebrew's quick effect? (Eugene Sonn)
  Cleaning 1/2 Barrel Keg used as a Fermenter (smith57)
  New mash/lauter tun (Loren Crow)
  RE:  Decoction mashing (George De Piro)
  Flat Beer ("Ellery.Samuels")
  The last experiment - double decocted PORTER! (Charles Burns)
  Yeast Culturing (Nymwegen)
  SNPA attempt (John Wilkinson)
  re: beer taxes ("Ted Hull")
  San Diego Beer/Corny Keg Manufacturers ("R. Shreve")
  Wyeast 1056 in barleywines (Dean Larson)
  Lagering Temperatures ("Kelly C. Heflin")
  Info on Coopers Sparkling Ale brewing process (Marshall Muller)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 22:58:32 +500
From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock at oeonline.com>
Subject: Princeton's PALE ALES

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to you lager...

I came. I saw. I left (and was mistaken for the owner of one of 
the Home Breweries)....

Just a quick note to those members of the Princeton And Local 
Environs Ale and Lager Enjoyment Society who read the HBD: I sat in on
your meeting tonight featuring Ron Hartman of LD Carlson. I am
intrigued by the guest speakers you manage to attract, and feel that
would be a good point of discussion here on the HBD, if there are any
of you "in the know" who would like to discuss it with other clubs.

All in all, an interesting experience. Having only attended meetings
of F.O.R.D. and the AABG, it was kind of neat to see a slice of life
elsewhere.

And, for others in the vicinity of Princeton, the Triumph Brewing
Company on Nassau Street is a must see, and their lovely, hoppy amber
ale is a must try!

(Don't worry, Rich: I'm still a F.O.R.D. man.)

See ya!
Pat Babcock
pbabcock at oeonline.com
BrewBeerd at aol.com
And one o' dem digest janitors...
See ya!
Pat Babcock
pbabcock at oeonline.com

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Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 00:25:54 +0300 (EET DST)
From: Tuula Pietila <tupietil at cc.helsinki.fi>
Subject: Pseudo-decoction and real decoction

=20
=20
Charlie Scandrett described his pseudo-decoction method in HBD #2399. His
method is quite similar to what I have tried a couple of times. What I did
is true decoction in the sense that 100% of the grist is boiled. I started
experimenting with this method after George De Piro (and somebody else -
sorry I forgot your name) asked if anybody knew a way to get the yummy
decoction taste without the decoction hassle aka pitching-at-sunrise-
syndrome. This was sometime last summer. Sorry for the delay - hard disc
crashed, other computer problems, I moved....

I came up with a method very similar to the one Charlie described. The
basic difference was that I presumed you have to boil the grains to get the
yummy taste and improved gelatinization. So I did. I mashed pilsner malt
in a kettle on the stove using a 60-70-100-70 schedule:

1. Beta-amylase rest 60 C 30 mins
2. Extraction of thin mash (liquid) into another container, I extracted
about 20-30% of the liquid. Use cup or siphon off the liquid on top of
the grains.
3. Main mash alpha-amylase rest 70 C 15 mins
4. Main mash boil 30 mins
5. Cooling of main mash to 70 C in sink filled with cold water. Took about
5-10 mins. You can use an immersion chiller and use the spent water as
sparge water.
6. Combine mashes and set temperature to 70 C for 20 mins.=20
7. Mashout, sparging etc. as normal

Remember this was just a test to see if the method works, the times and
temps and other figures are probably not ideal. The grist was 100% pilsner
malt, so you might want to lengthen the saccharification rests if using
malt lower in enzymes. I have tried this only two times, primarily because
I=EFm an unemployed destitute lazy slob who can=EFt afford an extra fridge
and therefore brew ales. This experiment was fermented with Wyeast 1338.
Due to lack of experience in tasting and having nothing to compare this
beer with I cannot comment on how yummy the results were compared with
traditional decoction. I can say that the beer tasted as good as my other
ones and was very clear.
=20
If you decide to try this method, or Charlie=EFs, you can find an
informative set of graphs describing the "Survival of a-amylase and
b-amylase in thin mashes held at the constant temperatures shown" in
Brewing by Michael J. Lewis and Tom W. Young on page 111. It will help in
planning your mash schedule. The figure shows that a-amylase activity does
not decline at 60 C and below. If you decide to keep the extracted thin
mash at a higher temp during the heating to boiling, boiling and cooling
phases of the main mash, you will lose a-amylase activity. According to
the figure, if the temp is kept at 66 C, you will have roughly 70%
a-amylase activity remaining after 30 mins and 40% after 60 mins. This
would make the combining of this method with George Fix=EFs 40-60-70 or
55-60-70 mash schedules very appropriate: at the end of the 60 rest you=20
extract the thin mash and you will be able to save most of the a-amylase
in it for later use. Also remember that you need only enough a-amylase to
take care of the starch gelatinized in the boil (starch haze), which is
not much if you are not using raw adjuncts. I do not think that I need to
ramble on about controlling the fermentability of the wort...=20

Also remember that the thicker the main mash, the faster it is to heat it
to boiling and to cool it because grain needs less energy to heat than
water (sorry, I could be more specific but I don=EFt know the tech terms in
English).  My main mash started boiling in 5-10 mins, compared with the
45-60 mins it takes for the wort to start boiling.

Almost all of the advantages of Charlie=EFs method apply to this method:
time and manual labor saved compared with triple decoction, Maillard
products and other flavor additions usually achieved in normal decoction
mashing and improved gelatinization of starch, especially when using
under-modified malt or raw adjuncts. I know it is hard to get so
under-modified malt from commercial maltsters these days that decoction
mashing is needed to get an acceptable yield, but some have tried to malt
their own grains. This method of decoction might also facilitate the use
of this lower quality malt. This method has better control over the
process than traditional decoction methods, which suffer from overlong
rests of the main mash when it is waiting for the decoction to finish
boiling. This is a problem especially in triple decoction. You also
get less HSA and burnt skin, which are problems associated with
transfering and mixing boiling parts of the mash.  Because you boil the
whole mash excluding 10-30% of the thin mash, you can try cutting the wort
boil time down to 60 mins.=20

Charlie mentioned the advantage of a hotter and more permeable grain bed
in lautering. With this method, as with normal decoction, the mixing and
boiling of the grains makes the bed less permeable and might result in
sparging problems. The gooey hot break in the bed does not help either.  I
had a shallow grain bed and thus no problems.

So what it boils down to: Is it necessary to boil the grains to get the
decoction taste? I thought you get a Scottish ale type caramel taste with
a high gravity or overlong wort boil and a toasted, decoction like taste
by boiling the grains. Does the boil extract polyphenols from the grains?
And if so, are they bad or do they contribute to the yummy decoction
taste? Is there such a thing as yummy harsh decoction taste? If they are
bad, can their detrimental effects be taken care of with Polyclar? I use
Polyclar to get rid of chill haze and in this batch the sediment seem to
be browner than  in my infusion-mashed beers. Was the color the result of a=
=20
lot of polyphenols (especially oxidized ones)? If so, wouldn=EFt it
be a smart idea to mix Polyclar in the lauter: the grain bed would filter
out the polyphenols and Polyclar or you could use a Polyback after the
lauter... And if you use the no-sparge method, you can mashout at 100 C
for improved run-off and there won=EFt be starch haze because you have
boiled all the grains...=20
=20

Timo Jukka in Helsinki, Finland




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Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 17:28:40 -0500
From: Scott Dornseif <roundboy at wwa.com>
Subject: Easy removal of boil over "stains"

Tired of the Drudgery of scrubbing on those boil over buildups that just
WONT come off?  NEVERMORE! for an easy answer send me 3 screaming meemies
and a SASE.

Or just read on.
I covered the dry burned on crud with common 3% Hydrogen peroxide soln,
after soaking for about an hour, I wiped all of the H2O2 off, leaving only
the soln that soaked into the crud. Then I poured straight household
bleach, fully covering the affected area, (sounds like a rash).  Within 20
mins the crud was almost completely gone.  COOL.

Scott Dornseif
roundboy at wwa.com



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Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 23:09:26 -0700
From: James Moncsko <jimsbrew at bellsouth.net>
Subject: Lemon Beer

Has anyone ever made a lemon beer, sorta in the lines of Petes Summer 
Brew? Would it be possible to add 'real lemon' lemon juice going into the 
secondary? How much? Maybe at bottling? Anybody? Thanks in advance,

Jim

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Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 02:44:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: Alex Santic <alex at salley.com>
Subject: Re: $.02 on minikegs

I would like to make the point that minikegs do work exactly as
advertised. I'm not sure why people overemphasize the problems. 

You do need good minikegs, bungs and CO2 tap. I personally have experience
with the German Fass-Frisch brand which I recommend for all three. 

Priming should be conservative. The beer should be completely fermented
out so that you have full control over the process. Many brews have
undetected fermentation problems and will over-carbonate more noticeably
in kegs than in bottles as the remaining complex sugars are fermented.
Full kegging systems facilitate filtering and artificial carbonation while
minikegs do not. 

If you have ever watched the results of tapping a new keg at a bar, you'll
realize that pouring a glass of foam is not an unusual symptom with any
keg dispensing system. In a naturally-conditioned beer, this first glass
of foam probably contains yeast sediment anyway. However, it is important
to always open the tap flat-out unless you want to continue pouring
glasses of foam. And don't apply CO2 pressure until the initial keg
pressure is released. 

On the down side, minikegs are fragile and kind of a pain to clean. Less
so than bottles, but more so than full kegging systems. The CO2 cartridges
are indeed somewhat expensive. However, contrary to what has been
suggested, they are easy to acquire. The most likely place is the vedor
who sold you the minikegs. 

Alex Santic
NYC

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Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 02:58:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: Alex Santic <alex at salley.com>
Subject: Re: Marris-Otter Problems (Again)

"Michael Dowd" <mikedowd at geocities.com> asks:
>Does anyone else out there have any experience with using an EasyMasher
>and Marris-Otter malt? 

I can't explain why your friend had a stuck sparge, but I can confirm 
that I use Beeston Marris-Otter with an EasyMasher and have not 
experienced this problem.

Alex Santic
NYC

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Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 11:45:17 +0100
From: "Graham Wheeler" <Graham.Wheeler at btinternet.com>
Subject: On the oak thread.


It was said in an earlier digest that Michael Jackson stated that only
English oak was good enough for casks. I am afraid that I must, belatedly,
disagree with my countryman here. From at least the early 1700s onwards,
English oak was rarely if ever used for casks. All English oak was
protected and belonged to the Royal Navy for building ships (still is I
think!). Certainly it was illegal for English oak to be exported in any
form, so all British export beer would have been supplied in foreign
(usually Baltic) oak. The early Burton brewers of the 1700s, before the
pale ale revolution of the 1830s, were purely export brewers -- it was hard
to get Burton beer in Britain. These Burton brewers bartered beer with
Russia and other Baltic ports for commodities that could be sold in Britain
for a profit. These incoming shipments seemed in the main to be Baltic oak
and pig-iron, which was sold to other breweries. Presumably the pig-iron
made the cask hoops.

There is an interesting account of cask making at the Bass brewery in
Alfred Barnard's "Noted Breweries of Great Britain and Ireland", (1887). It
is far to long to reproduce here, but a few edited highlights might be of
interest.

"The staves as they are received from the Baltic and elsewhere [note the
elsewhere] are stacked at Shobnall in large piles which cover as many as
twenty-five acres of ground. They are protected from the sun's rays by
matting, and, when required for use, are sent in railway trucks to the
steam cooperage..." 

"...are four iron-roofed sheds where staves are stored, after being sawn to
the required lengths, to be seasoned..."

"... Our guide first led the way to the steeping tanks, which are
constructed of brick and sunk into the ground. There are nine of them of
immense size, and the water therein is heated by exhaust steam from the
engine. Here the staves for making the casks are steeped for a considerable
time [shame he wasn't more specific] to extract the tannin, which, if
allowed to remain, would injure the ale. When the staves are sufficiently
steeped they are sent in trucks to the Shobnall stores and stacked for
drying; after a year or more, as the case may be, they are sufficiently
seasoned, and are then returned to the steam cooperage..."

"...The porus pegs are made of red American oak and the hard pegs made of
Memel.

The casks are then run-in by steaming them and then filling them with water
at 190 degrees and leaving for several hours. I thought I had read
somewhere that the Bass casks were charred on the inside by a gas flame,
but I can't find that in Barnard's book, so perhaps I read it elsewhere or
I may be mistaken.

Anyway, it would seem that the type of oak used for casks is not
particularly important, as long as it is a hard oak (American red oak would
presumably leak like a false bottom), but cask making for beer is a long
and involved process, which I doubt if modern casks that are generally
available would be subjected to.

Graham Wheeler
High Wycombe 
England

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Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 13:17:04 +0100
From: "Graham Wheeler" <Graham.Wheeler at btinternet.com>
Subject: Agar, steeping grains

In reply to George Schamel

Yes you certainly do need some malt extract in your culture medium for it
to work, but if Brewer's Resource call their product wort agar, then the
wort, or the malt extract, should already have been in it! I bet you a pint
they forgot to put it in. Pure microbiologists' agar on its own contains no
nutrients, and certainly contains no carbon source. An appropriate carbon
source has to be added by someone somewhere. Microbiologists like this
state of affairs because it enables them to produce selective media, which
helps to identify different organisms.

The amount of extract required is fairly small. 20 grams per litre of water
is more than enough, but I am usually more generous than that. Don't use
yeast nutrients, they are not necessary and could cause more problems than
they solve. 

For streaking petri-dishes, a cheap and perfectly adequate alternative to
agar from scientific supply houses is the vegetarian alternative to
gelatine sold in health food shops. In England the stuff is called
Gelozone, and is made from carrageen (Irish moss), locust bean gum,
maltodextrin, and guar gum. It is not nutrient free, so it would be
unsuitable for selective media, and its melting point may be too high for
slants, but it's great stuff for streaking petri-dishes. Add malt extract
to it, just as you would with agar. The equivalent stuff available in the
USA may not perform as well for this application as the Gelozone available
here, so an experimental type of person might have to try it first and post
the results. I like it because it sets quickly, has a high melting point
once set, and is a bloody sight easier to get hold of locally than agar.

- -------------------------------

In reply to Jim Wallace

If you are doing a full mash, there is no need to do a separate steep of
your other grains. Just bung it all into your grist, well mixed, and mash
the lot together. Steeping evolved by homebrewers to deal with malt extract
brews, where there is no mash.

Graham Wheeler
High Wycombe
England



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Date: 28 Apr 97 09:01:04 EDT
From: aesoph at ncemt1.ctc.com (Aesoph, Michael)
Subject: Elderberries!!!!!!!!

Dear All:



	I currently live in Western PA and only have access to Elderberries once 
a year at best and they are very hard to come by.  I currently have two 
idle fermenters and I would like to fill at least one of them with some 
Elderberry wine.  I was wondering if Elderberries were in season 
somewhere in the country and if I could buy 10 pounds or so through 
someone out there.  Please respond via direct EMail (aesoph at ctc.com) as 
my access to this list is somewhat limited.



==================================================

        Michael D. Aesoph                Associate Engineer

==================================================


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Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 12:55:52 +0000 (GMT)
From: DAVE BRADLEY IC742 6-7932 <BRADLEY_DAVID_A at LILLY.COM>
Subject: Autolysis and O2?


I want to relay an observation I've had in my brewing,
and to ask for any yeast metabolism explanations the
Collective might have.

Background: I ferment in a conical vessel, ca. 12gal per batch.
After 3 days I skim the krausen, drain any residual cold break
from the btm valve.  After 2 weeks, I usually harvest the yeast
cake via the btm valve...sometimes its several more weeks before
this happens.

I can clearly taste and smell autolysis when collecting my yeasts.
This is with Wyeast London Ale and Thames Valley and with Yeast Labs
Alt strain, encompassing 6-8 batches of beer.  The severity of the
taste and smell increase over time but are clearly present beginning
at 2-4 weeks from pitching.  FYI the modest taste in the beer does
fade over 1-2mo but that can be a long time when you want to
find out how your batch really came out!

Why?  Is this a physical result of the layers of yeast in the cone
being deprived of soluble lipids from the beer?  O2 is available in
my open fermenter, perhaps just not to the compacted yeast.
What do you think, you metabolism gurus?

Dave in Indy
Home of the 3-B Brewery, v. Ltd.


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Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 9:28:36 -0400
From: "Moyer, Douglas E" <moyer-de at salem.ge.com>
Subject: Corny kegs & cleaning

Collective soul,
	(As a pre-question apology, I did try to search through the archives, 
but perhaps my searching abilities leave something to be desired...)
	I recently completed converting an 8 cu. ft. chest freezer to a beer 
cooler. I replaced the thermostat with one from an old fridge, with a 
remarkable range. I drilled holes in the side to pass through the beer 
lines and the gas line. I fixed the hot side refrigerant line that I 
nicked. (Hard lesson learned there!) My beer lines each go from a quick 
disconnect on the keg to a shank through the wall via about 3' of 3/16" 
flexible hose. On the outside of the fridge, I run about 20" of 3/16" 
hose from the shank to the picnic tap. (It will have a three tap beer 
tower in the final design.) The shank has the same inside diameter as 
those beer faucets you mount on the door of an upright fridge.
	Two weeks ago, I force-carbonated a corny keg of nut brown ale (very 
tasty!), and connected it to my new system. When I poured my first (and 
subsequent) glasses of beer, it was about 80% foam, which of course meant 
that the beer felt somewhat flat to the mouth. (All the C02 released in 
the lines.) I also noticed that, when I poured several glasses at a time, 
the latter ones had less of a problem. I poured the final pint on 
Saturday, and had to hold the tap away from the glass just to get a head 
on the beer. The bubbles seemed to start forming a few inches after the 
quick disconnect. I tried each of my three beer lines with similar 
results. I dispensed at about 8 psi.
	My question then is whence came all this foam? There seem to be several 
possibilities: over-carbonated; beer-lines too long; transition from 
flexible hose to the shank and back is too severe; and a rough surface in 
my dip tube or hose. If I've over carbonated, then why would it get 
better for multiple glasses poured at a time? (Same question for dirty 
lines.) If it is the transition going through the shank, what can I do? 
If it is dirty lines, how can I best clean them? (I currently run a 
solution of warm water and One-Step cleanser through the lines, let it 
set for a few days, and then run it dry.)
	Also, how do you know that you've correctly force-carbonated the beer? I 
bumped the pressure to 35 psi, disconnected the gas line, shook the keg 
until I couldn't hear the beer sloshing, reconnected the gas line, and 
let it sit at that pressure for several hours, with an occasional 
re-shake.
	Help!!

Doug Moyer
Big Lick Homebrewing Collective
"Everyone needs a Big Lick!"


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Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 10:09:35 EST
From: "Barry Wertheimer" <wertheim at LIBRA.LAW.UTK.EDU>
Subject: Extraction Points and %s

Ray Estrella wrote:

[snipped useful info about extraction, etc.]

> Different mashing techniques will give
> different numbers also. I brewed last week with some friends, and we used
> a Sabco with a false bottom for 18 gal. of Pils, and got a 92% extraction
> rate. Then used a cooler mash/lauter tun for 20 gal. of Belgian Wit and
> only got 75%.

The implication here is that the different mash/lauter tun systems 
led to the different results in efficiency.   That is a possible 
explanation.  It is also possible that the different grain bills 
contributed to the different result.  The lowest extraction 
efficiency I have experienced in my system was brewing a Begian Wit 
with a large % of unmalted wheat.

Barry

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Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 10:13:50 -0700
From: Dan Wieleba <wieleba at pce.net>
Subject: New Brew Club

We are starting a  new brew club in the western New York area.  Anyone
interested should contact Dan - wieleba at pce.net or Terry -
terry at brewfellows.com.  
- -- 
http://www.pce.net/wieleba/beerlink.htm

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Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 13:26:23 GMT
From: cwynn at sawyer.ndak.net (Craig Wynn)
Subject: Re: Yeast Culturing Media Recipe?

quote
pg 4.5 "First Steps In Yeast Culture"
The ratio of agar to wort
The first step consists in mixing the agar with water in the right
proportion suitable for yeast and general microbiological work. A
ratio of 12 grams of agar in one leter of liquid will generally give
excellent results. This will produce one leter of solidified liquid
when set. Prcision in weighing is very important. A good quality
precision scale is a necessity. Adjustments may be required, depending
on the source of the argar. Of course even a one liter bottle of solid
media is too much for any but a large laboratory.

later in this section....
Once you have weighed the agar, the next step is to measure the
quanitity of liquid. There are two ways to do this. If you have a
graduated cyclinder or a any greducated measuring vessel, you can
measure the volume directly.......

When weighing , wort variations caused by different specific gravity
wil have to be considered. However , wort at 12=B0P 1.048 SG can be
assumbed toweigh 100 grams per 100 ml.  Exact precision is
recommended, but in this case is not an absolute necessity.

end quote.
I recommend this book by Pierre Rajotte. It gave me the confidence to
pick up the basic skills for culturing my own yeast.=20

craig

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Date: Mon, 28 Apr 97 9:24:17 CDT
From: THaby at swri.edu
Subject: Oats

Hello Brewers,
 I'm getting ready to brew an oatmeal stout and some recipies call for 
"rolled" oats and some call for "steel cut" oats. Whats the difference
between the two, and can they be interchanged and produce the same results?
 
Tim Haby
Rio Medina, TX
N5YEB
 
thaby at swri.edu

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Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 07:48:05 -0700
From: VJ Mitchell <VJMitchell at asu.edu>
Subject: Fat Tire Amber Ale Recipe?

Hello all,
	
	Has anyone developed, or even seen, a recipe ( all-grain, partial-mash,
or extract) for this fine rocky mountain brew?  For that matter any good
amber recipe would be greatly appriciated!  Thanks!!  Personal E-mail
would be great, I don't know how many of you all would be interested.


Vince Mitchell
VJMitchell at asu.edu

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Date: Mon, 28 Apr 97 10:45:09 est
From: paa3983 at dpsc.dla.mil (Mike Spinelli)
Subject: Keg insulation

HBDers,

Someone asked how best to insulate a keg for mashing, etc.

My rig seems about as bulletproof as you can get, and IMO eliminates the
usefullness of any GOTT type plastic cooler for mashing.

First go to a Heating, Air Conditioning supply store and ask for 16" OD rigid
stove pipe.  It comes in a 3 ft. length and costs about 11 bucks.  It's got a
slot up the side that snaps together.  It's made of sheet metal (might be
galvanized, not sure though).  This will act as a sleeve that you can slip on
and off the keg.  You'll need to make a vertical slot at the bottom
to accomadate the ball valve and allow the sleeve to go all the way to the botto
m of the keg.

Next call an industrial insulation company and get 2" thick rigid fiberglass ins
ulation that's 16" Inside diameter.  Costs about 35 bucks.   It comes in a 3 ft.
length also.  This stuff is rated at around 800 degress F.  The inside is raw
fiberglass and the outside is aluminum faced.  This fiberglass slips over the
metal sleeve and permanently secured with aluminum duct tape along the top and
bottom of the sleeve.  

When all is said and done, you'll have a solid metal sleeve that slips off and
on the keg,  with the fiberglass on the outside of the sleeve.  Forget the
bubble wrap and forget the Gotts.  This  thing will last a lifetime.

I'm now making one up to slip over my 60 gallon tank (24" OD) not for mashing
purposes but to extend the sleeve a foot below the double burners when I'm
boiling to get better heat efficiency.  This should act as a jacket to trap the
heat.

Having mashed in 5 and 10 gallon Gotts and now 15.5 gallon kegs, the keg seems
like the only way to go.  With the sleeve, I would bet that it's as insulated as
a Gott if not more so, and you have the ability to mash over 40 pounds of grain.
 All you need is a perf. plate, J tube and ball valve. As far as a lid, I found
that ironically, the 10 gal. Gott lid fits perfectly inside the top of the
sleeve.  


Mike Spinelli
Cherry Hill NJ
Home of Mikey's Monster Brew
  


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Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 11:56:53
From: Dave Whitman <dwhitman at rohmhaas.com>
Subject: re: slotted manifold / yeast media recipe

In HBD#2406, Laura <Barrowman at aol.com> asks whether to put the slots facing
up or down on a slotted manifold.

My opinion: put'em on the bottom.  That way you can transfer the maximum
amount of liquid before the siphon breaks.  The gap between the bottom of
the tun and the manifold is on average at least as wide as the slot gaps,
so it's not like putting them on the bottom would make it hard to draw
liquid off.

In the same issue, George Schamel asks about culture media for yeast.

I don't know the make up of the two commercial media you're using but
here's a recipe that works very well for me.  Use enough water to make up
the volume of media you want, then based on the weight of the water, add:

10%     dry malt extract
 2%     agar (cheap food grade from a chinese grocery store)
 0.25%  diammonium phosphate ("yeast energizer" from brew shop)
 0.25%  yeast extract ("Marmite" toast spread from English specialty shop)
 
Thus a 20 ml batch of media would use 20 ml water (= 20 grams), 2 g DME,
0.4 g agar, 0.05 g each of DAP and Marmite.  For starters, just leave out
the agar.

You could probably get by without the DAP and Marmite, but my starters seem
much more vigorous since I started adding them to my recipe, and I figure
what's good for the starter is probably good for slants and plates.
- ---
Dave Whitman          "The opinions expressed are those of the author, and not
dwhitman at rohmhaas.com  Rohm and Haas Co."


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Date: Mon, 28 Apr 97 11:10:33 EDT
From: Greg_T._Smith at notes.pw.com
Subject: Shelf-Life of Kegged Beer/CO2 Tank in Fridge

Greetings all,

I have a few batches kegged in cornies, and I was wondering 
how long they will last (I know, only as long as it takes 
to drink them).  What is the shelf-life of a kegged batch of 
homebrew?  How about a batch that's already been tapped (and 
kept cold)?

Speaking of keeping things cold... is it okay to put your
CO2 tank in the fridge with the kegs, or do I have to tap a 
hole in the fridge to keep the CO2 out of the cold?

Replying here or private e-mail are both fine.


TIA,
Greg Smith
'BarnBrew Brewery'
Claryville, NY

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Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 12:10:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eugene Sonn <eugene at dreamscape.com>
Subject: Homebrew's quick effect?

Fellow HBDers,
	I've been brewing for over 5 years and one thing continues to
surprise me about homebrew  is how quickly you may feel its alcohol
affecting your system.  I've been drinking homebrew long enough that I
know this isn't just a coincidence with the times I haven't eaten a lot or
gotten a lot of sleep.  Homebrew does seem to affect my system more
quickly than commercial beer.  Are there any explanations for this?  Is
the alcohol in homebrew more easily metabolized than in commercial beer?  

Hoping you folk will have some answers.

Eugene
eugene at nova.dreamscape.com


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Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 09:57:11 -0700
From: smith57 at sprynet.com
Subject: Cleaning 1/2 Barrel Keg used as a Fermenter

Greetings HBDers,

I am looking for guidance on cleaning a 1/2 barrel Sankey 
Keg that will shortly finish serving as a primary fermenter. 
I will rack in the next few days.  I had planned on using 
washing soda (sodium carbonate) in warm water, fill it to 
the top, and let it sit overnight; then rinse with water and 
a weak acid solution.  Will this get out the organic 
deposits?  I obviously can't physically reach into 
the keg through the #11 size stopper hole so I have to count 
on the cleaning agent to do all the work. Any 
recommendations on how much washing soda to use in 
15 1/2 gallons of water?  Do you think it will get the job 
done, or should I step right up to something else like TSP 
or NaOH?

Incidently, I found the keg in good shape and still holding 
pressure and beer at the scrapyard.  After releasing the 
pressure and extracting the valve assembly, I dumped the 
beer out and rinsed it well.  It seemed to come pretty clean 
so I wasn't concerned with this beforehand. I sanitized it 
by boiling water in it before using as the primary.  The 
samples of the fermented wort smell and taste fine.

TIA for any advice.

 -Jack in West Point

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Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 12:12:45 -0500
From: crowld at rapidramp.com (Loren Crow)
Subject: New mash/lauter tun

Hello all,

Thanks to everyone who helped me with my question on HSA during
recirculation of the runnings. I decided to build a mash/lauter tun out of
a picnic cooler and some copper pipe. It worked like a charm, almost
doubling my efficiency from the false bottom approach I had been using.

It seems to me that perhaps the most important advantage of this system is
the fact that the grain bed is relatively thin, therefore reducing the
chance of compacting during the sparge. It also seems to clarify much
better and more quickly. Despite the fact that I had 11# of grain in
yesterday's mash, I got very little hot or cold break material (but with a
very syrupy wort) and an OG of 1.080 (including 1# of honey and 2# of brown
sugar)

I bought the cooler--an Igloo--at Wal-Mart for $19 (they're on sale this
week), got 10' of copper pipe and fittings (T-joints and elbows), soldering
compound, and vinyl tubing, and made the manifold. I used my Dremel tool
rather than a hacksaw for the slits because the Dremel tool makes thinner
slits. To the hole in the cooler I attached a pvc ball valve with a tube
running down into the boiler. It really was quite easy to build, and not
particularly expensive, either. And it was *much* easier to clean up than
the false bottom method.

Loren


==========================================================================
# Loren D. Crow, Ph.D.     ++ Office Phone:  (903) 927-3219              #
# Department of Religion   ++          Fax:  (903) 938-8100              #
# Wiley College            ++                                            #
# 711 Wiley Avenue         ++ Email: crowld at rapidramp.com                #
# Marshall, TX  75670      ++ WWW: http://www.rapidramp.com/Users/crowld #
==========================================================================

The unexamined life is not worth living.
                           - Socrates



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Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 13:41:54 -0700
From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com (George De Piro)
Subject: RE:  Decoction mashing

     Hi all,
     
     My mailer doesn't, so I haven't been able to receive the HBD 
     regularly.  If anybody out there has written me and not received a 
     reply, please understand that I am not ignoring you!
     
     Anyhow, Charles has been wondering the best place to park his main 
     mash while performing a decoction.  His experiment demonstrated that 
     significant starch conversion does occur at 130-135F (~56C).  He is 
     now planning on holding the main mash at 145F (62.7C), because he 
     believes this temp to be "pretty harmless."
     
     Actually, if you want a dextrin-rich beer, this temp will be far from 
     harmless.  At 130-135F, you got significant conversion in only one 
     hour.  At 145F, you'll get even faster beta-amylase activity.  You'll 
     convert most of the starch into fermentables in your main mash.  You 
     will not release all that much unconverted starch in the decoction 
     step, so you will not have a dextrin-rich wort.
     
     Not only does this make sense on paper (or screen), but I use a 
     similar mash schedule to produce dry beers.  You can rest at 130F and 
     get some starch conversion, but not a lot.  If you are really paranoid 
     about degrading proteins and starches without wanting to, rest the 
     main mash at ~100F (39C).  The proteases and amylases won't work too 
     quickly then, although you'll probably have to add heat in some way to 
     get the mash to the next step (if it's to far above 100F, you'd need a 
     ridiculously large decoct to hit it).
     
     Have fun!
     
     George De Piro  (Nyack, NY)

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Date: Mon, 28 Apr 97 14:56:14  EDT 
From: "Ellery.Samuels" <esamuel at mvsb.nycenet.edu>
Subject: Flat Beer

I recently made an IPA using extract with specialty grains.  Followed
procedure that I've successfully used for 8 other batches.  This time the beer
came out flat (minimal carbonation) and there was NO head in glass when pored.
Any suggestions as to what happened?  The beer has been in the bottle for wo
weeks now and I plan on leaving a while longer to see if there is some
improvement. Do you think that will help?

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Date: Mon, 28 Apr 97 11:48 PDT
From: cburns at egusd.k12.ca.us (Charles Burns)
Subject: The last experiment - double decocted PORTER!

I just had to try it. So, I added a couple of pounds of munich to my normal 
porter recipe, rested it at 145F (dropped to 140F after 30 minutes), 
immediately pulled 1/3 to the kettle, added 2 quarts of water, brought to 
158F for 15 minutes, boiled it for 15 minutes, then back to the rest mash. I 
overshot the temp up to 165F and instantly tossed in a quart of cold water. 
Bam, temp down to 150F. I quickly boiled a gallon and dumped it in. Raised 
in only to 154F. Pulled a gallon of mash, boiled it and returned it to the 
mash and finally got to 160F. Left it there for an hour. Exhausted.

This is the last decoction on purpose that I do until I get better 
equipment. It should be a nice robust porter, IF it has any body left. 
George thinks it might not since it spent so much time at low temps 
(140-150F). We'll know in a couple of weeks boys and girls.

Charley (giving up decoction for now) in N. Calif.


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Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 15:04:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: Nymwegen at aol.com
Subject: Yeast Culturing

I'm planning to start culturing my own pure yeast strains and would
appreciate any sharing of step-by-step procedures from those who are already
doing this.  I've purchased the sterile test tubes for the slants, a 500ml
flask, petri dishes, the agar and yeast nutriet, etc. and read a basic primer
on the subject.  I have a Yeast Lab Australian Ale strain that I was going to
experiment with (it expired in Feb 97 and I got it cheap - read free - from
the brew supply house where I sometimes work).  I had planned to use my
canning pressure cooker for this and have already made up a batch of sterile
wort in quart and 1/2 pint jars.  I have some 190 proof grain alcohol for
sanitizing as well.  The book I read on the subject doesn't mention the use
of petri dishes - are these unnecessary or are they an alternative to the
test tube slants?  Also the petri dishes are plastic and although the
William's Brewing catalog said they were sterile I seriously doubt that they
are as they came in one plastic bag rather than being individually packaged
like the test tubes.   My question on the plastic petri dishes is whether
anyone knows if they can be sterilized in the pressure cooker (250 F) or will
they melt?   I do not intend to resterilize the test tubes in the pressure
cooker as they are also plastic.  Any tips or advice would be appreciated.  

Thanks in advance - Nymwegen

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Date: Mon, 28 Apr 97 14:19:09 CDT
From: jwilkins at imtn.tpd.dsccc.com (John Wilkinson)
Subject: SNPA attempt

My nephew is a lover of Sierra Nevada Pale Ale and I like it myself.  I told
him I would attempt a batch of that type.  Does anyone have any suggestions
as to malts, hops, and hopping schedules?  I assume the hops would be Cascade,
at least for flavor and aroma but what about the rest?  I brew all grain, by
the way.  I have plenty of Cascade, Columbus, and I think Williamette on hand.
The Williamette I have had a while but it is in the freezer in what is supposed
to be an air tight bag.  I am currently growing some Wyeast 1056 yeast for the
batch.  I have various grains in stock but can always pick up anything I don't
have if needed.  I suppose American grains would be appropriate but 2 row
or 6 row?

Thanks for any help,

John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas - imtn.dsccc.com

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Date: Mon, 28 Apr 97 7:48:20 EDT
From: "Ted Hull" <THull at brwncald.com>
Subject: re: beer taxes

Thanks to Raymond Estrella for his post. My apologies to those 
not participating from the USA.

One additional comment:  Is there any way of ensuring that a tax 
reduction would be passed on to consumers rather than stay in 
the pockets of breweries, *distributors*, etc.? When the airline 
ticket tax wasn't renewed, prices didn't drop with the 10% tax 
temporarily gone. And an unrelated analogy is that Ticketmaster 
continues to determine service charges based on what the market 
will bear. If we already pay the higher price for beer, who's to 
say we won't continue to do so?

Ted Hull
Atlanta, GA

Just so you know, the views expressed here are not those of my 
employer.

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Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 16:30:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: "R. Shreve" <rashreve at interpath.com>
Subject: San Diego Beer/Corny Keg Manufacturers

I will be making a trip to San Diego next month, my first trip to the west
coast.
Can anyone recommend any "not to be missed" brewpubs, etc. in the San Diego
area?

Does anyone have a name and phone number for a manufacturer of corny kegs?
I'm interested in getting a price for a custom-made size (if that's possible).

Thanks!

Randy Shreve
Salisbury, North Carolina


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Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 15:33:27 -0700
From: Dean Larson <Dean.Larson at gonzaga.edu>
Subject: Wyeast 1056 in barleywines

Mark asks:

>I've got a batch of American Amber Ale in the primary now, it's real
>hoppy & looking pretty good. I used Wyeast 1056 in it. I was planning on
>putting a batch of porter onto the yeast from it when I move it into the
>secondary this weekend. Now I'm thinking about turning the porter into a
>barleywine. I haven't done a barleywine yet. I'm wondering if 1056 is a
good >choice to stand up to the high alcohol of the barleywine. If it's not
a good >choice, what would you suggest? Thanks in advance,


I've done two barleywines in which I've pitched with about 1 cup of slurry
from the primary of a batch fermented with Wyeast 1056.  Both turned out
fine.  One had OG of 1.095 and FG 1.025, the other OG 1.100 and FG 1.028.
Both fermentations went well.  My experience is that 1056 makes a fine
barleywine.

Skol,
Dean Larson
Spokane, WA


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Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 19:21:35 -0700
From: "Kelly C. Heflin" <kheflin at monmouth.com>
Subject: Lagering Temperatures

Just wondering what the opinion is for a good
lagering temperature. My fermenter stops 
bubbling not long after putting it in the fridge.
The highest temp I can get is about 45 deg. Is this
too cold for the second day of fermentation, I usually
go the first day at normal room temp. Eventually ending
up at about 34 deg. for the last 4 weeks.

Oh, and is the fact that the airlock is not bubling, mean
that the yeast have gone dormant. Or are they still
working. and what effect will warming it up to 50 deg. 
and giving it a shake to help it start again have.

thanks
kelly
- -- 
Kelly C. Heflin
Kheflin at monmouth.com
- -- 
Kelly C. Heflin
Kheflin at monmouth.com

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Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 10:08:47 +0930
From: Marshall Muller <Marshall.Muller at dsto.defence.gov.au>
Subject: Info on Coopers Sparkling Ale brewing process

Fellow Brewers,

In a recent newsletter,  Dr Tim Cooper (Brewer and Operations Manager) 
from Coopers Brewery (Adelaide) wrote an article on Coopers Pale Ale 
with some references to Coopers Sparkling Ale. Anyway it contained some 
details which I found interesting and I thought I'd share them with you.

Here are some quotes from the article:

Pale Ale is an entirely naturally fermented beer brewed the same way 
as our famous red label Sparkling Ale.

Coopers Pale Ale is a very estery and fruity beer (with characteristics 
of apples, pears and bananas) with a nice dash of hoppy acidity and 
dryness in the finish. (finishing gravity of 1.1-1.3 degrees P and a 
bitterness of 24-25 BU) The classic Coopers Sparkling Ale has the same 
characteristics but with greater intensity.

Coopers ales and stouts are fermented with a top fermenting yeast.

The fermenation is now in cylindroconical vessels, after which the brew 
is clarified.  A controlled portion of the fermenting beer that has not 
been clarified is added, along with sugar, prior to bottling or kegging,
to promote the secondary fermenation.

Ales undergo warm-conditioning in bottles and kegs for 4-6 weeks before 
they are released. Some consumers cellar the ales for up to 2 years.

>From 120 years, Sparkling Ale has been brewed by Coopers using the 
500 year old 'Burton-on-Trent' method, which was instituted by Coopers 
shortly after the brewery was founded in 1862.

The Ale yeast is particularly unusual being a mixture of two yeast types 
which must be maintained in a fine balance. This is necessary because the 
yeast does not focculate (clump together and settle on the bottom).  It 
remains in suspension and is thus called powdery.


Marshall

Adelaide, AUSTRALIA

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